/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10470586
>Will this be the death of fan art?
We can only hope so

>>10470621
>Being buttmad about fanart
>Thinking it'll give their shit OCs a chance to finally sell, as if fanart were the problem.
Okay anon

why is the saturation cranked out on the new thumbnail lmao

>>10470755
I was curious about this too, I thought I was having a stroke

>>10470755
Because we need some color in this dull ass year.

tfw actual skilllful fanart illustrations or fanmerch with good design is going to disappear from cons before the hundreds of booths selling shitty vector versions of official art or just flat out filtered screenshots even slightly decrease

>>10470888
This. I'll never understand why companies choose to go after fan art illustrators so hard instead of punishing people who make bootleg merch using official art.
Their issue is that people are making money off of their IP, right? So why not go absolutely ham people who straight up reprint manga/comic panels, trace official art, etc since those are blatant IP violations?

How the fuck to I stop sitting like a shrimp?
Can't sit down to draw like a regular person anymore

>>10470988
Get a cintiq arm for your tablet and then get a gamer chair so you can lean back in a reclined position

>>10470888
can't wait to go to cons where the only fandom merch available is funko pops and bows made from licensed printed fabric!

>>10470888
selling fanart is technically illegal sooo. it was always kind of fucked up that fanartists have been making money off other people's ip anyway.

>>10471043
>when the originating country supports fanartists and encourages them
Keep licking that boot, American are just greedy people.

>>10471051
In fairness, Japanese companies are probably more willing to turn a blind eye because nobody at comiket is selling their shit for the prices we charge in the US and nobody's stupid enough to crow about how much they make via KS or otherwise.

>>10471011
>Cintiq Arm
Oh that sound's good, I'll look into tha-
> $700
I'll just sit properly...

>>10471043
Most companies know about fanart, and they know that the people doing it are making pittance from it so they don't care.
"Oh no, someone sold 6 $3 prints, how will we manage, we only made $1,000,000 this quarter from that IP :'c"

The only reason Disney is asshats about it is because they're up their own ass about "Brand Integrity"

>>10471097
NAYRT but you can get something similar for around $90 or less on Amazon. Look up VESA mounts - that's what it basically is but WACOM just marks it up because they slapped their names onto it.

>>10471161
>VESA mounts
Oh shit thanks man.

>>10471043
Why "fucked up"? It's not theft, as 99.9% of fanart sales have no impact on the original IP, and it's not trying a grift, as people who purchase it 99.9% of the time are aware of exactly what it is. Except for some fringe cases, fanart sales don't hurt anybody, and only provide a way for artists to make a little extra income in a market that devalues them and doesn't have enough opportunities outside of running their own sales, as well as provides fans with more options to buy things for their favorite shows and movies. Frequently fanart sales are even filling an existing gap in the market, where the main IP won't produce merch.
Explain how that's fucked up? Other than it goes against your own personal perception of morality and that you judge people on a moral scale based on whether they do original art or not. Or are you just a salty original artist who thinks they deserve those sales because they're not a "unoriginal fanartist"?

>>10471339
>as 99.9% of fanart sales have no impact on the original IP

>>10471339
>Explain how that's fucked up?
money that could be going to the creators is instead going to lazy artists profiting off other people's ideas.

>>10471068
most artists at comiket sell for cost of printing/manufacturing and not for profit

>>10471339

Nayrt

>it's not theft

Fanart sold for profit without consent of the IP owner could be considered art theft. Or at least diversion of profits from that artist. And who is to say when artists are big or popular or making enough money that it is suddenly okay to take their ideas and sell reproductions of them? Anime and manga artists especially aren't actually making all that much a lot of the time and that industry has grueling hours and hard work at times, just because they are popular or in another country they deserve to lose out on money because fans are buying fanart instead of official merch? Sure Disney isn't being hurt by fanart but a lot of people could easily be.

Maybe as an artist who rarely draws fanart I just don't see why people are lazy and don't just draw their own original stuff if they plan to sell. Often the people selling fanart have talent. Most artists I follow do still draw fanart often and may send it as a Patreon freebie but only use original content for merch or profitable products, which seems like a happy medium.

I am failing to see what is so difficult about creating your own stuff and the fanart and just selling the original stuff?

>>10471349
I think that's the point. US artists charge easily 4/5 times more than Japanese artists and for profit. If I were a big firm and I had to chose a group of 5 people making 0 money (or going into debt) to make fanart versus one person making 80% margin on my IP obviously I'd go for the second

>>10471350
>I am failing to see what is so difficult about creating your own stuff and the fanart and just selling the original stuff?
It's harder.

>>10471367
I never see takedowns for anything other than Sanrio, Disney, Pokemon, and Nintendo. I wonder if other anime/game companies don't do anything because it's too much of a hassle, especially if the artist is in the US and the company is Japanese? Even with Pokemon and Nintendo I still rarely see it happen unless the fanartist blows up or tries to do a kickstarter so obviously they can't let it blow over.

>>10471372

It's only harder to sell your own art if it's just super uninteresting or unoriginal. Tons of people make a decent living selling originals using their social media as a good platform for their work/to link to online shops on top of selling at AA when there were events.

>>10471341
>>10471350
>money that could be going to the creators

That money would have never gone to the creators. Fans don't choose to buy fanart and then not buy the official merch, they buy the official merch first and then supplement with fanmerch. If you think someone would choose to buy fan prints and keychains rather than buying the dvds or games, you don't understand fans. This is why it's not actually harmful to the original IP unless the artist is misrepresenting in a way that makes people think it's an official product.

Legally speaking, yes, the original IP can still come shut you down, but morally speaking? I don't know why people give a shit other than they're original artists who are mad that fanartists can earn so much more than them easily.

>>10471378
Are you speaking from experience as a successful original artist? Give us some tips, if it's so easy. Because if you're basing this on observing other artists, you don't know what money they're making and what other factors play into their success.

>>10471367
>US artists charge easily 4/5 times more than Japanese artists and for profit
japanese cons and events are waaaay cheaper to table at than western cons.

>>10471434
>they buy the official merch first and then supplement with fanmerch.
>If you think someone would choose to buy fan prints and keychains rather than buying the dvds or games, you don't understand fans.

have you never been to or sold at an anime convention before? The amount of people making their purchasing decisions based on whether something is official art or not is minuscule. They see a print of their favorite character and buy it, thats it. There is no deep thought process here. If they buy fanart, thats less money they have to spend on official art (if they even have any money left over to buy official). If you think people are buying more **DVDs** than fanart in the year 2020, you are really out of touch.

>>10471436
Why would a fan of a series not own the DVDs of the series already?? Why would a fan of a series not WANT to own official merchandise to support the thing they like?? No one is buying prints over figures just because they can get more prints for the same amount of money. They spend their money on figures first and then spend their last ten bucks on prints when they can't find anymore merch of their waifu, or they spend money on prints because they never could have afforded the figures in the first place. You really don't understand fans at all. You're doing somersaults to justify your position on this but it doesn't make any sense.

>>10471051
that's false, some companies are ok with it while others aren't. nintendo certainly isn't. and of course american companies like disney blatantly are against it

>>10471455
>Why would a fan of a series not own the DVDs of the series already??
because its not 2008, no one watches DVDs. Especially not anime fans who are infamous for pirating most anime they watch.

>Why would a fan of a series not WANT to own official merchandise to support the thing they like?

because they are young teens for the most part who just buy whatever has their favorite character on it.

>They spend their money on figures first and then spend their last ten bucks on prints when they can't find anymore merch of their waifu, or they spend money on prints because they never could have afforded the figures in the first place.

I seen plenty of people at cons get multiple fan art prints with and no figures...
The idea that people take preference to official merch over fan merch in unfounded.

>>10471097
they don't always make a pittance tho. bri-chan comes to mind immediately, her entire income was fanart for a good while, and that's just sad because it showed she has no real talent outside of fanart. her current job is to make coloring books and shit of franchise cartoons, so there's a legit way to make fanart a real job if you really don't have the talent to sell your original art.

>>10471464
>I seen plenty of people at cons get multiple fan art prints with and no figures...
Because cons used to be notorious for having bootlegged figures, and even if they're legit the prices aren't much cheaper than buying it online even with shipping

>>10471464
I don't buy figures or official merch at cons because of the markup, possibility of a bootleg, and space they take in my luggage OR I already have the figure at home. Even blind box omanjuus or keychains that I used to buy at cons are much cheaper to buy online by the entire box, almost ensuring that I will get all the characters which I can either keep for myself or split with friends. Typically I can get all of these items at the same online seller and save on shipping and it comes out much much cheaper than at a convention and way more convenient. When I go to dealers hall at a convention, I am typically window shopping official merch so I know what to look for online. The only time I buy at a convention is if the merch is so old that I can no longer buy it online in good condition.

Meanwhile, there are several artists that sell at conventions that do not sell their art online or that have traveled out of the country to come to the convention I'm shopping at so I'm sure as hell going to purchase from all of them when they're all in one place and if their items are cheaper than what they are online with con-exclusive deals.

There are plenty of fandoms that do not have much official merch at all so fan artists make merchandise to fill that gap because they themselves want those items that the companies are not giving them. Sure as hell I would buy official apparel or official prints if they were sold, but they aren't. You don't see people going after cosplay companies manufacturing unofficial cosplay for Persona 5 and telling them to go and make their own original outfits. Supply and demand.

>>10471485
oh man i got flashbacks from the last time I tried to buy a figure at sakuracon

>$40 figure plus tax
>so it'll be $52
>sales tax isn't 30% wtf
>oh you have a card we have a charge for that, full total is $65

>>10471464
You're still not giving me evidence that the money would somehow get into the creators' pockets if fanart were no longer available to purchase. Because, oh right, you don't actually think the money is being taken from the IP holders, you think it's being taken from the good clean honest artists who do original art only, like yourself, who deserve more than those slimy fanartists. That if there were suddenly no fanart of someone's favorite waifu to buy, that they would then spend that money on something they have no emotional connection to, like your art, rather than just having extra money for food and beer.

Also basing your argument on "what you personally have seen people buy at cons" is a bit lazy.

>>10471485
oh man I got flashbacks from the last time I tried to buy a figure at sakuracon

>$40 figure plus tax
>k
>so it'll be $52
>sales tax isn't 30% wtf
>oh you have a card we have a charge for that, full total is $65

Like why go through that when I can just buy the figure right from amiami and sometimes get exclusives ofc I'm not buying official merch at cons

>>10471615
>You're still not giving me evidence that the money would somehow get into the creators' pockets if fanart were no longer available to purchase.
because instead of buying fanart, they'd use that money to buy official art..

>>10471626
You've like... never talked to people who frequent AAs, huh? Attendees specifically like going to Artist Alleys because they feel like they're supporting individual artists instead of faceless corporations. I've got a decent sized following on social media and I've had countless people tell me that they specifically set aside money for AA merch separate from their official merch fund. And like other anons have mentioned, these people already own official merch+DVDs and pay for VA signings at conventions. You're not stealing anything from the IP holders unless you're literally stealing official art.

>>10471628
>specifically like going to Artist Alleys because they feel like they're supporting individual artists instead of faceless corporations
right, individual artists using someone else's success.

>>10471626
particularly for western ips, official art and/or merchandise is literally nonexistent. sure i get this argument when theres direct competition but fucking blizzard isn't releasing soldierxreaper keychains

>>10471637
>particularly for western ips, official art and/or merchandise is literally nonexistent.

Sure it exists. Dont you like Funko Pops ;)?

>>10471626
Nayrt Anon if no fanart existed for purchase, do you expect me to buy 10 copies of the exact same official standee or plush because there is no other available merch of that character? Because that is not what happens. Do you even buy official merchandise yourself?

Take Aggeretsuko and Sanrio Danshi for example. I love the shows, I'd buy more official merch of it if Sanrio made it available in forms that I don't already have, but they don't. So I don't buy anything else and no more money goes to them. Now if there was fanart for it, usually they'd be making something different that Sanrio doesn't offer and I'd buy it IN ADDITION to what I've already bought.

>>10471467
People might make a good living for themselves, but we're talking 100,000's vs millions. Generally speaking, the pittance are pittance in comparison to big companies.
I don't deny that some people make a LOT tho. Like... what's her name? Sakima chan? Wasn't she making like 45k a month thru patreon on fanart? But she's such an outlier that I doubt any companies would see it as real competition of their potential product. Esp since she was making porn of characters from IP's that would NOT use that as their official product.

>>10471660
I wonder if any of the big companies have gone after Sakimichan? She's obviously making huge $$$$ off of fanart of their properties. If I were Viz, Funi, or Aniplex. I'd go after her and also open up a case to get the profits from the high revenue earning Kickstarters. The information's all out there.

>>10471660

The porn thing is intetesting because what if the creators didn't want their characters drawn in 18+ content? Is it okay to disrespect the creator of the original IP by stealing their ideas AND sexualizing it in a way they may not want for profit?

>>10471744
I actually took a few law classes at uni, and it seems the general consensus seems to be that, even if it goes against the IP brand and creators wishes, it falls under than same sort of "This isn't REALLY hurting us so we'll just try to ignore it."

Unless its something like MLP which, yeah, dont sell porn in front of kids guys come on.

Didn't Blizzard say something about all the SFM porn that was made of Overwatch characters? Not profit but, still interesting to think about.

>>10471628
>they feel like they're supporting individual artists instead of faceless corporations.
yea, thats literally the point i'm making.

>>10471772
why are you bullshitting so hard?

