/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.57511652]

Why shouldn't I store my crypto keys in "dumb phone" (pic related) without sim and internet connection and protected by PIN code, sitting inside my lockbox? Anyone can read piece of paper and anyone looking for your crypto keys will immediately know it's your crypto keys when they see the paper, nobody is going to waste their time hacking innocuous dumb phone.
How do you store your keys?

[Anonymous No.57511661]

Dumb phones have all the same government backdoors as new phones, you just have less ability to run custom software. Yes, even without a sim card.

[Anonymous No.57511729]

>>57511661
>government backdoors
If your government wants to have your crypto keys they do not need any backdoors. If you have the keys written down, they will just barge into your house, search it and take them. However government actively looking for it's citizens crypto is most likely totalitarian government, and it would probably imprison/torture you without second thought to get the keys. There's no way to store your keys without government easily getting them, if they wished to do so.
I am talking about security against your family/the court/thieves/scammers/hackers.

[Anonymous No.57512015]

>>57511652
Just get a vault with time lock and clawback. Then you can save your key on a normal phone with internet and actually use it to sign transactions like a normal human.

[Anonymous No.57512022]

>>57511652
compose a song with your key phrase

[Anonymous No.57512101]

>>57512015
>phone with internet
that's how you get hacked

[Anonymous No.57512218]

>>57512101
That’s when you do a clawback + rekey

[Anonymous No.57512596]

>>57511652
Only problem I see is battery, if that dies or leaks it might be a problem.

[Anonymous No.57512748]

>>57512596
Have 2 separate dumb phones at 2 places, buy new ones every 3 years, wipe and throw out the old ones.

[Anonymous No.57512813]

Modern smartphones have better utilities to securly store keys aka cryptographic keystores, i doubt a nokia 3310 has any kind of keystore as there was no use for it, it can certainly be read out easier than any smartphone (setting aside goverment level attackers), at this point a dumbphone is just security by obfuscation

Might as well use your own chiffre or something

[Anonymous No.57512817]

>>57511729
they can take it off a dumb phone and pretend you just fumbled something, they can't raid their citizens houses and do that.

[Anonymous No.57512872]

>>57512748
Yeah I don't see a problem. Mines on a thumb drive in my offline laptop bag.

[Anonymous No.57512922]

>>57512872
I hope you don't have them stored in a text file, becouse you have no assurance that your PC was secure/unwatched, when you created the file and typed in the phrase.

[Anonymous No.57513107]

>>57512922
Coreboot laptop that hasn't been on the Internet before running a copy of tails with whatever it's called with the folder that stays. If someone has it I'll be very surprised.

[Anonymous No.57513596]

I keep all my banking information and crypto keys on several hard drives that are all encrypted with a passcode that is about 60 digits long and I will never forget it because it is the 6 phone numbers of my family members in order of who lives closest to me that has been burnt in to my brain for 15 years, you all think about this shit too much

[Anonymous No.57513640]

Use a trezor you retard, shit is $60 bux, stop being poor

[Anonymous No.57513663]

>>57513640
We're do you store the trezor keys?

[Anonymous No.57513795]

>>57511652
The big problem with having keys on paper, or in airgap, etc is that for you to spend your coins you need to pass that key in plaintext at some point to a machine with an internet connection. Such as at the time you import a wallet with electrum or whatever. This is the real benny to hardware wallets. The intrusion risk when someone has physical access is a good plus but that's honestly the whole point
>>57511729
Multisig. Yeah there's ultimately a roundabout way, but even big dick gov can't defeat modern encryptions. RSA used to be a munition legally

[Anonymous No.57513851]

>>57511652
Those have worse security than normal phones. The reason people like them is that when you're asked to run an app (either by habit or the people you socialize) you have plausible deniability.

[Anonymous No.57513985]

>>57513851
why would the security even matter if you never connect it to anything and just keep it in lockbox. Nobody in my vicinity is going to hack through pin code password on dumb phone. No burglar is gonna do that either. The phone will be turned on only when I enter the keys, then turned off until I need those keys, after that turned off again.
Security does not matter as there will be nobody trying to break through it, there's no banking app for dumb phones, it does not use any apps that use accounts, it has no google, it has no way to hold sensitive information.

[Anonymous No.57514125]

>>57513985
>until I need those keys
Yoink

[Anonymous No.57514722]

>>57511652
Just buy a fire proof seed phase tabulator, cut a small hole in your wall behind a permanent fixture, insert it, spackle, sand it, paint and you’re good.

