/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10099346

>>10099347

>>10099348

>>10099349

>>10099351

>>10100531

>>10099346
otome-kei is just boneless lolita

>>10100535
That's why you don't need to wear a petticoat with lolita and just wear quirky vintage stuff

>>10100557

>>10100558

>>10100560

>>10100563

>>10100567

>>10100568

>>10100570

>>10100573

>>10100576

>>10102444

the otome kei tag is full of so much crap nowadays

>>10102447

>>10099346
It's 2019 and people still think kei means fashion? If you say otome kei in Japan they'll assume you're trying to say you're a fujoshi and would probably rather you kept that to yourself.
Kei literally means type/system. Solar kei isn't a fashion about stars it's the solar system!

>>10104661
Omg it doesn't mean fashion? I totally thought so!!! wow THANK YOU. I have been saying lolita kei this entire time. How emberrassing.

>>10102447
Tbh there are barely any jfashion tags on IG and the like that aren't crap due to people tagging their posts as everything to archive more reach.

look at this adorable otome coord

oh wait..
>>10104732

>>10104793
Hot damn where can I get that jacket.

>>10104803
Is from a showa-inspired Taobao brand, they make a lot like that.
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a1z10.5-c-s.w4002-14441091664.55.46c1150ctaQmq8&id=580988472421

>>10104805
nothing abuot that jacket is showa though

>>10104825
nayrt
maybe they meant shoujo?

>>10104825
>>10104829
Not that anon, but I thought the art was showa era style

>>10104825
Sure it is, both the art style and the jacket are 80s inspired and the shōwa era ended in 1989

I think the "little oil stove" album was aimed at otome girls during the first boom in the 80s.

>>10104734
>thinking the titles KERA slaps on coordinates are accurate
>thinking anyone wouldn’t tear that coordinate to shreds if it was posted as a lolita coord

I have KERA scans that talk about “80s lolita”, doesn’t make it real

>>10104662
Lolita kei would basically mean lolicon. Think of kei as adding "one of those ___ types"
It works with visual kei because the bands are all about the visual and with fairy kei you're saying "fairy type" which doesn't have a weird slang meaning so it's basically fine.

>>10104922
>thinking I value the opinion of a gull more than a Japanese magazine
Nice try. Btw Japanese people do believe lolita started in the 80s with brands like Milk and Pretty.

>>10104953
Pretty sure that anon was being sarcastic

>>10104922
>thinking I value the opinion of a gull more than a Japanese magazine
Nice try. Btw lolita started in the 70s with brands like Milk and Pretty.

>>10105028
Have you seen how many people don't know the meaning? This thread title for example? Like none of these clothes are itabags? Or anything else fujoshi related.

>>10105029
lolitas have been saying that not everything in KERA or the GLB is lolita for years though lol sometimes they get it wrong too and that’s ok. and those brands existed in the 70s, but the stuff they made wasn’t lolita....

>>10105033
Sweetie just because it evolved doesn't mean the origins don't exist anymore. You can't just point at 1 day in time and say "this is when it became REAL lolita, everything before then was just a fake prototype".

>>10105033
I mean look at pic related. This was lolita in 1993. You wouldn't call it lolita now but that doesn't mean that in 1993 people didn't think it was lolita.

>>10105133
this is just taobao lolita

>>10105035
Don’t call me sweetie, and yes, there’s pre-lolita and there is lolita. that doesn’t mean it was a fake prototype, the fashion just took awhile to get to the point where the distinct lolita look was born.

anyway we aren’t talking about old lolita, we’re talking about a modern KERA scan

>>10105184
Japanese lolitas call it lolita, KERA calls it lolita, why do Westerners have to be special snowflakes and call it otome kei?

>>10105185
Nice bait.

>>10105187
????

>>10105200
>hurrdurr otome doesn't exist
>claims outfits like pic related are lolita
>not bait

>>10105225
We're talking about >>10104732 taobao-chan

>>10105231
And I hope you know >>10104732 was sarcastic in reference to the people that tag casual lolita coords at otome despite otome as fashion looks different.

