/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

what the actual fuck?

>atheist conventions
You say that like there was something TO ruin. But yes, most people who take pictures of themselves with signs like that (see: 90% of Tumblr's "feminists") have a warped view of feminism, and honestly, conventions are not the place for any sort of ideological campaigning.

You sound like a butthurt male.

I think it's good to raise awareness of harassment that goes on at all cons. It's insane. When i was 17, never had this problem, now 10 years later, i see it happen a lot. At Katsucon, coming back from a late night panel with my friends, a drunk guy randomly came up to my friend and leaned on her shoulder and was talking shit. I was like "Do you know this guy?" and she was like "No! I dont!" And a bit freaked out. I was so disgusted by how many men just come up to you no matter what you're wearing. She was in a fucking labcoat and pants. I was in a jacket and jeans.

>be semi naked in public
> be mad when you get sexual attention

yup seems about right

>>6745084
Oh no, some drunk guy talked to your friend who happened to be a girl. Quick, call the police.

Try this: if your friend was a guy, would you feel any different?

And you've just admitted "no matter what you're wearing." So this isn't even a con specific issue.

>>6745088
Doesn't matter what you're wearing. I dont like seeing half naked girls at cons either, still doesn't give any guy the right to approach you and sexually harass you. Please go away

Doesn't bother me.

inb4 janitor deletes thread.

Wait, consent to what?
Because yes, dressing in a revealing outfit in public does = consent to look at the bits you are showing off. Don't do it if this bothers you.

If women are getting groped or something at cons, that would be uncool and I would encourage said gropees and their friends to blacklist said gropers from room parties, hotel groups, etc. Report them to staff, or smack 'em one if they go too far. That should go for either gender.

But... um... maybe people who are attention whores should look at the shape of their attention whore cake, and make sure they aren't cutting slices out of it if you know what I mean. If you are using your body to try to get validation for being attractive instead of developing social skills or useful talents- well, you can't bitch too hard if the attention doesn't take the shape you want it to- if your entire life revolves around strangers wanting to bang you, you can't really be surprised when some of those people are awkward or unattractive, especially in a community like these.

>>6745077
You're not the aggrieved party. You can complain all you want, but until it's thoroughly understood and the problem starts going away, this has to go on.

Though I will say: I love when butthurt stand-by-the-status-quo people complain about this stuff. As though social progress was just TOO ANNOYING to be justified in any way.

>feminism
>/cgl/, which is second only to /co/ as "Most /tumblr/ Board"

Congratulations, you have all the ingredients for a perfect shitstorm. If I were you, I'd delete this thread before it reaches that point.

>>6745093
oh do return to tumblr

if the guy hittin on them was hot it would be flattering

if the guy hitting on them is a fat slob then it is sexual harassment

>>6745088
Since when does nudity imply that you want sexual harassment?

Look out folks, better start touchin' babies. They're naked! It means they want the sex!

>>6745093
>>6745092
Since when does talking to someone = sexual harassment? Today some guy talked to me about the book I was reading on the bus. He wanted to get to know me, probably for dating or sex purposes. This happens. I did not want to bang him because I am in a relationship, and he wasn't particularly attractive. This does not make it sexual harassment, and even if he was awkward or rude, it would not.

Rudeness = lame, but it doesn't equal harassment. Awkwardness is sad, but again, it's not harassing.

Do these people not go to bars? Because I'm not even good looking and some drunk dude always shows up and is like "Hey, did you know you have a nice ass?" or some shit. And I'm like "Thanks, but I'm here with my (whoever I'm here with) and am not interested, sorry."

And they go away.

>>6745077
You sound as if you being bothered by feminism is as bad as women getting harassed

It's not

>>6745102
Again, if you're being sexually harassed, go to the police. Why does it have to be specifically convention organizers that have to be responsible?

And you're using a very watered down form of the "check your privilege" argument combined with an ad hominem attack.

>>6745106
>>6745106
Considering your low level of intelligence, I completely understand how you can relate dressing in a revealing, sexy way to a random baby being naked because they're a baby. Next time, however, you might want to think a little bit before you start typing. Who knows, maybe one day you'll gain some insight into your own stupidity.

