/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10863960
I don't think most people who weren't already into classic will get into it. It's more size restrictive, less flashy, and more expensive than, say, sweet. Older Innocent World sweet-classic might come back around but only because OS florals are trendy.

Vkei, especially Malice Mizer, is really trendy with dorky zoomers. Although the people who got into lolita through the vkei trend on tiktok are overwhelmingly ita 15 year olds who bitch about not being able to afford nu Moitie, some will inevitably stick around. True Mana-clone EGL might make a return eventually, but the way prices are going with pre-2018 Moitie I don't know.

I know that materials are more expensive and that Tanaqlo has no lolita designer, but people would pay a fucking ton of money for Moitie that matches the quality and design that the brand used to be known for.

I think clolita's influence on the aesthetic in the West might shrink eventually because people are more openly talking about how shady Devilinspired is, but there's a bigger market in China than anywhere else so brands (esp AP) are going to continue catering to them.

AP and Baby are doing just fine money wise, it's all the other brands that are worrying.

I think we'll be seeing more japanese and western brands close due to difficulty staying afloat.
Western lolitas probably won't get interested in classic unless IW re-releases their old school stuff, or starts to make stuff in that aesthetic.

Existing japanese brands will probably broaden their appeal by releasing simpler stuff that caters to other japanese fashions that are popular.
I think we'll see even more long dresses.

It's sad but I expect that brands will continue to cut costs by reducing the quality of materials and construction.

I don't think chinese lolita brands will lose their appeal to the western market, they offer lower prices and more generous sizing. I was browsing taobao the other day when I was looking for shoes and legwear, and tried a few links from the taobao brand masterlist. I noticed some aesthetics that nearly never get any attention and aren't what you think about when you imagine "taobao lolita". There were some simpler cotton pieces there, in sensible colors (and not mustard, teal and coral) and still 100% lolita and nothing specifically taobao lolita aesthetic, that I hope will gain more of an audience than your typical chinese lolita stuff. It seems easy to wear and easier to combine with other brand stuff because it isn't crazy colors.

Clolita might be the most recession proof stuff, because their material and construction quality isn't generally high to begin with, so their production costs are lower. Those brands might not have as hard a time staying afloat as brands that want to maintain higher standards.

>>10864007
The brands that close down will be the ones that become the next trend due to the added exclusivity.

I think that its hard to tell at this point. While lolita is an alt fashion it can't be separated from the world of fashion as a whole especially in terms of actual production. In the west the industry is in a strange place with a massive divide between fast fashion and the desire for sustainability. While I don't think that group B is winning there is a growing market for more expensive slower fashion in the younger generation. I'm not sure if this attitude will catch on with something as trend based as lolita though especially given how things have gone with western brands who've tried it. I also feel like its worth pointing out that a lot of western brands are pretty bad in a way that can't fully be explained by different aesthetics imo. I feel like it might come from the fact that a lot of them are one person operations that expand instead of companies started by people who actually know about the design and construction process. I think a lot of them would benefit from speccing existing pieces for reference.
Anyway I think that things will probably get worse at least in the short term. Its possible that if brands like moitie and VM stick around long enough through brand loyalty we might see some improvement but its really hard to know

>Burando isn't focusing on high quality print releases because it costs too much with too little return

Kind of feels like how Disney stopped making hand drawn films. Their reputation was initially established and people gonna brandwhore even for bad releases, so what else do they have to prove?

Speaking of bad releases, does anyone know how well the AP Final Fantasy collab sold?

I echo a lot of sentiments already here. I have a pretty negative outlook on the future.

>>10864007
>It's sad but I expect that brands will continue to cut costs by reducing the quality of materials and construction.
I think this will be very true. Angelic Pretty in particular is resting on its laurels. I doubt AP would gain the following it has today if it was releasing what it is now, in the past. In general, everything (inclusive of everyday products) has been pushed towards cheaper production for quick consumer thrills and the need to buy more when things break/degrade quickly. I personally hate it, because I buy things to keep them as long as possible. AP will only continue to get worse and worse, to see just how lazy they can be while still making money. In a few years, they'll probably look like normie releases, with a small bit of added flair. I feel like AP is almost purposefully bad at knowing what it's own customer base wants.

>>10864024
>next trend due to the added exclusivity
That's what catapulted old sweet AP into thousands of dollars secondhand, so I believe this. Anything "you can't get anymore" will always become a hype, and the social media generation only makes that worse.

>>10864034
>Anyway I think that things will probably get worse at least in the short term
The next 5-10 years will probably be a low point for lolita. After hitting rock bottom, maybe there will be a renaissance or something, to revivie the fashion at it's roots. Brands might recognize that they have gotten too similar to normie fashion, and then start releasing OTT/unique/outlandish things again to set them apart. And that's only if brands are still alive by then.

>>10864052
I do think that given just how fast trend cycles have gotten in the past few years I'd guess rock bottom is probably going to be closer to 5 years than 10 for better or for worse. I'm not counting on it but I do think a renaissance is possible. It may be more extreme but things like mass closings of brands have happened before in previous economic downturns, it still isnt good but it doesn't indicate death throes to me yet especially because this isnt unique to lolita. I think that its easy to forget how small lolita brands, even the main ones, are compared to the majority of long running fashion companies.
I think what we could end up seeing is a very different community- one formed from who ever sticks around.
I'm very curious to see if any of this might lead to more people making their own stuff as things get worse but I doubt it will.
The thing that gives me some kind of hope is that for better or worse lolitas are insanely loyal. I know that I'm planning on dying in baby just like momoko and I'm far from the only one. I think that as long as older lolitas exist theres always some chance of a comeback as weird as it sounds

Brands will continue to release and rerelease their most loved designs because they sell consistently, like how Baby releases millefeuille jsk/lace frill jsk almost annually and rereleased sugar bouquet.

AP still has some life in it, and they've begun making a lot of solids. I noticed they rereleased old designs like POP CHECK. They can do MTOs of popular late 2000s - mid 2010s prints if they really need a profit.

I think lolitas in general are "returning to their roots" for inspiration, looking at FRUiTS, old GLBs, 90s coords. Pop culture in general is full of reboots, revivals and y2k nostalgia atm. I think the old school trend will continue for a good while.

I don't think smaller brands will survive. None of them have items/prints with as strong a cult following as, say, Milky Planet. They've got nothing to rerelease for an easy cash grab.

>>10864007
>I noticed some aesthetics that nearly never get any attention and aren't what you think about when you imagine "taobao lolita". There were some simpler cotton pieces there, in sensible colors (and not mustard, teal and coral) and still 100% lolita
Please do share! I've been looking to buy some Taobao pieces to wear places where I wouldn't want to risk damaging my old brand, but have yet to find anything good quality and design wise.

>>10863960
>classic revival

GOD PLEASE

>>10864007
>>10864183
Yes please share anon, that's exactly what I'm looking for

>>10863960
Lolita is dead, and its because of Discord forcing all socialization off of this board. We needed the pre-2015 board culture to stick around, and without it this will only be a husk of coomers and board tourists. Unfortunately the future of lolita is just men and money-hungry hoes who will put on a taobao dress for some onlyfans cash from nerds.

If you look inside you know it to be true that all the problems here are caused by men:
women don't start coomer threads
women can't be creepy fetishists
men don't care about drama which is the lifeblood of this board
men are more likely to be autistic which is abysmal for a very social hobby and misses out on a lot of the feelings behind the clothes

>>10864268
>men are more likely to be autistic
You do realize you are in a lolita thread, right? 95% of all the people participating are autists by definition

>>10864268
>>men are more likely to be autistic
Firstly, not even true. When accounting for medical misogyny men and women are about equal. Second, probably at least half of the western community are autists anyway. It's a weeaboo-adjacent collector's hobby for making outfits that are basically mix-and-match uniforms.

This board in particular might be kill but with the slow gutting of every social media site people are going to want to return to smaller communities. I predict that blogging and personal websites are going to be much bigger for the community in the next few years.

>>10864268
lmao no /cgl/ and the western comm in general make up a tiny, insignificant portion of both the community and customer base. lolita is dying though, but that's because all jfash is dying. not just due to covid, but younger generations prefer to buy cheap fast fashion from shein and romwe and don't care about brands. this is across the board in the west and japan. lolita brands are suffering because they keep burning the candle at both ends, trying to entice a younger customer base, while trying not to isolate their older, loyal customers. take the japanese economy into account post-covid and you have a recipe for disaster. social media and globalized online shopping also make traveling to previous jfash meccas like harajuku and shibuya unnecessary so brick and mortar stores are closing down regardless of popularity. it has nothing to do with anything happening in the western comm or on /cgl/.

>>10864183
>>10864208
Sorry nonnies, since I did not intend to buy anything not related to shoes or socks I did not save any links or store names. I was just looking at random links from the taobao lolita shop list that is on google drive and pops up as first search result when you google "taobao lolita shop list".

Like other anons have said, lolita is dying (or dead, even) but that's not due to the western comm. All fashion is dying because nobody cares about brand loyalty anymore. Rich people can afford 1000+ dollar t-shirts just for their brand, sure, but the average person doesn't care about saving up for brand items and would prefer the cheaper price of Amazon/shein/aliexpess etc.
All fashion is dying, even western fashions are dying. High-end luxury brands are only surviving because some people have too much money, and that's a tiny portion of people. Lolita is already a shell of its former self and the newbies getting into it are being actively encouraged to shop on cheap websites instead of saving up for dresses secondhand.
In Japan many brands are likely to close or struggle due to the same issues above, their economy, and they'd need to fit the mainstream by making things more toned down.
The future and present of lolita are depressing, things will not get better at this point. Things started to die around 2015-2016 and will continue to die as respect for fashion as a whole dies too.

>>10864357
lolita fashion is not dead but it's more like that one stubborn family member who should have died ages ago from all of the ailments they have. They will probably get older than anyone else in the family has but has been complaining about their creeky back, arthritic joints, diabetes, that one time they went to the beach and came home with melanoma, high blood pressure, that mini stroke they had last year and now they can't roll their Rs properly anymore, or spell "necessary "without using spellcheck, having to sleep with a CPAP machine, having to walk with a cane, etc, for over a decade now.

>>10864268
>women can't be creepy fetishists
You can just admit you're clinically retarded you know.

>>10864302
>>10864357
do you think more people would care about buying brand/higher quality pricier clothing instead of fast fashion if the economy is good and they can afford it? from my personal observation tons of people are struggling financially right now with low wages, high rent, high food costs, etc and can't afford anything more than fast fashion prices for clothes even if they want nicer stuff.

>>10864431
NTA but they literally can't
it takes a LOT, like a monumental amount of proof for a woman to be viewed as creepy like a man, and even then its more likely people see her as just unfortunate like mentally ill

you just have to suspect a man is or have him be not well groomed and start a rumor a few times with the right people and he will be easily excluded from spaces he doesn't belong in

>>10864183
>>10864208
NTA but I immediately thought of Tiny Garden.

Stop whining about lolita being dead. So what? Go outside in your frills anons. Lonelitas have existed since the beginning of the fashion. If brands close or enshittify then buy secondhand old pieces or DIY them. You don't need celebrities, comms, and social media validation to be a lolita if you have even an ounce of creativity in you.

>>10864484
Lolitas are more than ready to label a woman in the comm a gross creep. It doesn't take a whole lot of evidence either. If she's friends with a dude with a thing for lolis that's enough. If she posts weird fan art or wants to roleplay MHA that's enough.

>>10864653
This. People have been saying lolita is dead for years and it has never been true.
They have a strange definition of dead.

>>10864653
I don't really care about comms or events. I've mostly been a lonelita anyways. What I care about is my favorite brand (that brought me into the fashion) killing itself. We can only shop secondhand for so long, until all the pieces there become so old that they are either damaged beyond repair, lost, or thrown away. To an extent, that's already the case with certain releases. And DIY is an option, but it doesn't really rekindle the magic.

>>10864653
This. Brands can go fuck themselves for all I care. DIY and Taobao is where is at. Brands are a start but when you see how overpriced it is for what they are it's ridiculous. Prints are more exclusive, yes, that's a more delicate matter you can't easily replace. But I've gotten great prints in nice fabric from Taobao for literally $5/m. Japan too, albeit more expensive at $10/m but pure cotton as so many ppl here prefer. I've gotten so many prints over time I've got a wardrobe filled with them, lol. Laces? Taobao has them by the truckload.

It boggles my mind how ppl don't turn to DIY after some time in lolita. It's a whole new dimension and brings proper ability into the hobby than just consooming dresses. Even if you don't sew it yourself, at least fabric/lace/material gathering and designing is a lot more fun than dropping $500 for a 2nd hand dress.

