/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

Three: Gothic, Classic, Sweet.
The rest are themes (Sailor, Hime, Military…) or color variants (Shiro, Kuro…)
Cosplay „lolita“ can fuck off.

>>10719025
What about punk?

>>10719026
most closely related to gothic but it's also a theme/substyle

>>10719034
punk is more old school sweet than gothic

>>10719034
>>10719040
Punk is expansive enough to be it's own thing imo
Wa could be it's own thing too if it existed but it barely does.

>>10719046
>>10719040
No. You can't come in here 20 years later and define a substyle as "it should be it's own thing."

There are plenty of brands that make theme clothes, that doesn't mean they become the umbrella grandma to other sub styles. You get gothic, classic, and sweet.

>>10719067
learn to read, retard

>>10719067
Idk glb clearly delineated pink from other styles and there are clear silhouette differences for punk too. More layers, shorter skirts, more elaborate hairstyles, asymmetrical hems etc.

Punk Lolita seems like more of its own thing to me because it’s sometimes more punk than Lolita, and in its peak it had brands that specialized and catered specifically to punk Lolita looks. It also has color variations. I think black/red is pretty dominant, but I’ve also seen pink/purple and shirl/kuro variations. It also encompasses different themes in the pieces too. There are definitely sailor and military and school themed pieces for example. Punk definitely isn’t as big now, but I’m thinking it is it’s own sub style even if it’s not worn very often anymore.

>>10719081
This. Punk is very distinct from other Lolita styles. It’s not the same as country or hime or most of the other crap on this list. It’s consistent, has entire brands dedicated to it, has very different styling and shape, and bends/breaks a lot of the fundamentals of lolita aesthetic. It also has a very long history of being separated from other styles in media and doesn’t really fit under any of the basic umbrellas of goth classic or sweet.

>>10719067
But punk isn't gothic, classic or sweet.

>>10719081
>>10719093
It's a substyle from gothic. nothing you newbies say is going to change that. If you're talking about punk, in general, it wasn't and isn't lolita. That is it's own style in itself in Japan. Not saying they can't make some lolita pieces, but the majority of those punk brands aren't lolita focused.

>>10719118
>It's a substyle from gothic
But it's not.

>>10719034
>>10719067
You're clearly someone that either knows nothing about gothic or nothing about punk. Just because both styles use lots of black colorways doesn't make them the same style. This is like claiming gothic lolita and western goth are the same.

>>10719081
>>10719093
These are correct. Punk has always been a separate substyle, just one that's not as popular in the west.

>>10719040
Damn you really outed yourself as a true know nothing

>>10719121
Gothic Lolita’s often bawk at punk lol it’s not even close to the same thing.

>>10719122
anons into old school often know nothing about old school. people who were around when that shit sold for pennies, don't really run their mouths like these plebs

>>10719129
ayrt
Yeah, punk and gothic are practically opposites in most ways. There's a lot of elements that are regularly accepted or even required for punk lolita, that are frowned on or hard to incorporate into gothic.

>big cupcake pettis
>mini skirts and funky hemlines
>layered distressed clothing
>cute themes like stuffed animals, sweets, Alice, etc.
>denim, PVC, and other unconventional materials
>bright accent colors like pink and lime green
>rock/punk style spikes, studded clothes
>patches and DIY elements
>band shirts and merch
>belts
>harnesses and fetish accessories
>clashing patterns and colors
>OTT coording style

>>10719024
Why subcategorize crazy if you can't fix it.

>>10719139
The majority of what you mentioned is punk, not punk lolita. Especially mini skirts. I don't know where you dolts think that it's lolita.

>>10719144
Goth + lolita = gothic lolita
Punk + lolita = punk lolita

>>10719144
I mean ap has released tons of skirts they literally call mini skirts. It’s longer than a normie mini skirt, but it’s been in Lolita for ages.

Yall need to go back and read GLB. Punk has always been a separate style.

>>10719154
they have never been classified as lolita. tired of you newfags

>>10719179
oh let me guess you're also one of those salos aren't lolita trashbags.

Those are absolutely lolita, just like salopettes. Cry about it.

>>10719187
not ALL salopettes are lolita.

you're the only one crying about fairy kei not being lolita

>>10719196
Ok. Lemme get this straight. You think the chess emblem mini skirt is fairy kei? What about chess chocolate? Cinema doll? It’s 100% Lolita. They coord them as Lolita in their own shoots and look books. The only reason why people say they’re not is because on tall westerners they don’t look the same. Go suck a lemon.

>>10719207
nayrt but those skirts are way too short to fit a petti and you know that. it's for otome/casual wear and not lolita.

>>10719081
Besides Putumayo, what brand out there was punk lolita exclusively?

>>10719216
If you owned one you’d know they have a built in petti and that ap made light petticoats specifically for their sales and mini skirts newfag

>>10719216
None of those prints are otome or casual either anon. You don’t have to pretend to know things, you can look them up on lolibrary you know.

