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6234303 No.6234303 [Reply] [Original]

How do none of you fucking retards still not know how taxation works after all this time? You have time to shill your shitcoins 24/7 but not time to research tax law?
Getting pretty fucking tired of seeing these tax threads every single day, and nobody there understands anything.

I'm going to clear it up for you once more, and this is information compiled based on months of research and contacting tax lawyers all over Europe and Asia, and
I'm giving it out there totally for free. So you better read every single word. Also read this thread later
>>5648250

>> No.6234349

First of all let's start by defining the difference between the investor and the trader, since none of you seem to grasp this simple concept. To make it even easier
for you, I will give you real life scenario examples:

>The Investor or the Holder
Bob buys 10 BTC on 10.1 He then trades 5 of these BTC for Doge on the 15.4. He also buys 50 ETH with Fiat on the same date. Then, 3 or 6 months later, maybe even
a year later Bob sells all of his coins netting a huge profit. He did not actively manage his investments, he probably also has a normal wagecuck job, and it was
clearly not his full time job, nor was it his intention to speculate.
This is now a clear situation where he got a capital gain and thus is liable to pay a capital gains tax on this profit, if his country of residence taxes capital gains.

General Rule - The holder will always pay the (if existing) capital gains tax on crypto UNLESS it is specifically stated by the tax authority that crypto falls under
some kind of exemption or other tax rate.

>> No.6234403

>>6234349
>The Trader (most of you reading this)
This is the chad who is not satisfied with slow and steady gains, fuck that! We are here to become multimillionaires in 3 months. 1000x or nothing.
The trader is highly likely a NEET, meaning he is no wagecuck because he focuses 100% of his time on making gains. Or if he has a job, at least he makes literally
several months wage in 1 day when trading. Most of his income comes from crypto. He buys BTC and ETH, which he then trades for shitcoins back and forth chasing
the pumps buying high and selling low. This happens, if not every day, at least once or several times a week. He has accounts on binance, bittrex, gdax, kucoin,
kraken etc etc. Maybe he is also a highly sofisticated trader, hedging risk by going into USDT or Shorting with leverage when the market seems overextended.
It is clear this guy spends considerable energy managing his active investments. You could almost say he is "working" for his money (let's be real here - all those
sleepless nights, alarms going off in the middle of the night, researching coins, shilling on biz etc. is fucking hard stressful work)
The trader makes an absolute killing, much better gains than the faggot holder (or at least this is what he tells himself), but what about taxes?

General Rule - The trader will in most cases pay income tax, or a speculation tax higher than the normal CGT on this gain. Some countries call it the "good housefather
rule" others just tax it as plain income. You should assume that it will be taxed as income (at least if your gain is 6 figures +) UNLESS the tax authority specifically
states that all crypto, no matter how or why it is bought or traded, WILL be taxed as a capital gain!

>> No.6234461

>>6234403
You see, it doesn't matter WHAT it is you trade. It can be forex, stocks, derivatives, crypto, even fucking digital cats - as long as you actively manage your
investments and you exert a considerable effort doing so, and/or you derive most of your yearly income from this activity - most countries consider this your "job"
and you will pay income tax on it. You might even have to pay social security contributions etc.

To give an example of 2 countries with different treatment considering crypto:

>Denmark
Crypto is totally tax free if you bought it "because you were interested in the technology, or because you wanted to use it as payment"
However, if you use it for speculation in order to make a profit, it is taxed.

>Belarus
It doesn't matter if you are a holder or if you make trillions of trades per minute - It is still tax free in every scenario.

If you are really interested in international taxation - read this thread
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/best-country-for-trading-tax-efficiency.189932/page-34
it is the single best source of information about this that I have found online. Pay special attention to the poster "dw31583"
This guy is a professional trader, making 8 figures a year and he really knows what he is talking about. You can ignore the rest of the idiots in that thread

>> No.6234510

>>6234461
Now let's move on to some of the more common "tax free countries" mentioned on biz.