>>10866665
lol,
Looks like you're priced out of the market or simply the fact that most die-hard brand whores collected their share and now the market is dry with unwanted listings. It totally sucks, we get it but this is the reality for new lolitas and those that never had a chance to begin with. Girls like you just have to pray that someone quits and does a massive wardrobe sale.

>>10866665
>Taobao is where is at
Ew
>It boggles my mind how ppl don't turn to DIY after some time in lolita
I DIY some things (mostly accessories if I need something very specific). But DIY-ing an entire coord? That's such a pain. And DIY will never replace things like brand OTKs. For me, it's the same reason people don't become professional chefs after eating out at their favorite restaurant. Sometimes we just want to buy/appreciate things rather than make them ourselves, and that's okay. Maybe we could make the dish at home, but it'll never be exactly the same one.

I'm guessing we're heading towards a comfier, more practical side of the fashion, not necessarily any one particular style.
Because I have no idea where else to ask this-
I've been out of the online community long enough to have no idea what the fuck LOC is- can someone please explain.

>>10866665
>It boggles my mind how ppl don't turn to DIY after some time in lolita. It's a whole new dimension and brings proper ability into the hobby than just consooming dresses.
Not everyone has the time for that. Most lolitas have actual lives and careers outside of the fashion and just buy it to wear it. This cope post sounds like you can't afford to do that with brand so you settle for taobao.
>I've gotten so many prints over time I've got a wardrobe filled with them
>consooming
The irony.

it's not looking good

>>10866665
I DIY accessories and bags, but my skills are nowhere near good enough to make a whole JSK. It literally takes years of effort and practice to be able to create a JSK as good as old AP or BABY. I can understand why people prefer to buy main pieces.

>>10866750
Careers get in the way of free time, I don't think anyone seriously in this fashion (as in keeps up with new releases and wears/takes pictures of themselves wearing regularly) has a job that makes more than 80k a year or so. If you are working all the time you just don't have a good work life balance to enjoy the clothes you worked so hard for

>>10866847
>I don't think anyone seriously in this fashion (as in keeps up with new releases and wears/takes pictures of themselves wearing regularly) has a job that makes more than 80k a year or so.
Two examples in the brand thread of people that do other than me, and I’m sure there are more if asked. Weird to assume that people don’t.
>>10863025
>>10862934

>>10866861
anon must think you have to be a CEO to make more than 80k, which honestly isn't that much.

>>10866847
You don't have to be working all the time to make 80k+ unless you're working an hourly job. An adult with a degree can get a 9-5 salaried job in a decent sized city and easily make over 80k. I make over 100k.

>>10866665
DIYing a JSK and OP requires a certain level of skills. A lot of DIYs main pieces look obviously home made. They also don’t retain any value and with all the time and material poured into what looks like a mediocre piece, might as well buy second hand brand.
Taobao will 9/10 always looks and feel like taobao. There are few quality pieces out there. I tend to sell the majority of what I’ve ordered because they’re a disappointment.

I've been into lolita since early 2000s. The situation now seems pretty dire, but I don't think it's the end.
A big issue is economics - young people may want to support artists but they simply don't have a lot of money. The big fashion booms in Japan in the 90s happened under a good economy. In a bad economy, people just don't have much to spend on ostentatious, expensive clothing. It's pretty simple. I do think the situation will improve in the future, contrary to what a lot of people think.

Another factor is that a lot of the lolitas who CAN afford stuff as they are in their 30s, are aging, gaining weight, and just moving on and doing other stuff. A lot just don't fit in the clothes or look good in them anymore.

But I don't think it's the end of the fashion. it's been around for decades, it's unique, and it's not going anywhere. I think Baby, Meta, AP, and *maybe*, if we're lucky, VM and IW will stick around. AtePie will stick around, and some of the other smaller brands will too, as well as newer brands.

Fashion is cyclical, lolita fashion is eternal. It will come back in some form. Enjoy the deals while you can.

>>10866884
Ahh American salaries... how nice

>>10866748
>LOC
lovers of christ

I am not lolita myself but I own lots of items bought from lolita brands like AP and BTSSB because they are extremely cute and generally well made. Its very rare that I will ever encounter anyone that is wearing the same item as me and I like that a lot.

The items on the lolita sites are almost always sold out within a week or two so I think they are doing quite well. I do however think that Lolita as a fashion and subculture is dying out. Part of it is the fact fast fashion is killing designers, another part of it is the fact westerners generally arent too fond of hypergirly prissy outfits (especially the asexual kind) as everyday wear or simply cannot afford it. Lolita is very much a lifestyle and a collectors hobby as much as it is fashion.

Japanese clothing will always be trendy and popular, I still see a massive demand for it. But most zoomers are broke and simply cannot afford a 350 dollar + shipping JSK. Its also hard to wear lolita out in public in the west without being harassed or getting negative attention. The Lolita girls I know in Germany and France have been harassed and even attacked when wearing Lolita outside.

Most westerners do not understand the style and find it strange and amusing at best or it bothers and provokes people at worst. Japanese people are much more open minded about unusual fashion and leave people alone. Westerners are unfortunately too nosey and narrow minded.

It makes me feel better that I am helping to support lolita brands even if I am technically lolita myself. I think lolita brands could make a killing with the western market if they just promoted their companies and designs better and made them more accessible to western customers. Movies like Kamikaze Girls are still very popular among zoomies. Most normies dont want to be spend a 50% markup or paying 50 dollar shipping from Japan. However importing and distributing more in the west would also destroy the exclusivity, that might bother a lot of lolitas.

>>10867189
Not technically Lolita myself*

I unironically think it's dying as we know it (for real this time).

>>10866884
Not all of us are in IT or STEM or live in the Bay Area lmfao

>>10867229
that's because all jfashion is dying. lolita has always followed other jfash trends if you look at it through the years and they're doing the same thing now, which is why it's starting to resemble other jfashions. it's all just a product of globalized media and marketing. everything will be shein eventually.

>>10867270
80k is only 10k shy of the average US teacher's salary, anon. Either you work an entry-level office job, or you life in a 20k pop southern town, but your opinion doesn't count either way.

>>10864208
>>10864183
I've wanted to talk about this for a bit. I was browing AliExpress for other stuff and felt like looking for Lolita in the middle of it, and found some really cute and interesting pieces like pic related. I know the hate for clolita, taobao and AliExpress, but I saw stuff with potential in the middle of my diving. My gripe with chinese stuff is the usual ones: shit fabric quality, shit designs, shit prints; but if they start releasing cuter and discrete stuff I may just dip and make something out of AliExpress for shits and giggles.
The brands I saw getting stuff like that were Alice Girl and Infanta.

>>10867303
This is not the kind of stuff I mentioned. Just to be clear. It still reads as taobao aesthetic to Mr.

>>10867276
I’m in a suburb of LA (Los Angeles just in case you’re dumb enough to confuse it with the abbreviation for Louisiana) but please go off salary chan. I’m curious to know more of your brain dead takes on salaries in the US.

>>10867345
Oh thank God, I was really confused as someone who actually lives in the south and our average salary (in my state) is 40k. It sounded wrong but I wasn't sure.

>>10867270
I'm not in STEM nor in the Bay Area or anything like that.

>>10867345
Nta but the only thing brain dead is the idea that anyone making over 80k HAS to be constantly working, which is your initial statement. Most people who work all the time to such an extreme degree do so because they make way less and for a lower wage and are trying to save or make ends meet.

It's not unrealistic to say that many people make less than 80k but it's also just a fact that a lot of people, especially ones with money to blow on niche fashion interests, make more than that without having to be a workaholic.

>>10867353
I’m >>10867345 and never said anything about consistently working. Do you think multiple anons are one person? Literal retard.

>>10867353
Yeah, I make 100k and work like 15 hours a week. I've always been pretty lazy at work.

>>10867345
anon, 69k is the national average teacher salary...

>>10867370
Not all of us are teachers you dense sperg. Shut the fuck up and make a thread about salaries in the US because this is not the place for it

>>10866863
If I was a CEO, I'd be making 600k, not 80k.
>>10866904
If you step into a lolita thread & make the judgement American salaries are regularly 80k, you're a fool. That being said, opportunities to make 80k are available if you have the right skills or are at the right place at the right time.

I think lolita is alive and well in many parts of the world. I think Chinese brands are getting a leg up on typical Japanese brands in the lace monster department. Their lace monsters look better that say BTSSB's these days. Is American culture conductive to lolita right now? I think the answer is no. However, culture here can be drastically different in a short period of time. 5-10 years, it could change. We've had multiple spells where reception toward alt fashion is good & spells where it's frowned upon.

Adding to what I said, perception is America is likely to change every time we get a new, popular pop star with more eccentric tastes in fashion in 'public radio friendly music'. When Lady Gaga, Nicki Minaj, and Katy Perry were at their height, public perception was better. (You were less likely to get harassed wearing lolita or anything else weird.) Twiggy is an example of a different time in American history that you see the same trend. However, the instant the popular stars are wearing more 'traditional' fashion or at least what falls more in line with 'mainstream', perception changes negatively. That's just my thought though from noticing trends with J-fashion in the U.S.

>>10867778
did you understand my post at all? anon thinks 80k is a lot of money for some reason.

>>10867778
Somehow you understood what I meant in the second part of your sentence

>>10867271
Yes Korean fashion is pretty much replacing jfashion even in Japan. I know styles change and stuff, but the difference i saw between what was available in stores and what Japanese girls were wearing when I went to Tokyo in 2011 vs when I went back in 2022 was very depressing. The clothing is so bland now and completely lacks quality, embellishments or cute details. Pretty much life western fashion now too.

>>10866665
People like you are whats killing this to be honest. Most of the dresses on taobao aren't even considered lolita. They just slap the label on it so you guys buy buy buy. You ignore the simple concepts and guidelines that make this fashion what it is.

Im so sick of all of these people changing the very being of lolita fashion with their own personal issues and diluting the style into an ugly deflated costume.

Just accept the style isnt for you and participate in a different fashion.

Lolita fashion is absolutely a shell of what it was and I try to be accomedating. But now its so much worse!

People can't wear head accessories because they get headaches. (I'm 90% sure it's the greasy hair on your head.)

People don't wear petticoats because "old school didnt" (they did.)

People can't wear the shoes because of feet issues so they opt for sneakers.

Why do they even want to be here?

Sorry for seething but it's infuriating what this has become and what has become acceptable today fashion wise.

People like
>>10866884
>>10867276
are so out of touch its almost hurtful. I wouldn't be surprised if they were struggling in retail or food service like the rest of us.

Making over 80k is not easy, you have to be smart or been lucky enough to make connections through your family or friends. inb4 some pell grant lottery winner "girl from the ghetto" says anyone can do get into a good school and a high paying job if they just try harder.

>>10867969
>Making over 80k is not easy, you have to be smart
Way to out yourself as dumb.

FYI it's not a lottery, you were just from a family that was financially well off enough you didn't qualify. Your animosity for poor people that you think have some sort of advantage over you because you amounted to little —not because of your background but your own mediocrity— is obvious.

>>10867969
I don't live in America retard
in actual first world countries, higher education is free so its your fault if you're poor

>>10867967
Nayrt and I agree with you and see where you're coming from for the most part.
But there's definitely a difference between people diluting the fashion because they think "fashion has no rules" and "lolita fashion can be whatever I think it is" and people making a compromise with their own outfit because of circumstances even though they would rather adhere to the guidelines 100%.
If someone can never wear anything on their head, sure they might as well opt for a different fashion. People who (perhaps temporarily) can't wear a petticoat because of comfort issues, I think there's ways around it. Some dresses and skirts are poofy enough on their own because of the material (thick material such as corduroy for example) and/or a built in petticoat (lining with tulle gathered onto it), and/or the volume of materials (3 tiered skirt/dress with a generous gathering factor). Also not everything needs to be mega poofy. I have some old dresses that can accommodate modern amounts of poof but look better with a small amount of poof.

As for bad feet, I totally get why someone would get the comfortable basic black mary janes from a non lolita brand that makes comfortable shoes for people with difficult feet instead of the towering platform heels that would be the best choice aesthetically. Or pastel sneakers.

I have some shoes that it turns out I can only walk short distances in, or stand in for short amounts of time. But people don't just wear lolita fashion for pictures (I hope) so of course there are going to be some compromises in style sometime, especially at a meet up where there might (maybe unexpectedly) be a lot more walking (including to and from the meetup) than you might usually do in lolita. It's not a good excuse to get out discolored ratty old sneakers in the middle of a meet, but that's the only other option they have sometime. I would never bring sneakers, but then again my feet aren't as difficult as some people's feet.

>>10867969
>the rest of us.
most lolitas don't work retail. i didn't even go to school and instead got into my industry based on skills. never worked retail at all. you said in your post you need to be smart, and you're clearly not. but someone has to work all those low-end positions.