>>6745114
So the community shouldn't be responsible for creating a safe environment, only the police? That's extremely poor citizenship.

the police are not always willing or available

prevention is better than cure

>>6745122
Agreed.

>>6745121
It depends on how "safe" you want it. You can create a completely sterilized environment if you want but at the expense of everyone else's freedom. You can say that someone else's right to free speech ends when you're starting to be offended by their dissenting opinion but does it make it right?

Asides from that, my primary point is that the community does not bear responsibility. Individuals are only responsible for their own behavior. You can say that is bad citizenship but if we want to go your route, google "Adria Richards."

>>6745114
Why wouldn't the organizers want to?

>>6745105
I'm not going to cons to look for guys or one nighters or whatever.. I dont care how hot a guy is, i dont cosplay to be hit on. Not all girls want to be hit on when they cosplay.

Oh look another stupid thread where the OP acts like he doesn't know how society works.

>>6745121
>So the community shouldn't be responsible for creating a safe environment

it is a safe environment like typical hysterical "activists" this is about absolutely nothing

If your boobs are out and you are in public you are going to get looked at PERIOD

If you are an attractive person and you are wearing skin tight spandex in public, people will hit on you PERIOD

This is about preventing sexual harassment at a con. It happens a lot due to costumes. Some people think that it's totally fine to make rude/inappropriate/uncomfortably sexual comments/passes at people just because of their costume. This is about saying "hey, yeah, I know I'm dressed sexy but I'm here to enjoy the con just as you are. please respect that". Not many people want someone to constantly harass them at a con to fuck them. It isn't allowed in the regular world and shouldn't be tolerated at cons. This isn't about a cure, as someone else said. It's about prevention so no one even has to deal with unwanted harassment.

>>6745126
Things are FAR from "sterile", buddy. We can go a lot of steps towards "safe" before we reach "sterile"

>>6745126
Slippery slope. No one's talking about removing freedoms. They ARE talking about creating an understanding that just because someone is dressing in a skimpy or provocative way, they are not consenting, nor are they "asking for it".

The community is made up of individuals and therefore bears a gestalt responsibility to care for each other. That's the basic node of having a society or a culture. While we recognize the need for the individual to be responsible, we must ALSO assert that said individual is responsible to others, and thereby the whole community is responsible to itself and its members.

Things like this are necessarily complex. They don't have an either/or proposition attached. You can have both individual responsibility and community safety. They're not exclusive.

>B-but I'm only wearing this for myself because I like it! Don't look at me you filthy men, this skimpy costume is for me and myself only!

My only problem with this project is the whole publicly shaming the 'creepers'. You should educate people not have a witch hunt. Also I have cosplay friends who still have that high school mentality of "zomg a boi talked to me he like sooooo wants me." Sometimes people are awkward especially nerds so what might seem creepy to some is actually someone really trying their best to be social. Now obviously the people being groping otherd shouldn't be excused but I can't help but think that anyone doing that wouldn't have the shame in the first place to care that they were publicly called out.

>>6745130
To what extent do convention organizers go to police people's behavior? Yes they can set the environment like a "family setting." But do they have to really crack down like a SWAT team? What rules do you have to put that aren't already on the lawbooks?

Guys are going to be guys and while it is inexcusable to actually do real sexual harassment, in the article, cosplayers complain about people taking photos without their consent and treat that as sexual harassment. So, again, how should the convention organizers treat this?

Honestly, I would think a good compromise is just to put a warning in the convention handbook that says "If you think you're sexually harassed, file a report to the police. " and give a freakin phone number and a station.

Guy it's just a stupid troll thread. He's getting more and more ridiculous as he goes on.

Let's not fag up our conventions with thought policing policies.

If someone harrasses you, deal with that person individually.

Leave the rest of the convention going public out of your schemes and social manipulation.

I know most cosplaying females come from an asberger social awkward background, but goddamned learn to both take a comment here and there, and/or stand up for yourselves without trying to force societal or policy change just because things don't go as planned all the time.

