Crypto To Crypto Tax

[Anonymous No.8812198]

I've noticed that many people across different cryptocurrency forums I've participated in have openly admitted to not listing down their crypto to crypto trades for their taxes this year. This is a mistake. You are asking to get audited and pay the massive penalties and fees. For your own financial safety, pay taxes on those trades; i..e, using BTC to buy altcoins on Binance. Careful, folks.

[Anonymous No.8812216]

Second that

[Anonymous No.8812307]

>>8812198
How about if you never cash out to your bank at all and then move to a tax haven once you get rich, chill a year or two, open up a new account in said country and deposit the money there?

[Anonymous No.8812343]

>>8812198
meh I say we just ban the IRS

>mfw I realize easy it would actually be

[Anonymous No.8812402]

>>8812307

good luck anon

[Anonymous No.8812422]

>>8812402
Is it a dumb idea or what? Will the authorities find out? I'm not too bright, please share some wisdom fren

[Anonymous No.8812447]

>>8812422

i'm honestly not sure, it sounds risky because of the volatility of the market that could push prices down to near zero which would make moving to said country impossible and financial bankruptcy inevitable

that being said, i'm not definitively sure that crypto to crypto taxes MUST be listed...since this is a new emerging asset class, there may be some leeway, but i personally would not risk it

[Anonymous No.8813765]

It is. They will.

[Anonymous No.8813794]

>buying and selling crypto on an exchange where you have to provide your ID
Good thing I'm not a retard then, eh?

[Anonymous No.8813945]

Just change them to Monero, and cuck the government you doofus.

[Anonymous No.8814007]

>>8812447
>that being said, i'm not definitively sure that crypto to crypto taxes MUST be listed...since this is a new emerging asset class, there may be some leeway, but i personally would not risk it

There is absolutely no leeway in the law. There's no interpretation of this where you don't have to report any and all crypto transactions that result in an increase in "fair market value":

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf
>In general, the sale or exchange of convertible virtual currency, or the use of convertible virtual currency to pay for goods or services in a real-world economy transaction, has tax consequences that may result in a tax liability.

>For federal tax purposes, virtual currency is treated as property. General tax principles applicable to property transactions apply to transactions using virtual currency.

>For U.S. tax purposes, transactions using virtual currency must be reported in U.S. dollars. Therefore, taxpayers will be required to determine the fair market value of virtual currency in U.S. dollars as of the date of payment or receipt. If a virtual currency is listed on an exchange and the exchange rate is established by market supply and demand, the fair market value of the virtual currency is determined by converting the virtual currency into U.S. dollars (or into another real currency which in turn can be converted into U.S. dollars) at the exchange rate, in a reasonable manner that is consistently applied.

>If the fair market value of property received in exchange for virtual currency exceeds the taxpayer’s adjusted basis of the virtual currency, the taxpayer has taxable gain. The taxpayer has a loss if the fair market value of the property received is less than the adjusted basis of the virtual currency.

The only POSSIBLE gray area. (Very dark gray) is 1031 Like-Kind deferral for crypto to crypto prior to 2018. But it's very possible they'll reject your deferral and audit you.

[Anonymous No.8814057]

>>8812198
Just gonna say my ledger got stolen, write that junk off as a casualty, none of the exchanges except coinbase have any of my info tied to them, and I've done maybe $100 worth of trading on gdax... so... yeah. GL!

[Anonymous No.8814099]

>>8812198
Why not just declare some of it? Then you don’t have to hide your lifestyle improvement/can pay off your debts, but still have a secret stash in case shtf. I’m not greedy, but I’m pretty right wing and worried about the government going full communist kill-whitey in the future.

[Anonymous No.8814183]

even the exchanges don't log that shit. bitfinex, for instance, only let's you have 3 months of data and it's literally a spreadsheet you could make yourself.

[Anonymous No.8814482]

>>8812198
what about this
you never cash out, move abroad in 2025 to a crypto friendly country, and spend your crypto?

[Anonymous No.8814732]

>>8814482
Ez gg

[Anonymous No.8814935]

>>8812307
You can only get away with that if you renounce your citizenship and become a tax exile - most of the exile countries have lower income taxes, but you're going to pay taxes on those coins at some point, and it have better be a LOT of coins, because renouncing citizenship, especially in the US, is typically a one way thing - once you go, you stay there. So it had better be enough to last the rest of your life, because you're going to be living in a small carribean country with very few career opportunities. It's a pretty extreme thing for less than say a couple million USD, and even then, probably not worth it. Plus, such a move is costly, so you're gonna need cash to pull it off. You can't go from NEET, walk off a plane, and become a millionaire instantly. It's a process, and a long one. A lot of you angry NEETs think citizenship is a like a driver's license, you can just go get one, but it's a process that you'll probably need a lawyer, deal with paperwork, and authorities.
You can't just move to a tax haven country, even countries like Switzerland are now under the jurisdiction of FATCA laws, where banks are required to report large amounts of money to the home countries of citizens of those countries.
The world was changed because of 9/11 and terrorism, the banks work with governments to track money, and you're walking into that world naive and completely unaware of what they know and what they can prove, and how risky it is to fuck around with that.