>>10867995
>most lolitas don’t work retail
Citation needed

>>10867999
its just harmless talking up to make your life look better, everyone does that on the Internet. Its not about how much you make but what you do with what you have. I'd rather take my comfy 4 days a week phone job that leaves me with plenty of time for volunteering, caring for my animals and genuinely helping society than striving for a career that probably involves stepping over and exploiting people

>>10867967
classic over here and idk why you're seething at this person for saying DIY taobao materials and using your own skill to make something fit to you is "killing the fashion" ? I understand all your complaints and I think it's valid, to wear lolita you kind of have to not look like absolute shit and follow the rules, but people have always made their own shit even from the very start of this fashion. It's nice to have a personalized piece, it's just what most people make are from shitty joanne's patterned fabric. Even if they paid for brand they can't buy taste. I hate itas as much as the next person, but this person said "some time in the fashion" aka actually developing taste and understanding garments before jumping in, which i find agreeable?

>>10868001
to me it was clear they were complaining about people buying actual garments from taobao, not people buying sewing supplies on taobao. They ignored that part of the post they were replying to.

>>10868000
>its just harmless talking up to make your life look better, everyone does that on the Internet
>volunteering
>caring for my animals
>genuinely helping society
So you're saying you don't actually volunteer, care for animals, or help society? It's just talking up on the Internet, right? Keep coping, most office jobs that pay 80k+ are cushy as fuck, especially with work from home being so common now.

And FYI, lolita and any sort of fashion is largely detrimental to society. The fashion industry has some of the most exploitative practices out of every industry and runs on slave labor. It's undoubtedly worse if you buy from any taobao brands. Even "sustainable slow fashion" made by indie shops and tailors have some sort of horrific slave labor somewhere in the pipeline, unless they're making their fabrics 100% themselves or using artisan materials by other sustainable small businesses, which is highly unlikely. Fashion is also the most environmentally destructive industry by far, right after oil. If you really want to help society, get the fuck out of the fashion.

>>10867999
Generally lolitas are among the more internet and tech savvy type- similarly to how the average male redditor is probably some sort of above average earning, white collar American software dev, most lolitas likely fall under the same umbrella. It makes sense for most to be above average earners. Making 80k isn't easy but it's not impossible by any means as long as you're not a retard.

>>10868035
>So you're saying you don't actually volunteer, care for animals, or help society? It's just talking up on the Internet, right?

I was not talking about me??? I was saying that about >>10867995
I do all three of those things and I believe it offsets the environmental burden of being a part of this fashion. Can you say the same for yourself?

>>10868036
You’re completely delusional if you think owning pets or “volunteering” to help other westerners offsets buying clothes produced by Southeast Asian slaves being exposed to toxic chemicals and dangerous machinery every day to make your completely unnecessary clothing.

>>10868037
So by this same token, you are saying that people who are still in the fashion basically support those things right? Or if we stay in the fashion we can't possibly have any concern for the environment or foreign workers well-being? Lol this is so narrow minded

>>10868039
Most people in the fashion aren't virtue signaling about how they're better than people who make more money than them because they work 4 days a week and have a pet dog. You're insanely retarded.

>>10868039
Most people in the fashion aren't virtue signaling about how they're better than people who make more money than them because they work 4 days a week and have a pet dog. You're insanely retarded.

>>10868043

nta, but poor people will always see themselves as having the moral highground over wealthy people. In the West, people are poor because they're stubborn or lack ambition, not because they they're unfortunate. doesnt help that the other anon put a kind of "oh you must work so much that you're spending all of your time enriching mr shekelstein instead of helping your community or the heckin animalerinos" spin on it either

>>10868051
>In the West, people are poor because they're stubborn or lack ambition, not because they they're unfortunate.
I assume you mean Europe and not the US or Latin America. Third world countries over there.

>>10868001
I was seething at then for saying taobao is where its at

>>10868009
That I did

>>10868035
So do you have a source for your claim that literally all clothing is made with slave labor somewhere

>>10868051
100% true, so many poor people just have crab bucket mentality and basically can't be helped but nobody wants to hear it

>>10868067
My guess is they mean the poor Amerifags that cry over wasting their rent money on Shien hauls then demand that lolita brands make 8XL sizes and lower their prices to be on par with Shien.

>>10868051
>>10868075
nayrt, but what is your definition of poor anyway? I think that's relevant to the conversation because what I consider poor is a situation where people are not (or barely) able get their basic needs met in their current financial situation even if they only spend money on their basic needs. They're not able to spend money on a hobby. They can't start building a lolita wardrobe.
We might have people like that in our community if they built their wardrobe before they were in their current financial situation.

Poor is relative. I've heard people say that people are poor if their lolita budget is less than 150$ a month. imo you can absolutely build a wardrobe (albeit slowly) on anywhere between 50 and 150$ a month. Below that you're not necessarily poor imo (you might still have all your bills paid, have a full financial buffer and save some amount of money every month) but probably too poor for lolita.

>>10868000
enjoy being homeless once your parents die

>>10867967
Wow I could have typed it myself

>>10868001
She's probably seething because most handmade stuff is genuinely awful and the people making it are delusional about their abilities. I'm classic as well and I really love cute handmade stuff but it's so rare

>>10868051
Exactly. She's not poor because of legitimate circumstances, just fat, lazy, and entitled. If you can afford to work part time, have a moderately expensive fashion as a side hobby, and own pets, you're not poor, just stupid and lazy. She admitted it herself- no ambition, works a phone job for only 4 days a week, spends free time whining online and trying to make herself look good on anonymous basketweaving forums. I pity actually poor people, not the slovenly fat low IQ westerner who cries about how capitalism is evil and exploitative while pissing away her money every month on useless garbage.

With the decline of lolita over time, will old brand items become worthless or priceless? In 20 years, will anyone want our rags, or will there be a fiercely competitive market among whoever is left?
I could see it going either way. I have a feeling that taobao will dominate lolita and owning brand will become more and more rare as the number of lolitas grow. Or, everyone falls out of the fashion because brands die/can't produce anything appealing, and our once status symbols turn to dust.

>>10868218
Considering that the current Heisei boom made the secondhand prices of old otome brand pieces (Betty's Blue, which was a Pink House competitor) explode, I could easily see that to happen with Lolita too.

Lolita has taken a very dramatic plummet in popularity after the covid lockdowns. The zoomers that latched on to the lolita trend have the attention spans of a flea, they not only have quit lolita but they consider it cringe now.

You might say this was a good thing, but the chinese youths were sustaining the fashion for awhile and now they have lost interest. The chinese girls seem to have moved on to selkie style outfits for the next wannabe princess trend.

I am a little worried about the fashion, and it is slowly losing its appeal to me. Nothing seems interesting, theres no new trends, just poor imitations of old ones. Angelic Pretty actively depresses me now.

>>10867189
>westerners generally arent too fond of hypergirly prissy outfits (especially the asexual kind) as everyday wear or simply cannot afford it.

Huge disagree with this point. The Barbie movie and brands like Selkie, IvyCityCo, LoveShackFancy, JessaKae are doing better than ever selling proofy frilly dresses to mormon moms, instagram influencers and disney adults. Western style is slowly accommodating hyperfeminine fashion.

>>10868256
>Angelic Pretty actively depresses me now.
Big same.

I find that a lot of lolitas I follow on social media seem less engaged as well. Like we're still kind of here, but on life-support.
I can tell Chinese lolitas have lost interest (or just already have everything they want) because there's zero scalpers for new release AP now, and even some secondhand items that would have been bought instantly in 2021, hang around for longer. It's not back to 2017, but it's an "improvement."
I feel like covid sped up everything bad that could happen to lolita - brand closures, manufacturing difficulties, rising prices of shipping (the death of epacket), everyone stuck at home that picked up a new hobby, clout-chasers destroying the secondhand market, and so on.

>>10868009
>>10868069
Ayrt and ok yeah this makes more sense, thank you. I just misunderstood.

I think taobao was very much a double edged sword for a lot of people- cheaper, more sizing, and more options with the quality suffering in exchange definitely lowers the overall quality of coords but in a way it also kind of weeds out the people who wouldn't have genuinely invested and kept the mindset most older Lolitas have about quality.

In general I feel like we are always pushed to consume more, buy more and rotate our dresses out secondhand rather than enjoy what we actually do have, though. (And God forbid you modify something- pieces are just expected to be public property.)

If anything I think it's just the comparison game that makes people sink to taobao because they feel like they're playing catch up, even when none of the pieces actually wholly make them happy. I'm really hoping DIY resurges in interesting and fun ways, so seeing people use taobao for materials more than mindless consumption is a net positive for me.

>>10868192
Ayrt and you're right it is rare, but I would honestly rather people put in the effort to try than to just get garbage off taobao and call it a day. Even if it turns out to be shit it's plain to see the difference when someone is putting in effort to making a main piece and failing from shit taste and when someone asks on bsolf if devilinspired is a reliable website for the thousandth time, doesn't care to learn, and buys garbage then posts to cof with "no concrit pls". Maybe I'm just extra jaded by taobaolitas over handmade. I feel like at least the handmades dont shit up every group they're in as badly because there's not as many of them.

>>10868324
i won't lie, taobaolita feels like a handicap for coords. the quality is always so low that even a theoretically well coordinated outfit still looks like shit.

>>10868324
>If anything I think it's just the comparison game that makes people sink to taobao because they feel like they're playing catch up


I've noticed this mindset with some lolitas. They think if they have fewer pieces than others, or don't have certain pieces, that makes them inferior. Comparing themselves (and their wardrobe), even to the point of feeling like they're in competition with other lolitas, is always a bad thing imo. This leads to people buying certain items that they like (but don't love) just because those items are considered status/popular pieces. It's a waste of time and money imo. Just buy what you love. Like obviously I'm not talking about taobao specifically here, but things like specific jpn brand pieces, and stuff like kumya bags. With taobao it's more like people buying a lot of stuff, even stuff they don't love, just to have a large wardrobe and fill wardrobe gaps as quickly as possible. Some people have no patience and get basic stuff from taobao as "stand in" pieces, so they can wear the coord, and will continue to look for the jpn brand version of that item they really want. I'm not harshly judging this though, I get it you want to wear the dress but don't have the patience to wait until blouses or accessories pop up so you get taobao instead.

>>10868344
The only times I've seen it work were with extremely simple pieces, which a lot of people just don't want. Flashier =
Better for a lot of newbies in the fashion. A lot of Lolitas want to have the bubbly sweet ap aesthetic but they don't want to pay the price for the genuinely good popular secondhand prints, or simply don't have the income for it. Instead of the compromise being to save, or to go simpler, taobao almost in a way preys on that desire. Like >>10868426 said, getting stuff you don't love just to keep up or fill a void is a real problem, but at least jp brands have resell value. Taobao is basically just flushing your money down the drain for what is almost always a subpar and uncomfortable product that isn't as advertised. I have problems with a lot of jp brands but at least they aren't quality problems.

Unfortunately I dont really know how to remedy this issue and it seems more and more people are shilling for taobao when I really do not think it is a good choice for new members of the community. I feel drowned out by a lot of the larger voices in many Lolita spaces.

I think this problem will continue and ultimately because Lolita is/was a fad in China, the market is going to become more and more unsustainable with that loss of interest, and it will impact Japanese brands too, unless they adapt once again.

>>10868591
You hit it right on the nose when you mentioned people buying stuff to fill a void.

In this community and the bjd community we always strongly express just saving money and purchasing something you love, something you will want to keep for a long time.

But people just buy because its popular or they need to partake in the hobbies NOW. Ultimately they make a ton of regrettable purchases and are delusional enough sometimes to think they can make that money back or more.

Why on earth would I buy your "tried on once" but somehow smothered in cat hair op for 350-400 dollars when a brand new one is still available for 325 in store?

Why would I buy your botched faceup fairyland chloe for 600 dollars when I can buy a new one for about $375 to $400?

>>10868426
I think it's also important to remember that a lot of these wardrobe tours and people with expansive closets have most likely been in the fashion for over a decade without hiatus.

And I also feel like they have this fear of re-wearing something to a meetup. Like they have to have something new everytime?

>>10868595
>hiatus
How do you take a hiatus from being in lolita other than selling your wardrobe and starting again later?

>>10868595
Ayrt, and it definitely took me years to get my closet close to what I wanted it to be. With lolita you can't just throw money at it (although it does help to have a generous budget), because you're mostly just waiting until that item you want is either being sold in store or pops up second hand. Enthusiastic newbies either don't have patience or don't know exactly what style they want, so cheap taobao seems like a good option to them. How often is it that we come across a lolita who is a genuine big fan of one specific Chinese brand in the same way we see lolitas love a specific jpn brand? Doesn't happen nearly as often. And when it does it's usually a brand with prices that come close to jpn brand prices. No, most lolitas who claim to love taobao, even the ones who claim they don't like jpn brand aesthetics, have no specific brand in mind. It's about price, variety of size and the sheer amount of items available for direct purchase to them.

