/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.8711479]

WE

[Anonymous No.8711513]

>>8711479
WUZ

[Anonymous No.8711528]

>>8711513
YOU ARE A WOJACK!

[Anonymous No.8711531]

HAPPY

[Anonymous No.8711535]

WHEN I WAS

[Anonymous No.8711544]

Young wild and free

[Anonymous No.8711554]

WERE BUILDING IT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

[Anonymous No.8711556]

ARE FARMERS!

DUNN DU DU DUN DUN DUUUUN

[Anonymous No.8711566]

>worst chapter
no, we Linkmarines are a successor chaptor of the imperial fists.

[Anonymous No.8711569]

>>8711479
>the wheel of crypto turns and ICOs come and pass
>digimarines fade to myth when the TA that gave the linkies birth returns again
>what was and what will be when the age of bulls returns

[Anonymous No.8711622]

>>8711479
CHOSEN ONES

[Anonymous No.8711636]

It started with us.

It will end with us.

BLOOD FOR THE BLOODCANDLE!!!!!!!!!!

[GoldenShower No.8711705]

>>8711622
Here to tell you, no one in traditional finance has a hard on. My gf and her parents run two big hedge funds and I’m constantly surrounded by finance people. They think it’s idiotic.

[Anonymous No.8711714]

>>8711705
Ssssshhhh... dont ruin it for him.
He is so sweet, when he is dreaming...

[Anonymous No.8711722]

>>8711705
>traditional finance
Welcome to pic related

[Anonymous No.8711730]

>>8711705
Upvote

[Anonymous No.8711732]

>>8711705
Is this pasta

[Anonymous No.8711753]

>>8711479
kys retard

[Anonymous No.8711756]

>>8711732
Yes

[Anonymous No.8711775]

>>8711722
>dreams of institutional money flowing in, making him rich
>belitles institutional money, when he is confronted with reality

[Anonymous No.8711779]

>>8711705
My brother's niece and her parents are traditional hedge fund managers and they are looking forward to fully diving into the crypto market.

[Anonymous No.8711813]

>>8711705

This literally cannot be true. My parents work at Renaissance and I work in an auxiliary field that involves dealing with a lot of PEMs and general financial types and whenever I specifically ask them their views on crypto they always talk about it as if it's interesting and reasonably exciting but they aren't touching it for awhile, beyond small amounts to play with. These people are not idiots, they understand how seemingly dumb things can explode and they also have a good understanding of the utility for something like crypto in terms of facilitating legislative loopholes and ensuring a lot more ease in using tax sanctuaries.

So my question is, ignoring everyone on else on this thread, why are you lying? What do you get out of it? Honestly /biz/ isn't going to affect the price of any crypto either way, so what do you get out of it? Or are your parents salaried bond/security salesman who are just annoyed at the new fad? Curious what your opinion is.

[GoldenShower No.8711875]

>>8711732
No, it’s true. The World economic forum had to address cryptocurrency because it is a huge unregulated anomaly I imagine. I’m literally telling you, I’ve tried to talk to my gf about crypto...she and everyone in her industry think it’s retarded. That is a top down mandate at Merrill Lynch. My friend is developing a blockchain project...They use hyperledger. I really think crypto is mostly useless tokens and decentralized currencies that are interesting but have no NECESSARY use at this point. I dunno what the future holds, but I can say with certitude that finance people LOL at crypto and will insist on making you feel dumb about it, even if you’ve done well with it like I have :(

[GoldenShower No.8711891]

>>8711813
Renaissance is really unique. I wouldn’t be surprised if they’re different

[Anonymous No.8711895]

>>8711775
Blockchain agnostic middleware for tamperproof automated smartcontracts sorta sounds like something faggots with "traditional financial interests" might wanna wrap their heads around if they want to stay relevant in the future of financial technology trenchbrain...

[Anonymous No.8711896]

>>8711875
says the people that can be replaced by the tech

[Anonymous No.8711904]

ARE
THE
BUTTFUCKED

[Anonymous No.8711910]

>>8711705
nobody cares about gf's little family office

[GoldenShower No.8711911]

>>8711813
What do your parents do there? Renaissance is fucking amazing. Their algorithmic strategies literally trump everyone’s returns.

[Anonymous No.8711930]

>>8711705
This pasta is already stale

[GoldenShower No.8711949]

>>8711910
Okay, if you want to listen to pasta that gives false info that’s fine. I’m just trying to give a more realistic POV. There aren’t a bunch of hyenas in suits on wall street jerking off to stave off their insatiable desire to buy BTC and crypto. They just think it’s a dumb risk “backed by nothing”

[GoldenShower No.8711977]

>>8711930
Literally not pasta. Ask anything you like. I’ll give you their response. I’m pro crypto, so I’ve talked about it extensively with them.

[Anonymous No.8711996]

>>8711911

They're high up, both were headhunted from academic positions. I won't be more specific, but I will swear on getting cancer I have had dinner with the Mercers last year at their apartment. But even beyond that I met up with a Luxembourg banker who manages foreign money literally six weeks ago and asked him about Ethereum and he's in his 50s yet he went on in considerable detail about its strength and weaknesses and what he advises clients etc. Now if these people think crypto is idiotic they wouldn't be learning about this shit. These people have very limited time. Just because the dumbest people in the world are into crypto does not mean smart people aren't also looking at it.

[Anonymous No.8712001]

>>8711895
>Blockchain agnostic middleware for tamperproof automated smartcontracts sorta sounds like something faggots with "traditional financial interests" might wanna wrap their heads around if they want to stay relevant in the future of financial technology trenchbrain...

Maybe.
If it is better than the tech we have.
Also, why should we need a currency on it to use these features?

[Anonymous No.8712047]

>>8711875
I don't know what your pillow said but I agree that crypto is mostly just useful when there's a very serious demand for censorship resistance, not sure how much that is in reality or where. Still seems worth it to me to bet a bit on linkies and that they'll jump the hurdles along the way but maybe I'm just memeing myself.