[Anonymous No.8815469]

In case someone is actually concerned about these tax troll threads: If you did trades on binance there is no way the IRS is going to find out or care about that. The only thing you need to concern yourself with is if you did trades on an exchange like Coinbase that could be forced to give info to the IRS by a court. Random chink exchanges don't fall under this -- the IRS has no power to get any info from them.

[Anonymous No.8815545]

>>8812198
I'm not going to bother reporting crypto to crypto tradees, but I will report everything I cash out. It'll just get expensive and prisony if you don't pay the man.

[Anonymous No.8815574]

>>8815469
Binance TOS:

>"You acknowledge and agree that, BINANCE may, on requests from governmental authorities (including judicial and administrative departments), provide user information provided by you to BINANCE, transaction records and any other necessary information."

I bet they would just hand over everything without a fight if asked, even if they only have IP's and emails. Remember when the FBI seized btc-e for being a "money laundering site".

[Anonymous No.8815634]

>>8815545
If you're a US tax payer, you don't have the option of not reporting your trades. I don't understand how you think you have that option. Form 8949 is what you file if you don't have 1099s or W-2s. The IRS wants to know how you generated that asset gain. It's very simple, and it's amusing to me how hard you guys are fighting this basic fact: if you trade anything, stocks or crypto, you have to keep records, and hand them off to the IRS every tax year. It's not optional, and not doing it is going to almost guarantee an audit down the road - and don't believe the "they don't care/don't have enough people" meme - they got more funding in the tax overhaul bill, and they have years to come after you.
This isn't an endorsement of the current tax laws, but if you don't like it, get politicians elected who will be willing to change it. Until then, you're facing forces you can't win against, and reporting significant income with no history attached to it how you made it is not only guaranteed audit territory, you're also stepping into Patriot Act Territory, where they're looking for terrorism money.
I have a feeling that two years from now, /biz is going to be flooded with "I GOT IRS LETTER WHY U FUCKERS FOOL ME?" posts.

[Anonymous No.8815715]

>>8815634
Everyone has the option of breaking the law you moron.

[Anonymous No.8815794]

>>8815715
Some people think it's within legal bounds to just "pay when you cash out", but don't realize that requires frauding a transaction history on the 8949 so it looks like you made all the gains within the year you cashed out and didn't generate any reportable tax events on previous years. I've seen people who literally think there's an option on a form somewhere to do cash out - initial investment = this.

[Anonymous No.8815989]

>>8815794
By the way frauding on your tax forms in that manner would be an extremely serious crime. If found out you'd be prosecuted the same as silk road drug dealers using false trades to launder money.

Also always keep in mind how long the arm of US law enforcement is and how they seized BTC-e, which was the binance of the old days. And even expatriating doesn't necessarily prevent you from being prosecuted for tax crimes:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-08/irs-cops-scouring-crypto-accounts-to-build-tax-evasion-cases

>Aside from cryptocurrency and the flow of funds out of Switzerland, the international team will focus on tax crimes involving expatriates and cases arising out of the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act.

>In addition to individuals who evade taxes, Fort’s agents are looking at unlicensed exchanges in the U.S. and overseas. They are working with other criminal agents around the U.S. and stationed abroad.

Weigh the risks and consequences before you do anyhting.

[Anonymous No.8816044]

>>8815989
FATCA is a massive brick wall headed for the "I don't wanna pay my taxes!" crowd. They don't even know it. Well, the incredibly small amount of people who try to go to tax havens. That means maybe one person from /biz, the rest is larping and tough talk from NEETs who probably owe $40 in taxes.

[Anonymous No.8816814]

I only trade on Kucoin (no KYC, no withdrawal limit) (almost 7 figures), whenever my coins get listed on Binance I still trade them in Kucoin.
Eurofag, so less than 1 hour train ride to the closes tax haven. mfw a million tax havens close to me where they will literally accept my BTC (i know this by experience) and give me a credit card that i will be able to use EVERYWHERE
SRSLY BURGERLAND IS A FUCKING JOKE HAHAAHHAHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAA