/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.7759797]

Most 1st world countries tax crypto-crypto trades, and if you live in them you should report and pay your taxes because it will be far cheaper in the long term, and eliminate the chance of having your assets frozen as well as jailtime for tax fraud.

I have researched this to death and consulted multiple tax attorneys.

Unless you are making under 10k$ or over 10M$ profit, you are going to want to pay taxes on trades because it will fuck you over royally later in life.

all the /biz/ memes about how to evade are idiotic unless you've got 8 figures, and even then it's dangerous (billionaires with swiss bank acounts got fucked) and may well limit you to living in third world countries

when you cash out anything over 10k (and yes splitting it up will not work dipshit, it's called structuring) you get a SAR filed on you, if you don't do taxes on that you're directly fucked of course

When you do your taxes you have to have your TRADE HISTORY, the burdeon of proof is on YOU to show where the coins came from. Obviously if you bought 10 BTC in 2011 and now have equivalent of 50 BTC, you made trades or mined. those are taxable and you didn't report them.

No, monero will not help at all and will in fact hurt because it will trigger a higher chance at an audit, which is already high for people involved in crypto.

Basically the only thing you could gamble doing is forging trades that would have made you that amount, but you take a number of risks here and will pay short term capital gains which in the end costs you more than just reporting and paying long term capital gains.

So even the only 'decent' way for avoiding taxes is more expensive than just paying them.

The system is setup this way and has been through multiple generations of people who had the same thought which you did and have all been defeated by it.

Last but not least, don't forget the whole point is the system has a PUBLIC LEDGER.

I'm sure I'll be called an IRS shill, but I am just a risk-averse autist

[Anonymous No.7759825]

Please feel free to post methods you think will evade taxes and i will shoot them full of holes.

I do not want to see /biz/tards go to jail or end up paying massive amounts in fees and penaltys

[Anonymous No.7759935]

Bump

[Anonymous No.7759977]

>>7759797
>Getting crypto frozen

Fuck off boomer

[Anonymous No.7759984]

another tax fag thread lol

[Anonymous No.7759999]

>>7759797
unfortunately /biz/ is very poor, less than 10k in income a year so this doesn't apply to them. just a boatload of poorfags here.

[Anonymous No.7760009]

Gtfo irshills

[Anonymous No.7760026]

>>7759977
No, they'll just freeze all the accounts you need for real life.

[Anonymous No.7760028]

the only purpose of forging trades would be to claim a long term gain v a short term gain, there is no other use, tx history quickly becomes a liability if queried though

[Anonymous No.7760042]

>>7760026
What real life

[Anonymous No.7760050]

>>7759977
>get your life frozen

[Anonymous No.7760085]

>>7760028
Except since long term gains are over 1 year, any forged trades would by definition show that you did not pay tax the previous year.

[Anonymous No.7760109]

>>7759797
>1st world countries tax crypto-crypto trad
Name those burger

[Anonymous No.7760123]

>>7760109
The heart of the EU (and your ruler, if you are part of it), Germany, taxes crypto-crypto trades

[Anonymous No.7760132]

>he didn't buy btc person to person or at an atm
>he doesn't proxy and VPN all his trades
>he leaves a trail

[Anonymous No.7760160]

>>7760085
I don't have crypto-crypto tax regulations in my country yet, but I'm curious. What if I would say that I bought that amount of bitcoins a long time ago and I cannot show any proof couse it was on an exchange which has dissapeared, like mt gox?

[Anonymous No.7760186]

>>7760123
Holy fuck that's two of them. Wow, we're all fucked.

Just hire an advisor before you want to cash out and move to any favourable EU country. You don't have to live there, just get a residance and bank account.

[Anonymous No.7760203]

>>7759999
quads of truth. 99.99% of biz only have a few hundred or a thousand in crypto

[Anonymous No.7760207]

>>7760160
Actually the funny thing is since gox got hacked and their trade DB dumped, you can recover your trade records if you have the email address you used. I did this.

however since it is a public ledger if you still have the private keys from the wallets that you used, you can show mathematically you owned those coins at a certain date.

You could either estimate the rpice you bought at or use a 0$ cost basis. since it went up SO much, a 0$ cost basis doesn't really cost you much of anything and is the safest bet since it's the most conservative

[Anonymous No.7760221]

>>7760132
Lol doesn’t matter dude. What are gonna do, sell your btc for physical fiat?

[Anonymous No.7760244]

>>7760160
Nothing, we're years away from them to be able to prove shit.

Just pay your income tax when you cash out and you're covered.

Other possible issues: I participated in an ICO, how to prove that?
I just sent them eth and got tokens back to that address, no record whatsoever

[Anonymous No.7760277]

>>7760221
That is one option if you want to literally cash out

[Anonymous No.7760293]

>>7760186
You would have to renounce US citizenship for this to work, residency in another country isn't enough. So you'd have to secure citizenship before doing this

>>7760244
Just report it as if it were a trade and keep the TXID for your records, and maybe a bit of info on what coin you were buying. If you have to argue about it it's cryptographically proven you made the transaction.

[Anonymous No.7760294]

I notice any tax threads people get a little TOO upset about other anons paying their taxes on trade to trade. At this point I think any one who tries this hard to FUD is just a salty no coiner

[Anonymous No.7760303]

>>7760042
this
just move outta there and take the key with you MUAHAHA

[Anonymous No.7760401]

>>7760293
I'm talking the eurofag situation here. I can live in whichever EU state I like, if I can either work or provide for myself and not harm the society.