>Netherlands
Yes if you are an investor you can actually pay only about 2% tax on your entire crypto portfolio every year, by putting the value in box 3.
However, there is absolutely no reason to believe that this would be the case for a trader. In fact, this dutch tax advisory firm actually discusses this
https://www.grantthornton.nl/en/insights-en/articles/bitcoin-hits-10000-dollar-what-about-cryptocurrency-and-taxes/
and I quote
>For personal income taxes cryptocurrency are considered assets and are to be declared in box 3 of the personal income tax as such, which is the box for income from savings and investments. This means you have to take its value on January 1st of the year and declare this value.
BUT
>An interesting question would be how cryptocurrencies would be taxed in the personal income tax in case someone actively trades in cryptocurrencies. The tax-authorities could say that this goes beyond passive management of funds, meaning your profits would be taxed in box 1 instead of box 3. The facts and circumstances of a situation would be of great importance in such cases.
AND
>Considering cryptocurrencies are still relatively new, its fiscal treatment is far from fully established. Currently, some clarification has been given, but it seems almost certain more legislation and jurisprudence will follow.
As you can see, it is far from a sure thing

>Italy
Some Italians claim you can cash out about 50k €tax free every week. Well, AFAIK there is NO official source on this, just some guys opinion.
There had been some guidance regarding crypto on the tax authorities website earlier, but it has since been removed. Meaning they are probably about to change it.
Italy is not exactly known for its tax friendliness.

>> No.6234576

>>6234510
>Slovenia
I have not talked to a Slovenian tax advisor, and all the information online is in Slovenian. From reading
Slovenian forums you get differing opinions. Some say it can be tax free, and some say it depends on the circumstances. One person also said, if you can't prove
the source of the funds to the tax authoritys satisfaction, you will be taxed at 70%.
Some Slovenes on biz say what I also think, that it will be taxed as income if you are trading.
Anyway, looking at the personal tax rates for Slovenia (25% CGT and top rate 50% on Income) it does not look promising and will likely change soon.
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-sloveniahighlights-2017.pdf

TO ALL YOU DUTCH, ITALIANS & SLOVENES who will come here and say
>hurr durr you don't know shit it is tax free my friend cashed out 2k and no one has asked him for tax yet
Either show definitive legally binding proof (e.g. tax authority and NOT coindesk, bitcoin.com, your friend, reddit etc) that crypto (BOTH TRADING AND HOLDING) is tax free or GTFO
if you don't have any proof don't comment until you have. If you write to your tax authority and get a binding answer about 2018 please post it on biz and I will personally send you $500 worth of monero

TO BE PERFECTLY CLEAR - The only countries that you can be certain are tax free are those that have 0 taxes on anything OR have said all crypto is tax free (also trading)
These are currently
- UAE
- Monaco
- Bahamas
- Bermuda
- Saudi-Arabia
- Qatar
- Cayman Islands
- St Kitts & Nevis
- Many more Caribbean Islands
- Belarus (crypto)
- Possibly Ukraine soon (crypto)

>> No.6234633

>>6234576
Even if some countries have been slow to implement any regulation regarding crypto tax, or have put up something about being tax free in like 2013, you can be
absolutely sure that this will change tax year 2018. More millionaires and billionaires have been made in 2017 than almost any year before. If you believe the
governments are going to just let crypto be because they don't care or because they are good guys, then you are mistaken. Most western governments are bankrupt and
they are just salivating at the thought of stealing all your hard earned money because "muh roads, healthcare and refugees". Not to mention, crypto is really not
that hard to track at all. They have access to your bank accounts and transactions, and to most fiat gateways for crypto at the moment. And everything on the blockchain
is permanent.

Obviously fuck them and you should move - go where you are treated the best.

Try your absolute best to get residency in any of the tax-free countries mentioned above.

If you cannot do this, the next best alternative is a country with LOW TAXES ON EVERYTHING
Why?
Well let me give you this analogy, two alternatives

1. You can flip a coin - if heads you get 1 million, if tails you get 500k
or
2. No coin flip - you receive 900k guaranteed

What will you choose? Most rational persons would go with the guaranteed 900k

What I mean is - choosing any of those "maybe possibly gray area tax free if the perfect conditions are there" countries is like a coin flip. Maybe you will get it
tax free, maybe you will lose half to income taxes.
Choosing a low tax country means you get to keep most of your money guaranteed!
Which brings me to my recommendation...

