What kind of programmers are in demand? Aspie-like geniuses that can do insane algorithms or just stable, clear-minded people that can approach problems effectively? What does it take to be a successful CS-person?

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Anonymous Sun Sep 13 17:14:10 2015 No.892357 [Reply] [Original]

What kind of programmers are in demand?

Aspie-like geniuses that can do insane algorithms or just stable, clear-minded people that can approach problems effectively?

What does it take to be a successful CS-person?

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 17:21:04 2015 No.892364 Take a look at this chart and see where you stand. Improve in all areas where you have a shitty rating (and yes, this means all rows of the chart, don't skip just because you think it is meaningless) http://sijinjoseph.com/programmer-competency-matrix/

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 17:23:14 2015 No.892366

>>892357

programmers are a dime a dozen.

people that can work autonomously are in huge demand, especially in the lucrative small and middle-sized businesses.

If I plop a robot on your table and I say, "it should do this and that, write an AI for it. you have 3 months" you should be able to do it. You should be able to come up with the specs, the architecture and the design, and then tell me that you need 3 coders and another sensor on the bot.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 17:24:57 2015 No.892368 coding for a start up might pay off in the end.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 17:26:58 2015 No.892370 >>892364 that's garbage. anything below level 3 is amateur level.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:07:23 2015 No.892423 >>892370 You'd be amazed what IT departments will hire.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:22:26 2015 No.892443

>>892357
Full stack guys. The issue with most programmers is that after a few years in the industry you're too used with working on just one part of the product. If you're able to do data, processing, service integration and frontend, then you're the real deal. But at that point why would you even have a job when you can build your own product from ground up. Guys like these don't stay in the industry too long, so theres always a demand.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:23:41 2015 No.892445 >>892357 Entrepreneur-programmers

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:40:04 2015 No.892474 >>892423 IT departments hire based on more than just programming skills.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:41:45 2015 No.892477 >>892357 COBOL.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 18:56:28 2015 No.892495

I'm a salesforce developer with a little over 3 years experience making just north of $100k in Denver, CO.

A lot of companies are moving a lot of the customer and partner-facing shit to the cloud and Salesforce offers them a decent platform to get started. Then they're locked in and need a developer to make the experience actually good.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 19:29:28 2015 No.892540

>>892370
>that's garbage. anything below level 3 is amateur level.

I guess you haven't interviewed people lately.

Even a level 2 person can easily make $100k. A level 3 person more. So any programming position offering less money than $100k a year would be lucky to get a level 2 person never mind a level 3 person. They'll probably get a level 1, maybe even a level 0.

Who even knows..."able to read assembly code"...not sure what this means. The last time I read assembly code was years ago. So I'm probably not even a level 2.

Level 3 requires DARCS, but no Perforce?

"No long functions". Yes, long functions CAN be an INDICATION that there is a problem, but it is a signal, not a rule. Sometimes functions SHOULD be long - especially if only 4-5 variables are being worked on. The rule really should be, functions with too many variables should be avoided, since that's the real warning sign of a problem, not length.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 19:48:19 2015 No.892560

Do you "master a domain" as a programmer? I see resumes listing experience with 20 different languages, all constantly evolving... does knowledge in this field date quickly?

Also, what chief positions are available down the line as a CS-person and what does the required skillset look like? Is it possible to transition out of the frontlines to a more general, "project manger" position?

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 19:57:15 2015 No.892568

>>892560
I'm still in school myself, so I dont have a whole lot of knowledge on the business.

The more languages you know, the easier it gets to learn additional languages. From what I have read, things are especially easy if you know some of the more 'difficult' languages like C++, Ada, Smalltalk, etc. So some dude with 20 languages isnt as impressive as it should be once you know this.

Yes knowledge does date quickly. Mostly because new techs come out that make old ones either not worth using or obsolete. But languages generally have a static core.

I've met two project managers who used to work in either software development or IT.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 20:28:42 2015 No.892593 >>892357 >insane algorithms >posts picture of 1997-tier javascript kek

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 20:31:20 2015 No.892594

>>892560

It depends.
Knowledge of frameworks is volatile, as frameworks come and go all the time.

Knowing how a database works, how to effectively optimize queries to process extremely large datasets (tens of millions of rows) is a knowledge that doesn't date.

Datawarehousing is a bit of a niche market when compared to other markets like web development, but there's money to be made there.
Mostly banks and insurance agencies.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 20:53:15 2015 No.892617

>>892357
Look at startup job sites like angel.co, weworkremotely.com, etc.

You'll see that startups are generally using stuff like Python, Ruby, etc. with frameworks since they allow for quick iteration. They're slow as shit, but most companies do not have performance needs.

Some will use more esoteric stuff like Scala or Clojure, but they're rare enough to be ignored.

Big companies (like Facebook) generally use everything under the sun.

You won't see a lot of C/C++ nowadays unless it's specialized stuff (hardware development, performance sensitive code like in ad network stacks), but it's useful to know since you'll likely end up reading C/C++ source code at some point.

If you want to work at a big, boring company, learn Java and .NET

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 21:57:31 2015 No.892718 >>892568 >Smalltalk >difficult It's a fucking easy language dude. Too bad it's worthless.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 22:21:26 2015 No.892755
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>>892364
>Level1 Computer Scientist
This was expected.
>Level 2.5 (average) Software Engineer
Doing better than I thought I was. I've really gained a lot of experience these past couple of years working in the field. Not bad for no degree in CS or SE.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 22:34:08 2015 No.892777

>>892357
OP in my couple of years experience, companies like people who are punctual, don't come to work hungover, take their working hours seriously, deliver their work on time (or ask for more time or help if they need it), dress, talk and act professionally, and work well with others. You don't have to be an assembler wizard to get a programming job, you don't have to know C++ inside and out, what you have to do is be professional, have decent communication skills, and be willing to learn and improve.

Anonymous Sun Sep 13 23:14:04 2015 No.892820

I know aspie geniuses get jobs, because I've interviewed a lot of them (who have jobs), but I'd rather hire a sane, normal person with decent tastes and some imagination who can communicate. Most things requiring "brilliant" insight have been solved...that is, the cool shit people are doing are applying relatively basic data structures/algo shit to new areas. But all the aspies I've talked to have bad taste and a tendency to not be able to see the forest for the trees, so their lack of imagination prevents them from coming up with anything truly innovative. Instead they rewrite the sepples std lib because "it's faster" or whatever.

>>	Anonymous Sun Sep 13 23:36:52 2015 No.892849 >>892357 >What does it take to be a successful CS-person? If you're trying to get an entry-level job then you'll be competing with literal trash. The vast majority of recent CS grads cannot write code. At all.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 00:46:18 2015 No.892924 File: 246 KB, 1417x1260, 1441417463562.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>892443 Things that don't exist: >bigfoot >the jersey devil >the loch ness monster >the full stack developer Only a few claim to have laid eyes upon them..

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 01:33:39 2015 No.892951 File: 2.74 MB, 500x333, 1438482993549.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw nearly half the companies around where I live are still using COBOL and RPG systems.

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 02:30:30 2015 No.892975

>>892357
Definitely not algorithm pumping geniuses. Being able to do that is obviously a good thing, but it's nowhere near necessary. Knowing general software/web development principles and having the ability to learn and socialize are what's really important.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 12:30:08 2015 No.893244 File: 260 KB, 620x620, cobol.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>892477 This nigger, I'm a COBOL specialist. I've worked for various famous start-ups (facebook, whatsapp, Sean Paul corp. etc). And build the most amazing

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 12:31:58 2015 No.893246 >>893244 APPS, drone software and eye-tracking technique

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 12:34:00 2015 No.893248 chinks and indians are in demad.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 12:55:19 2015 No.893263 >>892820 The taste thing is interesting. I attended a talk by a prominent Facebook executive who talked a lot about the importance of taste. I didn't quite get it at the time relative to other things he was talking about but this is a good explanation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 16:15:05 2015 No.893407 >>892820 >>893263 >taste Can you expand on this?

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 18:53:33 2015 No.893584

>>893407
There are a lot of things in programming that are less technical than a matter of judgement and taste. That's the "art" side of it, and it's a lot harder to learn than the purely technical aspects of things. It's also subjective to some degree, so what would be appropriate in one situation might be inappropriate in another.