How is it a trade? What's the value, if it's not fixed in FIAT but eth oraz btc? There are different exchanges with possible arbitrage.
In my country you cannot report the value of that because there is no National Bank official exchange rate for crypto. Nor the transaction history for anonymous eth address is any kind of prove. It's just impossible due to regulations.

[Anonymous No.7760580]

>>7760207
Do you think it's feasable to delay having to pay your taxes for 1-3 years if you haven't cashed anything out yet? I have a feeling the gains will outweigh interests, penalties, and also being it becoming long term gains.
Only asking because I didn't cash anything out at ATH and since the market crash brought my holdings to less than half of what it was in 2017, I can't pay taxes on that without liquidating my coins which are obviously more valuable long term.
Living in Canada but I hear the laws are similar if not the same basically.

[Anonymous No.7760617]

>>7759825
be switzerland resident
declare crypto gains
pay swiss capital gains as an amateur investor (0%)
pay taxes on fortune (0.1% of networth)
shoot this down

[Anonymous No.7760681]

>>7760580
If you underreport income by 25% or more worse than if you don't iirc. (at the minimum it extends the time for an audit) It's somewhat interesting of an idea though since i think interest caps at 25%

[Anonymous No.7760795]

>Put in a cell with rapists and murderers because you didn't give the government their extortion money.

I hate this world.

[Anonymous No.7760839]

>>7760795
it sucks but it's reality

[Anonymous No.7760886]

>>7759797
Who will freeze my assets when i have them in cash? Are you retarded. Lmao

[Anonymous No.7760929]

>>7760839
Since I day trade (Canada here), do I really have to go through every single trade I did and report that? Can't I just do my initial fiat -> btc and btc->fiat? I mean I must have something like 5000 trades over the last few months on every which exchange and alt coin. I've never even done taxes before it seems a little excessive to have every trade reported

[Anonymous No.7760939]

How about just don’t pay and tell the gov you don’t but internet ponzi money.

[Anonymous No.7760948]

This is why I exclusively trade USD->coin. Coin/coin exchanging is a fucking hassle unless your full-time job is trading. I'm just accumulating and holding anyway, so I won't have a taxable event till 2020+ at a low LT cap gains tax rate.

[Anonymous No.7760966]

>>7760929
I don't know canadian tax law.

I used bitcoin.tax to calculate my taxes, it imports from the major good exchanges. shit exchanges like kucoin you'll need to enter manually unfortunately.

I ctrl+c ctrl+v'd my trades there into spreadsheets from their shitty website

[Anonymous No.7760976]

>>7760795
They have different prisons for nonviolent offenders. If anything you'll be able to network with some Wall Street Jews while you're in the pokey.

[Anonymous No.7760990]

>>7759797

die die die pig die come and take it copper

[Anonymous No.7760995]

Can't believe all this buttons and numbers I clicked on in something that looks like computer game could get me in trouble

[Anonymous No.7761009]

>>7760995
>i can't believe pressing buttons and numbers trading regular stocks means i owe money to the government

you guys do realize the reason this is all taxed is daytraders in the 90s, right

[Anonymous No.7761011]

Here for Deutschland/Österreich

https://www.bmf.gv.at/steuern/kryptowaehrung_Besteuerung.html

https://www.bitcoinmag.de/bitcoin-handel/Bitcoin-Altcoin-steuererklaerung-steuer-steuerrecht-steuerfrei-veraeusserungsgeschaeft-Bitcoinrecht/a-106

Here we have the 1-year rule and so thankfully I knew that even before buying BTC this year and acted accordingly. Now I have 3k taxable gains and 400k tax free gains.

>>7760929
You can download the csv files with all your trading history on the exchanges and use
cointracking.com
for computing your taxable gains. For computation service over 200 trades you need to pay $200 though, although they take BTC so it's trivial to pay.

[Anonymous No.7761030]

>>7761011
The germans i've talked with don't believe this law will stay around, what is your take anon

[Anonymous No.7761032]

Public transactions are one thing, and Coinbase will probably report everything to every government. But what about small chink exchanges, if I keep stuff there can't I just wait to declare it? I'd much rather have some gains from 2017 reported for 2018 considering my losses so far.

If I do everything legit I'll pay 1/2 of my current portfolio value in taxes for 2017.

[Anonymous No.7761086]

>>7761032
You’re asking for tax help on /biz bro. Either call some pros or just wing it yourself. Don’t listen to any faggot on here

[Anonymous No.7761093]

>>7761032
>But what about small chink exchanges, if I keep stuff there can't I just wait to declare it? I'd much rather have some gains from 2017 reported for 2018 considering my losses so far.
almost certainly, but then you'll be declaring that you didn't report gains and will have to pay interest, fines, risk audit, etc.

actually you already owe probably because Q4 2017 gains were due Jan 15th 2018 (estimated tax)

[Anonymous No.7761104]

>>7760681
So are you saying that, if I go this route of holding my coins to pay taxes later, I shouldn't report this income at all since it's worse than underreporting?

[Anonymous No.7761108]

>>7759797
Well I signed my dad up on Coinbase since my account got frozen back in 2014 and have been using his account to do purchases since last year. Basically I have been withdrawing my money from my bank account, putting it into his bank account, and buying coins that way.

How will we be taxed on this? Who will be taxed, me or my dad? Haven't sold anything yet

[Anonymous No.7761112]

>>7761086
this, though there's nothing wrong with discussing on /biz/ before talking to a tax attorney. If you can't afford a tax attorney your gains don't matter because you're a small fry

NOTE : DO NOT TALK TO A CPA. CPA'S DO NOT HAVE LEGAL PRIVILEGE AND ***WILL*** RAT YOU OUT.