>>6745131
>i dont cosplay to be hit on. Not all girls want to be hit on when they cosplay.

then cosplay at home
PROTIP: men and women hit on each other all the time
you do not have a right to not be offended

>>6745135
You should be able to walk around god damned naked and have no one touch you. As we've developed a more complex social philosophy in the last FEW THOUSAND YEARS, we've also risen above being compelled by something due to normalcy or instinct.

Harassment and leering shouldn't be acceptable. Yes, you will get looked at. That's definitely on the shoulders of the cosplayer. But it shouldn't go beyond looking. And photography isn't the same as looking. Just as a person has the right to not be photographed *at all*, they also have the right not to be photographed from a lewd or leering angle. The community should support that right.

>>6745144
>You do not have the right to be not offended.
Logically this means you can be offended and must be offended all the time.

>>6745130
Part of the problem is how can you tell, at a glance, what's harrassment and what's consensual dumbfuckery without banning it all?

I got in trouble at a recent con for "violence" for having an impromptu boffer fight with someone using our props. The staffer came into the hallway at the wrong moment, basically. We were just dicking around and we almost got our props confiscated.

I'd be okay with people who get reported for this shit get into trouble or asked to leave. But going up to anyone who touches anyone at a con is a bit excessive. The best system is still the buddy system- don't stay with or party with anyone who hasn't been vetted by someone you trust. Same as in the kink community.

>>6745143
>If you think you're sexually harassed, file a report to the police

sexual harassment is civil matter not criminal the police will do nothing unless you are actually assaulted or threatened with harm

>>6745143
> Guys are going to be guys
Shut up. Shut the fuck up right now. This argument is ridiculous. Saying that assumes that males have zero control over themselves and that they're incapable of self control. "Guys will be guys" implies that harassment is totally fine based on gender alone. That is a bullshit argument and is offensive to males as well as females.

>>6745146
>Just as a person has the right to not be photographed *at all*

not in public they don't

>>6745151
How about you fucking read?

"
Guys are going to be guys and while it is inexcusable to actually do real sexual harassment, in the article, cosplayers complain about people taking photos without their consent and treat that as sexual harassment. So, again, how should the convention organizers treat this?"

>>6745137
Google "adria richards"

To take a page from Kant, each person is their own rational agent. If you start attaching the greater good to it, then you remove the rational part because you are limiting his ability to use his own reason for his own sake. Can an individual consider the greater good in his decision making? Yes. Ought he? You can say yes. But can you say he must? No.

The reason why I say this and to google "adria richards" is because some woman thought it was a good idea to tweet out a picture of some guys making "dongle jokes" and paint herself as Joan of Arc. And she cried that it was sexual harassment. In the end, she and one of them got fired over it. Over a freakin joke. That was the result of her taking action and responsibility.

>>6745150

No it just means that you can't ban offensive things.

Because if you go down that slippery slope, cons will instead ban the SOURCE of the offense, which is costumes which show too much skin.

You will screw yourselves over, because conventions know they have no way of actually policing behavior, but they can easily police costumes.

>>6745153
>sexual harassment
Wrong
https://www.msu.edu/~wrc/sh/shfaq.htm?site=

>>6745146
Ever hear of security cameras?
What if I take a photo and you are in the background bending over to look at something in a vendor stall or something?

Maybe try TALKING to people about their inappropriate behavior and TELLING them it's not appropriate before deciding to start a crusade to get everyone thrown out of cons?

>>6745150
Wrong. It is not a must.

eg. If I were to say I don't like the way you think and I am offended by it, should you be silenced?

>>6745158

This.

By trying to force change with Feminism, Femnist will actually end up screwing over female cosplayers in the long run.

You heard it here first.

>>6745155
I would be willing to bet that 99% of cons include a waiver on their tickets that say by attending the con you consent to photographs.

>>6745157
I did read and I'm saying that the argument is fucking stupid. By using the rhetoric of "guys will be guys", you're excusing behavior on a basis of gender. Also, taking a photo of someone without their permission is rude, creepy and extremely bad con etiquette. We have threads all the time that say "don't take someone's picture without their permission". Is it that difficult of a concept to understand? Saying that some behaviors are excusable because of gender when in reality, no one in society would accept it, is absolutely ridiculous and causes more problems than solutions.