And indeed some lolitas are bothered by the idea of being seen in the exact same outfit more than once at meetups or even just seen posting a coord picture with the exact same outfit. But especially with the more daily lolitas, even the ones with huge closets, that is unavoidable. We need to get over that feeling. I have it too, and just like others who feel the same I have the urge to explain why it's the same outfit. Or notice that there's pressure to wear (more special) brand pieces just because you have them, so you feel the need to explain why you're wearing mostly offbrand for an outing with friends when you're not sure if your outfit will stay safe/clean. I still wear what I want and what I know is the right choice, so I wear the outfit I've already worn in the past, or choose offbrand for an occasion when I'm not sure how safe my outfit is, but I notice other lolitas apologise or explain when they do those things, and I recognise the pressure to always have something new to post.

>>10868597
When people use the term hiatus in lolita fashion it can mean several things. Sometimes it just means taking a break from wearing lolita, other times it can include taking a break from the online community, shopping, etc. It can include selling part of a wardrobe. When people sell their entire wardrobe they don't tend to call that a hiatus though, but rather "leaving lolita ".

>>10868594
This is the exact mistake I made coming into the fashion and I regret it so much now. On the plus side since I spent so much I actually do have favorite taobao brands like >>10868599 points out

>>10868601
I was thinking if someone "left lolita" by selling their wardrobe but then came back then they didn't really leave in the end so they'd consider that their hiatus?

I guess though as someone who isn't into posting online about my lolita and doesn't have a comm I didn't consider the online and community aspects as much. Thanks for the perspective!

>>10868614
I left lolita, sold most of my wardrobe, kept the stuff I was too tired to sell or didn't want to part with, and then came back years later. I consider that a hiatus because I always thought I wanted to come back to it.

>>10868426
>>10868591
>>10868594
My lolita origin story is that for my first dress, I was debating between buying something from Chess Story (cheap) or something directly from Angelic Pretty (something I actually wanted). I went with AP because I realized the Chess Story dress would only fill a void and it would actually be a waste of money. Spending $300 as an entry point to the fashion was sort of scary, but I'm so glad that was the choice I made. If I had bought the Chess Story dress, I would have eventually bought the AP one anyways, so why not just go straight to the source? I never looked back. I've been a brand-buyer since.

>>10868661
who fucking cares. what a useless post.

>>10868591
i just don't see an excuse for it-- i recently had to build a wardrobe from scratch and what i couldn't afford new, i could almost always find something comparable secondhand, without ever touching non-brand unless you count smaller japanese brands like melody basket (i don't because they've worked with misako)

it took patience, combing through listings and waiting for the right thing, and sometimes i sacrificed a shot at a fancy piece because i knew a simple staple item was more useful, but the reward was obvious. even my worst beginner coords never wound up in an ita thread.

i think maybe the problem is people really want to dive directly into hard flashy OTT lolita, but the reality is unless you're rich enough to buy a wardrobe all at once, you're better off starting with more casual coordinates and working your way up as you expand your wardrobe

>>10868599
can confirm as a lifestyler i have a selection of ETC pieces i use for when i'm not 100% certain my outfit is safe from the elements.

>>10868695
>unless you're rich enough to buy a wardrobe all at once

nayrt but it's not even a money thing. Even if you have an unlimited budget you'll still have to wait for something to appear new in store or second hand just like everyone else. Everything I like on btssb's online store is sold out. It would be impossible for me to buy an entire wardrobe within a short amount of time, with items I liked, with what's available in store and second hand right now. I knew a lolita with rich parents, who got to use daddy's credit card with a budget of thousands of dollars a month, and it took her almost a year to buy a wardrobe.

>>10868697
>a selection of ETC pieces
NICE

>>10868193
>>10868668
kek you guys are insane. After seeing the type of women that browse on here it makes sense that's so many of you are ugly or dress badly.

>>10868721
It's no surprise CGL has some of the most insane lolitas amongst its regulars, but calling them ugly or badly dressed just because you disagree with them is the lamest comeback you could think of. It's completely ineffective. Try again.

>>10868699
they hold up extremely well to everyday wear and because of the simpler design they're easier to wash and maintain than fancier pieces. i've heard some people criticise ETC and MB for being priced the same as more elaborate brands while being simpler, but the quality is absolutely there. can't recommend them more for daily lolitas.

>>10868698
i guess taste is also a factor. i've been lucky enough to get a lot of things i want fairly quickly, but that probably indicates my taste isn't what's popular

>>10868728
It's not a comeback it is simply a fact. Now seeing what a lot of gulls look like and how they behave it's hard to take these sperg posts seriously.

>>10868740
>what a lot of gulls look like
what are you basing this on?

>>10868661
I liked your post anon, you made the right decision with your first dress

>>10868740
Lmao, speak for yourself. I’m cute, thin, and have a huge wardrobe. Besides, uggo fatties tend to make specific whiteknight posts- look at the ita thread.

>>10868810
Your opinions are subjective. You call yourself cute and an ita can do the same but are you really though?

>>10868810
But you're still a sperg anon and as we know that even if you dress ok you'll still be made fun of for being a sperg.

>>10868748
Nta but after a while you get a feel for who in the community comes here or they just outright say they do. Most of them dress like crap, are fat, crazy, etc.

>>10866748
Lolitas of Cringe, it's just a cult of lolitas who like trolling

>>10868846
Nayrt but I absolutely have people call me cute. I've never once been posted to the ita thread and have been wearing lolita consistently for several years.

Stop projecting your shitty taste and ugly appearance onto others just because they hurt your fee fees

>>10868878
Have you ever thought that maybe only the retarded itas are the ones stupid enough to actually admit or reveal that they come here? I've never once talked about cgl IRL because of the stigma.

>>10868893
what is it? a discord server?

>>10868748
Nta but draw threads, self posts, people outing themselves...

>>10868878
i got the impression most gulls have garbage taste after asking gulls in a cof thread to point out coords they DO like and it was the fucking ugliest lineup i've ever seen in my life. the blind lead the blind here

>>10868721
it's the poorfags and fatties who post here who are ugly and ita, get it straight nonny. picrel is the average entitled lazy gull who cries about being poor

>>10868913
A comm, a myth, a legend

>>10868748
And those "Anyone at the con wanna meet up?" And they hang out in an open room you can easily peer into.

>>10868894
You sound extremely insecure. Youre the only one that has to keep reassuring themselves that theyre cute soooo.

>>10868893
They are extremely cringe, that's for sure

oh my fucking god stop derailing with this stupid bait garbage, I'm so sick of gulls taking the bait every single time, nobody gives a fuck whether you're an uwu cutie lolita

What do you guys see in shoe trends? A lot of people have been pushing sneakers and crocs and those ugly as sin bubble shoes. I'm all for advocating for more comfy footwear, but I don't think it has to be only flats to be comfortable. So many people have no idea how complex shoe fitment and make actually are, so they lean super hard into whatever's comfortable with the least effort. I think that trend will continue in general, not just applying to shoes.

>>10869038
Lolita sandals that don't look utter shit.

>>10869038
meta released shoes that had extended sizing beyond the LL=25.0~25.5jpn. I would like them to to continue, and for btssb to start doing the same. I usually buy a size 26.0jpn (can comfortably fit in 25.5 if they're wide enough, but you don't know that beforehand so I often go for 26.0 and if they're too long I just pad them) and would love to get btssb's shoes in size 26.

I just saw some lolita sneakers by sheep puff (a brand that makes shoe designs I often dislike) that I thought were actually cute, which is a first for me.

Last time I checked modo had a few styles that came in glossy/patent as the default. I thought that was pretty unusual for the specific shoe designs they chose it for. That aesthetic might spread to other brands.

Bodyline isn't going to do anything new with shoes I expect. If they restock at all it's going to be for a few designs only, and it will be sold out within a week.

I would love for btssb and other japanese brands to release actual leather shoes again, and in extended sizing (beyond 25.0~25.5), but I think that's never going to happen.

>>10869105
baby's releases from this year have included LL size

>>10868913
yes it's a discord full of mentally disabled terminally online itas, most in their 40s

>>10869109
btssb's LL size is 25.0~25.5jpn, they've been carrying that size for years afaik. It's not extended sizing in that sense.
Meta's shoes from this and last year had slightly different sizing, namely "size LL: 25.5cm [24 - 24.5cm]
size 3L: 26.5cm [25 - 25.5cm]

*The values in [ ] are actual measurement values that are the recommended size of the feet with our basic socks. The measurements are approximate and may vary slightly."
The insole length for meta's 3L shoes is bigger than btssb's LL shoes.

>>10869132
NTA but thank you so much for explaining this. I never realized it because I assumed they were relatively standardized but this finally explains why I always have so much trouble with sizing in brand shoes.

>>10869134
np, and it is confusing because the way btssb labels their sizing (they use the regular jpn sizing for reference) is different from the way meta labels their sizing, which is by stating the actual insole length in cm. Also instead of fitting a single size, btssb says their LL size will fit japanese sizes 25.0 and 25.5, meaning that if your japanese size is a 25.5 it's going to be a tight fit. This is the exact reason why I haven't bought btssb's shoes.
The insole length and the corresponding japanese size are not the same number. I think this is the root of a lot of confusion.
If I get a jpn size 25.5 the insole length will typically be 26cm, if I get a jpn size 26 it will typically be 26.5cm. This means there is 0.5cm ease (for movement, comfort). However not everyone will think that is comfortable and might require more ease. Average ease is usually 0.5~1.5cm depending on preference and the thickness of socks you usually wear.

Maybe a stupid question, but is old school anywhere near as trendy in Japan right now as it is in the west? The most I see is people wearing Baby's Classical series.

>>10869038
I'm seeing the bodyline RHS a bit less, I think people want more interesting shoe designs with the same sort of "wooden look" classic sole now. I've been seeing people wear Tokyo Boppers and Miho Matsuda shoes more often, along with actual VW RHS.

>lolita more popular than ever in the west
>/cgl/ at a historically low participation
>ita has become normal
>tiktok and instagram lolita influences shilling DI
>zoomers don’t even understand the difference between a blouse and a cutsew or an a-line and bell petticoat
it’s fucking bad

>>10869134
it's not even consistent with brand-- aatp and btssb are the same company, but i'm an L in baby and an M in aatp

>>10869038
>ugly as sin bubble shoes
Someone in another thread pointed out that they look like tumours and I can't stop thinking about it.

All the shoes you listed are so ugly and clash so hard with lolita, I really hope they don't become popular but people are so low effort nowadays I think they will. I've been eyeing off some brands like Fluevog, irregular choice and Demonia, I wish more detailed, quality, lolita appropriate shoes would become popular.

I'm also really loving all Taobao shoes with fancy little buckles all over them, I hope that catches on.

>>10869038
>ugly as sin bubble shoes
I have seen maybe one or two western lolitas wear these (and can't recall any jp lolitas wearing them in a coord, surely it exists i just haven't seen it yet) so despite being extremely popular in current jfashion I'm not sure if they will catch on in lolita, especially at the $300 pricepoint (let's be real, western lolitas are cheap). I like them but I don't think the original mikio sakabe ones work that well with lolita and the jennyfax ones are just ugly

I haven't seen anyone seriously trying to push crocs outside of a "My feet hurt so I'm wearing these instead of the actual lolita shoes I was going to wear"

>>10869236
I love my demonias but I'm not sure if it's just the models I get since im unlucky or what- they always seem to have some issue, whether it be decorative bowties undoing themselves or buckles not being adequate to hold the shoe in place so it slides around and damages itself, to the sewimg of the pleather creating a seam inside the shoe that pokes my foot throughout the day. Aesthetics wise theyre everything I could ask for but the little issues are so unfortunate.

>>10869260
Yeah I get the crocs but its the feet hurting part that makes me realize we dont actually have shoes that are designed in a way to be genuinely comfy. Tea parties offer no arch support/longevity. Rainboots are nearly non existent or in a very small size range. Winter boots are out of the question. Almost all the sandals I've seen are a bit off at the very least if not completely ugly.
I'm a lifestyler and I really want to see those comfort first choices, but I know the demand isnt there. Sorry for being longwinded. I know most people will just bring their shoes to the event and change but I just find it a bandaid since im not an event only lolita.

