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File: 27 KB, 531x287, BitCoin Roubini.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
196468 No.196468[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Nouriel Roubini is the economist who most accurately and famously predicted both the 2008 US crash and the 2009 European crisis.

He says BitCoin is not and will never be a currency.
Thoughts?

>> No.196486

>The New York Times notes that he foresaw "homeowners defaulting on mortgages, trillions of dollars of mortgage-backed securities unraveling worldwide and the global financial system shuddering to a halt".[2]
>In September 2006, he warned a skeptical IMF that "the United States was likely to face a once-in-a-lifetime housing bust, an oil shock, sharply declining consumer confidence, and, ultimately, a deep recession".

>In 2008, Fortune magazine wrote, "In 2005 Roubini said home prices were riding a speculative wave that would soon sink the economy. Back then the professor was called a Cassandra. Now he's a sage".[3]
>Nobel laureate Paul Krugman adds that his once "seemingly outlandish" predictions have been matched "or even exceeded by reality."[4]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouriel_Roubini#2006

>> No.196483

>>196468

people use it as a currency right now

doesn't matter what he says

>> No.196490

Kinda late to say that.

>> No.196500
File: 42 KB, 505x337, BitCoin Roubini 2.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
196500

He's right.

Every service offered in BitCoins is priced in the BitCoin equivalent of a real currency, like dollars.

>> No.196509

>>196500
The thing is, it's being exchanged for goods and services, which makes it a currency.

>> No.196512

>>196483

It's more of a commodity, with people accepting payment in the BTC equivalent of USD.

>> No.196526

It's a commodity. I can buy drugs and child porn with it. Or stupid Bitcoin novelty shirts and stickers.

>> No.196532

>>196500
saying this is like saying everything sold in euros is priced in usd equivalent?

>> No.196540

>>196532

Except that's false. Lots of prices are tied to EUR. I've yet to see a major retailer who tied prices to BTC.

>> No.196546

b-but if an expert mega-genius god-amongst-men economist says it it must be true!

>> No.196547

>>196540
>I've yet to see a major retailer who tied prices to BTC.

And until someone creates hedging products, that will remain the norm for BTC.

>> No.196561

How can it be a store of value when no assets are priced in BTC?

>> No.196570

>>196561

Well it can be a store of value in theory. You don't price things in terms of land or metal, but these things are generally considered to be stores of value.

>> No.196574

BitCoin is more of a commodity, due to its inherent dependance on a real-world physical currency, i.e. (USD, EUR, GBP)

>> No.196614

>>196468
he's right about bitcoins and cryptocurrencies in general

>> No.196622

It behaves like it's users treat it; not like a currency, but an extremely volatile and speculative commodity that just happens to be exchangeable for goods worth something in USD.

A lot of people who are in it aren't currency believers. They just want to get rich. So long as that pervasive attitude exists (and it will always exist, that is the nature of currency markets), Bitcoin will never be a currency.

One day it will crash and burn. Then we'll move onto the next cryptocurrency, which will be better and possibly have a chance of actually being a currency. But it will never be Bitcoin.

>> No.196636

>>196509

Generally, people convert those btc into dollars. Few businesses actually want to keep their wealth in btc.

>> No.196640

>>196636
And? Cash gets converted into money in bank accounts, that doesn't mean cash isn't money.

>> No.196651

>>196640

Err... what? Those are just different forms of the same currency.

The point is that practically no one prices in BTC. Wages are paid and goods / services are tied to USD / EUR / CNY / whatever.

>> No.196686

>>196468

He's absolutely right.

Bitcoin cannot simply be used in e-commerce, for too many reasons.

>> No.196706

Bitcoin is gold, not money.

I mean it gets "mined." It was probably intentional.

>> No.196723

Obviously it is since people use it as currency.

>> No.196735

>>196540
Yes because it is fucking 5 years old. The only type of currency that enters the market with things priced as it are crap fiat currency.

>bitcoins aren't used for the things I like, thus it is not a currency

>> No.196746

>>196723

I've used beer as currency before. Should we consider beer to be currency?

>>196735

If that ever changes we can reconsider our position, but for right now it isn't really currency and it probably won't be any time soon because of its instability. You'd have to be pretty foolish to set prices in BTC right now.