>>6745163
>>Maybe try TALKING to people about their inappropriate behavior and TELLING them it's not appropriate before deciding to start a crusade to get everyone thrown out of cons?

THIS

>>6745160
>https://www.msu.edu/~wrc/sh/shfaq.htm?site=

Idiot
>Those behaviors may include criminal sexual conduct, assault, attempted assault, and behaviors that meet the legal definition of criminal stalking.

saying NICE TITS EMMA FROST is sexual harassment but not criminal

police will and can not legally do anything if a guy says " hey I'd love to bang you" not a single damn thing

>>6745158
>You don't have the right
negation you have the right
>to be not offended.
negation person's state: offended.
It makes no sense.

>>6745158
I would be okay with this 100%.
It might force people to work to win cosplay contests instead of relying on tits alone.

>>6745169
Again, that's not my fucking point. Read again. Do I have to restate my argument for you?
"Guys are going to be guys and while it is inexcusable to actually do real sexual harassment, "
" it is inexcusable to actually do real sexual harassment, "

Holy shit how do you miss those words that come RIGHT AFTER?

Oh yeah, now I remember why I don't want to cross the pond and attend a US convention. Though no doubt this sort of crap is spreading the other way, fortunately I avoid official con forums and just go to enjoy myself

How would you men feel if some fat gay guy or hambeast started groping you because they thought you here hot?

Would you do nothing except go to the police?

>>6745172
Um... If someone comes up to me and says "Hey, I'd love to bang you" I don't feel unsafe. I thought the point of sexual harassment is that it's implying a threat?

"Hey, I'd love to bang you" is actually kind of refreshing because then I know where I stand, and by my reply of "Why yes, I would like to bang you" or "Not interested." he knows where I stand and then we can both move on with our lives.

"COSPLAY".

>>6745182
Why the fuck would go to a stupid anime con in the another country in the first place?

"look but dont touch"

is that so hard?

>>6745167
No, that's actually completely different. They do not. They just have waivers that say that they can kick you out if you do not follow the code of conduct. I haven't seen a code of conduct that says that you automatically agree to be photographed.

You can look up laws on photographing in public places because those laws would apply at conventions as well.

>>6745084
The problem the people who look at these photos or read the articles and go "Yeah that's a great point!" the most likely the type of people who WON'T be harassing others at cons. This whole thing is preaching to the choir

>>6745191
I think everyone agrees with the don't touch part.
The problem is either trying to police that on a non case by case basis or people who think that awkward flirting is the same as harassment, and trying to police THAT.

>>6745185

I'd slap them, and get security.

Why would I try to make every man feel like a criminal for the act of a few?

>>6745136
Maybe you could prevent it by not dressing like a slut.

>>6745191

>>6745232
Are you incapable of acting like a sane human being?
Women have to dress "right" for you to act like a rational human being? How about you stop being an insufferable pig and let the women do what they want?

>>6745250
As a male, I'm absolutely offended that I get the police called on me every time I try to shop for groceries in a banana hammock.

What on earth is society coming to these days?

>>6745250
Someone needs to go back to tumblr

>>6745256

>>6745256

hear hear, brother.

/thread

I was at a convention and two men behind me were talking about a lightsaber but they were comparing it to their phallus! I reported them to con security

>>6745185
Have you read "Weaboo horror story"? Half of them are girls that are hambeast hitting on a guy or girl because "they're hot/yaoi/yuri/kawaii/ect".

>>6745105
Uh, no.
I've had many 'attractive' guys harass me, it's still harassment and fucking creepy as shit.
I don't care if you're the sexiest man on earth, walking up to me and saying "I'd fuck you" or slapping my ass instantly makes you a creep to me.
Also, you don't see me going up to every man in a cosplay without a shirt on and feeling his pecs, whispering sexual words in his ear and giving him looks from across the room. While certain guys might like that, not all do. Why? Because it's fucking creepy.