/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

I'm totally fine with paying for a dress from a new indie brand so long as there is an established way of contacting the owner that looks updated regularly. If I like the print and all relevant information has been given (stock pictures, detail pictures, price, (or reserve info/timeline) etc) then I'm willing to pay a fair price 50-75% above estimated material cost.

Depends on the brand you're talking about. There are indie brands who really strive for good quality, and others that just don't quite make it up there. There are some awesome seamstresses and designers out there.

I get items (new prints or solids) from a new vendor if their work looks great on the picture. If it's something I have to use an SS for, then I ask my SS to get me details of the item.

For the stuff I'm getting (mostly Korean indie brands), the prices are already below brand and the quality is (mostly) great. Would gladly pay the price again for the same (or better) quality garments.

sauce on OP's pic?

>>6477222
Boku no Pico

>>6477222
Kuragehime manga.

>>6477185
Honestly I think it's ridiculous for indie brands to charge as much as brand, or even, let's say, $175 for a jsk.
They're some random person making clothes, and without the brand/status/whatever the fuck else, your clothes are pretty much on par with bodyline to me until I actually try out your wares. It's a hit or miss, I don't know you. I probably can't find many reviews online.
And even then, your time is not worth $40/hour, no matter how many tears, how much blood, sweat, or feces you put into that dress. It's just not. Build up a fan-base first.

>yes I'm a cunt

>>6477249
>yes I'm a cunt
All that means is that you are female.

>>6477254
No, then I would have said
>I have a cunt

When I'm looking to buy indie brand, it doesn't have to have a full storefront either in real life or on etsy or wherever. I've bought from a few indie makers who just sell through the comm sales without storefronts. As long as they seem to have proven quality in their garments- that means they have a history of good reviews or feedback that prove they make quality, fully finished garments with good fabric choices and good fitting. However sometimes if I like a design enough, I'll take a risk on an indie seller who I don't know much about, especially if it seems they've been selling a lot locally already and the price is good, on par with taobao prices at least.

As for design I don't really like prints as a whole and wear classic mostly, so I look for interesting solid or floral designs that are more than just 'hurdur knockoff of the same old classic MM OP or tiered ruffle skirt', but also that don't rely on plain bodice design + plain rectangle skirt with a print = ~indie burando~

Basically I'll take a chance if you seem good, and I like things I haven't seen before, but that also doesn't mean just prints I haven't seen before. But I won't really shell out unless you've already made a name for yourself.

>>6477232
Kuragehime, chapter 53 tomorrow world

>>6477194
>>6477195
>>6477268
Do any of you have a favorite indie brand, best quality, worst quality? Country of origin?

I know Korean indie brands and Chinese indie brands are consistent in their quality for the most part, but what about the US and Australian and European brands?

Do not understand everyone saying "Korean brand" is good quality when I can only assume they're talking about Baroque. Her last run had TONS of issues
http://egl.livejournal.com/18753002.html

And the runs before it were also terrible. Aster Cafe had issues, refunds, missing orders, running fabric. People just keep giving her money. WHY. Nice prints? Okay but not worth gambling $200+ for the headache this girl went through

>>6477249
>$175 for a jsk
>your time is not worth $40/hour

Do you think it takes only like 2hrs to put together a dress or something? Honestly, brand should be cheaper than indie shit because they have access to mass-production and bulk prices for materials.

>>6477249
I agree with this. I wouldn't pay more than $120 for an indie dress when I can get a second-hand brand one for $150.

>>6477337
Sure, but people buy it because it's brand.
It's like that in every other fashion.

I really don't think indie designers should be charging more than brand prices for their dresses and skirts.

Yes, I understand the concept that you're trying to "pay yourself" per hour.
Yes, I understand that more than a few hours went into making a dress.

But you know something? If your dress or skirt or whatever still looks the same as any storebought piece I could find at the mall, then all of your 'hard work' doesn't account for much in anyone's eyes.
Nobody is going to look at the dress I buy from you and see your 'hard work' and intention. They're going to see a dress, and if it's amateur seamstressing they're going to laugh and probably judge if I tell them I paid over $150 for it.
However, if it were super detailed and the materials were actually high-quality, that would be a different story.

Brands as other people have said, can get away with selling their mass-produced, Chinese factory shit for $300 because they've worked up a name for themselves. Girls will rabidly buy like crazy from them.

>>6477337
But it's more expensive because it's built a long-term reputation, with certain standards of quality and also a large resale market, which make purchasing it a much safer use of money. And, of course, there's the significance of brand-status. While what you're saying does seem intuitive, desirability and cost within the fashion world is a lot more complex than simple production costs.

>>6477383
>>6477364

No shit, but I don't know why you should be expecting someone doing small quantity production to give you the same quality for less money. Why are you expecting to pay mass-production prices for couture garments?

>>6477407
They just told you why.

>>6477407
>>6477410
Plus, there are often vital design/construction errors.
And if there's no print, there's nothing to distract you from how wonky it looks.

>>6477410

Yes they told me that they're fucking cheap and expect someone whose production costs are much higher, to give them comparable or higher quality products for cheaper than mass produced shit which is mostly only valuable for the brand name. Your ideas of what's "fair" are deeply fucked up. It's not wonder most indie brands are shit, in order to even break even you have to cut corners everywhere because you people are barely willing to pay what the materials alone would cost for shit.

>>6477422
Holy butthurt failing indie brand, batman.
It's just fucking reality. Deal.

>>6477421

Yeah, because they know no one's willing to pay for quality construction or printing. Even if an indie designer had an impeccably constructed garment made out of the highest quality materials, no one would be willing to pay more than brand. It's fucking stupid and insulting. Though I know fundamentally it's less that you're willing to pay more for a brand name and more that you don't want that brand to lose prestige by not being the top of the top in price as a status symbol.

>>6477423

Nope, I don't have a horse in this race. People like you just disgust me.

What's with all the indie hate in this thread? They are acting like every indie brand is cheap badly-sewn shit.

Anyways, yeah I flinch at the price but I get it, it's custom fabric, usually only one or two people making the dresses an the details are a pain to make especially when not buying in bulk.

Plus Indie brands have way more interesting prints than the big companies. I love it when they release quirky prints like the jellyfish one, skeleton horses, etc. With brand it's just; oh look, more candy/cute animals/royal motifs

>>6477422
When you talk about indie brands being shit, do you mean material quality or construction?

I don't buy from anywhere until I see reviews. I'm not blowing that much money on a shot in the dark.

>>6477422
You're mad, I get that - but you need to calm down, because you're misinterpreting what others are saying.

First off, I (>>6477383) did not say anything about what I personally "expect" seamstresses to work for, or what I think is fair. What I explained was how masses, in general, spend their money - they are willing to spend more on a more well-know product, because there is an assumption that if something is well-known, the quality and the company itself is more trustworthy. This is why, in general, buyers are more likely to put forward more money for an already-established product: it's largely about trust and safety. This is because they don't KNOW if an indie brand actually provides "comparable or higher quality products" than a brand: the unknown is unnerving, so people generally with still with the safer route of an already-accepted brand.

People aren't just buying your hours-worked - and hourly-wage is an entirely artificial construction. I know it sucks to be out there and to barely get by when you put in a lot of effort, but that's the case with all businesses: You're usually in the red for a LONG time before you build a reputation, and then after you've proven yourself and gained customers' trust, you get to finally reap the benefits of your invested time and money. It's not about what's "fair," it's about what a small business has to do to survive in a competitive marketplace.