>> No.6234704
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6234704

>>6234633
I believe the best place for the crypto trader who does not want to invest 150k+ in residency, and trades in his own name, is Bulgaria

You can invest, trade millions of times every day or do whatever the fuck you want with your crypto and the result is exactly the same - you pay a flat 10% tax
on the NET TOTAL PROFIT at the end of the year. Every single thing in this country is taxed at 10% THIS IS GUARANTEED!
https://www.ruskov-law.eu/bulgaria/article/legal-tax-treatment-bitcoin.html
https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-bulgariahighlights-2018.pdf
https://www.coindesk.com/bulgarian-bitcoin-tax-guidance-may-leave-money-laundering-loophole/
https://99bitcoins.com/bulgaria-national-revenue-agency-announces-tax-bitcoin/
they also own quite a lot of btc themselves
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-08/bulgaria-government-shocked-discover-it-owns-3-billion-bitcoin

What else?
- It is cheap as fuck, the average salary is under $600. Any decent crypto trader can live a good life there
If you want to live in sunny beach, you can buy a studio for 10k
http://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Studios_in_Bulgaria/AD64421BG_Studio_for_sale_near_Sunny_Beach.html

- Very easy to get tax residence there for almost no cost
- The girls are hot, not fat and have traditional values. Both pics in this thread are Bulgarian girls
- You can fuck hookers for under $30/hour (1 BGN = 0.6 USD). Most of them will do anal, facials, threesomes etc. Look for yourself.
http://en.topescort.bg/?order_by=price-asc

- Good food
- Like 98% white. No niggers, arabs, rapefugees etc.

>> No.6234761

>>6234704
IF you use a company to trade, another interesting country could be Estonia
>doesn't levy corporate income tax instead you have to pay a flat 20% tax when you distribute the profits from your company. So you can legally earn tax-free profits with your local company and you can accumulate tax-free profits and you can retain your profits in your company as long as you want. You have to pay the 20% tax only on the money you pay to yourself as dividends for instance.

TL;DR - Just fucking read it asshole, took me over an hour to write

Tips appreciated (XMR)
45Dm6bA4Nz6Q9Lvy3Mc3NvBMPgo64mWMCLi731A8RLw9RRd3LjmgrRTCcZjZDDE6qaGMWYhwS6ifpVswCGnnbwBdUscMGgB

>> No.6234975

>>6234303
This girl is not asian

>> No.6235110

>>6234303
thnks for the info

>> No.6235215

>>6235110
bump

>> No.6235309
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6235309

>>6234633
Chek'd
>Deciding not to flip the coin
You'll never make it anon

>> No.6235343

>>6234303
Depeding on country, how should they know that you changed FIAT->ETH->SHITCOINS
and when you use the same way again SHITCOINS->ETH->FIAT

For tax I could simply claim it was just two transactions. Most of the countries don't have the resources to follow all transactions and I wouldn't tell them the the wallet.

>> No.6235468

>>6235343
If they audit you for money laundering you would obviously have to prove how you bought only 1 btc but cashed out 15btc

>> No.6235548

>>6235468
or eth...

>> No.6235602

You motherfuckers are more interested in bitching than researching IoM and BVI.

If you have to ask you're a nigger and i won't respond. Grow the fuck up. You wanna be a grown up then start learning how the grown ups do it.

>> No.6235693

>>6235602
What about them?

>> No.6235717

>>6235468
Thx, this makes actually sense.
How in the world can you daytrade on shitcoins<->BTC without keeping a digital ledger with current worth in fiat? Just putting together an excel seems cumbersome.

>> No.6235746

>>6234303
nice work OP, i will be cleaning this up and putting it on my blog, i would tip you but i am
a poorfag, in return i will leave your donate address at the end and will credit it to Rp9Myvc4, many thanks.

>> No.6235780

Especially when doing this cross exchanges because not every has every shitcoin on it.

>> No.6235817

>>6235717
I think all exchanges will give you your full trading history so you can download it.