[Anonymous No.57514758]

>>57512218
What about a clapback?

[Anonymous No.57514761]

>>57511729
When I make it, I'll have the keys tattooed to the inside of my eye lids.
Shinning a bright light on my lids will reveal the keys.

[Anonymous No.57516653]

>>57513663
The backup phrase? Punched into 316 ss sheet and buried in a national forest

[Anonymous No.57516707]

>>57516653
Why would you bury it somewhere it could be found. It's better to bury it in your backyard. Don't make security overly complex chances are if you're a normie you'll fuck if up. I've wanted to move over to multisig but steaking linkies required the same wallet addresses. I hope one day we will have the option of moving wallets while keeping our priority

[Anonymous No.57516725]

this is some real brown iq level shit, op

[Anonymous No.57516746]

this is some real brown iq level shit, op
if you're not capable of using the keys on the device in a secure way they don't belong on it.

[Anonymous No.57516765]

my keys are stored in a passworded winrar file on google drive with 2fa. any problems with this method? I don't think there's a way to crack winrar passwords, right?

[Anonymous No.57516781]

>>57516765
You need to use the full version of winrar for it too work

[Anonymous No.57516784]

>>57516765
2fa means absolutely nothing. insiders at google have drained people.
winrar is for retards

your keys need to be encrypted with at least as much entropy as a 12 word seed to be put online in any form whatsoever using a standardized tool like GPG and not some kiddy windows program like winrar.

[Anonymous No.57516788]

>>57516781
I pirated my winrar. is that safe?

[Anonymous No.57516800]

>>57511652
the meeory of modern electronic devices is less than 5 years. your phone needs to be powered every 5 years or it will lose your private key.

ever wondered why an old SSD takes so long to boot up? its because its trying to restore lost bits. in 5 years the information will not be recoverable

[Anonymous No.57516835]

>buy nintendo ds
>buy 100 rpg games
>name your party/pets/diary/memo/anything
>carry your keys anywhere

[Anonymous No.57516859]

>>57516788
y-you pirated winrar?

[Anonymous No.57516864]

>>57516765
Why are you people doing this. Why would you put your keys on a cloud service. It's just undue risk especially for stuff that you want to hold for years. What the fuck how new are you all. Did you not spend just an hour to actually research secure methods of holding keys?

Reading this stuff on reddit makes me laugh but here it's really disappointing. Don't overcomplicate it. A cheap hardware wallet with the features you need that holds your main stack that you don't connect to anything. A hardware wallet for active trading funds if needed that you can connect to sites. A fire resistant/proof metal plate to stamp seed words in. Hide it somewhere in your walls, inside a mattress or bury it in your yard. Dont fuck around with the extreme in security because you'll likely make a mistake along the way or forget the process to unlock your wallet.

Thats the easiest and safest way for normies to do things. You'd only need more security if you're someone of note or the funds grow extremely large in that case you'd think of secure international backups and have enough money to actually organise it.

Don't put your seed on a computer. Don't wear crypto branded clothing. Don't make yourself a target

[Anonymous No.57516876]

>>57516859
yes...the free version has an annoying popup

[Anonymous No.57516888]

>>57516864
rest easy knowing the people with these ideas don't have any wealth to preserve in the first place

[Anonymous No.57516898]

>>57516876
based. I like you anon. No, your keys are not safe. Listen to >>57516864

[Anonymous No.57516902]

>>57516835
Yeah I like this actually but then you have considerations about longevity with the carts and the ds. If you're under scrutiny a ledger will get picked up. You could try to post it to where you need to go. The ds trick would work if you've spaced the words out over a few games too. But I wouldn't want it as my only backup, only as a secondary or as a means to move as incognito as possible.

[Anonymous No.57516938]

>>57516902
Protip: Some rpgs have far away places where you can write stuff on map or sign. No one will clear dungeons to find these locations.

[Anonymous No.57516972]

>>57516938
If you do this make sure to have save files in many games so you don't just have one that will stand out should they look at the data.

[Anonymous No.57517000]

>>57516972
These carts last for decades and if your ds brokes it doesn't matter since they save all data on cart. You can have back up save on your computer among many other games.

[Anonymous No.57517078]

>>57511652
I've had this idea of just cryptographing the seed phrase and then writing down the key of that in a paper instead of the actual seed. Then I would store whatever custom made program I made for that cryptography in as many places as I can.
That's probably the safest way of holding onto this shit, right?