>>6477444

jellyfish? skeleton horses what now?

the only indie brands i know of are the korean and taobao ones/lady sloth/dolldelight

>>6477444
>Plus Indie brands have way more interesting prints than the big companies.With brand it's just; oh look, more candy/cute animals/royal motifs

But brands are looking to make a profit and sell items. So what has sold in the past certainly sells now. While with indie brands they print more on a on demand or not at all. For most it seems more akin to a hobby than a profitable/actual moving into the fray of garment making and selling.

For indie brands dead stock doesn't really exist since there are few pieces being sold made to order (including fabric ordering). While if a brand messes up there are so many variables in how much money they loss.

Assuming similar quality, I think it's entirely fair for an indie garment to cost the same as brand, because, as another anon said, the cost of materials is significantly higher. The main issue with indie stuff is there's much less in the way of quality assurance than with brand. Unless you're already familiar with the brand, it's a gamble whether you're going to get a nice garment or a sloppy mess, and I can see some people not wanting to take the chance.
Of course, there's also the subset of the community who only care about brand names as a status symbol, but I think those people should honestly just be ignored.

>>6477456
I hate to sound like an idiot, but I have two questions:
1) How much are the materials actually costing?
I figure $35x3 yards, plus $20 for lace, then $20x2 hours worked. So round up to $175, which I think would be a reasonable price especially for a non-print JSK. But then again, that's $10/hour above minimum wage so I'd say that's fair (for the consumer.)
I'm not familiar with the whole process is this even close to a fair assumption?

2) Don't most seamstresses have "main" jobs, especially if they are running a tiny indie brand?
I always assumed that most people have main jobs to support their hobbies/side businesses.

>>6477472
>2 hours worked

I think that's a bit unrealistic unless we're talking about a simple skirt. And yeah most people have to have a second job/treat it like a hobby because realistically, the prices people are willing to pay (derived almost entirely from some skewed perceptions of the costs of things) aren't even close to what they'd need to be for even a one-person enterprise to survive off of.

>>6477456

The safety/reputation thing is a fair point. But,

>It's not about what's "fair," it's about what a small business has to do to survive in a competitive marketplace.

What's "fair" is relevant. The consumer base has a really fucked up idea of what things cost to make. A small business isn't going to be competitive with a large manufacturer. It's just ludicrous to think that the mom-and-pop store down the street will be able to or even should be able to compete with Walmart. It may be reality but it's still incredibly fucked up.

>>6477472
make that 2hrs into 4hrs unless it is a ridiculously simply design.

>>6477472
I see you've been watching my show. I highly recommend rewatching the parts where the contestants have to sew the models into unfinished, unlined dresses that are never meant to be worn again and sometimes fall apart before they're off the runway.

And custom fabric is more like $15-20/yd for a basic cotton

>>6477485
That's why I asked, I have no idea.
So, I'm buying some clothes from Boguta, Magic Tea Party, Kidsyoyo and a few more. Boguta, for example, has a beautiful dress for like $70, not including fees and shipping of course.
I know everything is cheaper to make in China, but how can they keep in business? They can't be making much of a wage at all.
Anyway, going to sleep now. I'd really appreciate a reply - I'll read it tomorrow.
Thanks!

>>6477506
How about a really simple JSK, with a few pintucks in the bodice and a simple frill on the hem? So bump that to about $215-$225?
I'd definitely pay that if it was perfectly constructed. But I buy second-hand brand, I don't really care about the name, or what's popular at the time so it works for me.

>>6477515
Who....what?

>>6477428
Can you give me any examples where this has ever occurred. no, really, I want to know where these mythical indie brands are that have excellent construct, high quality materials, and brilliant design.

>>6477472

A fairly normal dress will take at least 4 hours, not including time spent drafting the pattern, cutting the fabric, or taking care of hand-sewn details at the end (hooks & eyes, tacking the bottom of the zipper, buttons, etc). Add an extra hour or so if there are numerous ruffles or a lot of gathering.

>>6477519
They're not. Have you honestly never heard why everything's cheaper to make in china?

Ok. I've worked in the fashion industry and also follow Lolita. I'm not going to argue what the best price is or is not, especially since most Lolita designers don't have professional training, but maybe someone will find this enlightening.

In the American fashion industry, production seamstresses (in house or contracted) for indie label goods are usually paid by the garment: around $50 for a cocktail or bridesmaid dress, so we'll say that's probably a good estimate for a Lolita dress, too. It should be understood that for many dresses you will end up putting in more than 5 hours, when you count hand-sewing and the complexity of certain dresses. But at least in production sewing, someone else designed the garment, someone else is paid to do the pattern, and a lot of times, someone else cuts the fabric, too, and you're just given a bundle of materials (fabric + lining + interfacing + boning + thread + zipper + other notions) and told to put it together.
Most Lolita designers just eat the cost of their time when it comes to pattern drafting, which can be a bitch for complex bodices or things like blouses. (There's a reason why pattern making is is one of the better paid jobs in the fashion industry.) They also typically forget to count in the cost of thread, or other notions, or the cost of shipping when ordering fabric.
Add in that high quality cotton fabric is $10-15/yard, or $20-30/yard for the nicer custom printed fabrics, and the costs add up quickly.

>>6477526

It hasn't because no one's dumb enough to try something like that. Why would anyone offer anything like that knowing full well not a damn person who buys this shit would go for it over a brand dress.

>>6477556
people are saying here that people are always lowballing indie brands and it's not fair because they are worth more.

But... no indie brands produce garments which are comparable to brand, much less garments which are better than brand.

And no indie brands have appeared which have excellent construction, design, and quality to prove your point. The only examples we have are indie brands with questionable quality which fail, in some cases, because people won't pay brand (or in some cases, excess of brand) prices.

>>6477551
I will add that as a contract seamstress, I could sometimes whip out 1-2 dresses in a day, but things normally averaged out to 3-4 dresses per week, since I primarily worked with silk and I was responsible for roughly half of the cutting. So, I made $150-$200/week for 30~35 hours/week of just cutting & sewing, no design or pattern work. When you work it out, that's $5-6/hour.

>>6477562
Let's see... This pic is indie brand/handmade. I'll dig out more.

>>6477573
>>6477562

>>6477562
>>6477574

Custom print

>>6477578
print detail in the milk tea colorway, because damn that girl is a fabulous artist.

>>6477562

Also indie brand

>>6477562

same indie brand as >>6477581

>>6477573
That may be handmade but it was for the seamstress herself.

Not saying this applies to that seamstress in particular, but one of the reasons I don't trust items made by and for the seamstress as examples of work is that if course they're going to make their own stuff nicely, the question is how is their quality for their clients.

You can't necessarily take sample items as examples of work in general because stock photo samples are not necessarily what you're going to end up with when a new brand hasn't proven itself already- that's when item reviews are more important.

>>6477562

Some baroquepetrock

>>6477586
>>6477562

One more baroquepetrock

>>6477573
>>6477574
>>6477578
>>6477580
>>6477581
>>6477582
>>6477586
>>6477587
>indie brand

Handmade =/= indie brand.