>> No.6235901

>>6235746
That's cool anon, hope you make it big in crypto!

>> No.6235953

>>6235901
you write a crypto blog?

>> No.6236061

ctrl+f Belgium, no clear laws, nobody seems to know.. guess i'll find out when i cash out

>> No.6236210

>>6236061
A guy from belgium told me there would be a speculation tax, but not sure.
Please write on biz if you find out

>> No.6236243
File: 150 KB, 451x352, 445F7C01-1956-4532-9CF5-4096F515CFF4.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6236243

>>6234303
What’s the best option for someone who held for more than a year before the new tax bill in the US, but can’t leave because they are part of the gov?

>> No.6236402

>>6236243
For US anons, I think the only options are:
- Become bona fide resident in Puerto Rico
- Renounce US citizenship and move

maybe
- set up complicated offshore structure and trade through that? e.g. trust + foundation + IBC
that is something that you have to check with a lawyer

>> No.6236471

>>6236210
Yea, a student traded with bots and it got taken to court and he had to pay 33% tax cause it's speculation and profit driven and normal stock is not or some bullshit. So i'm not sure if holding/limited trades is untaxed like germany (1y hold). Trading could also be taxed as income tax if they deem it to be more then a 'hobby' it's all extremely vague.

>> No.6236564

>>6236471
That's really interesting, any news articles on that?
thanks for the info

>> No.6236635

>>6236402
Fugg. I *really* can’t renounce citizenship, is there anything that’s still legal that’s still based domestically? Could cost a little more, but as long as I don’t look like a spy to the government then it should be good.

>> No.6236754

>>6236564
https://www.hln.be/geld/speculeren-met-bitcoins-zet-dan-al-maar-33-procent-opzij-voor-de-fiscus~aa8441ad/

It's in dutch though, the link is the official tax article about the law. It also only mentions bitcoin so not sure if it applies to other cryptos

>> No.6236839

In Germany its one year hold. But if you change to ETH->shitcoins and back, and making money during that 1yr period, its like normal income. I know daytraders who moves their accounts to China because of this and do some grey areay things to claim this is income by rent. Otherwise it would be like 42% taxes there.

>> No.6236849

>>6236635
Uh sorry I don't know of anything that would be both legal and based in the US. Maybe someone else who reads this thread knows

>> No.6236913

>>6236839
yeah know about the tax free hold rule
could you explain the process of moving accounts to China if you know anything about it?

>> No.6236916

>>6236754
google translate is readable and accurate

>> No.6236973

>>6236635
The only thing I could think of is getting an trade account, swap money to foreign fiat. Then do Renmimbi->Crypto and continue do so. But usually that entails that the money can't be repatriated. Need to fly over, get cash, turn it into a expensive watch, come back sell the watch on ebay, claim was a present from dead grandpa. Its hard to escape these things.

>> No.6236983

>>6236916
thanks I'll read it now

>> No.6237057

>>6236973
Yeah using CNY could work as you said, but yeah would be a massive pain in the ass cashing out.

>> No.6237063

>>6236849
Thanks anyway anon, I’ll try and check in about the other one.

>> No.6237073

>>6235953
yeah, i don't trade don't have the money for that,
but so many people were asking how to start on
here, i wrote a newbie blog on getting started and a
list of terminology explained.

>> No.6237097

>>6236913
They closed all their local EU accounts and went with one of those in Shanghai and Hongkong. Back then you could do that just like this, now its more complicated (AFAIK) You find some company you can co-invest in, then you are allowed to trade there. And as I understand they buy local houses/flats there and then take in the rent. Without a financial deal between EU/CN its 27% on this. Instead of 42%. But that whole setup only makes only sense if you trade in the millions like they do.

>> No.6237163

>>6237057
My friend lived for 6month in Hongkong, every 1. of month some westerners stood up to the ATMs and got like serious money. Had even security accompany them to the department sky scraper with all that cash. If you live in high tax countries, maybe doing that saves a mil or two/10yrs. then its worth it.

>> No.6237278

>>6237073
that's too bad, hope at least some guys reading your blog will give you donations. You could try doing some paid personalized advice or patreon or something like that?