>>10869284
>but I know the demand isnt there

This is sadly true. I've been thinking a lot more about comfort since I've been wanting to start being a daily lolita again. Last time I was a daily lolita (years ago) I had chunky leather mary janes, I don't recall the brand but they were from a shop that specialized in alternative shoes and also very experimental designs. They only went with old school btssb in dark colorways. I don't think I've ever seen a white real leather shoe suitable for sweet lolita (other than lolibrary entries for old btssb leather shoes). I know it's not going to happen but I would love for btssb to relelease older shoe designs in real leather and with more size options. More leather bags too, and some old school friendly tote bags. I do have tea parties but I've fallen out of love with the design. They're too flat (no support) as well, which makes them uncomfortable for me. I suppose insoles could be an option to create more comfort. As for rainboots, I haven't given it much thought since I avoid going out in lolita if it rains anyway. I would probably not avoid it if I had rain boots, a rain coat and used an umbrella. btw I don't think those "rain or shine" umbrellas/parasols from btssb are really suitable to use in the rain. I know they're made for a dual purpose, but mine said "you have to wipe it dry as soon as you go inside, otherwise it's bad, yada yada yada". So I just use them as parasols and use an offbrand frilly folding umbrella for when I have to go out and there's a chance of rain.

>>10869143
Chinese girls got into old school before the idol lolita/very short skirt craze. Japanese lolitas only wear Baby’s classical series and don’t give much of a fuck about older pieces.

>>10869038
I want some decent colored pastel yellow shoes to match with.
THATS IT but for whatever reason the Chinese insist on using it on the ugliest lolita shoes.

>>10869332
have you looked at cotton candy feet?

>>10869295
I get what you mean non. White leather is hard in the first place because it takes a lot of bleaching and as a result you kind of have to start with a decent quality of leather iirc. Bags and totes would be great. I think I have an ap simple white umbrella but it rarely gets used since I reach for my Lumiebres most of the time. I'm kind of haphazard and shake off my umbrella before letting it dry and it seems to work without issue.

I also have a lolita raincoat, albeit offbrand from vcastle and I really do like it, but it's clear and sweet style so I find it quite weird to coordinate with, especially as my interest in sweet has dwindled over the years. I'd really like a stylish one for classic/gothic that reads lolita and can fit a big petti. I'm almost considering trying one of those "make your own garment" type commissions at this point, but I'm hesitant because quality is a huge factor- I don't really trust the services other lolitas have recommended and if I go to a seamstress outside of the lolita sphere I feel they won't really understand what I want.

In terms of rainboots I fell in love with picrel from fint but my feet are always too big for japanese brands.

>>10869364
Thanks anon. I think if I really dug around I might find a cute raincoat from a japanese non lolita brand. We might find a lot more practical items from cute japanese brands that don't cater specifically to lolita.

>>10869479
For sure. I consider stuff like this but know I won't be 100% happy with it even with modifications and it's just kind of a bummer.

>>10869589
if the color matched with my coord and there was enough hem circumference I wouldn't mind. But if you're not 100% happy with it then it would be a waste of money.

>>10869174
I assume aatp is larger to accommodate the mens sized ouji stuff that uses a lot of the same blouses

>>10869236
recently fluevog has some amazing shoes for lolita, well worth saving for, and yosuke is criminally underrepresented.. I get that it's a pain to order shoes through a shopping service but damn. they're better than demonias, way cuter, and are very reasonably priced.. I picked up two pairs for 3000 yen and one was too small but it gave me an idea of their sizing and I resold locally for $50 because they're so unique people love them..

>>10869611
I think Atelier Pierrot often stock Yosuke shoes, just they don't tend to stock them on their international website

>>10869608
she's talking about shoes...jp shoes sizes have absolutely zero consistency. they can accommodate somtimes 3 half sizes and you're expected to wear inserts with them and deal.

>>10869594
Yeah I mostly wear reds/pinks/blacks so blue isn't really in line with my wardrobe. It's pretty but it's not for me.

>>10869611
Are Yosuke shoes not widely available online? They have a few shops in Tokyo with a big selection of designs and sizes. I’d offer to be a shopping service but with the influx of inexperienced and impatient newbies, I’d rather not deal with the headache that comes with those kinds of lolitas

>>10863990
I really want a classic revival. I actually really like IWs recent releases but barely anything hits the actual storefront and it's all mostly poly or poly lined. On top of having less accessible pricing and sizing I think you're right and it's really depressing. Unironically one of the best choices meta has made to stay afloat is cater to westerners and offer larger sizing and I wish it was possible for fully classic brands but it's most likely just not in the budget for them to take the risk. I love old MM and VM but realistically not even Japanese Lolitas will fit that shit when their metabolism slows down. I love tailored pieces but when charging that much buying something that doesn't even fit my boulder ass shoulders feels like such a waste.

>>10870661
Actually in a recent post on FB there was someone sharing perspective on plus sizes and it sounds like it actually costs meta more to cater to plus sizes. They've stopped doing the "plus plus" option completely bc they weren't selling enough to make the expense of offering it worthwhile. It sounds like they could stop offering the plus sizing as well if the market for it doesn't improve.

>>10870661
A lot of VM's recent releases have shirring that goes up to around 100cm bust, so I think they are trying to expand their sizing to accommodate more people.

That said, I don't think that their old 90/70 sizing is unsustainable for Japanese lolitas. It's basically a size L by their standards.

>>10870680
the problem is, as much as people complain and demand brands release plus size pieces, they don't buy them. atepie did a whole interview on the topic. western markets by and large claim they would buy plus size pieces if released and then don't follow through.

i suspect it's because a lot of the people pressuring brands to cater to their size range don't actually have brand money and only intend to get these pieces if they end up on secondhand markets for cheap. which, of course, doesn't happen, because no one's buying the dress firsthand.

anyway this isn't a sustainable marketing strategy, and with lolita brands going under left and right these days, no brand is going to bleed money making dresses that don't sell.

honestly, i suspect the sudden increase in plus size releases was to gauge if there was a market for that, because the internet made it seem like there was, and a wider market would improve the stability of these brands.

i suspect some of the mid-popularity brands like atepie may be more at risk of going under than they'd like to admit, and you'll notice huge brands like AP and Baby aren't doing the same.

tldr: fatty-chans baited brands in a failing market into a risky move then didn't deliver, now are mad brands are outright saying that if sales don't improve, they aren't going to keep burning money

>>10870661
VM has been releasing bigger sizes, but their quality has tanked. MM's quality is still solid, but their most recent rereleases were smaller than previous ones. IW's L size usually fits up to 95-100cm bust and a 37cm shoulder, which is generally a reasonable japanese "plus size", but i agree the poly is insane given the pricing.

i also kind of hate their system of everything-is-preorder only. i get that they're doing it to avoid overproducing and going under since the pandemic nearly killed the brand, but it also means every release is essentially a bloodbath unless it's the most boring piece ever.

i also wish they'd release short versions again. some of their dresses are gorgeous, but i'm not sure i want to commit to buying a new extra long petti just for one or two pieces

>>10870685
Yep, exactly. The fb post I mentioned was from the AtePie rep (Connie, I think?). It's def a misperception that plus sizes are saving Meta since, like you said, a lot of them don't buy the dresses they claim to want.

>>10870685
Fuck the fats. They will be the cause of death for some brands. They virtue signaled to get bigger sizes and didn’t buy them because they were too busy pissing money away on food and cheap plastic shit. This makes me so angry. I don’t want to hear another fat cry about not being able to wear lolita because it isn’t SiZe iNcLuSiVe. Brands bent over backwards for them and the ham planets didn’t buy a damn thing.

>>10870704
honestly trying to cater to the western market was always a mistake.

people like this have this sense of entitlement-- everything has to be available to them, even if they don't even want it and have no intention of actually using it. it's easy to whine and use perceived exclusion to fuel a victim complex but if the change they're calling for requires them to pay a cent more or put in any effort they fold instantly, then claim the brands trying to cater to them are classist for not making the items $20

and when the item IS $20? suddenly it's "why are all plus size friendly items so cheap and poor quality"

some brands have tried to go halfway by having fully shirred pieces with 20cm of range or adding unnecessary shirring to blouses, but that mostly just makes the dress look worse on everyone, especially the fatlitas. seriously, nothing makes a dress or blouse feel like a cheap costume than 50 elastic bands wrapped around your chest and arms, and nothing makes fat look worse than being squeezed and vacuum sealed by elastic. genuinely a lose-lose all around.

but yeah. if brands like atepie and meta go under or take a nosedive in quality over this issue, you'll know exactly who to blame.

>>10870685
>>10870704
Nah, the actual piece atepie chose to make plus, the corset skirt, has some pretty fatal flaws for overweight people. Sizing issues aren't the only problem. The boning on the corset is plastic, and usually the way overweight people carry weight is not flattering to that "hourglass" shape (that corset pieces TRY to do) without something to actually pull the fat in. Aside from that its not even "hourglass" shaped- there was a thread where everyone basically concluded that the corset part of that skirt is cut in such a way that it's unflattering even on smaller frames and looks fridgelike.
Add to that the materials not being breathable and people 180 pounds plus are not going to be comfortable or happy in it. The range of sizes they provided is also kinda crazy and in reverse made their job harder.
I think it's more of a case of not actually understanding the target audience but trying to make pieces to cater to them. Yes, less westerners are committal about buying pieces, but plenty of mtos and such have sold well when the western community requested it.

>>10870725
they also did a very versatile and honestly pretty flattering cutsew release in pink, black, and white (to appeal to any substyle) and had the same issue: no buyers.

this is what i'm talking about: there's always some excuse.

>>10870680
Ayrt and yeah I do think the plus plus is overkill. At some point it becomes completely unsustainable. There's somewhere between "unshirred 65cm waist" and "big enough tarp to conceal a vehicle underneath" that seems like a somewhat reasonable request though. Classic in particular really likes adding the tiniest bit of back shirring if any at all, and while I understand the desire for tailored looking clothes it often does lock out foreigners not just because they're fat but because the pattern is not designed for westerners.

>>10870684
Yeah I appreciate VM expanding their range a bit for sure. Although their quality has been suffering a bit for some releases it's nice to see a reasonable addition that I feel like doesn't take away from the look or feel of the garment.

>>10870686
I've definitely jumped on the long petti train and don't regret it, especially as I get older I find myself gravitating towards tea length more and more and finally understand the appeal.

>>10870726
Except even on the model it looks sad as hell non. Tell me, even if this was your only option would you buy it?

>>10870684
90cm garment bust is around a Japanese size M if am not mistaken. You need to be a few cm under the garment bust to fit comfortably.

>>10870721
Full shirring has historically been the only option fat Japanese lolitas had as well. Sadly though, and I'm sure I'm not the only person with this opinion, full shirring only looks cute on people who are close to the minimum measurements for the piece. Bigger than that and it will get the strung ham/tied up roast meat effect.

>>10870680
Fat people in my comm have actually bought plus sized from meta directly, but none did the same for atepie.

But I believe you that meta's plus sizes are unsustainable.

>>10870728
nothing pleases you hamplanets, just like i said.

>>10870727
maybe i'll pull the trigger, what brand do you recommend for longer pettis?

Am I the only one that enjoy the vintage design direction that brands like AP and IW are going for classic and sweet? You know, with longer lenght for dresses, more solids, and with vintage inspired features.
I'm just sad that nu-AP quality is trashbag tier tho.

>>10870734
Nta, I have a long petti from Aurora and Ariel that is good for holding up even heavy fabrics like velveteen.

>>10870728
I wouldn't buy it either but I'm not into that style. Most fat lolitas are into sweet so I'm not surprised atepie has a hard time with the plus sized releases. However what does irk me is that many people said they would buy it, and then didn't follow through. They just want everything available to them regardless of if they're actually going to buy it or not.
Meanwhile I rarely see anyone in maxicimam, whilst they have their larger sized lines. And pretty reasonably priced too. Some of the blouses look really good and are like 100$~120$. I wonder why people don't flock to them.

>>10870748
Most fatties harassing brands to cater to them never actually plan on buying from them, they're just deeply insecure and want to be validated.

>>10868730
MB is Melody Basket, but what is ETC?

>>10870751
emily temple cute

>>10870661
>>10870735
I really like a lot of IWs new releases too and I pray for a classic revival but I really hate polyester. The longer length classic dresses are so flattering on normal sized people who maybe don't have perfect bodies anymore

>>10870748
I think the "problem" with Maxicimam is that their designs (and website honestly) seem to be stuck in the mid-2000's.

>>10870729
No, 90 garment bust is a size L for a fitted bodice. A size M would be 86-88. The screenshot I posted was garment measurements from Uniqlo Japan.

>>10870755
>I think the "problem" with Maxicimam is that their designs (and website honestly) seem to be stuck in the mid-2000's.


haha, yes, especially the website. But you can also buy through CD japan. I had a look a few days ago because I had money to burn and really liked the blouse that wonder tea party showed. But it was too big.