>>6477583
Like how legsdiamond makes nice stuff for herself but sends her customers poorly made shit. When she bothers to send them their items, anyway.

>>6477582
who made these? I really like them!

>>6477578
I want to like this print. I really do.
I think as far as distribution and execution this designer did really well.

But I can't get past the fact that I think it looks so. fucking. ugly.
I would almost say tacky, honestly. The stripes reminds me of curtains.

>>6477593

Funny, basically all of those are actual indie brands. Princess Pearl, il Sangue and Rouge Aerie were all in the boutique at Frill, and even Baroquepetrock has gone professional and done some limited runs on custom printed dresses lately.

>>6477562
>people are saying here that people are always lowballing indie brands and it's not fair because they are worth more.

That's not really what I've been saying. People in this thread and in the lolita-sphere in general have a warped sense of what things should cost. No quality seamstress is going to try to get into this shit because of that attitude/atmosphere, because it's not worth their time.

If there were more people saying "yeah, I'd pay a reasonable price for a quality garment, if there were any" then maybe someone might actually give it a shot. But as it is, no one who bothered to do even the most minimal research on the community's attitudes toward pricing would give it a second look.

>>6477599

il Sangue/ginger_kitty. Her shop has been on hiatus since she moved earlier in autumn, but she still pops up here or there.

>>6477581
>>6477582
>Lady Sloth
>same quality as brand

Mmmm no. I would put her at ITS level, personally.

>>6477583
>>6477583

Item reviews are definitely important, and I would never say that photos are more important than actual reviews. But photos won't completely hide flaws, so they are still a good indication of a good garment, provided there are a lot of detail shots.

Also, the idea that a seamstress will put more into the garments that they keep for themselves isn't necessarily true. I know seamstresses who are much more sloppy with what they make for themselves vs what they make for customers. Not noticeable things, but they may neglect to put in hanger straps, or skip interlining, or forget to put the hook & eye at the top of the zipper, or won't tack the bodice self & lining together at the waist, or may not line a skirt at all.
This isn't always the case, as another anon pointed out legsdiamond, but in general, I think most seamstresses know that customer opinion is what gives them a paycheck.

>>6477608
>People in this thread and in the lolita-sphere in general have a warped sense of what things should cost.

Why would you think this is something limited to lolita fashion? It's already been explained why people are hesitant to buy from unknown brands which charge the same, or more, than established brands. This is not a lolita-only concept. It goes for everything.

>If there were more people saying "yeah, I'd pay a reasonable price for a quality garment, if there were any" then maybe someone might actually give it a shot.

I've seen that in dozens of threads.

>>6477612
I agree with you about Lady Sloth, but neither of those photos are Lady Sloth. See >>6477610

>>6477617

Have you actually looked at prices for regular indie fashion shit? It's fucking expensive. On par with 'real' brand name designers, and sometimes more.

>I've seen that in dozens of threads.

Yeah maybe on occasion. The dominate sentiment is "oh, well I'd NEVER pay as much for an indie garment as I would for BURANDO."

>>6477593

Huh, let's see about that.

>>6477574
old Princess Pearl, but technically Princess Pearl (shop on etsy)
>>6477578
Rouge Aerie (on FB & tumblr)
>>6477581
il Sangue (on FB & has an official website)

If there were indie brands who knew what they were doing, I would buy them. The problem is... there really aren't any. Or the very few that pop up do limited runs or aren't indie brands but freelancers who are difficult to "catch."

We get people like Candy Violet, who had wonky construction and a tendancy to shoop flaws that she tried to hide with gaudy (but fun) designs. Or people like I Do Declare who had some fun designs but seem more interested in getting applause and getting featured in ~niche magazines/websites/events~ than actually delivering quality goods to her customers... when she actually delivered the goods at all. Or people like that girl with the glaringly bright screenprints who compared her pricing to Picasso's work being worth $$$

I have had good experiences with indie and Taobao brands. Most of my closet is brand but I cherish all of my non-brand items because they are just as well made, or almost as well made. The only difference I see with my items is less details, meaning that there are less custom things such as custom lace and custom fabric. Construction-wise, it's just as good as brand.

I think that indie brands can be successful if you have something that people want. Look at Lief: their communication was shit at best and people still bought all of their items. Every single one of their prints go higher than the original price (I heard that a Gardenberry JSK sold for $800).

If you know how to work with the market, you'll get customers.

>>6477620
The predominant sentiment among the public is "why should I pay z much for y item when x item costs z amount?" It's not just lolita. You see it in cosplay, in retro fashion, in historical/period costuming, in theater costuming, in general fashion itself. Most people are not willing to risk paying for an item from an indie brand without a reputation and without experience to prove that they are as trustworthy as a cheaper, more established brand.

>The dominate sentiment is "oh, well I'd NEVER pay as much for an indie garment as I would for BURANDO."

People pointing out why indie lolita brands fail for trying to start out charging $250-400 doesn't mean 'OH I'D NEVER PAY THAT MUCH FOR AN INDIE BRAND.'

I think part of the issue is how people define an indie brand. The best quality indie brands do limited work and end up turning down a lot of customers. The shittier indie brands are usually those that are promoting loudly and constantly offering something new, and frequently overcharging for their quality level. Then there are the more mediocre brands, like Princess Pearl, and The Snow Field. I don't think either one is bad, they're both pretty reasonable priced, but neither of them really "wow" you, either. You know that they're not brand.

>>6477627
>
People pointing out why indie lolita brands fail for trying to start out charging $250-400 doesn't mean 'OH I'D NEVER PAY THAT MUCH FOR AN INDIE BRAND.'

Did you like, not read half this thread or something?

>>6477630
Show me exactly where people said: I would NEVER pay brand prices for an indie brand.

>>6477634

>>6477249
>Honestly I think it's ridiculous for indie brands to charge as much as brand, or even, let's say, $175 for a jsk.

>>6477356
>I wouldn't pay more than $120 for an indie dress when I can get a second-hand brand one for $150.

>>6477636

>>6477249 Clearly stipulated that the brand needs to build a fan-base first and that they won't pay a high amount until they "try out their wares" because "it's hit or miss, I don't know you." Not that they would NEVER pay brand prices for indie brand.

>>6477356 was agreeing with that sentiment.

>>6477629

That dress is gorgeous omfg

Pretty simply, OP, if you

>can prove over time that you're capable
>keep your prices cheaper than burando
>can produce lolita clothings that look good
>bonus if it's unique and really original

you're good to go.

I have a request.
Can you guys recommend some seamstresses that will make me something from fabric I provide?
Or ones that sell patterns?

>>6477638

While there are some people willing to pay more for good quality indie brands, there remains a larger number of people who stigmatize indie brands strictly because they're handmade. "Handmade" always equals "low quality," for some people, and yes, they bother established seamstresses, too, in and out of Lolita.
You may be surprised by the number of brides who demand to know why a custom made and fitted 100% silk wedding dress costs more than a mass produced polyester dress off the sales rack at David's Bridal. Note: my boss has a Master's in fashion design, has a well established label, sells through boutiques nation wide, and has won a variety of awards (mostly local), and all of her seamstresses are professionally trained. And we still get the stigma of being some handmade independent label. Now put this in Lolita, and you get even more stingy customers.

>>6478394
What kind of dress or skirt are you looking for, anon? Do you have any peculiarities with fitting, such as being plus size, tall, ultra petite?
Every seamstress has different strengths, so it helps to know what you need.