>>6237097
I see, well that would be a nice problem to have anyway hah

>> No.6237322

>>6237163
Can they then deposit the cash or do they buy something with it?

>> No.6237398

We don't Pump and Dump. We Pump and HODL,'"

https://discord dot gg/hTTEEt2

>> No.6237553

>>6234576
https://www.winheller.com/en/banking-finance-and-insurance-law/bitcoin-trading/bitcoin-and-tax.html

"For tax purposes, the classification as an object of speculation means that capital gains are completely tax-exempt after a holding period of at least one year."
tl;dr: HODL for 1 year and you don't pay taxes on crypto in Germany
Now the $500 in XMR please

>> No.6237579

I would guess they had a deal there in HK to pay their expenses in cash, too. There are some quite tricky ways to free transfer money from one country. Like buying a house for a company, then you lease it, then your foreign company can buy it for you (like in Amsterdam or Luxenbourg). And if you close up the circle, you sit somewhere in Canada and only pay like 2% on the money transfer of the house. But it requires experts to all that shit.

>> No.6237741

>>6237553
nice, but I was not talking about only holding and not talking about germany either, so no XMR this time

>>6237579
yeah the more money you have the more options you have, but all that is too expensive for me to arrange at least or I would end up paying more in lawyer fees than taxes kek

>> No.6237794

>>6237741
You win again

>> No.6237888

>>6237794
Of course one solution could be to put everything in USDT or DAI for 1 year and then cash out, but that's pretty risky

>> No.6238106

>>6234704
>Bulgaria on biz to heavy shill for new citizens

>> No.6238157

>>6234704
>http://www.bulgarianproperties.com/Studios_in_Bulgaria/AD64421BG_Studio_for_sale_near_Sunny_Beach.html

>early 80's decor
>stunning
pick one

>> No.6238178

>>6238106
kek not from Bulgaria nor do I live there I just thought it was the best alternative. You can see that I recommended the tax free countries as the first option

>> No.6238226

>>6235468

Sure, but I could just make up some bull shit. I doubt they're going to check it. "Oh, I bought tron at X price, sold here!"

Btw, thanks for the thread, really great.

>> No.6238263

>>6235602

Well aren't you special.

>> No.6238314

>>6236635

Just withdraw under 5-10k a month?

>> No.6238332

>>6238226
Not sure how thorough the tax authorities are, but I know I'll need to provide trading records to one bank I want to open an account with

>> No.6238382

you do realize that according to the SEC you have to trade 5 times in 5 business days to be a day trader?

you can 1000x without trading that much. nobody here is 1000xing by guessing candlestick patterns

>> No.6238383
File: 7 KB, 884x94, discord.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6238383

>>6237398

>> No.6238461

what if u mined 10 BTC in 2012. do i owe the gubment if i change it to USD? and how much?

>> No.6238499

>>6236635
>>6238314
I found some more US info from another thread


" You're all idiots if you still don't know this.

1) Move to Puerto Rico for 183 days + make a donation of $5,000 as required by Act 22.
2) Any capital gains from Puerto Rico will not be taxed by Puerto Rico or by the federal govenrment

This won't apply for 99% of you because you're poorfags and will always be poor fags. But if you're trading large amounts of money, this is a way to avoid short-term or long-term capital gains for upcoming years.

If you're too poor for that - then move to a state where no income tax exists so you can reduce your tax load.

The most important things you poor fags can do since you're dealing with amounts of money that are less than say $20,000:

A) Open up a crypto debit card (tenx, bitpay, monaco) and spend up to $20k with less than 200 transactions a year (otherwise it'll be reported to the IRS.
B) do no more than $8,000 wire transaction from each exchange into a different bank account with minimum 30 days in between ( to be safe). So Kraken + Bitstamp + Coinbase + Gemini = 4 * $32,000.
C) Sell on localbitcoin.
D) Buy gold up to $10,000 with bitcoin.
E) Use Bitcoin atms.

YMMV. "

>> No.6238507

>>6237888
USDT is one of the safest bets for now

>> No.6238510

>>6234576
Good post, should mention that Andorra is also tax free.

