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/biz/ - Business & Finance

File: 4 KB, 1263x205, bitmex-logo-alt-white.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Sun Mar 18 23:43:43 2018 No.8431067 [Reply] [Original]

Why is shorting so weird?
> BTC price goes down 90%, you make less than when it goes down 30%???

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 18 23:46:16 2018 No.8431105 or wait is the current profit added to the position so your margin profit steadily increases while its going down?

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 18 23:52:54 2018 No.8431196 >>8431067 Because you are a dirty BitMexican getting fleeced.

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 18 23:53:00 2018 No.8431200 >>8431105 from the sound of it I don't think you're ready to short

>>	Anonymous Sun Mar 18 23:55:43 2018 No.8431239 >>8431067 wtf do you even mean? learn math you retard also you make more shorting than you do long at bitmex for the same price move use the calculator

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:15:38 2018 No.8431555 >>8431239 He's right though. There is diminishing returns on shorting.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:19:20 2018 No.8431607

>>8431239
>Short 1 BTC at 10k USD with 10x leverage
> BTC goes down 30% -> close position -> now have 4 BTC at 7k USD == 28k USD -> 18k USD profit
> Now imagine you close your position when bitcoin went down 90% -> now have 10 BTC at 1k USD -> 0$ profit or loss

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:19:30 2018 No.8431611 >>8431105 you just don't have enough leverage.... make sure it's set to 100% to maximize your gains. bitmex also let's you play with the leverage slider so you can see what your costs and stuff move it to 100 and see what it would look like

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:19:42 2018 No.8431613 >>8431239 I think what he means is that your stack becomes more and more worthless as it falls, even though you're making btc the whole way. I don't personally know the math but yeah

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:21:00 2018 No.8431629 Thats what im currently thinking of but i have no idea if maybe the unrealised potential is added on to your position so you would actually make more because your position enlarges when BTC is going down more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:23:08 2018 No.8431662 >>8431611 Its 100x (times) not % thats like a 50x difference bro.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:28:09 2018 No.8431722 It just hit me that /biz/ is filled with literal retards.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:31:30 2018 No.8431767 >>8431722 Mr Smart why dont you just enlighten us with your brightness?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:31:43 2018 No.8431774 >>8431722 Welcome

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:34:10 2018 No.8431809 >>8431722 Show your gains mr smarty pants

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:44:47 2018 No.8431935 >>8431607 1BTC at 10K with 10x means you sold 100k in contracts @ $1 per contract, it drops to 1k you buy back all those contracts at 10K meaning 9k profit.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:45:49 2018 No.8431948 >>8431935 90k not 9k

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 00:50:07 2018 No.8432003 >>8431935 profit = volumeleverage delta That's all there is to it ffs

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:11:45 2018 No.8432901 >>8431555 >>8431607 >>8431613 short 1000 contracts from 10k to 8k you get 0.0250 or 125% roe long 1000 contracts from 8k to 10k on 5x you get 0.0250 or 100% roe that means you make more you goddamn fucking brainlets.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:17:30 2018 No.8432947 There is a difference whether you get paid usd or btc. OP is right, you are part long btc with your initial. If your leverage is not higher than the drop, you lose.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:24:51 2018 No.8433007

>>8431239
>also you make more shorting than you do long at bitmex for the same price move
What? No. Not in terms of real USD value. Because Bitmex is settled in Bitcoin, it's far more profitable to be long for the same price move.

If you shorted 10,000 to 7,500 with 1x leverage using one bitcoin, you would have 1.33333... bitcoin * 7500 = 10k USD

If you longed Bitcoin from 10k to 12.5k, you would have 1.2 bitcoin * 12.5 = 15k USD

Being long on Bitmex is far more profitable than being short.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:26:18 2018 No.8433021

>>8432947
you're retarded bud, just less retarded than the op.
if you're not short more than 1x, you're not short, you're hedged.
to be short, you need to actually be short.
as in greater than 1x for real, as in you own 100k, you short more than 100k.
if you sell 110k, you're short 10k.
the point being if it drops 90% you make way fucking more than 30% drop because if you're not totally fucking stupid you can see that 90% is way fucking more than 30%

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:27:22 2018 No.8433031 >>8433007 >>8433021

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:33:09 2018 No.8433095 >>8433021 Works out the same because it's settled in BTC, you get higher "ROE %" but same USD value because the asset settled in is the same one you're shorting.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:36:55 2018 No.8433131 >>8432901 0.02508,000 = $200 0.025010,000 = $250 your long example made more money lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:37:18 2018 No.8433136 File: 8 KB, 213x237, 1516285498078.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I'M STILL CONFUSED