>>6478430

Lolita stinginess about that sort of thing just seems bizarre to me because 1) these are (theoretically) people who are passionate and reasonably knowledgeable about their niche fashion, most people in that position with respect to any kind of fashion tend to have a greater appreciation of the craft/understanding of quality and 2) these are also people who are already willing to shell out like $400 for (comparatively) simple cotton print dresses where brand is concerned. It strikes me less as David's Bridal customers complaining about handmade dresses not being the same price and more like someone dressed head-to-toe in Louis Vuitton whining that indie designers would dare to charge as much as LV.

>>6478433
I'm 5'4", and fit into brand.
I really only need plain blouses or blouse patterns. Brand blouses have a weird thing where the bust is as small as the waist, but I'm an hourglass.
As for dresses, only non-print classic a-lined jsks. Really simple. I love my IW jsks, but if I can support indie brands I'd like to.

>>6478439

Different seamstress, currently taking a break from it for school.

The people who usually gravitate toward indie brands are often: A) The people who are an awkward fit for brand, and so they've probably gotten comfortable with Taobao prices. Or, B) they're a product of the "Can't afford brand? Go handmade!" idea, and therefore think that all indie brands are cheap. Or, C) they're looking for new and unique prints, which indie brands can't produce as cheaply or as well as brands, because Spoonflower really isn't a great option.

And, if you just look at the number of Bodyline fans, or Oojia's fans, you'll really see the whole "entitled to cheap" mentality. When I was offering commissions for Lolita, I had a girl tell me "Oh. I can get a dress from Bodyline for cheaper than that. Can you do $100?" and ultimately backed out when I told her no. Note: she wanted a really elaborate custom fitted OP that was going to take 5 yards of fabric, and at least 10 yards of lace (which she wanted to be custom dyed). I've had the same thing said about second hand brand, so I basically gave up on making stuff for other people.

>>6478467
sadly, it's not something that's limited to lolita either. It's so common for my period seamstress aunt to be told "BUT I CAN GET A DRESS ON EBAY FOR LIKE, $150" after giving a quote for a few thousand dollars minimum for a custom fitted robe de francaise.

>>6477407
Fashion design student here.

Handmade/tailormade =/= couture. To achieve couture status, you must;
> Design made-to-order for private clients, with one or more fittings.
> Have a workshop (atelier) in Paris that employs at least fifteen people full-time.
> Must have twenty full-time technical people in at least one atelier (workshop).
> Each season (i.e., twice a year), present a collection to the Paris press, comprising at least thirty-five runs/exits with outfits for both daytime wear and evening wear.

Couture also costs a lot more than £140 for a dress. Seriously. That's not even designer ready-to-wear pricing. I've seen jackets cost that much in Zara.

Anyway, with any business, especially fashion, you shouldn't be worrying about making a profit in your first year. Hell, you'll probably make a loss. You should be spending the time to build up a loyal customer base and reputation, and getting your name out there. I'm fairly sure AP and BtSSB were once no-name brands that employed a couple of designers and out-sourced to a factory. They didn't just magically spring out of the ground charging £400 per item. The pricing of fashion is based on desirability, rarity, status carried and perceived value. The work that went into the garment is pretty much irrelevant, which is why high street fashion is so ridiculously expensive for how badly made it is. An indie designer with no reputation and no official storefront is not going to be perceived to be as valuable as a rare print from a brand that many people aspire to own. It just doesn't work like that. If you're really that worried about making money, you should adjust your expenses to match how much people are willing to pay, although that won't help you in the long run. Basically, expect to make a loss in your first 1-5 years of operation, unless you're lucky and really successful.

/rant

>>6478498
Same anon.
On another note, how would people feel about a sort of kit commission service? Say, I were to make a pattern and a sample garment. I would then charge a set price for that garment for just labour and shipping. Customers would then buy their own fabric (I would tell them how much to buy and give advice, maybe requesting samples) and ship it to me, I would make up the garment, and then ship it to them. That way, they know exactly what they're paying for, and how much it's going to be. Does anyone think this is a good idea? It means that the commissioner is being paid purely on their skill, getting a flat rate, and can't inflate the cost of materials to make extra money.

>>6478442

Hmm, there aren't a lot of indie brands with great blouses right now. Miscy/Black Ribbon has some good ones (pic related), though, so you might see if she's available, either for commission or for a pattern. I also know there are a couple of commercial patterns that are awesome for Lolita blouses, if you'd like me to find those for you.

For simple yet elegant classic stuff, you have a lot more options. Miscy/Black Ribbon, The Snow Field, il Sangue, Princess Pearl, possibly English Charm?

>>6477506
>>6477485
>>6477472
You could probably make a skirt in two hours, if you wanted it to look like pic related.

>>6478498
>you shouldn't be worrying about making a profit in your first year.
>profit

Recouping the cost of the labor going into the garment is not the same thing as making a profit. And I'm sure all the famous lolita brands did not start out by offering their wears at bargain basement prices. You do realize that a high price tag is often part of establishing a certain mystique about a brand? It doesn't help that for all the talk about "quality" the real reason people are willing to drop $400 on some baby pink BtSSB monstrosity has nothing to do with quality. It's more about the status the brand name confers and the 'collect-ability' factor. This isn't something an (western) indie lolita label could ever realistically hope to achieve, especially given the weeaboo undercurrents of the fashion.

>If you're really that worried about making money, you should adjust your expenses to match how much people are willing to pay, although that won't help you in the long run.

What does this even mean? Why would anyone start a business without concern for making money? There's a difference between taking calculated losses and effectively giving shit away.

>>6478559
cont.

> Why would anyone start a business without concern for making money? There's a difference between taking calculated losses and effectively giving shit away.
Sorry, I phrased it badly. I was talking about calculated losses. I wasn't saying that you should give things away to begin with, but a lot of people seem to think that indie brand = instant profit, which it isn't. They're pretty much pricing themselves out of the market before they've even started. What I was trying to say was that expecting to become super rich and successful straight away is unrealistic, and you should be prepared for making a loss to begin with.

I guess my point was that nobody is obligated to buy indie brand or pay exorbitant prices for it (or even good prices, for that matter). You have to prove yourself first, which often means putting yourself out of pocket. No matter how many hours you put in, or how much money you spend, if you're not making what people want, you can't expect them to pay over the odds just because it took you a long time to make. Am I making more sense now? Sorry, I'm exhausted and a little tipsy.

>>6478522
>Recouping the cost of the labor going into the garment is not the same thing as making a profit. And I'm sure all the famous lolita brands did not start out by offering their wears at bargain basement prices.

I'm not saying they were selling everything for like £20 a dress, that would be ridiculous. But they probably didn't start at £400 a dress, either.

I'm aware of the difference between turnover and profit; what I was trying to say was that a lot of brands that have been springing up recently seem to be vastly overestimating the perceived value of their time. When you own a business, you pay yourself a salary out of the turnover, and if you are a sole trader, and nobody wants to pay for your products, you just don't get paid, because your finances and the finances of the business are considered the same thing. Look at We're All Mad Here. Wasn't she charging like $300 for her skirts? Yeah, maybe they were well made (I have no idea if they were or not), but if nobody knows who you are, they're not gonna drop $300 on something of completely unknown quality, and there's no way she spent $300 making each one (even if labour is included). Therefore, she is trying to make a profit, which you just can't expect to do to begin with.