>> No.6238564

>>6238382
source?

>>6238461
not sure, maybe income tax on the value in 2012? so almost nothing

>> No.6238599

>>6238178
>4chan
>anything being serious
>im not just a drunken madman ranting at 4:43 p.m. from an unpayed for internet connection

also why did i just have to solve 22 captchas? are people fucking with the 4chan captcha because of pol? or am i just talking too much and they want me to slow down?

>> No.6238616

>>6238510
Is it tax free or was it flat 10% tax as well?
Do you know how hard it is to get residency?

>> No.6238619

>>6234303
Hey taxman, can I use like kind exchange for 2017 taxes? USA. Most things I read say it’s a grey area but you probably shouldn’t. But I really want to because I don’t want to cash out my shitcoins to pay taxes. Thanks for the thread btw.

>> No.6238787

so when i transfer my eth to binance and start shit trading, will the (((government))) be able to backtrace my shit?

what if i spend the BTC as BTC on frivalous shit and never exchange it for USD

>23 fucking captchas this time, FML

>> No.6238798

>>6238619
Well most US people on biz have said yes for 2017 but no for 2018. Some say like kind never existed at all for crypto. If you want to be sure contact a tax advisor, but if I were you I would only start reporting those this year

>> No.6238891

>>6237278
cryptoaltcointradingblogspotcouk/2018/01/crypto-trading-and-taxation.html
(Put a . before and after blogspot and after co)

Point people to that, if you don't want to copy&paste all that again.

>> No.6238910

>>6238599
>>6238787
I don't know what the fuck is wrong with these captchas

I mean they probably can't trace you, but here is when they can catch you possibly
>Buy 1 BTC on Coinbase
>Shitcoin trade on Binance
>End up with 10 BTC, a 10x gain
>Cash out 10 BTC
>Government: Where did 9 BTC come from?
What will you say?

>> No.6239039

>>6238910
i pooped my pants?

>> No.6239172

>>6238891
Blog looks good man! thanks for putting this on there.

>> No.6239210

>>6238910
in reality i say i mined it, but even then dont they want their cut?

i know the tax money goes toward killing hodji, propping up the welfare system keeping (((banks))) in control of the mid east. but im not sure if they would spend it wisely...................

>> No.6239228

>>6236061
I'm from Belgium. I'll do this in Dutch.
Ik ga binnenkort naar een fiscaal advocaat gespecialiseerd in crypto. Je vind deze op Google, ik wil hier geen namen vermelden. Een goed kantoor met drie filialen in brussel, gent, leuven.
Als je zoals mij dit vroeg genoeg doet, gaan deze voor jou wel iets kunnen fixen. Beter om nu te gaan en al connecties op te bouwen met die mensen en een goed plan uit te werken dan geneukt te worden door Bartje De Wever als jij en alle andere Belgen willen uitcashen. Er bestaat iets al "een ruling". Dit kan je op voorhand laten gebeuren door een rechtzaak, met behulp van jouw advocaten dus. Ik hoop op zo'n manier minder belastingen moeten te betalen. Moest ik de gewone 33% moeten betalen zou ik er nog mee kunnen leven. Maar ik heb al gelezen dat je 50% zou moeten afstaan als je een trader bent. Dat is verschrikkelijk veel! Ik raad je dus aan om naar een fiscaal advocaat te gaan en je situatie voor jezelf goed te krijgen. Als je onder 10K uitcasht is het geen probleem, de bank gaat dit niet echt aangeven. Maar eens je meer als 10K hebt moet je je laten bijstaan. Ikzelf heb 1miljoen en dit is nog maar het begin voor mij denk ik; dus ik ga hulp halen. Groetjes uit Gent!!

>> No.6239277

Taxation is theft , what else is there to know?

>> No.6239299

>>6239228
>ill do this in language that less than 1% of the world speaks

some of us are drunk and dont care for your bullshit right now

>> No.6239515

>>6239210
If you can trick them into believing you mined it when it was worthless then the tax would be minimal I guess

>> No.6239544

>>6238798
if you do it for 2017 make sure you are a poorfag, cuz IRS will come back in a couple of years and try to audit (rape) you.