>> No.196743

>the economist who most accurately and famously predicted the financial crashes
>not an Austrian

>> No.196758

the belief that cryptocurrency has value is the only reason it does have value. Similarly the belief in the US economy gives value to dollars. The major difference is that there is no entity to back up the value of bitcoins, they are only as valuable as people believe them to be. Bitcoins grew in value from use to facilitate drug dealing on the silk road and eventually bubbled when people with money realized they could make money from buying and trading them. Once the value rose to huge levels people started selling them off for more stable curriencies leading us to where we are today. There is also the legal issue of the US government not having control over a currency or currency market. I have no idea as to the legality of cryptocurrency.

>> No.196787

>>196468
I can see him saying something like that if it worked like paypal or something, just a delivery system for transactions.

But bitcoin can be used to buy and sell goods and has a value

Also
>base 4 criminal activities
>4
Really Nouriel?
>>196758
>they are only as valuable as people believe them to be
Buts that's how everything is valued though, not just currency. Even USD, while that Fed may have some control of the USD it ultimately is only as valuable as people believe it to be.

Its not like you can say it's worth this much gold and exchange it for such or anything *cough*.

>>196746
>I've used beer as currency before. Should we consider beer to be currency?
No, it's a good. Bitcoins can be used as medium to purchase goods. But now we are arriving at arguing or the definitions of things.

>> No.196790

>>196468

Already functions as a Currency, sure it's not defined as one but that doesn't matter.

Gold is a currency, but it's also a commodity. Your still going to have people say it's a currency though, even though one side says the other.

Also, Bitcoin is the easiest internet commerce technology out there. If you have ever bought something online, you know how easy bitcoin is to use.


Bitcoin is only going to get bigger.

>> No.196798

>>196758

False. There is literally millions of computers backing up the bitcoin network, and that is expanding every day.

Go google bitcoin mining center, literally complexes with just server machines mining btc.

>> No.196802

>>196790
Show me something that's priced with btc.
Not 'this thing is xx dollar, btc rate right now is yy dollar, so this thing's price is xx/yy btc'

>> No.196805

>>196686

Wrong.

Bitcoin, and it's blockchain technology is the easiest form of internet commerece available today.

Cost free, just as fast if not faster, incredibly easy to use I could go on and on


Why do you think other companies are moving to adopt/and or create similiar protocols of there own?


If you had ever used bitcoin you would know 100% what I am talking about.

>> No.196812

>>196802

LMAO

Your a fucking retard dude. That is because of America dollars being the reserve currency of the world.

I don't know if you realize this but just about everything else is priced to usd, that must not make it a currency.

Your argument doesn't really prove anything, unless your arguing that bitcoin has immediately convertibility to USD.

Which is something any currency/commodity can do.

>> No.196817

>>196790
How can something be easier then using a CC to buy something online?

>> No.196823

>>196817

If you have to ask me this question you shouldn't be here.

>> No.196838

It's still mainly an investment. It's way too wild to be used as an actual currency.
"How much for a pizza?"
"50 bitcoins"
"But it was 0.001 bitcoins yesterday!"
"Too bad sir."

>> No.196827
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196827

>>196798
>>196805
>>196812
>>196823
>False.
>Wrong.
>LMAO
>Your a fucking retard dude.
>If you have to ask me this question you shouldn't be here.

I'm on your side and agree with you, but fuck, you post like a pretentious faggot

>> No.196841

>>196823
It's literally 1 click with a CC on amazon, is bitcoin no clicks?

>> No.196844

>>196827

Sorry about that man.

I'll chill out

>> No.196850

>>196812
Nope.
Things in us is priced to usd.
Things in yuropp is priced to euro or the country's respective currency
Things in japan is priced to yen

Now tell me, is there a place in the world where things are priced to btc? Again without the xx/yy dollar rate.

>> No.196854

>>196509
You could claim cocaine is a currency by that logic.

>> No.196851

>>196838
>investment
>currency
>two opposing things

It is possible for it to be both you know
Currency trading exist

>>196844
100% neato

>> No.196861
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196861

>>196850
Shitty Argument.

>>196841
Shittier argument

Bitcoin is going to succeed and go way higher in price cause it's going to be a bitch to mine year end. Your arguments aren't going to stop that

>> No.196872

>>196850
What about foreign transactions that a priced in USD that are paid for with euros or such. Just because a price is advertised in one currency does not make any other currency less valid

>>196854
Depends on what your definition of a currency is, but yeah it could be.

