/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

"I feel like the price is worth it."

Are you trying to convince them or yourself?

Normies think any clothing that's more than 20 dollars from Walmart is dumb since clothing is largely a functional thing for the general populace. It's a common trope in media to portray materialistic characters getting upset when their expensive clothing is ruined, likely meant in a mocking way since most people think "it's a shirt, who cares that you spent 500 bucks on it?" It's probably worse when it comes to lolita since nobody sees the dresses as an adult thing, but something they would buy for a little girl and thus not to be taken seriously enough to drop that much money on.

I'd say that the thought and detail put into many lolita pieces is enough to warrant a price that's hundreds of dollars. I've seen plain black trench coats go for almost $600 or more just because it's from a luxury brand, so why can't a dress that has such intricate and beautifully drawn art go for just as much, if not more? And then there's the matter of lace, frills, ruffles, buttons, etc. being thought out in their placement and what they'll look like, down to every little detail. For the thought and work out into most dresses alone it's worth it.

>>10129674
Pic related is $348 from Tory Burch. Just send them to the Allsaints or Ted Baker website. They won't be convinced that lolita is "worth its price" because they don't think this normie shit is worth its price either, even though it's mainstream as fuck.

Just say you have expensive taste, you can afford it, and it makes you happy. You're not going to win any battles here.

Pic related is $348 from Tory Burch. Just send them to the Allsaints or Ted Baker website. They won't be convinced that lolita is "worth its price" because they don't think this normie shit is worth its price either, even though it's mainstream as fuck.

Just say you have expensive taste, you can afford it, and it makes you happy. You're not going to win any battles here.

>>10129674
"I'm not buying this to wear it once or twice before giving it to a friend or charity shop. I plan to wear my Lolita dresses for many years. They may be cute, but these dresses are high quality and are made to last."

>>10129674
You can't. Because it's not objectively worth the price. You prefer to pay it because you find value, it's not like lolita is sewn with golden threads and embellished with real diamonds or something. It may be slightly better than your rando fast fashion clothing but still nowhere near couture etc. What makes it valuable is people giving it value, so it will never be valuable for an average normie.

The designs are unique and can't easily be found anywhere else for the same quality, so I'm prepared to pay the asking price.

Main pieces with custom prints are even easier to justify, because designing and producing decent quality custom printed fabric in relatively small runs is expensive as hell. My aunt is a smallish fashion designer who HATES lolita (she thinks adult women should all dress sexy and minimalist) but since she's familiar with the clothing manufacturing process she actually agrees that the dresses at least are worth the asking price. She's also said that lolita brands most likely aren't running large profits on their dresses alone, though there's a good chance they make up for it with other things like accessories, cardigans, etc.

why do people pay hundreds to thousands to hundreds of thousands for art pieces and why do people pay more for fancy aged wine when convenience store beer does the job of getting you drunk?

it’s normal for normies to lust after normie brand stuff that costs more than lolita, at least lolita actually has an extravagant look and quality to match the price

>>10129674
its not worth the price you insecure little faggot, admitting that youre splurging is the first step

>>10129727
Why wouldn't you say it's worth the price?

>>10129674
I just explain to them that they are designer pieces like any other brand name clothes. I don't care if they think "it's worth it" because lots of people think designer items are dumb and overpriced, but it helps them understand why they cost that much.

>>10129734
Nayrt but most likely because in the end it's just clothes that are mass produced and not even using the best materials in some cases. The dresses themselves are most likely not worth ~$300, we are paying for the brand name.

>>10129753
>The dresses themselves are most likely not worth ~$300

i mean with shitty mall chains like ann taylor charging $150 for a dress that's half as interesting and half as detailed, then it would make sense to pay $300 for a lolita piece that's twice as detailed and twice as interesting as a $150 dress. it also keeps its value significantly better than an ann taylor dress would on the secondhand market

also, i know that the $300 number is what always gets dropped, but most new release OPs from major brands are 25000-28000yen ($225-$250USD) so even with shipping the vast majority of main-band new releases don't hit the oft-parroted $300 mark

>>10129674
I don't have to do this because all my normie friends wear expensive designer shit and it all costs more than lolita

>>10129760
>mall chains like ann taylor charging $150 for a dress

They are not worth that price either it doesn't justify lolita just because some shitty brand overcharges. People are free to buy what they like even if it's overpriced you don't have to make a case out of it.

>people think $400 for a dress is expensive
Tell them to leave jcpenny for once in their life.

>>10129753
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm paying $300-350 a dress because I want Metamorphose and Baby to stay in business. Better linings and more designs would be nice but I'm not wanting $500-600 releases

>>10129805
I feel like none of you are taking labor and other expenses into consideration. A lot of big brand lolita isn't made in china so the cost for prodution and print design needs to be factored into the "worth".