>>10105231
And >>10104732 tries to imply otome and casual lolita are the same thing which is not the case.

>>10105236
Where does it say that

>>10105241
???
>>10104732
>>10104734
>not seeing how both were posted by the same person

>>10105244
The post doesn't say otome=casual lolita.

>>10105244
That person is making fun of people who think ETC is otome, nobody in this thread says otome doesn't exist besides that person acting anal about the meaning of kei

>>10105246
Then why do you complain about it in >>10105185 ? Because nothing in this thread is lolita.

>>1010525
>nobody in this thread says otome doesn't exist besides that person acting anal about the meaning of kei
That's two different people.

>>10105253
That post is about this >>10104734, which is lolita

>>10105257
And aside that post , where are people calling lolita outfits otome in here? Bingo, nowhere.

>>10105250
Does that mean ETC's pants are lolita?

>>10105263
No, nobody is making such claims retard. The entire discussion was literally just about that page.

>>10105264
And the Spoon magazine calls ETC mori, and?

>>10105265
What are you arguing?

>>10105266
>japanese lolitas call it lolita!!11!

>>10105268
Either I'm retarded or you are, because as far as I can see >>10104734 literally has LOLITA STYLE written on it. And you are arguing that Japanese people do not call it lolita?

>>10105269
You are arguing that ETC is lolita because of an outfit in Kera, meanwhile Spoon calls it mori, some other magazines called it further styles. You know a brand can produce multiple styles, right? If ETC is ~lolita~ then so is this.

>>10105274
>ETC is lolita
Nobody is arguing that

>>10105278
>>10105185
>Japanese lolitas call it lolita, KERA calls it lolita, why do Westerners have to be special snowflakes and call it otome kei?

>>10105284
''it'' being the coord that has LOLITA STYLE written next to it

>>10105286
Outside of that post, that was relevant how as nobody posted any lolita outfits in here?

>>10105286
Everyone in here took the post as >>10105250
>ETC=lolita
>ETC=/=otome

>>10105290
>Everyone
speak for yourself

>>10105286
Because Japanese people can never be wrong of course! Everything thing is lolita if they sag so! One single issue of KERA calls this lolita? Pack it up boys, the coordinate is definitely lolita despite lacking shape, decent shoes, proper coordination....

>>10105326
People have seen AP shop staff walk around without petticoat, does that mean they were suddenly not wearing lolita? You know the "rules" in the "handbook" were just made up by a handful of people on livejournal many years ago? You don't have to keep limiting your view of what is and isn't lolita like this.

>>10105327
If that outfit wasn’t in a magazine and worn by a cute thin Japanese girl it would be prime ita thread material.

>>10105334
I've never posted anyone in the ita thread. I don't even look at it, and I encourage anyone to wear lolita in their own unique way.

>>10105410

>>10105412

>>10105414

>>10105415

>>10105416

>>10105417

>>10105419

>>10105420

>>10105421

>>10105422

>>10105424

>>10105592

>>10105344
i guess this is lolita now if kera said so

>>10105653
kera called it lolita so its lolita now

>>10105653
At least you finally stopped posting taobao

>>10105751
I’m not even the person who posted taobao genius, my first post in this thread was just responding to your ridiculous assertion that if KERA calls it lolita it must be true

>>10105875
What would you call >>10104732?

>>10105883
Radical concept: it’s neither lolita or otome

>>10105883
Imo the only non-lolita thing about it is that she's not wearing an obvious petticoat. She's wearing a JSK, blouse, legwear, hair accessory and ribbon shoes

>>10105965
By that, all itas would be lolita too.

>>10106076
Yes... Being ita doesn't mean it's not lolita, it just means it doesn't look good

>>10106095
That’s not true. There’s a difference between a bad coordinate and someone who is an ita.

>>10106109
You spent too much time on cgl

>>10106076
>>10106109
If it's not lolita it can't be ita either. Ita literally means it's a lolita coord that "hurts" to look at.

>>10105180
I love these two outfits, the colors, the hats: everything's perfect!

>>10105415
>>10105416
>>10105417
I love this girl's style! Does she have an insta / blog?