>>10719024
this is missing one of the newer substyles, idol lolita. probably because the western comm has a hateboner for it, but it still exists

>>10719222
Post some examples

>>10719222
Chinese made styles aren't Japanese lolita styles. Not one brand has made that trash. China. does. not. define. lolita.

>>10719315
is this board ever gonna come to terms with the fact that china has the largest and most influential community of lolitas, and that china is the main hub of lolita these days, or just deny it forever

>>10719320
This is cgl so definitely the latter. Imo though, idol lolita is basically the same thing as cosplay.

>>10719216
How do you try to larp so hard and still not know that built in pettis or light pettis are a thing? Wtf?
>>10719327
Yeah I agree, I'd like to see some examples that don't look like cosplay.

>>10719179
>>10719196
>>10719216
Please post a source from any japanese brand in where they specifically state "We made mini skirts and salopettes not for lolita", go ahead, I'll wait.

>>10719335
Can't you just go ask the brand makers themselves? It's an option.

Anon is right though that it's meant for a more casual day-to-day look. That much is true.

>>10719327
i don't think it looks any more costumey than pirate or steampunk honestly

>>10719341
To me it’s not that it’s costumey it’s just that the look for idol Lolita is pretty much identical to cosplay/maid styles. Not a good thing or a bad thing, I just don’t think it’s really it’s own thing.

>>10719338
Casual Lolita is a thing but a lot of the coords I’ve seen with those pieces aren’t really what I’d call casual. Especially not with the more elaborate ones like cinema doll, which has the velvet details and stuff. Tbh in my opinion lolita is defined much more broadly than a lot of purefags want to admit. We already established that salos don’t come from fairy kei, and are in fact part of and intended to be Lolita. Mini skirts are in the same category. If it fits you such that it still holds the aesthetic then it’s Lolita.

>>10719338
You don't even have to, you can just look at how it's coorded on their shop pics. Anons that ree that miniskirts and salos aren't lolita are the ones who'd wear a toned down cinema doll and call it casual like >>10719352 mentioned.
Or mad fatties that cant fathom how salos and miniskirts can fit other people properly and still be lolita.

Wa/Qi are lolita-traditional clothing fusions, and i love them. But i'm wondering have there been successful traditional clothing fusions from other cultures? I know mexican lolitas have been making attempts but it usually puts the traditional over the lolita enough to drown it out. Any good examples.

also yes, Punk was its own thing. I miss putumayo. steampunk, guro, military and pirate should be lumped together.

Just wanted to say this is a good thread. Actually arguing about the fashion itself. Love you all.

>>10719512
For those outside of wa/qi I think its on mostly a dress-by-dress basis, but I've seen a handful of dresses and coords inspired by different european cultures (aside from Victorian and Rococo fashion of course). I think there's a lot of room for inspo from Alpine (pic related) and Russian folk wear.

>>10719024
there's texture lolita and patas lolita but that's a lesser known substyle

>>10719527
But only if it's Mana's MmM patas

>>10719338
The burden of proof is on the other party. Salopettes and mini skirts are lolita because lolita brands release them right alongside OPs and JSKs, they're styled in a lolita way, and there has never been a single instance of any brand saying they were meant to be for fairy kei or gyaru yet larpers on cgl love to keep parroting that.

And casual lolita is still lolita.

>>10719541
by that point then all cat ears are now lolita, because AP released them. same with shorts, those are also now lolita because lolita brands released them.

>>10719606
lets lump in all the styles, while we're at it because anons like >>10719541 can't separate style influences on brand clothing and think that one brand across the board only releases clothing for ONE style. But I guess you shits do that with gothic brands as well, I see you guys thinking goth brands = lolita brands just because they made 1 lolita piece.

No, the only larpers here are you shits coming in and blurring lines. That's the definition of a larper, because you can't understand that every piece of clothing isn't lolita

>>10719541
>>10719606
>>10719609
Also I will reference Japanese lolitas, if you really think miniskirts are supposed to be lolita. They clearly outline rules of the skirt needs to be long enough, which miniskirts are not. I'm so so so tired of you newbs coming in here and trying to dictate the fashion, just because you want to be included in your AP miniskirt for clout. People had no problem posting these things on daily ala mode or lolita influence pages back in the day, but now all of you just want to be witnessed for your AP miniskirt

>>10719315
Japan has already accepted the existence of idol lolita. Cope.

>>10719606
Brand cat ears that were made to be worn with lolita are lolita. Dunno why that's hard for you to get.

