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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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9520149 No.9520149 [Reply] [Original]

Would /biz/ have made it as a trader when this is how it was done?

>> No.9520162

>too autistic to be a trader

>> No.9520193

i would just hire a broker or just buy my shit through the bank

>> No.9520194

>>9520149
Absolutely not

>> No.9520207

>>9520149
basically this is /biz/ every day

tons of people shilling and not much trading

>> No.9520208

Fuck that kek
Only reason me trade now because you can do it anywhere and by yourself

>> No.9520214

>>9520149
Yes but I probably would have blown all of it if I got it too young, and unless you’re a real fucking lifer, it’s a young mans profession

>> No.9520502

>>9520149
unironically yes because I'm tall. I saw this at a very young age and was told these people make a lot of money and decided i wanted to be a trader in kindergarten. I was saddened by the time I was studying finance in college to learn it was basically over by the early 2000s

>> No.9520516

>>9520149
That looks like total chaos. How did they ever negotiate and get any trades done?

>> No.9520549

>>9520516
You had to be loud, aggressive, and stand out from the other cucks

>> No.9521254
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9521254

This was better than the bots we have today.

>> No.9521575

>>9521254
indeed. provide liquidity my ass. cocksuckers just eating everyones spread all day long across every stock/index/whatever

i wouldve fucking loved it. i swear too much, yell a lot, everyone finds my personality standoffish, and i can trade. dont make me feel OP. i wish i had this job more than anything

>> No.9521641

>100% male

Yes

>> No.9522145

Much of the methods these guys did are replaced by HFTs.

They looked for arbitrage opportunities on the floor because some people would be will sell and buy at differing prices, on differing areas of the floor.

If you knew a floor broker, who carried out orders for some large clients, they could (illegally) let you know what they were about to do, and you could front run their activity. Large funds now use certain types of orders and exchanges which hide their activity from HFTs, who use to buy/sell orders on exchanges which received information slower, once orders had begun taking place on exchanges which received information faster.

These guys called Locals would bully the market around, and go hunting for stops, and he'd probably know whose stops he was actually targeting, as he would've seen their activity on the floor.

There would also be guys who would've acted as implicit market makers. The spreads back then were much larger.

>> No.9522259

>>9522145
>These guys called Locals would bully the market around, and go hunting for stops, and he'd probably know whose stops he was actually targeting, as he would've seen their activity on the floor.
i heard that it used to be much more brutal back then in terms of this.

tell us more, pops
this stuff is really interesting to hear about

>> No.9522400

>>9522259
Oh I was never a floor trader. Just watched some documentaries, and read some books about what things were like.

But yeah, all that stuff i mentioned still exists. It's just carried out in different manners.

>> No.9522545

>>9522400
>all that stuff i mentioned still exists
i guess its less personal now. i cant imagine how pissed i would be if some guy was front running my trades right in front of me, and then smashing em all to bits.

>> No.9522555

>>9521575
NYSE still exists but you're not good enough

>> No.9522584
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9522584

>>9522555
i know...
it looks fun though. heard a lot of cool stories

>> No.9522615

>>9522555
does CBOE count?
i could probably do that

>> No.9522751

>>9520149
Nope. I wouldn't at least. I think most people are afraid to get into the trading game because they imagine it still being like the pre-internet days.

>> No.9522831

>>9522545
It's still fucking personal, believe me, it's just we don't know who each other are.

If you watch a futures order book, whether it be the US stock indices or commodities, the first thing you'll notice are the Market Making HFTs posting their bids and offers. And you'll notice that they're able to respond to large orders, being placed in the order book, extremely quickly. Some of the Market Makers are able to avoid something known as "Adverse Selection". Market Markers don't make money (through the Spread) if their counter party in the trade guesses direction correctly. So some of them target orders which seem to posted by Retail Traders (like myself). The characteristics of Retail orders are that they're often small, are often posted at "sub-optimal" prices, and don't often get filled. This helps certain HFT market makers predict direction, and know who to enter into trades with. They also constantly monitor the level of bids and offers to keep an eye on whose driving the momentum: buyers or sellers?

The next thing you'll almost immediately notice is the Spoofing that takes place (something I was very surprised to see happening when I first started watching order books, as it's meant to be illegal). Certain HFTs will flash large orders at key moments to drive prices in certain directions. They then scalp the movements they create.

Even though larger players know how to hide their orders much better, HFTs have models which essentially amount to modern day Tape Reading, where they're able to identify activity which signifies accumulation/distribution by larger players.