>>10107687
She does but I forgot it

>>10104661
hashtags for otomekei show casing coord brands like ETC JM LG on Instagram has been around for quite a few years now., Take a look. Why does it even matter how we use 'kei', it's not as if anyone is going to run up to a Japanese local and announce they're wearing OTOME-KEI !!!!

baka. Actual otome fashion people are all on IG rocking their coords. Exiting this shit show thread of noobs.

>>10113652
These coords look more like how otome kei is described than those people wearing ETC with a petticoat and matching blouse.

>>10113652
When I started with otome, people warned me about not looking too lolita and too matchy, but now I see looking lolita but with an otome main-piece is the norm? At least on instagram. Maybe you can post some better coords?

Did tsu_ ever post her otome coords online?

I have just been using the #janemarple tag in IG to find outfit inspo. Japanese and Western users both use it, and JM is my favorite brand other than IW so it gets me what I want to see.

I just found a really fun legwear brand
http://einelilie.daa.jp/

>>10118093

>>10118094

>>10118105

>>10118106

is it me or has Jane Marple taken a turn towards being more of a normie fashion than a j-fashion?

>>10118441
It might just be me but I always got the vibe of most Jane marble stuff to be more normie than anything else.
The newer stuff especially

>>10118441
It's just you. The JM stuff posted in this thread are from dans le salon.

>>10105179
I love this. to me this is otome at its best. Effortless looking pattern mixing, and it works!

>>10104953
wow, a wild dumb ass

>>10105225
That's natural kei

>>10099346
>>10099347
Where are these images from? I love them

>>10099348
One of my biggest regrets is that I have the wrong coloring to pull off this otome yellow/mustard color

>>10105039
What’s interesting is that a few of these dresses do pass or come close as modern Lolita to me. I love seeing these old magazine spreads

>>10105179
>>10105180
This makes me want to add more striped long sleeve tops to my wardrobe

>>10113652
It’s sad, because there was a period maybe two or three (?) years ago where the otome threads here were surprisingly great. Lots of discussion about fashion history, rare pics being posted, and much less sperging about whether or not otome is “real” or what to call it. Bummer.

>>10125652
an old otome scrapbook from an ''olive girl''

>>10125677
I think we could have kept those threads if people had changed the name from otome kei general to something else, since that was what most of the sperging was about. Then again, a lot of regular threads disappeared from cgl in the past couple of years, not just otome threads. Tbh I started to lose interest in otome threads anyway, because the coords people posted started to look more and more like sweet lolita with a splash of colour.

>>10125705
I love them so much, they just have the best feel. Thanks for posting those anon

Benny Desire on taobao

i feel like taobao brands are breathing new life into otome

>>10127006

>>10127008
these are all from Crucis btw

Otome threads died around the same time as Larme threads so I think it had nothing to do with any discussions. People just jumped on it because it was something new to them, but it didn't become as popular as lolita, so they quit. Same with Larme. The people who were often posted in the otome thread now tag those same type of coords as casual lolita, daily lolita, soft lolita etc. so I think they never really loved otome.

>>10128191
>Otome threads died around the same time as Larme threads
>implying Larme is that new
Newfag, otome was even a thing before /cgl/ was an own board.

>>10128191
>The people who were often posted in the otome thread now tag those same type of coords as casual lolita, daily lolita, soft lolita etc. so I think they never really loved otome.
Has nothing to do with not loving otome rather than it being those idiots that post casual lolita as otome ignoring the fact that otome isn't just lolita without a petti.

>>10128280
>Implying otome threads existed before cgl
Look, I can also mis-read comments

>>10128280
And to add, comparing otome to larme is kind of stupid considering that egl already had otome discussions way before /cgl/ was even an own board, it's not "new".

>>10128281
>what is forums

>>10128280
What is your point? The lolitas who jumped on the otome kei bandwagon still wore petticoats, they just wore lolita coords with more colour and a JM/ETC/LG main-piece and thought it was otome kei, and then those coords were posted in otome kei threads.