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:40:45 2018 No.8433163 >>8433136 Bitmex requires you to own Bitcoin to short Bitcoin. Shorting an asset you own is pretty retarded. If it goes to 0 you get nothing lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:44:04 2018 No.8433194 >>8433163 That's always true though. If it went to zero yuou couldn't close the short.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:45:29 2018 No.8433204

>>8433021
I think you don’t realize your own stupidity. If you short with 10x leverage and btc drops 90%, how much profit do you have compared to your initial? You’ll have 10x more btc but it’s worth 10x less than initially. This is different from shorting stocks since with stocks your positions is long usd, short stock. With bitmex you are long btc AND short btc, just with different exposures.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:54:14 2018 No.8433293
File: 24 KB, 412x246, for the dumbest nigger in the thread.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8433095
>>8433007
you are not short if you don't sell more than 1x lol
you hedge 1x at 10k then short 1x to $7500 you would have 2.6666xbt worth $20,000
if you long 1x at 10k to$12,500 you would have 1.2 xbc worth $15,000
>>8433131
>20% roe is more than 25% roe
>hurrrrrr
>t.actual real life retard

>>8433204
>pic related
for you

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 02:58:25 2018 No.8433342 >>8433293 tell us where we can find this calculator

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:05:37 2018 No.8433409

>>8433293
20% ROE long on bitmex is the same as 25% ROE short on bitmex in that case because you're still measuring your ROE in bitcoin instead of fiat.

You're making "more" in bitcoin by shorting bitcoin but you're not making more in USD.

10k to $1 short with 10x leverage -> 9,999 XBT gain valued at $9,999

10k to 19,999 long with 10x leverage -> 0.5 XBT gain valued at $9,999.5

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:06:54 2018 No.8433425 >>8433409 That's trading 10,000 contracts obviously

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:13:49 2018 No.8433496
File: 43 KB, 417x194, here.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>8433409
if you long 1x on bitmex, you're actually 2x long on bitcoin, or the equivalent of buying another bitcoin on coinbase.
if you short 1x on bitmex, you're actually flat on bitcoin, or the equivalent of selling your coin on coinbase and having nothing
think it though, I know you can figure it out.

>>8433342
>it be tharr

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:19:31 2018 No.8433552 >>8433293 >For you You just proved his point. You show a short that gives 10x Bitcoin but the Bitcoin is worth 1/10th the price. That's exactly what his post was saying.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:20:33 2018 No.8433565

>>8433496
>if you long 1x on bitmex, you're actually 2x long on bitcoin, or the equivalent of buying another bitcoin on coinbase.
>if you short 1x on bitmex, you're actually flat on bitcoin, or the equivalent of selling your coin on coinbase and having nothing
You are right on this but it doesn't change the fact that you make the same amount of USD for same move in price no matter the leverage, and longing is more profitable if the price of BTC doubles.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:34:33 2018 No.8433682 File: 212 KB, 1218x1015, 1520982945620.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] STILL FUCKIGN CONFUSED

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 03:56:47 2018 No.8433863 >>8433552 >900% profit >9000% roe or did I >>8433565 >longing is more profitable if the price of BTC doubles. only if you don't compare it properly lol

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 04:12:32 2018 No.8433998 >>8433863 nah Say bitcoin is 10k It goes to 0 or it goes to 20k, both 10k movements in price but with very lopsided returns. How much does your short make if Bitcoin goes to 0?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 04:15:15 2018 No.8434032 wait yea you have to short btc faster than it goes down in Bitmexico since it settles in bitcoin. On the other hand it's not like fiat is really good for anything so I'd rather accumulate btc and know that I'm set for the next 20x btc run

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 05:31:35 2018 No.8434649 Anyone using Bitmex have experience with VPNs? I'm in a jurisdiction that they don't serve but I wanna gamble too. :(

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 05:54:47 2018 No.8434785 >>8431722 Only now?

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 06:05:20 2018 No.8434871 >>8433194 Not if you shorted with USD retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 06:08:56 2018 No.8434911 >>8434871 >Bitmex >shorting with USD

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 06:12:17 2018 No.8434946 >>8431067 Great question, I never see anyone bring this up. Your margin and short position profits devalue with bitcoin, which leads to diminishing returns. You lose money if bitcoin falls lower than 1/leverage * entry.

Anonymous Mon Mar 19 07:32:44 2018 No.8435771

>>8434649
Everyone on there uses them. You only need it for the account signup. Everything else can be from a US (or wherever) connection. It's your risk, though. Technically it's illegal so I wouldn't put any more than you're willing to lose on a BitMex acc

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 07:52:47 2018 No.8435970 Ive been curous about this myself. Longing has to be more profitable than shorting when there is equivalent p/l %. Since you have to use xbt to short. You would want to put up usd to short xbt.

>>	Anonymous Mon Mar 19 09:07:12 2018 No.8436743 File: 64 KB, 1066x600, know that feel brainlet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] ITT

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