/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

how do you define "dying"? there are newlitas every single day, but those that actually keep up with the fashion or strive to get better may be dwindling

i think the price hike is a huge problem though, it makes it incredibly unwelcoming to newlitas and those who even want to come back to the fashion,

>>10695613
We kinda get the same topic every 3 years.

No.

>>10695619
/Thread, next

Once again, the dead horse…it rises. Next we’ll have a thread asking what we should rename lolita to.

>>10695613
Nah, but a good portion of the lolita threads here are dead though. Too many psychos that are banned from interacting anywhere else come here to whinge and derail under the guise of anonymity.

>inb4 it used to be worse
Not at all. It’s always been a relatively slow board with lots of retards but it was never anything like this.

The only thing "dying" is clothing quality. Clolita is making the fashion more available and more size friendly which is inviting more people to partake in the fashion at cheaper prices. We have more western indie brands now as well.

Lolita isn't dying but /cgl/ is

there's more lolitas and lolita brands now worldwide more than ever before and yet somehow people like OP think it's "dying"

>>10695676
Discord changed how people communicate. Yes, the board has gotten much slower, but it was a slow board to begin with

Lolita is more popular and widely available than it ever has been how could you even think it's """"dying""""

>>10695613
>radio silence of others
Only if you are too retarded to use social media properly there is a "silence".

>>10695659
>Clolita is making the fashion more available and more size friendly
More like jp girls keep getting fatter because more and more western fastfood brands opening stores all over the place, China gives you bad social credit if you are remotely fat.

>>10695676
thank god

>>10695742
You want this board to die... even though you are actively participating? Seems counterproductive.

>>10695755
People suck at internalizing that they are the thing they hate.

>>10695699
Yes but those chinese brands know very well they can sell to fat westerners easily.

>>10695659
Only if you’re stuck on burando. All the big brands have their roots in indie fashion, and started at much smaller scale with high quality materials/construction. If you want high quality, look to the current indie brands in the west/Korea/japan that are well known for their construction right now. Even some of the Chinese brands that are small scale have very good quality. Some of the Korean makers are basically bespoke for the cost of an AP release.

Yes, because it’s ugly as shit on white people and they’re finally noticing.

>>10695796
I didn't know Korean lolita brans existed. I've seen a really nice Russian one but their styles don't appeal to me.

>>10695681
Basically this. Discords have lets me discuss lolita in peace without trolling scrotes.

>>10695807
Ah no. Those still exist, if you have any lurkers that sit in the background, like using twitter, and small cliques then there's a potential you're going to have some vulture pick you for a cancel culture post. Discord is pretty unsafe nowadays.

>>10695846
They still exist, but have been kicked out or stay quiet at least in the ones I'm in. It's the male and trans dominated discords that seem to have the most drama and scandals.

>>10695849
>It's the male and trans dominated discords that seem to have the most drama and scandals.
Sounds about right. As long as the mods are good and recognize the people who are trying to start drama (and there's no fallout from kicking them out, which shit's hard nowadays in communities)

>>10695676
True. It's sad. I'd like to see more activity on here

>>10695681
discord is not anonymous. it fills a totally different niche imo

>>10695613
For every lolita brand that dies, a new one rises from the ashes.

>>10695699
there are more overweight people in china than japan..

>>10695676
Maybe if mods did their fuckings jobs and deleted coomer and bait threads, the board would be more active.

>>10695657
There's no much quality social element to it. Staying around FB groups makes a little sense with how political things are around there. Insta is more focused around specific person's content rather than a group chatter. Not sure on discord quality, but that thing seems too intimate as for a space involving complete strangers who has nothing in common besides their clothes.

>>10696105
Probably one of the more noticeable changes on here. Not even two years ago any attempt of a big tiddy or whatever fetish you have cosplay thread would have been deleted right away. Now it seems to be the norm.

The lolita community has grown so much over the past years, it won't die unless every single brand shuts down or we collectively agree to stop wearing it.

>>10696105
>maybe if we reduced activity, there would be more activity
I don't like coomerbait either, but this take is not the big brain take

>>10695659
>Clolita is making the fashion more size friendly
This is extremely bad, fatty-chans are already the scourge of the community and the last thing we need is more of them. I don't want to be part of a fashion for fatties.

>>10696351
Too late, lolita is already the fat girl fashion in Japan. You're just a chubby-chan at best.

>>10696351
You'll always be part of a fashion for fatties unless you start dressing like a fitness thot. Just know that you'll look better for being thinner and just have your dresses tailored to fit. I have to do this anyway for clolita. They have bigger bust sizes and I can tailor down the waist to fit.

Well, community having big dose of pretentious self righteous cunts as members do have some problems.

>>10696356
With the rise of "fat positivity" and "health at every size" these days even the fitness community has fat people. Doesn't make much sense but it's real, fat fitness influencers are out there and brands are making size-inclusive fitness wear.

>>10696349
That kind of "activity" just kills other threads because it makes neckbeards and trolls hang around the board and then start shitting up actual discussion.

>>10696351
Kek have you not seen APs sizing lately? What about metas plus plus size? Or kanekos 150cm waist? Indie and Japanese brands aren’t shunning fat people either, clolita is just cheaper.

>>10696105
That wouldn't work as much as I would want it to. Coomer threads aren't that active anywayn it's usually two or 3 anons bumping a thread once every few days with little to no discussion. The only discussion that does happen is when someone takes the bait and starts a back and forth with them but they're pretty easy to kill off. I think what's slowing down the board is the hostility and anons quickly attacking one another over the smallest instances discouraging discussion. This newer generation can't handle that and have other "safespaces" to go to instead. In my years on and off this board anons here get snappy and offended way too easily compared to yesteryears.yesteryear. When's the last time you felt a sense of community here?

>>10696105
>>10696317
we used to have a very good mod on here, but I think they stepped down from day-to-day responsibilities a couple years ago. it’s also when I noticed the quality took a dive. throwing around the slang term “scrote” for example was a rarity

>>10696375
i agree with this, clolita's draw is that it's cheap shit. most normie friends i show clolita to lap it up too- they actively enjoy how cosplay-y it looks

>>10696351
Lolita is literally the fat girl fashion in japan.
There’s a reason why it always looks kind of frumpy in a cute way.

>>10696375
This is what I find so weird about fatties who insist that lolita is *super* problematic and uninclusive, and ana-chans who screech about fat people living their kawaii lives. Pudgy girls have pretty much always been a part of lolita aesthetic. Even wayyy back in the day, brands made full shirring options and featured girls who were basically obese by Japanese standards. Tbh I think the whole weight obsession thing is largely blown out of proportion by people who are insecure about being fat/ a sack of bones. Normal sized lolitas honestly don't seem to give a fuck.

Lolita isn't dying at all. The quality is going down but that means you have to look harder for good indie brands with better construction like >>10695796 said. The covidlitas will move on, they'll get bored of the fashion eventually. Biggest mistake was letting these dumb bitches and/or covidlitas give in their entire stimmy for a dress not nearly even worth more than 1k.

>>10696437
>weight obsession is largely blown out of proportion by people who are insecure

This. People who don’t have massive body issues really don’t care about weight in Lolita unless you’re actively being a cunt.

>>10696375
On the subject of AP, VM and Baby every time I look it's rare to catch a dress that has at least a 100cm bust. The waists I don't have a problem with, it's the bust and shoulders for me that leads me to more clolita.

>>10696474
are you actually retarded or something ?

>>10696490
Yes, why?

I don't think that the fashion is dying, but it is changing. The disappearance of brands and decaying quality of those we are left is is definitely something to worry about. I image that in 10 years lolita will be a lot more like was in pre 2009. There will be very few second hand options because everything good on the market has been bought up by then. This will result in a second renaissance of the ita being envious of the "brand whores" and the veterans being bullied out of the public eye.

>>10696499
BABY still makes new dresses just as good as older ones and their style hasn't changed much other than their overpriced princess dresses geared towards Chinese lolitas and weddings.

Meta has had a lot of evolution in terms of aesthetic and style over the years but is still going strong with their preorder system for most things and re-releasing old things. Quality is fine enough. Meta has always been really well constructed too. AP is the only brand I feel has had a real quality dip. And IW has just been obsessed with mediocre poly solids and long shit for the last couple years if not more.

>>10696437
So many brands are catering to plus size girls too, even the Japanese ones like metamorphose, atelier pierrot and maxicimam. Bigger lolitas have it so good right now and i wish they would understand that instead of attacking brands who choose not to cater to them, they have their reasons not to.

>>10696508
>AP is the only brand I feel has had a real quality dip
But but anon! Ap is the only brand newfags care about obviously.

>>10696462
I'm actively being a cunt then I guess. I don't want to see a fatty wearing VM or Mary, it's not for them. It's supposed to be pretty and beautiful and you have to have the right shape for the right silhouette. Aesthetics matter, lolita is about aesthetic beauty and not about your feelings. I don't spend all this time arranging lovely and harmonious picnic setups and such so some bitch can destroy the whole effect by bloatmaxxing.

