/cgl/ - Cosplay & EGL

>>10085254

>>10085256

>>10085258

>>10085254
I think punk lolita at that time was more popular because lolitas listened to punk music, rock, visual kei, metal etc.
Now they listen to kpoop.

>>10085259

>>10085262

>>10085264
Alright, mini dump over

>>10085260
I can see that being a major influence but so many people in this community still listen to punk and rock so I'm not sold on that being a determining factor

>>10085265

>>10085264
she's one of my favorite people

>>10085290
This one is so damn iconic

>>10085292

>>10085295

>>10085297

>>10085299

>>10085300

>>10085295
Sauce on dress?

>>10085254
>With the old school resurgence do you think we will see more punk coords?
Maybe. Punk has always been up there with Ero in terms of being tough to pull off, due to both substyles having huge conflicts with the foundational lolita aethstetic. I can see some people giving it a go, but at least 8/10 will crash and burn.

>Where is the line drawn before ita trash and punk gold?
If you can find a way to reconcile the softness of lolita with the hardness of punk you've got a good start. A lot of punk coords look fucky because they lean too hard into one and the other gets lost. >>10085258 is a good example of the punk aspect getting lost in the lolita aethstetic, and >>10085259 is a good example of the lolita aspect getting lost in the punk aethstetic.

>>10085262 and >>10085265 ride the line of too much punk but come out on top because they still have the basic lolita aesthetic, though a more punk version of it.

Which one of you bought the mercari patchwork h.Anarchy jacket I've been watching like a hawk?

>>10085258
this is so cool

>>10085260
honestly i can't stand kpop. i still listen to visual kei, rock, and grunge ALL the time

i've talked to lolitas who don't know who mana is. it's really... disappointing. i feel like the subculture aspect of lolita is kind of on its last leg, if not dead.

>>10085354
I feel like the subculture of Lolita and Punk have both been lost to history books. The aesthetic lives on but that is really it.

>>10085354
desu sometimes I wish lolitas cared about vkei bands other than malice, m10m and versailles then i remember most of them dont even care about those anymore and I get sad because they're missing out on so much good music & an important part of the subculture. I'm not saying you're not a lolita if you don't like visual kei but I wish people would at least acknowledge the influence both subculture and lifestyle wise and looks wise it had on lolita

mini nana kitade dump incoming to make up for ot rant

>>10085424

>>10085426

>>10085428

>>10085429

>>10085428
Ugh, everything about this is so perfect

>>10085316
I appreciate the detailed response anon! You really stated the line well. I think the Lolita aspects often get lost amongst the punk glory. It is hard to tip toe the blurry line between the aesthetics. On one hand I would love to see more but you're probably right that most would be a dumpster fire.

>>10085312
I don't know the name but it is Algonquins brand

>>10085258
>Things that are not punk

Not all tartan can be worn with punk. Tartan is not shorthand for punk. This dress isn't working. One studded belt does also not a punk make

>>10085540
Posted items new and old tagged as punk lolita as reference point for convo and discussion as to what works and what doesn't.

>>10085428
I NEED that plaid skirt. Anyone have sauce???

>>10085532
Thank you friendo!

>>10085297
Everyone in that pic looks like they’re judging her

>>10085430

>>10085885

>>10085887

>>10085891

>>10085892

>>10085540
I think it works because in Japan, punk is much cuter for girls

>>10085893

>>10086197

>>10085279
I loooove the tshirt over the blouse look

>>10085424
Unfortunately, vkei is dying right now. It's kind of sad because that's what got me into lolita in the firsf place.

>>10086197
this is bordering ita

>>10085332
Sorry, if it doesn't fit me, I'll post here in case you'd like to buy it off me. I'm kinda worried since my measurements area bit off.

>>10086200
This is punky, but I wouldn't call it lolita at all. Plenty of western goth girls wear similar outfits all the time and it's not lolita then either.

>>10085424
>>10085354
>>10085385

I'm pretty sure this is happening because new lolitas aren't introduced through the vkei subculture, but by encountering the style itself either online or at anime cons. That was how I first encountered the style, back in 2013. I'd even go so far as to claim that that's why western lolita subculture is exclusively about the fashion, because by now it's the only common factor that connects all of us.