>the quality or state of being used or accepted by many people

>> No.196870

>>196854

I prefer cocaine over dollars any day of the week

>> No.196879

>>196870
That's fair.

>> No.196876

>>196850

So, you'll stop shitposting when bitcoin is the official currency of some country then you'll buy it?

Dude by then we're all going to be fiat millionaires.

Thanks Aunty Yellen, and Uncle Ben

>> No.196878

>>196861
>can't reply to the argument
>W-well it was a shit argument anyway! Shitty shit! Lalala I can't hear you Bitcoin is going to the MOOOOON!

literally retarded

people like you are why BTC will never be a currency

>> No.196874

>>196861
lol so you just admitted to us that you're just a shill who can't actually argue points

>> No.196881

>>196878

Well I fart in your general direction!

lol,I think Max Keiser, and the Winklevoss twins are going to work magic ;)

>> No.196884

>>196872
USD is the international currency, yes, but local currencies still exist. When you travel to Europe things are priced in EUR regardless of what the USD happens to be trading at.

If we start seeing localities price goods and services in BTC, then sure, I'd consider BTC a currency. Until then it's a commodity.

>> No.196885
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196885

>>196881

This is us

>> No.196892

>>196884

Well, commodities can a currency.
Gold is considered one of those, of course there are those who disagree.

I think Bitcoin, is going to get incredibly rare sooner rather than later and combined with a shitty world economy, and more fiat printing could spell much higher prices.

>> No.196905

>>196884
Again though.

Currencies and commodities are not to opposing things, it can function as both.

>> No.196909

>>196884

Coming down to earth here.

I don't think Bitcoin has to be widely accepted to succeed. We don't need to be able to buy groceries with it, I mean we will be able too but it that's not what bitcoin is about.

Remember, bitcoin is a lot like gold.

People invest in it to protect themselves against currencies devaluing, while still have enough liquidity to use them in the worst of situations.

It's also hard to get, relatively rare, and hoarded like gold.

So, say if we see more QE in Japan, USA, etc then we could maybe see more investment demand in bitcoin.

Remember, buying groceries is all but a small part of the picture and the economy. A lot of it is in cyberspace in complex financial instruments.

>> No.196911

>>196872
>foreign transaction
You might have a point, but :
in yuropp, euro is accepted as currency without having it priced to usd
in japan, yen is the same
in china, yuan is the same

Again, is there a place in the world where btc is accepted as currency straight without converting it first?

>>196892
>(ID: dtTUEuuY)
You're shilling pretty hard here. Did you buy btc when it's more than a grand or something?

>> No.196918

>>196850
Governments force people to price things in a certain currency? Wow, that affects the status of Bitcoin in no way whatsoever since it is not associated with any government.

>> No.196921

>>196892
Yeah, I'm one of those. Gold is a commodity. Just because things are commodities doesn't mean you can't invest in them (quite the contrary).

>>196905
Agreed, but it comes down to what you want to define currency as. I don't consider BTC a currency at this point in time.

>>196909
That has nothing to do with whether you consider BTC a currency or not.

>> No.196925

>>196911
>You're shilling pretty hard here. Did you buy btc when it's more than a grand or something?


I mine it, costs me around $300 for a bitcoin.


I'm not really heavily invested. There are people with millions who shill way harder.

>>196911
I don't believe it is, but that is not going to stop people from investing in it

>> No.196926

>>196468
It's not; it's a commodity.

>> No.196927

>>196911
>Again, is there a place in the world where btc is accepted as currency straight without converting it first?
http://www.coindesk.com/lamborghini-dealership-sells-cars-bitcoins/

>>196921
>Agreed, but it comes down to what you want to define currency as. I don't consider BTC a currency at this point in time.
Yeah, at this point we are getting down to what our individual definition of the word currency means and that starts to get to be subjective.

>> No.196929

>>196918

You're not forced to price things in certain currencies. It just happens to be that the government will pay and accept that certain currency and it snowballs into everyone using it.

You can refuse to accept payment in anything other than apples if that's what you want to do.

