/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10110558
In the 1920s, there was also a "counter movement" to the flapper straight-sack look (google "One Hour Dress") if you want one) called the "robe de style" which seems like a more modern cousin to the 1830s look.

>>10110558
More the 1830s, Lolita is pretty firmly rooted in Rococo.

>>10110625
more than* sorry

There is absolutely a market for 1900’s and Victorian inspired fashion, but the amount of fabric means they’d be very expensive.
I’ve known for years part of egl’s success has been from the efficiency of materials used.

The 1830s were a wild time for fashion (speaking as a fashion historian) but I don’t see a ton of Lolita influence coming from it. I see 1770s-1780s, 1840s-1890s, 1940s-1960 more than anything. It’d be interesting to see if a corded petticoat would work for Lolita though, maybe as a more comfortable version of the hoop skirts that are popular right now.
I’d love to see a classic brand do an empire waisted dress inspired by the 1790s though.

>>10110558
Why is romantic fashion shunned by fashion historians?

>>10110647
Is it really shunned? I know it's not the most popular period but I haven't gotten the impression that it's ignored

Eww they're shoulders are showing. Not very lolita at all.

>>10110721
>>10110647
It’s not, it’s just not as popular for living history or people who just wear historic fashion because it’s.... kinda ugly, I guess. Recently I know a lot of “big name” historic costumers have made 1830s a little more popular right now. American Duchess has a whole series on the making of their 1830s Ensembles going on right now.

>>10110733

>>10110733
And they're all tea length, reee itas

>>10110647
1830s dresses look very awkward when you actually put them on a real person. When you look at the style plates from the time you might thing; "Oh, the artist is taking creative liberties" but then you see and... Oh...

>>10110785
Maybe because they see it as the next great challenge; looking elegant in an 1830s dress?

>>10110625
I agree that the textile prints and sleeve cuts are often Rococo, but in Lolita you aren't trying to get at stays look at the waist. Lolita has a more natural expectation for the waist shape and is more 1830s in how the volume of the dress is distributed more evenly around. Also, 1830s tries to stay above the ankle as a rule, which doesn't really show up again as a fashion ideal until the 1910s-1920s.

>>10110946
these images are cursed. they look like theyre made from that poofy jacket material.

>>10110785

Yeah I think part of the surge in popularity is because it's a technical challenge and an eye catching end result. It's not really pretty the way an Edwardian or late Victorian dress is, but it sure does stop someone scrolling on their social media.

>>10110946
that hair tho

Those sleeves always make me laugh, so poofy, so ridiculous.
Personally I like the 1850-60s fashion a lot more! It's not overdressed with bows but still gorgeous

I don't think any one decade has more of an influence on lolita fashion as a whole, some styles take more influence from certain decades than others. I'd say the late 1700s, the Regency era, the Victorian era, the Edwardian era, both the 50s and the prairie dress trend of the 70s all have influenced lolita in some day.

F Yeah Lolita has some nifty articles on victorian influence on lolita fashion
http://www.fyeahlolita.com/2011/01/victorian-lolita.html

I always felt lolita drew more inspiration from children's historical fashion than adult

>>10111216
wow this model looks like an autist.

>>10110558
Can you explain why they try to ignore it? Also, why is it called the "Unspeakable Era"?

>>10111261
Many of the western models brands use are derpy/autistic looking. It’s endearing desu.

>>10111261
What do you even mean by that?

>>10111269
Makes me think that they feel westerners are all retards. lol.

>>10111246
Oh maybe. Though children's fashion is just to mimic the adults', so it really comes full circle

>>10111303
maybe it's the skirt length, adults would wear floor length while children's dresses were at lengths we're familiar with

>>10111261
god you salty bitches ruin everything

>>10111294
She has a retard face.

>>10111246
I don't know how anybody can look at images like this and still scream "All lolita stems from visual kei and therefore it's cultural appropriation if you're not Azn like me!1!1"...

>>10111262
Nobody is ignoring it, it’s just kinda ugly so the most “pop” fashion historians rarely talk about it and the historical costuming community rarely ventures into it. Politics were generally pretty calm in the 1830s, too, so there’s no call for it to be a huge living history era either like the American Revolution. Not a ton of well-loved literature set in the period so it’s not like Jane Austen and the Regency. Most theatre/film costumers push 1830s pieces earlier into the late 1820s or further into the early 1840s. It just doesn’t look good on anybody.

>>10111246
I thought that was common knowledge

>>10111261
>>10111269
Since when is autism a physical disability you can see from the outside?

>>10111326
Yeah, once you were a certain age, ankle showing became a no-no (forgot when. I know you got a full hoop skirt at 13, but I don't think the length fully increased until 16?)
But children's fashion seems to always be in a similar style/design you adults', even now (tiny designer purses and clothes )

>>10111494
They had quite strict rules for how long the skirt was at what age, see chart

>>10111505
Oh good, I was right. It's been awhile since I learned about it, so I wasn't entirely sure. (Who would've guessed that reenactor training would come in handy for lolita lmao)

IS THIS RORI?

>>10110572
These are gorgeous! Not very lolita but I'm in love

>>10111880

>>10111881
Bless Jeanne Lanvin

>>10111261
If all female autists wore lolita, they'd at least look better.

>>10110946
These do, but I'm feeling the more toned down 1830's day dresses as classic inspo

>>10111887

>>10111890

>>10111891

>>10111884
Looks like a lot of them do. You just can't tell from their pics that the well dressed ones are autistic
>For some cringe: https://www.reddit.com/r/aspergirls/comments/asiffn/random_question_but_is_anyone_here_into/

>>10111716
Needs more Years and Years

simple, historically influenced classic coodinates are the best. OTT classic is a scourge upon the fashion

>>10111716
>ita threads, 1796

>>10110625
I don't know where everyone got this notion that Lolita is rooted in Rococo. Just because Novala Takemoto said it doesn't mean it's holy writ. If you look at any early snaps of the fashion there absolutely no correlation between lolita and rococo.
The influence came much later in classic brands, and only exploded in about 2011 when OTT classic emerged.

>>10111895
What's cringy about autistic people enjoying fashion? None of these sound very different from the average /cgl/ poster

>>10112086
If you look at early street snaps of the fashion there’s hardly any sweet, that doesn’t mean Sweet didn’t exist in the early days either. Are you garbage-chan? You think Novala pulled that out of this ass?

>>10112086
No, there has been some inspiration from the rococo era for a lot longer than that (since the mid 2000's at least). Hime-lolita was always very rococo inspired. Although, I will say that the rococo influence has become a lot stronger and more obvious in the 2010's, since nowadays it isn't uncommon to see lolita dresses that are basically just shorter versions of designs from that era.
>>10112166
What time period are you talking about that had very little sweet? There were a lot of streetsnaps of pink x white and blue x white coords, along with floral and fruit patterns, even as far back as the 90's. Even a lot of black x white coords were styled in a sweet way.

>>10112773
you're right, i was thinking solely of pink sweet but many early coords were sweet just in black/white. and there was still pink/white and white/blue coords. i shoudn't have said "barely" any sweet, that was wrong of me. there was sweet, it just wasn't as popular as darker styles.

the origjn is visual kei crossdressers in the 90s who were inspired by western victorian goth and 80s glam bands, gothic lolita was worn exclusively to music events by fans

people may have since taken inspiration from more historical looks, but the conception of lolita was from much more modern base-level stuff and was not well researched and put together cohesively in its early iterations. It was basically just a bunch of trashy concert obsessed teens trying to imitate their favorite bands.

>>10113036
>what is MILK
>what is Pink House
>what is natural-kei
>what is romanticizing western fashions and concepts of the 19th century and early 20 century
Please do your homework, you're embarrassing yourself.

>>10113036
no. lolita already existed when gothic lolita got popularized as vkei groupie fashion. idk where you guys think sweet and classic lolita came from if you think lolita was sprung from the mind of mana.

there also literally was an early lolita magazine called rococo!

>>10113036
Can you stop with this shitty ass bait already? You're not even a lolita.

>>10113036
Shut up, garbage-chan.

>>10113079
I'm not disagreeing that lolita didn't start as vkei groupie fashion, but Rococo ran its first issue in 2004, which is a good three years after Malice Mizer disbanded.

>>10113036
The word Lolita was first used for fashion by MILK in 1989 to describe their latest line of feminine dresses

>>10113164
but garbage-chan, who started this argument a week ago on rufflechat, insisted that rococo was never used to describe lolita fashion until novala used it when writing kamikaze girls. 2004 is still very much the old school era.

>>10110787
just because a brand puts its out doesnt mean its okay

>>10113185
I forgot cgl has more authority over what is and isn't lolita than the first lolita brand in existence

>>10113190
>Angelic Pretty
>First lolita brand in existence

>>10113172
This isn't garbage-chan, it's an ill informed crossdresser who wants to claim men invented gothic lolita.

>>10113172
Kamikaze Girls was published in 2002, which is still 2 years before Rococo. So Rococo magazine being published during the old school era doesn't disprove that claim either.

>>10111480
NAYRT, but I’m autistic and there is definitely a look. Wouldn’t say Model-San has that look, though. Google ‘autistic facial characteristics’ and the first thing that pops up is a study

>>10111480
It can be quite visible if you have a genetic syndrome that predisposes you to being autistic.

>>10114626
That wouldn't be autism then, there are different developmental disabilities that come with visible physical traits but autism isn't one of them