[Anonymous No.8712057]

>>8711722
Has anyone read book related in pic related? What's the 4th industrial revolution? I only know it as link

[Anonymous No.8712136]

>>8711949

Ok now I know you're speaking entirely out of your ass. You must be either a teenager or some sort of extremely smug 'hobbyist trader' because what you are saying cannot be true simply because financial types don't use terms like 'backed by nothing'. That particularly phrase is often used by laypeople who hold comfort in whatever they hold their money in. People that deal in finance often have to treat money as an extremely abstract idea since they continuously have to work with concepts like Sharpe ratios and derivatives, working with these will eventually alter how you perceive money. Like consider a forex trader, a forex trader who profits off swings between currencies will begin to understand that no one currency has any set value since all values are in continuous flux relative to each other and are essentially market averages. Then you consider bank policy, interest rates, bond yields, etc. and you begin to form a much more nebulous conception of 'value'.

For this reason people with experience in finance will change their model of what they consider money/value depending on the context. So while someone in finance might dislike crypto, might criticise it's many glaring flaws, they would never use the argument 'back by nothing' because it is the precise kind of superficial statement a University student would make. Plus the very statement depends on what happens in the future, government could theoretically impose far harsher regulations on cryptocurrencies, regulation is a form of backing because it leverages judicial systems as a form of securitisation. Or consider that no regulation is imposed, then while it is not backed by any form of judicial security, you could argue that presents an alternate value case for black market money, etc I could go on. Point is speculative investments yield high returns because of uncertainty, not despite it

[GoldenShower No.8712148]

>>8711996
Interesting. I think Ethereum is a unique case compared to most other cryptocurrency. I think lots of “solutions” will be developed using ETH and hyperledger (maybe now hashgraph), but many will be largely unnoticed by the general population.

I’m still more speaking of wealth managers’ view of cryptocurrency though and not necessarily “blockchain” in general.

Like to suggest they have a “hard on” in their conspiring to augment their fortunes using the crypto market...is just pretty silly.

[Anonymous No.8712153]

>>8711705
Hedge funds are scam. They've been scam for 30 years or so. Returns are ridiculous after fees, one cannot manage money effectively when traded in size. Also fraud very common in these settings where funds are supposed to manage money, thus each year big pile of jailed hedge fund managers.

[Anonymous No.8712175]

>>8712001
DYOR FAGGOT

[Anonymous No.8712182]

>>8711977
Lol

[GoldenShower No.8712196]

>>8712136
No dude, this is the statement they say...and it is true in many cases. You can try to obfuscate an argument, but not all financial managers feel the need to sound erudite.

These are also casual conversations.

[Anonymous No.8712199]

>>8712001
You’re right. Let’s run nodes for free. Socialism!

[GoldenShower No.8712254]

>>8712153
No, they’re not a scam, they’re an investment vehicle that usually focuses on unique investments. Just because some people may disguise scams as hedge funds doesn’t mean hedge funds are inherently scams. Your same argument could be made against all cryptocurrencies.

[GoldenShower No.8712337]

>>8712136
And what you’re saying makes no sense. How will derivatives and sharpe ratios “alter how you view money?” Derivatives clearly are based on the value of some commodity...? Cryptos are not used as derivatives. They’re strictly backed by auction market theory and people willing to bid a price on them...which is “nothing” in the eyes of these people. Value not backed by a contract (derivative), not backed by a government, not backed by any tangible asset. They are only worth what people are willing to accept at any given moment.

[Anonymous No.8712344]

>>8712196

You're missing my point, my argument isn't that they wouldn't use such basic language, they certainly would. Many of them are quite frank and direct, but no serious financial professional would evaluate cryptocurrency as an actual competitor to currency. The entire discussion would be a non-starter, so they would never use a statement like 'it's backed by nothing' as a disparaging remark because virtually anyone who's done any amount of research into cryptocurrency knows that the long term growth potential has nothing to do with it's ability to be a 'store of value', that's just a meme from r/bitcoin. So whoever would say it's idiotic because it isn't backed by anything, is basically arguing against planes because they'll never withstand the radiation from space. I'm sure I could think of a better analogy if it wasn't so late, but my point is anyone who works in finance, who's spending time evaluating investments and tech trends/disruptive fields, would understand that the primary appeal in cryptocurrencies stem from their ability to assetize network protocols. This is extremely appealing because network protocols always trend to monopolisation and cryptocurrencies allow you to circumvent anti-trust laws. That's just one facet as an example. So when I hear the phrase 'it isn't backed by anything' it sets off alarm bells that whoever is saying this is just downright not interested in even contemplating any remotely interesting prospects in a new field. Which is stupid because even if a project is doomed to fail and your gut is telling you it can't succeed because x,y,z, you still evaluate the risk profile based on it's potential applications. Not based on what a group of online losers think will happen after WW3.

[GoldenShower No.8712419]

>>8712344
Yes, tokens represent potential access to some platform...but most of those platforms are nonexistent/in development. Trust me, I view your perspective also...but I am just giving their perspective.

[Anonymous No.8712475]

>>8712337

Derivatives arent always directly tied to the immediate value of tangible assets, furthermore you can have derivatives based on other derivatives. But the point isn't that derivatives are so groundbreaking, the point is when you spend hours constantly developing new increasingly complex financial instruments something starts to 'click' in your brain, you start to be more abstract and lateral in how you think about what money is.

Consider as a basic example the credit default swap, whereby you can 'sell' your potential losses to someone else. So then you understand that many financial instruments are actually just various ways of abstracting, dividing, and distributing risk. So then a profitable model occurs when you sell risk for a profit, so the net gain from a transaction from an instrument exceeds the loss * probability of you losing from that instrument. This is relatively easy to follow at first, but becomes more complex when you have derivatives built on other derivatives with their own risk profiles. This is what caused the GFC, but I don't want to get off my point. My core point was most people in banking the reason they become so jaded and stressed is because they start to realise that everything is just probabilities and fractions and risk points, money is 'backed' by the judicial system from a certain point of view, but at the same time the value of that money will always be dependant on the parallel value of everything that money can buy.

