/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.9265185]

>capitalists will defend this

[Anonymous No.9265204]

Are you saying your better off without your smartphone? How about your internet?

Dumbass there's nothing wrong with wanting things that aren't "needed"

[Anonymous No.9265220]

>>9265185
>communists want to stagnate with need and crush desires

[Anonymous No.9265222]

He is ignorant for believing man's desires don't already overshadow his needs, it is innate. If it weren't true we would still be in caves.

[Anonymous No.9265241]

>communists think this is controversial and needs defending

[Anonymous No.9265260]

>jews will defend this

[Anonymous No.9265325]

>>9265204
>>9265220
>>9265222
>>9265241

>corporations blatantly admit to brainwashing you to buy stuff
>I’m ok with this

Wtf I love consumerism now

[Anonymous No.9265615]

Mindless consumerism boomerangs in the form of economic slavery and inability to pursue something fulfilling. Our lifestyles are way too inflated compared to other species and BAU (business as usual) is slowly killing the planet and 90% of species while we keep debating with our superiority complex over other species. If aliens visit us, they may get a good laught at our situation actually.

[Anonymous No.9265727]

>>9265325
consumerism =/= capitalism

[Anonymous No.9265772]

>>9265325
>>9265615
go live in the woods then faggot

you wont because you are just a whiner who never acts on their words

[Anonymous No.9265793]

>>9265185
imagine being so retarded that you admit you've been brainwashed

[Anonymous No.9265858]

OP DONT ATTAKCK CAPITALISHUM IT IS A VERY GOOD SYSYEM IF YOU DISAGREE YOU ARE A GOMMIE SCUM

Don't forget, kids. Creating false needs is actually a good thing. Say it with me: it is a good thing. You don't wanna be a communist right? Good... don't criticze papa capitalism again okay?

[Anonymous No.9265871]

>>9265325
>everyone told me to jump off a bridge
>I did it
>brainwashing

[Anonymous No.9265873]

>>9265772
Holy shit look at this a-ma-zing rebuttal on critique of capitalism. Live in the woods! Wow! Genius!

[Anonymous No.9265877]

>>9265727

Consumerism is the logical outgrowth of capitalism- creating new plastic shit so your advertising men brainwash the public to buying so you keep the hamster wheel of infinite economic growth spinning. It’s why we have planned obsolescence and shit designed to break.

[Anonymous No.9265893]

>>9265871

>advertising has no effect on people

[Anonymous No.9265896]

>>9265871
>manipulating people through PR to buy stuff they don't need
PR was invented by Edward Bernays, the nephew of Sigmund Freud. PR is literally the science of manipulation so consumers buy products.

[Anonymous No.9265898]

>>9265858

>sent from my iPhone X on Verizon's Fastest LTE network

I bet you're white and come from middle/upper middle class.

[Anonymous No.9265929]

>>9265898
Wow amazing counterargument

[Anonymous No.9265949]

who gives a shit. the goal is to get rich, then you literally don't care what other people do, because you have free reign of the entire planet.

[Anonymous No.9265967]

>>9265877
>planned obsolescence
People don't want use fucking Nokia 3310 for the rest of their life changing batteries? I literally can't even.

[Anonymous No.9265981]

>>9265929
The argument is you're being a cringey edgelord trying to rage against capitalism, while benefiting from it like the rest of us. You'll grow out of it kiddo.

[Anonymous No.9265994]

>>9265929
You didn't present an argument in the first place, you retarded raiding nigger.

[Anonymous No.9266004]

>commies actually believe the state controlled central banker economy we currently live under is "capitalism"

How do we kill them all bros?

[Anonymous No.9266012]

>>9265325
>muh needs
Your needs are already addressed. Go toss your computer out the window and live in a monastery if you want to be an ascetic.

[Anonymous No.9266014]

>>9265877
But you bought that "Fuck capitalism!" t-shirt on eBay, didn't you?

[Anonymous No.9266021]

>>9265873
Capitalism will literally never die.
Please kys already.

[Anonymous No.9266033]

>>9265185
there's not a difference anymore. nowadays "needs" are just the essentials for continuing to live, should you desire to do so

[Anonymous No.9266039]

>>9265877
Who gives a shit?
Plastic shit can be fun as fuck.
It's your fault you're a loser.

[Anonymous No.9266053]

>>9265873
the only reason you are capable of shitposting your infantile opinions right now is because of capitalism

quit crying you stupid commie faggot

[Anonymous No.9266077]

>>9265858
>Creating false needs is actually a good thing.
Value is subjective you self hating brainlet.
There certainly are things people didn't know they want because they haven't been created yet. New movies get created all of the time by corporations and people keep seeing them because they get pleasure from watching them.
Nothing wrong with this.
What a terrible fucking argument.
You people need to die.

[Anonymous No.9266096]

When are we going to gas all of these commies bros?

[Anonymous No.9266101]

>>9265893
>implying I said advertising has no effect on people
I'm telling you to stop playing the victim. The only person who has the responsibility of making your decisions is you. Ride a bike and shop at value village.

[Anonymous No.9266144]

>>9265873
>critique of capitalism
You’re always welcome to join gulag and stand in the breadlines as a follow up to your political retardation, faggot. It’s funny that the only thing communist brainlets can complain about capitalism is the abundance of everything.

[Anonymous No.9266152]

>>9266039
You can also still buy durable items meant to last decade, often meant to outlive you if you so choose. Commies can't handle the idea of personal choice though, they'd rather force everyone to be struggling to get food than see people "wasting" money on things they deem unnecessary. Pretty ridiculous really, the fact that we have so much excess that we don't have to even worry about needs should be an obvious positive.

[Anonymous No.9266175]

>>9265896

>0 replies to this post

>>9265967

iShit designed to break after 3 years. Thank you BASED consumerism

[Anonymous No.9266187]

>>9265896
>i can't think for myself so i copy+paste all my opinions from adam curtis documentaries
lmao brainlet cope

[Anonymous No.9266189]

>>9266152
>Pretty ridiculous really, the fact that we have so much excess that we don't have to even worry about needs should be an obvious positive.
THIS
When I debate with commies at most they can bring up food waste, which is hilarious.
Capitalism produces so much food that consumers just throw out what they don't want.

[Anonymous No.9266205]

>>9266004
>posting ancap memes
fucking kys

[Anonymous No.9266207]

>>9265896
>PR was invented by Edward Bernays, the nephew of Sigmund Freud. PR is literally the science of manipulation so consumers buy products.
This doesn't mean it's some crazy magic spell that makes everyone buy products.
I hear ads all of the fucking time, I don't buy everything they tell me.
Man, you're a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.9266212]

>>9266205
Communists don't belong on /biz/, leave and go back to your safe space on /pol/

[Anonymous No.9266217]

>>9265204
yes and yes

[Anonymous No.9266224]

>>9266205
Gas yourself desu

[Anonymous No.9266226]

>>9266217
>I'm better off without the internet
then stop posting you enormous faggot, go microwave your network card so we don't have to read your shitty opinions anymore

[Anonymous No.9266236]

>>9266175
>break after 3 years
t. brainlet

If that was true you couldn't buy a very first iPhone released in 2007 and still use it as a music player.

[Anonymous No.9266242]

>>9265325
Im ok with capitalism, Im against consumerism. Capitalism is human nature, consumerism is social engineering.

[Anonymous No.9266244]

>>9266175
>iShit designed to break after 3 years.
That's why people buy android phones.
I've had the same droid phone for 3 years, I've dropped it a million times and it still works fine and the screen isn't cracked.
Thank you BASED market competition.

[Anonymous No.9266248]

>>9266212

>if you criticize capitalism you’re a communist

We need to ban Americans t bh

[Anonymous No.9266260]

>>9266242
Honestly, the whole reason we have such a consumerist culture is central banking and keynesianism.
They think the economy is a car engine that needs to be "stimulated".

[Anonymous No.9266273]

>>9266248
>i hate capitalists but i'm not a communist
>GRRRR STOP CALLING ME A COMMUNIST OR I'LL GET TRIGGERED
nobody cares about what you call your special snowflake third positionist ideology, you are functionally equivalent to a communist so you will be called as such

[Anonymous No.9266283]

>>9266248
Lmao coping berniefag. Start off with paying your college debt, you mentally retarded subhuman.