>>6477455
I think that anon is referring to Rouge Aerie Designs with the skeleton horse print. Dunno about Jellyfish ones, though. I haven't seen one yet.

I purchased from Morrigan NYC and am very happy with what I purchased, but am very offput by the fact that I won a contest but never received my prize. I contact them every few months and used to get a "we're working on it!" response, and even got some progress photos once of the prize, but then they stopped responding to me about it altogether. It's really offputting and at this point I'd rather receive a response telling me I will never receive it than to be fed lies and then be ignored. Though I'm very pleased with the product I did receive, their customer service is just too bad for me to ever order again.

>>6478492
>It's so common for my period seamstress aunt to be told "BUT I CAN GET A DRESS ON EBAY FOR LIKE, $150" after giving a quote for a few thousand dollars minimum for a custom fitted robe de francaise.

Oh my God. Cheap historical costume fans are the worst. From what I've seen that stuff is a bitch to make, and 150 wouldn't even cover a portion of the cost of fabric. How old are these people?

>>6477613
Agreed. I put more work into the things I make for others mostly because I don't want them to see construction flaws. The insides of my pieces I make for myself appear a mess, the fabric isn't lined up exactly, and I'll even spend less time on construction because I know I can fix my own garments but I'll get a bad rep if I send someone else something that has a chance of becoming damaged.

>>6478576
Cloudberry Lady

>>6478560

I'm not really saying that those girls charging ludicrous prices for sub-par work are in the right here, or that anyone should be expecting to become insta-rich off an indie brand. More that both sides need to adjust expectations? I think there's a middle ground for a reasonably fair price for a garment, based on materials and labor/skill/perceived worth rather than this attitude of "well it's not brand so it couldn't possibly be worth the same."

>>6478579
I had been wondering what ever happened to them. I saw they were pulled from Tokyo Rebel (assumedly because they haven't released anything in months and months?) and then they seemed to just vanish after the Moby Dick series...

That sucks about their customer service though, and it's things exactly like that which are the reason that people are put off from buying indie brands, I think. Even the more ones with the better or older reputations like Morrigan and IxDxD are so inconsistent with their CS so as to not be worth the risk.

>>6478606
To be honest, I think we're sort of making the same point, we just got our wires crossed? I'm not saying that a seamstresses' time is worthless, I'm just saying that the appeal of brand is as much to do with status as it is with quality, if not more so.

> I think there's a middle ground for a reasonably fair price for a garment

That's what I'm talking about. It's somewhere between what you would like to sell for and what people are prepared to pay. And whilst what you would like to sell for will probably stay the same, what people are prepared to pay will go up the longer you're in business. Well, in theory, anyway.

>>6478596
Thanks, I'll look into that one.

>>6478430
This is because 90% of the handmade lolitas see does end up looking shoddy or amateur. If everyone could sew like chiaki_ayumi or frozenivy(?) this wouldn't be the stigma. For every great handmade piece you show me, I can show you a dozen examples of why handmade has the low quality reputation.

I sew myself and appreciate my brand more because of that. I like looking at some indie items but I rarely end up buying it because the fabric is usually quilter's cotton that will wrinkle like a bitch after my first hour in it, horror stories about prior orders, or because I could be putting that money towards brand.

>>6478501
Thank you! I would definitely appreciate if you could tell me the names of the commercial patterns.

>>6478499
That is basically what I need right now haha.
And I think people, especially with the shit hole of an economy we have right now, want to know exactly what they're paying for. A bunch of random costs are confusing a straightforward payment breakdown like you're suggesting is a great idea.

You know what I rarely see? Indie brand making the clothing before selling it. It would be fan-fucking-tastic if an indie brand made an online store that was stocked with ready made items. When I shop online I expect to see the final product, not a drawing of the print you're going to make and a sketch of the dress design. When I order it, I'd like it in 1-2 weeks, but in 3-8 months depending on how busy your life is. If I receive it and there's construction flaws, I need to be able to use Paypal to get my money back. I'd like a consistent product with good photography of the finished product. Not thrown on a table or an ill-fitting mannequin.

Is it really that difficult to act like a real business? I feel if you think you do good work and are actually invested in your brand, you front the costs and make the products before selling them. With how you never see these things, you'd think I was describing one of those impossibilities people ask for like custom sizing AP dresses and internet policing on scalping.

>>6478705
Oh, hey, I didn't notice your post! Is it just blouses that you're looking for? I've put my email in the field if you want to get in contact. No obligation, obviously.

>>6478703
> It would be fan-fucking-tastic if an indie brand made an online store that was stocked with ready made items.
You're not alone. This is totally my dream. To run a company that operates exactly like a normal high street fashion chain (and is similarly priced), but it just happens to be lolita. I think the main problem is that these girls get too carried away with their ideas, and want to make money straight away. God knows, I've done this, although never to the point of actually trying to sell anything. Also, I can only imagine how hard it is to get a loan or venture capital for something so niche, especially if you're eighteen and don't understand basic business practice (which these girls don't, it seems).

>>6478753
>I think the main problem is that these girls get too carried away with their ideas, and want to make money straight away.

It's also not that easy for everyone to come up with cash to create a whole store worth of clothes, or hell, even a full line of dresses, from their own pocket. It's an expensive process, which is why even established Indy brands (ie: most of the Korean brands, Antique Beast, etc.) don't make items until they're ordered or pre-ordered.

>>6478808
Indy? Indie.

>>6478579
Isn't she the one that responded to the negative review of I Do Declare with "how dare you give her a neutral she refunded you!!11!!!"

>>6478703
>It would be fan-fucking-tastic if an indie brand made an online store that was stocked with ready made items.

Just stumbled on this thread. I do run an indie label, and while I have been trying to shift toward more ready-made garments, they actually don't sell as well. The biggest gamble is usually sizing: you make a garment in a pretty generic size, and inevitably the only people interested in it don't fit. It also seems like people just aren't that willing to gamble on ready-made garments over the internet. When I sell things in person, or through a pop-up shop, they sell great. But when it comes to online orders, people usually ask for custom.
The best "in between" is really to make samples of all of your designs, and a few in standard sizes to be ready immediately, and then offer pre-orders for custom sized versions.

>>6478850
http://egl.livejournal.com/16797803.html

Apparently not, but I know she said something that made me go "er..." Wait wait, I think she commented to someone saying they were disappointed with the quality of Morrigan NYC in person or something? I can't remember. Oh well.

A good compromise seems making a couple of dresses to post on a website and take detailed pictures and then have orders for the rest.

>>6478753
Sent an email!
Thanks.

>>6479068
Replied! Sorry it took so long, haha.
Forgot to mention in the email, but it's midnight here, so if there's no reply, I'll be getting back to you tomorrow. Thanks again!

Sage for OT.

Personally, if it's quality stuff, I'd pay more for indie than brand. I mean, if you're getting custom, good quality, one-of-a kind products, I'd say it's more worth it than mass-produced brand clothing. Pic related; all my want.