[Anonymous No.7761139]

>>7761104
Not reporting income/gains from crypto is underreporting income..

>>7761108
No clue. Talk to an attorney. It could be far worse since it's transactions made in the name of another.

[Anonymous No.7761142]

>>7759797
nobody has to know about your holdings. unless you are holding monero on an exchange you have nothing to worry about. Think about it.

[Anonymous No.7761144]

>>7761030
I can well imagine that they create a EU wide law, but passing laws takes time and - at least I suppose - they won't be as crazy as to retroactively correct the taxes upwards. Not sure if such a thing have happened before, for already paid taxes.

I personally know people in the 500 million dollar range (people who participared in ETH, IOTA, NEO etc. ICO's, and several of them) and I looked it up and did the math and if BTC were to do another 100x, them we would have so many normies in the billion dollar range, and so many of the top 1000 richest people worldwide being crypto neets, that I just don't see that happen, and so I think the price explosion in 2017 will not repeat itself.
So good I was there and I'll go with my 400k.

[Anonymous No.7761147]

>>7759797
I only made like an $1800 profit last year and I reported it but I haven't received my tax refund and my gf already did on Thursday even though we filed on the same day. Should I be worried?

[Anonymous No.7761191]

>>7761147
>1800$ profit
nobody cares, but if you start making 18k you should.
if crypto goes up a lot, set some aside to pay your taxes and if you are very conservative (like me) -- amend your old return and pay a fine, then you never have to worry about it and are 100% safe in any audit situation. It will be worth it and would be peanuts compared to gains.

[Anonymous No.7761214]

>>7759797
how much tax is payed on purchasing drugs on darknet? is that fifo or lifo?

[Anonymous No.7761245]

>>7759825
Evade taxes by killing yourself.

[Anonymous No.7761253]

are transaction fees counted as capital loss?

[Anonymous No.7761313]

>>7761214
If you buy 1 BTC at 10,000 and it grows to 13,000 and you then tip a youtuber or gift your mother 1 BTC for her birthday, you spend it and will technically have to pay taxes on the 3000 gains you made. The logic is that you gifter her 3000 more than you otherwise (if you hadn't speculated and bought bitcoin) could have, so you made gains and those are taxed.
It doesn't matter where you spent it to, or who owns the receiving address, if it's not yours.

In Austria/Germany the default is FIFO but if you do it consistently, you can actually choose the gains evaluation.

>>7761253
just use cointracter.com, mate. And fees are just costs you pay/spend your BTC on.

[Anonymous No.7761350]

I am ok with paying taxes but the precident being set for coin to coin transactions cannot be allowed. We have to fight this even if it means potential jail time and having to deal with high fines. We cannot allow them to enforce a rule where digital goods can be taxed without ever being realized gains.

They will use this power to attack and censor jail anyone they want who is involved with crypto. It will also mean that all digital assets will be hit by this same law. Video games, social media you name it.

We have to fight this. The law has to be changed back to what it was where you pay only when you cash out. Otherwise simply playing an MMO will result in having to pay massive fines. Using social media that has crypto to say hate speech will be used to put you in jail.

This is a power play and it is going to be used to destroy not only crypto but the ability to build any kind of value on anything other than fiat.

The first line of defense against this will be for us to take a strong look at proof of stake style wallet systems. For example Steemit has a Steem power system that is currently not covered under the current tax law. ETH will also be doing a proof of stake style system.

Proof of stake systems mean trading your coins in for the promise to be able to create no coins at a later time. Steem power is one of the only examples of this I have seen. Steem power is not a cryptocurrency and cannot be taxed.

[Anonymous No.7761363]

youre all idiots. If you havent invested or are looking to invest more do so under a self directed Roth IRA. you pay 25% taxes up front but all earnings are tax free. If that hasnt been how you entered crytpo over the last few years just kill yourself. Im about to roll almost 1M into traditional market cap mutuals with all those juicy gains...probably will retire at 45.

[Anonymous No.7761390]

>>7761313
can we expect darknet drug dealers to start sending 1099s soon?

[Anonymous No.7761410]

>>7761363
best part about this "hack" is its 100% legit. Pay the 150 bucks for 15 minutes of a expat tax attorney.

[Anonymous No.7761430]

>>7759797
>when you cash out anything over 10k (and yes splitting it up will not work dipshit, it's called structuring) you get a SAR filed on you,
No you don't asshole. SAR is only for cash deposits.

[Anonymous No.7761529]

We NEED to begin threads to talk about tax avoidance. Coins that offer special systems that transform a coin or skirt tax laws will be highly valued.

[Anonymous No.7761531]

>>7761350
>I am ok with paying taxes but the precident being set for coin to coin transactions cannot be allowed
This precedent was set in the 90s with stock trading.

Fighting it is a matter of game theory. I'm not going to risk fines or jail. I'll let other people do that. Especially as many are stupid enough to think they won't be caught.

[Anonymous No.7761548]

>>>7761032 (You)
>call some pros
Asking for help about obviously illegal tax evasion though, not sure who to call.

[Anonymous No.7761570]

>>7761531
>I'm not going to risk fines or jail. I'll let other people do that.
that's my life philosophy, although, as I mentioned before I'm pretty comfy for now

[Anonymous No.7761600]

>>7761363
self directed roth IRA sounds interesting. But are you saying you're cashing most or all of your crypto gains out and putting them into the regular stock market?

[Anonymous No.7761680]

>>7761531
>This precedent was set in the 90s with stock trading.

No it wasnt. There is a big difference now. Stocks cannot be traded for stocks directly. Every time you move in the stock market you actually cash out after every single transaction. So it works out pretty well.