[Anonymous No.9266310]

>burgers so brainwashed that they defend the ultimate kikery just because capitalism is a word that conveys THE GOOD in their mcfat clogged heads

[Anonymous No.9266319]

>>9266212
crypto is readying society for full communism, you'd understand if you weren't dense

>>9266224
lol cute

[Anonymous No.9266323]

>>9266310
>capitalism is bad because /pol/ told me so!
nice poorfag cope

[Anonymous No.9266334]

>>9266273

>everything that’s not my special version of Real Capitalism (TM) is communism
>there is no functional difference between an absolute monarchy, Nazi germany, the Soviet Union, or a social democracy

HUGE hmmmmmmmmmm

[Anonymous No.9266336]

>>9266319
>crypto is readying society for full communism,

[Anonymous No.9266350]

>>9266310
>faggot so angry at a shelf fully stacked with products made by different manufacturers, he had to make a post about his demented opinion on /biz/

[Anonymous No.9266370]

>>9266273
>You're with me or a commie!!!
A simple indication of low IQ (or mutt) are the polarization of ideas. People cannot fire their synapses fast enough to fathom there might be more than two options of any given selection

[Anonymous No.9266376]

>>9266319
>crypto is readying society for full communism
I wonder what would a secret police commissar do to your virgin ass if crypto was a thing when the Soviet bloc was still on the map.

[Anonymous No.9266391]

>>9265185
To "expand the desires" of the consumer would also be the goal of any socialist bureaucrat who wants higher.
In any situation where man comes into contact with man, there is incentive for one to try to make the other desire something from him.
I am not saying that this is good (though it's not itself bad), but it is misguided to consider this a problem of the private ownership of capital.

[Anonymous No.9266404]

>>9266370
>two options
>let the government handle "basic needs" for you and ban everything they see excessive and unnecessary

[Anonymous No.9266407]

>>9265185
I’ve spent the past couple years trying to force myself back to living a needs based life. It is the only way to become wealthy on a middle class income.

[Anonymous No.9266413]

>>9266370
Present an alternative other than, "buying things that are unnecessary is bad" because so far that has been the only anti-capitalist position taken in this thread.

[Anonymous No.9266415]

>>9266283
>25
>no debt
>easy 6 figure job and net worth
>fiance finishing med school as a surgeon
>still commie
maybe i just have empathy for those with less than me, like you

[Anonymous No.9266442]

>>9266334
>>9266370
poorfag cope

/biz/ is an ancap board. Go back to reggit lite (aka /pol/) where you can get butthurt about capitalism all you like.

[Anonymous No.9266454]

>>9266319
>a technology that promotes private transactions is readying people for anything but ancap
the absolute state of coping marxlets

[Anonymous No.9266461]

>>9265185

t.Ancap.

Anon, I don't defend it. I don't deny it. But I think you're full of shit if you think consumer culture is new - go read & fucking Seneca 2000 years ago complaining about soiboi faggots obsessed with fashion and haircuts, people spending too much time sunbathing and shopping etc. It's never been any different, technology just improved.

Communists try to smash humans into the shape they want. Doesn't work that way. That's why it ALWAYS fucks up. You know how you know I'm right? The biggest issue facing poor people in our society isn't starvation - it's fuck obesity.

[Anonymous No.9266476]

>>9266415
>finishing med school
>supposedly has time to shitpost about capitalism on the cryptocurrency trading section of a Kazakhstani fly-fishing BBS
lmao imagine lying like this to win a political debate

Very sad!

[Anonymous No.9266480]

>>9266415
You don’t have to LARP that hard to make it less obvious that you’re just a sophomore liberal arts faggot living in your mom’s basement.

[Anonymous No.9266488]

>>9266442

Post your portfolio ;^)

[Anonymous No.9266500]

>>9266488
poorfag COPE

[Anonymous No.9266508]

>>9266461
>The biggest issue facing poor people in our society isn't starvation - it's fuck obesity

thats bc corporations & banks are redlining grocery stores, leaving the poor in food deserts with only convenience stores & fast food to live off of

[Anonymous No.9266510]

>>9266004

I think your pic says it all anon.

[Anonymous No.9266516]

>>9266500

Cmon tough guy I want to see your huge gains ;^) You Sound like an Econ master

[Anonymous No.9266525]

>>9266391
>who wants higher.
who wants higher recognition, more resources at his disposal or an elevated position of power.
My apologies.


>>9266461
>your face when people use multiple ingredients in one meal

[Anonymous No.9266532]

>>9266516
i'm not going to spoonfed a coping /pol/fag marxist into prosperity.

sorry but you can stay coping on an anonymous imageboard and larping as a med student, it's more entertaining to me than helping you.

[Anonymous No.9266540]

>>9266413
>a federal reserve that manipulates fiat
>capitalism providing no answer to the needs of sick poor people (No I'm not defending minorities, but poor whites)
>outsourcing of work to the third world
>mass migration needed to partake in low skill labour

I'm not sure how many points you want to contend. There are many logical arguments against unfiltered capitalism

[Anonymous No.9266562]

>>9266532

>literally too stupid to read ID’s
>ancap

Oh god it’s retarded

[Anonymous No.9266564]

>>9266480
how else to know which shitcoin to blow my money on
>>9266476
lol i fucking wish i could go back to those days

[Anonymous No.9266569]

>>9266562
Is this how you cope with being poor?

[Anonymous No.9266587]

>>9266508
>leaving the poor in food deserts with only convenience stores & fast food to live off of
This simply isn't the case.
I sustain myself on a far cheaper diet than these "poor" people you speak about (spending far more on food than the vast majority of any humans to ever exist on this planet) and my diet is extremely healthy.
Even if the only food available to eat were of low quality, this does not make you fat. Eating too much of it makes you fat. Nobody is too poor to not afford to pay to put down their fork. People are just weak, will-less and nihilistic.

[Anonymous No.9266590]

>>9266207
No, but you have to remember most people are not nearly as smart as the people you talk to on this board. Most people cannot figure out that they are manipulated daily into making terrible financial decisions because no one ever taught them better. You might not care, but when enough people make terrible financial decisions it has wide ranging repercussions. The public education system in the US makes literal debt slaves. They removed Home economics and trades classes from lots of schools, so now those people never learned how to be self reliant and have to consume those services. They are also never taught basic financial management so they make terrible financial decisions. It’s sad and pathetic but it’s the way it is and it’s up to people like us to change it

[Anonymous No.9266591]

>>9266569

You’re literally too stupid to read unique poster IDs on 4chan lmao

[Anonymous No.9266605]

>>9266591
cope

[Anonymous No.9266610]

>>9266540
>unfiltered capitalism
>federal reserve

[Anonymous No.9266619]

imagine subscribing to communism because you feel guilty of being superior to the brainlets who aren't well off.
god how pathetic

[Anonymous No.9266622]

>>9266610

>muh REAL capitalism!!!!

You guys are as bad as commies

[Anonymous No.9266625]

>>9266508

Yeah, they should really leave them hungry and foodless in an actual desert like Mao or Stalin or every other communist did in history. You've proved my own damn point kek.

Look - it's been tried ok? It's been tried SO many times. It doesn't work. Capitalism works - even the current shitty system of quasi - feudal oligarchy works better than communism. Even all our shitty memecoins, we fucking did that without a bunch of state control - what does that tell you? We're closer to ending the banks than you ever were, without needing to fire a shot or open a gulag. Because we give people what they want or need, and the freedom to do it, even if they fuck it up. You fucks just try to make everyone equally miserable, before your own despotic tendencies take over and you start purging dissidents.

[Anonymous No.9266635]

>>9266605

Is this a bot?

[Anonymous No.9266647]

>>9266635
>be butthurt because people make more money than you
>disguise your resentment under "hating consumerism"
laughing at you coping communists

[Anonymous No.9266661]

>>9266625

>closer to ending the banks
>Soros, Goldman etc all getting into crypto

[Anonymous No.9266672]

>>9266619
whats the alternative? losing solidarity with the suffering of your fellow man? no thanks

[Anonymous No.9266681]

>>9266647

>you either follow my special snowflake ideoglogy or you’re a communist

This is literally a logical fallacy. Do you understand what I mean by that?