>>10471690
On that note, I don't know if you all have heard of SMG4, a YouTube channel with Garry's mod videos made from ripped 3D models of Nintendo characters. It's a popular channel with almost 4 million subscribers, merch, fan events, etc. I'm surprised Nintendo hasn't gone after them yet considering how touchy they are with their IP.

>>10471626
I literally explained to you why that's untrue and you just keep repeating yourself. Don't reply to people if you're not even reading their posts.

>>10470621
>>10471043
>>10471341
>>10471068
>>10471349
>>10471367
>>10471378
>>10471455
>>10471626
>>10471630


Do you guys work for Remove Your Content, LLC? These arguments are weak. provide no guidance/advice when asked, and reek of secondhand salt to the point where it sounds like either you've never been to a convention (let alone sold in an artist alley), or understand fandom. Why are you even in this thread?

>>10471656
I had a sudden thought that maybe Eric Green is working on behalf of Funko Pops resellers. They're the only ones losing out to AA sellers (or so they believe).

>>10471341
Explain how a piece of media with little to no merch to buy to begin with is hurt from fanart sales.

why is anyone itt arguing? we all know fanart is technically illegal and can get us into legal trouble. but us selling and those buying are just doing it because we're entitled and selfish. anyone arguing otherwise is being disingenuous af.

>>10472081
>but us selling and those buying are just doing it because we're entitled and selfish
Hid that in line three huh. As if people buying aren't buying it EXCLUSIVELY because they like it and want cool stuff from the thing they like. And as if there isn't a variety of types of sellers ranging from people who genuinely like the thing and are disappointed with the availability of official merch (like myself, in my tiny niche fandoms) to people who are just greedy and trying to make an easy buck. It's more complex than how you're framing it, like a moral issue, when you're talking about some small artist shipping keychains out of their house versus a giant billion dollar corpo like disney.

>>10472090
how tf could i hide a line in a small paragraph. you sound really salty.

>>10472090

Nayrt but all the reasons you gave are still dismissing the legality for reasons based in entitlement.

>because they like it and want cool stuff
Entitled assumption that you should get everything you want just because you want it.

>are disappointed with the availability of official merch
The creators of IP don't owe you merch or anything. They made something and you liked it or enjoyed the content. Entitled to think supporting theft is okay because you can't live without a keychain made with stolen IP from your favorite series.

>greedy and trying to make an easy buck
This is anyone intentionally selling anyone else's IP. Arguments have been made that it's soooo hard to sell original work. It's entitled to think it was easy for the original artist(s) or creators to come up with the idea, and to think because you don't want to work hard you're owed exemption from judgement for IP theft.

And as far as your "tiny niche fandom", that makes you look worse because if the fandom is really that small the original IP must not be all that popular to begin with and you're supporting people piggybacking/leeching off of the success of a smaller creator or artist and don't care because you can't live without your merch.

>>10472131
I can tell you've never been in a small fandom, every one puts a lot of love into their works for the community to enjoy. I'd rather have my IP continue to be spread out this way than be forgotten, if anything it gives exposure to potential new fans. You can't possibly think every single artist out there can find success with original work 100% of the time. Fanart has always sold and will continue to sell. Copyright is bullshit anyway, everything is going to become public domain eventually.

>>10472148

If I was the artist I'd rather die and be forgotten as long as my fans give enough of a fuck about me to support me and not art thieves so I can make a living

>>10472148

Nothing you have said addresses or denies the entitlement because that's all it is. Every artist will not be successful right away and some will never be successful. Just like everyone in any career field are not guaranteed success. Trying to get around that by making art from other people's IP just means the artist has given up on themselves if the only art they feel is worth selling is fanart.

In addition, copyright and IP laws vary depending on industry but ate generally not bullshit and protect small creators from big entities stealing and vice versa. Things usually don't become public domain until after the artist is probably dead, or if they haven't used it in a long time which means at that point they were not profiting from it anymore. Comparing it eventually being public domain to actively taking their ideas to make money off of young fans who don't know better or older ones eho do and don't care about the artist is silly. Fandoms are trash if they don't care about the creator who actually made the content they supposedly truly love so much.

>>10472148

>exposure
The artist can't pay their bills, or for supplies, etc. with exposure.

>>10471870
Bullshitting about what?? Going to school?

>>10472081
>>10472148
>entitled and selfish
>copyright is bullshit
Man what is it with people on 4chan not respecting artists?

>>10472081
I mean... you also understand that fanart is how a lot of artists get hired on for freelance gigs right? You literally sound like you don't do art professionally. I have friends who've done contracted work for big name companies like Blizzard, Cartoon Network,etc specifically bc the company really like their art styles after seeing their fanart and scouted them to work on the actual official stuff.

I've even had a friend get scouted at a convention because an exec REALLY liked the fanart print they were selling. I've also personally had companies reach out knowing that I sell fanart of their IP and give me paid freelance gigs. And I'm talking anime, gacha games, video games, comics, podcasts, etc - all of them do this.

Most companies in the industry view people selling fanart as a trade off for getting free advertising. They have to pursue copyright claims online if their shit is trademarked because of US trademark laws, but a lot of them specifically look at artists SELLING fanart of their IP at cons as a talent pool to scout from.

>>10472168
Literally, anon has no idea how art jobs function. Can't get scouted if you don't have art to your name.

Ignoring all the tracing/artbashing, Kaneblob got hired by Trigger to do promo art for BNA because she's a popular artitst/fanartist, and one of the people doing promo for the show saw her art and decided to hire her.

>>10472168

No one is saying don't DRAW fanart. It can be beneficial and many successful original artist draw fanart all the time. It even helps bring traffic to their work. Fanart is fine. People are saying don't SELL exclusively fanart just because "boohoo nobody likes my furry OCs or whatever else I'm drawing on my own, art is so hard, I need to sell someone else's ideas or I'll never be an artist".

And desu the artists I personally follow or have in the past that are the biggest and most successful, draw the best quality fanart, and end up collabing with big companies in meaningful ways usually use the originality and creativity from their own work to inspire or improve their fanart in a unique way that makes it noticable or stand out. You'll never develop a unique style or energy about your work only drawing your favorite character designs from someone else to sell. People get good at photorealism by copying what they see. But you get good at illustration by practicing developing ideas, personalities, backgrounds, and worlds, etc. for your characters.

>>10472168

Highly unlikely a company at a legitimate Japanese animation studio would give you a job seeing you selling their stolen IP. Yeah people get scouted from fanart but drawing it doesn't mean you have to sell it to people just because nobody likes your original stuff.

ngl a lot of the people railing against fanart sales seem to forget that strictly speaking, you can't -make- fanart. like, sale or not technically you're in violation of copyright law.
Unless you're out and tattling on every single piece of fanart posted it really just comes off as 'you're making money in a way I deem improper'

>>10472216

If you are not obviously financially profiting off of it it isn't illegal. Or at least companies aren't going to be hurting from it/trying to shut it down.

I don't think anyone is that mad about law breaking in general or explicitly, but annoyed that fan artists are assblasted that people call out the lack of ethics in their selling practices and how they can be harmful, which intersects with copyright law and legality.

>>10472221

*companies and individual/small creators and IP owners. People draw and sell fanart of smaller artists' work too

Tired of this fucking fanart legality debate.
Genuinely curious, how much do you know the people you table share with at conventions? I've seen some artists talk before and I was surprised to hear people tabling with complete strangers, not even mutuals or mutual friends. I've never tabled with anyone I didn't trust enough to leave my con money with, but I guess some people aren't so fortunate as to have friends that also table at artists alleys.

>>10472286
>Tired of this fucking fanart legality debate.
It's a pretty important topic considering one dude is literally shutting down the one way people are making money without conventions in the forseeable future.

>>10472292
Debating about it here isn't going to change anything. It's not the first time this discussion has ever been had. Plus the devil's advocate in this situation doesn't seem to be properly debating back or considering the arguments being brought up.

>>10472301

Which side are you calling the devil's advocate?

>>10472301
the quality of the debate literally doesn't matter regardless. especially with retards acting like being an artist is some kind of humanitarian endeavor. enjoying making art doesn't mean we don't all want to make money.

>>10472208
Literally, >>10472184
It happens. Just because it doesn't happen to you does not mean it doesn't happen.

>>10472286
It's important. If you're an artist, you should care.

That said, I only table with my partner. Honestly, I don't think I could comfortably table with a stranger. I do not trust people enough to share a space with a stranger and be handling money and products.

>>10472301
I mean, at the end of the day, companies don't particularly care. And, when they do, word of mouth spreads like wildfire, like there is with Disney and BBC and their strict attitudes.

>>10472313
Doesn't mean you need to be a prick and an idiot towards the artists that DO want to make money, esp if they're making money within the limitations companies set for them by not litigating their IP rights.

>>10472333
i didn't say that, but we need to stop pretending it's something it's not.

>>10472332

I never said it doesn't happen. Just that it is unlikely for people actively exploiting the company's IP by selling fanart. Although there is no proof so why wold you expect me to believe a rando on 4chan who is too lazy to even draw original art that their own fanart is just SOOO GOOD that the creators would hire them?

>>10472208
>Highly unlikely a company at a legitimate Japanese animation studio would give you a job seeing you selling their stolen IP
...a high amount of professionals in manga and anime also create and sell doujin.

Granted, the price points of fan merchandise in Japan are usually much lower as the artists are generally not interested in profiting and are in it as a more fannish endeavour versus a side gig, so the higher-priced, more-profit-motivated fan content sold in the west might be viewed more negatively, but as-is actual anime studios in Japan don't really care about that stuff

Western license holders (including of Japanese IPs) give way more of a shit

>>10472292
NAYRT, but making a living as an artist is not something everyone who bothers to draw is simply entitled to, and definitely not when all your profits come from someone else's IP. That's my main problem whenever this topic pops up, the fact that so many fanartist act like they're somehow entitled to making money off of art to the point where they should be allowed to use other artists successful work and ideas as a foundation, simply because selling original art is "harder".

I think there's a big difference with selling fanart as a hobby to cover manufacturing costs, and being a full time artist charging a premium price and raking in serious cash both from cons and online stores. The latter is questionable at best, especially since the defence in favor of fanart always seems to be "starving artists should be allowed to the money that otherwise goes to multimillion dollar companies".

Sell fanart all you want, I know it's not going to stop since being greedy is in human nature. But don't try and pretend that you're completely justified simply because you're not directly taking the money off of the original creators hands.

>>10472371
>especially since the defence in favor of fanart always seems to be "starving artists should be allowed to the money that otherwise goes to multimillion dollar companies".
How's that inconsistent with the 'raking in cash' though, since raking in cash at a highly successful 30k/year will still put you into starving artist range if that's your only income? It seems like you think even "starving artists" (meaning, reliant on con income) should only be charging enough for manufacturing costs

>>10472374
Because making a living off of art just because you like to draw isn't always possible, and that's quite evident with the amount of people who are only able to make a profit because they're selling fanart. Everyone also seems to conveniently forget that the people whose work they're profiting off of are themselves hardly making the ends meet because of those big companies taking the biggest slice of the pie.
So when an individual person gets to keep all their profits directly from patreon/online stores/cons, and then throws a tantrum about their fanart being taken down because "big evil companies are bullying poor artists" it's hypocritical at best. The companies that are "bullying" you, are protecting the rights of the person whose work you apparently like enough to make fanart of.

If you're serious about being a full time artists I think it's scummy to make all your profit off of other artists work. Sure fanart is derivative and requires skill to create, but the fact doesn't change that people are paying for it because of the character and series, not because it was drawn by you specifically. If it was because of the latter, you'd have no problem making money off of original art.

>>10472374

Nayrt but they never implied that? They're just saying it's entitled to think you are owed success as an artist, so the argument that fanart guarantees or improves chances st success is irrelevant.

>>10472367

Most if not all of those who create doujin do so at prices that are not a profit AND a decent amount of artists create doujin of their OWN IP and not someone else's.

>>10472377

Agreed. The only reason this is an argument is because people want to be able to make money and get by just having fun casually drawing other people's stuff and letting the people who came up with whatever content people loved in the first place do all the hard work for them.

They need to admit they're lazy and stop pretending they are virtuous or doing some greater good for the fandom for their actions.

>>10472383
Yes, I emphasized that the Japanese fanworks market is not focused on making money. (I sometimes wish the Western market was like that even though I'm not against the selling of fanwork. It seems like a best of both worlds approach to some extent.) I'm just saying that claiming anime studios hate fanwork selling and will refuse to hire people who do it is disingenuous.

>>10472286
I tabled with a friend and a few strangers before. However, those strangers were kinda sorta friends (at least con friends) with another friend....so maybe a bit different from complete randos? My experiences have all been very good. It's probably better to at the very least table with people who have been in the con scene a little bit, or that maybe you've seen around AANI, or something.

HOWEVER. You leave your con money with people??? I have it on me at ALL times. If I'm leaving the table, I just tell my partner to tell people to come back, especially because they probably would not be able to navigate my stock anyway.

>>10472371
While I agree with you on all those points, this conversation started because of one company hired by these companies to do these takedowns that is doing an incredibly sloppy job with these take downs. Mind you he has taken down ORIGINAL works as well do to DMCA over reach and a shitty bot and has gone after portfolio pages and instagrams with fan art in them.

Y’all dumbfucks acting like people who draw original art are superior and objectively better at art need to remember that there are original artists who do nothing but churn out crappy art too. Youtube artists are especially notorious for doing this with people like Baylee Jae and DrawingWiffWaffles shitting out a very large number of original pieces but none of their art is good.