Think of it like Japanese tea ceremony, where they're obsessed with getting everything just right because one bad detail can spoil the whole thing. Imagine being a tea master whose whole life is this aesthetic, making a perfect arrangement, and then on the morning of an important tea ceremony someone just dumped a giant fifty pound pile of lard in a corner of the teahouse. You can't just overlook it.

lolita is more accessible than ever. we dont need a western homogenous community to share coords and discuss how to buy brand. lolita isn't dying. its just becoming, not mainstream, but less niche.

>>10696554
yes you are kek. If seeing fat people wearing something ruins the whole experience for you, you really need some therapy anon. I don't think fatties look good in lolita, but I don't give enough fucks about it to make constant complaints and remarks about it. You have some kind of weird complex you need to work on anon.

endless summer

>>10695699
>>10696375
Kek new ap and btssb waists are too big for me, wtf even happened to this fashion

>>10696398
And now we're dealing with /r9k/ posters vs FemaleDatingStrategy posters who decided to bring their gender war bullshit to /cgl/

>>10696589
/cgl/ had always hated troons and had a decent population of actual women, there is no gender war

>>10696554
Good luck with your brain aneurism

Lolita is more popular than it's ever been.

>>10696589
What's wrong with fds? Some of them are crazy but their hearts are in the right place. I think the problem is that there is no mods to put spergers in their place. We used to have a really good mod who removed all the scrote orientated coom threads and cleaned up all the lolita infighting but it seems like they are gone now. RIP to that jannie.

>>10696591
As much as scrotes annoy me, the tranny supporters and the vendetta-chans are the worst people on this board.

>>10695613
Lolita [as you know it] is dead, long live lolita.

>>10696589
What's wrong with /r9k/? Some of them are crazy but their hearts are in the right place.

>>10699774
Some are extremely hateful, all mentally ill. Not all are bad people but you gotta be cautious with them

>>10699940
She's making fun of FDS retards.

>>10695676
scrotes and tr00ns keep reporting seagulls for spam/using an IP

>>10696508
>BABY still makes new dresses just as good as older ones and their style hasn't changed much other than their overpriced princess dresses geared towards Chinese lolitas and weddings.

This is why I've started buying a lot more Baby lately for basics and dailywear. IW used to be my go-to but the quality has dipped horribly in the last several years... Well, they still sell out on the regular, so good for them. But I'll stick to Baby who still put out blouses and versatile accessories on the regular, and still use cotton on the regular, and put out good quality heritage cuts of solids still that I can buy new and not have to resort to something off the secondhand market that's had 5 owners.

>>10696554
You are absolutely a cunt. You don't get to decide what girls can and can't wear. If a fat girl fits into VM and MM then they have every right to wear those brands and it IS for them. You come off as a pathetic control freak. Like the other anon said, get therapy.

>>10696105
>no fun allowed

>>10695619
Yes but 3 years ago the thread would have been long archived by now

>>10700061
Hi A. Hows your poltard fiance?

>>10696554
Hi A. Hows your poltard fiance?

>>10700944
she's probably ugly. even if you hate fatties they make you look better by comparison.

>>10701187
This

>>10701175
>doesn't remember Der Footthread

>>10696554
Utterly based and true.

>>10695677
Because they don't consider Chinese lolitas or Chinese brands to be "real lolita." But let's be real, China is the main reason lolita is *not* dying and still going strong these days. They could keep the main Japanese brands afloat just on their own even if every other country abandoned lolita. And then pretty much every new lolita wears Taobao these days instead of going straight to brand (or Bodyline as it used to be) so those brands are a huge part of the fashion as a "starter kit" type of thing if nothing else.

>>10695613
Don't think it's declining because of rona. Lolita fashion's been phasing out for years now in Japan. Doesn't help that the community has such a catty internet reputation, even when IRL lolitas are pleasant. You can't expect brands to make money when lolitas are bullying others into not wearing the clothes. The west and China are booming right now, but it'll decline after 4-5 years as trends change and people move on. We'll just be left with a bunch of old, wrinkly lolitas.

A more interesting topic is what happened to 4chan in the past decade. This site used to have some sense of community, but now people just come here to vent because their personality is so shitty, even Reddit doesn't want to listen to their rants

>>10701545
>You can't expect brands to make money when lolitas are bullying others into not wearing the clothes.
Anon what the fuck are you talking about lmao, lolitas have ALWAYS been like this and brands sell out anyway. Also most reasonable people don't give a fuck about what a bunch of randos on the internet have to say. You'd think someone who is willing to dress in an expensive alternative fashion in public would have thicker skin and brush off that garbage no problem.
Same with 4chan, it's literally always been shit.
I swear this thread topic and the arguments that follow get recycled every couple of years.

>>10701547
Has anyone ever actually been bullied out of wearing lolita? Even the whales and TIMs who get shit on the most stick around.

>>10695613
Every six months y'all ask this shit and every six months we say the same thing:

No. The fashion is not dying.

>>10696474
fucking this, I can fit in any goddamn measurement you throw at me except for bust/shoulders bs
also some clolita like cc cat is adorable desu
t. wide shoulders big tid

>>10701660
There was Milky Fawn and I know some non famous former lolitas who have gave up the fashion because of the hostile environment.
Don’t know if it happens constantly enough to be taking a toll on brands, but it definitely happens.

Even if it "dies", there will be a revival in little under a decade, just like we're seeing right now with Y2K as well as 2014 Ariana Grande style.

>>10701660
I almost did but then I realized that that’s what some of you weirdos wanted, so I didn’t.

>>10701545
>4-5 years
>wrinkly lolitas

Tell that to the people who have been in the fashion since the LJ days. I've not met or encountered a single person who gave a fuck that anyone had a wrinkle, except here in recent times. You know, where the community is made up of 15 year old edge-lords who own one 7th hand Baby lucky pack sock and think their opinion is majority rule. "Old people. Yuck. Why aren't you wearing boring old people clothes."

>>10701547
>>10701660
I don't think I've witnessed anyone beyond the rare person leaving due to hostility.

As a fatty-chan old-timer, I've not encountered any "bullies" that made me want to consider quitting. I've had run-ins with plenty of bloomers on the head crazies, but I just laugh at their antics and move on.

I can see how being very out there and public while having an obsessive following might make one uncomfortable. But that's rare.

I do imagine that if you venture into the land of tiktok and twitter, you'll get some pearl-clutching puritanical 13-year olds screeching about the other lolita. But most of us are on FB/Insta and don't encounter that. Just creeps and sissies.

>>10701728
>I've not met or encountered a single person who gave a fuck that anyone had a wrinkle, except here in recent times.
This. Everyone at RVR was "old" to these fucks. They’re the ones who actually wear the clothing.

>>10701721
Milky Fawn didn't left because bullying but because she noticed her shopping addiction and actually decided not to indulge it further and because people idolizing (like someone selling a dress as "worn by milkyfawn" ) her creeped her out.

>>10696508
Baby and Meta have been KILLING it lately with their release.

Like look at this and tell me AP has put out something even remotely cute like this

>>10701848
Probably why she went minimalist

Does anybody mostly only ever wear lolita at home and barely ever out in public (aside from meetups)?

>>10701660
Yes, I was. I was on the fence between spending more money on lolita vs j-fashion, and a few months of dealing with a stupid amount of high school level drama from lolitas, I decided I didn't want to associate with that and sold what I had to buy more j-fashion and stick to that.
And I know a few lolitas who still wear dresses, but actively avoid other lolitas because of the associated drama.

>>10702027
Nta and I'm sorry you had some bad irl experiences. I've only ever had nice experiences irl and off anon in online chat/servers with other lolitas like discord or dms on small.

I think cgl is just the worst. It's worse now that it was before honestly. I blame old schoolers and newbs for the unhinged aggression that everyone sports these days.

>>10702028
Its 50/50. half the lolitas I have met are great, other half are /cgl/ "everything everyone else wears is ita" types.

>>10702002
I don't go to meetups really, so I wear lolita out whenever I have the opportunity (for shopping, going out to eat, dates with my partner, activities with normie friends etc)

>>10696554
>I don't spend all this time arranging lovely and harmonious picnic setups so some bitch can destroy the whole effect by bloatmaxxing

LMFAO picturing some chick painstakingly putting a plate down on a blanket omg

>>10701721
i thought no one knew the actual reason she left. she just disappeared. i figured she just got bored with it

>>10702002
Nah the opposite, wearing lolita outside makes going outside itself more fun.

>>10702028
When did you join cgl?

>>10701660
Yes, but it's been a really long time. It's also one of the events that kind of led to vendettas being banned. A woman who did adult work as her career was also a lolita. Back then, there wasn't really any porn of actual lolitas; just bad 'sissy' looking stuff.

She did a video wearing lolita, and she got bullied out of the fashion. I seem to remember she ended up apologizing & selling her dresses which wasn't right (because she couldn't wear it anymore to meets or anything without getting harassed). Because no one had done it, it ended up all over the internet.

I just remember it was really, really bad. She was all over /cgl/ and everywhere. It's kind of why you don't see any lolita porn during its height.

>>10701660
I should add, anon, to what I said in >>10702192. To explain how long ago this was, it's when nobody was really doing webcam work because webcams were still EXTREMELY expensive so you didn't really have your major streaming websites or any of that yet. She assumed no one would recognize her, but the person who bought the video was assumed to have possibly been responsible for releasing it where she could get DOXXED. Pretty much, /cgl/ had stills from the beginning and even links being posted. Like I said, she ended up quitting the fashion from my understanding. People were upset she wore the actual fashion in a porn.