[Anonymous No.9266695]

>>9266647
you don't make more money than me

[Anonymous No.9266709]

>>9266622
What are you on about?
Speak in something other than a series of platitudes and buzzwords. Something does not become another thing just because you say "muh REAL thing".
You may make the argument that a capitalist system generally leads to a central bank (I disagree), but you may not make the argument that (this word is important) unfettered capitalism has central banks. It is literally a contradiction in terms.
The existence of a central bank controlling a fiat supply of money means that there is no capitalistic stateless market system of banking.

Your argument is, without exaggeration, literally the same as responding to "a shape with four sides is not a triangle" with "muh REAL triangles".

[Anonymous No.9266716]

>>9266591
My man

[Anonymous No.9266717]

>>9266672
teaching them to fish rather than restructuring society around their mediocrity

[Anonymous No.9266720]

>>9266695
Yes, I do, you make nothing, you're a med student without a license. Your income in 2017 was likely 0.

[Anonymous No.9266737]

>>9266709

So how do you define unfettered capitalism? Ancap?

[Anonymous No.9266738]

>>9266625
cuba seems to be doing fine, sankara did a pretty good job in his short time
i don't have much to say if you think crypto is ending the banks, seems like the biggest cope of all

[Anonymous No.9266752]

>>9266681
>h-he s-said something t-that goes a-against my handbook of logical fallacies so obviously communism is the answer
poorfag cope

[Anonymous No.9266754]

>>9266738
>cuba seems to be doing fine
oh dear. LOL

[Anonymous No.9266759]

>>9265204
>>9265898
in 1980 were people existentially depressed because cell phones and the internet did not exist?

are you depressed because jet packs don't exist? Does not having one take away from your quality of life?

>hur dur then get off your computer and get rid of your cell phone

once you have something, you don't want to lose it. Especially when your world is built upon it. But that doesn't mean your life was any worse without those things

it's also interesting how suicide rates continue to increase in industrialized countries. I wonder if sociological fragmentation by technology and social media contribute at all. I wonder if social media (a product of capitalism) has helped nourish these echo chambers and cultural shifts that conservatives seem to loath so much.

In 15 years corporate advertisers will be using genetic data to target all the right mental buttons. When you walk into a store maybe you'll be sprayed with an odorless aerosol that affects your neurochemistry in such a way as to want to buy something. This is the inevitable path.

You are corporate bootlicking cucks. Leftists worship the state and you unwittingly worship corporations. 95% of the things you spend money on do not increase your happiness in any tangible way beyond the dopamine spike upon initial purchase. This is by evolutionary design.

[Anonymous No.9266764]

>>9266738
>cuba seems to be doing fine,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA i can tell you've never actually been there

dumb amerishart.

[Anonymous No.9266767]

>>9266622

Except that actual communism demonstrably HAS been tried, while actual capitalism hasn't been really a thing since the 19th century. And the current system isn't btw - Capitalism (as in the actual economic philosophy) uses markets to shape everything. Not guns, guys in uniforms or government cooercian through force. There's a reason a lot of Anarchists realized we can already organize things without central authorities - businesses do it all the time. We can have businesses, mutual funds, charties, co-ops, worker-owned companies, anything in capitalism. Fuck, we can have communes full of socialists - you're welcome to do that so long as you don't impose it on anyone. All communism offers is the State, beating everyone into submission forever in the name of "justice".

[Anonymous No.9266790]

>>9266720
nah, check it again. i wifed up a med student so i only have 5 more years of this capitalist wagie bullshit.

[Anonymous No.9266800]

>>9266207
No, but advertisers use your unconcious desires to manipulate you into buying products. I just think this is very dubious. Why would that make me a communist? People on this board become very mad when you criticize an aspect of capitalism, yet I have never heard anyone pose an argument why manipulating the unconcious desires of people is a good thing

[Anonymous No.9266801]

>>9266790
>i wifed up a med student so i only have 5 more years of this capitalist wagie bullshit
beta cuckold cope

[Anonymous No.9266807]

>>9266759
hope you one day understand that all the basic society critique in the world wont make communism a nonshit solution

[Anonymous No.9266819]

>>9266738
>>9266754
i've lived places in america much worse

[Anonymous No.9266837]

>>9266737
I'd say that that would be the definition, yes.
You could also go with "the minimum amount of state required to enforce the protection of property rights". I believe this is contradictory, but many people would hold this as unfettered capitalism. In this system, no central bank exists either.
I'm sure you would concede that the west is less capitalistic (or of classical liberal philosophy) in mind and in political practice than it was a hundred years ago. We only got central banks just prior to world war one, and our banking system has only been in similar shape to its current form for about 75 years. I say hold that central banks are "not real capitalism" because for a large majority of the existence of liberalism and capitalism as mainstream political ideas (let's say 1700 to present), central banks did not exist, and have only come into existence since the public consciousness began to loathe capitalism and use laissez-faire as a pejorative.

[Anonymous No.9266843]

>>9265185
Incarnated by boomers

20s are always so mad about boomers while they are worse

[Anonymous No.9266847]

>>9266819
and? its still a fucked up nation compared to the aggregate of say the united states.
are these really the best arguments you have? just a cascade of baffling fallacies?

[Anonymous No.9266858]

>>9266752

>literally too stupid too understand he’s making illogical arguments and statements
>pretends it’s meaningless
>throws insults

You are hopeless anon. Ancap “”””””argumentation””””””” everyone

[Anonymous No.9266862]

>>9265772
>entire continents are being stripped of their ecosystems, including "woods"
>governments and corporations control most of the "woods" with arcane regulations and entitlements, dwindling number of places where setting up an innawoods cabin won't literally be grounds for arrest
>lmao just go live there

[Anonymous No.9266870]

>>9266759

Except that to counter the advertising, nose filter sales will be through the roof. You do know almost everyone here probably uses adblockers right? Free market provides. And you make a LOT of assumptions there - most real ancaps aren't too fond of giant corporations either. You know they receive more welfare money (subsidies) than the poor? In real capitalism most of em wouldn't survive - in your example, people would just shop elsewhere and without government money letting them expand faster than they could otherwise they'd fail.

[Anonymous No.9266878]

>>9266800
>advertisers use your unconcious desires to manipulate you into buying products is worse than being dictated by the state what products you can and cannot buy based on the arbitrary ideological grounds
cope harder, cuck

[Anonymous No.9266885]

>>9266767
Marxism has never been tried. Marx didn't believe in a forced revolution. Through dialectical processes the state would get absorbed by the people, which means that in communism the state and the people would be the same thing. The horror practices of the Soviets is a far cry from this. Also capitalism came to be in the 17th century, not the 19th. You are an AnCap so your ignorance is excused

[Anonymous No.9266888]

>>9266767

>the 19th century

You mean 14 hr work days, no benefits, employer literally guns you down if you strike, corporations literally bought the government, huge monopolies. That real capitalism?

[Anonymous No.9266895]

>>9266862
if you're too poor to buy a plot of land for 5 figures and build your own cabin, you're literally proving my point that everything you say is just poorfag cope.

[Anonymous No.9266903]

>>9266260

100% this.

[Anonymous No.9266907]

>>9266878
>It's either A or B
Let me finish it off with a cool statement: ur stuped

Seriously, why even bother posting?

[Anonymous No.9266912]

>>9266801
buddy, you take this beta cuckold cope life in a heartbeat if you could

[Anonymous No.9266919]

>>9266885
>Through dialectical processes the state would get absorbed by the people, which means that in communism the state and the people would be the same thing.
This can only make sense in your head, if you're severely retarded.

[Anonymous No.9266922]

>>9266912
Did you know having a wife that makes more money than you makes her significantly statistically more likely to cheat on you? Now you do.

[Anonymous No.9266934]

>>9266885
>Marxism has never been tried

[Anonymous No.9266941]

>>9266919
Well I'm not saying it is true, I'm just explaining. But I don't think you really know what dialectics are. Read some Hegel pleb :)

[Anonymous No.9266966]

>>9266941
>im not saying its true hehe im just sayin hehe
>but no real marxism tho
worm

[Anonymous No.9266973]

Communism is horrible, capitalism is better. Does that mean all aspects of capitalism are good? No.