I'd say it's why we're so protective of it, but I think that's more the fault of outsiders misconstruing what the fashion is about than anything. Sex pervs trying to elbow their way in, ita weebs doing ita weeb shit, the mainstream media slapping "Lolita" on anyone with a larger than average amount of frill on their person, and normies who are generally confused and possiblt a little frightened by the whole thing. It's not a surprise the community gets a little defensive.

>>10085256

>>10086432
>that's why western lolita subculture is exclusively about the fashion
That's also because in the earlier days of EGL there was a trend of anti-lifestyle "NoT All LoLiTaS ArE lOvLiEs"... attitude, I suppose I can call it? People were pushing back against the misconception that lolitas must be lovelies uwu and went the full extreme in the other direction. You would think that this would've brought us back to the Vkei roots but it mostly centered around people acting like goblins in lolita for funsies while aggressively claiming that "it's just clothes", the latter of which unfortunately stuck to this day.

>>10085424
I genuinely love lolita as a fashion and the quality aspects, but it's so goddamn stale and shallow if you're sweet or classic. In terms of heart, the fashion has flatlined. I really miss VW and the punk, rebellion, and musical aspects.

>>10087001
Let's be really specific when we talk about this stupid backlash. It was one girl named Skye into sort of sweet/classic that had a large following that tried to push some princess lifestyle into lolita.

If we're looking at actual lolita lifestyle, from Japan, it's nothing like that. Early egl/Western lolitas rejecting "lifestyle" thinking it meant whatever Skye was preaching uprooted the Western fashion very badly and it's never properly returned to it's "lifestyle" roots since. The damage is so bad and I still see people say "no lifestylers, no luvlies!" as if we're talking about Skye's lifestyle, a lolita who is long gone. The only real lifestyle roots to lolita have always been things like Vivienne Westwood, punk, Mana, etc.

Chinese lolitas would end up mimicing the shallow aspects, since they had us and Japan to go off of, making it somehow that much more about consumerism and showing off. I think they've done the most severe damage making it about feurdai and how they can outdo other poor Chinese lolitas. Things like JetJ are just status symbols to them not because of it's history, but because it's expensive. They're the ones buying the completely impractical $1,000 plus dollar pieces from brands just to one-up each other, over and over.

Also, notice Chinese lolitas are the most deeply apathetic over old school and any origins to lolita. Seems to be a uniquely Western phenomenon because we at least do care about preserving some of the origins and history.

>>10085279
Does anyone know her name or any of her social media? (If she has any) I'd looove to followe her as a fellow Sabaton fan

>>10085300
iconic

>>10085254
Anyone have any more of girls with generally sweet wardrobes do punk lolita?

>>10085892
>>10086197
>>10086200
definitely not good examples unfortunately

>>10086368
Wow I didn't expect to get an actual reply. If we're talking about the same 10 yo jacket in perfect condition, you have A+ taste and I'm glad at least a gull got it! I hope you'll be able to enjoy it fully but if you do decide to sell it, I'd offer a higher price than the original listing.

Pretty sure this is mintkismet/phenphenny before she made herself over into a sweet lolita...

Fresh punk dump

> Ranting incoming
I'm into sweet personally, but I have fond memories of punk lolita because it's what my sister was into. Modern punk just doesn't feel "punk" anymore. Like earlier in the thread, punk has just become tartan+black and maybe studs or spikes. There's a sort of punk attitude that is just gone from lolita, whether it be because lolita fashion is just about looks nowadays (in comparison, minimalist fashion usually incorporates transparency in clothing manufacturing, and most minimalists are marie kondo enthusiasts) or because lolita dresses are now a status symbol, with people wanting the newest AP release just because it's the newest thing. I don't think I'll see anyone in lolita going off the walls to dress punk and yell at the government, but modern punk lolita feels a lot more like pic related: more refined in the details, a mixture of gothic and ero, and less about tartan and more about breaking lolita "rules". Dismiss this rant from the crazy old lolita, but it'd be nice to see someone fresh in the punk grounds instead of imitations of old outfits.

punk lolita has stayed dead because Punk itself died
Not sure why it's so surprising

>>10103067

>>10103069

>>10103043
Punks not dead

>>10085299
I will forever love this coord

>>10087016
Always interesting reading western people parrot what they hear on here based on anecdotal evidence of rich Chinese girls rather than experience.