That's the only instance I know of someone being bullied out of the fashion.

Well, cgl is dying because of "anons" like >>10702028 and >>10702051 who killed the sense of community we used to have.

Well, cgl is dying because of "anons" like >>10702028, >>10702051 and other retarded outsider bitches, who come to cgl to whine about cgl and who killed the sense of community and 'being a seagull' we used to have.

>>10702192
>whore gets bullied out of the fashion
Good.

>>10702199
Kek yeah sure the newfags didn't ruin cgl. Keep telling yourself that.

>>10702192
i feel like lolita has probably been done in japanese porn plenty of times at the height of popularity and we just don't know about it because we aren't japanese coomers

>>10702237
Those are newfags.

>>10702237
Those are newfags. If they pulled the "cgl is so mean, catty and shitty :((" shit back in 2011, they would've been torn a new one and told to go back to tumblr.

>>10702192
>>10702194
sounds fake t b h

>>10702289
>>10702237
NTA but truth. It's fucking annoying we have newfags on here being like "everyone on here is a bad person BUT ME" literal completely imposter syndrome - you're a seagull if you're on here. Tired of this shit.

/cgl/ was informative back in the day. I hate coming to this board, now, 13 years later because no one wants to provide anything but be whiney bitches about cgl

>>10702291
>shit back in 2011, they would've been torn a new one and told to go back to tumblr.
100%. We chewed up PT and spit her out. Literally so much milk came from this board. People who bitch and moan about cgl now, have no fucking clue especially with the LJ hate shrines that girls made for other girls. It's 150% not cgl, it's the lolita community, period.

gulls, why exactly IS the lolita community so brutal to each other? is it this way in japan, even?

we all know it's not just cgl clearly, why is the community like this? are men right, that women are nothing but drama? discuss

>>10702299
Of course giant bows on frilly dresses that look ddlg if worn a certain way…are going to attract mentally ill people. there is hardly drama for the classic and probably goth lolitas.
Seriously the drama is always sweet centered. I love sweet myself and all the sweet lolitas i met irl so far are lovely. but if you are crazy and a sweet lolita, you are super super crazy and that’s all there is to it

>>10702299
>why exactly IS the lolita community so brutal
everyone is brutal online for every hobby on anon boards. even for shit like cross-stitching. there will always be crazies in every large group of people. plus, this board attracts the type of terminally-online, obsessive stalkers that people normally avoid IRL, as well as the LARPing lolitas-at-heart who think this is just some fun community to drama-monger and criticize strangers. if you go to actual comm meets IRL, everyone is incredibly nice.
>is it this way in japan, even?
online, yes
>are men right, that women are nothing but drama?
look at any male-dominated community (like the comms for video games) and you will find that it's also full of drama, so you can get this retarded misogyny out of here. some schizo Smash player literally made a whole video essay on why some guy was harassing him.

>>10702302
>drama for the classic and probably goth lolitas.
I disagree. While you may not witness it, but I've totally seen crazies go after goth lolitas. There's a lot of drama that's happened over the course of the western lolita community.

>>10702303
>this board attracts the type of terminally-online, obsessive stalkers that people normally avoid IRL
Why are you on this board then? Because that's you?

See my point? I've been on this board since '06, yes the lolita community sucked all the content dry on the board but your opinion is completely newfaggy and completely not recognizing you're what you're "claiming" the board is.

BTW before lolitas found cgl, because yes this board existed for a long time before they poured in, there were TONS AND TONS of livejournals dedicated to hating on itas, certain girls in the community, behind the bows, lolitasecrets, you name it. So seriously, take your dumb opinion off of my board with your newfag shit.

>>10702305
It doesn't *just* attract those types, but of course those types thrive on /cgl/ more than elsewhere like instagram. I never said it wouldn't exist in other communities, just that this and lolcow tend to be the worst for the obvious reason of anonymity. Learn to read before you start seething like some unhinged sperg.

>>10702303
There was literally a dude who threw an actual dead crab at some famous player too in front of an audience

>>10702299
Any community will be brutal to each other if they can hide behind anonymity. You just see it more with lolita because the community is so small and because the clothes already cause somewhat of a stressful environment with how expensive it is. It also doesn't help when you have people trying to make the already niche fashion into something it isn't. Sometimes lolitas aren't even "brutal" they're just trying to tell someone that what they're wearing isn't lolita, and get pinned as bullies anyway because the people first joining tend to be young or not used to someone being upfront about things. It's easy to brush off actual brutal things because they're usually so ridiculous , at least in my opinion,

While we're here, out of curiosity because I don't keep up with Japanese lolitas.
Do they give a fuck about the indie vs burando thing or is that only a western autism thing?

>>10702309
I’m even more out of the loop wtf has anyone been sperging about indie vs burando for

>>10702299
>is it this way in japan, even?
Japanese lolitas invented the term "ita"so you tell me.

>>10702303
>some schizo Smash player literally made a whole video essay on why some guy was harassing him.
FGC is full of a lot of retarded autists parading around virtuism shit now. It's constant drama drama drama. Smash is definitely one of the worst, but I am literally completely sick of hearing about how some dude raped some dude and/or did something illegal and *no one is reporting it.*

It's a bunch of drama crazy boys making up shit to climb the clout ladder.

>>10702299
>is it this way in japan, even?
Yes kek, at least it was 3 years back on their 4chan equivalent. They were even worse and I saw them gossip live-blogging about the ugly faces of attendees that were sitting on their tables at a tea party.

>>10702309
Japanese indie brands tend to be a bit better than the western offshoots.

>>10702319
2chan predates 4chan btw. 4chan literally is moot being a weeb and copying 2chan's existence. they are hardcore into gossiping and have always been on that board. shit's in literal media all over the place since forever.

>>10702309
Yes and no?

For one thing, like >>10702320 said, Japanese indie tends to be very high quality. And most of the indie brands have been around forever (like And Romeo and MAM). There isn't really a sharp divide between those and a bigger brand like VM. So girls that wear any brand will also wear any indie, and might even look specifically for indie pieces because they're more unique and special. And there's always tiny brands that you can't even find as a westerner, they don't have webshops. You'd only find them if you went to lolita stores and events in Japan and talked to people.

However, there's a lot of Japanese lolitas who collect only one brand. Like internationally most lolitas just wear a substyle, like sweet, but in Japan you have girls that aren't sweet lolitas, they're BtSSB-only lolitas (for example). That's why you can find so many meet-up pics of entire comms wearing the same brand or the same coord.

>>10702344
MAM is brand.

>>10702199
>>10702291
>Those are newfags.
I've been on /cgl/ since at least 2014

>>10702361
yes, when it was already shit.

>>10701182
Are we thinking of the same A? Who are you talking about?

>>10702321
How do you find the lolita threads?

>>10702344
Lol, those aren't indie brands and if you think those 2 are an example of higher quality I wonder what your taste level is.

>>10702361
>2014
lmfao, do you really think that makes you *not* a newfag? newfags are everything after '08

Yes lolita is dying
come cry on my shoulder, anons

>>10702361
You know nothing.

>>10702344
>indie brands like And Romeo and MAM
A brand not being one of the top 3 doesn't make them an indie brand ffs. If you're gonna talk out of your ass at least make it sound believable.

>>10702453
How many og users do you think are still here?
If every post-2008 gull is a newfag, then 90% of this board is newfags.

>>10702350
See?

>>10702361
>I've been on /cgl/ since at least 2014
So then you remember stuff like the Ita Thread existing continuously all that time? With fatty-chans and other itas regularly appearing to defend their shit? Ohio-Chan Meltdown was my favorite.

there haven't been any newfags on /cgl/ since 2018

>>10702475
shit bait

>>10702467
yes.

newfag was coined for everyone that came to 4chan in the newfag wave when it got popular. it's not a moving target. there's plenty of OG users. I've seen quite a bit on here. it doesn't matter if you're a newfag to me, but you are one and so is a lot of cgl. but yes, a lot of people came on here without 4chan culture so they just shit up the board with whiney bullshit instead of actual photo dumps. I kind of preferred the cosplayers, because at least they had informative diy threads on everything

>>10702410
The one I'm talking about does not own a single lolita piece, but goes on and on about how she'd fit MM and "all the landwhales" would be jealous.
She moved from the US to Canada to shack up with some crazy guy she met on /pol/. Has massive mommy and daddy issues.
The screeing post about the tea ceremony is exactly the way she talks irl.

>>10702192
We need more of this. God bless seagulls

>>10702479
Cosplay really is dead. There is only pornplay now

>>10696508
Baby might be doing well, but the newer AatP items I got have all been mediocre. Not bad, but also not worth the price tag quality wise. Just buy for the design I guess.

>>10700944
>If a fat girl fits into VM and MM
I agree anon is a cunt. But if anyone thinks fatties fit VM or MM then just... no. If they get it closed it's a miracle already, but actually fitting it only happens in dreams and replicas.