Think of it like einsteins relativity, so first you had the geocentric model, then the heliocentric model, then relativity says it all depends on your point of reference. If barrels of oil is your point of reference you could argue that oil never goes up or down, everything around it does. I'm being intentionally obtuse not to sound 'intellectual' or state that all bankers are this cerebral, no most of them are very down to earth. What I'm saying is bankers aren't likely to think crypto as a store of value.

[GoldenShower No.8712485]

>>8712344
Take ADA: there is no product, there is just a token and an idea. You don’t own equity in anything nor is the token acting as a derivative/security. Its value is completely determined via auction, and there’s nothing stopping the issuers from disappearing with no ability to take recourse. Now sure, you could make a similar argument against say, the Bolivar...but no one would invest in that either...

[GoldenShower No.8712515]

>>8712475
I know what swaps, options, and derivatives are. None of them apply to crypto (yet)

[Anonymous No.8712572]

>>8712419

Not platforms, you're thinking of the market as it IS, which none of these people do, they think about markets in terms of 5, 10, 15 years from now. Cryptocurrencies at their core have nothing to do with currency and everything to do with game theory and encryption. They are models of incentivising securitisation. This means they can one day be used to assetise NETWORK protocols themselves. Not shitty platforms like 'tinder but with tokens!' or even 'dapps!', they don't think or care about that kind of shit.

Look you said your gfs parents are managers of big hedge funds, now I know there are lots of different types of people. But everyone I've ever met (and it's quite a few people) who's ever made it to a high executive position in a cutthroat industry like tech or finance has always had one thing in common: enthusiasm for change. I don't mean that they go around following the latest fads, what I mean is they are always open minded about being wrong and about how existing industries can be disrupted. They are the kind of people who were excited about self driving cars in the 90s. They're almost nerdy in their enthusiasm for anything new. That's because that is the mentality it takes to get far and not burn out. If you want to be a top accountant at deloitte then sure you can be a ties-up-to-11 conservative british middle class man. But if you're gonna be the top in a field like finance, you have an almost nauseating optimism for new ideas. I personally actually disagree with these people because I am a pessimist, but what you're describing sounds totally out of character.

[GoldenShower No.8712653]

>>8712572
I didn’t say they aren’t open minded to change. They have even said that there is nothing stopping them from getting into crypto in the future if it represents a less risky investment. I was merely initially responding to the posted image that suggested Wall Street is sitting around with a boner 24/7 watching crypto prices like 4chan and conspiratorially pulling the strings of price action...because, in my experience, they are largely uninterested and don’t view it as a sage investment right now. I think people confuse hedge funds as vehicles trying to find HUGE growth (some do), but many are simply looking for steady, safe, predictable ROI over 15%

[Anonymous No.8712683]

>>8712485

See this is what I mean, this is how you and I would think about crypto. What my whole point from the start is when you talk about crypto to a finance executive, they're not gonna be talking about existing tokens or products, they're gonna be talking about BIG picture stuff. Because their job requires thinking big, not I never mentioned a single crypto in anything I've said so far. They're gonna be talking about the underlying tech. What they won't be saying is it's 'idiotic' because it 'isn't backed by anything' since that's such a pointless and self-evident observation that actually says absolutely nothing about what the use case for crypto will be in 10 years because only r/bitcoin idiots think crypto will ever be a 'currency'.

>>8712515

You keep missing my over-arching point, which is that being in finance a long time makes you look at money differently after awhile since you start to understand how relative a lot of these ideas are, as I highlighted in my other lengthy posts. I know you know what swaps options and derivatives are, that's why I used them as my example. My point was if you spent years using stochastic calculus to determine a more efficient pricing model for a derivative to undercut a competitor, doing that a lot will (as working in any field will for its respective subject) change how you view money from the point of view of a layperson. A layperson goes to work gets their check, cashes it, and is happy the whole system 'works' because the government is 'backing it', a person with decades of experience in finance will understand that money 'backs' the government as much as the government 'backs' money, etc.

>>8712653

You used the term 'idiotic because it isn't backed by anything'

I 100% agree most people in finance, handling instutional money, would never invest large amounts in crypto due to a plethora of flaws. I only disagree that *that* specific argument isn't the reason they wouldn't. And they wouldn't call it 'idiotic'

[GoldenShower No.8712703]

>>8712572
It’s nice to have a conversation here with someone who is clearly smart though and doesn’t resort to saying

“Fuck your nigger pasta faggot kys”

So thank you.

[Anonymous No.8712748]

>>8711705
>posts pasta
its not pasta guys.

[GoldenShower No.8712780]

>>8712683
I may have been conflating my gf being a bitch when I said they describe it as idiotic, so that’s my fault. And that was surely when she was trying to get me to sell all my XLM at the peak. But nonetheless, cryptocurrencies don’t necessarily represent an investment into a piece of the underlying tech in many cases. I believe that is their main issue and it is being solved by a lot of these newer security ICOs like hashgraph, machine zones, lit, telegram, etc (which apparently act as securities and require accreditation).

[Anonymous No.8712785]

>>8712136
holy fucking rekt. I actually learned something reading this

[Anonymous No.8712811]

>>8712683
Did you work in finance

[Anonymous No.8712834]

>>8712811
WE

[Anonymous No.8712846]

>>8712780

>I may have been conflating my gf being a bitch when I said they describe it as idiotic, so that’s my fault.

That makes a lot more sense, sorry to rant at you but so many alarm bells went off. I've been lurking for years and I see a lot of misinformation written but what triggers me the most is when I see 'I know person X in Y and they said' and then I just read something where I simply *know* that cannot be the case. Glad to clear this up.

>But nonetheless, cryptocurrencies don’t necessarily represent an investment into a piece of the underlying tech in many cases.