Crypto to crypto is a fundementally different situation where no money is ever actually generated and they wrote the law to PRETEND THAT WHATEVER THEY THINK IS WHAT YOU MADE WAS WHAT YOU MADE. They can say anything they want at that part because its 100% subjective to say what your actual profits were. If they feel like it they can say the ATH of that week is what you made.

It also brings ALL digital assets under the same scrutiny. THIS CANNOT BE ALLOWED.

[Anonymous No.7761718]

>>7761600
I just did a little googling. It looks like you set up the IRA where bitcoin is the investment so you don't need to fuck with stocks. Can someone with more knowledge confirm?

[Anonymous No.7761770]

>>7761139
Not really, I mean it's my money, my cash. It's done in the name of another, but it's just like me giving them money, and them going out and buying something for me.

If we sell, it should be him selling, right? Then that would be taxed just like normal as if he had the gains, just like if I gave someone money and they bought something, they're taxed on it.

If I sold and I made the money, that would be different, but at the same time, it's basically like someone giving me coins for free and me selling them, so I should just be taxed on them like normal, right?

So basically whatever happens, even if you don't have the records, just pay whatever taxes are owed (you can say you got the coins for free and be taxed the highest amount, whatever) and you'll be fine

[Anonymous No.7761781]

Also I'm going to guess that in a self directed roth IRA you can't make crypto-crypto transactions, which fucks it over since you're stuck making a super long term gamble.

[Anonymous No.7761805]

>>7761770
>you can say you got the coins for free and be taxed the highest amount, whatever) and you'll be fine
that's more expensive than reporting though

[Anonymous No.7761823]

>>7761363
And then you can't get the IRA funds until what, 20 years?

[Anonymous No.7761856]

>>7761823
yeah also fuck that

i'll stick with holding and taking long term capital gains

[Anonymous No.7761875]

thank god i stopped day trading before the massive bullrun

[Anonymous No.7761881]

https://cointracking.info/

https://bitcoin.tax/signup

/thread

[Anonymous No.7761882]

>>7761805
You sure about that? If you say you got them for free a few years back, could you just file an amendment on your taxes and pay long term gains taxes rather than have to deal with short term gains taxes?

[Anonymous No.7761886]

>>7761781
wrong...youre free to trade as you want same as youre free to reallocate your holdings in a roth IRA

[Anonymous No.7761891]

>>7761805
Its good that you shouldnt be reporting it anyway. The IRS cannot be allowed to use arbitrary rules to tax people whatever they want. They cannot be allowed to jail or fine people for breaking completely subjective rules.

DO NOT ALLOW THIS! The IRS WILL ABUSE THIS POWER!

[Anonymous No.7761907]

>>7761350
I can't see this mentality take on, because if you are going to argue from such an autonomous ideological frame, then why do you consider crypto-crypto trades not as realized gains? You realize you imply that fiat is the currency to measure gains by? If you take your thought to the end, then trading cryptos is making raw gains, and it should be independent of cashing out to fiat.

[Anonymous No.7761979]

>>7760293
>You would have to renounce US citizenship for this to work, residency in another country isn't enough. So you'd have to secure citizenship before doing this
What if you don't secure citizenship somewhere else?

[Anonymous No.7761986]

>>7761886
Interesting. If I wasn't moving from the US to Germany where I can get 0% long term capital gains tax i'd consider it

[Anonymous No.7762006]

>>7761891

What's ridiculous about all this is there is actually no real LAWS on how to handle crypto, it's all the IRS making shit up as they go, yet other agencies of the federal government have completely contradictory guidelines on what Bitcoin is. Some think its a commodity, others treat it like a security.

[Anonymous No.7762014]

>>7761979
then you're a stateless citizen.. not a good place to be

[Anonymous No.7762047]

>>7761856
Exactly this. They can't tax you unless you cash out. And the only people who should cash out are those that have 500K in their wallets. Looks like nobody wants to pay any taxes at all. I don't mind it if I get 60-70% of the cash out amount. That's like 350k.

If you got shitcoins, you can hope they moon.

[Anonymous No.7762092]

>>7762047
>If you got shitcoins, you can hope they moon.
or harvest them for capital losses

[Anonymous No.7762175]

>>7759797
One question I do have. How do you think taxes will work for an ETH game? I played EtherDungeon a lot to pass the time during the crash. I have almost 400 txns on my gaming wallet as a result. Am I fucked?

[Anonymous No.7762191]

>>7762014
Why? I am genuinly curious

[Anonymous No.7762235]

>>7761805
You won't be taxed 100% of the sold coins, maybe 33% at the worst, right?

[Anonymous No.7762256]

>>7761907
>can't see this mentality take on, because if you are going to argue from such an autonomous ideological frame, then why do you consider crypto-crypto trades not as realized gains?

Because if there was no actual USD involved then its 100% subjective how much was made. What value was used? You can pick any exchange you want as a way to define what the USD value was? What about time frame? Time frame can be fudged either way. They might suddenly say ATH for the Korean exchange for the day was the actual value to prevent you from taking political donations.

They can take anyone they want and make up anything they want because there is no actual hard evidence of what the correct value was. They can fuck people from running for office. They can attack people who report news on social media. They can use this method to John Gotti anyone they want.

> You realize you imply that fiat is the currency to measure gains by?

Yep but its subjective when talking about assets. Was it worth 800 USD or 1000 USD that day? Your guess is as good as mine! Fuck it this chart for the korean exchange says it had a ATH of 1200 that day. Lets make sure to tax based on that to see if we can hobble the next election cycle.