>>10696554
they won't stop until all brands have enough shirring and elastic waists to qualify as a fitted sheet (see: recent moi releases that weren't replicas of old dresses, it doesn't look good and is high waisted for people with fat guts)

>>10696554
Lmaoing at the amount of salt this anony mined just by saying something obvious like "fashion is about aesthetics", you gulls who got mad at her must be tublord itas

>>10704018
This, it's gross t bh
Ruins the designs for everybody

>>10704018

Honestly VM was nearly there with recent releases. "Relaxed Lady" was shit.

>>10704018
I love Meta but hate how every single release is full back shirring now... a bit of shirring with corset lacing is cute but when the whole back side is made to stretch as large as possible it just looks cheap and ugly desu

>>10704165
Meta literally offers 2-3 sizes now for many prints and they've had at least one or two releases with no shirring at all recently. The fatty dresses made to stretch huge are not the ones you're buying unless you are so big you need the plus size or extra big foreigner only plus plus size. Are you buying the fatty dresses and mad they're big or something?

>>10704165
shirring isn't just for fatties, fag.

>>10704171
this, i really hate this mindset that shirring = fatsie fat
like do you want me to get surgery and mutilate my body via breast reduction when i can fit into all sorts of dresses normally but need a few more cm??

>>10703978
Both of those brands have several shirred pieces and VM has released
like multiple tent OPs in recent years.

>>10704165
They've always had full shirring on the back for the majority of their releases. It's more comfortable anyways, get over yourself.

>dying

really? I kind of assumed that it skyrocketed in relevance/popularity over the past few years - due to zoomies being introduced to the chic/traits of it via 'UwU e-girl' chic

>>10704165
Just say you hate fatties newfag.

>>10705932
NTA but NO ONE but fatties like fattiest in lolita.

>>10705971
This. Why would anybody love fatties ruining nice clothes?

>>10705932
Everyone does, no need to say the obvious

>>10705932
Yeah I'm thinking that's based.

>>10705971
Mentally healthy people don’t give a damn about fatties in lolita

>>10709889
>t. Plumpy von Rotunda

The drama is what killed the lolita community

>>10709889
I don't spend any mental energy thinking about it, but I would definitely prefer if there were no fatties in lolita. It just makes the fashion look more clownish and ugly.

>>10718333
This, plus trips check'd

>>10709889
Physically and mentally healthy people can acknowledge that being a fatass is gross and part of an even bigger problem.

>>10696474
>>10696351
>>10696554
I hope that VM starts providing larger sizes so I can actually support it so you guys can cope and seethe. I want the brand to do well, but I'm not gonna buy anything if it doesnt fit. I wish I had gotten the preppy check blouse in picrel

>>10704018
>>10704134
>>10709258
I don't get why you don't just buy larger sizes and tailor it exactly to your size, its not hard. Sounds like you'll pay for brand and wear it shittily anyways. Even if brands "size up" all it would do is give people the opportunity to make their clothes fit better so they can wear them comfortably, ie underarm gussets, back or front pleats, armhole adjustment to make the bust fit better when its loose in the back and tight in the front, etc.

Being fat sucks but so does ill fitting clothes, I know not all of you are petite asf asians on here. lengthening that bodice by a couple inches would do tallitas good

>>10721804
what are your measurements?
>t. VM fag

>>10721537
>Asian woman gains 400 pounds
>Still has small tits

>>10695619
More like every 2 weeks.

>>10722046
96cm bust
75cm waist
My pain continues with my torso/sleeve length and shoulder width (40cm). There have been a couple other pieces I fell in love with and am so sad about, particularly when picrel was released- I watched it until it sold out entirely.

>>10722117
to add, I'm sure I could lace down with waist training to fit the waist measures if I put in some effort and am planning to buy some underbust corsets to get a better shape, but it still won't change the lack of bust size. If sizes were bigger, at least i could take in the back so I could have a proper fitted garment.

It’s definitely lost a lot of what attracted me to it. Especially considering that old sissy looking mofos like this are seemingly allowed to post and be apart of communities now.

I keep asking myself what the fuck is going on when I see this shit... it’s one thing to be trans, I totally get that! but even older women generally don’t want to be in comms and to hang around 16-25yo women they virtually have NOTHING in common with unless there’s something a little off with them. I’m in my 20’s now and I don’t even think I would want to hang out with some of the teens in my community.

this guy doesn’t even seem to identify as trans, and often seems to choose considerably younger girls to photograph with and talk to, Am I going fkn mad?

The 0 effort on makeup and creepy poses are a huge red flag to me, even old drag queens do MILES better with their makeup a lot of the time; this dude appears to have been active for 5+ years and has never improved with it or bothered to even properly style his wigs it seems?

Why does nobody do or say anything about these creepy fuckers now? How does nobody notice how creepy these guys really are?

I don’t trust brolitas that put 0 effort in to their actual appearance and just hoard dresses, it screams fetish.

Semi recently, my own community let one obvious sissy guy in when I was 17. He spent the entire time touching me without my permission on my waist and shoulders, and kept saying he wanted me to dress him up and that he wanted to be a cute little lolita doll whenever we were left alone. When i complained about him and said I felt unsafe, I was told I was being a bully to a 47 year old man when I was a literal minor.

This shit is driving me insane! at a certain point when you look like this and are coming into it as an old man, you should probably avoid the community at the very least if you aren’t going to put effort into actually suiting the fashion?

>>10722173
Tbh comms should have upward age bounds anyways. There’s plenty of active Lolitas who are older, but they’re rarely active in a comm after 40 anyways. It’s just weird to have old people hanging around, especially poorly dressed old men.

>>10700944
I can tell you’ve never owned VM or MM lol

>>10699374
I think that’s the point of the thread. The original vibe of the community is gone. Same with how goth is a shell of what it used to be in the 80’s.

>>10722175
I don’t even mind older Lolita’s, they popularised the fashion after all, but it just really bothers me we suddenly accept old men and let them live their creepy humiliation kink fantasies; if it weren’t a creepy kink you’d see real effort. If Mana can put effort in when he does make a rare appearance, so can these guys. Especially considering they seem to spend thousands to still look like hot garbage.

>>10722173
Idk if it's the fashion itself, but society, liberal people in general have become dangerously far too accepting of the trans community. People are too afraid of hurting people's feelings. Everything was better when trans people had limited representation and they actively gate kept their community, only validating people who passed and their remained their own little niche in society. Because of people being so afraid to offend trans people who do not pass (which is most of them), sissies have managed to sneak through the floodgate of acceptance. Because we are not allowed to question and challenge people on the validity of their status as trans, people now conflate their sissification fetish and autogynophilia with being trans. Its gross how much danger women are being put in for the sake of sjw points to coddle the feelings of potential sexual predators. Everyone is within their right to be sceptical of brolitas, especially the older ones.

>>10722175
older women in this fashion deserve to be here and are usually the best ones to hang around. it's just old men who need to be banned

>>10722178
I wear and own several MM/VM pieces. I just think it's shitty for people to say larger people aren't allowed to wear those brands. Cope.

>>10722259
I think it’s you who needs to cope. Larger people literally cannot fit into mm and vm and stating they look bad trying to cram themselves into it is nothing but a fact

>>10722259
I agree it’s not nice to tell people what they can and can’t wear, but I also don’t think a fat person could actually even begin to try to fit most VM and MM aside from maybe one piece.

>>10722260
Why do I need to cope? You clearly don't know shit about those brands, stop acting like you do. Both of those brands have made pieces that fit a variety of sizes, go check their catalogues/measurements on lolibrary you dumb newshit.

>>10722263
How fat are talking here? You need to specify because this board throws the term "fat" around so meaninglessly all the time. When I say there VM/MM both have made several pieces that fit larger people, I'm referring to women on the small end of plus size. Obviously those brands will never fit a morbidly obese person.

>>10704166
Does anyone know why the plus plus is international only? Japan has plus size normie clothes section in plenty of clothing stores so it's not like it's because they don't have fat people

>>10722271
I guess they figured the single plus is big enough for fat Japanese customers since fat people in Japan tend to be less fat than western fat people becauseof lifestyle, height, social pressure to be healthy, etc. They've also explicitly stated the longer and bigger plus plus size was a way to sort of thank international customers. Not totally sure otherwise.

>>10704165
Agreed. I like quarter back shirring with corset lacing for comfort but full back shirring looks lumpy and unflattering on everyone, both skinny and fat people. It also tends to hang awkwardly off my back because I don’t stretch it out enough and my bust isn’t even under the minimum measurements. Fully shirred backs with halterneck straps are the worst because then there’s nothing to keep the fabric up. And no I’m not buying the plus sizes, most of my Meta is from before they offered those.

One size fits most is nice, but it also means that that one size flatters no one.

>>10722264
I’ve been in the fashion for a decade and own over 80 main pieces, all brand and all VM, MM and old moitie. Almost anything actually good from those brands will not fit a fatty idk why you’re acting like they will and getting so mad lmao

>>10722366
Also, just went out of my way to check for you for some reason and the average waist size is 68cm on an MM piece and 70cm for VM. Idk how someone fat unless very short and small framed is going to attempt that.

>>10722370
I notice a lot of fat people are relatively short in this fashion, but being a short/petite if someone is waist size 68 or 70..then good lord that is insanely large. The only VM blouse I have bags on me in like the shoulders and whatnot, so I have a hard time thinking that in stature the clothing was meant for short people.

>>10722373
Like I said I suppose a fat person who’s short could attempt it, but in general you’re not going to be able to if a more average western height; they’re simply not made for a larger body frame and one measurement needs to give, either vertical or horizontal haha! If you’re over 5”3 you need to be at least somewhat slim to wear it IMO, and if over 5”7, you def need to be skinny.

When I got a little fat for a while during a period of depression I was limited to 10 out of 80 pieces in my wardrobe and I was only like 10lb overweight for my height and I’m like 5”5

>>10695613
shut up

>>10722310
Have you been to Japan? I used to go shopping and at some of the department stores they carry fuckhuge tents. Used to make me sad when I would see an item that was cute but only came in 3-5x. For some reason the styles were either different between plus and regular at Aeon, or all the cute regular size completely sold out every time before I could get it

>>10722173
>>10722187
>>10722175
>>10722194
>>10722186
The dumbest part is that I know like half a dozen troons and nearly all of them have crippling social anxiety. They all spent months "boymoding", AKA taking estrogen while staying completely closeted in order to avoid making things uncomfortable for others if they don't pass. And then these fucking weirdo boomer sissy fetishists just waltz in and make everyone obviously uncomfortable with no self-awareness. Meanwhile all the tranners I know would rather die than even wear a bikini.

>>10722746
>no self-awareness
They know what they’re doing. Making us uncomfortable but unable to do anything about it is part of the power play.

>>10722746
>Meanwhile all the tranners I know would rather die than even wear a bikini.
All the troons I know openly post fetish pics of them wearing thigh highs or cat ears or whatever. They constant insert their promiscuity into conversations where it isn't asked for. And these are young troons, not old boomers.

Haven't been on cgl for weeks, is lolita dead yet?

>>10701660
Bigot Rose maybe?

Lolita has been dying for at least ten years now

>>10722373
Wait so are you saying that a 5'0 person with a 70 waist is fat?

>>10722386
>When I got a little fat for a while during a period of depression I was limited to 10 out of 80 pieces in my wardrobe and I was only like 10lb overweight for my height and I’m like 5”5
How did you cope with this? Did you just decide to lose the weight to fit your wardrobe again?

>>10723145
Nyart, but yes. Your body’s proportions are dependent on height

>>10722988
Lolita feels constantly dead until it isn't. The 2nd hand market is basically a drought until coveted pieces go up for sale

>>10722939
Where did she go? She took the money for her book preorder then disappeared. I hope whoever bought a book got one in the end.

Can I ask how some of you handle friends who constantly bring up their weight in a negative way in the fashion?

A couple of my friends who are overweight will often remark: "Oh that won't fit me" if I just share a new release with them or link them to something I think they may like. Sometimes they will randomly bring up their weight in a negative way while we are talking about something completely unrelated in the fashion. I have a close family member who died from an ED which I am still hurting from so it makes me really uncomfortable but I feel like if I say anything it will be taken the wrong way? It also makes me really sad seeing them feel like this but when I try to be supportive and tell them positive things about themselves, it's like they don't hear it. Now I feel too nervous to even talk about the fashion at all with them because it seems to always stem back to them being upset about their weight even though I would never dream of bringing something like that up.

Does anyone else know how to deal with this? These are IRL friends in the fashion who I have know for a number of years.

>>10723168
Just tell them like an adult, what is wrong with you

>>10723163
“Hey it feels like you use every possible opportunity to bring up your weight, always in a negative way, and it makes me uncomfortable. I feel like all of our discussions end about you talking about your weight. I have personal reasons that make me want to avoid these sorts of discussions.” There. Straight from the spoon.

>>10723168

Cut them out.

Had a lolita do that passive aggressively to me at a meet. Like fuck that noise if you're rude, overweight, and dressed badly, you don't deserve my time.

>>10722173
This. Fucking 50+ year old OBVIOUS sissies being accepted into comms and cof caused a bigger exodus than anything else. Sensible women literally fled from comms and online spaces that allow this disgusting shit to fly.

>>10723273
I think cgl will see a slow resurgence as lolitas flee online spaces, because mods are too busy kissing sissy and fetishist ass to protect real lolitas. The lolita subreddit just had a post from a ddlger today. Luckily she deleted her filthy post.

>>10723265
Do what to you? OP's friends aren't even being mean to her, they're shitting on themselves

>>10723290
It is entirely possible to weaponize self pity and self hate, and to use that to make other people self conscious. If someone never shut up about being fat around me, it would be suspicious as hell. I’m not going to make them skinny, and if they can’t talk about anything else they’re either self-obsessed or they want me to go “noooo you’re not fat!”

>>10723168
I’ve had a lot of friends like this over the years and it’s toxic as hell, especially because they made no secret of resenting me for being able to fit things they couldn’t. Like you I never brought up their weight in any way, would actively avoid subjects that might trigger this response and only ever tried to be positive and encouraging, but it was never enough. If I offered to be gym buddies or help them make healthier meals (because they complained about lack of support/motivation for those things) they would turn it around on me and say I was fatshaming them. I even offered to sew cute clothes for their measurements but that wasn’t good enough either because they “want to look the way [I] do in [my] clothes”. The only thing that seemed to make them feel a little better was if I dressed in oversized jeans and hoodies and hid myself away.

Eventually I started to grey rock them whenever they brought up their weight. Instead of reassuring them and complimenting them I only replied with “hmm” and “okay” and changed the subject. It cost me a few friendships but in hindsight that was for the best, because those people were emotional vampires who never reciprocated my empathy anyway. The others mostly got the hint and stopped complaining as much and one even decided to take charge of her weight issues and managed to lose most of it. Now she’s even less tolerant of weight-related whining than I am. Unfortunately she’s not into lolita anymore.

>>10723281
You say that like cgl isn’t also a scrote fest. See recent comments about jannies deleting the relevant thread about the fluffy tori incident, while allowing super obvious scrote/troll threads to flourish

>>10722264
>go check their catalogues/measurements on lolibrary you dumb newshit.
>implying those are accurate
I swear it's always newfags calling others newfag. I bet this is exactly what you did.

>>10723290

Essentially what >>10723299 says. Passive aggressively negging for being "too skinny" while being fake self deprecating is a favorite tactic of fat people who are insecure. My friend had to put up with it for years from someone and it certainly did not help her eating disorder.

>>10723394
That passive aggressive skinny-shaming behavior is unacceptable but if you have an ED that is on the restriction side then yeah you probably are too thin. The reality is fat people (over a certain size) also clearly have EDs or food addiction too. Even so they are still too big and need to lose weight. As someone who had EDs on both ends of the spectrum (first thin, then large after recovering and then losing weight normally), this pity party for skinny ED havers and shitting on fat people who also have similar mental issues reeks of bullshit. You feel more sympathy for the thin person because they're more aesthetically pleasing, not because they have an ED objectively. I saw it myself with the same exact people and my situation. We should just create an environment where people stop commenting on others' bodies or demanding others gain or lose weight for our sake and comfort when they need to work on their mental and physical heath for their sake.

>>10723378
Cgl is shit obviously, but at least the ita thread still exists. That’s all I need, nonny.

>>10723404

I.... Ok. Nice blog I guess. Glad you got your stuff figured out, but just fyi my friend never did or said anything to that person, wtf. I feel sympathy for my friend because she is my friend and was in a shitty friend group, that one person among them, not because she is skinny. Literally just be nice to everybody and don't neg.

>>10723404
You're telling me that a skelly girl is going to get more attention and sympathy than a hamplanet that looks like 40% of the US population? Crazy, must be muh beauty standards. Obesity is so common, if everyone is fat no one will see it as a problem or illness.

>>10723404
Who the fuck actually gets offended by skinny shaming? Whenever people tell me I'm skinny or complain about themselves being fat, I just read it as jealousy. There is no downside to being skinny unless you are someone with an eating disorder, in which case you probably enjoy being told you look skinny.

>>10723580

I mean people already explained why earlier in the thread but go off I guess.

>>10723580
Tell me you're not actually skinny without telling me you're not actually skinny. Anyone who is actually thin has experienced skinny shaming at some point in their lives, ESPECIALLY at the hands of insecure fat/large people.

>>10723580
Ayrt, skinny shaming is real. My mom skinny shamed my sister when she was younger and fat shamed me (when I was hwalthy weight). I ended up ana/Mia and sis ended up with a complex when she lost weight due to her thyroid. My best friend is thin too and got shamed into wanting to lift and gain weight by coworkers.

>>10722173
>He spent the entire time touching me without my permission on my waist and shoulders, and kept saying he wanted me to dress him up and that he wanted to be a cute little lolita doll
>When i complained about him and said I felt unsafe, I was told I was being a bully to a 47 year old man when I was a literal minor.
I'm 3 days late to this but it surprises me for some reason that stories like these are common on multiple websites. I don't know how recent was this but god oh god when did sissies/troons figure out comms are an easy way in to vulnerable minors and why the fuck do the generally older female mods put up with it? Is it illegal to claim that a sissy/troon is trying to molest you or something? How does a 17 year old bully a 47 year old man?
>>10723422
Definitely true, even if it gets derailed sometimes.

>>10723168
I mean if you send something that you think they'll like and don't take their measurement into account then "that wont fit me" is a perfectly valid response. I personally have a little cheat sheet between my friends so I'll know what to link them, but you don't have to do this, I just find it makes conversation about actual purchases flow a lot easier.