I would argue this is true in every case right now, which is why if you talk to some 40 year old executive in finance, in my experience, they will get very excited about all the possibilities crypto unlocks in the distant future. But they will get excited, because it's all about >distributed protocol assetisation< I cannot emphasise this enough. It's not about rolling dice on some shitty website, or using AirBNB with some useless token stapled on. When proprietary firms do this better 100% of the time. It's about when T-Mobile will be able to circumvent anti-trust laws by launching 6G on a decentralised network where they happen to control the majority stake but it's not technically equity so it isn't illegal. This and a lot more crazy shit.

>>8712811
I work in an auxiliary field. My parents work with/for the Mercers.

[GoldenShower No.8712870]

>>8712683
Interesting post though. Would be very interested in knowing more about what your parents do at Renaissance because they clearly have a different POV than most other firms...and the returns prove the success. Could you elaborate on your parents’ backgrounds of study/professorship?

[Anonymous No.8712882]

>>8711479
9pm est

[Anonymous No.8712891]

>>8712846
post more often pls senpai /biz/ is drowning in idiots

[Anonymous No.8712952]

>>8712870

Mother went to Harvard on a fulbright, got a degree in Russian Literature and Physics. Went to Russia (Soviet Union at the time) and married my father, a Russian Astronomer. Father emigrated and they both became professors at an Ivy league (won't disclose which for privacy reasons) got headhunted from their positions to work at Renaissance. Brother went to MIT at 17 but dropped out, then my parents went full /stealthy/ and I went to a small private University.

[GoldenShower No.8712964]

>>8712846
If your parents just work for Mercers...are they no longer with Renaissance? Didn’t Robert Mercer leave?

[Anonymous No.8713019]

>>8712964

Yes he did. The more accurate statement is they work *at* Renaissance and *with* the Mercers since a lot of executives at these firms engage in multiple projects (think trust fund consultant here, NGO advisory board there, etc) though there's all kinds of COI compliance they need to adhere to.

[Anonymous No.8713029]

>>8712952
It is an honor to post in your presence.

[Anonymous No.8713056]

>>8713029

Cheers.

[GoldenShower No.8713065]

>>8712952
Interesting circuitous route there. Were there relevant emergent similarities in their fields to finances? My professor of “bio transport phenomena” in college killed it with a hedge fund by relating some kind of motion equation to financial markets. Not sure the specifics, but usually found such cross-disciplinary manifestations interesting.

[Anonymous No.8713142]

>>8713065

They were headhunted in the 90s so they were at the sort of boom of quant analysis so back then all you need was to be really good at mathematics, although my dad worked a lot with computer simulations which probably helped, my mother was more of the books and chalk type. They ended up filling slightly different roles, my dad was more technical, my mother was more managerial. Either way now the market is more saturated with quants so you probably need more of a 'ace' to get in like your prof. did.

[GoldenShower No.8713191]

>>8713142
Sounds like a more academic version of my gf’s parents

[Anonymous No.8713219]

>>8713065

You might like this while were on the topic: a saying my parents came up with they love to parrot, it works better in Russian but the gist of it is

'the lowest type of employment and the highest type of employment is convincing people to give you money' which basically means that the bottom of the ladder is beggars, but the highest point of the ladder is meeting with clients. So now that they've been working 20+ years they don't do any technical/numbers stuff.

But the phrase is tricky because in russian the words for 'lowest' and 'highest' are like 'shameful' and 'prestigious' but they mirror each other the way lowest and highest do.

[Anonymous No.8713264]

>>8713191

Yeah I'm starting to suspect that it wasn't her parents telling you, but her telling you what her parents said. Which makes more sense because if you're a finance type and you understand all these complex factors but your kid asks you why you don't like crypto, you're more likely to reach for some easy answer like 'it isnt backed by anything', especially if your kid isn't at all involved in your field.

However if you were having dinner and the setting was a more professional/serious one about advice and opinions, they'd never say that. But it's still disingenuous the way you presented it because you were trying to convey 'authority' in that opinion when in reality all you had was essentially hearsay.

[Anonymous No.8713453]

>>8713264
what are your favorite cryptos, based anon?

[Anonymous No.8713470]

>>8713453
he's a linkie it's obvious based off of the posts he made all memes aside

[GoldenShower No.8713484]

>>8713264
No, I’ve spoken with them directly about it on several occasions. And she is in the field, although she is very green...just past her series 7, 63, etc...she’s only 27.

They work for Merill Lynch and there is literally a top down mandate to avoid crypto and her father is pretty high up on the totem pole within the company on a national level. By speaking with her parents, I can also garner a sense that they don’t view the “potential” of a lot of these products...they’re pretty pragmatic people. Their strategy in wealth management largely takes advantage of the adage, “it’s not what you know, it’s who you know,” (your parents’ Russian saying is more eloquent and interesting). That being said, they are very well connected and I’ve met some interesting people in the finance world and have largely run into negative sentiment regarding crypto. Her father comes from old, generational wealth, so additionally his strategies seem to focus on maintenance rather than innovation (and a lot of their clients are old money). We are East Coast USA. The mentality is very different on the west coast and in places like Denver where there is much more verve for new things.

[Anonymous No.8713545]

Imagine being a fucking namefag on an anonymous board. Fucking narcissists.

[Anonymous No.8713568]

>>8711479
I sold all of my LINK
Stupid useless shitcoin that hasn't and never will go anywhere

[Anonymous No.8713582]

>>8713484
you wanna know why they arent big on crypto? because they are trying to stay in business. its literally a threat to them

[Anonymous No.8713590]

>>8713545

Defaults on my phone. There, better? Hope I didn’t ruin your day.

[Anonymous No.8713607]

>>8713484
also lol. any retard who took undergrad finance can pass the series 7 and 63. its not even an accomplishment.

[Anonymous No.8713652]

>>8713582
Elaborate. How do you suppose cryptocurrency is a threat to them? I know that it isn’t, but I’m interested in your thoughts.