>> No.6239804

>>6238798
Im doing Like-Kind for 2017. 800+ page tax return with 8824s. Im just curious if they will see 800 pages of 8824s, look at one, see its crypto and just reject it entirely. If so, I owe like 5 grand without even cashing out any fiat.

>> No.6239811

>>6239544
maybe yeah

>> No.6239858

>>6239804
let biz know how it goes!

>> No.6239915

>>6239228
Zit voorlopig nog maar tussen de 15-20k zonder echt te traden dus zit nog niet echt aan een advocaat te denken maar is wss de beste oplossing. Mag ik vragen hoe je van plan bent om een miljoen uit te cashen?

>> No.6239932

nobody has mentioned GIFTING. i have a brother in law in koreak. why can't I send him crypto. he cashes out there. then hands me that cash and i bring it home. under 10k of course. and everything is a gift if that makes it easier. pretty sure that would be legal

>> No.6239946

Canada fag here
my accountant told me I'm a trader and it's 100% income cuz I made over 5 trades in 2017

I fired her

was she right?

>> No.6239986

>>6239858
You know it. Look for the Pink Wojak

>> No.6240007

>>6239946
not for US law

>> No.6240034

>>6239932
Yes! totally forgot to mention
most countries have some tax-free gift, maybe 1-5k worth. If you know a lt of people that you trust you could gift all of them and have them hand you cash

but then you are stuck with cash...

>> No.6240052

Im a japanese passport holder, any idea how the crypto tax is over there?

>> No.6240108

>>6239932
Forget how much you can gift total before needing a receipt or before you cant gift anymore.

>> No.6240304
File: 231 KB, 750x1334, Image-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6240304

>>6240034
nobody actually tracks gifts internationally... i think you have to volunteer the info. pic related

>> No.6240442

hello tax man, i am a citizen of both USA and Mexico any way to scheme my may from not paying taxes on my gains? also is it a viable option that we just lost the coins when transferring? we all heard the stories where the transfer was made incorrectly and thousands have been lost. when in reality we just transferred it to wallet?

>> No.6240493

>>6235309
meh I agree that

0.5*1M + 0.5*500K = 950K > 900K

but this only makes sense when you have multiple coin flips

>> No.6240504

>>6234704
any1 really thinking about moving to Bulgaria in the future?
If i get 1MM+ and the market is getting regulated to the fuck I'd really consider it, maybe we should create a /biz/ community in Bulgaria?

>> No.6240512

>>6239172
No problem, thanks for letting pinch it, good stuff!

>> No.6240561

>>6239946
Canadabro, are you larping. Fuck i dont want to give the liberals my money so they sponser rapefugees.

>> No.6240724

>>6240034
One question remains in the case you need to hold for 1 year. If i trade FIAT->ETH->SHITCOIN. Forget the shitcoin for a year go the way back. When i convert back from shitcoin to ETH I would make the wins, but since I hold im ok. But then I have ETH, not fiat.

>> No.6240905
File: 414 KB, 772x804, wo.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6240905

>>6240442
losing your money is your own fault. that doesnt mean you dont still owe the government 35% on your gains, +taxed for every trade, after they take 8% sales tax, 1.5% property tax, payroll tax, corporate tax, energy tax, medicare, social security, State income tax, + fees on every business youve ever bought from THAT YOU PAY FOR.

enjoy the 3% cut of your labor anon.

and dont forget this is a CAPITALIST SOCIETY, WE ARENT SOCIALIST/FACIST AT ALL. you are in control anon! enjoy the fruits of your labors! THE GOVERNMENT DEFINITELY DOESNT CONTROL EVERYTHING.

>> No.6241538

>>6240493
>0.5*1M + 0.5*500K = 950K
you really sure about that anon?

>> No.6241660

>>6240504
have been thinking about it if I make it big

>>6240724
Then you have ETH but it doesn't matter if you exchange it for USD right away, since there is no additional gain.
Anyway, in 1 year there will be both OMG DEX and FairX up and running so you can go shitcoin-> directly to fiat

>> No.6242047

>>6241538
shhh, hes lookng for coins under a dollar

>> No.6242119

>>6234303
Outstanding work OP thanks. Bulgaria sounds cool and the 10% no bullshit tax is acceptable. Whats going on with Ukraine though? I read an article saying they were talking about pushing a bill or something. Any news on that?