Either we outlaw crypto to crypto transactions so its like stocks. Which is basically the end result of this or dont allow the precident at all. This is utterly impossible and completely subjective and it gives the IRS far too much power. Everyone who holds crypto is a potential Gotti the moment we allow this to happen.

[Anonymous No.7762271]

>>7761907
> If you take your thought to the end, then trading cryptos is making raw gains, and it should be independent of cashing out to fiat.

No, because Fiat is the only time when taxes should come into play for digital assets. Once we allow this precedent to be set then its not a stretch to apply the same logic to all digital goods. The IRS will be able to tax social media and video games. This is an attempt to control the narrative online. This is a chance for the IRS to fully control every aspect of the internet.

We will be paying taxes to own high valued twitter accounts. We will be paying taxes for everything on the internet. Because everything is going to be using the blockchain and crypto soon. All Alt media outside of maybe 4chan will be fully under the gun of the government if we allow this to happen.

DO NOT ALLOW THE IRS TO DO THIS. WE HAVE TO FIGHT THIS!!! THIS IS NOT A DRILL!!! FIGHT THEM ON THIS!!

[Anonymous No.7762300]

>>7759825
Never cash out

[Anonymous No.7762359]

>>7762191
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statelessness

[Anonymous No.7762433]

>>7759797
Lmao at the IRS pretending like they can do anything. Fuck off OP.

Le gubbermint can't even afford a proper UI for an emergency system in Hawaii, you think they have money to trace every single crypto to crypto trade that you made on a website based in fucking Hong Kong? "B-but they might close your (((bank account))) if you get audited." Again, fuck off OP, and saged

[Anonymous No.7762500]

>>7759825
One method is for us to start asking devs to look into ways to modify wallets so that you are able to do things similar to what Steemit does with steem power.

If you look at what Steem power is. Steem power is value that is stored on your steemit wallet that goes up when you destroy steem coins.

This value determines how powerful your upvotes are which allows you to mine more steem. Its closer to Minds.com points that give you benefits. Or Microsoft points for buying video games. If you look over the current tax paper Steem power is not tradable, has no innate value, is not on exchanges.

As it stands right now, the ability to own staking power is not taxed yet. If they change the rules then we will have to change the system again to update around it.

[Anonymous No.7762529]

>>7760026
>need
Huh?

[Anonymous No.7762548]

>>7762256

Hold up. Why are you using political runs to make example of crypto argument? Most of us give a shit less who gets political donations or even vote for any office. Give us a different example for someone who lives in the basement and will get fucked by the IRS different in the US.

[Anonymous No.7762568]

>>7762500
coins generated from staking or passively are income taxed at the fiat rate at which you receive the coin. it's no different than mining.

>>7762529
does mommy pay your grocery, electric bill and rent/property tax?

[Anonymous No.7762577]

>>7762271

Sounds like a slipper slope argument.

[Anonymous No.7762627]

>be OP
>25 posts shilling taxes
Your time will come.

[Anonymous No.7762649]

>>7762568
>what is bitcoin ATM

[Anonymous No.7762650]

>>7762548
>Hold up. Why are you using political runs to make example of crypto argument?

Because this is exactly a political situation. Its meant to prevent people who use crypto to gain too much power in political office.

[Anonymous No.7762686]

>>7762649
Don't those require KYC? Admittedly i have never used one, but i assume they need it or they would have been shut down (since they're a physical thing).

[Anonymous No.7762731]

>>7762577
Some aspects of the argument are somewhat of a slippery slope. But the ability to put peoples freedom in jeopardy based on subjective rules is far from slippery slope. Its strait up is what it is. They have full capability to say what they think is the correct value and its your word vs theirs.

In the case of stocks its set in fucking stone. Here is the number. In the case of crypto, you might as well be gambling your freedom.

[Anonymous No.7762770]

>>7762731
This is a VERY VERY serious situation we are looking at right now. This is a chance for the government to Gotti anyone they don't like at any time.

This is WAAAAY out of control.

[Anonymous No.7762806]

>>7759797
mr. finanzamt
would it be possible if i move to another country ?

or would it be possible just pay the income tax and not tax every trade

[Anonymous No.7762824]

>>7762568
>coins generated from staking or passively are income taxed at the fiat rate at which you receive the coin. it's no different than mining.

Sure and thats fine. But you can also stake more staking power.

[Anonymous No.7762832]

>>7759797
reporting crypto trades only brought audit upon me
I made 10k but had to report 4MM volume of trades, seemed suspicious and will probably make them dig deeper and possibly find something they don't like even though I did my best to calculate everything properly and my tax exceeded my earning (had to pay over 14k)
crypto was the worst mistake of my life

[Anonymous No.7762836]

Portugal here, what taxes?

[Anonymous No.7762875]

Ok. I’m gonna pay my taxes. I owe about 4K bc 16k profit. Can i do this on TurboTax ?

[Anonymous No.7762888]

>>7762832
This is exactly their intentions. And they will use this precedent to begin going after everyone on the internet they don't like.

DO NOT ALLOW THIS!!! The law needs to be changed as it stands right now.

[Anonymous No.7762915]

>>7762836
Brazil here. What "taxes" mean?

[Anonymous No.7762925]

>>7762824
>But you can also stake more staking power.
really? that's uh.. very interesting. Is that just putting the coins you get from staking directly back into the coins that are being staked?

I must research PoS more

[Anonymous No.7762971]

>>7762915
Tudo bem irmão? Ouvi dizer que a BTC vale mais aí?

[Anonymous No.7763033]

>>7762971
Yes, bitcoin is 10-30% more here.
Great to sell, bad to buy.