>>6480472
The problem with that though is the huge loss you'd take in resale value should you ever decide to sell, unless you get it made with shirring. You'd be limited to a very small audience, taking into account a buyer that has to have the exact same measurements as you, the same taste, an interest in handmade pieces, and the right amount of money at the time of your sale with the willingness to spend on something I'd assume they'd find unfamiliar. Those odds also change based on commonality of measurements; it'd be relatively easier to sell a piece that measures 34" bust 26" waist 16" shoulders, but I have 19" shoulders and a 23" waist and would be hard-pressed as fuck to find an available buyer for those measurements should I need to sell a custom piece.

>>6480472
Indie Brand isn't a custom one of a kind product, unless that's stated on their politics. Indie Brands shouldn't be so different from normal stores, except, maybe, making items on pre-order.

Indie brands, like just any small business, will have to spend money to start their business, create a wide variety of designs alongside custom fabrics beforehand, and will have to wait some months of hard work to start earning money, gather a small loyal audience and create a brand that is strong enugh to make customers buy their items (that includes a good customer service, strong brand identity...)

I think most indie brands are handmade business that make stuff on demand, don't have business practices and have unrealistic expectations of earning tons of money from the begining.

What about this? is it terrible? I've wondered.

Piano prints are always overdone or generic

>>6477569
This. I used to be an internet seamstress, but for the work you do it is paid nothing. There are far less stressful jobs you can do for more money. My kudos to you, I did my seamstressing for a summer and never again. As much as I love designing lolita stuff, the only way it's ever getting made is in a factory (in my dreams).

>>6480671
I love Lusty n Wonderland's take of it though. Has anyone ordered from them? Really considering them, but I'm cheap and taobao indies brands has nice stuff for much cheaper.

Saw this irl and it was absolutely gorgeous. The material was really nice too. It's out of stock though so my money is safe.

>>6480472
That is so lovely, where is it from?

>>6480724
Where is it from? I'm in love.

>>6480864
Lusty in Wonderland

Lusty N Wonderland's Rose D'encre

>>6480870
Thanks!

>>6478894
Sounds like you're doing it wrong. Any other brand starting up outside lolita knows how to make a business of ready-made products. Just being lolita doesn't make it impossible.

>>6480724
I have always loved this idea but can't deny that that it does remind me of an accidental period leak.
Also, why does the top of it look like a medieval shirt? Here, I found a perfect example of one for you to look at.

I want to see this idea with a better torso and less period.

>>6480980

I don't really see the period unless you have a sideways vagina and the blood leaks out that way. Just sayin.

>>6480980
They also have blue and black stained versions for those who don't understand how vaginas work

>>6481024
Blue sounds cool, I guess. But then it's losing its' guro appeal.
Also, I didn't say it looks exactly like a real period stain, I said it reminded me of one.

>>6481034
>inb4 'vulgar' btb anon shows up

>>6481034
The design was actually meant to look like an ink stain. It's called "Rose D'encre". Pretty sure that that also plays into the style of the bodice and sleeves, too. I always got the impression that the designer was going for a Shakespeare vibe.

>>6480870
She's got some really nice stuff. Is it factory made?

>>6481278
From reviews, I think she does all the work herself, but I'm not completely sure on that.

>>6481081
Not sure if it was intentional on the designers part but the horizontal lines on the fabric look like the paper you're supposed to practice your handwriting on too.

Oh, look.

http://egl.livejournal.com/18968828.html

Even though this person comes off as total noob, I would like to see more embroidery in indie brands rather than just someone with basic sewing ability and access to spoonflower making another quirky print.

>>6477185
I've bought several indie pieces with the same price tag as brand. Here is my reasoning: I saw the design/print/whathaveyou and thought it was unique, and expertly executed. I saw the marketing of the business/designer going out of their way to answer questions professionally/do interviews/keep up a blog site to keep people update on their work/show WIPs. I asked questions and received legitimate answers (What is the material content? How is the printing done? Who does the sewing?). Custom sizing is not a must for me, but it is a plus for me as I need cup alterations on all princess seam bodices for them to sit properly, or else I have to wear a minimizer/get a size too large in the waist.

Reasons I will not pay for your indie brand: Tried and true designs on mid-tier materials. If you want to do a full princess seamed MM-esque dress, great! But don't do it on a material that I can tell probably only costs 15 dollars a yard/don't skim on custom/dyed lace/don't make it obvious you don't know how to sew.

Don't take shitty/unprofessional pictures (in the bathroom? On a bed? Not showing how it fits a petti? Not showing how the collar lays/sleeves fit, etc). Don't tell me I'm paying brand prices for your 'creativity and the years you spent in college' when you're showing me mediocre designs with mid-tier construction. Don't be rude to me when I ask you WHY I should pay your prices when you don't have a customer base (because you're charging 350 in my currency for a super simple jsk with some custom buttons and a custom print, yes I will ask you why I'm paying that price). Don't tell me that questions about material content/printing process are irrelevant. Because they aren't. Don't be unprofessional to your potential customers!

Don't expect me to be your investor. And please understand how a real business model works... you should NEVER expect to make a profit within the first 2-5 years... that's why you have investors/loans/what have you.

>>6486626
Now, you may say to me

>brands don't have to live up to this standard! It's not fair!

Ok, but you're in an over-saturated market... the brands you know, started in the 70s (well AP did, Baby jumped on in the 80s I believe). They have been constantly innovating, marketing to overseas, keeping up a bar of quality that you can rely on (usually, let's remember, this isn't high tier fashion, this is low-tier, you're paying for a brand name), the re-sale value (because of these reasons) makes a customer feel safe/secure in case something doesn't fit/doesn't look right. So don't try and compare yourself to a decades old established company, that, guess what, had to start just as low down as any business did. Granted, you must take into account there was no competition back then... but guess what, there also wasn't as high of a demand, the fashion had to start/grow from nothing to where it is now, and those brands made that happen.

Things that would be successful in today's market from an indie designer: Tops! TOPS! Cardigans, Blouses, Shrugs, Jackets, Boleros! This is stuff you hardly see from the 'indie designers', so get on it. If you're looking into being a real business, you have to consider outsourcing labor (this would all be included in your business model/plan obviously) and then you could consider shoes/purses/whatever else you want to outsource.

>>6486651
You had me until tops. A fuckton of construction goes into a blouse for a much lower price point, not fucking likely.

A nice princess seamed MM-esque JSK - maybe 7 pattern pieces + lining, easy straight seams, hardly any interfacing necessary, you can probably get someone to fork out over $100. A nice princess seamed blouse with a bib, collar, ruffles, and sleeves? Easily 15 pattern pieces, finnicky work, and no one wants to pay more than $50. Blouses and tops are NOT profitable compared to dresses, that's WHY indie brands don't offer them and why they wouldn't actually be "successful".

>>6486823
Yes, this is why you don't see tops. Because designers these days don't have the skill. Hence the outsourcing. And I never said they would be cheap, I just said there is a market for them.

...In my tailoring class princess seamed blouses ... trying to think of the pattern pieces. Not 15 though, since the body would be copied from left to right, same with sleeves. A collar and cuffs don't equal that many, sorry. I can check into it.

Mostly it's not that they won't do it, it's that they do not have the skill. Hence outsourcing for time and money.

>>6486823
And please don't gloss over the cardis/boleros/shrugs part. These are much more simple to make and cheaper obviously.

mfw I started a page for my work, but do not consider myself a brand

mfw I would only sell accessories and use the page as a public showcasing of skill

mfw fashion design major and I know better to try while I'm still in school

>>6486886
Link?