But there are some fat people into old school, so I wonder why I never see them in Maxicimam. They have some designs that I think are tacky, but also some really good basic stuff (blouses, solid skirts, petticoats, headdresses, tote bags, there was even a pretty nice jsk) imo.
I sometimes hear the complaint that too many fat people are into old school. But obviously not into maxicimam then.

>>10869364
I have a raincoat from Jane Marple that might fit what you're looking for (big hood, pleated skirt that can fit a big petti). Unfortunately its a half-zip (so half to take it on/off over my head) but I'm happy any time I have an excuse to wear it since its such an elegant and striking coat by itself.

>>10870728
The fuck is it supposed to look like? Do you expect plus sizes to look the same as straight sizes when they're worn by bigger people?

>>10870728
I’m not plus size but I think she looks cute.

>>10870781
>>10870795
The main problem I and many other people have with items that are technically plus size is that they size up a pattern for smaller women without actually considering where fat builds. This means that while you can buy something that should technically fit, it can be too loose in the back and tight in the chest, loose in the waist and tight in the hips, etc. It will be a straight cut garment only designed if you are fridge Or man shaped. Or something will technically fit in bust and waist but the arm measurements will be suffocating. Again, it's just a brand trying to cater to an audience without actually having anyone from that audience helping with design, or not having the knowledge of what they should be adjusting.
My problem with even the stock photos is that they don't seem to have considered that where the bust lays on the model makes the design above it look strange. Her boobs look like an afterthought. Also, keep in mind that the two things they released in plus size also dont really go together.

>>10870760
I actually really like MAM and own a few pieces from them. I just think they don't appeal to print loving sweets which is most sweets let's be real. Babys classic line is doing great but it's also because they're baby.

>>10870734
I have a melikestea that does the job fine and also a longer cage from f+f that's decent but requires an underskirt. My old shorter ones are from classicalpuppets so I can't attest to Aurora Ariel but I've heard good things.
>>10870735
I love the direction IWs solid OPs have gone. They're simple but so elegant.
>>10870753
Same, I can't stand polyester. No matter how fancy it always feels like slick trash bag. My pet peeve is something being made of cotton but lined with poly. At that point I would rather take it without the lining.
>>10870770
Thanks for the recommendation non I'll check it out!

>>10870806
baby's rereleases of old school solid color designs are doing great but unless they get full shirring it's not going to fit most plus sized people. It can't feel very good (emotionally) to only have fully shirred dresses and blouses.

>>10870806
funnily enough just as i posted this i checked the plus size groups and theyre all raving about it. People are clearly buying it, lmao

>>10870806
so you want brands to bleed even more money making fattychan exclusive designs when you didn't even want to buy their sized up pieces? delusional, get into handmade or shut up.

>>10870685
>>10870748
Marble makes LL sized blouses and doesn't seem to be struggling. Though maybe they are struggling and just aren't saying shit. Marble's sizing is all over the place though.

>>10870849
marbles designs are ugly as sin though

>>10870854
Marble's main pieces are ugly but their blouses are nice in person. They're just shit at making nice stock photos.

>>10870834
That's not even remotely what I said but OK. Not sure how you got that from "making plus sizes is difficult for these reasons"

>>10870860
your complaint is that the items are sized up versions of their usual items, and not custom designed for plus size customers. are you expecting totally alternate designs for the XL size?

>>10870878
that’s what most xl pieces are. do you know anything about fashion design?

>>10870878
Nayrt, but you can't just blow up the size M pattern into a plus sized pattern and expect it to fit. You need someone who knows how to translate regular size patterns into plus size patterns.

>>10870882
okay, if that's already the case, then what are they complaining about? the plus sized atepie and meta releases look fine in my opinion.

but that's not really the issue here. the issue is: western customers repeatedly requested these releases and replied to interest checks, then didn't purchase the release when it came out.

i wouldn't be annoyed by it if it was a random cash grab attempt that bombed. but it wasn't, this was a brand responding to a customer request, and then customers not following through, thus hurting the brand and damaging the chances for future plus size releases.

i'm sorry the burundo selection isn't super wide right now, but the reality is that if you want that to change, you have to actually buy some of the early releases. when a brand reaches out like this and you scoff at it because it isn't the precise design you had in mind, this tells them two things:
1. there isn't a market for plus size releases
2. western customers are unreliable and our requests are not financially responsible to listen to.

it certainly isn't going to encourage them to keep releasing more just for them to flop.

on that note: considering two of the more well known plus size brands (violet fane and lady sloth) closed this year, i can't help but wonder if they had similar issues with cost of production vs actual plus size customers.

>>10870806
>Her boobs look like an afterthought
Maybe she’s just too fat for the cutsew? Have you thought about that? Even thin girls constantly have sizing issues, it’s not a plus size thing. Compare IW with MM- most of IW’s pieces are cut to accomodate a flat chest, while MM is designed for thin hourglass figures. You can’t expect everything to fit every body shape perfectly without tailoring

>>10870728
It looks good here. I think they laced the back too tightly for the white.

>>10870806
>The main problem I and many other people have with items that are technically plus size is that they size up a pattern for smaller women without actually considering where fat builds.
Are you implying the smaller sizes also fit everyone? If the model had smaller breasts it would fit fine. Lolita doesn't fit anyone with any kind of breasts and many jp/asian plus size lolitas are shaped more like a big tube and don't carry weight in their breasts even when overweight. Clothing is made for the AVERAGE person, including plus size clothing. Even in the west you don't get things that aren't shaped for people outside the average. You're being unreasonable here.

>>10870728
>>10870932
the only issue i see here is the model's bra. she needs something a bit more supportive to make her breast area more smooth. the cut is also not really flattering for anyone with any breasts at all(even a tiny girl) because the pintucks end over the breast area.

>>10870936
>>10870937
nta but agree-- even thin lolitas have boob problems because the majority of brands design with a small or flat bust in mind. asian women tend to have narrower ribcages, so that makes sense. same reason japanese bra band sizes go down to 28in. western lolitas in general are going to be prone to this issue. it's a reason sports bras are so popular.

that aside, i honestly think this cutsew looks fine in the black stock image and woukd look great on the model if she wore a jsk rather than a skirt. but i'm also of the opinion most cutsews don't look great in skirt coords outside of casual because of how the material lays

>>10870932
>>10870936
>>10870937
>>10870952
Boobs are the biggest struggle in lolita. The only boob-flattering cut I can think of off the top of my head (as in one that's actually accentuated by having breasts rather than them being a detriment you work around) is Holy Lantern's zipper JSK and AP never made another print in that cut again despite its popularity.
We're just not the target demographic and I don't blame brands for not catering to us given how hard plus sized items have failed. For me I'm in that weird in-between sizes zone because of my boobs and I usually just order the standard size or look for cuts that are decently boob-friendly. Plus-sized tube bodices just make someone like me look really fat.

Do Japanese people even want us to wear lolita fashion? imho, if the majority don't approve or look down on us, then its alright if the lolita scene dies, sucks for them

>>10870967
why should Japanese people have to tolerate westerners appropriating their fashion? you sound super bitter and racist. If they don't want us here, we should make an effort to gracefully exit, not sit around sneering at them as if they're bad for not wanting cringey westerners

>>10870967
can you honestly look at the state of western lolitas and tell me you blame them kek

>>10870967
Does it matter? And who are you talking about just random japanese people? japanese lolita? people that run brands?

>>10870968
Lolita came from Western Victorian fashion to begin with. Talking about "appropriation" is retarded.

>>10870967
>>10870968
>>10870977

This might come as a shock but japanese lolitas tend to have a pretty idealized view of white lolitas in particular as far as I've seen them talk about the topic. It seems they tend to think we're more slender, more fashionable, taller, more elegant, and very specifically "more suited to the fashion" going so far as saying that japanese women just look weird and out of place with their flat faces, wide noses, short and stocky bodies and it's like they're playing princess dress up. Based on what they've said they're probably imagining a tall, slender, elegant young woman with pale skin, very long straight blonde hair and light colored eyes.
Maybe they know this is not representative of the western comm, maybe they don't. In the latter case I would say that mental image is probably caused by lack of interaction with the western comm. There isn't a lot of interaction between the two comms. They're also exposed to that idealized image of white women in japan.
Japanese lolitas who travel overseas, for example brand owners and models who visit conventions or lolita specific events, probably have a lot more accurate view of what western lolitas look like.

I've only seen a japanese lolita say anything critical about a western lolita once, and it was about a black lolita, something about her hair texture and skin color not suiting the fashion. As far as I've visited japanese lolita spaces online in the past it was obvious that they mainly talked about releases and events (just like the western comm does), and not about perceptions of foreign lolitas so these discussions would have been far and few between. More like a comment here and there. I'm also not on twitter (which is commonly used now by japanese lolitas) so maybe I really did miss some stuff but I doubt it.

As for the appropriation comment; lolita isn't a traditional japanese fashion. It falls under the umbrella of youfuku (meaning western style clothes).

>>10870997
Just as we have an idealized view of Japanese lolitas, they have an idealized view of us. Only the "good" western lolitas make it to their side of the internet just like how we mostly see good Japanese lolitas. There are badly dressed japanese lolitas of course but those images don't get spread around or posted as much as the good ones do. And photographers are going to choose pretty girls dressed well and put-together to take photos of, not itas.

They probably think western lolitas are all Fanny Rose-tier instead of the 10% good / 90% mess that we actually are.

>>10870932
>>10870936
>>10870952
>>10870966
Ayrt and no I'm not saying smaller sizes fit everyone, I'm just saying when you gain weight you're likely to also gain in the chest which a lot of brands dont accommodate for when sizing up. I know that Lolita is usually made for the tiny titty committee. Thats not the only measurement problem either though. It feels like they size up a tube instead of grading patterns to take into account how fat builds. Even vms recent plus size op was really nice but has no arm circumference listed, only cuff.

I understand it's not for all body types.
Yes Asian women build less boobs when they gain weight- (but not in arms?) a lot of these plus sized are being advertised to westerners so the same issue remains- not understanding the audience. Do I think it's a good idea to cater to western Lolitas? Not necessarily. But if you do and there's no understanding of how fat people actually look here they're just shooting themselves in the foot.
I understand the frustration of feeling like fatlitas complain and don't follow through- but how are they supposed to slam down new burando prices on something that still has no guarantee of fitting even being plus? Plenty of lolitas are secondhand onlys. Like you gulls say ultimately Lolita isn't made for westerners. It's understandable but still depressing. I answered that questionnaire. I listed these concerns. I dont know what more I could do. Maybe I am just an outlier and all fatlitas are stupid and don't want to commit like you say.

I just think this is really funny to me.
Some western lolitas think only Japanese lolitas should wear the fashion cause they look best in it. Some Japanese lolitas think that western loltias look more elegant in the fashion than them. Feels like a "grass is greener" situation where everyone is concerned about everyone else and not enjoying the fashion for themselves.

Also if the Japanese brands didn't want westerners to wear the fashion, why would they have made it so accessible to order from them? From brick and mortar stores in the US and Europe to international shipping, they made it so easy to access their fashion, to then say, "this is isn't for us, this is cultural appropriation," is a braindead comment.

>>10871000
i don't know how many times i can explain to you than western fans REQUESTED these releases and then did not buy them. you are acting like brands are just taking shots in the dark at appealing to fats. that's not the reality.

>>10871000
>they size up a tube instead of grading patterns to take into account how fat builds
Then why do so many fatties squeeze themselves into AP? If a regular sized AP dress is a tube meant to fit a smaller person with “less boobs” surely it wouldn’t suit a plus sized woman right? Oh wait, fatties would rather explode out of sweet prints than buy from brands that try to accomodate them. If we’re going off of what most plus sized lolitas wear, stretching out a smaller piece with a tube bodice and back shirring > fitting in a larger piece with a tube bodice and back shirring.

>>10870932
>>10870728
These designs are extremely unflattering desu, I can see why fatty-chans don't really like them

>>10870932
I think it's just not a good design for plus size/larger bust. The first issue is the yoke, it ends right at the fullest part of the bust and the square shape sort of cuts across the bust line horizontally.
The second issue is the princess seams, the way they curve over the bust just draws more attention to that area and also cuts each boob in half vertically in an unflattering way.
In my opinion a more flattering cut for plus size would use darts instead of those ugly seams, and a smaller rounded yoke that doesn't reach the bust line, or a simple collar and placket.

>>10871000

nice digits btw

>>10871194
Thank you for understanding
>>10871083
It's called desperation. When shit doesn't fit sometimes you really want to make it fit but ultimately it doesn't make me happy to squeeze into something and I know I look awkward, not to mention it's uncomfortable as fuck. I'm at the fairly low end of plus sized and feel this way. I don't know how others do it.

Lolita is not dead, but all the “women” who still wear it (ie: millennial whores in their 30’s) might as well have died when they hit THE WALL. Also: Need a gothloli resurrection or, better yet, an actual Victorian resurrection, please.