A lot of being overweight is mental, and it's something they have to work on themselves- no matter how many positive things you say it will not help them as much as you want it to, and that's something you have to come to accept.

It is very hard to be overweight/oversized in lolita. A lot of measurements and little quips really grind down your self esteem, which don't exactly make it easy to lose weight when your only coping mechanism is eating.

Like the other anon said, talk to them honestly but kindly and be open to their views.

>>10723603
I've been clinically underweight my entire adult life and have never been offended by "skinny shaming" because I can tell it's thinly veiled jealousy by fat people. Why the fuck would I be offended when I am literally the thing people aspire to be?

>>10723615
I could understand how it would be harmful if it's by a parent during your formative years. But when you're an adult and some random fattir is doing it, who fucking cares

>>10723600
No, they didn't really. They just said that it hurts their feefees. But I don't understand why because it's not even something to be ashamed of, especially not in lolita. Actual ana-chans usually love hearing about how skinny they are.

>>10723688
Just because my body type is “skinny” and more conventionally praised doesn’t mean I’m open to random people or even friends making comments about my body and size. I don’t care who it is, or how helpful/jealous they think they’re being it’s super uncomfortable and unwelcome.

>>10723694
But why is it "uncomfortable" at all? I can understand why it's annoying to have to feel like you need to comfort them for being fat or something, but are you actually offended? I have never ever been offended because I know I'm the aesthetic that looks good in lolita. Maybe if I was trying to be some rap video vixen then yeah I would be offended that my ass isn't huge.

>>10723702
It's because people are insecure. So they place a lot of weight in other people's comments instead of just looking at the situation objectively

>>10723705
There's also the fact even outside of insecurity that everyone isn't concerned about whether or not their body is desirable or meets a standard, whether you're fat or thin unsolicited comments on your body are weird and intrusive.

Even if it's technically a compliment or the size others want to be, it's rude and weird when someone comments on my weight or size being so tiny or something. You don't have to be "offended" for someone's behavior to be inappropriate/rude and make you uncomfortable.

>>10723708
They're not asking you about your vagina or something. They're just pointing out what everyone can already see, usually in a complimentary or astonished way. I've never been told I "need to eat more" by anyone other than my mom, so maybe I'm not seeing any rudeness about it. I just get the usual "omg ur so skinny!!" or "your waist is so small!" and I'm like "haha thanks". It seems like a very stupid thing to get butthurt about.

>>10723709
Continuining on this, now that I think about it, I actually have been told by distant family members that I need to eat more. I usually just brush it off and say that I like the way I look. It's really not very offensive because why would it be. Being skinny is attractive when everyone tends to be fat

>>10723709
Nayrt, but It gets really on your nerves after a while. Not sure if anon is also referring to those situation where a someone taller or fatter than you comes to comment on your size/weight. It's really uncomfortable, I never know what to say: "haha, yeah. Such a thing, right?"

>>10723709
A lot of people dislike comments on weight gain, loss, and size in general because it is often connected to their health. For example, many people I know with chronic illnesses including myself hate it when we get comments about how great our body looks when we were already a healthy weight and lost 20lbs because of our health actually being quite shit for months. And I'm sure someone with depression who gained weight because of meds or someone with an injury who lost muscle due to being unable to workout would hate hearing even positive comments about that change because it's a reminder of something shitty they may still be actively dealing with. Not to mention those with eating disorders. It's not so much being offended or upset, it's just considerate not to discuss it.

Is it that hard to find something to talk about besides others' bodies, and weight in particular? Considering how many lolita related subjects exist or how much you can talk about appearance in a way that never touches weight in lolita especially, it seems rather easy to avoid and has never been an issue for me or my comm unless people bring it up themselves and want to discuss weight loss progress or health or something.

>>10723719
This. This. This. I swear some of y’all just aren’t skinny enough to be dealing with this on the regular. I’ve had people in the store literally pinch my waist and tell me to eat more. I’ve had doctors refuse to actually listen to my symptoms and just insist I have an ED. I’ve had larger friends talk about how they wish they could look like me. I had relatives make fun of me and say I wasn’t a real woman because of my small hips and bust. It’s just totally unnecessary and weird to make comments about someone’s weight, regardless of whether someone’s fat or skinny.

>>10723724
What the fuck? I have literally been 89 lbs before and have never gotten any of this. Even doctors who have told me I might need to put on weight ease off when I explained that my mother was also as skinny as me at her age. Is it a cultural thing where you live?

>>10723719
I can't relate. I also have a chronic illness that directly affects my weight and makes me extremely thin, but I just explain that instead of getting butthurt like a child.

>>10723714
>I never know what to say: "haha, yeah. Such a thing, right?"
I mean, that's exactly what I say. It's really not very uncomfortable. Just kind of a standard response to a compliment

>>10723724
I’ve had similar problems, being mocked for being skinny, told to eat more, eat a cheeseburger, the whole nine yards and then some. You can’t win as a woman, skinny or fat, because someone will always want to tell you how THEY think you should look/what you should weigh. I almost developed an eating disorder when I did gain a few pounds because it feels like everyone is waiting to mock me for gaining any weight.

>>10723724
>>10723730
Only in America

>>10723154
I decided to lose weight in general as I realised being miserable had made me fat and it became a viscous cycle that kept me fat. I changed a ton of life situations and took control of it again.

when the weight came off I remembered my wardrobe packed away and actually realised just how much I still loved the fashion, and how nice it was to be in touch with that part of myself again.
I’ve started buying main pieces, some new accessories, and blouses to refresh an ageing wardrobe too.

It feels great and I wouldn’t trade this for the world. I feel like I lost sight of the things I enjoyed that made me happy because of life stuff and let it effect my weight and I’m determined to not let it happen again. I’m realising cgl was also horrible for my mental health back then as it probably is now, so I’ll probably limit my time here and the threads I visit. It really brings out the worst in me I think

>>10723755
>I decided to lose weight in general as I realized being miserable had made me fat and it became a viscous cycle that kept me fat. I changed a ton of life situations and took control of it again.
nta but me too anon! I'm down 20 lbs at this point and am very happy with the results, I'm not near my goal yet but the change has made me feel so much better about myself and my clothes are already fitting more loosely!
Seeing fatlitas squeeze themselves into dresses always made me sad and I never want to look like them, taking control of my health is the best decision I have ever made.

>>10723755
Hey good job anon! I’m so happy for you. Welcome back to the fashion :-)

>>10723727
I'm not hurt or upset by it, but it's exhausting. You sound like you're making things up because people who actually chronic illnesses typically get tired of spending their entire lives explaining their health to nosy people who act entitled to discussion about or body or life or whatever the fuck.

Even if it didn't bother me at all, it bothers others and it's normal human behavior to be willing to go to reasonable lengths to accommodate others' comfort, barring anything extreme. The fact you are defending it so much makes it seem like you're the asshole always commenting on others' bodies with brain-dead takes like how you wish you could be sick like us so you could be thin more easily.

>>10722373
>waist size 26”-27”

That’s a perfectly normal waist size even for short women, what are you talking about.

>>10723159
> Your body’s proportions are dependent on height

That’s not true, you can have a large frame or short frame, you can have an athletic frame.

>>10723689

It's annoying as fuck and you have the freedom to be the annoying fuck, but know that no one will like you, that's all

>>10723801
I'm the one receiving the "annoying" compliments and I like hearing compliments or knowing people envy me. Just stop being a pussy about it

>>10723807

Well to each their own. Enjoy that fantasy anon.

>>10723807
Nta but you sound like a weird insecure child.

>>10723377
Thank you so much for sharing your experience, this gave me a lot of perspective. I am sorry you have experienced similar things when you just wanted to be a supportive friend, it is a really hard spot to be in. This has been going on for years with a few different friends but I feel like if I am honest, I am going to provoke them because most are very opinionated people. I am a little tall for some brands so I do understand frustration about some things not fitting but I try to focus on the positives of what I can wear and keep any complaints to my thoughts.

I am going to try this Grey Rock approach because like you, no amount of positive support ever seemed to be enough. I would usually keep it to how beautiful I thought they were (and I was being honest, not lying) but it happens so frequently that I think you're right that after a point you have to give up.

It felt so discouraging when I shared that I got a WL dress during the holidays (an oldschool OP) and my friend said how lucky I was because she loved that dress too but could never fit it. Another friend didn't want to watch the btssb fashion show together because "I gained too much weight last year so it's not like I can even buy anything" which made me feel really uncomfortable for asking. I never really thought about this sort of thing is technically toxic, so thank you and to >>10723299 >>10723394 as well.

>>10723684
Thank you for the input. When I share things it is mostly just something that I think looks cute, not with the intent of You Should Buy This. They do they same with me even when I am trying to save money but I just thank them for thinking of me and tell them I think it's cute. But I appreciate the feedback. I do feel like I can't be open with most of them though because they are strongly opinionated but I realize that is a me issue.

Sorry for the long reply.

>>10723813
I'm insecure for...not feeling insecure from "skinny shaming"? What retard logic is that

>>10723810
It's not a fantasy if you have confidence. Treat yourself better anon. Don't let a tub of lard make you feel ugly for being slim.