>> No.9522955

>>9520149
>my feet hurt
>so loud in here; tinnitus when?
>everyone here is a Chad a foot taller than me
>did that guy even hear me?

>> No.9522982

SIX BID SEVEN
SIX BID SEVEN!

>> No.9523047

>>9522982
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X3UFmhlyuE
think how fuckin crazy it wouldve been to trade futures on this

>> No.9523117

>>9523047
In regards to those so called flash crashes, if there's money on the table they're going to take it. SNB, Pound Black Wednesday '92, VIX, and so on.
I find this kind of stuff extremely fascinating, I'm like autistic about it. But this kind of information is too good for biz. Im going to watch Person Of Interest now.

>> No.9523291

>>9523117
>In regards to those so called flash crashes, if there's money on the table they're going to take it.

I have to disagree. I'm very skeptical of their claims of adding value through "reducing volatility". And in terms of their Market Making, they're not obligated to always post bids and offers, and so are not True Market Makers, more just Spread speculators who work on very small timescales.

I doubt that sort of trading could be banned, due to the amounts of money made through it, which allows for political influence.

Financial markets will just become more and more of a joke, as time goes on. It'll soon just be a bunch of Physicists, Mathematicians, and Engineers trading, and they won't even know what a fucking Trial Balance is.

>> No.9523344

i learned alot from flash boys. I feel like literally everything is cucked by the HFTs today

>> No.9524177

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-05-16/high-frequency-trading-for-bitcoins

Coinbase is going to allow co-location.

>> No.9524485

what do you guys think about the rumors that citadel frontruns orders on all of robinhoods users? id say it sounds in line with how ive heard that platform perform. never really looked into it

>> No.9524604

>>9524485
It's not that they front run orders, they deliberately buy order flow from Retail Brokers, so that they are more likely to avoid Adverse Selection (something I mentioned earlier).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Payment_for_order_flow

>willing to pay a broker for the right to transact with that broker's clients because they believe those clients will be uninformed traders—retail or other investors who are trading because of emotion or the need to raise cash and not because they know an asset is misvalued

That's an oversimplified explanation for why Retail often gets it wrong. But the fact is, we often do get it wrong, and so we're sheep for the slaughter. Trading boils down to one part losing and one party winning, you can get as mathsywatsy about it as you want, but that's all it is. And he who has the most volume, has the largest impact on price (in most cases). Retail often doesn't have the volume.

>> No.9524654

>>9524604
>That's an oversimplified explanation for why Retail often gets it wrong. But the fact is, we often do get it wrong, and so we're sheep for the slaughter.
so how do i win if i cant see the big guys order flow?

>> No.9524735

>>9524654
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Br-qsM8QZe0&t=425s

I highly recommend this video, she gives a really good qualitative explanation of how HFTs are better order book traders than human traders. You could start at around 7:20.

It's hard to answer your question directly, because it's hard just to say what "works", it's no that easy. The one thing us smaller guys can do though is to obviously not bet against the market. This is essentially the whole focus of trend trading. We can also focus on trading higher time frames. Fundamentals will always cause trends to occur on high time frames, because the whole point of markets is to price in new information/expectations, as they arise - causing supply/demand shifts, resulting in a net movement in price. But it entirely depends on your capabilities as a trader/investor, as to what you want to do.

>> No.9524749

>>9524485
If someone uses Robinhood to trade, I don’t think it would even be worth it to front run orders. Their small orders are irrelevant to price. Am I wrong?

>> No.9524796

Probably, yes. This had to be just like today, but with much slower price movement and order execution. One major problem, though: to monitor the prices you need to stay inside the building at all times. People were getting info from newspapers, which were released once a day.

>> No.9524818

>>9520149
I have social anxiety, I wouldn't be able to trade in such an environment
the comfy solitude of my small apartment is where it's at

>> No.9524837

>would a bunch of autistic NEETs made it in one of the most alpha industries in history?

>> No.9524864

>>9524818
>>9524837
You should watch some documentaries about floor trading before the internet. Some of those dudes were /biz/ tier autists.

>> No.9525111

>>9520149
I would just yell the most random shit.

>MAMMY WHERE'S MY TENDIES
>MAMMY I DREW SOME LINES ON A GRAPHY I AM READY TO BUY
>ANYONE HERE HEARD OF LINK?
>SERGEY NAZAROV IS THE NEW DIVINE GOD

>> No.9525196

>imagine browsing /biz/ in real life