[Anonymous No.57517142]

>>57517078
no

[Anonymous No.57517644]

>>57517078
If you're scared of storing the seed words as they are they can be put into numbers to the associated word. If even this is not enough you could make a cypher to obfuscate it. I suppose storing this cypher somewhere accessible wouldn't be too bad as it alone being accessed wouldn't do anything. Tamper proof stickers and to directly cover the words are also an idea. The problem is by the time you even notice the stickers have been tampered with its likely your account will have been compromised but I suppose it does give you some indication that it has been viewed.

It really depends how much money you have, the conditions you find yourself in (renting in an apartment with roommates vs living alone rurally) and how much you trust yourself to create a solid system.

The problem is most people don't want to spend a few hundred bucks on different ledgers, different metal plates, tamper proof stickers, extra laptop for trading only... And so on

[Anonymous No.57517683]

the best way is reprogram old NES games and hide your phrases throughout the game.
for example, I have edited a mario2 rom to contain the phrase on the screen for 8 seconds once a certain block is hit. each level has one block with one phrase. I have played and finished the game so many times that the locations are second nature to me.
the rom is uploaded to a cloud and also on multiple hard storage.

[Anonymous No.57518167]

>>57517683
>the best way is reprogram old NES games and hide your phrases throughout the game.
>for example, I have edited a mario2 rom to contain the phrase on the screen for 8 seconds once a certain block is hit. each level has one block with one phrase. I have played and finished the game so many times that the locations are second nature to me.
>the rom is uploaded to a cloud and also on multiple hard storage.

Do you have a download link?

[Anonymous No.57518210]

>>57518167
its a larp, one diff with the original game and someone with good emulator knowledge would find the secrets in <30 minutes.

[Anonymous No.57518248]

>>57511652
My keys are laser etched into the motherboard of my PS4. My seed phrase is also etched into the motherboard of an old router I have collecting dust. I used to have one printed in fake lottery tickets.

[Anonymous No.57518389]

Store it encrypted on a dedicated server

[Anonymous No.57518597]

>>57518210
no chance, the changes are made in machine code and are thus unknown to anyone unless they take the time to learn 6502 and then go through every line of code in the game with a magnifying glass, and even then. the code is also hidden so much that it only changes a few characters around and thus does not take up any additional memory or look out of place.
>>57518167
have an image instead

[Anonymous No.57518679]

>>57516784
You're retarded. As long as the password is not guessable, you're not cracking winrar before you can just crack the Blockchain. Retards.

Also you didn't use entropy correctly here so maybe learn wtf you're even talking about

[Anonymous No.57518892]

Mixing List of random words up to 500 which are numbered.

>1. go
>2.red
>3.head
>4.computer
>5.fuck
>6.eat
>7.captcha
>8.chan
>9.yourself
>10.dog
>11.cat
>12.anal
>13.never
>14.mother
>15.something
>16.house
>17.fork

keep my corresponding numbers and order safe.

>1. 5. 9.

[Anonymous No.57518906]

>>57518679
yawn, you jeet iqs are all the same

[Anonymous No.57519015]

Whoa...

[Anonymous No.57519359]

>>57516765
What the fuck? Use 7zip already. Though, Winrar does use a good key derivation function and either 128 bit or 256 bit AES for encryption, so the protection is as good as your password is. I hope you used a long one and not like, "n1gg3rz".

[Anonymous No.57519452]

>>57512813
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Base_Band_5
There actually has been rather good security in Nokia models for ~15 years. Yes, probably hackable by your govt but you need to be a value target for anybody to go through that. No gov't backdoors in older phones (check for yourself, e.g. Symbian OS code is open source). Been there, wrote that.

But yeah, any electronic lockable device that's disconnected and has PIN or smth is, in my opinion, equally good as any other HW wallet.

[Anonymous No.57519527]

>>57518892
You'd need enough words from the bip39 word list at least. There are 2048. Putting 500 random words someone could type them in and see what ones match the word list and what are random. Sure then they'd have to order them. Keeping the numbers anywhere is fine since alone they are meaningless.

Having to hit specific bricks in Mario seems to be too at risk of losing your seed purely through passage of time. Unless you're playing Mario every few months to refresh your memory...

[Anonymous No.57519541]

nigga just buy a gun and shoot people