[Anonymous No.7763133]

>>7762925
No you simply gain more staking power instead of coins. That's how it works on steemit anyway. You have the ability to choose if you only want to gain more staking power from rewards. You can also choose to go 50 / 50 and gain half staking power and half SBD.

This kind of functionality should be in more coins honestly. I know ETH will be moving toward a staking system. More devs should be looking into this.

Once the IRS states that staking power should be taxed on capital gains then the wording will have to be very specific otherwise we will have to call into question what staking power actually is.

I think staking systems should be the future for crypto.

Also wallets should allow for us to gamble to "cash out" with a super low chance of losing money. That also skates tax laws in many countrys too.

And on that note a special lottery function where everyone who holds staking power can choose to donate to a pool and random people can win the lottery. This makes it so everyone has a chance make up any story they want. That can be used to explain how you suddenly gained a lot of money. Seeds doubt on the IRS.

[Anonymous No.7763216]

Pay when you cash out but
DO NOT ALLOW THE IRS TO FORCE COIN TO COIN TAXES! There will be plenty of ways to skate the laws legally soon. We need to be constantly talking about how to change the technology legally avoid taxation on crypto.

[Anonymous No.7763219]

>>7763033
Interested in some arbitrage?

[Anonymous No.7763239]

>>7759797
>tfw ~1% tax
it feels great to be dutch

[Anonymous No.7763263]

>>7759797
> paying for tyrone and his 10 bastard kids.
> not using privacy coins
nice try shlomo.

[Anonymous No.7763604]

the amount of cucks in this thread is beyond me

if you make below let's say $50k just sell it for fucking cash f2f and keep cash at home. If you make more that depends where you live but you're a faggot if you liquidate your coins and compromise your entire trading strategy because some faggot scared you on crypto-crypto taxes without cashing out to FIAT.

Just trade without worrying and when you decide to cash out pay what you owe for previous years and that's it.

Also all you trade history keeping KEKS, you do realize that your fucking excel sheet is as much of a proof of anything as my last nights dream right? lol you can fake the trade history to your liking, preferably showing them you didn't trade anything in the previous years and only during the year of cashing out.
Those who sell their coins just to pay taes are absolute degenerate nu male cucks and I have nothing but a feeling of disdain for them

[Anonymous No.7763706]

>>7763604
You're right about the Excel spreadsheets meaning fuck all. Most exchanges dump records after 3 months and you have no way of proving that those trades actually happened. Since it's crypto-crypto and your US exchange rate changes every few seconds, your spreadsheet numbers will never map to your money in and money out.

[Anonymous No.7763714]

>>7763604
Yeah but I want to be able to get property with my gains.

[Anonymous No.7763728]

0.004% if crypto holders actually payed taxes the most recent tax year

basically nobody is paying
thats what happens when you make taxes complicated and unwieldy

[Anonymous No.7763855]

>>7763706
that's exactly right
OP thinks he will be "safe" in the future because he is a cuck willing to overpay everything now, fucking KEK.
If the IRS decides to bust his ass they will find thousands of reason to do it years later, becaue there is no 1 benchmark/exchange to track every price historically, the tax agency can look at different rates from different sources and your entire cucked tax reports will go out of the window.
That's why I advise everyone to not be a KEK. Trade your way to the riches without worrying and ONCE YOU MAKE IT then consult lawyers/accountants on your situation and act accordingly. If that means going to fucking Puerto RIco or somewhere else, so be it.

But I'm sure every sane country will be more than happy to take their cut without scaring his freshly made crypto millionaire citizens away to other countries

>>7763714
then pay the 20/30% or whatever and be done with it. Simple

[Anonymous No.7763976]

>>7763728
>basically nobody is paying
>thats what happens when you make taxes complicated and unwieldy

And those stupid fucks from IRS/Coinbase forget that many people are die hard hodlers and actually a good percent of them doesn't have to pay taxes if they ony buy and don't sell.
Of course noone will be selling gold in the very beginning of the rush,

[Anonymous No.7763983]

>>7763219
Of course, i just don't know how i could send money abroad in a way that makes it worth.

[Anonymous No.7764052]

>>7759797
Calm down bud. Whats with the weird spacing between sentences? Nevermind.

My question is simple; out of all of the things you are telling everyone they cannot do, how many have you personally done and had the consequences you speak of?

[Anonymous No.7764123]

>>7764052
He's the living example of crabs in a bucket dragging everyone down.
He pussied out and decides to overreport/overpay everything like an (((obedient citizen))) and wants everyone else to share his misery, lol.

[Anonymous No.7764254]

>>7759797
I will never pay taxes on crypto. I was already planning moving out of this shithole in oder to cash out, your post is useless.

[Anonymous No.7764498]

Which countries could I move to where I wouldn't have to pay taxes on crypto?

[Anonymous No.7764712]

>>7764498
You wont have to move because all we need are some basic features and changes to the coins to make it so you can 100% legally avoid paying taxes on it anyway.

Anyone who is paying taxes on crypto to crypto gains is a fucking self destructive idiot because the IRS is completely helpless the moment we begin changing the technology to make it impossible / Harder for them to do anything.

They will lose this fight. They cannot be allowed to win this fight. Do not fucking pay until you cash out.

If you fucking sell out you are a piece of shit because you SOLD ALL OF US OUT.

[Anonymous No.7764773]

>>7764712
Shut the fuck up you moron. Hope your bank account gets frozen.

[Anonymous No.7764782]

>>7759797
TAXATION IS THEFT GET FUCKED KIKE

[Anonymous No.7764825]

>>7764773
He’s right.