>>10472459

Nobody said their art looked better or can't also be crappy. Literally every post about it in detail has acknowledged NO ARTIST is entitled to income or success from their art by virtue of deciding to pick up a pencil. Least of all the ones churning out trash whether it's ugly fanart or ugly OCs.

Large numbers of artists with trash art that still have fans kinda negates arguments of the fanartists whining over it being *so hard* to make original art successfully though.

>>10472459

This has never been an argument about one being superior generally speaking. No one has issues with people just drawing fanart. Their issue is with the illegal or ethically questionable sale of that for profit rather than their own work. Not a single soul said original artists are inherently better artists or anything of the sort.

>>10472462
There is literally an anon saying that fanartists are greedy fucks who don’t care about original creators.

>>10472486
bitch, where?

>>10472486

Calling fanartists greedy still doesn't equate to saying their art is objectively worse though, which no one said. That is about the ethics of their selling practice, not the aesthetic of their artwork. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can tell the difference

>>10472377
This is exactly my feelings on the topic. I still draw fanart, but I'm not as comfortable selling it after seeing the state of so many artists who work in the industry somehow making less than fanartists make profiting off their series (especially true for manga).

>>10472062
>These arguments are weak.
i literally just stated it's illegal, which is fact. not even an argument lol. i think at least in the case of companies who have publicly stated that they're anti selling fanart, like disney and nintendo, people should respect their wishes. otherwise can you really call yourself a fan?

Are there any of you that made the switch from fan art selling to original works with relative success? I have some original works that did pretty well at conventions but not nearly as well as my fan art.

>>10472548
With original work, the things I've seen that have the most success are:
> aesthetic
> fanservice
> lore
It's not too difficult to achieve either of the first two. The third one is the hardest to get down since people generally don't care about your OCs until you have a legitimate cool story about them. If you have a fanfic friend or two (or legitimate writer if you're lucky) they can be really helpful for developing an interesting story that people would be willing to pay for

>>10472548
i've been gradually doing this over a couple years and my stock is now 90% original 10% fanart (and even that fanart tends to be niche older series, not fotm). I've never had a dip in profits and have been steadily climbing as my skill, audience and inventory grows.

fwiw in switching from fanart to original I also switched from being primarily prints to being primarily merchandise. my stuff sits in the vaguely alternative tumblr/pinterist esque aesthetic zone though, so i'm not trying to push my ocs or comic pitch or whatever

>>10472663
gonna add on another point to this, in line with >>10472562 that another way to succeed with original stuff is by catering to a subgroup of degenerates (i say this affectionately) i.e robotfuckers

>>10472664
>catering to a subgroup of degenerates
Can confirm. Lovely, loyal customers who'll pay top dollar if you happen to hit their niche.

Need to vent a bit but I'm getting really tired of popular artists (like insanely popular) telling other artists not to worry about likes, retweets, followers on social media and just be yourself and post art man. This is in response to someone looking to them for advice on how to gain a following on social media. These artists never have to deal with fighting twitter's and instagram's algorithm when they hit the ground running with these sites because of a previous fanbase they carried over. Twitter promotes them because anything they post gets huge engagement and twitter's algorithm picks up on that. They get constant work because their stuff gets seen first while any new artist cant break through as easily as DA days when things were less controlled by an invisible numbers game. Anytime a stream or podcast has a social media discussion about "building a fanbase" they bring these kinds of artists on to waste people's times.
>inb4 you sound salty af
I AM SALTY AF

>>10472916
I completely understand where you're coming from, but I can also see their perspective. The artists you're talking about, as you say, brought followings with them from other sites, so telling others not to worry is probably just reflective of their experience. They don't have any useful advice to give. Being salty about algorithms that are difficult to overcome really is just a waste of energy.

>>10472208
I mean you don't have to believe me because it's 4chan and I'm not gonna name the companies that I've worked for. But surprise, it's not black and white and a lot of artists who do fanart also have popular original merch.

I do both fanart and original art and have gotten job offers at conventions from companies to work on their IP after they've seen the fanmerch I was CLEARLY selling. So I'll sit here with my money and industry connections and you can have your moral high ground about how much you're better than artists who sell fanart. Enjoy your moral purity!

>>10472562
To add on to this, it's easier to build a line of successful original merch if you can elicit a strong emotional response from the audience. The reason why a lot of people buy fanart is because they're already familiar with the original material and emotionally invested in it. So if you pick something people are already enthusiastic about and build on that, you'll have an easier time getting people to buy your original work. A big example of this is just... cute animals. They're inoffensive, people like cute things, and are already used to animal mascots like Sanrio or Morning Glory. Or like >>10472664 said things that cater to a specific group of people like robotfuckers, furries, wiccans, etc. Like no one might care about a print of your generic pink-haired OC but if you made it into a generic pink-haired magical girl OC and appealed to the witchy crowd near Halloween, it would sell.

>>10472208
the guy who sold prints of realistic pokemon got hired to design the realistic pokemon for the detective pikachu movie based on it

As someone who's biggest audience tends to be shippers, I don't think my customers are going to be spending money on official merchandise if I didn't have fanart available..... so there's a different audience altogether there to consider.

Anyways, it's a legal grey area and most companies don't care. It sucks when you get hit with a C&D but just take the L and move on.

I know there’s a variety of reasons people are against selling fanart but in my head I always picture some shitty webcomic artist who is being preemptively mad about people selling fanart of their comic if it ever gets more than a couple of hits a month

>>10473081
I always picture someone who is mad everyone around them is making bank on naruto art and no one will buy their shitty comic.

>>10472970
it was shit tho.

>>10473124

You don't have to be angry or think you're superior to acknowledge a moral gray area and choose not to participate in it if you disagree/are uncomfortable with the legality and possible negative consequences of it.

>>10473141
Irrelevant they still got hired?
Imo the designs looked fine. It's not like the pokemon looked like Sonic's first design.

>>10472937
NAYRT but I kind of disagree with that logic.
If you're thoughtful enough to understand that you already have a decent following, then you should be thoughtful enough to understand that people starting out won't have that following.
I get that not everyone is that forward thinking or that conscious of their words, but if you aren't then I'm not sure I'd want advice from you.
Hypothetically, of course. I only take advice from my wife.

>>10473051
Shipping is an eSPECIALLY GRey area.
I remember my professor kind of laughing to herself about it when she had to explain the legality of Twilight and 50 Shades, because she understood it's a little bit absurd and amusing to someone who doesn't really ship or isnt involved in the fanwork creation process. Not derisive laughter, just kind of, amused at the way companies and the people profiting of their IP kind of exist knowing the other is there and almost pretending they aren't.
Was very interesting to discuss.

>>10473051
Or someone who CAN'T support themselves with their own fanart so they get bitter about people who do.

>>10472916
What do you expect them to say though? It's not like they have any useful advice about how to game social media algorithms. There are also definitely a lot of teenagers who need to chill about likes and retweets, and if you have no useful advice then it's better to come up with empty reassurements than to double down on the importance of popularity without explaining how to get there.

>>10473081
Honestly the shitty webcomic artist is the part that I'm personally worried about. I like fanmerch Nintendo stuff for example more than their official merch but if I'm seeing fanart of a small artist's first webcomic or OCs that's something I don't really want to support. Especially with so much art theft cases in the past how do I know this artist hasn't copied or traced from another small artist? Most of us are nobodies, that lost sale for a small team has a major impact

>>10472916
As someone who recently got a decent following after years and YEARS of absolutely nothing, it is kind of true, though. You just have to keep posting, and don't waste your time (I say this only because I've wasted a lot of time on it before) moping about the lackluster feedback. Obviously I'm not an insanely popular artist, but people DO start from the ground up and get popular, sometimes just from luck, or a combination of luck + skill + handling of social media. I mean, what are you gonna do? You can't MAKE people like/rt/follow. It's also unreasonable to think all or any of your pieces is gonna pop off like like a popular artist's. I've seen people gain 20k followers in like 3 months, and others struggle to get 100 in half a year. Also, I feel like nowadays people see others' big numbers and expect to get there easily. It's not easy.

>>10472916
I agree with >>10473708, you really just have to keep at it. Without knowing the ins and outs of these everchanging algorithms, they’re clearly promoting people that post often and get a lot of buzz, and the first part is something you control yourself. Keep drawing, keep improving your art, post it often and throw yourself on art trends, fandoms and memes people are following at the moment. Blowing up is part luck, but what social media favors are people who consistently post stuff people are into.

>>10473745
Am the ayrt--Also want to add that if you continue to keep on drawing, you will not only have more content to help you with the algorithms, but you will also get better. It's hard not getting any recognition when you pour yourself into a piece, but when you see yourself improving it starts to feel more worth it. And, when you are more skilled, people will start to notice. Interact with artists, and maybe they'll engage with you too, maybe reblog or retweet you, and maybe some bigshot will retweet and get your name out there (but for the love of god don't befriend people purely for clout because they can sense it, and your friendship will never deepen).

I hope I don't sound patronizing and maybe you've heard this all before, but I'm saying it really because I have been in the same place, and have gotten supremely salty about it before (maybe still am) but it really is not productive. It's not that followers/likes/etc DON'T matter, but it really is not something you can really control, so you might as well focus on what you CAN control, and that is working at your own craft.

>>10473745
>>10473874
Oops sorry I know you're not the op but just wanted to add a point to both of our posts.

>>10473874
>maybe you've heard this all before
Everything but: [don't befriend people purely for clout], but its a great point. Trophy friendship is unproductive and really awkward.

>>10473708
>>10473745
>>10473874
>>10473888
Man I came here just to vent and ended up getting 10/10 advice and a new perspective. Thanks you guys. You're the best!

Has anyone here ever worked on an international anthology? There’s one I’m interested in hosting Japanese and English speaking artists but I’ve never applied for one before. I don’t speak Japanese for one thing, is that going to majorly affect me?

>>10473979
I dont have any experience with that specifically but if its being hosted in both JP/EN i dont see why not?

As for the language barrier google translate is fairly decent at JP-EN so you should be able to get by.

>>10473979
Is it more an "proper" anthology with a publisher, or more small scale like a zine? Either way, if they accept both Japanese and English speaking artists then I don't think it's going to be a problem.

>>10473913
No problem. You're already on the right track for being willing to be open-minded about it. Wishing you the best (and lots of luck)!

>>10474001
>>10473980
I think more small scale? The host I think is JP but they repost everything (so one post in japanese and one in english). I'll take the chance and apply, thank you guys!

>>10472495
NTAYRT, but, since you're too lazy to use "find in page:"
>>10471051
>>10472131
>>10472371
You're welcome!

>>10474446
I mean, you can't exactly claim otherwise when you've got people like this on your side of the argument:
>>10472967
>So I'll sit here with my money and industry connections and you can have your moral high ground
Quite literally proving the point that they prioritize money and fame over respect towards other artists and their IP, which is arguably quite a greedy point of view.

>>10474724
Y’all keep talking about the respect towards the original artist/creator, but I’m many cases there isn’t just a single artist behind the IP getting robbed like how y’all are playing it out to be. Moana, Last Of Us, Pokémon, My Little Pony, etc. These are owned by large companies and small fan art bucks, even accounting for outliers like Sakimichan, are a drop in the bucket. You can’t paint with a broad brush for things like this. If you want to talk about how people in the animation industry or mangaka’s don’t earn high salaries, that’s not an issue caused by the selling of fanart, it has to do with the companies paying them be it WEBTOON, Shounen Jump, Disney, etc not giving them high enough salaries and not valuing their employees and creators enough.

I would also like to say that indie games and comics/Webtoons are usually respected and handled differently than popular comics and franchises when it comes to selling fanart of them. Even RWBY owned by Rooster Teeth is respected in that people do not sell fanart of it because it’s explicitly not allowed by the company. For the most part, fanartists respect that because the creators are not a massive corporation.

>>10474773
respecting creators isn't about considering how much they lose or gain. it's not your place to decide what's worth something to someone else. plus, if you argue that fanart helps make the IP popular, then point out the companies that own the IP are shitty to the creator and other employees, what sense does that make?

>>10474774
>plus, if you argue that fanart helps make the IP popular, then point out the companies that own the IP are shitty to the creator and other employees, what sense does that make?
NAYRT but have you considered the fact that sometimes people creating fanworks of something enjoys the IP they're creating works of? Even if you think Disney or Nintendo and the likes is some huge soulless megacorp, you might genuinely like their franchises and characters.

The majority of fanartists aren't making a big buck out of fanart, many just earn some extra bucks on the side making prints and merch of characters they like. You can screech about this being morally wrong or whatever, but most people aren't doing this purely out of a money making scheme, it's because they like the IP. When people talk about respecting indie creators it is because selling fanwork affects smaller IPs compared to big corporations. They aren't treated the same because the money indie creators make aren't the same as big corporations.

>>10474785
>many just earn some extra bucks on the side making prints and merch of characters they like
> aren't doing this purely out of a money making scheme, it's because they like the IP
> it's because they like the IP

Liking an IP doesn't mean you have to sell your fanart. You can just draw the art and then not sell it

>>10474724
>"prioritize money and fame over respect towards other artists and their IP".

Anon, I'm literally telling you that the owners of said IP have hired me and other artists to work on their IP in professional capacity based on the fanart they saw us selling. In fact, if you go to a comic con - most of the industry artists there have worked on comcs and cartoons and still sell fanart. Heck, even anime VAs (who aren't the IP holders, I know - but they're still a part of the industry) commission fanartists to work on prints and merch of characters they've voiced so they can give them out at signings. You can talk about "disrespect" all you want but I've literally signed freelance contracts with some of the companies that are responsible for the fandoms I'm in so I don't think the IP holders felt super disrespected.