>>10871385

>>10870999
that's entirely untrue, especially with instagram. lolitas in jp make fun of our itas too.

>>10871399
And we make fun of Japanese itas - you're missing the point

>>10871401
no i'm not, your assertion that jp lolitas have an idealized view of western ones is wrong. maybe 10 years but not anymore.

>>10871425
It was in response to a post that literally said Japanese lolitas think white people look better in lolita

>>10871401
Not nearly as much as we make fun of our own kek

>>10871429
they don't. everything you're asserting is wrong. the lolita community, jp or otherwise, isn't a hivemind. you will find posts talking about how ugly white girls are in lolita because they are tall and manly compared to the japanese, and ones gushing about white girls looking like elves. there's no consensus just like we don't have one for jp girls.

I think the hivemind nature of lolitas is making things worse especially when it comes to discussion of quality. While things have gone downhill I think you should try to see things in person. I spent ages avoiding current moitie because of all the shit I heard about it but when I actually saw some pieces irl I changed my mind. I think there have been some major flops but most of the stuff I've gotten has been fine compared to my older stuff. I don't think its time to call it or other brands like VM dead yet and doing so will only kill them faster. AP is really fucked though lmao

>>10871732
i think the problem is wunderwelts product pictures make everything look 50x worse quality than it does IRL.

>>10871732
idk there's not that much of a hivemind when lolitas can't agree on a single thing other than nu-ap bad, general trend of price vs quality getting worse, etc. Outside here other lolitas disagree with even that. Gulls argue all the time about the most miniscule shit.

>>10871732
What recent moitie pieces would you say are fine compared to older stuff? Genuine question, I'd like to hold out hope.

>>10871732
I will second her >>10871782 question, as I've bought some stuff recently and, while they were not absolute trash as people often make them to be, they were still many steps behind the quality of old Moitie, and here I'm speaking about the quality of finishing, material and the overall cut of the piece. One good thing I can say, though, is that the printing process did evolve.

>>10871782
>>10871793
I worded my initial post poorly. It would be more accurate to say that while I don't think that their current quality is quite as good as some of their old stuff I don't think that the dip is massive especially when it comes to simpler pieces. I was quite happy with the recent cross jsk and the chandelier lace jsk as well as a few blouses (although that might be because my expectation for moitie blouses wasn't super high to begin with). Maybe the best way to put it is that I don't think the best of nu moitie are as good as best of old moitie but I think that there is a degree of overlap in the middle.
The biggest step down is definitely materials but thats kind of unavoidable given the current state of textile production so I can't really call it a brand specific issue.
>>10871753
They certainly dont help

>>10871889
i've been eyeing some of their cotton blouse releases, do you have any recommendations or pieces to avoid?

>>10871904
while I've been happier with the chiffon blouses the reverse cross puff sleeve blouse is decent. I don't love the buttons and the placket could use heavier interfacing but fabric and lace are quite nice. The cut is also nice, its comfortable, it looks good, and its a bit more fitted than the WW stock photos make it look. I should mention that I got it in black so I have no idea how opaque it is in white.

>>10871913
that's one of the pieces i was looking at! thanks

>>10863960
I know in Japan for a while I heard about the corset lacing hair and stuff in terms of hairstyling, what kind of hair do gulls think will become more popular? Lolita has had kind of a push for longer hair for quite some time but a part of me hopes for short (non boyish hair) to become more popular.

>>10872451
there's too much money in the hair extension industry for short hair to ever come back

>>10872451
long hair is the best or at least "easiest" hair for lolita because you need the volume/length of long hair to balance out the over-the-top-ness of lolita fashion. Short hair can and does work, I love a cute bob in lolita, but you get more versatility with long hair.

>>10872451
anything shorter than a bob is not going to work for lolita imo. I don't see pixie cuts becoming popular with lolita for example.

>>10872456
wut? short hair was never very popular in lolita, and lolitas aren't the market for extensions. most japanese and chinese women have thicker, denser hair (though japanese hair is thicker and denser), and if they don't change their natural hair they wear wigs. curly bobs are popular for lolitas in china too so you're even more incorrect.

>>10872492
oh yeah for sure im meaning like >>10872472
said, bobs , curly bobs, or even a bit shorter but something that frames the face really nicely. I think no bangs work well for long hair but if you're going short you kind of need them. Volume is definitely required more/more maintenance the shorter the hair gets.

Hey I might be autistic so sorry if this is obvious, but would you say the coord on the right is tightly fitted or ill-fitting? Is she too big for her clothes or just about right?

>>10872587
I meant the girl on the left sorry WOW im dumb

>>10872588
fellow autist, who cares and why are you asking on a thread that has nothing to do with this?

>>10872588
you're in the wrong thread but you're an autist so I'll forgive you with a light scolding to use the help thread next time - the bodice (aka top part) looks a little tight on her but it's not the worst. Could probably be fixed if she lowered the straps so it sat a little lower.

>>10872631
A little? It's making a sausage of her chest

>>10870728
what the hell is going on here? i love fat chicks, but they’ve done something to this woman that makes her torso look weird as fuck. i’m 100% certain that she would look better in any random bodycon dress. in this, she looks like a badly done drawing of a fat person.

>>10873130
she's just wearing a saggy bra imo

>>10872719
it's called "trying to be nice while still pointing out an obvious fit issue"

>>10863960
I WANT AN APPLIQUE REVIVAL
BRING BACK MILKY-CHAN
the wave of plain and simpler lolita is good but MAKE IT CUTE AND SIMPLE NOT SHITTY AP TRASHBAG "CHIFFON"

>>10873325
the appliqué is literally the lamest milky release sorry. can't even imagine how terrible it would look with todays quality. if we get milky, it's almost certainly gonna be the all over print, and it'll probably be on chiffon because their regular poly is worse and they'll die before making another good cotton print dress.

>>10873338
>they'll die before making another good cotton print dress.
Other than Honey Cake and Fantasic Dolly(?) I can't remember a cotton printed dress that was re-released in polyester, and none that were done in Chiffon when the original was cotton.

>>10873389
and how often do they do cotton print rereleases exactly?

>>10873414
From their golden era print rereleases, Sugary Carnival, Milky Planet, Toy Fantasy, French Cafe, Dreamy Baby Room, and Cat’s Tea Party all kept their original fabric. Only Honey Cake and Fantasic Dolly were rereleased in polyester. They only started rereleasing from this era in 2019.

For the solid dress MTOs from that era, Candy Fairy and Dream Doll used the same types of fabric. Nakayoshi Bunny didn’t use velvet but it was still cotton. The appliqué was still cute. If anything, a Milky Chan rerelease would be the same where they use cotton instead of corduroy, but I don’t think the applique dresses were popular enough for AP to justify bringing it back.

Out of their “newer” but still older prints, the multiple rereleases of Melty Berry Princess, Melody Toys, and Freshly Picked Strawberries were still cotton. Zero MTOs in chiffon other than Dream Marine, Misty Sky, and Holy Lantern, because the original was chiffon. Hope the spoonfeeding helps. You should use lolibrary.org, they archive almost every single AP a release.

>>10873421
my point was a maybe biannual cotton print release that isn't always a rerelease and is usually an MTO doesn't give people pulling for these rereleases good odds. personally i've found pretty much all the most recent cotton releases pretty uninteresting. they do factually release a ton of chiffon and rerelease chiffon prints way more often than cotton ones. check lolibrary yourself and then maybe get over yourself a little.

>>10873425
Sorry for listing out releases instead of pulling false information out of my ass. When have they EVER they rereleased a cotton print on chiffon exactly?

>>10873427
Yeah Anon from>>10873325
I just meant in general I hate poly chiffon not that it would be re-released in poly chiffon. Also appliques are great, shit taste >>10873338 if we are moving to simpler cuts and prints I want appliques more than these lame ass solids

>>10873414
They've done multiple in the last 3-5 years. Two for Toy Doll Box, Freshly Picked Strawberries, Sugary Carnival, Milky Planet, Dreamy Baby Room, Melty Berry Princess, French Cafe, Melody Toys too many times to the point everyone is sick of it, Toy Fantasy, Little Bunny Strawberry, Petit Bouquet, the jacquard on Melty Ribbon Chocolate and any similar releases is mostly cotton, special sets of things like Chocolate Rosette, and if you count patterns like Gingham as prints then multiple Shoulder Ribbon JSKs and Little House, among others.

>>10873427
you yourself admitted they've released a cotton print on poly at least twice.
it doesn't have to be chiffon but that's their most commonly used material by far these days. either way, the cotton releases have added up to maybe two a year since the pandemic. god you're such fucking spergs.

i honestly don't think there's going to be a milky rerelease at all. if there is, it's going to look like shit and disappoint everyone who wants it. is that precise enough for your retard brain?

>>10873431
wow like 10 releases in 5 years... that comes out to 2 a year like i fucking said. congratulations on your learning disability. now sit down land calculate the odds that one of those two releases will be the one you want and not one that's already been rereleased ad nauseam? oh they're not good? great you've absorbed my point.

>>10873442
All I did was correct your misinformation. AP primarily uses viera or regular non-sheer polyester, not chiffon, even recently. And there have been far more than 2 cotton print releases a year since the pandemic. There were at least 8 cotton prints in 2021. Once again you’re pulling shit out of your ass. You shouldn’t get mad at me because you were wrong. And I don’t care about Milky and never even mentioned it. It isn’t my fault you can’t comprehend talking to multiple people.

>>10873442
Calm down, dude.
Have you even bought AP's cotton MTOs? Sugary Carnival, Toy Fantasy, and Dreamy Baby Room were all pretty faithful to the originals (I know there's a few differences, but they aren't big enough to hate on). I actually think it's inevitable that Milky Chan gets rereleased or an MTO eventually. The price and popularity has remained high. And even though it's possible it could be on polyester, I doubt it. Milky Planet could have been on polyester too, but AP probably knew there would be massive outrage and no one would buy it.
I hate AP's new poly releases just as much as you. And I'm disappointed there haven't been cotton border print releases like in the past. But the one thing they've been doing right lately is keeping cotton for rereleases.

>>10873442
>you yourself admitted they've released a cotton print on poly at least twice.

That was me, not the ayrt here. And it seems like they did it twice early on and then immediately realized people preferred the same materials as the original and kept it that way since. Some solids had slight differences but in general the type of fiber stayed consistent. Brands only have so many re-releases a year that aren't recent popular prints, plus they have current/new stock to release. Even then AP is really running through old iconic prints so it's reasonable to expect them to keep it up since each time these MTOs are insanely successful. AP does more re-releases of old prints than any other major sweet brand.

>>10873442
Im going to come back and laugh at this comment very hard if milky chan does end up getting a cotton re-release.

>>10873464
i just don't think it's gonna happen. i love how people here are pretending i'm making shit up as if chiffon prints like misty sky or dream marine don't get multiple rereleases including ANOTHER this year while cotton prints are blatantly less common. i'm allowed to be sick of fucking fruit themes and i'm allowed to be sick of most of the new prints coming out on poly (grosgrain or chiffon since you faggots love getting hung up on the most autistic details)

lemme be autistic too: in 2022 we got 4 total cotton prints, including both rereleases and new. compare that to 12 chiffon and 15 non chiffon poly dresses and tell me again how i'm pulling this material bias out of my ass. most of the cotton seems to turn up in spring and summer collections, which also limits your options for prints to be rereleased

the cotton number goes up if you count solids, but it's kind of obvious most people do not care for nu APs solid lineup.

die mad about it i guess, but you're better off hunting for secondhand dresses than you are praying for a rerelease that's literally never going to happen. you are going to get another fucking round of misty melty dreamy sky and you are going to like it.

>>10873503
>die mad about it i guess, but you're better off hunting for secondhand dresses than you are praying for a rerelease that's literally never going to happen

That's what everyone said about Milky Planet and a ton of other re-releases though. If you're impatient and want to pay out the ass for old worn out brand that's fine, but some lolitas don't mind waiting to buy an item or even buy a backup or other colorway of a print they already own upon re-release.

>>10873503
So you admit you were wrong? AP releases more than 2 cotton prints a year and makes more non chiffon than chiffon? Using lolibrary is pretty easy, right?

>>10873514
ok just selectively ignore the actual point that "cotton is rare as hell at 4 out of 31 prints, and they evidently make as much chiffon as they do ALL other poly combined, and all of it looks like shit" and keep fixating on the precise number like a psycho if that makes you feel better.

>>10873511
i mean you're probably going to be waiting 5 years minimum, maybe more. do you even know if you'll still be a lolita then? do you know if APs release practices will even be the same by then?

you can wait if you want, but you might be holding your breath forever, that's all.