>>10128283
My comment was about otome kei threads since people were discussing that earlier

>>10128191
>>10128280

I could totally see this. While the otome threads were happening you'd frequently get girls on both sides, one side was trying to get "notome" happening, and the other side was busy screaming "it's otome, it's not ita!1!! stop posting otome in the ita threads!!1!"

So at the very least a vocal chunk of girls were using "otome" as an excuse to do lolita badly, they probably wanted to do lolita without da rules all along and simply hopped into otome because it looked similar to what they wanted to do, then probably hopped over to casual/soft lolita as soon as Misako brought up that idea.

I don't know about Larme though. That one seemed to slowly flicker out sometime after the board started lamenting the aesthetics didn't really have a cohesive ideal and was simply whatever was in the Larme magazine, I think? At one point half the thread consisted of that while the threads slowly got bumped with less and less content.

>>10128361
I really don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Even in early otome threads on egl it mostly attracted older girls, who liked ETC and JM. The special snowflake ita type definitely weren’t the majority of the girls involved in otome.

Larme threads died because it just isn’t a style that warrants a lot of discussion. It’s a general aesthetic or theme, not a fashion with a clear city silouhette like lolita. And larme aesthetics were trendy in western fashion for awhile, which made it accessible. Once that passed, the fad died down.

>>10130290

It's not the early threads. It's when the threads were active. Maybe you missed it if you were here early on, left at some point and came back later.

>>10128361
>they probably wanted to do lolita without da rules all along and simply hopped into otome because it looked similar to what they wanted to do, then probably hopped over to casual/soft lolita as soon as Misako brought up that idea

This definitely happened. There were a series of clusterfuck threads where it was nothing but people arguing over calling it otome, soft lolita, “girly style” and some other names.

>>10130280
where do i get this sweater

>>10130280
oh my god where is this from

>>10100558
Otome does exist, but it's only a term used in the west. In a western context, most lolitas would know what otome is. Just don't use it in japan. Obviously we would create a different label to make the divide more clear and so people don't just break the rules. Western lolitas are much more adamant about what is/isn't lolita and the silhouette, they don't want some random noob in a casual JM dress calling it lolita and posting it to COF. Westerners are likely more adamant about rules because a lot of japanese styles become bastardized when coming overseas (yumekawaii and menhera in the west is WAY different than what they started as in Japan).
I think it's necessary to call Otome something different in the west because of that. Westerners are more strict because they fear their fashion becoming bastardized and becoming something it's not supposed to be. If we are too inclusive, then anything can be lolita, and if everythings lolita, nothings lolita.
That being said, I think Otome, as a western created style, also got bastardized a lot. There's not a lot of people enforcing rules. Often I'll see really ita coordinates get called “Otome” to deflect crit. It's a style with rules, but those rules aren't really set. I remember that one girl who posted a completely non lolita outfit, asking if anyone else doesn't wear petticoats sometimes, and many lolitas just replied, “It's not lolita, it's otome!”
Due to this mindset the otome tag is pretty crappy, but yeah. All I'm saying is I don't want to see this >>10100558 on COF anytime soon

>>10130627
oops didn't mean to reply to that pic, sorry

>>10130290
We aren't talking about early egl days

>>10130627
People already posted a bunch of proof in this thread, in the previous thread, and in the Olive thread that otome does exist in Japan too. It just doesn't look like the casual lolita look that Western girls seem to prefer.

>>10099346
>>Vintage/Showa influenced
>>Combines patterns, prints and bold colours
Imo these are key elements that a lot of Western girls forget/ignore. That's why they get criticised for looking too much like (casual) lolita.

>>10130650
And it's not like lolita can't look colourful, so the other elements are even more important to make something more otome than casual lolita.

>>10130544

Oh man, I scrubbed those from my memory. Between the arguing if otome exists and arguing what is soft lolita vs girly style vs otome vs casual lolita there were some really annoying threads that really didn't go anywhere.

>>10130730

>mfw my textbook classic coordinate got posted to the soft lolita thread along with a bunch of other basic classic coordinates

Dumb seagulls ruffle my feathers. Don't remind me of those days.

>>10130735
2 of my casual and sweet lolita coords were posted to the otome kei thread too lol