Why is it so hard to think like this? Any criticism of capitalism =/= endorsing communism

Look at all these people who are proud of their ignorance.

[Anonymous No.9266978]

>>9266870
>nose filter sales
Surely you can see how ridiculous a society that would be. And surely you can think of a better futuristic example that won't be so easily countered.

the "real" capitalism bullshit is about as much of a meme as communism


>>9266878
I suppose you prefer the illusion of choice

[Anonymous No.9266980]

>>9266847
communism ain't coming by argument my guy
anyways, if you aren't too brain-addled to trace back three posts to the beginning of our chat, my specific point is that the poor areas currently in food deserts actually would be improved by cuba's base standard of living

[Anonymous No.9266988]

>>9266934
It is impossible to definitively prove that an ideology has been perfectly tried without critiquing the ideology itself.
It's a bad debate tactic to tell a Marxist (or anybody for that matter) that his ideological structure has been ideally implemented and failed. To them, if it had been perfectly implemented, then it could not have failed. It may feel good to point out what you believe is real communism, but they will never concede the point. You need to prove that their ideology, in theory, is simply incorrect, and that an attempt to implement it must of necessity fail.

[Anonymous No.9266994]

>>9266885

>that was state capitalism

[Anonymous No.9266995]

>>9266966
Let me rephrase it so brainlets like you also understand: Marx was wrong but what he said is not what Lenin did. Is this simple enough for you to understand? Or do you have the feeling you are fighting a culture war on the internet?

[Anonymous No.9267005]

>>9266980
>>9266847
i couldn't give a fuck about the aggregate. communism is important bc of improving the lives of the poor, discarded

[Anonymous No.9267009]

>>9266988
>It's a bad debate tactic to tell a Marxist (or anybody for that matter) that his ideological structure has been ideally implemented and failed. To them, if it had been perfectly implemented, then it could not have failed.
You are making the assumption I give a shit what Marxists think. I don't. Marxists have tried to "perfectly implement" their systems many times over the 20th century and failed with disastrous results. That alone is a scathing indictment of their ideology.

[Anonymous No.9267020]

>>9266907
>I-I'm not actually proposing anything, just taking the moral high ground hehe take that losers
>>9266941
Fuck off back to your pseudo-intellectual circlejerk, nigger. Reading some old fucks who died a century ago and were proven wrong has nothing to do with making money.

[Anonymous No.9267021]

>>9266625

[Anonymous No.9267036]

>>9266980
nigga people eat a ration of food per week in cuba, why the fuck would they flee to america if being in the lower side of america's social hierarhy wasnt an improvement for them?
why do i know cubans here in the first world who visit yearly with bags full of supplies?
>muh embargos tho
why cant they produce their own food?

tourists dont get to leave the golden cages so youd have NO CLUE what it really is to live in cuba

[Anonymous No.9267052]

>>9267009
You better care what they think, because only people who think Marxism works are likely to do what you and I believe will kill us if implemented.
The USSR would have never been created if Marxists, about whose opinions you do not care, had differing opinions.

>>9267020
>Reading some old fucks who died a century ago and were proven wrong has nothing to do with making money.
Are you false flagging capitalism?

[Anonymous No.9267075]

>>9266995
>Marx
Nobody gives a single fuck what his worm-infested rotten corpse wanted today.

[Anonymous No.9267086]

>>9267005
ah yes the communism that stagnates progress until everyone catches up at best and destrots civilization as usual and through its handicapped organization produces mass famines is great for poor people
because poor people are the most important demographic ever
discarded

[Anonymous No.9267087]

>>9265185
we need to stop being guilty about wealth and admit to what we ALL want... go look up some how to manifest videos on youtube and MANIFEST the life you desire and thanks to quantum mechanics that life will appear out of "nothing" itself. You do remember that deep down you are actually god, right anon?

[Anonymous No.9267093]

>>9267052
>You better care what they think
I don't. Marxists are going to stay Marxists regardless of how many times their ideology fails. If the failures of Marxism in the 20th century didn't convince them, why would I convince them with logical arguments? Thus there is no point in caring what they think because it's impossible to convince them.

If your ideology does not provide a clear contingency plan in the case that it does not get "perfectly implemented" because of something obvious like human nature, then it is a failed ideology. Period. Marxism is a failed ideology because it requires it to be "perfectly implemented" without taking into account that there is no viable path towards this.

[Anonymous No.9267102]

>>9266922
wow incredible, do tell me more. my education in statistics needs to be expanded on by a 4chan dork who says "significantly statistically" like he knows what the fuck that even means
anyways cheating rates for educated, no previous partner women are pretty low so i'll take my chances with that increase

[Anonymous No.9267112]

>>9267102
>anyways cheating rates for educated, no previous partner women are pretty low so i'll take my chances with that increase
cope

>who says "significantly statistically" like he knows what the fuck that even means
brainlet thinks p values are hard to understand. COPE.

[Anonymous No.9267118]

>>9267093
>If the failures of Marxism in the 20th century didn't convince them, why would I convince them with logical arguments?
It'll perhaps not work on all, but it works on some.
I agree with you in where you stand with respect to Marxism, I just think that all debates on the topic, given how they're currently handled, are essentially useless and futile, and simply make people angry and resentful.

[Anonymous No.9267123]

>>9267052
>proven wrong
>only coping poorfags screeching about abundance of "poor-quality products", manipulative PR and them not having any money

[Anonymous No.9267147]

>>9267123
It'd be better if they didn't want to destroy private property, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.9267157]

>>9266888

Kek, watch less television. That's oligarchy, not capitalism. I didn't say it was a capitalist utopis in the 19th century did I?

>>9266885

I didn't say it originated in the 19th century brainlet - I said the last gasp of it was around then. And the reason Marxism hasn't been tried is simple - it doesn't work. Marx had a LOT of issues in his theory. Take the pricing problem - he never solved that. Quantifying price from value is TOUGH. Adam Smith however did (partially). So guess where the Soviets (for example) had to get their pricing data from? Yep, watching capitalist markets.

The real demonstration that it's flawed is Lenin. He was a true believer, an idealist. Guy actually had a few smart things to say, I'll give him that (my favorite being the simple "Who? Whom?" in trying to figure out who benefits from something) And what happened? A bullet. Why? Human fucking nature. Capitalism decentralises our worst tendencies, communism by concentration of all power into a small elite focuses them. So I don't doubt that Lenin might have been great - but inevitably he got taken out by an opportunistic psychopath. And that'll happen - every time. Capitalism on the other hand mitigates that.

And whatever happened to Marx and his spontaneous workers uprising? Oh yeah, capitalism (even the shitty, fake version we have) made most of them sufficiently rich, satisfied and free. Lots of them started their own businesses. So now communists need to keep lowering the oppression bar to justify the endless revolution. Obvious power grab is fucking obvious - you fucks would be executing millions and brainwashing disobedient children with torture inside of a month if you won.

[Anonymous No.9267187]

>>9267005
>i couldn't give a fuck about the aggregate
I'm amazed that anyone can type this and think their opinion should then be listened to by anyone. The aggregate is the only thing that matters.

[Anonymous No.9267200]

>>9265185
have fun having literally no dreams, you fucking retarded faggot

be fucking thankful that we have something that vaguely resembles capitalism—if it were socialism, dime-a-dozen braindead useful idiots like yourself would be available in surplus and you'd have a 1/10 chance of not being sent to a fucking gulag where you could support the collective from its fucking bowels using only sweat and blood and broken bones instead of modern and future machinery because your failed ideology utterly shits the bed when it comes to supplying people with things that are needed to excel and live a long and prosperous life without undue injury or hardships, which you've quite literally just admitted
i think i'm now gonna go take my completely side-effect free, literally life saving medication, and eat some organic cereal and maybe some organic sausage before it goes bad, all in my heated home, made available to me at a reasonable cost because there exist people like me who demand more than fluoridated community water and a fucking icy, spider-ridden mud hut to exist in, you painfully stupid, mentally ill jackass

[Anonymous No.9267210]

>>9267009

Yep, this. Every partial success has occurred after they start readopting market mechanisms again. So I dunno, anarcho-syndicalists or something, they can claim to not have been tried. Agreed - I can have a decent argument about that. But full blown ML communists (who are the main variety again) are cult members at this point.