You can't box lolita in with the same fast fashion you buy at the mall because it's not produced the same way, even if you consider it to be a fast fashion. If we look at the levels of fashion production, lolita would sit somewhere at brand diffusion<, since the majority if big lolita brands have largish production numbers but nowhere near the amount of general economy fashion.
Not to mention that advertising, rent, and employee pay need to be included in the "worth". For AP, BTSSB, +co to survive as a business these external factors need to be represented in the price. Otherwise, no burando!
It comes down to this: when you buy any type of clothing, especially in a niche fashion, you're not just paying for the dress, you're also paying to allow the business to continue existing and growing. Because if brands charged only what the dress was worth in materials and constuction, then we wouldn't HAVE brands anymore

I buy Lolita because im against fast fashion. I support fair labor and small businesses

>>10129760

Sucks to me, I regularly pick releases that are over 30000yen before I even start, and since I like matching things by the time I add just the headbow and socks it's already over $350 before I even ship it.

On the upside, expensive dresses means quite often it's easier to show the details that makes it expensive (custom lace, custom trim, novelty buttons, custom artwork, nicer fabric, detailed dress details, etc), and then top it off with "you can't buy these anywhere else except at this shop/brand, so either I pay that much or I don't own the dress. And I want this dress, I really want it badly". Usually people can relate to that, especially if it's a print dress that you can compare to paying for artwork.

The other thing is to compare it to Lambos, which even the stupidest guys generally seem to grasp are desirable and totally have zero issues agreeing that some car is worth the million dollars or whatever Lambos cost. Then just say you can't afford a lambo even if you saved up your entire life so you got into lolita because it's a cheaper hobby.

For girls, namedrop some expensive handbag brand. Chanel bags are about $10k, so a $250 dress (with matching $30 headbow and $30 socks) now seems totally reasonable.

>>10129836
My normie wardrobe is almost 100% ethical+sustainable because I’m a hippie greenfag but lolita is neither of those things.
Most dresses are 100% polyester, which is just the tip of the iceberg

>>10129843
oh I know.
what normie brands would you recc?

>>10129843
>most dresses are 100% poly
I thought most dresses are cotton? The lining is synthetic.
Also, while I respect your commitment to ethical clothing, claiming that lolita isn't a good choice because it's not "100%" ethical or sustainable is... condescending at the the very least. The second hand turnaround potentional for the dresses means that a lolita's wardrobe is generally at least partially recycled clothing, and furthermore not as likely to fill a landfill as the mass-produced one-time-wear walmart t-shirt. Lolita is a fashion with a culture around taking care of clothing, where quality is preferred over simple quantity. I have pieces the predate 2002, and they're in wonderful condition. I mean, maybe it doesn't meet your standards, but it's worlds better than the fashion most people consume.

>>10129848
UH a little ot, but I guess it puts prices into context for folks who usually shop fast fashion.
Eileen Fisher is my favorite, but the style doesn’t work for everyone.
Patagonia is famous and popular for outdoorsey stuff.
Adidas- surprisingly- is one of the most ethical popular sportswear brands.
Reformation is the go-to online brand
A lot of ethical stores are small and online only, and more are popping up all the time. Doing research online is the best way to find them. You can also think of brands you like and research how sustainable+ethical they are, and search for alternatives if they don’t meet your standards.

>>10129857
>Adidas
Im crying Adidas is in the process of ditching China for Vietnam bc China's worker wages are getting too high. Ethical my ass

>>10129851
>lolita isn’t a good choice
Sorry, you misunderstood me. I love lolita, I love the fashion. I only wanted to point out that just because something is expensive doesn’t necessarily guarantee that it’s ethical and sustainable. Your point about secondhand is very true. The nature of this community to prioritize reselling over throwing away is much more green than fast fashion. I was coming from a perspective of very high standards, since typically I would never buy anything with polyester in it unless I knew it was made from entirely recycled materials- which I understand is not average.

>>10129851
I would say 60 poly/synthetic 40 cotton. And I agree with your point. I think anon is too polar. Lolita may not be perfect but it’s an improvement.

>>10129864
You do know recycling is a ploy right? 100% organic/degradable is the only “righteous/eco” choice, anything else is lying to yourself.

>>10129867
This is entirely off topic.
Girlfriend collective is another online brand that makes leggings out of water bottles found the ocean, a good example of recycled plastic.
>>10129861
You really caused me to scramble, anon! It’s possible I don’t know everything about Adidas, I’ve used it as an example in the past because it’s a very popular brand that’s been vocal about making strides in the right direction. I’ll have to look into this further, so thank you for pointing it out.

Also I’m not going to reply further, since this isn’t the place for this discussion.

>>10129753
Nayrt, but read the last paragraph of this anon. >>10129720
The dresses certainly are worth that much especially considering how much overhead the big brands have and the smaller brands with less overhead make the dresses in Japan.

>>10129674
I point them to my Rick Owens pieces and ask them to guess the prices of those.

>>10130691
>muh Rick Owens
Are you fucking kidding

>>10130691
>>>/fa/

>>10130778
what's wrong with Rick Owens? Some of us have multiple styles.

>>10129674
when there are people willing to shell out ridiculous money for a white shirt that says 'supreme' on it, I don't think anyone should bat an eye at spending a lot on a detail heavy fashion thats ten times more interesting and fun.

“I don’t have to worry about money, and it’s rude of you to comment on other people’s spending habits”

Shuts them up real quick. Where I’m from it’s impolite to talk about finances with people you aren’t close to.