>> No.6242169

>>6240905
>Land of the free
>The american dream

>> No.6242213

>Hold REQ for a year in Germany
>Sell it for ETH to cash out
>Derp, haven't held the ETH for a year

Is this only going to work with coins with which I can cash straight out of?

>> No.6242398

>>6242213
if it works anything like stocks you should only have to pay on what you made gains on, so you would pay whatever % on wahatever u profited on req in long term capital gains and tehn another smaller short term gains amount for whatever you gained or lossed in the short time you held the eth

>> No.6242432

>>6242119
https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-drafts-law-exempt-cryptocurrency-income-profits-taxation/

>> No.6242489

>>6242119
they are trying
https://news.bitcoin.com/ukraine-drafts-law-exempt-cryptocurrency-income-profits-taxation/
but no news yet

>> No.6242644

>>6242398
So basically if I were to move to Germany, I should sell all my REQ for ETH a day before moving there and instantly buy it back when moving to get a base price for it in Germany. Then, one year later, I can deduct the buy-in price from the new price?

>> No.6243072

Thank you so much for your time and effort OP, I also loved your previous thread (I contributed to it as well).

You should know that I've contacted the Dutch tax authority on multiple occasions and they consistently confirmed that income tax does not apply to crypto, only box 3. It was done over the phone so it doesn't fully qualify, but I'll email them next time for a legally binding response and will post it at some point.

My key focus area is exactly what you laid down, being the precise threshold that must be crossed when going from investor to active trader, thus going from CGT to income tax. You've given a fair general description, however the two scenarios are at extreme opposites of one another and so aren't very helpful (I'm aware that it was done deliberately for illustrative purposes).

Can you leave a method of contacting you before the thread dies? I'm on a crusade now to find out exactly where each government draws the line between the two by contacting tax authorities and law firms, and would be happy to us to join forces. We could add other anons as well if they'd like to contribute to the war effort, so we might start a slack/discord channel.

Seriously though, hit me up before you disappear

>> No.6243221
File: 3.28 MB, 777x777, Welcome to the communist dimension.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
6243221

>meanwhile it's about 60% tax in France if you have more than 100k
Kill me.

>> No.6243523

>>6234761
Have you looked into their e-residency program as well? Would this be an easy point of access for those who are not from the EU?

>> No.6243540

>>6243072
Thanks anon! That sounds really great, just a sec and I'll post an email here

>> No.6243702

>>6243072
Or hey, can you start a slack/discord? I'm not familiar with how to start those.

Are you dutch btw? I would love to make that my number one choice if you can get a binding response from the tax authority. And also, since the box 3 thing is assessed in January (right?) how would it work if someone moved there in let's say February?

Anyway, thanks for contributing

>> No.6244015

>>6243702
here is an email anyway
taxistheft@protonmail.com

>> No.6244221

>>6243523
I think you need to be actually living there for the company to be valid tax resident there. For info on this, look up the elitetrader forum I linked in the OP

>> No.6244419

>>6244015
Cool thanks man. I've created a Slack room if you wanna join:

https://join.slack.com/t/biztaxes/shared_invite/enQtMjk4MTgxOTk1ODMxLWU5YmE5NDRkMGVlYTgyY2U1ODdlMjU4MzdmNjhmMzM0MTJlNGZhZGMxZDk2MGQ2ZGEzMGY2MzQzZmRiZmI1MDA

>> No.6244525

>>6243072
>being the precise threshold that must be crossed when going from investor to active trader, thus going from CGT to income tax
this is exactly the most important thing to find out. I hate how they always give so fucking vague and subjective definitions... Just so they can fuck you over if they feel like it

>you need to invest like a good house father
yeah but what the fuck does that actually mean REEEEEE

>> No.6244598

>>6244419
awesome! I'll join
lets shill this in every tax thread in the future