>>10723822
No one said the shaming made them feel insecure. They said constant comments or inquiries about your body and health just because you're thin can be annoying. Which it can and is.

It's just weird and insecure to hype oneself up as "what other people envy" or whatever else as if it's difficult or adds to your value as a person or to society that you did the bare minimum of not being obese. Sounds like some shit someone immature or a literal child would say. Caring about what others think of you to the point of reveling in the thought of being envied is odd, to say the least. I don't care what people think about my body, but it is fucking annoying when they won't leave me alone and harass or bother me about it.

>>10723856
People in this thread literally admitted it hurts their feelings, and that they feel they have to console jealous fat friends. I didn't just whip that out of my ass.

And yes, being thin is the beauty standard for both lolita and normies. You don't need to be "insecure" to know that's a fact. If some fattie literally says "I wish I was your size", am I supposed to assume they're NOT envious?

I don't find compliments like that annoying because it's not something I'm insecure about. I just accept the compliment and move on instead of whining about being uncomfortable. If they're actively trying to insult me then I put them in their place.

>>10721804
Hey nonny, if you're still here, that VM blouse is currently up for sale on fril!

>>10723923
>thinks harassment is a compliment
moid detected

>>10723958
>Actually thinks "wow you're so thin" is harassment
They/them detected

>>10723168
People who are insecure about their weight/body should quit lolita for their own good

>>10723733
No, I live in Europe and deal with this a lot.

>ITT
imagine being such an autist that you can't comprehend that it's inappropriate/unwelcome to make comments about somebody else's body. It's not about being offended or not, you just look like a fucking twat and there's so much information you don't know about and could be stirring up. It's fucking rude. Being so insecure that you wish someone would come up to you and say how skinny you look doesn't make it a compliment for everyone.

Note that men rarely get these comments, and if you were to go up to a guy and so "OMG you're so skinny" that would absolutely be considered fucking rude.

Why is /cgl/ like this?

>>10724067
Men literally do get that. Have you ever spoken to a skinny man?

Lolita is alive because the handful of quality lolita brands (basically just btssb) and the secondhand market are keeping it alive. Don't even come at me with clolita, it's gonna die out as quick as it got popular.

>>10722173
grodeur formidable
le ogre spergatif

>>10724388
china is keeping it alive, both by being the main buyers of japanese brands and having their own brands too. if china loses interest, you can expect brand quality and quantity to plummet, if not disappear

>>10724993
THIS. For all the shit we give Chinese lolitas we really should be grateful for them, because the west can't even begin to provide the same level of brand support.

>>10724994
Kinda like a parasite that's become so deeply tied to the host that the host will die if you remove it

>>10724993
Brand quality and quantity is already plummeting because of them

>>10725010
Would you rather brands die off completely, raising secondhand prices forever?

>>10725013
Secondhand prices are already going up because new releases are shit and don't compare to the old ones

>>10724996
I'm crying. This is so accurate

I would give anything for 2007-2010 AP dresses to be re-released. I'm in polyester print hell

>>10724996
This and
>>10725016
This.

Honestly I do think lolita is dying. It's already turned into a mostly collector hobby (because good pieces are getting so rare) and the pandemic catapulted it there. The state of brands/secondhand is so bad that if I were starting now instead of 6-7 years ago, I wouldn't even bother.

>>10725164
Only good pieces for AP are rare. Best brand Baby is having a Renaissance.

Maybe sweetfags have a different perspective. But as for classic, Lolita is definitely declining greatly. IW is not even a shadow of what it used to be, VM's designers are both retiring at the time time (on top of also having strange releases these past years) and MM is defunct. Seems like almost nobody wears classic anymore.

>>10725181
I’m glad baby has most of its shit together and still put out cotton stuff

>>10725199
Kumya’s love heart embroidery is one of the best sweet lolita releases in YEARS, people who sleep on baby are idiots

>>10725203
>people who sleep on baby are idiots
It's not that btssb is bad or anything, but I tried liking them and the whole feel of the brand isn't for me. Also I hate bears, so that doesn't really work.

>>10725203
I assure you no one is sleeping on Baby it's the most popular and iconic lolita brand of all time

>>10725309
A lot of newbs and APfags do. Pure idiocy. Baby definitely isn’t as iconic as AP in the west, but it’s hands down the best brand imho.

>>10723580
that is some CRT bullshit logic lol anyone can be bullied for any reason by anyone and it hurts just as much. stop being a bitch to everyone just because you ~feel~ they arent oppressed

>>10725203
>>10725311
Baby fans are just more quiet about their love - I have been an APfag for the past decade but I'm getting sick of their shitty releases. Might have to jump ship and become a Baby fan.

>>10725190
I also wear classic and I don't think that no one wears classic, I think we just don't have a lot of fresh blood coming into it. All the more established lolitas I know have at least one classic piece in their wardrobe or are more aware of the style but then we have newbies who don't even really understand what classic is. They seem to think just because something isn't print heavy that it's boring and there's no variation which couldn't be further from the truth. Classic is the forgotten middle sister of lolita in this way. There's so much you can do with the style while still retaining the elegance that makes it classic. I wish more new lolitas would see that but the reality is a lot of them only care about flashy prints, specifically AP, taobao or western indie. It's hard enough to get them to care about BTSSB.

VM is the only brand I care about buying new from anymore. I hope that they continue to rerelease old stuff but I'm also super paranoid about them becoming another moitie. IW is near impossible to buy from because they have no stock, seeing them close that beautiful store was heartbreaking. MM feels long gone and it's devastating, their dresses are what I always wanted to wear when I was a preteen first learning about lolita and now that I can finally afford to support them, they're gone.

Classic that isn't IW is always overpriced and few and far between on the secondhand market too, I guess because we hold on to our shit. I always hear sweet lolitas in my comm complain about losing out on pieces but I'm more jealous that they can actually find stuff their style constantly circulating. I'd rather have insanely inflated prices with stuff going around than literal crickets.

>>10725322
CRT has nothing to do with fat and skinny and average people all being assholes to one another.

>>10725327
Same feel except Baby doesn't have the same "fun" and "whimsy" that 2010 AP did. No brand currently does. It's all just... boring. Guess I'll go rot in my closet.

>>10723688
you're not offended because you're autistic it's okay.

>>10725398
>having confidence is autism
seethe

>>10725389
I can understand what you mean. I think the closest we've gotten to whimsy was the Swinging Strawberry set

>>10725311
Is this really true? I live close enough to the US shop that I can visit when I want, but I had no idea that around the country people didn't find it iconic.

>>10725307
Some of their older cuts aren't my favorite, and sometimes their prints can fall short, but recently their oldschool stuff and even kumya designs have been adorable.

>>10725400
you're clearly not confident if you need to reply to let everyone know. fake it till you make it doesn't always work.

>>10725411
>having a conversation about confidence
>not allowed to mention your own confidence
whatever makes you feel better about your insecurity anon

https://egl.livejournal.com/18968543.html
>2012

>>10725486
So? Are you saying that the situation in 2022 is exactly the same as the one in 2012? People having the same concerns since the dawn of times doesn't mean anything. All things come to an end eventually, it's legitimate to have these discussions.

>>10696420
Japan's version of fat and America's fat levels are literally a thousand pounds apart.

>>10699479
Obese size underwear is now art.

And yes, due to the overwhelming influx of people who didn't give a fuck about the lolita history, quality of presentation, silhouette required, stables, the snowflakes at hearts all lead on by YouTubers like clown fetish, sissy quality coord Lor; Fluffy Joe with her Wish collection of coords; joined now by beard loving Tyler we have itas leading the fashion into the depths of despairing loss. And calling them ita really is being gracious because most this shit isn't even an attempt to be lolita. RIP Elegant Gothic Lolita. We are now Exhumed Garbage Loritas.

>>10725424
you're just so insecure.

>>10724993
they're going to pivot to chinese lolita eventually.

>>10725567
I didn't say it's not legitimate, just offering some perspective. Most of the concerns have been roughly the same over time.
>New people coming in that don't respect the history or understand quality
>Brands going out of business
>The aesthetic is changing too much
But ten years later, there's a renewed interest in old designs and an unanticipated amount of rereleases. I also remember some hand wringing over bodyline and taobao when it was new for low quality.

Lolita has been around for over twenty years now, that's insanely long for a fashion trend. Imo it's safely joined the ranks of styles like goth and punk that don't really go anywhere, though trends within then come and go.

>>10725605
>Lolita has been around for over twenty years now
newfag kek

What do you think would revitalize/sustain lolita?

As much as I hate to say it, I actually think lolita in the west makes the most sense as a convention-adjacent, cosplay-adjacent activity, especially with the decline of comms. I just went to a con for the first time in years, and I realize that people in the US who would be interested in wearing lolita have a ton of crossover with cosplay/general weeb devices.

As much as I hate the work of lor/jo and other shillers, I don't think that their absence would make anything better, and would probably make things worse. I wish they would give better advice and not try to scam people for $200 antaina shoes, but I don't think that new-litas would be more likely to invest in high-quality clothing if they weren't there. And I know that they do genuinely introduce new people to the fashion.

>>10725606
Retard

>>10725611
It’s been around wayyy longer than that anon. Over 40. My guess is >>10725605
is basing that based on APs anniversary because that’s the only thing they know.

>>10725612
anon no.