>>6486888
Not on /cgl/, sorry.

I've just been dying to jump in this thread because it's very very relevent to my interest, my studies, my life in general. But I've banned for doxxing (not quite sure) I chose to wait that out.

I think the only thing not mentioned was that, that it just fucking sucks that indie designers can't have access to wholesale fabric. We can't have quality printing processes or custom woven designs done because minimum yardadge needed is 500 before anyone takes you seriously.

Doesn't Candy Violet outsource most of her current pieces to a factory, although they are now more rockabilly/whatever you call it than lolita?

>>6486839
But is there the sort of market that an indie brand wants, i.e. one where they can actually make money?

For the blouse I describe, there could easily be 15 pieces depending on style. There'd be collar/collar stand/collar ruffle/two front centre pieces (because you know, it has to cross over so you can't do two identical pieces/front side/bib/bib ruffle/sleeve (which could be one or two pieces, depending)/cuff/cuff ruffle/two back pieces/potentially a separate button stand/ potentially button stand ruffle. Even to outsource, it's a larger number of pieces to cut and assemble for a product that people are willing to pay less for, as well as needing more machinery (buttonholer/buttons) and having more time consuming assembly (more seams). What you may save on slightly in fabric cost you will lose in labour cost.

Compare that to a dress - if we're talking MM, then centre front/front side/side back/centre back/straps/hem ruffle/2 pattern pieces for bows, and lining which is based off those pieces, long seams which are faster to sew because there's less stop-start and no buttonholes and buttons to faff around with.

>>6486839
Cardis/boleros/shrugs - again, not something that people are willing to pay that much for, and depending on the fabric may require totally different processes (if we're talking knits, which many cardigans/boleros/shrugs are). Still more complex than simple princess seamed JSKs and again at a lower price point - you can get away with 6 pieces for a puff sleeved bolero with ruffle trim, but again the assembly line is more difficult to work out - assuming ruffle trim on the sleeves/around the collar bit, you've got 3 separate ruffles + sleeves that need to be gathered which again creates more work.

I just don't think there's enough demand for those items or the willingness to pay the price that would be required to make them profitable in comparison to dresses.

>>6486917
Well I disagree. You are assuming/stating people will not pay. However, I am commenting here saying I would pay for those things. As for outsourcing, look at taobao prices and quality for your answer to how cheap (yet not shit tier) things can be made by outsourcing. And I know that several indie brands do send out their fabric to be outsourced for something as simple as a JSK even.

Like I said, in tailoring class, it wasn't that difficult. It looks like you're talking about all the cut pieces of fabric, while I am specifically talking about the pattern pieces themselves (which would not equal over 15 pieces). Understandable that there is a miss-communication there. Yes, I have already stated blouses are much more difficult. There is absolutely no argument there. My tailoring teacher specialized in suits and shirts (for both men and women) just for reference on my background.

I would easily pay upwards of 100 USD for a blouse. I would pay 50-100 range for a cardigan or bolero.

So yes, there is a market. I wouldn't be the only one. Look at the crappy blouse Miscy just commissioned for someone. People are willing to pay, and they don't even know what good construction looks like!

And I assume we're not talking MM OPs, because you'd still be looking at collars and cuffs (easily the most difficult part of the constructions being a nice collar).

>>6486941
>Look at the crappy blouse Miscy just commissioned for someone

Link? Why is it crappy?

>>6486917
And let's not forget the 5 years business plan to get the customer base that you would want, and this is for any specialization, be it tops or jsks, or whatever.

>>6486941
>not that difficult
>much more difficult
Before that gets pointed out, I apologize for it. Blouses are much more difficult than a jsk bodice. Sorry for that error.

>>6486944
Oh the seams puckering all over it make me cringe. She is the latest post on sew-loli. I can't link it right now, but I will come back in a couple mins if you haven't found it.

It's kind of like doing hair. When you start out doing hair (especially in salons with different skill levels), no matter how good you are you can't charge to much.

As you stay in the buisness longer, your price increases.

Same with dresses. Until you establish the quality of your clothes, you can't sell to high.

Plus with brand half of what your paying is the artist's salary who designed the print. They don't work cheap.

>>6486944
http://sew-loli.livejournal.com/1771767.html
Here. first thing I notice: Puckering seams, dimples on the darts (why is it even a darted bodice? Maybe the customer requested that over princess seams???), no cuffs on sleeves (simple elastic gathering, maybe another request??); simple rolled hem instead of a blind hem on bottom; collar is not laying correctly, you can really tell from the back view.

Almost looks like the pieces were not cut correctly.

>>6486962

Man, why would you take photos of a piece without even ironing it properly?

I can't tell if the shirt's just on the form askew or if the pieces are cut weird so it looks slightly asymmetrical.

>>6486953
>Until you establish the quality of your clothes, you can't sell to high.

Pretty much. Though you don't always have to be in business for years to prove that you're worth the price... of course, from what I've seen, most of the "indie brands" who price themselves highly (whether they're worth that price or not) tend to fail within a year or two, at most.

>>6486962
miscy's stuff always strikes me as being slightly "off" a lot of the time--like something is either too big or small in the design or the way it's sewn makes it too tight or oddly tight, even when it's custom made... I'm sure people that actually know about sewing can put what I said in a much better way.

>>6486991
i definitely think it's more in the fit than the technique. she clearly has a decent grasp of sewing but her patterning leaves something to be desired and gives her work a more "handmade", less professional feel.

>>6486993
A lot of her dresses do look tight, even on her/when they're made for her.

>>6486987
miscy checking in. yes i lurk. Valid points! Most of what you are pointing out are indeed customer requests:
This was done on a certain budget, so no I didn't spend the time to do blind hem on it, though I don't personally own many shirts that have one... do you? Serious question. I can't say I've ever seen one. It is a twice folded hem, not a rolled hem though, which I feel is a better weight and feel for a blouse.
She requested the elastic sleeves.
The example blouses she cited were non-princess seamed, and used shirring in the back, darts in the front to create fit, so I went with darts.
She also requested no collar stand.
The pressing issues comes from the fact that I no longer own a dressform and had to take the blouse with me to my internship... I steamed it out as best I could, but some wrinkles needed a pressing to come out. I just wanted to give her proof of completion. These are just quick cellphone pics.

I really don't often take blouse commissions because they are so much work for so little pay. I enjoy doing them every once-in-awhile because they are great learning experiences.

I've mostly moved away from doing commissions and lolita in general but I'll take requests if someone asks and I have the time. Lolita is my hobby, not my business. If I were to make it so, I'd go into production, and probably stay out of handmade, people seem to be way more happy with factory product. Please critique away though, I love learning what I could have done better. Any thoughts on how I could have lessened the puckering on that stretch fabric for example would be loved.... I did stay-stitch, but it seems that it didn't help as much as I would have liked.

Hmm, curious to know how WAMH is doing? Anyone know?

>>6486941
No, I'm talking about pattern pieces too, i.e. the minimum number of pieces you would need for a blouse of that description.