[Anonymous No.9267212]

>>9265185
the unabomber was right

the industrial revolution ruined humanity

[Anonymous No.9267214]

>>9265185
This is not capitalism, and the means to achieve this end was not capitalism. Nice try.

[Anonymous No.9267263]

I love when capitalistcucks try to virtue signal by pretending to care about all the people who died under communist regimes

if you cared about the suffering of a stranger, you'd be doing something about the 9500 children who will die of starvation today

[Anonymous No.9267298]

>>9267157

Literally everything I said happened. But I guess that was all just communist propaganda or something, right? The Pinkerton men never actually killed any union people huh.

I’m beginning to see how this works- only anything good can be attributed to capitalism, any negative aspect or side effect of it is something else’s fault. Thanks for the education comrade.

[Anonymous No.9267302]

>>9267263
Capitalists believe that their system increases the productive potential of mankind and raises people's ability to satisfy their desires. You are bad at arguing. Get better if you want to convince anyone of anything ever.

[Anonymous No.9267345]

>>9266508
Go to any inner city store. There are cheap healthy options a plenty. Anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is trying to make excuses for people who weren’t educated on, or don’t care enough to educate themselves on nutrition. Cheap chicken, cheap rice, and cheap veggies can be found in ANY AMERICAN SUPERMARKET.

[Anonymous No.9267360]

>>9267157
the tldr that every marxfag needs to understand is that true socialism/communism hasnt been tried cuz it cant, its a fairy tale.
best you can do is reform your theories

[Anonymous No.9267363]

>>9267187
noone here is listening to anyone but themselves, my guy

[Anonymous No.9267379]

>>9267263

What are you doing about it? Shitposting on a fucking Vietnamese knitting board? Enough with your self righteous drivel. Less children have died in poverty year after year for a long time. Capitalism at work. And of your alleged 9500, how many are in countries ruled by a "Peoples Liberation Front of Judea" or some other communist memename? Bet it's most of em.

[Anonymous No.9267383]

>>9267112
"significantly statistically" is gibberish, i'm trying to help you in your next argument
anyways i'm gonna bounce, what's your rec for a coin to drop a couple hundred in. if it doubles up i'll renounce my commie ways

[Anonymous No.9267395]

>>9267302
>tells someone they are bad at arguing
>while making a shit tier argument
You don't care enough about the abject suffering of another human being to donate a few dollars to save a life. You'd rather spend that money on a coffee and talk about ideology.

[Anonymous No.9267398]

>>9267360

Fucking exactly right. It's squaring a circle.

[Anonymous No.9267414]

>>9267263
>9500 children who will die of starvation today

9500 children where, in the western world? any sources for that?

[Anonymous No.9267443]

>>9267414
>western world
told on ya self right there bud

[Anonymous No.9267475]

>>9267443
what did you mean by that?

[Anonymous No.9267487]

>>9267363

Speak for yourself. I'd love to see a defence of communism that doesn't resort to the usual platitudes. How about a cogent point by point summary of Marx "Das Kapital" and how it wasn't applied to specific 20th century examples? Oh wait, I'm willing to bet more ancaps have read Marx than communists have, and we'd take that to bits kek

[Anonymous No.9267488]

>>9267395
whats the point of wasting my money on them if they cant even help themselves? if anything i'm prolonging their suffering

[Anonymous No.9267497]

>>9267414
6. Liberalism

This is where you stop browsing 4chan and grow up.

[Anonymous No.9267512]

>>9267298
>I’m beginning to see how this works- only anything good can be attributed to capitalism, any negative aspect or side effect of it is something else’s fault.
were literally freely conceding that capitalism isnt perfect (nothing is), and arguing that marxism is just worse if not the worst solution ever imagined. but you only know how to argue against strawmans because you've only learned how to apply canned rebuttals, so you deploy the good old leftist tactic of putting words in peoples mouths

[Anonymous No.9267523]

>>9267497
thank you for that convincing argument, i am now a liberalist

[Anonymous No.9267525]

>>9267414
does it matter? You fags will harp on and on about the millions killed under Mao and Stalin, but it's nothing more than a cheap talking point. You could have saved a life today

[Anonymous No.9267544]

>>9267525
>You could have saved a life today

how?

[Anonymous No.9267558]

>>9267488
yes I'm sure a child in a malaria afflicted area would rather you not shell out a few dollars for a mosquito bed net because it will only prolong their suffering

[Anonymous No.9267617]

>>9267558
a child in a malaria afflicted area is most likely a child in africa. you know, the africa that is exploding in population size because the developed world is obstructing natural population size controls.
charity only enables the birth of more children who will inevitably suffer

[Anonymous No.9267622]

>>9267544
https://www.effectivealtruism.org/articles/introduction-to-effective-altruism/
https://www.givewell.org

[Anonymous No.9267637]

>>9267558
lol fuck off you cunt. africans should have been genocided hundreds of year ago, they are a totally useless people. less intelligent and sentient. only the weak and insecure would defend them

the great irony is that 'aiding' africans with untold billions has done nothing but create hundreds of millions more people who are doomed to a future of poverty and starvation. congrats on this

[Anonymous No.9267663]

>>9267617
common misconception propagated people like you trying to paint a narrative that fits your worldview

https://www.gapminder.org/answers/will-saving-poor-children-lead-to-overpopulation/

[Anonymous No.9267686]

>>9267523
No problem.

[Anonymous No.9267689]

>>9267637
should we euthanize all white people below a certain threshold of intelligence?

[Anonymous No.9267695]

>>9265185
>capitalism
>judaism
Ovens.

[Anonymous No.9267698]

>>9267617

If you really want to fight against overpopulation you should lead by example and kys.

But beyond that, poverty in Africa is a consequence of socialist policies not capitalism, people who don't understand that shouldn't be talking about economics.

[Anonymous No.9267733]

>>9267663
a fucking video are you serious?
>The poor families suffer from high child mortality, and the largest population growth occurs where people are poor. Parents in richer communities expect their children to survive, which is one of the reasons they decide to have fewer babies.
>Saving poor children is an important factor in ending both poverty and population growth. The death of children is not holding back population growth. It is one of the reason poor people still have many children.
except charity doesnt make them wealthy, it just keeps them alive. they are poor, reproduce like the r-selected animals they are, and are artificially kept alive so nature doesnt punish their inability to not be miserable.

[Anonymous No.9267742]

Why do communists want everyone to starve so badly?

[Anonymous No.9267745]

>>9267698
>If you really want to fight against overpopulation you should lead by example and kys.
in awe at the absolute argumentative power displayed by this

[Anonymous No.9267766]

>>9266273
Absolutely rekt

[Anonymous No.9267774]

>>9267663
YOU CANT MAKE THE LOWER CLASSES RICH BY SIMPLY THROWING MONEY AT THEM. throwing money at niggers in the lower classes to bring them into the middle class inst going to somehow change their biology. poor people are poor generally because they are unintelligent and unresourceful. africa has been given over 800 billion dollars in aid over the last 100 years.

what sort of intelligent person thinks
>you know what, i cant feed myself and the only water available to us has parasitic worms living in it... lets have 6 kids!

[Anonymous No.9267775]

>>9267733
it keeps them alive so they can receive an education. Do you know how many people cannot attend school because of infectious disease or something as simple as not having a light to study?

do you think we should kill off western people who's IQ is below a certain threshold?

[Anonymous No.9267800]

>>9267298

Did I say it didn't happen? Pretty sure I said that it was an oligarchy - literally a total failure mode where the free market had been supplanted by violence. And, as I said, that's where capitalism really stopped being a thing - the state allowed limited forms from then on. Thing is though, there's a TON of examples of successful capitalism - even partial capitalism is more functional. You're REALLY trying hard to twist that into, what, some doublespeak bullshit defence like you commies use? Kek, such cope.

See, this is the problem you can't overcome and why your kind always has to resort to gulags. You have a religion. I have an economic system. You have faith in a utopian ideal. I have an appraisal of an imperfect but fairly successful reality. You need to cover everything up, justify it or explain it away. I say "Yeah, that did suck and that's why I think we need to do better". Your safe spaces make you weak and unable to change or adapt. I literally love competition and it'll stimulate more growth.