>>10107235

>>10107237

>>10107238

>>10085260
Big mood
also gothic lolitas used to listen to metal and I miss that too

>>10105884
Then come up with something more relevant since you obviously know more about the rich Chinese girls than us?

Oh wait, you don't.

>>10107253
All the gothic lolitas I follow still listen to oldschool jrock, vk, and goth rock, and will often post pictures of them at goth bars or concerts, and it's such a breath of fresh air. It just seems like most people that got into goth before the resurgence last year were goth before they were lolita, whereas the newer ones are like what >>10086432 and >>10100309 said above.

Let me tell you- there's nothing so jarring as mentioning going to some goth or punk concert/bar in lolita, and having a friend show up in fashion show lolita while you've thrown on a vest and docs with your coord.

>>10085279
Who is this? This is a great outfit.

This thread and general discussion got me thinking, when did Lolita get so snobby?
I've been in the fashion for years and I've never really questioned the fact that many meetup are expensive and most efamous lolitas are generic sweet lolitas with big expensive wardrobes instead of those with very inventive styles (with some exceptions ofc), or just cosplayer who wear lolita for photos and cons.
Where did the fashion move over from people meeting to hang out in town and dingy dives to fancy tea parties and events with 100€+ price tags?

>>10107425
Sorry, English is not my first language so snobby might be the wrong meaning here. Exclusive, maybe?

>>10087016
>>10087001
Honest question, were any of you two around in that time you're talking about? Where tf do you get those impressions from?

>>10087016
>Also, notice Chinese lolitas are the most deeply apathetic over old school and any origins to lolita.
Source? Weibo is full of old school and they even started tagging it in their sales.

>>10107425
It became this way when girls stopped wearing it on the street and prioritized and popularized OTT looks for events and nothing else. The funny thing is that girls sometimes still do call it a street fashion, while actively not wearing it on the street anymore. That's not to say that no one does, obviously daily lolitas still exist, but we seem to be nowhere near as popular/vocal/visible in comparison.

>>10107262
I'm Chinese, I think I know more about Chinese lolitas than you do based on a couple unsourced claims on 4chan. You shouldn't believe everything you read on the internet.

>>10107425
>when did lolita get so snobby? Where did the fashion move over from people meeting to hang out in town and dingy dives to fancy tea parties and events with 100€+ price tags?
It always has been snobby/exclusive, just on different levels (sneering at the Hot Topic lolita vs expensive meetups). Now we have more social media and there's a pressure to post your best life and have more nice things, of course you are going to see the fancy meets more than say, going to a free museum or hanging out at a tea shop. Also, a lot of people who got into lolita 5-10 years ago now have jobs and want to have nice things so organise fancier events. Doesn't mean that people can't just hang out in town, but most people would only post that to their instagram stories or not even think it worth posting unless there was a biggish group going.

>most efamous lolitas are generic sweet lolitas with big expensive wardrobes instead of those with very inventive styles (with some exceptions ofc), or just cosplayer who wear lolita for photos and cons
Because people like that sort of thing on their feeds? Inventive isn't for everyone, cookie cutter sweet is escapist and accessible, and more obviously different and eye-catching than goth.

>>10085262
This is just so lazy. It's just everyday punk clothes with a random skirt added with nothing to tie the look together at all.

>>10085295
This belongs in the ita thread.

>>10107480
Chinese-American isn’t the same as being a mainlander and being immersed in the actual happenings there.

I’m Chinese too and go back home every single summer. What >>10087016
Says is true about it. You sound ridiculous.

>>10109902
Nayrt but are you involved with the chinese lolita community? What makes you think it's more shallow than ours?