It's a hobby, just like video games, collecting figures, or whatever shit normies do.

I don't drink much, just socially, and concerts and clubs aren't really my thing, so as much money as a non-lolita would spend on these hobbies over the course of a month is about the same as a single dress for me (sometimes they end up spending more than I would). I think most people balk at the thought of dropping that much money on a single item in one go, but when you compare how much money they spend on alcohol, outings, etc, I'm really getting the better deal, because at least I know I'm going to get multiple uses out of a dress, and I can always sell it and get something back otherwise.

>>10129674
You can't they will just think you are crazy

>>10130691
You’re an enormous faggot, anon. Detailing about the price of things is such a poorfag pretending to not be a poorfag thing to do, not to mention cringe as fuck.

I liken it to wearable art pieces

>>10129674
I tell them the clothing are collectable pieces.

>>10129701
>made to last
Do you just tell them this to shut them up or do you actually believe it?

>>10132936
Nayrt but I own several pieces that were originally released in the early 2000s and they're in flawless condition. Lolita clothes do last if you take care of them.

>>10129674
You don’t try to convince them, you talk about it like it’s a really normal thing to do and they’ll end up feeling bad for wearing rags.
One co-worker once talked about watches and made me feel like a poorfag for only owning a $200 one.

>tfw never have this issue because my entire wardrobe is second-hand, thrifted, or taobao.

>>10132986
This is mood. Every time someone is like
>oh I love that style but its too expensive for me
I'm always like
>oh I know mine are all second hand! Much too expensive to buy new

>>10129674
I justify it because it gets me more social media likes than normal clothes.

>>10132975
That legitimately sounds like an insecurity issue. Why would someone else spending a ton of money on their own niche hobby make you feel "bad for wearing rags" as a normie? Most people don't want to dress lolita because of the attention it brings. Even most of the people who like the style don't wear it daily for that reason.

>>10129857
I'm glad there's more sustainable fashion coming up, but I hope it develops beyond "earth mother shapeless tunic" and "minimalist monochromatic shapeless blouse" soon, I can't really pull that off.

>>10133691
This so much, 80% of my wardrobe, lolita and normie, is secondhand/thrifted but I am a goth bitch at heart. Where are my sustainable goth brands.

>>10133703
>needing goth brands to dress goth
Just wear black anon lol you don't need brands for goth

>>10133707
That's fair anon and I pretty much already do, but I am a sucker for that ~~~witchy~~~ aesthetic bullshit and sometimes that stuff is hard to find

>>10133703
Make your own goth clothes.

t. been a goth since the 90s (yep I'm old)

>>10133703
Yea, that's the exact kind of clothes I'm looking for too. If I had some capital I would try to make an eco-goth clothing company.

>>10133717
Do you have any tips as to good commercial patterns to start with? Or have you advanced to drafting your own?

>>10129674
you can't
imagine someone who's really, really into model trains, and you just aren't into that shit
now imagine this man sitting there really earnestly trying to explain the joy the tiny trains bring him, and how the price per model compared to say, a premium satellite package are about equal, and they're both means of entertainment, and everybody has hobbies blah blah blah
no1 curr
just buy what you want, fuck everyone else

>>10132936
I have some old af meta and a few dresses from some old (now closed) indie Japanese lolita style-brands and let me tell you, when the sun finally gives out and burns the solar system, it will be rocks, cockroaches, and these dresses peacfully floating through space

>>10132936
I have some old af meta and a few dresses from some old (now closed) indie Japanese lolita style-brands and let me tell you, when the sun finally gives out and burns the solar system, it will be rocks, cockroaches, and these dresses peacefully floating through space

Who on earth are you guys surrounding yourselves with? I've never had an issue come up with the cost of my lolita clothes. One of my friends has a very ladylike style. Her dresses are from Kate Spade, Ted Baker, Alice + Olivia, and regularly cost as much if not more than my dresses. I have another friend who could probably single handedly keep H&M in business. She was naturally surprised at the cost but never said anything negative, because she is a grown woman who understands that what someone else spends their money on is not her business. Some of my friends spend next to nothing on clothing. Their money goes into what's important to them, maybe something like art, a hobby, home decor. If someone is repeatedly telling you things like "spending that much on x is stupid" you need to drop them from your life. I promise you that'll be the first red flag and just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to other types of toxic behavior from them. You don't need to explain or justify shit.

most people don't respect the real cost or price of anything; people's labor is undervalued. it's why artists and musicians have issues getting paid properly, as do makeup artists, folks who do cosplay commissions, tailoring, etc. is there shit out there that's overpriced and not worth the money? yeah, there is, but lots of people believe anything expensive isn't worth the money no matter what, and don't understand that things can be nuanced. some things are overpriced, but plenty of items are worth their value either in quality, comfort, talent, or all three.

>>10133955
idk why this is such a nice and reassuring image.

>>10133459
Hmm idk, it was a casual talk with 3 of my superiors and they all agreed how well spent that money is. For a moment I thought „Wait? Is this a normal thing to do?“.
It’s not like it bothered me much later on. It amazed me how normal it was to them.