If we're talking about a small webtoon/webcomic or an indie game I could understand your concern. But this is literally the norm for mainstream IPs at cons to the point where companies like Funimation have released statements saying that they wouldn't pursue copyright charges at cons unless they specifically used logos or names. Blizzard has literally hired fanartists to do splash art and promo art for Overwatch when you could clearly see links to their stores on their social media bios. People who drew and sold MLP merch have gotten hired on the MLP comics. Missy Pena - that one artist who did that ukiyo-e Gyarados print and goes to a ton of cons - is also an industry artist that works on comics. As mentioned by other anons Kaneblob (>>10472184) was hired to do official promo art for BNA and has a shop filled with fanart. And RJ Palmer (>>10472970) was hired to work on Detective PIkachu when he was known for selling Pokemon prints. You can find many more examples of artists who both have actual professional connections to IP holders making and selling fanart - and in fact a lot of them get hired for the companies that own the IP.

>>10474867
maybe where the line should be drawn is when the IP gets so large that there are official artists working on the IP who are not the original artist/team that came up with it.

>>10474866
Can you shut the fuck up already? Everyone has already given you repeated reasons for why they sell or buy fanart, and it's obvious that it will never be acceptable to you personally for ambiguous moral reasons. Just accept that people have different morals and you're not "right" just because you don't steal from mickey mouse. You're the type of person who would tell people to "just do something else for a job" and ignore how absolutely fucked the job market is and how taken advantage of every employee is in this shitty capitalist system. If an artist is asking for a few bucks for their anime prints because they don't wanna have accept a contract position with no health insurance and no protections against getting arbitrarily fired then I am happy to give that to them.

>>10474876
Damn, I have some bad news for you. If you follow your own rules, you shouldn't consume any mainstream video games (worked on by a huge team, who are often rotated out esp it's a franchise with multiple games), or anime (worked on by a team that's not the original mangaka), or cartoons (rotating storyboard artists/writers + actual animation done overseas), or cape comics (rotating list of writers and artists, creators of certain legacy characters are dead).

Do you also stop watching TV shows when they change writers or bring in new actors?

Not only are you moving goalposts here but what you've said is absolutely idiotic.

>>10474867
To add on to your paragraph about fanartists who gained professional connections: I feel like salty anon will interpret that as "clout" when what you are actually describing is fanart as an avenue to professional legitimate work. This anon seems to think that gaining contacts and reputation is only useful for boosting your ego, and not for getting actual work.

apparently a large group of people have no idea how to open a letter or envelope...
gotten several complaints from people that they damaged their product because they cut open the packaging, cutting the product inside.
Its some how my fault they cut into the envelope, instead of slicing it like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2EWkrBuVt0

>>10474921
Yeah, I'm just confused because the other anon seems to be completely misunderstanding my point. Fanart is actually the quickest way to get scouted by an IP holder - I'm not talking about internet clout, I'm talking about legitimate industry opportunities. And I know that the other anon might be like "just draw it, don't sell it!" but I know people who have literally gotten scouted by IP holders at conventions while selling fanart. If IP holders really cared, they could shut down Artist Alleys all across the board. They don't because it's a valuable resource for them to find up and coming artists and a really easy way for them to vet who can draw in the styles they're looking for. They have art directors/people with hiring power walking around show floors and they could hand you a C&D any time they wanted.

Salty anon just sounds like a small time artist who isn't thinking about breaking into the art industry.

>>10474867
>>10474921
>>10474946
Which begs the question, if IP holders before were seeing the benefits of fan art before what changed their mind now that they hired a firm to be this aggressive with takedowns? Was it Covid? New possible merchandising deals?

>>10474962
Online sales have always been way more heavily enforced than at-con sales. I think the logic is that conventions only happen for a set amount of days vs online sales 1) being open all the time and 2) leaving a paper trail that's easy for lawyers to pursue.

Funimation's rule regarding fanart sales is that you do not use their name or trademarked titles/character names. If you remember, several years ago they actually sent out agents at conventions to enforce this rule at cons so I remember artists had to take down post-it notes on their prints and replace them with generic names like "Attacking Giants" instead of "Attack on Titan". But most people use IP and character names on their online stores whereas that sort of stuff doesn't have to be labeled publicly at cons.

I think COVID had some influence on the recent takedowns but not a huge one. IP holders don't have cons either so they can't shill official merch in large quantities like they could at cons. But at the very least it seems like Eric Green is only repping Aniplex and VIZ so it's not all the anime companies. And afaik - other fandom industries like video games, cartoons, and comics haven't been hit with a sudden wave of takedowns!

>>10474962
>>10474972
And to add onto this, artist alley at conventions - at least the western comic ones - were specifically made to showcase artists working in the industry or working to break into the industry. So a lot of IP holders at these events treat it kind of like... as a job fair almost? In that if that see someone talented with an enthusiasm for their IP (aka fanart for sale), they'll reach out with job opportunities. It's literally why the big name comic conventions in the US ask you for your professional credits or published work & actively hold portfolio reviews at con. If you're an original artist, you're supposed to use AAs to promo your new comic & network with publishers. If you're have fanart in your portfolio, you're supposed to use AAs to appeal to art directors & network with people at the company you want to work for. If you're already an industry artist, you're supposed to showcase what you can do so you can get your next gig.

So what might fly at a convention might not necessarily fly online because the context of selling fanart online is inherently different from the context of selling fanart at conventions - at least by industry standards.

>>10474972
>>10474979
That makes a lot of sense.

>>10474962

My theory is it's some newbie idiot who doesn't know how fanbases work, either Eric himself or the exec who hired him.

I used to work in a nerdy industry with people at the bottom who understood and worked directly with the fanbase, and people at the top who had no idea who the people consuming their product even were, and didn't even really understand what was marketable about the product. And yet, those people at the top claimed to know better than the people at the bottom, every single time. This feels like it could be that sort of thing.

>>10475059
Maybe the backlash from this will make them think twice about what they are doing, especially since they hired such a twat to handle these take downs and has sent false DMCAs.

>>10475076
It was pretty hilarious reading artists post on AANI today about how the whole Eric Green and the excessive takedowns are making them hate Viz / Aniplex and making them not want to support or buy anything from them. Maybe the bad PR could influence some change in how terrible Eric Green has been coming after artists. I get the takedowns of kissanime and manga hosting sites. They’re pirating the actual content they’ve licensed. And that could hurt actual sales if a person watches the anime on those kissanime sites instead of their licenses streaming platform.

On the flipside I can see artists choosing not to create as much fanart anymore since they won’t get any compensation for their time and energy creating the content from sales of the artworks. So less free content for the IP to do content marketing and staying at the top of their audiences minds.

This may be anecdotal. But fandoms I’ve seen that told artists they could not sell fanart died out pretty quickly after.

>>10475218
Haven't read the whole thread but just wanted to make a point--I fully agree that fanart/content is what keeps fandom alive. Even if profit isn't allowed, as long as there's fancontent, interest can stay very strong (see MXTX). However, banning fanart altogether? Yeah...bad move.

>>10472548
Yes, but the market is entirely different and I probably wouldn't bring some of my merch to a convention unless they fit the theme. That being said, my non-IP work is based on my own designs of public domain figures from folklore and religion. Isn't that technically fanart? The interpretation is my own, but they aren't my OCs.

I see the fanart argument come up a lot, but I never see people who bash others for making merch based on a series suggest tackling public domain if they want to take advantage of an easy market without legal repercussions.

>>10475218
>This may be anecdotal. But fandoms I’ve seen that told artists they could not sell fanart died out pretty quickly after.
It's why Disney suffered such backlash from the daycare mural incidents. While they weren't selling fanart, it was still Disney IP on a commercial establishment whose profit could never put a dent into hurting Disney. Of course it didn't kill Disney, but it did threaten their family-friendly image since they'd shot themselves in the foot.

>>10475383
That Winnie the Pooh gravestone snafu is still my favorite in their folio of rabid lawyer incidents.

The argument about fanart only exists when there's still money on the table for the IP holders to grab at, and they still exercise their stake in it through marketing spend and such. Which is why I don't think public domain figures wouldn't be considered fanart - there's no money to fight over.

But you're right, that's a really good suggestion. Pretty sure it's never come up because most people seem more invested in the "I told you so"s rather than offering up decent solutions.

>>10475385
*would, not wouldn't

>>10475385
There are also public domain figures/stories like Sherlock Holmes (to an extent, see Enola Holmes lawsuit and https://free-sherlock.com/)) or Pride and Prejudice since they've entered the public domain.

>>10475218
>On the flipside I can see artists choosing not to create as much fanart anymore since they won’t get any compensation for their time and energy creating the content from sales of the artworks

This is a horrible take, plenty of people do fanart and write fanfic for free, if the only reason they are creating is for the money, they are not fans, they're doing it as a job.

>>10475565
Tbh part of the reason I make fanart to sell is so that I can buy other artists' fanart or make things for franchises that I wouldn't be able to afford to make alone or own 50/100 copies of.

>>10475586
That being said, I'd still make it if it was an MXTX situation where it's all p4p/trade, probably much less since though since I wouldn't be able to risk as much financially if I don't trade/sell all of my stock.

>>10475565
A person could have both motivations though. You can be both a fan and want to feel like what you’re doing is worthwhile, although it may be on a different spectrum than what you are self-motivated by. For example, If I were to choose between drawing fanart of IP A and IP B. If IP A has rabid ppl like Eric Green hunting fanartists like me down. I’d rather use my limited energy and time drawing fanart for IP B. Sure I may be a fan of both IPs. But if I’m going to be hunted down or cannot recoup my costs of making 50 units of a merch like MXTX fan anon mentioned for IP A. At a point, it’s not worth putting up your time, effort (and funds if you make fan merch) into making fanart for IP A.

Also Eric Green has been coming after artist’s fan artworks, not just store merch listings. So there’s that as well.

>>10475656
>Eric Green has been coming after artist’s fan artworks, not just store merch listings

What, like trying to get posts removed from twitter and instagram????

>>10476142
nayrt He tried to get someone's portfolio website taken down as well. I believe the person on Facebook posted about it

>>10476148
That's ridiculous, I don't think there's a legal issue with displaying your artwork of another IP in a portfolio?
If people like VIZ actually want their IP's protected, they realllyyy should find a reputable liason, not someone who allegedly does this work to fund a porn site.

>>10472916
> They get constant work because their stuff gets seen first

You’re retarded, #’s do not equal money. I have 80k followers and I have to constantly hustle for contract work. You don’t suddenly get opportunities because oogahboogah big number

>>10475656
Not to mention DMCA stuff that is not infringing on the IP in the claim or fair use claims. The guy is sloppy and if someone really wanted to pursue him in court for damages they'd have a case for false DMCA

I've been thinking of getting a Cricut machine instead of buying all my die cut stickers online.

Can any gull with experience let me know if it worked out for them?

>>10476746
I have a Silhouette, and I adore it. I've seen people say that Cricut can often fall out of alignment re: stickers.

But eventually, if you sell a LOT, you're gonna be weighing up the actual effort of doing all the cutting yourself vs paying to have someone else do it when you buy online.
Sometimes it seems outsourcing die cuts and then producing things like sheets yourself is cost effective.

>>10476749
That's wonderful information, thank you!

>>10476746
Yea agree with >>10476749 I also have a Silhouette and love it. There is occasionally some troubleshooting that you'll have to do (with either) but in my opinion, Silhouette is better but noisier though.
Like what other anon brought up, you'll definitely be weighing the ease of ordering stickers which are much less time consuming and you don't have to worry about printer malfunctions or running out of ink or paper. Same time the quality of sticker manus can also be higher than what you can make at home.

If you want to make sticker sheets though I think having a cutter is probably cheaper and more customizable. The nicest thing is being able to make as many or as little as you want and get them right away.

I'd compare it to buying a button press and pressing all the buttons yourself (minus the ability to take it with you to conventions). You can try printing stickers at home first (hand cut them) and see if you like the quality before committing to buying a machine that will do the cuts for you. If you like the quality and don't mind the time it takes then you can look more into getting a cutter.

>>10476753
Ngl I kinda love the noise of my Silhouette. It makes me feel like I'm actually working and not just sitting at my computer waiting for something to cut until I can put the next sheet in.

>>10476764
Tbh me too haha Everyone I always talks to thinks of it as a downside, but I like that I can hear when it's done or not and I typically play tv/music in the background anyways so I don't mind it.

What would you guys sell a 3-4 inch hard enamel pin at?

>>10476907
$18 or 2/$30.

>>10476954
For a 3” to a 4” inch hard enamel pin?

>>10476978
nayrt but presumably, since that was the question you asked

>>10476978
You know most enamel pins are between 1 or 2 inches right? 3 to 4 inches is really big.

>>10477002
nyart but aren't a lot of enamel pins are are 1-2 inches around $10-14? The price other anon quoted did seem a little low, but you seem to have an idea of how much to price already based off your reaction so what price range were you expecting to hear?

>>10477067
I’m the one who asked the original question anon, there’s more than two people in this thread

>>10477072
Sorry haha it's hard to tell when everyone is an anon

When posting art on social media, what do you usually write with it?
I'm absolutely awful at coming up with any sort of title, and I don't usually have anything interesting to tell about the work itself either. Would it be weird to (at least occasionally) just post the art without any title/description? I feel really silly trying to come up with something to say every time, but I don't know how others see it. Does it even matter to people?