>>10725612
No, I just don't count proto Lolita from the 80s that's barely recognizable like an autist. You're the newfag who doesn't even know this conversation happens ever four years, you think you can fool me with "ackshually lolita has been around since the 80s", fuck off newfag.

>>10725610
Tying Lolita to anime culture has always been a mixed bag. On the one hand, most people learn about Lolita through their interest in all things weeby. On the other hand, it shoe horns Lolita fashion into the costume category.

Personally, I think brands taking a more globalized approach would help a lot. Offering plus sizes and changing their business model revitalized Meta and has made it a go-to brand for western sizing. Globally, pretty much every country is fatter than Japan, and their population is shrinking drastically. If they want to stay at the forefront of Lolita then they should start catering to the broader market, otherwise taobao brands who offer multiple sizes at an eighth of the price will dominate.

>>10725614
Anon. Ap was founded in 1979. Baby was founded in 1988. It’s much older than 20 years, go suck a lemon.

>>10725616
Yeah, I think it would be healthier for Lolita if more people just wore it more as a normal fashion instead of saving it for cons and meets. The focus would shift more to quality than costumey stuff too.

>>10725618
That’s a good point.

>>10725617
Pretty sure Heavy syrup is from like 1975 or something. One of the first brands carried at “Pretty” before it became Angelic Pretty. They’re not “proto” at all either, some of the cuts they did are still seen today.

>>10725617
It's generally accepted that it became an established subculture in the 90s. AP and Baby didn't always make what we recognize today as lolita. Only autists argue that it's been around for 40 years because some brands in Japan occasionally made dresses that looked similar. You might as well argue it's technically been around for hundreds of years because some of the cuts are the same as Victorian children's dresses

>>10725622
Are you really not able to distinguish brand continuity from Victorian design inspiration? Lolita has changed quite a bit from the 90s till now too, whole new cuts have been introduced that wouldn’t be recognized as Lolita back then. The same people who established Pretty and Baby became the current bulwarks of the fashion. I’m guessing you haven’t really looked at their earliest blog posts and adverts, but pretty was selling the Lolita aesthetic even in the 80s.

>>10725617
Anon is right. Shirley Temple was founded in 1974, algongquins in 78 I think, and heart E in 78 too. Kawaii fashion in general original in the 70s, and there were lolita brands producing before the 80’s that still make clothes today.

>>10725622
The earliest print reference to Lolita fashion being called Lolita was in 1987, so it was certainly used word of mouth before then

>>10725622
Jane Marple was an almost exclusively Lolita brand in the 80s. Vivienne westwoods early stuff is also pretty distinctly lolita Silhouette. The famous rocking horse shoes were released in the mid 80s.

>>10725625
Some brands that make lolita now existing in the 1970s doesn't mean Lolita as a subculture existed since the 1970s.

>>10725629
>An exclusively Lolita brand before the term for the style even existed
You guys are really having a hard time with the concept that clothes vaguely in this style could exist before it was an established subculture. It's generally accepted to have been established in the 90s.

>>10725630
Not as a subculture, as a fashion. You need to go look at some Lolita history archives. Also see >>10725626. Clearly there was an existing understanding of Lolita before the end of the 80’s.

>>10725633
When you’re calculating how old something is, you don’t start from when it became popular, you start from when it started. Angelic Pretty has always sold the Lolita aesthetic, even when previously branded as pretty. If they were established in 1979, it’s safe to say that Lolita fashion is at least as old as they are.

>>10725636
Okay, I'll go look at some history archives. I know rainedragon has been in looks for ages and has a lot of well sourced history posts on her blog. I wonder what she thinks?
>Lolita Fashion is a street fashion / subculture that originated in Japan in the 1990s
Wow! Amazing.

>>10725637
This. The subculture emerged as a cohesive movement later but the actual fashion itself has its roots in the late 70s alongside kawaii culture in general.

>>10725638
Even if it popped up out of the blue in the 90s (which the two most popular brands were founded before) that would still make it over 30 years ya old fart. Sorry you’re over 30 now too kek.

>>10725637
Not when it's fashion. Researchers use phrases like "had its roots in," "became established in", "early influences were seen in", and "reached it's peak" in. You're confusing the "early influences" stage with the "established" stage.

>>10725629
Have you seen 80s Jane marple? It looked absolutely nothing like lolita and wasnt even called that. Unless you think all poofy dresses are lolita?

>>10725636
Here's another history post with pictures that explains pretty clearly why the mid to late 90s is considered the starting point.
http://www.fyeahlolita.com/2010/02/old-school-lolita-in-90s-80s-and-70s.html?m=1

>>10702285
I did some digging on this. I managed to find only one series that had been praised by Japanese reviewers for actually featuring lolita fashion and not maid cosplay that often gets mislabeled as lolita.

>>10725644
I’m blocked from uploading images due to a sweeping ip ban, but Jane Marple has Lolita stuff on lolibrary in 88. It’s not catalogued there but baby started releasing in 88. Shirley Temple had Lolita aesthetic from the start too, since 1974. MILK and pink house are even older. As a fashion trend the Lolita style and aesthetic is incredibly enduring, and there’s still styles today that mirror the earliest brands Pretty carried in the 80s.

>>10725652
Pink house isn't lolita
Honestly it just sounds like you read on social media that some of these brands started in the 70s and 80s and autistically decided that means Lolita started in the 70s and 80s despite pretty much any researched Lolita history writing demonstrating that's wrong

>>10725653
Pretty opened their Lolita fashion store in the late 70s. Lolita is referenced in print media in the mid 80s. Baby started in 88. Just because it wasn’t a solidified movement doesn’t mean it didn’t exist before the 90s peak.

>>10725653
Milk was founded in 1970, and nearly all their early stuff through the early 2000s was Lolita.

>>10725660
Pretty was not selling Lolita in the 70s and they weren't even selling their own brand. I don't know why you have so much trouble with the concept that "brands that sell Lolita now, and also existed in the 70s" isn't the same thing as "Lolita started in the 70s". Seriously read any of the sources I've referenced this is just embarrassing

>>10725665
Not sure if you're aware of this but stores and brands actually sell different stuff over time

>>10725666
I think you need to look at the brands Pretty stocked at the time. These were pretty distinctly Lolita aesthetics . Plus it lolita fashion is mentioned in magazines dated in the 80s. I’m not sure why you’re so hell bent on insisting it didn’t exist till the nineties when there is so much evidence that it did.

Once again, even if that’s 100% correct, Lolita is still much older than 20 years.

It's very clear who hasn't read this book ITT

>>10725671
Read the fyeahlolita link and rainedragon's blog. Or any other knowledgeable lolita's blog that talks about lolita history. They will also say that those brands started in the 70s and 80s and influenced Lolita fashion but Lolita fashion really started in the 90s.

This thread encapsulates why Lolita is dying. Autistic sandy cunts arguing about inane shit that doesn’t even matter with no end in sight. This is the kind of retarded bickering that really invites people in kek

>>10725675
Still haven’t explained references to the fashion in print media in the 80s. Plus if it’s in print media, it’s probably been a thing for at least a few years prior.

>>10725678
Okay why don't you just post some of this clearly lolita stuff from established and well known lolita brands in the 80s since it totally existed back then. Should be easy.

>>10725680
Dodged the question. Why don’t you explain these references to a fashion that didn’t exist yet?

>>10725682
Words have different meanings and Lolita has always meant something related to little girls in Japan because of the novel's influence. Now let's see some of this awesome 80s lolita, it shouldn't be too hard, I mean I can walk into any thrift store here and find 80s stuff because it's not really that long ago so there must be tons of examples of lolita from the 80s. Surely somebody, somewhere has found a vintage 80s Lolita dress from an official Lolita brand like Pretty or Baby?

"During the 1970s, Milk’s original concept was Gothic Lolita. This is said to have a big influence on the shop’s clothing trend. “GothLoli” style came from Victorian-era clothing. "

Milk was established in 1970.

"the beginnings of Lolita fashion can be seen emerging from companies such as Milk,
Pink House and Angelic Pretty, companies that pioneered Lolita fashion in the early 1970s."

>>10725686
Nope try again, it's in a 1987 interview that's pretty universally accepted as the earliest print reference to lolita fashion.

>>10725690
It must have been pretty established by 1987 then. Let's see some pics already.

>>10725692
Ip banned from uploading. But take a look around yourself. Early heavy syrup, milk, and Pretty pics are all out there. But yeah I’m sure all the references and to these early brands are totally wrong because Lolita wasn’t a thing till January 1 1990

>>10725694
Okay sure there are tons of pictures you just aren't allowed to upload them and apparently can't link to them either. Lol.

Ask yourself why rainedragon, fyeahlolita, and other people who have actually researched the history all cite the 90s as when the fashion actually started

>>10725696
Ah yes and they were all there at the time, and not tiny weeb babies. Where do you think this sprouted from? Lolita fashion, as a concept, has a continuous history in Japan from the early 70s. It is minimally 32 years old, and maximally around 50 years old. It’s got a really long and rich history as fashion sun styles go, so I’m not sure why you’re so hell bent on reducing that to the 90s and acting like it began solely with the social/youth movement of the Japanese bubble.

>>10725618
I totally agree

https://discord.gg/rakpXVXR perhaps