1. Collar = one pattern piece.
2. Collar stand = also one pattern piece.
3. Collar ruffle = also a single pattern piece
4. Centre front (left)
5. Centre front (right)
There would be two different pattern pieces for the centre front parts because one's going to have buttons, one's going to have a button stand. I think I initially had the button stand listed as a separate piece, but I think it's normally part of the centre front. You could argue that the centre front is just one piece with a bit added when you cut out the side with the buttonstand, but you still need a separate pattern piece to cut it accurately.
6. Side front = one pattern piece. Obviously this gets cut twice
7. Bib = one pattern piece, probably needs to be cut twice so each side has a bib bit
8. Bib ruffle = one pattern piece, cut twice
9. Sleeves = one pattern piece cut twice, unless you want to make your sleeves in two pieces, which you really don't do much for lolita.
10. Sleeve cuff = one pattern piece, will need it like 4 times to insert the ruffle. Possibly optional if just elasticating the sleeves.
11. Sleeve ruffle = one pattern piece, will also need it twice
12. Possibly optional if using elastic as above - Sleeve slit piece = cut twice
13. Centre back piece = one pattern piece, cut once
14. Side back piece = one pattern piece, cut twice.
15. (again, possibly optional) button stand ruffle (i.e. looks like it's either side of the button stand)

so I guess I end up with about a dozen pieces for the shirt if we discount the optional ones.

>>6487020
Actually, coming back to this, you are missing a few for the facings.

Ok, I recant. At least 15 pieces if you count all the ruffle strips. I don't remember them all, heh.

>>6477330
I got one of Baroque's sailor dresses, and I can honestly say it's a very nice dress and well made. But then it's not a print, so maybe that's why.

>>6477330
Hanueli or whatever is great. What about Dear Margaret as well?

>>6487027
I have a dear margaret dress and it is gorgeous.

>>6487029
I really want the striped one with the little ribbon/badge clip... That will probably be my next indie purchase, OR a 4 oclock dress. One of the striped ones... Apparently I'm on a stripe kick.

>>6487022
Yeah, but I should've counted lining/facing pieces separately for the dress as well since you don't make lining the exact same size as the dress.

>>6487034
Such is life! :)

>>6487033
What's 4oclock?

>>6487034
Oh and I'd like to say, personally, the more 'classic' and 'simple' designs (let's take a fully princess seams MM-esque, A-line dress) would warrant more money from me than the original indie prints I own... Because there is no hiding any kind of flaw in that design/fit. And you have to see the quality in the materials. I would easily spend 300-500 in my currency for something like that. It's probably why I like 4oclock so much as a designer. Perfect execution and design (look at how she matches the stripes into the seams on her striped pieces, ugh) , while the materials/quality appear to be worth the price tag.

Anyway, just me talking about my opinions on this subject. It's really something I do enjoy talking about.

>>6487038
FACEBOOK/4oclockbylindafriesen

>>6487045
Oh her! Her work is gorgeous.

>>6487045
God, her work is so expensive, but it looks worth it. I'm saving for this OP here but I'd probably get it with long sleeves.

>>6487040
Stripe matching/pattern matching in general is AMAZING.

http://fashion-incubator.com/archive/kate-rawlinson-cutter-extraordinaire/

>>6487052
Yea her prices are up there with brand, but honestly her work is brand quality, definitely worth it

>>6487099
I think she's a bit more than brand both in price and quality.

>>6487099
>prices are up there with brand

She's more than brand, though? Her lowest price seems to be 300 euro and that's probably for skirts, with jsks around 500 euro (I think the white one linked above she quoted at 550 or 600 euro)? Her construction looks fabulous, though.

>>6487106
Oh really? The last time I asked about a high waist skirt I was quoted around 200 euro

I guess that is still quite high

>>6487053
Oh god. Just creamed myself.
Read through the entire thread, and I am one of those people who could be the indie brand people want, but choose not to.

I do, however, run a long time indie accessories brand, I wouldn't even say brand. However, as I work full time lately, anything I've made has been sitting in a box in my room, as I haven't the time to sell it. I'd like to have an online shop up and running again, and would have to reestablish myself. I'd also like to do a bit more sewing.

My work has a lot of fans, but most wouldn't even know my brand's name, just which shops you can buy it.


As someone who's also worked in the fashion industry, and knowing myself and other lolitas, I have no interest in making garments beyond a piece here or there.

>>6487314
Honestly it doesn't seem worth it to become that indie brand, because the western lolita community is full of people who are more trouble than they're worth as buyers.

>>6487337
>>6487314

no1curr

>>6486651
>Tops! TOPS! Cardigans, Blouses, Shrugs, Jackets, Boleros!

JESUSFUCKINGCHRIST THIS. Good god sometimes it's so hard to find lolita-appropriate cardigans and boleros, and they're what I'm most interested in buying (those shitty solid colour plain cardigans you can get at department stores just don't cut it unless going casual).

I wouldn't pay brand prices for indie clothing. I would rather pay that high amount to have the status and prestige of owning precious brand and know that it would be easier to sell especially considering it isn't custom sized.
Generally, I just wouldn't buy indie. Call me stupid, but I don't feel comfortable or confident in a dress that was made by some fashion student wannabe designer who doesn't have enough feedback to give me any comfort in buying anything.
The ONLY indie brand I would consider buying from is 4 O'Clock and if I was sexually turned on by lolita fashion, I'd probably be playing an intense round of DJ hero on myself right now.

>>6487369
Sure, that's why people keep whinging about not being able to get the right blouse, and "why are so expensive/hard to do?". Guess you didn't read the thread.

Kudos for getting me to reply.

>>6487045
I love her stuff!

>>6488198
It's just stunning. I hope she says open for commissions for a while, when I get to my goal weight (hopefully by next Christmas) I'd love to commission her.

>>6488198

>>6488203

>>6478498
I'm a fashion student too, and that's haute couture. Couture just means dressmaking and there's no restriction on using the term. I don't think there's any indie brand lolita for sale that I would classify as couture, though.

The problem to me is that lolita is a very restrictive aesthetic with a lot of rules and so justifying their pricing with innovation like indie labels outside of lolita do is near-impossible, especially considering most people are awful designers. And so they fall back on prints, which can go very well but means much more fuss has to be made in the cutting stages in addition to designing and having expensive fabric printed. Fabric printing often comes with pretty high minimum orders and is a big investment, too.

So basically, to find good indie brand you'd need someone who is an exceptional seamstress and can compete with the quality of Chinese people who have been sewing every day of their lives, can also design garments that are innovative but not too innovative that they break 'the rules' of the fashion that most of your potential clients will want to adhere to or has enough cash and potential customers to be able to have fabric printed.

I think starting a brand without industry experience is also an idiotic idea and most students who start one right out of fashion school either fail terribly or have financial backers to rely on because they are insanely talented and from amazing schools like Central St Martins or something. So unless you can find someone with a quality education in addition to all those things and then convince them they should be charging less for their garments than China does, unlike indie labels outside of lolita, then indie brand is always going to be a struggling thing. A few might make it, but there will always be chaff and it will never be able to compete with the brand.

>>6489031
Makes sense. I've always known haute couture and couture to be used interchangeably, and anything else is ready to wear, but I guess we don't really cover small scale dressmaking or anything beyond what goes on at fashion week.

>>6487049
HOLY SHIT WHERE CAN I GET THIS (ok admittedly the velvet looks a little dodgy but I still want it)

>>6489631
>FACEBOOK/4oclockbylindafriesen
Did not see this beforehand. Sorry