>>10719609
every piece of clothing isn't lolita but salopettes and brand skirts are

>>10719612
who the fuck wears AP miniskirts for clout when they're usually the least popular cut of any release that has them. What gets "clout" is hype prints not hype cuts....no one gives a shit about the Milky Planet miniskirts anon

>>10719024
fetch me sweet military lolita rn

>>10719612
Kek they’re long enough if you’re not a western Sasquatch

>>10719645
AP and meta have made some, there’s also this old baby release that might qualify. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s a pink set with black trim. Has pirate or military vibe

>>10719606
How hard are you trying to sound that dumb? No, not "all cat ears" but the cat ears released by AP. same with the miniskirts, not "all the miniskirts", just the miniskirts released by AP. God it's not even that hard

>>10719315
where do you think qi originated exactly...? did it only become valid in your mind after japanese brands co-opted it?

>>10719624
yep and there have even been collab dresses with japanese idol groups like girls revolution

>>10719217
Didn't H.naoto have a line for just that for a while? But it was more of a side hustle for most brands.

>>10719216
not every lolita dress needs a petti. most do, but some, like the BTSSB babydoll JSK, dont need a petti. otome isn't a real style. casual wear can still be lolita.

>>10719606
jesus christ the larper problem on cgl is getting out of hand. how are we still having this asinine arguments in twenty fucking twenty two?

its very simple

cat ears are not lolita
cat ears CAN be worn well in a lolita coordinate
not all cat ears are lolita but some lolita coordinates can feature cat ears.

mini skirts are not lolita
some brands release mini skirts meant to be worn in a lolita way
not all mini skirts are lolita but some lolita coordinates can feature cat ears

stop referencing the lolita handbook. stop using clumsily translated guides from the egl livejournal era as the end all be all of lolita fashion. those were guides to help you when you were a newbie, when westerners could hardly buy lolita directly from brands. if youre an established lolita, been in the fashion more than 3 years, with a sizable wardrobe, there is no reason you should be parroting hard rules like "x isn't lolita, EVER", thats a childs way of seeing the fashion. grow up, evolve.


>>10719612
AP doesnt even make skirts anymore, much less mini skirts, so no one is wearing it for clout. AP does still make salopettes anymore, they experiment with long and short skirt length.

>>10719515
I feel like saris could be great fusion material. I want to see someone make kebab fashion work but it really doesn't seem possible.

>>10719710
There’s a grain of potential in sari-lita but holy fuck it would be more ita than wa/qi ever could be

>>10719710
said kebab, meant kenyan.
I need to stop phoneposting

>>10719726
yes, but the allure of new material is awfully tempting. Lolita can get stale sometimes.

Too many

>>10724481
Was this reply really with bumping a near dead thread

>>10724484
Not them but I'm happy about the bump, this was one of the most interesting threads on the board, I think it deserves at least one bump to see if anyone adds anything before it's let die.

>>10719024
one: Mental Illness

>>10724488
Same. It's better than coomer and request theads

>>10724488
It's not interesting at all. Sailor can be sweet, classic, or gothic. It's a theme like pirate which can also be any of the above substyles. Imo even wa and qi are just themes on sweet or classic silhouettes and aesthetic.

Agree that punk is its own thing. AATP used to occasionally issue punk releases back in the day. BPN and Naoto also made punk lolita. The silhouette is smaller, shorter and uses irregular hemlines. You need a smaller petti for punk releases. The only time the silhouette overlaps is if you fuck it up and try to coordinate a sweet dress in a punk way

If single colors count as a substyle instead of being lumped into one "single color-kei" then idol lolita is valid no matter how ita it is
Change my mind

>>10730284
Got any examples of punk coordinated sweet dresses or visversa?

>>10730339
nta but there have been a lot of tartan releases from like btssb and stuff that people really like in punk

>>10730341

>>10730342
here's an example of what non was talking about

>>10730341
I love seeing chokers integrated well.

>>10730341
While I don't like this
>>10730342
I do like this.

>>10734385
Why don't you like that anon?

You forgot kidcore lolita.

https://youtu.be/RSUtsT1oKhc?t=1087

>>10736333
This woman actually triggers my gag reflex with how disgusting she looks. I bet she smells awful.

>>10719024
Most of these fall into the main 3 sub styles and are just themes or variations. Not worth a thread imo

>>10719731
You really want to be cancelled that bad? Ankaralita was proposed and shut down already

>>10736333
Anyone else find this ironic that this girl claims to be a wrestler ("which is why she is big"), but she can't even catch her breath between standing up and turning around in a dress?

>>10719216
nayrt but I've been able to stuff an A-line petti under a salo on multiple occasions. Maybe that's just me because I have short legs but with enough waistband rolling I got it under there without a petti peek.

>>10741581
AP salopettes need a petticoat just like their JSKs and OPs do, they just need a different shorter kind.

>>10741583
Is that just AP pettis though? My salo is from a taobao brand. When I was a dumbass newbie I accidentally ordered a salo instead of a JSK of the same print, but I kept it and realized I could still get the same silhouette by putting an A-line petticoat underneath and rolling the waistband.

>>10741651
regular lolita petticoats are going to be too long and poofy but I guess getting a brand one (which are known for being kind of shitty) and rolling the waistband would do the trick enough