>> No.196931

>>196921


I'm saying it doesn't need to be defined and legally recognized as a currency to succeed. Similar to how gold works. You can find gold bugs who will talk gold for something, treat it like a currency. But it's still not legally recognized as one, sure it's somewhat of a road block but it's not any kind of death blow to cryptocurrencies

>> No.196932
File: 44 KB, 493x379, BitCoin Roubini 3.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
196932

Oh boy

>> No.196937

>>196929

No this is not true. Legal tender laws make it illegal for you to refuse payment in the national currency.

People can break the law, but it's one that can certainly be enforced.

>> No.196943

>>196927
They don't actually price in BTC though, now do they? They price in USD or w/e and then you pay the BTC equivalent.

>>196931
Okay, that's fine. Not what I'm talking about though.

>> No.196941

>>196932
Tell me mister genius if people in Argentina are conspiracy nuts for wanting to use a different form of money?

>> No.196942

>>196636
irrelevant, its being used as a medium of exchange/currency therefor it is.

>> No.196945
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196945

>>196932
>petty insults
Makes him look like a idiot

>> No.196944

>>196468

He's right

>> No.196946

>>196932
There is a lot of distrust in the US government, and the federal reserves handling of the US dollar. Nothing wrong with that.

>>196937
I have actually paid for something before in pennies to spite someone, and made them accept it with legal tender laws. Hahaha

>> No.196952

Bitcoin is the currency of the internet. Real world? Not so much.

>> No.196953

>>196937

Nope. That's only if you don't establish it in the contract. Laws make it illegal to charge 500 USD and then demand it be paid in equivalent apple value instead of USD, but it's perfectly legal if you upfront say that product x costs 50 apples.

>> No.196954
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196954

Is... is he drunk tweeting?

>> No.196955

>>196927
>“Bitcoin paid for the car and charger and it seems appropriate to support the bitcoin economy that paid for these benefits,” he said.
Okay, cool so far.

>According to Sholl’s information on Recargo, which maps out EV charging locations, the price per charge is $10.
Whoops, still using dollar rate.

>> No.196956

>>196943

So your argument is that since it's not legally recognized as my nations currency I don't think it's one. You see it as more akin to a commodity.

That's far. We disagree, but that's far.

>> No.196960

>>196943
>>196955
>They don't actually price in BTC though, now do they? They price in USD or w/e and then you pay the BTC equivalent.
Again though, I argue that just because a good is priced in one currency doesn't mean others are not valid

What matters is what they accept as a means to pay for said good

The transaction is what is important not what currency they advertise it in.

>> No.196962

>>196468

>my entire existence is bound to fiat currency

hm wonder if his opinion is biased?

>> No.196969

>>196932

BTC shills BTFO'd by Roubini

>> No.197716

>>196468
He's right. Cryptos were devised to sell hardware.

>> No.197753

>>196468
If he predicted both crisis' why the fuck isnt he a billionaire who made his fortune shorting the shit out of companies?

>> No.197904

>>196468
>>196512
here i googled it for you

cur·ren·cy (kûr′ən-sē, kŭr′-)
n. pl. cur·ren·cies
1. Money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange
2. Transmission from person to person as a medium of exchange; circulation: coins now in currency.
3. General acceptance or use; prevalence: the currency of a slang term.
4. The state of being current; up-to-dateness

>> No.197935

>>196686
But i use for e-commerce.

>> No.197953

>>196468
>Thoughts?
are you seriously trying to get bitcoinfags to justify their currency?

you give these people too much credit

>> No.198007

>>197953
>credit
>currency

I see what you did there ;) *nudge*

>> No.198550

>>197904
fiatfags got BTFOd!

>> No.198563

>>196468
He's right. Bitcoin is useful almost exclusively for under-the-table deals, and although it deserves more attention than it gets in that regard, it is otherwise useless.

>> No.198580

>>196941
even if you live in some place like Argentina or Russia, there are better ways to get your money out of the local currency and hide your wealth from the cleptocrats than buying bitcoin

>> No.198589

>>198563
This is why you use it to buy insane amounts of drugs from the internet for cheap and then hire your own middlemen and druglords to sell them for you.

Heroin - its the way of the future

>> No.198596

>>196468
dat nigga wrong

>> No.198617

>>198580
It may be difficult to buy bitcoins in a certain area, but that isn't a fault against the concept of a crytocurrency. If the government makes private farming illegal and people can't get food does that damn farming as a whole?