>>10477100
Hey anon, I felt exactly the same way. I would often just write off something really short or just use emoticons.
I've definitely noticed better engagement however if I actually take the time to make a better description, though it depends on the platform too. On insta I will try my best to write about the product or art, and try to tack on some sort of question to encourage a discussion and comments. I know this feels very annoying and bait-y, but Ive definitely seen positives from using this method. I think it also encourages people who may want to interact with you to take the time to do so when the effort required on their part is minimal.

>>10476978
>>10477067
It could also vary on where you live. The cons I go to, seeing 2 inch pins for $10-12 is common. $18 for a bigger pin seemed reasonable to me. If pricing is a bit higher for smaller pins in your area, feel free to tack on another few bucks. If it's truly pushing the 4x4 measurements, then again, maybe add on a couple more dollars.

>>10477067
I'm the anon you replied to, and 18 seemed fine to me. I automatically assumed anon was going to say the price sounded too high, since asking for help and then disregarding any answers completely seems to be a trend in these threads. It didn't occur to me that it would be too low. Anything over 20 is a big ask for a pin, based on size only, although if it had some special features you could probably get away with it. That's my opinion anyway.

>>10477253
In my experience, the mold fee gets exponentially higher for enamel pins over two inches for many factories, so I understand why $18 might seem low to some makers, but you're right most customers would be unwilling to pay over $20 since they don't understand why an extra half inch would be +$5 more when many 0.5-2" pins are in the same price range.

Special effects like spinning, sliding, and hinged pins require two separate molds, so whatever size it is I usually expect them to be $16 and up.

>>10477253
> although if it had some special features you could probably get away with it
Seconding this for the anon. I've seen spinning pins go for up to $25, but larger alone usually isn't what is going to get people to open their wallets

>>10477253
I was partially going off of that enamel pins are usually more expensive than charms of equal size. I was assuming that if the pin was a large size that it would be more detailed or intricate, more colors, more distinct areas, etc which would warrant a higher price. But yes if it's just a very simple design that is needlessly larger just to be larger then it probably isn't worth over $20.

>>10477100
Instead of seeing captions as something you use to talk about that specific piece, you should use them to sell yourself/your personality.
If I really can’t think of what to write in the caption, I usually put something I like about the character or series. Even something as mundane as “I like how this character has a strong will, which is something that I relate to.” or “I’ve loved this series ever since I was a teenager.” is better than nothing.

>>10470586
I am about to order my keychains and posters for the first time. I have at least 20 different character keychains and I have 10 different posters
Is 25 of each way too little or is it a good spot to start?

>>10479092
Are you an established artist with a big following? 25 is a little high for a beginner.

>>10479107
I do not have a big following yet. So the amount to start should be more like 10 of each?

>>10479110
NAYRT, but yeah 10 might be a much better range for you. If you did 25 each of 20 different keychains and 10 posters, you'd have 500 keychains and 250 posters to move. If it's your first time starting out, better to sell out and have to reorder instead of being stuck with a ton of merch no one wants to buy.

I can move like 50-75 posters at a con easy, but I still have posters I made for my very first con that I've sold exactly 0 copies of. I was lucky that I only printed 5 of them, because if I had printed 25, it would be a much bigger loss. Posters are notoriously harder to move online than they are in person. And since all cons are pretty much suspended indefinitely, I would definitely advise against printing 25 if you don't know your audience and selling patterns yet.

Can you try doing an interest check or consider taking preorders so you know exactly how many to order?

if one were to desire a very small amount of custom full-color cotton (not polyester spandex) face masks, would their only option be to order fabric from spoonflower and sew them from scratch?

>>10479145
Probably, though I'll mention imo contrado has way better quality fabric than spoonflower

>>10479145
Not sure if Redbubble's are polyspandex, but they do masks too that you could order for yourself from yourself. Maybe a few other print on demand places might have them too

>>10479140
>If it's your first time starting out, better to sell out and have to reorder instead of being stuck with a ton of merch no one wants to buy.
Okay sounds good. With how much shipping costs from Vograce I thought maybe buying a high amount was a better idea. I guess since cons won't be a thing for a while I gotta start out small! I can't imagine marketing the etsy store will be too easy at first.
Honestly the posters are not what I enjoy making anyways so these are ones I plan just having around in my booth for a long time, partially because I personally think booths without posters are less eye catching so I was okay with just having extra around. The initial 8 are a set that are anime girls dressed in outfits inspired by something that seems like it never dies down in popularity so they are not seasonal and should be able to stick around for a bit.
I will start with 10 of everything for selling online
Once cons come back maybe that is when I double up?
Thanks for your insight anon!

Here is a neat trick for avoiding takedown bots. Use greek symbols in place of certain letters. The symbol for omega (ο) look just like the letter o.

>>10479332
This is... so big brained, anon???

>>10479332
thank you anon...

>>10479376
>>10479384
it doesn't work.

>>10479332
and then regularly people won't see your stuff in search either..

>>10479390
>>10479407
I just liked anon's idea because I drive a ton of traffic to my store myself so I don't really need it for tags/people int he searches. I just want to have the series name in my listing title without it being flagged so customers who come to my store from my social media can find it!

>>10479436
it will get flagged anyway if it's not already.

>>10479439
It's just to avoid the bot, not a definite solution.

>>10479390
What do you mean?

>>10479451
Really basic example, but typing "Pokemon" and "Pokemοn" (where the "o" is an omicron) will not give you the same results.

>>10479436
>I just want to have the series name in my listing title without it being flagged so customers who come to my store from my social media can find it!

but wouldn't they be able to tell what the series is from the photo?

>>10479478
>Here is a neat trick for avoiding takedown bots.
Cmon read the first line of the original post you fucking retard

>>10479488
i'm saying if bots can't search and find your item, then customers can't either.
If you don't need customers to search to find your item, then why even have the title with the trick?

>>10479478
I have around 100+ listings so I know that sometimes customers skim the titles of listings to try to find what they want. The thumbnails for things like posters might be instantly recognizable but when you have multi character acrylic keychain sets and such, the characters are a little harder to read immediately considering their size. It's just a nice thing that works for me, but I understand that it might not work for everyone. I just thought it was a neat thing for the anon to point out because I never would have thought of it myself.

>>10479463
Isn't that the point? A bot won't find the listing because of the omicron. Sure customers won't either but the main point is not having to come up with some quirky name for your title.

>>10479092
Why are you doing so many when you're just starting out? I'd suggest starting with less designs and working your way up. This was the same mistake I made when I started, and I ended up with tons of copies of art and characters that no one wanted. You don't need a huge catalogue right up front, especially since you're not tabling right away. It's the perfect opportunity to start small and work your way up to a larger catalogue as you learn what people like.

Just a thought I had while in the shower: does anyone here sell posters and standees? How do you ship them together? (Assuming the standee is wider than the diameter of a standard 3" tube.)
I don't offer either on my store atm but I'm curious lol just in case in the future I ever decide to put my stuff online...

>>10479527
>Why are you doing so many when you're just starting out?
I think a good number of the characters I plan to do keychains of are eternally popular (Mario characters, big Animal Crossing characters like KK and Isabelle, etc) and I didn't mind having them for a good while online. I also thought maybe I should put a big order to not get hit as hard on shipping
I think I will go with what the other anon said and start with 10 of each though!
I know cons won't be a thing for a good year or so but how many copies of things should I order for once I have a table? Just like I was with online I have no idea how many is actually good to stock

>>10479527
>Why are you doing so many when you're just starting out?
I think a good number of the characters I plan to do keychains of are eternally popular (Mario characters, big Animal Crossing characters like KK and Isabelle, etc) and I didn't mind having them for a good while online. I also thought maybe I should put a big order to not get hit as hard on shipping
I think I will go with what the other anon said and start smaller with 10 of each though! Maybe I will also cut down on some designs, I think I was just excited to get everything put up finally.
I know cons won't be a thing for a good year or so but how many copies of things should I order for once I have a table? Just like I was with online I have no idea how many is actually good to stock

>>10479528
Don't have standees but I use a stayflat mailer and so far haven't gotten any complaints. For multiple keychains or bigger ones I'll put it in bubble wrap before putting it in the mailer.

>>10479504
it's not really. it stops you from being searched properly and then it will get flagged anyways (some probably are already) it's not like the algorithm built itself, anon having that idea means people programming takedown algos likely did.

>>10479534
I'd order 10-15 of each design, you only have to sell 2-3 of each one to get your money back. It's sometimes hard to tell which design will be popular so you might as well increase your chances. If you end up selling out on a character you can always (draw new charm designs based on what's selling and) reorder in a month or two.

What's a good way to word a message to someone who has traced your art and is now selling it? I don't have any evidence other than lining up their art and mine the lines and shading are almost exactly the same so I don't want to come off too harshly or mean in case it's all a large coincidence.

>>10479834
If it lines up completely tear their ass a new one you coward. If they’re tracing your art they’re probably tracing others as well.
Have some fucking integrity as an artist, if not for yourself then for others I swear to god.

>>10479839
You’re probably right. I just have doubts since it’s fanart and the original character it’s based off of is really simple to begin with (similar to Hollow Knight). If they say that they didn’t trace then what do I really have to say back other than “Yes you did”? It’s the only thing up on their store so I don’t have anything that I can use as a “this doesn’t match your style or other interpretations of this character” etc.

>>10479847
Send them a message with a picture of both of the artworks lined up pointing out the similarities, and ask them to stop selling it or you'll have to contact the site their store's hosted on to take it down. I'd personally advice against posting it on social media and naming and shaming, at least until you know for a fact that they did indeed trace it, and won't cooperate with removing it from their store.

But I think that first of all you should get a second opinion, especially if the original character design is so simple that it honestly just could be a coincidence. You wouldn't want to cause a huge scene and ruin your own reputation with being overly dramatic, if your design was really similar to official art in the first place. That being said if it turns out they actually do trace and sell those artworks, the correct thing to do is to report them and have the products taken down/store closed. It shouldn't matter if it's just one artwork out of ten that's traced, it's still art theft.

>>10479895
I definitely agree with trying to reach out personally and peacefully first. And perhaps recommend if they have any other works traced they should take it out.

And absoluttelllyyy get a second opinion. And a third. And perhaps someone outside of your social circle. You dont want people agreeing with you just because they know you, and having that result in ruining your rep.

>>10479895
Ok thanks I'll do that. Yea it was never my plan to make it public, those situations always seem to get messy.

Yea I've gotten a couple second opinions and I originally found out from someone pointing it out to me. My design isn't entirely accurate to the original and a lot of artists draw the character a little inaccurately in different ways because it's hard to get exactly right so the stuff that does match is enough to be sus if it's just a coincidence. Thanks again

How often do you make and release new merch? With no cons coming I haven’t been thinking about when I should be putting orders in.

>>10480048
I usually release new stuff in batches every 3-4 months. Feels like a good amount of time for people to receive their orders, enjoy them, and feel ready to make a new order. They'll be able to rebuild spending money in that period as well. Personally I find artists who release a new product every other week, or release new items under the condition of something selling out first, very annoying and inconsiderate, especially during this time. I understand wanting to keep up hype but it's too much.

>>10480087
Thanks for saying this and for the inspiration, anon. You bring up such a good point in not oversaturating your audience, but still having some sort of cycle/schedule so that you aren't forgotten either.

I don’t want to derail the thread with the previous conversation about fanart and profiting off it, but is there a general “unspoken moral code” about making merch from small IPs? Seeing some stuff about among us merch recently and how it’s an “unspoken rule” (quoting from a post I saw) that you don’t make merch of indie artists work

>>10481098
It's generally considered shitty, yes, but I'm going to be that anon and say among us isn't indie because devolver is their publisher.

>>10481098
i feel like among us kind of falls into the 'i'd slightly judge you but not be bothered' territory that stuff like stardew valley does.

Fucks me off when people out here selling webtoon fanart though like that is legitimately one person who is (in all but literally a handful of cases) not making a ton of money off their work.

>>10481149
>>10481101
Makes sense, thanks anons. I'll probably stay away from making merch for them

>>10481101
But isn’t Devolver somewhat of an indie themselves? They only have 20 employees and mainly publish indie titles according to Wikipedia.

How do you guys feel about Hades? I was surprised to hear it was from an indie studio. They’ve stated in the past that they haven’t given anyone permission to sell fanart based on their games, but they haven’t put out any official statements (at least from what I could see).

>>10481098
I was just wondering the same but about Hades. I've been a fan of Supergiant since Bastion, but I know they're not going to make some of the merch I personally want. I've been waffling over whether or not it's a dick move to make a few pin designs.

>>10481098
It's just seen as shitty to take away profits from people that are independent creators as you are in more direct competition with them. People are generally less concerned about big companies because small artists are very unlikely to take away sales from them or compete with them.

On the other hand maybe they might be open to hiring artists to design merch for them if they can afford it.

Also saw that post you were talking about and the chicken shit admin locked it. God forbid anything enters a debate in that group.

>>10481286
>But isn’t Devolver somewhat of an indie themselves?
No, by definition, publishers can't be indie. Hell, I wouldn't even consider them a small company, given that they make enough profit every year to get a slot at EGS.