[Anonymous No.7764846]

>>7764782
it's tripple theft because they're double taxing our money and they also print for themselves how much they want.
That makes it 3

[Anonymous No.7764937]

>>7760617
Why do you think you would qualify as amateur investor if youve been trading

[Anonymous No.7764940]

>>7759797
Live in Sweden, if for example ETH is at $1000 and i got 1 ETH and i sell my ETH for $1000
and then the price drops to $800 and i then buy 1.2 ETH for my $1000. Do i have to pay any taxes for that? Or can i keep daytrading and only pay taxes on my profit when i cash out?

[Anonymous No.7764975]

>mfw there is literally no fucking chance I ever report nor pay taxes on any crypto to crypto trades

They're getting the net difference between starting capital and ending capital times the tax rate, that's it.

[Anonymous No.7764993]

>>7764712
You'll never be able to make a large purchase in your life without the income to back it up.

Income is taxed higher than long term capital gains.

You'll always be at risk of getting audited and getting buttfucked.

[Anonymous No.7765053]

>>7764773
Whats that sound?

[Anonymous No.7765074]

>>7764975
Assuming American, that comes out to the same amount, unless you hold for longer than one year.

[Anonymous No.7765113]

>>7760617
be US resident
moving to a different country won't help because US taxes regardless of where you live
can't renounce citizenship without US taking a tax on all assets
even after renouncing citizenship, US can still tax income if they want to

[Anonymous No.7765177]

>>7765053
Yeah whatever. You NEETs think Binance is not going to cooperate with the US Government? Good thing you're all poorfags anyway.

[Anonymous No.7765200]

>>7764993
I just explained like 4 features that can be done with crypto to make it easily possible to do all of the above.

1. Staking power like Steem power is not taxed
2. Gamble to cash out of staking functionality. (Some countries dont tax gambling gains)
3. Wallet lottery, preferably with privacy features like Monero. Now anyone participating can suddenly happen upon large sums of money completely legitimately simply for having a coin.

Boom just those simple features and the IRS has its dick in its hands for at least a few years until they figure out something to do. So shut the fuck up about this shit. You cannot keep up with advancing technology as a government agency who hires morons incapable of problem solving.

With the above features alone you can cash out any amount you want at any time. And your done.

[Anonymous No.7765273]

>>7765177
He just admitted hes not a NEET and hs been posting all day on 4chan. Hmm could this guy be a shill?

You got nothing mother fuckers you LOSE. YOU FUCKING LOSE!!!

[Anonymous No.7765309]

>>7764712
There is no fight. You simply don't realize what you're messing with.

[Anonymous No.7765432]

>>7765309
We are messing with taxation without representation currently.

[Anonymous No.7765442]

>>7765074
that's the point it's pretty much the same amount of money at the end.
I would be ok with just PROVIDING them with trade history but not fucking calculating thousands of different trades when at the end it all boils down to the same price, let alone being FORCED to cash out.

[Anonymous No.7765504]

>>7765113
>even after renouncing citizenship, US can still tax income if they want to

bull-fucking shit

where does it say this?

[Anonymous No.7765519]

>>7765177
you don't even need to be verified to use binance you scared cuck

[Anonymous No.7765567]

>>7759797
>set up LLC in the caymans
>buy/sell crypto under said LLC
>cash out exactly $100k/year since $100k is just under the max amount you can cash out without paying taxes
>report it as salary to the IRS, assuming you actually want to

ELI5 why this wouldn't work

[Anonymous No.7765590]

>>7759825
By living in a first world country in central europe that doesn't tax crpyto trading, faggot. Even Switzerland has released guidelines on ICOs, ultimately allowing them. On the other hand, be a good goy and pay taxes.

[Anonymous No.7765762]

99% of the idiots on here will never have to pay taxes on their ((((((((((gains)))))))))) because all they do is lose money.

[Anonymous No.7765815]

>>7760795
You'd be sent to a federal "camp" for white collar crime. People behave there because if they fuck up then they're going to be transferred to a federal pen where the real violent shit goes down.

[Anonymous No.7765969]

>>7765309

Don't be a bootlicker

[Anonymous No.7766420]

>>7765969
Whats even worse is this is a situation where its very clearly obvious that its a lose lose situation for the IRS.

If they win then they will have the entire internet pissed off because of the number of innocent people they attacked. On top of that they will have seeked out all tax havens which means basically you owing taxes for having a world of warcraft account. That would mean the next generation will fucking HHHHHAAAAAATE taxes beyond all measures. The Left will lose elections for more than a decade.

[Anonymous No.7766478]

>>7761009
>>7760995
poor people making money at an alarming rate, threatening the status quo? yeah.

[Anonymous No.7766536]

>tfw making gains, but not big enough to be taxable
2k portfolio, 650 in gains
feels good

[Anonymous No.7766757]

>>7766478
Digital assets have been taxed for away now. But only when cashed out. This includes video games actually. Recently a CS:GO weapon skin was sold for 61k.

https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-dragon-lore-awp-skin-sells-for-more-than-61000/?ns_campaign=article-feed&ns_mchannel=ref&ns_source=steam&ns_linkname=0&ns_fee=0

[Anonymous No.7766823]

all mail and subpoenas recieved will be burned
and any kike that comes to my house will be killed

poke holes in that you faggot agency shill

[Anonymous No.7767130]

>>7766757
61k for a video game prop

some nerds man...

[Anonymous No.7767277]

No, monero will not help at all and will in fact hurt because it will trigger a higher chance at an audit, which is already high for people involved in crypto

However monero will lead to a more likelyhood for an audit. Guess what the audit would find?