[Anonymous No.9267811]

>>9267775
>do you think we should kill off western people who's IQ is below a certain threshold?

yes!

[Anonymous No.9267830]

>>9266310

Not even a burger you moron. The groupthink really got to you huh?

[Anonymous No.9267853]

>>9267774
maybe give this a read.

Intelligence is almost entirely determined by two things. Genetics and early development. Genes are not deterministic unless environment is held constant. If your fetus was transported to sub saharan africa and raised there, your IQ would likely be 10-15 points lower than it is, because of malnutrition and improper care.

[Anonymous No.9267858]

>>9265204
>It's good that corporation try to make us want things we don't need so they can suck us dry
Fucking retard. He didn't say they were just filling existing desires. The whole idea is to manufacture a culture that always wants more and newer shit they don't need rather than allow it to evolve organically.

[Anonymous No.9267878]

>>9267745

Answer the second bit.

Fuck I love it when we get raided by commies, it's like being slowly whipped to death with wet noodles. It's pathetic and lame, but at the same time hilarious.

[Anonymous No.9267924]

>>9267811
Let's say your little brother had down syndrome. He would likely not be able to survive without financial aid from your family or the state. Obviously, you feel compelled to care for your brother. You share DNA. Basic kin selection. But that's a bit of an evolutionary glitch, because his DNA is unfit for reproduction.

Would you allow your brother to go through life without financial assistance?

[Anonymous No.9267932]

>>9267775
my phone died while typing up a response and i'll take that as a sign that i should abandon you and your retarded responses

also killing all people below a subaverage iq threshold will affect blacks the most

[Anonymous No.9267960]

>>9265325
>>I’m ok with this
Yeah because I make money when they sell shit to normies and I'm not a braindead faggot to fall for it

[Anonymous No.9267967]

>>9267742

Because they have issues anon. They think some abstract concept of equality (as THEY define it) is more important than actual people. It's the same reason they go on about the starving children & never do anything, while capitalists (and church going ones at that) donate more to charity than lefties by an order of magnitude or so. They're a joke anon. Fucking children that won't grow up.

[Anonymous No.9267985]

>>9267853
>your IQ would likely be 10-15 points lower than it is, because of malnutrition and improper care.

so only 110? as opposed to the native 65 iq?

also have you ever thought about this: why do people in extreme poverty reproduce? why are they even allowed to reproduce? it is extremely immoral to bring a human being into the world under impoverished conditions, and they should be held responsible.

>>9267924
>obviously, you feel compelled to care for you brother.

thats where you're wrong, because any sensible person would have the baby aborted as soon as they discovered the dysfunction, which fortunately can be done during the fetal stage thanks to modern science.

also a down syndrome person is not a sentient individual. imo allowing a down syndrome child to continue to live is irresponsible. its a shitty thing to do but better than the alternative

[Anonymous No.9268010]

>>9266941
Hegel was a charlatan, faggot. KYS for even mentioning that illuminati faggot

[Anonymous No.9268047]

>>9267497
>>9267686
lead by example—and above all, live your life with modern-day liberal ideas
come back in 2 years and let us know how it feels to be the penniless cuck that you'll be able to uninhibitedly blossom into, just like what one might imagine your ideologically misled furry avatar doing—
growing joyless, self-inhibiting, and emotionally detached, following and keeping up with liberal insanity, spending all of his withering energy in being cautious of stepping on snowflakes instead of bettering himself
the days merging into one-another
before,
one day,
he dies of boredom
before he grows ill
and literally dies as a result of his own self-imposed over-regulation,
causing him to hesitate in saying or doing anything
his pink fur losing pigment, and beginning to crawl
his rotting corpse, blooming—
—blossoming with maggots
as happy now as he was when he was alive

[Anonymous No.9268050]

>>9267924
>>9267775
>do you think we should kill off western people who's IQ is below a certain threshold?
Yes

Even if my biological relative is retarted I know in agerate that subsdizing low iq welfare states and people is only kicking the problem down the road. And nature’s iron law will clean pool takeing more lives with it then if didn’t subsidized geneic trash in first place

[Anonymous No.9268076]

iceland aborts 99% of down syndrome children

[Anonymous No.9268095]

>>9266995
>culture war

Ummm.....commie? You raided US remember? We're here to shitpost and shill each other on our latest shitcoins and occasionally stocks or something. You literally came HERE to argue - so I think it's safe to say you're fighting a culture war.

You do know you're not on plebbit right? We didn't raid you? You're feeling ok? Not seeing spots or anything?

[Anonymous No.9268103]

>>9265185
(((Mazur)))

Op you need to do some more homework to uncover the real question here

D-

[Anonymous No.9268113]

>>9267985
it's extremely immoral to bring a child into this world under any circumstances, especially when you cannot predict their life outcome with certainty, and especially when you have no way of knowing whether or not there is a hellish afterlife that entails being stabbed by ghouls for all eternity. You're operating on probabilities

aborting the child is the most sensible thing to do. But you can't rewind the past. So let's say both your parents pass away, it's just you and your downie brother. He is reliant upon you. You will allow him to die/euthanize him? If you say yes then I will applaud you for logical consistency, but for some reason I very much doubt that's what you'd do in such a situation.

[Anonymous No.9268151]

>>9267800

>capitalism isn’t an ideology

[Anonymous No.9268213]

>>9266242
Trendsetting also sucks the natural selection out of consumerism.

[Anonymous No.9268236]

>>9268113
>You will allow him to die/euthanize him?

yes absolutely, of course it would be a cold decision i would prefer not to make altogether, but the answer is yes.

this scenario you have painted is silly anyway, down syndrome will be eliminated in the future and is already disappearing thanks to eugenics in iceland, denmark, the netherlands. a quick google search away

[Anonymous No.9268246]

>>9268113

Why not? In Communist China it's common. And Communist Cambodia did a lot of that. Oh and the USSR also practiced eugenics. And Planned Parenthood, back when the Left in the US were still openly pro that stuff. Again, communists killed FAR more than anyone else.

And what a contrived hypothetical example that is - as he said, these days that's an abortion (something the Left promotes kek). Yeah, I'm sure he'll hit his brother with a brick or something, totally. By your argument, every woman happy to abort children because it doesn't suit their career should be consistent and kill em if she wants to go back to work and they're school age. What's the difference?

[Anonymous No.9268278]

>>9268151

I didn't say that, nice try though. Why do commies need to plant or twist words in order to win arguments, while never answering any points raised?

[Anonymous No.9268344]

>>9268246
without financial aid he will die, period. It's just a thought experiment to gauge moral consistencies.

>>9268236
eugenics are great. I say we provide germ line gene therapy to every mentally incapable person on earth. Mass alleviation of suffering and more functional societies. I wonder how many ethnocentrists will detest because their worldview necessitates hating another group.

[Anonymous No.9268427]

>>9266101
Implying free will exists. We are a product of our environment and our brain chemustry interactions

[Anonymous No.9268450]

>>9268344
you make surgeries and operations available to people, nigger
you don't just go around having the state or whoever enforce your beliefs, no matter how good you think they are or they seem to be

[Anonymous No.9268497]

Every caputalist fag in this thread should be against crypto because banks and their abioity to print as mych money as they want is the reason we had has such quickly devealoped economic growth. Unfortunately we will eventually destroy ourselves with this extreme need to consume as much of the environment as ohydically possible.

[Anonymous No.9268531]

Every capitalist fag in this thread should be against crypto because banks and their ability to print as much money as they want is the reason we gave had such quickly devealoped economic growth. Unfortunately we will eventually destroy ourselves with this extreme need to consume as much of the environment as physically possible.

[Anonymous No.9268578]

I gonna devealop a tasteless food ingredient that tricks our stomach into thinking we are never full. I think any food diatribution business will love to add it to their food to increase demand. The reason people stop eating is because they feel content after all.

[Anonymous No.9268645]

>>9268278

>you have a religion
>I have an economic system

[Anonymous No.9268673]

>>9265727
>I-it's not real capitalism!
The absolute state of good goyim.

[Anonymous No.9268690]

>>9265185
Damned commies are at it again! Lucky that in our free and open capitalist society we at least get taught about the communist system in our universities, so that we understand what it's about. God bless the USA! Capitalism gives us the best healthcare in the world! Just remember, if we don't satisfy our desires and pay the kikes all our shekels, then the world will descend into chaos!! Go Israel!!

[Anonymous No.9268731]

>>9265185
Desires are objective. Needs are subjective. Desires are a more rational basis for decision making.

[Anonymous No.9268934]

>>9268731

>food, water, shelter are subjective

The absolute state of consumerist brainwashing

[Anonymous No.9268949]

>>9266323
/pol/ is highly for capitalism.

[Anonymous No.9269247]

>>9268949

*regulated capitalism

[Anonymous No.9269269]

>>9268934
Beyond those things how do you know what somebody 'needs?'

[Anonymous No.9269633]

>>9269247
>wanting regulated capitalism
It's like you want to ignore that America was made great by con artistry and the smart vastly outwitting the poor

[Anonymous No.9269864]

>>9269633

Unregulated capitalism is just as cancerous as communism, but in different ways.

[Anonymous No.9269942]

>>9268673
>have a single entity control the supply of money
>any attempt to start your own bank and mint your own coin is met with force of the state
>this is somehow real capitalism

[Anonymous No.9269987]

>>9269864
>24 posts by this ID
You have quite a lot to say and have failed to suggest one solution to any problem, real or imaginary.

[Anonymous No.9270082]

>>9266508
Fast food is more expensive than healthy foods these days, retard. A Big Mac costs $5 these days. Go away you out of touch retard.

[Anonymous No.9270088]

>>9266152
>9266152
the problem is that people who dont indulge in hyperconsumerism have to sacrifize their lifes for the degenerates.

I have to work so much so you can be a worthless subhuman

now go kys

[Anonymous No.9270097]

>>9265896
Ive been manipulated ... victim onions speak.

[Anonymous No.9270110]

>>9265898
Is there any doubt.

[Anonymous No.9270117]

somebody settle this stupid shit already people are dying

[Anonymous No.9270439]

From what I've seen the Berniebros are by far the worst about this shit, filling their houses with funko pops, getting the loathsome capitalist symbols tattooed on their skin, and crying if you call their marvel movies stupid and empty. If we're slaves then everyone is far more complicit in it than anyone will ever be willing to admit.

[Anonymous No.9270561]

Just passing by to post this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s

Every faggot browsing this board should watch this.

[Anonymous No.9270566]

>>9269987
As it always is with "third position-ism"

Lots of critique, no solutions worth the resources to experiment with. Glad many of these people are relegated to dustbins of history.

>>9269864
Legends in medicine, science, engineering, were all made when people were allowed freedom to invent and think. Life lessons were taught by traveling swindlers before a nanny state had to come along and tell everyone to play nice. America was great when people could quite literally sell snake oil in the streets, put freaks on display at the circus and electrocute elephants to death to say fuck you to your enemies.

[Anonymous No.9270584]

>>9270561
I have, and see no issue with a hyper-marketplace of ideas competing for dominance over the larger zeitgeist when those who are smart enough are able to profit from it.

[Anonymous No.9270730]

>>9270584
That's not even what the video is about. It's more about modern companies abusing the major flaw of capitalism - human psychology, resulting in them making the market illogical and having it demand things that shouldn't actually be demanded in an efficient market. Exactly the issue that the OP is talking about - "we must shift America from correct market evaluation to illogical desires that in turn make the market profitable but illogical" and that is achieved by directly interfering with the flawed human psychology through advertising. Regardless whether you're a communist or capitalist, you should be opposed to this because it goes against both sides' values at the same time.

[Anonymous No.9270932]

>>9270730
The problem is that neither Capitalism nor Communism could've predicted the sheer amount of information and the speed at which it moves today. Nor that major players would eventually come to either control this information in it's entirety or be able to influence the opinions of people on such a massive scale as we see. You're never going to fix or solve the problem of flawed human psychology, ever, therefore it's really just in the best interests of the whole to participate in the dialectic until someone smarter than all of us can put forward a better system that can cope with the dimension of modern information collection and sharing along side the systems that have proven to work.

This however doesn't involve idolizing Lenin or Mussolini or Hitler any other dead fuck who's fastest mode of communication was the telegraph.

[Anonymous No.9270992]

>>9270932
You're talking like we need a whole restructure when the solution is incredibly simple - ban advertising. That's it.
If murder and theft can be banned, which in turn actually do make the market more efficient by allowing stores to actually exist, then why can't advertising as well?

[Anonymous No.9271219]

>>9270992

Define advertising.

[Anonymous No.9271421]

>>9270992
I'm not, the transition from feudal lords to collectives with capitalism was marked by the serfs no longer needing lords to function. The change wasn't radical, nor necessitated violent revolution until the less foresighted lords attempted to wrest control over the serfs by then the change in systems was already established.

Advertising isn't going anywhere, if anything it's become stupidly synonymous with the information era that too many beneficial services rely on it. The general public needs to become accustomed and educated with it and like the automobile, telephone, agriculture, fire, will in time learn how to handle and effectively use it. Until then there will always be growing pains.

[Anonymous No.9271447]

>>9271219
Watch the video, it has a perfect definition for that.

But if you're too lazy, exploiting holes in human psychology (such as sexual drives, colors intended to invoke a deep instinct, specific sounds, using model celebrities and so on) to increase the demand of a product artificially since the product wasn't demanded enough without them and the company couldn't turn a profit producing it. This then turns the company into a cancerous growth of the market that shouldn't actually exist but made its way there through abuse of an underlying error in the market's immune system.

Keep in mind that this is NOT spreading exposure for you product since such spreading can be done through emotionless listing of what you're selling in a simple text, as was done before advertising existed and as is shown in the video. The moment you start adding flavor and emotion to your list to intentionally influence and abuse a flaw in human psychology is the moment it turns into advertising, and in turn turns any sale generated through this into a market inefficiency. This is the sole reason why there are brands that offer the EXACT SAME material value to other brands, but are more expensive purely due to the brands themselves.

I don't even know why I just typed this when this board and crypto in general is a direct proof of all of that - coins do not gain value based on their utility, they gain value based on how much they're being shilled

[Anonymous No.9271486]

>complain about fat ameriburgers
>complain about soiboys
>complain about shills
>defends the reason why these things exist
Make u tink

[Anonymous No.9271560]

>>9271447
I don't disagree with Curtis's investigations, in fact yes I agree people should watch the video, this is part of the education process on hyper-information and advertising. A full reaction backwards into the dark ages is a band-aid over the unstoppable movement of technology and history

[Anonymous No.9271571]

>>9265260
Capitalist utopia isn’t superconsumption. It’s superproduction. Productivity is valued over consumption or else there is nothing to consume.

[Anonymous No.9271829]

>>9271447

So if we have a guy standing in a high foot traffic area with a megaphone telling everyone to come to his dragon dildo store on third street do we arrest him? What separates "psychological tricks" and simply doing whatever it is that draws more attention to you than your competitors, even if it's as simple as putting a sign up on your building if they don't? You would need to have an incredibly tightly controlled society to limit advertising to simple text lists, and even then the first name on the list would have a dramatic advantage over the last even if you could successfully clamp down on everything, which is largely what Google has become anyway. I hate ads as much as anyone here but in practice the term is inherently vague enough that it's similar to trying to legally ban pornography, where pretty much all attempts have ended up throwing out the baby with the bath water. I'll give the documentary a watch later, maybe it addresses this.

[Anonymous No.9272815]

>>9267112
I'm loling to your cope
>inb4 cope
That comment would be what I call cope
Cope more.
Kek at this cope.

[Anonymous No.9272872]

>>9265204
good goy

[Anonymous No.9272970]

>>9269633
if the smart really wanna outwit the poor, they convince them that socialism is all about protecting the weak and then they ride the slavetrain that it creates into having vast power and control as the protected ruling elite that makes passive income off of taxation while actual development and innovation through competition that creates products and services that people want stagnates

>>9272872
fucking idiot
lead by example

[Anonymous No.9272999]

>>9265185
i will. no desire,no working hard. no working hard, no innovation. no innovation, no progress. no progress, no country.

[Anonymous No.9273012]

>>9266635
cope

[Anonymous No.9273268]

>>9270566

>Legends in medicine, science, engineering, were all made when people were allowed freedom to invent and think. Life lessons were taught by traveling swindlers before a nanny state had to come along and tell everyone to play nice. America was great when people could quite literally sell snake oil in the streets, put freaks on display at the circus and electrocute elephants to death to say fuck you to your enemies.

[Anonymous No.9273449]

>>9266591
china, where the majority of this has been happening, is a communist country with "special economic zones" that, for the longest time, have been inhabited by a completely subdued population that will not simply stand up for themselves and demand that their employers pay them more fucking money and engage in seeking places that provide them with better pay and better hours because they either fear that if they do their shithole communist government will jail and torture them for civil disobedience or they feel like their situation is so hopeless that they simply give up trying early and feel like they're being given miles when living conditions improve even a little tiny fucking bit
some of them are so used to getting put through hell and kept in restraints for their entire lives that they simply don't say or do anything to stand up for themselves when they're made to work absurdly long hours for absurdly low pay
they literally eat food fried in shit oil
they quite literally eat and produce oil that has been separated—in a rather mediocre fashion—from fecal matter and sewer waste, and they just roll with the selling and consumption of it
this
THIS
is what fucking communism does to fucking people
they don't demand high standards
they don't really own things
they don't live with proper sanitation
they don't look after themselves
they don't look out for each-other
they live in constant fear
and they just let whatever happens, happen
this is the inhumanity of collectivism
you don't feel others' pain, and because nobody is truly able to look after you and feel what you damn well know that you feel but yourself, you become numb to the concept when you neglect your health and well-being from an early age
and so all that anybody gets is an early death sentence to cancerous chemicals, and food COATED IN SHIT

[Anonymous No.9273553]

>>9265185
Only retards fall for advertisement.
And if you want to make bank, you target retards.

Exploiting the retards until we can slaughter them all through magicscience is the game, OP.
Play it well, and play it fast, since in my eyes you are one of the retards and on the kill list.

[Anonymous No.9273589]

>>9273449

>America, a country with unrestrained capitalism has a populace that accepts workers having no rights, thinks its normal to work 6 days a week 14/hrs a day, can expect to get gunned down by private armies if they strike, gets no benefits like vacations or sick days, and gets payed in made up money (company scrip). THIS is what laissez faire capitalism does to a country.

>t. 1880

[Anonymous No.9273678]

>>9267475
>all lives matter
They don't.

[Anonymous No.9273728]

>1900 A.D. 90% of US self-employed
>2018 A.D. 2% of US self-employed

Well and truly under the yoke.

[Anonymous No.9273864]

>>9265772
Actually taking initiatives as we speak. Writing a draft for setting up a Decentralised Spiritual Eco-village (DESECO) with economic sustainability.

You are left to continue to swallow the capitalism pill with economic slavery, chronic stress and eternal dissatisfaction. Good luck

[Anonymous No.9273879]

>>9270088
>you make me work harder
Or you could live more frugally, me buying some frivolous things I like has nothing to do with your choices, such an argument would only apply to welfare leeches who you'really keeping up through taxes and I would wager that I paid more than you in taxes last year.

[Anonymous No.9273899]

>>9266759
that doesnt make them any less useful.

[Anonymous No.9273962]

>tfw used to be bitter toward the rat race
>tfw start to blame myself instead of others
>tfw no longer have any debt or liabilities
>tfw pay for everything with cash

feels good

the only way capitalism/consumerism has any power over you is if you let it. I could lose my job tomorrow and give zero fucks, whereas most people literally need every dollar from their paycheck just to pay bills/stacks of debt. It's absurd.

just don't be enslaved and you're free to be a productive member of society

[Anonymous No.9274019]

>>9273589
you're literally comparing 1880 to the modern era
though, i fail to recall the incident when a company's private army killed someone who refused to work in a capitalist society

china was quite literally HANDED modern production equipment that a determined individual—of which there were likely many—could have duplicated, and, given a free economy, used to build modern houses all over the entire country
instead, growth was confined to centralized, giant cities that they told and still tell various small towns, one-by-one, that they are moving to—by force
and improving your conditions isn't necessarily about worker rights, you dumb fuck
if someone were to offer you a job to go work in a cramped coal mine using manual tools for 14 hours every day for lousy pay, would you do it?
no?
well, good thing it's a capitalist country—because you don't have to! if you've got other skills, you can put them to use, like the millions of other americans that didn't work in a coal mine or a factory in 1880! if you want to work in a coal mine or a factory, though, then you can try to find another company to mine coal or whatever at—one that offers better pay, and maybe provides you with superior, more efficient tools that are less taxing on you!
in a capitalist society, if the work is killing the workers, they can simply leave
if the government controlled most of the resources, though, do you think that they would be more inclined to invent a new and less stressing way to perform the tasks—or do you think that they would be more inclined to simply train soldiers to point guns at everyone to get them to do shit, while the new invention takes its dear sweet time to arrive?
invididuality and capitalism allows society to thrive on sparks of genius and crazy dreams
collectivist societies don't even get to the point of thinking of that
they dream of fields full of food to harvest—because they have none

[Anonymous No.9274192]

>>9274019

>The Homestead strike, also known as the Homestead Steel strike, Pinkerton rebellion, or Homestead massacre, was an industrial lockout and strike which began on June 30, 1892, culminating in a battle between strikers and private security agents on July 6, 1892.[3] The battle was one of the most serious disputes in U.S. labor history, third behind the Ludlow Massacre and the Battle of Blair Mountain.

Yeah it’s not like monopolies and cartels ever formed to suppress worker power and rights. Good luck with that new job when you’re blacklisted. Maybe if we had some regulatio- oh wait that’d be socialism, can’t have that. I don’t know what’s happening to this country- first they demand Saturday off, now a 40 he work week! This socialist mindrot has got to go.

[Anonymous No.9274706]

>>9273268
>Thinking this is exclusive to MAGApedes
The United States has always been reactionary libertarian, it's nothing new.

[Anonymous No.9275076]

>>9274192

Holy fuck, this has been heavily debunked throughout the whole thread as having anything to do with Capitalism, and you're still trying to use this one incident for a whataboutist defence of China. How much doublethink can you engage in?

Commies need the fucking helicopter ride already. You fucks would be sending everyone to gulags within a day if you took power. You're literal scum that worship mass murders. Actually kys.

[Anonymous No.9275190]

>>9266004
>>9266205
>>9266212
>>9266248
>Browsing This shithole during real Mutt hours

[Anonymous No.9275240]

>>9265185
The only person that knows where the line is drawn between what they need and want is that person themselves.

It's time we move away from letting government entities decide what's needed and what's desired.

[Anonymous No.9275307]

>>9265325
To use Watterson to push anticapitalist / anticonsumerist sentiment (and in opposition, to promote socialism) is to not understand Watterson.

[Anonymous No.9275368]

>>9268151
The free market is as organic and as free from ideology as you can get. Belief that we should choose to opt for the free market is an ideology.

[Anonymous No.9275394]

What a shit thread. I hope you commu faggots are larping because your arguments are actually retarded and low IQ.

[Anonymous No.9275454]

>>9265871
>>9266101
You're underestimating how omnipresent advertisement and consumerist culture are. It's naive to think they are still fully within our control.
>>9266236
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-17/mobile-phones-engineered-with-built-in-obsolescence/5818410
This doesn't mean every single phone will break, of course, but they're definitely made to last not as long as they potentially could.

[Anonymous No.9275471]

>>9267157
>communism by concentration of all power into a small elite
>communism
>concentration of all power into a small elite

[Anonymous No.9276030]

Why does this low iq commie bait thread have so many replies?

[Anonymous No.9276055]

>>9267263
>if you cared about the suffering of a stranger, you'd be doing something about the 9500 children who will die of starvation today

Who die in counties with extremely unfree markets?

Fuck you, you piece of shit

[Anonymous No.9276080]

>>9267622
Bringing capitalism to those countries with save MUCH MORE lives than simple donations would.

[Anonymous No.9276104]

>>9275454
>but they're definitely made to last not as long as they potentially could.
Because it would cost a fuckton more to make them that long lasting.
These phones would get priced out of the market.