>>10871035
not necessarily a fattychan but my bone structure puts me into fattychan clothing. my waist to hip measurement differs by 15 inches. even if lolita brands started catering to "plus size", they're minimally increasing the inches of fabric rather than consider where fatties might be gaining weight. why the fuck would I buy fabric thats still going to be ill-fit and bigger by 8 inches? I can read by the provided sizing that the "plus-sized" clothing is still not going to fit or look proper on my body, even if it is now bigger.
this is the problem of lolita "plus sizing" their designs.
there are other WESTERN brands that tried to cater to the western market with +size that did the same. one of the more phenomenal failures is probably Target clothes where they just scale the clothing up. Abercrombie is a good success story when making a +line; despite the high buy-in price of their clothes, it sold well due to their remarkable consideration of these fluctuating sizes for women

>>10873515
All I did was repeat what you said. Why are you so upset about reading what you wrote?

>>10873521
hip size shouldn’t affect how lolita fits at all? except for bloomers i guess, are you wearing ouji or something?

>>10873517
>do you even know if you'll still be a lolita then
Kek yes I've been wearing it longer than that already. You sound like you have an obliterated milky chan you're trying to sell for $800 with how insistent you are that it'll never be re-released. I don't even want Milky-chan and am not wating for any print re-releases currently, but your dedication to the idea it will never happen is ridiculous.

>>10873525
no i mean it was an example of how drastic two measurements can be and why plus sizing is a retarded advertising label, and when done wrong, can be detrimental

>>10873521
>bone structure

>>10873536
Nayrt but large hip spring, meaning a large difference between waist and hip circumference, is usually due to bone structure. But I don't think this would be a problem for lolita, as you can put things on head first and the volume of skirts is big enough for large hips. I don't see why that anon would need to buy plus sized clothing if it was just large hips. Something else is probably also big.

>>10873540
Nta but its bust for me lol, not a single dress cut looks flattering on huge tits from jp burando. Skirts for me it is.

>>10873542
recently at my big age my boobs decided to grow 2-3 sizes and I'm furious. I've even lost weight on my waist and NO I'm not pregnant just extremely mad. I feel your pain.

>>10873517
>waiting 5 years minimum
Challenge accepted. Some dream dresses take years to find, so 5 years doesn't even phase me. The mark of a strong lolita is patience.

>APs release practices will even be the same
Lowkey the one fear I have is AP going out of business before they get around to a Milky Chan MTO. Like maybe they'll run themselves into the ground with the 70th Petite Heart and Melody Toys MTOs.

>>10873498
>inb4 AP's release this weekend is Milky Chan

>>10873526
people have been pining for it for years and it still hasn't happened. it also regularly pops up on LM for $300-$400 and goes unsold. value will probably continue to go down. i don't own or want it myself, but it's kind of sad watching people "next week for sure" like this, especially when other prints are rereleased over and over and over gives a vibe that there's only a set selection they intend to rerelease. i have some old, old prints i would die to see remade, but after 15+ years there's a point where you get realistic and have to decide if it's worth fixating on.

>>10873546

this is another issue. the AP thread gets into this more, but there's been a distinct change in the direction the brand has been going. it's possible eventually they wont be catering to the AP golden age stans later down the line if they stay around.

another issue people forget: brands are terrible at archiving their own prints. sometimes if a print never gets a rerelease, it's because the print file has been lost to time, or because the designer behind the print left the brand and using it could cause IP issues. some brands have outright admitted that certain prints cannot be rereleased for this reason. sometimes dress patterns are lost in similar ways, and a print can only be rereleased in a different cut, too.

>>10873546
>maybe they'll run themselves into the ground with the 70th Petite Heart and Melody Toys MTOs
can the 69th MTO be the non-shit cut of Melody Toys ffs

>>10873536
shes probably talking about her shoulders.

>>10873568
i have broad shoulders at a normal BMI and above average height and i definitely don’t need plus size clothing. my blouses and ops fit too tightly at the sleeves if i gain a bit of weight though, moreso than shorter girls with small frames. but again, not enough to need plus sizes

>>10873571
sadly your experiences are not universal. NTA but also tall with a healthy bmi and there's a few brands where i'm an L-XL in the shoulders but an S-M everywhere else. asian brands tend to be built for narrow shoulders, so even a 36-38cm shoulder can sometimes land you in "plus size" territory unless you like only owning JSK and skirt coords or the occasional fully shirred piece. especially if you have any kind of bust volume (for example, hourglass body types have both broad shoulders and larger busts while still needing a smaller waistline), because that can and will take room away from the shoulders.

even then you're often SOL because something fitting in the shoulders while being baggy everywhere else isn't cute.

>>10873544
mine did this too and I'm livid. I'm trying to lose a bit of weight but I didn't really gain any to begin with, I wonder if I'm just getting older.

>>10873536
moid or retard?

>>10873568
>>10873571
the point is that “plus size” shouldn’t be a general label that sizes the overall item up because a lot of girls who are “plus size” deal with intense measurement differences, not being “big”. if a company releases a plus size line that is just scaling their current items up by 4, 8, whatever inches it still wont sell to the demographic of the “plus size” market

>>10873613
>>10873613
but a larger plus size item would fit better than a too small item that has the same problems? if you’re fat, which most plus size lolitas are, it would better to buy a properly sized dress with fit issues than a too-small dress with fit issues. it’s also far easier to take in items than to modify them larger.

and normal weight girls can deal with fit issues as well if they have large busts, broad shoulders/ribcage, or are very tall. they either modify their clothes or limit themselves to shirred items. compare them to short fatty-chans who can squeeze into unshirred AP, despite being visibly overweight. non plus size girls don’t all have the same body type

>>10873616
>short fatty-chans who can squeeze into unshirred AP, despite being visibly overweight

man am i just cursed? i am 5'2, chubby (around 145) but cannot fit into most unshirred AP due to my bust and upper arms. even at 120 pounds i struggled with my chest and arms.

>>10873616
can you read my original post instead of arbitrarily argue extremely easy and general points? yes, you’re correct on all fronts when talking about fatties should get bigger clothes and bring it in, the problem is that the industry of plus sized is a hard market and when you’re doing a lazy plus sized lolita release and just upsizing your clothes you will not interest the demographic that actually represents plus sized clothes

>>10873613
AtePie went into detail on how their plus size patterns work. they're not just scaled up from the regular size, they're resized correctly. nevertheless no one seems to want them. i think people tend to assume all plus size releases are just scaled up and reject these releases without even seeing them in person.

>>10873630
Because it’s all virtue signaling, fatties just want to be pandered to. They won’t actually put their money where there mouth is. They just want XXXXXL Milky Planet

>>10873613
Why did dresses like the Honey Cake rerelease sell so well then? It’s the exact same size as the original dress + 30 cm. Not upsized correctly. Fatties are so stupid

>>10873622
Nah just remember that people here for some reason think that fat= landwhale even if youre 3cm over the size of the dresses.

I have small shoulders and small waist so skirts aren't as big a problem as jsks are as I have a large bust. I can only zip them up halfway. But I dont consider myself to be fat.

Thats being at 167cm 59 kilos

>>10873636
honey cake was rereleased right before the big covid-era lolita boom, was a highly sought after print and sweet is always more popular than gothic. this isnt rocket science.

>>10873644
so you admit imperfect resizing is just an excuse for you?

>>10873636
fatty here, I actually DIDN'T buy honey cake for this exact reason. I was hoping they would bring back the skirt and they didn't, so I didn't purchase anything. So...?
>>10873630
Cool, sure doesn't look like it on the model. I hope it looks better in person.

>>10873687
it does, i've seen it in-store. the fabric feels really nice, actually-- it's heavy enough that it has a kind of smoothing effect as opposed to the clingy bulgey situation a lot of cutsews have. the elastic doesn't squeeze your arms (i'm not huge, but my arms are a little bulky due to work, so usually sleeve elastic kills me). upper back is shirred, corset lacing along the middle point, so the torso is very adjustable.

i think the model photo is just poorly styled because they were trying to show off the fit on a particularly big model without covering things up with a bodice or being tucked into a skirt.

kinda hard to judge quality when your reference is a girl in a shitty bra wearing it like a normie r shirt, yknow? i recommend following their social media or watching their shop videos/streams, you'll get a lot more examples of shop staff wearing the item in different ways (one of the other modelled photos is styled so differently i didn't recognise it as the same blouse at first) or candid images of the item.

>>10873630
To be quite honest plus size Lolita’s dont have the brain cells necessary to buy anything other than bland western indie pieces. All they see is a Japanese brand making a plus size piece and immediately assume it probably won’t fit and don’t attempt trying it.

>>10872588
It depends on what your definition of “tightly fitted” is. I wear kids brands like mezzo piano and other kids brands so to me this girl isnt to big for her AP dress she’s just on the upper end of the measurements (maybe 107 - 119cm bust).

>>10874032
>plus size Lolita’s dont have the brain cells necessary to buy anything other than bland western indie pieces

even as a broad generalization this just doesn't work. I'd be right there with you if you said that most plus sized lolitas tend to have horrible taste. But they're getting their stuff from various places, not just western indie. Taobao is really popular with plus sized lolitas because some brands offer really big sizing (like up to 130cm bust) and it's much lower in price compared to japanese core brands. Meta for obvious reasons. Some japanese indie (I wish it was more common). Some just buy any larger dresses they can find second hand, regardless of brand.

>>10874035
squeezing into something too small for you doesn't mean it fits kek. you definitely look like a retard hulking out of those children's clothes.

>>10874097
yeah it's really common for plus size lolitas to use taobao brands with custom sizing but tragically most of these pieces come made of the cheapest materials money can buy and it shows, or ironically are still fitted poorly even with custom measurements because the seamstress assumed they were a "mistake" and changed them so it still fits and looks like shit.

but oddly i've found people are more willing to blow $100 on 3 shitty taobao blouses that look horrible and still don't fit right than spend that same $100 on one plus size brand piece that actually might fit (but they assume it won't, because again, they're used to garbage from some dirt cheap sweatshop)

>>10874172
Ayrt and I agree. Most plus sized lolitas are cheap/don't want to spend much on lolita, so they're fine with low quality. A lot of them have never owned a piece from the core jpn brands so they don't have a reference for quality and they consider what they have as good enough. They're so comfortable with ill fitting things that they have to squeeze themselves into as well. It's painful to look at.

>>10874176
it's genuinely a shame. i think part of it is fast fashion brainwashing people into thinking clothes are supposed to be garbage by default, and it can be a little hard to believe the price tag is worth it when everyones seen western fashion designer brands dropping $300 t shirts that are identical to their walmart counterpart and the travesty that is NuAp, but i cannot emphasise enough how life changing an experience wearing good quality clothing is. i know it's not necessarily always feasible but i do wish people would invest in themselves more. a good quality piece can last you decades even if the upfront cost is more.

>>10874172
Something that I never understood is people who complain about clothing textures yet they refuse to buy good quality pieces that wont trigger that.

>>10874190
Autistic here and trust me I try that but I never know what the garment will feel like until it's in my hands. Seams can be scratchy, tags kill me, and sometimes even the best of fabric just feels "wrong". Brand has a higher chance of being "safe" but it's still a risk. I think more women in the lolita community are undiagnosed autistic than you'd think.

>>10874201
i would go as far as to say most lolitas are autistic, but a common way to cope with this is to learn a lot about textiles and construction so you can get an idea of what the fabric will feel like and where the seams will land, and then shopping in person as often as possible. if you aren't in a state or country with lolita stores, you should try to attend and arrange swap meets with your closest local community-- it's a really great way to get an opportunity to look at and evaluate different fabrics and cuts and figure out what works for you.

>>10874292
I appreciate the advice Anon and I'd definitely like to learn more about fabrics/laces and have done quite a bit of research. I'm in the middle of nowhere in canada so my nearest comm that has anyone in it who actually cares about lolita is like 8 hours away. Life sucks here but I guess we make do.

>>10874308
i recognise and respect the lonelita struggle, i used to live in a small fuckoff nowhere town myself. i know canada has kei con but that may not be big enough to be worth the journey if you aren't in the BC region. depending on your region and budget you might could make a hop down to NY or midwest cons someday but i get if that's not feasible. i hope someday your opportunities improve!

>>10863960
A mass expose in the mainstream media about how a troon infiltrated the community and ended up murdering five underage com members in his basement, all the while emboldened and favored by the mods who got high on their own farts banning terfs. Was caught when instead of a sixth victim a pissed off dad shows up to their picnic & ruffles date.

>>10874364
>all the while emboldened and favored by the mods who got high on their own farts banning terfs

eerily accurate

Tracksuit OP is the future of lolita fashion.

>>10875041
finally I can be a 24/7 lifestyler now that I have something to wear to the gym

>>10875138
That's a blast from the past

>>10875041
I love this, you need to listen to brave vibration for your training montage wihle wearing it though.