[Anonymous No.8713705]

>>8713453

There are no 'good' cryptos right now, bitcoin long term won't go anywhere. Regardless of market sentiment if bitcoin stays above 100 USD it is hands down an absolute success by virtually any metric. Since it will basically cement at least one permanent use case. Consider that bitcoin 'cannot' fail at this point, if usage plummets completely, then it stabilises theoretically at a very low price (100 USD lets imagine) then transactions would be very speedy and so in a way it will forever exist as an intangible, persistent, currency existing entirely digitally. This is, in the grand scheme of things, a watershed moment. Imagine watching some sci fi film taking place in 2070 and people are scavenging hard drives for virtual money, you would think this is totally plausible for 2070. But the reality is that bitcoin is the predecessor to this. It exists now. So I think only a supremely ignorant person would not respect bitcoin, the investors its attracting right now are scummy, and you could lose a lot of money but the reality is on the historical scale it won. It would take a crash to <50 USD levels before you could honestly dismiss/laugh at it.

Going forward, new cryptos, if you aren't looking to take risks and flip coins, I'd basically advise in keeping your eyes open for anything that hopes to assetise a network protocol. Basically cryptocurrencies are not achievements in technology (blockchains and databases are relatively simple) they are achievements in game theory. Network protocols always tend towards monopolies, consider phones, would you bother to learn someones phone code if it was alphabetical instead of alphabetical? "Oh Rob is on the DSF network, to ring him dial AXXZZZ-F%", so because of anti trust laws and the intangible nature of a network protocol, companies invest in infrastructure to support protocols, then lease out access.

Look for cryptos that will directly monetise/incentivise entire ISO protocols and cross your fingers.

[Anonymous No.8713715]

>>8713607
She got her job because of familial nepotism, 100%. She studied sports psychology. Not sure what you get out of trying to lessen someone’s life accomplishments though regardless of how they compare to yours. She’s financially successful, makes more than 95% of girls her age and she’s not dumb. She doesn’t have an open mind regarding crypto though.

[Anonymous No.8713807]

>>8713705
In a way, you have a similar POV as they do...you’ve clearly just put more thought into it (or care enough to elaborate).

I think there is a potential for cryptos to be used to represent commodities and derivatives/securities which could increase accessibility and ease of these markets.

[Anonymous No.8713811]

>>8713715

This is interesting because I actually think this may be a certain subset of financial types, I know the daughter of a hedge fund manager now that you mention it that LOATHES crypto. She's this environmental type who started a think tank to help third worlders (her family is indian so maybe she has some sense of duty, I don't know) but regardless even in those cases she thinks very poorly of crypto but even in talking to her I distinctly understand that she is afraid. Not of it disrupting financial instutions, but more that pandoras box has basically been opened. Cryptocurrencies can come and go and wax and wane but the concept of proof of work and anonymous cooperative decentralisation is very dystopian for her. So I think theres often an emotional/political root to distrust/dislike of crypto, that or ignorance.

I just cannot, and I have talked about this with a lot of 'influential' (I hate using that word it's so cringe but I can't think of alternatives) people across finance, tech, and even politics ranging from old fashioned to early adopter types, and I've never met someone who in private has downright laughed or dismissed crypto. Because on paper, look at the past ten years, you can't not respect the progress and achievements that have been made. Denying them is disingenuous at best, ignorant at worst.

[Anonymous No.8713857]

>>8713705
Thanks for the amazing reply.
>Look for cryptos that will directly monetise/incentivise entire ISO protocols and cross your fingers.
What about LINK then?

[Anonymous No.8713872]

>>8712001
Crypto economics creates incentives to secure the network. Who do you know is willing to operate a node for free? Will you do it so we can have all the great benefits of decentralization for free? That's really appealing to me because I like free stuff, so hurry up and secure the network so we can all freeload off you, faggot!

[Anonymous No.8713888]

>>8713807

I actually feel the opposite. I feel 'asset tokenisation' is the current buzzword but it will fail horribly, this is precisely why I think coins like JNT are a joke. Asset tokenisation won't happen, there are too many political, legal, and financial reasons that make it unfeasible.

You need to break down what cryptocurrencies are on a basic, BASIC level. What is their USP? What problem did Satoshi actually solve with his white paper? Consider this, whatever long term use case cryptos have, basic market dynamics would suggest that they won't be adopted for something that could have been achieved before their existence. Asset tokenisation could have been done in the 90s.

Asset tokenisation requires legislative recognition, if your assets are recognised via legislation then you can essentially achieve BETTER asset tokenisation via a centralised ledger. You don't need a blockchain, it achieves nothing. What is actually happening is blockchain has brought about ICOs, ICOs have brought about a new type of crowdfunding, and people are NOW thinking that tokenising assets can be next. But this thinking is not directly due to the impact of actual blockchain tech, it's actually a side effect of people being exposed to 'token securities'.

You need to think about what blockchain does that CANNOT be achieved without it. That is the key.

[Anonymous No.8713913]

>>8713857

I'm not going to comment on existing coins, but basically if something like what everyone says LINK will be comes around, then yes tokens of that category. They might not come around for a decade. But ultimately anonymous network enforcement via decentralised incentives is the only thing that cannot be done without blockchain. I can elaborate further if you want.

[Anonymous No.8713970]

>>8713888
I found your 6G internet suggestion interesting, but I’m not sure yet I could conceptualize how blockchain could achieve this. Would the entire intenet not need to be quantized and distributed amongst countless nodes? Is there a different way you view this?

[Anonymous No.8713982]

>>8713913
>anonymous network enforcement via decentralised incentives is the only thing that cannot be done without blockchain.
t. brainlet, I think I'm following. So what about all of these cloud service coins like SKY? It provides an anonymous network because it's decentralized..? Or ENG, which keeps smart contract data anonymous? What about using DLT for exchanges like KNC, 0x, XLM? I understand that there's tools in place (Why use a decentralized exchange if I can just use binanace), but if it's decentralized it's going to be far more dependable

[Anonymous No.8714093]

>>8713970

Don't think of the blockchain as the medium, think of as the legislative system.