>>10481393
I don’t really follow? Why don’t you consider them indies and what do you consider an indie? This article refers to them and other similar companies as indie publishers. Regardless of how successful they are it doesn’t change that they are a small team and that Supergiant is also a small team not backed by a large corporation with people or money to spare to produce merchandising. https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/5/18652878/devolver-digital-anniversary-hotline-miami-serious-sam-indie-gaming

>>10481321
Tbh anon, ignoring the opinion that it’s shitty to sell fanart of an indie game that doesn’t seem to support people selling it, I think it’s a bit of a shit move to make merch so quickly after Hades was just finally officially published. It hasn’t even been out for a month (not including early access which in thus case I don’t think should be factored in). While you may have been a fan of them for years and you think you know their merch plans and habits, truth is that you don’t. Give them at least a couple months if not a year to release merch and then go make your pins. Doing it now is a shit move and shows greed over love of the game and it’s creators, but that’s just my two pence.

>>10481393
>>10481454
What’s EGS?

>>10481454
That's fair. I meant that their merchandising habits have been pretty consistent for a long time now (plush, vinyl/CDs, apparel), but you're right, they could branch out with how successful Hades has been. I'll hold off for a while and see what they release before I come up with any plans. Thanks!

>>10481454
You’re a thoughtful anon, thank you for your in depth answer.

>>10481459
Electronic Game Show, an industry show where game companies announce their big titles (except this year for obvious reasons). Devolver Digital has had floor space and a schedule slot for years, all of which are extremely expensive.

>>10481454
>Why don’t you consider them indies and what do you consider an indie?
Indie games are games without the backing of a publisher, a publisher can't be indie. And their revenue is relevant because we're talking about making merch of companies vs artists, if the argument is "making money off disney IPs is fine because they're a big corp" then Devolver IP's fall into the same category unless you know for a fact that the developers mantained merchandising rights as part of their contract.

>>10481521
While it’s true that indie games include games that are made without the a publisher, it also includes small development teams or teams that have been given more creative freedom and reign over the property they’re creating. You can reference here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indie_game

Regardless of nitpicking the details about Devolver, you can’t argue that simply because Supergiant Games is published by Devolver Digital, Supergiant Games is no longer an indie studio. For one thing, Devolver Digital is not a AAA game studio/game publishing label. To say that Supergiant isn’t an indie studio because they are published by Devolver is like saying that a WEBTOON or Tapas comic author (and their team if they have one) is not a small creator/indie level creator because they’re published by WEBTOON/Tapas.

Devolver doesn’t fall into the same category as triple AAA labels like Activision or Ubisoft. To even try to put it into the same category as Disney, a company worth billions upon billions with hundreds of thousands of employees is nonsensical. Even though they may make appearances as events such as EGS, appearances like that aren’t a show of wealth, they are investments to generate hype. Based off of Devolver’s hands off stance, the typical role of a game publisher, as well as Supergiant/Devolver’s merchandise stores it’s unlikely that Devolver has merchandising rights for Supergiant Games titles. As Supergiant Games claims themselves on Twitter in the past, they have not given rights for other people to sell merchandise which would include Devolver. In addition, even should Devolver have rights to sell merchandise I would find it highly unlikely that all the profits for said merchandise would solely go to Devolver and not a penny to the Supergiant team thus making fanart to sell would still be harming Supergiant via creating competing products.

>>10481607
>Regardless of nitpicking the details about Devolver, you can’t argue that simply because Supergiant Games is published by Devolver Digital,
But they are not? There are two conversations here, Supergiant IS indie, Innersloth went through Devolver for Among Us.

>>10481321
its probably a bad idea but get ur monz before someone slaps ur hand away from the cookie jar w/e

>>10472916
People like you come off as so entitled.
You're not entitled to likes and follows just cause you post something. Want people to pay attention to you? Make good quality or appealing shit, post it consistently and show it to the biggest crowd of people you can, ie popular tags or fanart.
Literally thats all it takes. If you're not getting the response you want maybe your art isnt good enough or maybe youre posting the same shit everyones seen. The algorithms youre so upset about are just trying to generate the most amount of clicks possible and if your shit isnt worth clicking, you arent going to grow.

>>10481635
They do here
>Indie games are games without the backing of a publisher
and here
>I'm going to be that anon and say among us isn't indie because devolver is their publisher

I can concede to not calling Devolver an indie company, however, I would still call them a small company in comparison to Nintendo, Activision, Ubisoft, Sony Interactive Entertainment, Microsoft, etc. They are primarily a publisher for indie titles. My main point is that simply because Devolver Digital is a publisher for an indie game, does not give free rein to sell art because they shouldn't be considered a "true indie".

Also to the Hades/Supergiant Games fanmerch debate, an artist asked yesterday and was denied so if you make merch of it, know that you are going against the creators' wishes. Consider hand slapped from the cookie jar lol

https://twitter.com/SupergiantGames/status/1310965757476392960?s=20
https://twitter.com/kfov_851/status/1311518935779602433?s=20

>>10481703
Sorry if this was unclear, but for clarity rewriting this
My main point is that simply because Devolver Digital is a publisher for an indie game, does not give free rein to sell art of indie games that Devolver Digital publishes because they shouldn't be considered a "true indie"

>>10481689
Dude that topic was dead and gone since the stone age. Why did you bother replying?

>>10481703
I'm a bit confused about those tweets, because the creator's reply states that they're against "reselling their original artwork", but then the person who asked goes on to say that they're against "selling fanmerch". Is it a miscommunication, or did the creator later specify that this includes fanmerch of fanart too, instead of just fanmerch made using official art?

I think it's good for indie creators to voice out their own preferences regarding fanmerch, but in this case it feels like the person originally asking the question just kinda ran with the answer and twisted it a little, which can eventually get confusing if the original creators didn't actually say that.

>>10481982
It's too hard to ignore the "irrelevant" post that hits too close to home huh?

>>10482086
Read the whole thing, they clarified that they don't want merch based on their properties.

>>10481703
I think this is fair to say not to make merch of those games. The mad dash to be first to make merch of a small franchise recently has been really weird to me since I'm old and don't remember people being this cutthroat to make merch, it was all a passion project back then

What are these short chains on enamel pins called? Looking to buy them in bulk.

>>10482123
Yea I feel like it's big FOTM energy, "How can I profit off this trend?" rather than "How can I spread my love for this title to our community?" without thinking about supporting the original creators. The trend for people to try to get into something specifically so that they can make merch for it is also a little offputting to me.

>>10470586
What products do you suggest for beginners trying to turn their art into products nowadays? One of my friends is finally feeling confident enough in her art that she wants to start selling, but I started selling years ago, back when everyone was still clamoring for pin-back buttons.
I'm thinking she should start with prints, stickers, and acrylic charms, since prints and stickers are relatively low cost and acrylic charms can be her "nicer" product.

>>10482295
Prints and stickers. She doesn't need the acrylic charms if she's just starting out.

>>10482186
just buy a roll/package of chain at michaels and trim it to size

>>10482295
Pretty much spot on I think. Pins are ok, too. Though I do have to say prints are hard to sell online (I'm assuming she's selling online). Acrylics are also pretty beginner friendly, though she just needs to not go crazy with quantity.

Making the move from Etsy to Shopify and was wondering if it was ok to put my Shopify store url in my banner image or is that against TOS? I could only find info about being able to put your site url as long as you aren't urging people to go to the offsite instead.

>>10482554
I've seen multiple people do it without consequence but I'm not 100% sure it's still within the rules.

>>10482554
i guess. I put my shopify link in my shop announcement saying "sign up for my newsletter here" a few months ago.

>>10482554
I've seen people put a linktree link and have their Shopify linked through there. I think that's within the rules since they also linked their social media/etc. stuff through there

How long does it usually take for Vograce to reply to an inquiry? I want to start an order but I’m paranoid I’m doing things wrong using Alibaba

>>10482786
Anywhere from an hour to two business days. They're currently on holiday so I suggest you wait until Tuesday for a response back though.

>>10482303
I'm just worried that prints and stickers alone won't cut it online and don't want to give her bad advice. A few of my friends have prints that sell decently well online (they don't sell well but its not like they're not selling any at all), but mine move the slowest out of all of my products while my stickers and charms move much quicker.

>>10482336
The initial advice I gave her was to focus more on paper products, mostly stickers, first since they don't take up a lot of room and are relatively cheap to produce, and only to get a small qty of acrylic charms. I'm not sure how well her style would translate to pins but I'll definitely suggest that as well.

Ty for your help anons!

Everyone whinging about Among Us fan merch are the same people who probably buy bootleg pokemon plush and off brand lolita knockoffs on wish. Fucking self righteous only when Twitter tells them to be.

Small artists making low quantities aren't taking anything away from the devs.

>>10484274

I mean the game is hella cheap, the creators prolly aren't making much money from it. Fanmerch sellers of small fandoms like that are just greedy and want money. Just own up to it instead of reeing with "what abouts" to try to feel better. If I ever sell fanart, I'd just own up that I intend to make money, not pretend I'm more moral than anyone.

>>10484274
> buy bootleg pokemon plush and off brand lolita knockoffs
Anon I sure hope you're not saying that the effect of fanmerch on a giant franchise like Pokemon is anything comparable to a small and cheap (free even on mobile) game like Among Us

I recently received a broken keychain (it appears the acrylic part where the charm and keychain are attached snapped in shipping). The package was wrapped in a bubble mailer and the other two keychains I ordered came fine. Since it's not the seller's fault, should I let them know that an item arrived broken? What's the proper way to respond in this situation (especially with the weird covid madness)?

>>10484460
let them know, even if you're not expecting a replacement, the artist might want to know what to look out for in future shipments.

>>10484274
I mean you'd think they'd make a bunch of money already with all the in-app purchases they have.
I love the baby crew mate that follows you around.

>>10484567

Even if every player bought all of them, it won't pay the devs or other people's multiple salaries in perpetuity.

>>10484570
They have their own merch store that sold out too so

>>10484590

So what happened to the "fanartists fill voids where IP owners never make merch!!!1" argument? The point is that it's not some noble cause to make money making fanart, it's a lucky career path and instead of whining about people discussing the ethics or work ethic of fanart sales/sellers, people should accept it's a lucky break making money and not act like they are better than anyone, just like original artists are wrong to be too aggressive towards reasonable fanartists.

>>10484590
So what? Every time you sell out of something on your store is it automatically enough for you to live on for the rest of your life? Or even for the next few months? Y’all don’t understand the money it takes to make a game independently and how much money you even get out of it in the end. They aren’t even done working on the game. They cancelled the sequel to focus efforts into improving the current one after the popularity its reached. Whether it’s on mobile or desktop, any purchases are subject to fees from the stores that they are being sold on, including add ons. They must’ve had to pay for the Unity license as well by now. Just because they are earning money as well, doesn’t mean that they’re lining their pockets with it either. Do you take all the earnings you’ve received from your store and spend it on yourself? They have to re-invest it into their business first before they can actually think to pay their own salaries. Where do you think the money towards partnering with Dual Wield Studios came from? You think DWS is doing work for them for free? If it was people talking about people making merchandise of an artists’ comic like Fisheye Placebo or Lore Olympus y’all wouldn’t be defending them. Stop treating indie games and their developers like they’re not people just because they put out polished work that gets popular. They put in fuck tons of effort with little to no security and for some of y’all not to recognize it and to even try to compare it to large companies like Disney is such absolute shit. This is coming from someone who is both a con artist and in the video games industry.

>>10484274
A fanartist makes a pin.
The devs make a pin 5 months later.
People who bought the fanartists pin are less likely to purchase the official pin because they already have one. It's really not that hard to understand.
If some semi-indie gamedev asks you not to make fanmerch, don't be a dick.

>>10484567
In app purchases aren't much, thats why mobile games push multiple consistent purchases.

>>10484730
Someone who enjoys the game isn't going to buy a single pin and then not support the official one that's a pretty weak argument. Also they have sold millions of copies on steam by now not including the dlcs for skins and pets and their team is 3 people. Even with fees and putting money back onto the game that's a shit ton of money split 3 ways. They have profited plenty enough from this and will continue to during their popularity surge that people making small quantities of fan merch isn't going to make a damn dent.

I just think it's pretty dumb to be all righteous about "indie" teams when all fan art is a gray area. Sanrio doesn't want us making fan merch either but nobody cares because ooo it's a "big company". Either condemn all fan art or mind your own business especially towards artists making small runs of products from the ground up vs the actual thieves and assholes who rip assets and copy paste them onto tshirts for a quick buck.

Honestly any of you who make ANY kind of fanmerch have zero ground to stand on pretending making Among Us fanmerch is any worse just because it's from a small team. I make stuff from properties I enjoy because I want to share in that enjoyment and yes, I make money off my work, and until the fanart policy comes out explicitly saying "don't do this" I don't think it's right for the twitter brigade to go around bullying artists about it. Obviously if their policies state not to, be respectful, but I'm mad at all the tweens harassing small artists right now saying shit like anyone who jumped on making merch for it is a greedy asshole.

>>10485101
If people are getting harassment that's because InnerSloth specifically stated that no one should be selling Among Us fanart/fan merch right now.

>>10485098
Steam takes 30% of earnings, and taxes are a thing. They're going to need that money to sustain themselves over the course of them working on the update, to hire more people like they did with DWS, or to produce merchandise and fulfill those orders.

Arguing that no one cares about Sanrio copyright is so stupid looking at how just about no one makes Sanrio fanart because the fear of getting taken down by Sanrio's lawyers. Bigger companies like Sanrio have way more time, money, and employees to enforce their copyright (Viz and Eric Green ring a bell?). Among Us's team is already known to be split thin over all the things they need to oversee and work on.

Also please, all the Among Us merch I've seen being made are basically ripoffs of the sprites from the game with no actual creativity added on.

>>10485110
^^^THIS

>>10485110
I'm gonna devil's advocate and point out that it says businesses not independent artists.

>>10485131
If you want to get into little details, I'm going to counter that argument by pointing out that independent artists that sell their art are automatically considered sole proprietors/sole proprietorship which is a type of business. Business defined as "a person, partnership, or corporation engaged in commerce, manufacturing, or a service; profit-seeking enterprise or concern." by Dictionary.com.

>>10485131
Independent artists still need to hold business licenses to pay taxes as sole proprietors. You would know this if you sell art at conventions or online? You're basically counted as a small business.

>>10485098

Nayrt but I DO personally "condemn" all fanart sales but the argument from fanart sellers is "big corporations won't miss this money, they're greedy we aren't taking from indie small creators wahhh", and now people are pointing out the obvious indie devs not wanting fanmerch or fanart sales or whatever and anons are still excusing it saying these three people potentially with families and decades left of their lives to live have "made enough split three ways" to justify disrespect of even small creators' wishes.

People will always rationalize their actions even when it contradicts how they claim to feel or think.

>>10485166
Sorry that me scrounging to sell a $3 pin of a game I like totally hurts these 3 people that are making several hundred thousands of dollars.

>>10485173
These 3 people are the sole creators of the game you like and were probably just like you not but a few months ago. They aren't some faceless corporation whose IP is owned by shareholders and multibillionaires. Don't be salty just because they said no, there are plenty of other titles for you to create for or you can go the MXTX route of selling P4P/trading if you actually like the game so much. Or maybe apply for the licensing program that they're putting together to help them make official merch?

>>10485173
>>10485098
>>10484274
yikes

>>10485173

If you mean enamel pins and you're pricing them at $3 no wonder you're fucking broke, dumbass.

Seriously tho if you're struggling to sell fanmerch and the IP holder doesn't want you to...just dont? Just make other fanart and share for free that doesn't require fnancial investment? Their character design is so simple most merch is just stealing it a copy pasting it on objects. At least some fanartists just posting for fun make them more anthropomorphic or make funny comics, etc.

No one feel bad for any of you trying to act like because you percieve yourself as more "poor" than an indie creator who just barely got popular you deserve to exploit their popularity and work for your own financial gain. If you have the money to get some Chinese company to produce your merch in bulk before you sell it or buy materials to produce fanmerch to sell, you ain't hurting that bad, chief.

>>10485098
>Either condemn all fan art or mind your own business
As if the acceptability of fanart isn't subject to scrutiny on a case by case basis.
And, it is my business. I do sell small amounts of fanart from certain properties. Funny tho, I don't sell fanart from companies that have asked me not to.

>>10485131
Yeah once you start trading products for money, you count as a business, at least in my country.

>>10484597
DA - Look I don't know about Among Us fandom, I'm not into it, but there are a shit ton of creative fan merchandise items that I can't find officially, and the art is BETTER in the fandom, so you can't just throw that whole argument out just because some people make copycat merchandise to get rich quick. When I find copycat merchandise that I could get from the official seller, no way in hell am I wasting my money on that when I could get the official stuff. I don't need to double up. But I get serious FOMO on the cute shit I find in artist alley that isn't being made by the official company.

>>10485804
>But I get serious FOMO on the cute shit I find in artist alley
Fucken t h i s
On average, my partner and I will go through artist alley 4 times a day per con, JUST IN CASE. And yeah, we usually find something we missed EVERY trip. Thats just how cluttered AA is.

So how big do they have to get before it's "acceptable" to make fan merch. FNAF, Minecraft, and Undertale all started out small too.

>>10486336
Honestly whether something ends up successfull or not shouldn't matter as much as the creators wishes. Even the creator of a massively popular franchise is well within their rights to ask people not to sell fanmerch of their IP. I feel like especially these days with social media being a thing, it's so easy to just directly ask these indie creators their thoughts on the subject that purposefully not doing so is being willfully ignorant in order to not get outright denied.
Also if you personally really like something, there's no reason why you must be able to make money off of fanmerch, instead of just promoting the work by publishing fanart. So why not err on the side of caution and (until otherwise stated) assume that creators don't want fanmerch to be sold?

Although that being said, I'm assuming the question of "is it acceptable" isn't about the creators feelings on the subject, but instead the possible backlash from the fandom (ie. customers), which is another matter entirely. And the only answer to that is honestly just how much do you personally care about your reputation possibly getting ruined vs. the money you'd be able to make.

>>10486350
>it's so easy to just directly ask

The problem is that if an indie creator tells someone on twitter that it's okay to produce merch, the way copyright law works, suddenly it's okay for ANYONE to make merch. So if you publicly state it's cool for people to make merch and then Hot Topic comes out with a line based on your IP without giving you a cent, you can't actually do anything about it. So this is why it's tricky to "just ask" creators, since their answers are generally purposefully vague if they give them at all. This is how you end up with answers like the ones the developer gave about Hades merch.

>I'm assuming the question of "is it acceptable" isn't about the creators feelings on the subject, but instead the possible backlash from the fandom

It's about whether the creators are "big enough" that they can't be financially damaged by fanart sales. Basically once something gets big and lucrative enough then it's safe for them to just ignore fanartists selling a few prints and pins. The problem is that people don't actually know what makes something "indie" and what makes something "big" because they think that something being super popular means it must be making tons of money, so you end up with dumbasses selling fanart of webcomics thinking that's the same as selling fanart of a Marvel character.

>>10486336
I think Undertale said it was okay to make merch early on? There's no real way to say how big since obviously we don't have access to anyone's financial statements, but if it's someone's first popular game you can make a pretty accurate assumption that they're not swimming in cash

Eric Green is loose again and more wild than the last time. Taking done simple fan art this time.

>>10486811
Someone on AANI flooded his inbox using MailBait during his last raid and it was hilarious.
Fan art sales are just way too risky now with companies C&Ding literally everyone and anyone. I hope companies realize that fan art sales aren't as damaging as they think they are.

>>10486811

Dude that posted in AANI today was selling pins of traced work though

>>10486938
>Someone on AANI flooded his inbox using MailBait during his last raid and it was hilarious.
lmao what?

>>10487015
>mailbait.info/run.html
It floods people's inboxes with spam mail with topics ranging from grocery delivery services to random shit like "yakuza pedicure/manicure".

>>10487082
Hm, this isn't really a funny or cool thing to do to someone, even if they are an asshole. It doesn't actually accomplish anything.

In y'alls opinion, when are you likely to go to a con again to table? Seeing someone going around asking about cons for early 2021 made me confused so just wondering what everyone else's predictions/hopes are. As for me, hopefully assuming that things clear up in 2021 (please), I think I won't see a convention until late 2022 or maybe even 2023 since I'm immunocompromised and my family is really cautious. I'd want to wait about a year after it's proclaimed to be over before putting myself back out in con crowds as much as I miss them.

>>10488082
a vaccine is on track to be widely distributed by summer 2021, so i'd say around then.

>>10488001
Agreed. It sucks he's taking down so much but also it's his job so... Get over it? Make something else from your own original IP?

>>10488253
I mean I don't agree with that either, just that the problem isn't going to be fixed by spamming his email.

>>10488001
Cry harder, he’s been harassing peoples listing that are original work too. Look up @heroine_creative on Insta

>>10488366
The works that got flagged by him were her fan art, not her original art. The pins that were taken down were Demon Slayer, Hunter x Hunter, and Inuyasha pins, which are 3 of the IPs that Eric Green is known to go after. She says on her Eric Green highlight that a Viz employee confirmed that EG is legit.

>>10488366
I don't empathize with him, just saying it's not actually going to accomplish anything. There was a discussion last thread about doxxing and whether information like this is "private", and so it feels kind of iffy to not only be sharing the info from a legal document (the DMCA is a legal document) online, but also using that information to harass the other person. He doesn't deserve my sympathies, but this is still a misuse of that info and not helpful.

>>10488522
This. I don't empathize with him either, but spamming him does nothing. If anything, it makes fan artists look worse than they already do.

I’ve heard that prints tend to do a little more poorly online so what exactly does well? Stickers? Pins?

>>10489124
Prints with special coatings I notice do way better than the usual matte/gloss, like glitter/holo/gold prints even though I price them higher

>>10489124
Pins, expecially enamel pins, do really well although acrylic pins also do decently.

The BEST seller though has to be acrylic charms, especially if you have sets!

Anything you'd consider a "3D" good like acrylic charms, pins, pouches, etc move much faster than prints and other paper based items.

>>10489124
Washi tapes and stickers sell well for me. I am primarily a paper goods shop so my audience is less interested in 3d goods. However, >>10489603 is right in that 3d goods generally sell the fastest and you can sell them at a higher price.

Are velcro patches too niche? I don't see them in fandom spaces outside of Blizzcon.

>>10493340
I haven't seen anyone sell those before, but depends on your audience. How do you use those? I've only seen an artist sell velcro patches, but they also had a velco bag and hat that they sold them with.

>>10493340
They’re hyper niche. Other than bags and hats like the other anon mentioned, the only application I’ve seen for these is for service dogs (ie do not pet signs) and for tactical vests for paint balling (usually edgy tacticool shit).

>>10493340
Needing a velcro surface to adhere them to reduces the amount of places you can display them, unlike pins or charms. I buy iron-on or sew-on ones because I can attach them to any surface with a little work, but I don't know what to do with velcro. I assume Blizzard sells articles of clothing or bags which have loop surfaces to support the collection of those patches. Something to keep in mind.

>want to do artist alley at least once just for the memory's sake
>figure it'd just be a sour memory if i don't make any sales, so i'll make an etsy shop with everything i want to sell beforehand
>look up stuff like anime prints and specific series i want to sell stuff of to see what i'd be competing with
>90% of the art is amateurish, but somehow these people manage to make tons of sales
How? Do customers just have zero standards and will buy anything with their favorite characters? I don't want to call anyone out in particular because that's an incredibly assholeish thing to do, but a good 90% of the stuff I see by artists on etsy is not very well drawn, to be frank. I've gone through a lot of stuff and I can probably count the amount of stuff I'd personally buy on one hand. Is it just incredibly easy to make money as a fanartist?

>>10496212
a good amount of making sales online is dependent on your marketing skills.

>>10496212
>Do customers just have zero standards and will buy anything with their favorite characters?
yes.

>>10496217
How do you even market yourself online? The market is so oversaturated. Sometimes artists with much larger followings than me will follow me back on twitter and retweet something I did, which will get me a bigger influx of attention than normal, but on my own I've never really been good about it. I can never find that sweet spot between trying too little or trying too hard. I don't know if it's a problem with my art or me as a person.

If you can't match Love Live's R rarity cards in terms of art skill, you really have no place selling your art in a professional setting. This probably sounds like bait but it's not. It's not a very high bar to set imo, a lot of them look incredibly flat and stiff like picrel.

Never done this before, is it considered scummy to draw something and make it both a sticker and a keychain?

>>10496307
No. This is a pretty normal thing to do, actually.

>>10496212
You can't judge based on a browse on etsy. People who are doing well but have art that looks "amateurish" might be doing a multitude of things that you would never think of. Likewise someone who looks like they're doing well may not actually be doing well; public facing info isn't the whole picture. Just go start selling your art and learn from there, don't get so hung up on other people.

>>10496329
I’ll admit, I don’t have any experience selling in an online shop so I don’t really know what it’s like or what goes on, but a lot of people I saw had multiple people with the item in their cart. In the end, that post was me just being salty that I have to do furry fetish art to survive but these people could draw fanart instead. This isn’t my blog, but I want to do that too.

>>10496282
>If you can't match Love Live's hustle in terms of marketing, you really have no place selling your art in a professional setting.

Fixed that for you. Btw Rin best Love Live

>>10496361
The reason furry fetish art and fan art seem to garner more buyers than original works is because both have characters or concepts with value to people. Fan art is easier to make money with than original characters because the value and the connections those IPs bring to people is already there. Furries are different in that they are a community built on creating and showing off their ocs way more than anime fans. They are way more likely to spend money on commissions of their characters and fetish art because of this community they've built. Original art that sells well is stuff that resonates with people, gives them something that they can identify with or associate themselves with. Look past the art and think about what a piece represents, what it is trying to convey to people. This is also why you'll see amateur art sell very well compared to masterworks. It's easier for the public to digest when it has a concept besides the quality of art they can get behind. You also have to remember the people that mostly buy this stuff are people that aren't artists nor have an eye like trained artists. They are much more impressed with what we would consider low quality art. Original concepts also have established fan bases like fan art, they are just way less specific and tied to a single character or IP like fan art is.

>>10496307
This is completely normal in the AA
Some people can't afford a keychain so they pick the more affordable option of a sticker while still supporting the artist

>>10496429
t. someone who can't find the mistakes in the drawing

>>10496212
It's like 100% marketing and selling things in sets. I'm not the greatest artist in the world and I find my own work very mediocre but I make more money than some of my very talented friends because I'm much better at marketing myself and pandering to con crowds specifically. I've noticed that it's kind of a learned skill?

Like for example - if you just make 1 Deku keychain? That's not gonna net you a lot of sales overall. If you do an entire set of as many BNHA characters as you can? Then you actually get way more sales because people will buy Deku with whatever ships they have, etc. You can also stick all the keychain chibis you did on a poster to have an overhead visual at cons so people will look at the smaller stuff on your table. You can tile the keychain designs into a pattern and print totebags or pencil pouches. You can turn them into sticker sheets. People LOVE collecting matching things/sets.