Personally, I think an important area of judgement is not fighting the tools you're working with. For example, I hate PHP, but I'm even further baffled when people do things like use obtuse templating libraries in it. Another example would be using dependency injection in a dynamic language like JavaScript.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 18:59:41 2015 No.893587 >>892849 This. A lot of recent CS grads can't write code for shit. Nor can't they explain it. This is also a problem with engineering grads as well. STEM students are dumber than their previous generation counterpart.

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 19:40:30 2015 No.893617

>>893587
>>892849
Yeah this is a problem.

Programming well is plain difficult, it's probably one of the most difficult skills a human being can acquire.
Plenty of people who aren't good in mathematics and quantitative reasoning enroll in STEM because it's one of the last viable majors left. You can't blame them.
It's expected for this to happen when the economy for young adults is so shit while very demanding.

Also, if you don't do programming in your spare time it is very rare to become a good programmer. Becoming a proficient programmer is more about quantity than it is quality.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 19:44:32 2015 No.893620 >>893617 >Programming well is plain difficult, it's probably one of the most difficult skills a human being can acquire. >LOL

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 19:57:22 2015 No.893627

>>893620
If you think that's wrong you're just not a good programmer, or ignorant, probably both.
Insanely competitive field for top talent, there is actually a big lack of supply in good programmers. Proficient programming is very intellectually intensive.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 20:08:30 2015 No.893644 >>893627 As a good programmer who has been on top student in all his university computer programming courses and top employees for a large corporation for programming it is not an easy thing to do.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 20:23:46 2015 No.893668 File: 1007 KB, 1484x2158, kkkkkkkkkkkkk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>892495 My friend just signed a deal with salesforce to be a UX engineer when he graduates. Tell me why he's fucked so I can feel less jealous please?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 20:30:15 2015 No.893675 >>893244 >COBOL How do you compile and run cobol on windows?

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 20:39:19 2015 No.893694

There are three kinds of programmers who will do well in todays market.

1. The wunderkinder guys who went to Ivy leagues, and get scooped up by Google, Facebook, amazing etc.

2. The non-autists who maybe aren't neckbearded wizards, but can take very imprecise high level features from idiot managers and executive, and create software from them. The "full stack" as some would call it.

3. The rich kid fuck heads who suck, but went to an Ivy so they still get picked up by Google, Facebook, amazon etc.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 22:18:00 2015 No.893872 >>893668 SalesForce doesn't feel nice. That's all the negative I can say

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 22:22:59 2015 No.893882 >>893872 He's probably going to make bank huh. One of my other friends said salesforce is just really corporate and full of tryhard normies

Anonymous Mon Sep 14 23:26:25 2015 No.893996

>>892477
>>893244
My melanin enhanced brethren

>>893675
You don't. COBOL is mostly used on IBM mainframes. Actual development is usually done with a standard desktop or laptop running a TSO emulator to connect to the mainframe. Some shops are moving to more modern IDEs though. My company started using an IBM version of Eclipse a couple years ago. Now they are teaching it to all the new hires.

COBOL is best business. Chill people. Chill work schedule. $60-90k starting salary. Plus, you get to work on some truly interesting code as a lot of it was written by people who'd never taken a programming class in their life.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 14 23:39:19 2015 No.894009 >>892924 >>reddit

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 15 00:19:27 2015 No.894067 A job writing COBOL probably does pay a fortune but I can't actually imagine that it's realistic to get. Possible? Sure. But I don't think it's something you can put all your stakes on...

Anonymous Tue Sep 15 00:19:56 2015 No.894068

>>893996
I'm seeing there's a compiler by Raincode, however I haven't tested yet.
There's also this
https://github.com/IonicaBizau/node-cobol/
You might know if they are useful or not.

I'm eager to learn Cobol and Fortran but it seems too hard these days. Smalltalk/Lisp was easier to explore.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 15 00:50:00 2015 No.894087 >>893882 Idk he could start out making 45k for all I know. And what you said about normies is probably right, but that's any big company except for a handful

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 15 04:36:16 2015 No.894229 >>892593 >look at picture Oh the memories. :D

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