Think about how society works, every day you wake up and are given access to tons of benefits from being a part of society. You have access to emergency aid, fire extinguishing services, highways, etc etc. The assumption is that the vast majority of people contribute to the society the benefit from simply by engaging in it. The question then is what prevents exploiting these benefits? Stealing, or running red lights, etc. The legislative system. It incentivises 'good practice' and rewards engagement via a salary at your work place etc.

So now the big problem that Satoshi solved, since digital cash as an idea has been around since the 90s, is imagine you want a network protocol that is maintained by its users, imagine that when you connect to the internet you are also providing other people internet, imagine that this is baked into Windows or your router or whatever, even by a private company, well the only way to ensure you don't abuse your power is to have a record of you. You cannot punish someone in a system that is open/free/anonymous. So the blockchain acts as the legal system in the society analogy. Since its decentralised no one would be worried about corporate control and it would self regulate.

So now let me presents an example where some private corporation launches a new better faster VR-world that comes with its own cables and hardware and everything, it is to the internet what the internet is to television. Now if you look at the internet and television you realise that internet already gave us more freedom, lets take this to its theoretical maximum. You are going to have access and your own hardware is going to support the network itself, to prevent you from fucking with other peoples connections, a baked in blockchain will essentially incentivise you with tokens which act as currency.

This is something off the top of my head but (see part 2)

[Anonymous No.8714186]

>>8714093

It highlights everything I am saying. The actual hardware, the software everything was initially provided by a private corporation with employees etc. but the minute you use the system you have a proportional control over it equal to your share of the network. So if 1/1000000 people use it, you have that much influence. The cryptocurrency here is now CRITICAL and cannot be replaced by anything else because the cryptocurrency is auditable, self regulating, transparent while preserving anonymity. So no one in the real world knows who you are, but at the same time everyone also knows that you are securing the network due to game theory.

At first these kinds of applications are going to be advantageous, but eventually they will be downright NECESSARY. Imagine a future world where data and interconnectivity is 100x more ubiquitous, corporations controlling data would have power on the levels of states. Imagine if a real 'matrix style' VR world was created, would you plug your head into a world where a corporation could set every nerve in your body on fire 'if they wanted to'.

These examples are crazy far fetched because I'm illustrating a point, we may never reach this level of society. A far more practical reason why it would be adopted is because lets say youre a phone company and you're launch the REAL next gen phone network, to completely replace GSM. Currently corporations are valued based on their controlling stake of infrastructure of the network, this is in economics terms slightly 'inefficient' pricing because it is one layer away from the value of the network itself which is impossible to value.

But if say 3 phone companies could join up and legally launch a network that they could 'assetise' and thus make the network itself TANGIBLE, then their pricing would be more efficient, i.e. directly proportional to network adoption. Whilst not violating any antitrust laws. This is very appealing to companies.

[Anonymous No.8714233]

>>8714093
Interesting. I was talking to my cousin at Easter Brunch yesterday, he was talking about a show called Black Mirror (I don’t watch shows), but the premise of the episode he was discussing seemed relevant (if I understood correctly). An AR world was proposed where people do certain actions in order to gain “social tokens” that heavily influence one’s reputation and ability to get into social events, be eligible for jobs, etc. This seems like a similar view you have whereby one’s veritable reputation could be stored on the blockchain (social, financial, educational histories) to be verified in the real and in digital worlds...

I suppose it is extra important in a more virtual world so that no one can get an upper hand by “hacking” centralized info for gain.

Getting really abstract.

[Anonymous No.8714267]

Is that you, Assblaster senpai?

[Anonymous No.8714368]

>>8714186
>>8714093
dude the way you write and your knowledge of fintech sounds a lot like fucking AB. either way thanks for the insight fren

[Anonymous No.8714379]

>>8714186
Can I have your email or something? I'd really like to learn more from you.

I'm 24, going to university for philosophy. I just started investing in cryptos recently.

You seem to know a lot. I'd really appreciate picking your brain sometime.

If you do decide. My email is [e-mail]

Thank you man...

[Anonymous No.8714411]

>>8714379
24 years old with an AOL email? Holy crap.

[Anonymous No.8714459]

>>8714186
Appreciate the interesting perspective though. Are you in USA or Europe?

[Anonymous No.8714484]

>>8714186
>this is what passes for intelligent on /biz/ in April of 2018
yikes

[Anonymous No.8714564]

>>8714484

Thank you for contributing to the conversation and presenting counter arguments/critiques to my analogy for how cryptocurrencies can incentivise good actors on decentralised networks.

>>8714379

Saved your email. Don't know if I'll message I'm pretty busy.

>>8714459

I go between New York and London as work demands.

>>8714233

Black Mirror is a retarded show imo, and while the social credit thing is kind of what I mean you may be reading too much into my analogy of society. I don't think blockchain will integrate into society that way anytime soon. In reality it will probably be used for far more banal networks, my point was just that the *only* unique feature of blockchain is that it essentially allows for anonymity (not talking about privacy like buying shit on the blackmarket, more like anonymity the way anyone can use a phone without having a special license) while solving the issue of bad actors. You give people anonymity + power, they will abuse it. Blockchain allows to you to incentivise supporting a network you benefit from. This is what is meant when experts talk about decentralisation. Unfortunately idiots seem to think decentralisation = a dating app with a built in cryptocurrency. As opposed to a phone network literally owned by the people who use it.

[Anonymous No.8714566]

>>8714233
Well you should make an exception and watch black mirror if you appreciate how easily we can twist ourselves into a dystopian future. It's one of the better shows out there

[Anonymous No.8714575]

>>8714484
How is postulating about the future either intelligent or unintelligent? He talked about an interesting perspective.

You shared a meme that gets shared 5000x daily. Well done. I know when to leave a thread, when the judgmental genius billionaire arrives.

Thanks for the conversation though anon.

[Anonymous No.8714588]

>>8714564
no problem! Hopefully you do friend.

Take care

[Anonymous No.8714607]

>>8714267
I think so

[Anonymous No.8714623]

>>8714566
The premise seemed interesting, I just never really want to watch fiction shows in my free time. Maybe I’ll try an episode tonight as a tester. Any recommendations. Is it a serial show or is each episode stand alone?

[Anonymous No.8714635]

>>8712870
Why are you guys calling it Renaissance?

It's usually called RenTech lol

Like if someone is well acquainted with 'Renaissance', they'd probably call it 'RenTech'

[Anonymous No.8714647]

>>8714566

I don't think it's a particularly well written shows. In fact I think the craft of fiction writing is in a poor state atm. Most black mirrors scenarios are presented as ostensibly plausible but are actually just thinly veiled 'imagine if X happened' with 0 attempt to actually portray X as a realistic consequence of the technology black mirror seeks to critique.

As an example I did my undergrad in a STEM subject and black mirror will take the hypothetical scenario of a 'superdrug' that makes everyone always happy, and imagine a world where someone builds a chip that triggers permanent happiness is used to make everyone a slave employee or some shit but then it fails for one person and they experience a hell scape of being unhappy in a world surrounded by happy people. That scenario is meant to make you gasp and think 'woah' but in reality it is implausible. If we ever where to derive a perfect model of the brain and all it's neurons, it becomes abundantly clear we'd bring back lobotomies. If people are willing to abandon agency for this 'happiness chip' it makes more sense, and will be available sooner and more cheaply, to surgically remove the parts of the brain making people unhappy. Leaving everyone in a vegetative state of pure ecstatic joy.

So my issue is black mirror is just lazy, it takes tired tropes that were innovative when Twilight Zone did them and shoehorns them into a thinly veiled critique of technology, while actively ignoring TRUE dystopian horrors.

[Anonymous No.8714649]

>>8714564
Do you go to any of the tech conventions in NY? I just moved away from Brooklyn a month ago. Went to an interesting one showcasing VR right before leaving,

[Anonymous No.8714670]

>>8714649

Nah, I'm not actually really into tech. I just learn what I have to for investment or work related reasons. I bought an oculus, used it twice and it's collecting dust on my shelf ever since.

[Anonymous No.8714685]

>>8714635
I’ve never heard anyone say this.

[Anonymous No.8714719]

>>8714564
So what exactly does anonymity mean to you? Because it sounds like you don't mean to say that each actor is completely anonymous, just that the interchangeability of actors is such that it doesn't really matter who the individuals are, that one could be substituted for another without consequence. Without privacy enforcing the anonymity, any individual could in theory be tracked down, so I'm confused how you could have anonymity without privacy

[Anonymous No.8714736]

>>8714670
STEM field related to medicine? Did you study biomedical engineering (my undergrad).

The closest thing they have to happy drug-releasing subdermal chips are the [relatively] new buprenorphine modalities that sustain year long blood plasma levels.

Biotech is my main area of investment interest now:CRISPR, mesenchymal stem cell drugs, etc.

[Anonymous No.8714745]

>>8714670
Ty for your time. What do you think about smartcontracts? And wouldnt they only work in a blockchain environment?

[Anonymous No.8714773]

>>8714685

https://www.rentec.com/Home.action?index=true

literally their website

low key have connections in the hedge fund industry

but you can go find out for yourself

[Anonymous No.8714831]

>>8714773
I’m not really in the financial world, my gf is. I think the whole space is entirely over saturated with nomenclature and abbreviations that at times seem to only serve the purpose of having an industry lingo obscure to “outsiders.”

[Anonymous No.8714832]

>>8714623
>>8714623
Season 3 was overall a good one, and the episode you mentioned is the first episode. The first four episodes have pretty different characters that gives a good impression of the show's scope.

Each episode is stand alone so it's not like you have to invest in a narrative. It's like twilight zone.. If you've ever seen that

[Anonymous No.8714862]

>>8714831
man this entire thread sounds like finance pop culture level speak

'stochastic calculus' lmao

[Anonymous No.8714866]

>>8714832
Okay, cool, thank you. I may put on an episode before bed tonight to give it a try.

[Anonymous No.8714909]

>>8714670
what do you think about what AssBlaster says

[Anonymous No.8714921]

>>8714670

Come on man just tell us $1000 EOY. This is a goddamn LINK thread bro. I appreciate the info but you can't just act like a smartass and write humorless paragraphs like that

[Anonymous No.8714963]

>>8714635

This is bait.

>>8714719

It's quite late so I forgot the actual word but essentially I mean free use. As in anyone can jump right in, when you pay for internet or phone service you're paying for the infrastructure, since as I said earlier the network is actually free use. In other words I can take someone elses phone and use it, I can use anyone else internet etc. I don't need a license and unless I violate a law there is no penalty for 'bad acting'. So imagine if a network was decentralised whilst retaining free use, how would you punish people who don't maintain the network (e.g. intentionally drop peoples calls etc) without having some sort of licensing system which would be cost prohibitive and extremely restrictive. Blockchain technology can incentivise network users and while it can be transparent (so not private) it doesn't necessarily have to be tied to your address or legal name etc. Essentially it can punish you without knowing who you are since it punishes you by not rewarding you with currency. Right now the bitcoin network is a very primitive network that only serves the purposes of transferring bitcoins.

>>8714736

I meant to change drug, I mean if in 20 years we hypothetically create the perfect pathway of neurons so that you can push a button and your brain would 'experience' eating a chocolate souffle. Like a portable on demand matrix, but without disrupting consciousness. That technology, if discovered, is less likely to be employed than high tech lobotomies for reasons I covered earlier.

>>8714745

They would unless, if we decide to go crazy and just play devils advocate, the government created its own smart contract system which would be a centralised ledger. I don't think this will happen, but theoretically the gov't already has a monopoly on real life legislation, so there's nothing stopping them. As in legally nothing stopping them, tons of practical reasons they won't

>>8714773

But no one actually calls them that in convo.

[Anonymous No.8714969]

>>8714862
I admittedly don’t know what stochastic calculus is. If I ever learned it, I forgot.

[Anonymous No.8714986]

>>8714647
I think a more interesting scenario wouldn't be the failure of the happiness chip that causes the unfortunate victim to be always unhappy, but to play out the consequences of forcing people to live in an artificially happy world. Like it starts off innocently enough with pleasant neighborly people, but the problem arises when people don't seem to have a proper survival instinct or can't make good judgements. And it's because we need things in our lives that don't feel good to teach us how to make our way I the world. What's interesting is how we want to eliminate everything unpleasant, but in reaching our seemingly well intentioned goal, we bring about our demise. It's more how our intentions fail us, and how we are at the mercy of following ourselves to our failure. Like I love Kurt Vonnegut, player piano was his first novel. It's not his mature style of writing, but I really like the idea of humans wanting to build technology until that have brought about their own obscelecence. It's about how we can't help ourselves. Our success is our failure

[Anonymous No.8714992]

>>8714969

It's the bread and butter of financial maths. Stochastic just means related to random processes, or the order of random processes.

[Anonymous No.8715092]

>>8714986

Yeah but the more horrifying reality is one by one people would opt for more cost effective lobotomies. Follow this hypothetical out, based on the episode San Junipero.

Actually think using game theory what the logical outcome would be given these conditions:

1)Immortality
2)Perfect brain interface (every possible arrangement of electrical signals is mapped and encoded, any feeling/state can be on demand simulated, aka 'perfect' VR)

So first 10 years you relive approaching a girl, falling in love, being with her, making love etc, you reset and relive this perfect scripted scenario.

Then consider this, if we have a perfect brain interface, and you're going to be alive forever, why spend thousands of years going through the motions of the small talk and the first kiss and the sex etc when you can trigger the 'reward' of having experienced these things. Given two assumptions: every experience is sought out for the reward, any reward can be electrochemically recreated.

If you're immortal you want to conserve energy because you're gonna be around until heat death, so it makes sense to just go straight to FEELING like you just fell in love, had sex, had kids, etc. hit the exact chemical composition of each experience.

Then you realise that this is also inefficient since it becomes more efficient to just create one perfect emotional state and 'loop' it without time perception

Then you realise that if you're in a loop experiencing the best chemically possible sensation you don't really need the part of your brain that solves algebra

Start deleting every unused function to save energy.

The logical conclusion (shortened) is that the second you are willing to exchange agency and randomness for instant gratification, you may as well skip straight to comatose state where everything in your brain besides your spinal cord and a few bits of your amygdala are deleted. Even if you fear losing those parts of your brain now, once they're gone you can't miss them.

[Anonymous No.8715120]

>>8714963
>>8714963
Whether bait or not, I know finance people love to abbreviate everything, but I’ve literally never heard “Rentec” and it is a company in which I’ve gotten pretty interested since they’re pretty much vastly outperforming everyone.

Oh well. I think you supposed neurological state is pretty far fetched from a “neuron firing” perspective. But I greatly believe in the ability to manipulate neurochemistry in a way to control behavior with seeming specificity. Plenty of examples of this achieved through parasitism in various organisms. The pathways exist in our brains.

The chocolate soufflé pleasure pathway (largely dopamine) can be manipulated with many drugs, but “well being” is a much more complex and misunderstood state.

I’m digressing though.

[Anonymous No.8715262]

Well I’m off for the night guys. Nice talking to you all. G’night.

[Anonymous No.8715273]

>>8715092
You're either describing nirvana or being a junky and I can't tell which

[Anonymous No.8715292]

>>8715262

You faggots should've gotten a room

That was gay as fuck

[Anonymous No.8715367]

>>8711875
>top down mandate at ML

Is there any other kind at ML? Talk about quacks, they're good at getting people to give them their money, but they're fucking brainlets to the last man. I mean, you'd have to be to work at a place like that. Me and my partners jumped ship for RJ, and it really seems like the last bastion of independence for advisors

[Anonymous No.8715379]

>>8715367
all the bulge brackets and huge brokerage houses suck.

[Anonymous No.8715386]

>>8712136
You’re a faggot. My graduate Econ (((professor))) who previousoy worked at the Fed said it was “backed by nothing.”

[Anonymous No.8715609]

fuck this thread, it's long as hell and there isn't any new kind of LINK shilling i can jerk off to
sage

[Anonymous No.8715838]

>>8715273

I can't imagine the world lasting 100 more years.

WW3 or SmallPox 2.0 will wipe out 98% of the population and the rest will live in bunkers or floating fortresses.

[Anonymous No.8715920]

>>8711705
My dad use to work in the hedge fund department at Microsoft. He's not there anymore but he still has good connections and insight to whats going on. The basic consensus at MS (thats what insiders call microsoft) is that crypto has been dead in the water for a while, around 17 wallets hold 84% of all tokens and 2 mining pools run the show, some French guys operate as the figure heads as far as i know.

[Anonymous No.8715969]

>>8711705
Not true

Here is actually how 'hedge fund people' view it

"replacing fiat? ahahahahahahahhahahahhahHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH"

"You know, the underlying tech is where it's at though."

[Anonymous No.8715991]

>>8715386
It's backed by consent. Fiat is only backed by violence. It's a stupid argument.

[Anonymous No.8716756]

>>8712683
>>8712475

Based anon, thanks.

[Anonymous No.8716765]

>>8711535
A
YUNG
BOI

[Anonymous No.8716927]

>>8715609
Half the thread is basically shilling LINK if you read the discussion.

[Anonymous No.8717074]

tfw your Nexus (NXS) is going 1000x this year

[Anonymous No.8717322]

we waz impatient

[Anonymous No.8717557]

TLDR
when lambo?