If you have a buy 2 get 1 free deal, have 3 items from a similar concept/fandom. So for example, if you like FE3H, instead of making 1 poster with the house leaders, you might make 3 matching prints. And you'll sell 3 prints almost every single sale instead of just the 1 because now you've hooked them and they want all 3 to match. This works for original art too. Like if you do draw something with witches for example you can make 2 extra witch prints so people will be incentivized to spend more money at your table.

I also never reuse poster art as is for miniprints. If you draw each character on a different layer for a group poster, then you can separate the individual characters onto postcards. That way you're not cannibalizing your poster sales since it's technically not the same picture. But people who want just the one character or want sets of certain characters will still buy the postcards. (1/2)

>>10496589
As for building an online following like >>10496221 asked, it depends on the person but it really... takes time. Like several years worth of time.

What's really important is interacting with other users. Most of my repeat customers (both online and in person at cons) follow me on social media and regularly interact with my work. You need to be posing open ended questions they can respond to so you can drive up engagement. (Ex: if you post a Halloween drawing you might say something like "What are you dressing up as this Halloween?" or if it's fanart you might say something like "I love xyz character, who's your favorite?")

When you're just starting out, sharing about your life and such is actually a great way to get people to regularly engage with your account. YMMV since some people HATE seeing personal stuff on art accounts but most of my followers love that layer of parasocial interaction. You can always still incorporate your art into personal posts (draw your OOTD, draw what you ate that day, draw a fun relatable comic about something that happened to you). Just posting fanart and leaving might make your social media accounts seem cold and impersonal rather than "professional".

Keep professionalism for your portfolio sites. Actively engage others on social media.

>>10496589
>>10496590
humu humu, naruhodo. I'm sure your art is fine anon, there are some artists who can get hundreds of followers based on mediocre art, but once you creep into the thousands, it's typically because people genuinely like what you do. The artists I've seen with 1k+ followers who have art that would be considered "mediocre" have genuine potential and are constantly improving. I'm sure you're the same way. I understand my original post was very rude, but part of it was a vent because I've worked very hard to improve my art to the level it is now, so it hurts to see it overlooked in favor of art I rudely and wrongfully deemed as lesser.

The bit about doing more than one character is very interesting though, and definitely shows off where I'm lacking. I was also planning on doing a print with everyone from a specific series, similar to pic related, since I thought it'd be an eyecatcher and sell well, but if it's the exact opposite then that just shows I have a lot to learn.

Thank you very much for sharing your wisdom! I will take it all to heart.

>>10472062
>tfw thought Remove Your Content, LLC was just a witty joke considering the state of things
>tfw it's actually real

>>10496586
There are no mistakes because Rin perfect.

>>10496599
There is definitely a market for group posters too! It all depends on the fandom and context. The example I used with FE3H works because there are 3 distinct main house leaders that you can use to separate the prints and people love identifying with a specific house. (Kind of the same logic as Harry Potter or personality quizzes.)

If you love doing group posters - let's say for example your fandom is My Hero Academia - you might do a "Heroes" print with some student characters. But if you want to drive up sales, I'd suggest you do a matching "Villains" print with the villain characters. And if we go by the rule of three, I'd suggest a final "Teachers/Pro-Heroes" print with the adult characters. It's not necessarily only about "separating" the characters but rather focusing on creating viable "sets" for people to buy.

"Opposing factions" is a great excuse to make different posters from the same fandom and more often than not, people will buy all of them. This is also great for rival-shippy dynamics like Deku-Bakugo (MHA), Kylo-Rey (Star Wars), & literally any sports anime ever.

Another thing you might consider is visibility at a convention. I've seen my friends super detailed group illustrations not do as well as expected at cons specifically because you can't see all the details/characters from far away while single-character posters stand out immediately. But you're right in that group illustrations can be really impressive and effective when done well so just choose your fandom/source material wisely!

Of course, choose your deals based on your sets. So if you're doing sets of 2 you might want to offer your posters at "$15 each/ two for $25" but if you're doing sets of 3, you would do "$15 each/buy two get one free"

How big of a portion of your sales does MHA merch make up? I don't want to do any for personal reasons but if it'll make me a ton of money I'll suck it up. Froppy is cute.

>>10497006
I don't sell MHA because I find it underwhelming, but can I ask what your personal reasons are? If they're intimate and you don't wanna share that's cool. I'm just curious since I ONLY see praise for this show.

>>10497159
I don't know if I'd call them intimate, it's just that I was into it before the anime was even announced and when it finally aired I was very excited and watched it with an ex on rabbit who put me in a situation that gave me panic attacks essentially every day. We were both dumbshit teenagers at the time and are on good terms now, but I just feel weird around it. I also feel bitter that it's not just my thing anymore, as hipstery as that is.

>>10497006
I feel like the market is over saturated and it’s on its way out desu. I don’t see it hitting a popularity high again anytime soon.

Do you guys think Kawaii Kon will be on next year? They were accepting applications at this time last year, but their page hasn't even updated from last year despite determining 2021 con dates. They haven't responded to my email either. On the other hand though, Hawaii has opened for tourism again and the governor has just ok'd the next stage of reopening, so I feel like it's more likely than a mainland con, but I'm not sure.

>>10497168
Well, intimate in the way that they're too personal for you to wanna share to a forum like this.
But it sucks you went thru that, good to know you're managing to get past it. Big ups to you friend.

>>10497188
Definitely over saturated, so even if I were a fan, I'd stick more to my niche properties coz the fans seem a bit more appreciative, since there's so little of it.

>>10497587
I wouldn't want to go into it if we weren't anonymous, but since we're all anons here, it's fine. I didn't include it in my OP because I thought I'd get shit on for blogging.

>>10497006
echoing the oversaturated. i ran a second round of charms that unfortunately didn't do as well as my first and now still have them 2 years later (also gotta watch out for funi sweeps).

>>10497006
It really depends on what characters you draw. My MHA stuff is at the top for my most viewed/most sold listings on Etsy. If you focus on newer characters/manga only characters you'll get much more sales than just doing like Deku and friends.

A lot of people who buy this stuff are women, right? I heard sexy male pinups do way better than female ones, but the problem is that most of the stuff I like is waifu focused as opposed to husbando. Should I focus on the few mainstream stuff I like to maximize sales, like Dangan Ronpa and Fire Emblem?

>>10498164
Not sure about who is buying most of this stuff, but there are plenty of women who like women > men. Focus on what you like there’s enough for both.

>>10498164
You'll just get different audiences if you draw sexy pinup ladies versus sexy pinup men. There are plenty of people who will buy for both, and it also depends on your artstyle

>>10497188
>>10498004
>>10498059
>the currently working on a set of prints for MHA characters

Well shit, it was good practice at least.

>>10498164
I don't know what conventions you've been to. Every con I've been to always has a bunch of pinup booby girl booths and plenty of guys (and some girls) buy those. You're also way less likely to get mocked and bothered by awkward straight guys who get uncomfortable when confronted by pinup dude art. If anything it's way more normie to have waifu shit. Sexualized women are more mainstream. Don't act like you're oppressed.

>>10498175
>>10498180
I'm not even into big booby ladies, I just like cute girls and some of them happen to have huge tits. I'm more into cuteness over sexiness desu.
>>10498337
>Don't act like you're oppressed.
Where did that come from? I was just asking advice since a lot of successful AA artists are women who, on the surface, seem to have an audience of largely women. Are you ok anon? Do you have something you'd like to talk about?

>>10498472
Ok lol didn’t ask for what does it for you. Just said that wlw too

>>10498472
Sorry for the (you) then, I was just grouping the response together
>inb4 didn't ask for your motive either

>>10498472
>Where did that come from?
I've done male pinup art and every convention I have to deal with juvenile babyshit guys who are unable to handle it. Meanwhile I've been right across the aisle from booths of bikini'd 14 yr olds and no one bats an eye at those. Something for you to keep in mind if you table in the future.

If you really have no problem doing either then you should do a little of both and see what people will buy from you. Ultimately though you will do better if you make things you are actually interested in rather than just making art with profit in mind. If you make things just for profit you'll end up with a fanbase you can't actually connect to and people will eventually see it for what it is.

The thread is already dying and I cant find a concrete answer anywhere:

If you purchase a commission from an artist at a convention, would posting it on a website you own that makes its primary income from advertisements a dick thing to do? I get that you're unable to sale a drawing unless you pay extra for commercial use, but I have no idea if advertisements on a gallery-based website falls under commercial use or is fair game.

>>10499139
When in doubt, just ask the artists first. Most of them would probably be fine with it as long as the work isn't being sold directly and is being credited to them, but I could see it making some artists uncomfortable. Technically you ARE monetizing the art, as it's the whole reason people would be browsing that site and loading the ads. Your intent in purchasing the commissions probably matters a lot here.
If this is a retroactive thing where you already have a bunch of commissions in a gallery and are deciding whether to put ads on it, yeah, it's a little scummy, but at least it reads more as an afterthought.
If this is more like a business plan thing, where you are going to set out to get commissions for your gallery with the sole intent of generating ad income from them, that's pretty exploitative and I wouldn't recommend it.

>>10499155
Ah, I get what you're saying. Thanks, Anon.

>>10498164
youd be killed on sight by teens if you did any danganronpa v3 pinups fyi

>>10498611
You don't know what those people have to deal with when you're not looking. Like >>10499302 said, for some reasons teen think you're jacking off to them in particular when you make anything slightly sexy of anime characters and equate you to being a pedo, no matter what the character looks like, and these people legitimately, 100% and fully want to see your life ruined for drawing the wrong anime character.

>>10499302
Danganronpa kids seem to get worse every generation desu

>>10499677
I know it's easy to forget with this terrible year being what it is but twitter isn't the same as a convention bud. Teens aren't cancelling tiddy artists in person.

I'll repost next thread but Supergiant updated their merch policy. There will be another update in the coming weeks because people on Twitter asked for clarification but here ya go

https://www.supergiantgames.com/blog/policy-on-fan-merchandise/

Anyone see this?

>>10500576
What's the context for this? One single chargeback issue?

>>10500576
I’m curious what caused Paypal to suddenly place a hold on her funds. I read a bit of her Twitter feed but couldn’t find much details.

>>10500591
Context is she had her store launch for preorder items which was wildly successful and pulled in $80k, then PayPal is now withholding the money despite her fairly clean track record.

>>10500666
Imo they did it basically because it’s a sudden influx of a large amount of money. PayPal has done this several times before with several artists from amounts varying from $30 to $80k as seen here. This issue happens relatively often. I’ve seen at least 5-10 artists post or tell me about it about it over the past few years.

>>10500719
>Imo they did it basically because it’s a sudden influx of a large amount of money.
Yep, 100% it. Its obviously annoying, but i'm not surprised.

>>10500758
I wonder if a good workaround for any artist using Paypal to accept store payments is to move funds out asap after the pre-order. Or is the only solution is to stop accepting Paypal and use on Stripe or Shopify Payments instead?

>>10500797
Likely an automatic system basically every processor uses freezes an account when unusual activity is detected. Maybe there is even some laws regarding it? I know if you try to deposit over $10k in cash in a bank, something similar will happen. Its required to be reported to the IRS.
Probably best solution is to contact paypal before you accept the pre-orders to inform them why you will get a large amount of money, sorta like how if you plan to travel and spend a lot, its a good idea to contact your credit card company about it so they won't freeze your card.

>>10500719
>>10500758
A service that handles financial transactions for businesses should never be jumping in and interfering with its clients finances and ability to complete sales that have already been made. If they can't look at a client and tell a small business from a drug dealer then the problem is entirely on their end. It needs to stop happening,

>>10500970
>If they can't look at a client and tell a small business from a drug dealer
but they can. It just takes a few days to make that determination.

for self-branding, is it okay to use the same handle across your portfolio if you do a lot of different (no smut) things or is it better to have one for each thing?

>>10500970
Isn't the issue here that Paypal doesn't allow preorders? Which is fucking retarded, but their reason for interfering is that the client goes against their service terms.

>>10501011
Some artists are waiting months to years for them to figure things out.
>>10501091
If they don't then they're very selective and inconsistent about it. I pay for preorders all the time on actual businesses with paypal. If this is the reason they're repeatedly punishing so many small artists then they need to improve their messaging on it, and actually reinforce it for big businesses as well.

>>10501257
All I found was this:
https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/presale-policy-and-reserves

>PayPal’s preselling requirements.
>If you’d like to presell items in an online store, keep in mind you’ll need to guarantee delivery within 20 days from the date of purchase and also let your customers know they’re buying a presale item.

Though I can't imagine this is enforced strictly. This is bullshit though, nowadays 20 days might not even cover the delivery time, never mind production.

>>10501304
I guess the only way around it is for the artist to not accept Paypal as a form of payment when running pre-orders. Just to be safe.

I ran pre-orders back in May. But I had the dynamic checkout options (Paypal/G pay/Apple Pay) disabled on my shopify. I couldn’t start shipping out my preorders until August due to the pandemic messing up production times and shipping. I’m so glad I accidentally had the option to accept Paypal turned off. In hindsight, had I taken Paypal, Paypal could have frozen my account wtf.

>>10501339
What pay methods did you have enabled for international customers?

Does anyone hace experience selling merch on Pixiv Booth and/or using Pixiv Factory? I have a parge audience on Pixiv but I don't live in Japan so I don't know how I'd be able to make money from it.

>>10500970
>doesnt remember the niconiconii isis scandal

paypal deals with a lot of bullshit the artist is a retard

>>10470586


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>>10501445
Shopify pay. It’s basically credit card. I don’t see how it would make a deference if the customer is international or not. If you got a credit card. You can pay for your order.