[Anonymous No.7767450]

>>7767277
Am I missing something, nobody knows you have monero. Just sell it for cash on local monero

[Anonymous No.7767814]

>>7767277
The things I listed make it so the audit would useless anyway so it doesn't matter.

> Where did the money come from?

> I used the lottery feature on the wallet.

Imagine if I wasn't the only one talking about this kind of stuff. Imagine if more people actually listed new functionality to make it harder. We could probably get 10 or so layers deep of things that stump forcing of paying coin to coin transactions without even having to do anything wrong.

Tax avoidance is not illegal people. If a technology just so happens to be harder to tax then tough shit for them. They over stepped anyway. I want to start seeing threads on here for potential features that can be implemented on coins. I want devs to have some serious ideas to look over. A lot of this shit is not super hard to do either. A simple lottery system on a wallet alone would go miles to stumping them completely.

[Anonymous No.7768292]

>>7759797
I don't want to avoid taxes but when my commie frog munching country imposes a 60% tax something has to be done. Spare me the bs.

[Anonymous No.7768338]

>>7759797
>>7759825
>reddit spacing
kys

[Anonymous No.7768687]

>>7765969
I'm not a bootlicker. I hate the IRS. But I know you shouldn't pick a fight with them.

[Anonymous No.7768943]

>>7768687
Crypto to crypto taxation is completely unprecedented. They picked the fight when they decided to turn every one of us into a Gotti clone. Its a complete abuse of power in its current stance beyond fucking measure. This means they can hit anyone with jail or fines simply for using or having owned crypto at any point. This is a political power grab by them and they want to prevent anyone who uses cryptocurrency from ever running for office or being able to speak freely on the internet. This is a hit piece on anyone and everyone they want indefinitely.

We do not have a choice. The law must be changed. The only state right now that is even leaning in the correct direction is Arizona. But even then its likely to never go through. Otherwise it is demonstrably unacceptable and must be fought against!

[Anonymous No.7769121]

>>7767450
And what you gonna do with a pile of cash at your home?

[Anonymous No.7769256]

>>7769121
Me rn lol
I used it to buy an i8 in private sale and a nice luxury apartment for rental, a big ass tv, couch, brand new expensive clothes, bought my mom a car, and eat out good ass food everyday.

[Anonymous No.7769297]

>>7768943

This anon is absolutely fucking right. If you disagree with anything he says you're literally a piece of shit sacrificing yourself for no reason you spineless fucking reddit faggots. No one in the US is gonna stand for this shit. Only 0.06% of cucks have actually not called bullshit and did what their slavemasters told them

[Bearfag No.7769306]

I put in 2600 total at different times into crypto
I wait till market recovers and pull out my inital investment... maybe less
I leave the rest inside to make me gains
I pay 0 taxes since what i pulled out is less than what i put in
Get rekt tax cucks, you cannot shill me into taxes

[Anonymous No.7769327]

>>7769256
Sounds fun...But you will never be able to reinvest your money and let it work for you.

[Anonymous No.7769339]

>>7768687

But the IRS(And to a major extent, the government) are terrified of american banding together in protest. Capitulating is just allowing them to further their tyranny

[Anonymous No.7769457]

>>7759797
>Most 1st world countries tax crypto-crypto trades
Who the fuck are you trying to fool here? You don't pay taxes on SHIT until you cash out your gains.

[Anonymous No.7769596]

Fatty McCheesepants has 12 BTC on GDAX. Fatty made 300 or so trades on GDAX scalping BTC during the bull-run. Fatty made $26,000 in short -term gains doing this in his spare time at work. He also bought a fuck-ton of ETH with some BTC he sold in August. That was $34,000 in long term gains.
Fatty thinks he is very smart and will consider the BTC-ETH trade is like kind trade and will not pay taxes on it. Fatty is pissed more about the 26,000 because it is considered income and will jack his ass into another tax-bracket.
Fatty is going to pay because he realizes Coinbase turned over its loyal customers info like a bitch.
Fatty will 1. Never day-trade again 2. Forget CoinBase ever existed 3. Celebrate the coming of DEX exchanges.

[Anonymous No.7770054]

>>7769327
Maybe, maybe not,
I could get a close family member with a long history of an income source (which i have)
and give them cash so they would start the business under their name, and write off all the business expenses under their name. So essentially i would be running the business under their name but funding them with my cash so the irs would never know its me ;)

[Anonymous No.7770350]

>>7770054
My son. Al Capone would be proud of you.

[Anonymous No.7770421]

>>7759797

Unlike most of the faggots in this thread casually trying to commit to tax evasion and being a moron the only sound advice is the consult a professional and get your shit right with the IRS.

I am paying a large sum to make myself audit proof and create a paper trail that will be scrutinized before I even send it off because I took a few hundred dollars and turned it into tens of thousands with just a few trades and holding. I believed people when they said it was a like-kind trade and didn't bother to pay my pittance or report but guess what? I am paying to amend my shit because the IRS will shit on the vulnerable when they can to start making an example and they are going to start cracking down on people no matter how much you cry and bitch and whine. As far as I am concerned I got lucky and made some sound investments and i'm completely comfortable paying a small amount of it out to be square with the government. The fact that it makes some of you lose your minds is just icing on the cake. There are professionals who know every trick you're trying to pull and it's going to catch up to a lot of you.

Scammers, fudders, fraudsters, cheats and general scum that populate this place have no business in crypto in the first place. You have no place here, the point of crypto was to build something better than the current system and not just create something even more monstrous than it. I hope everyone trying to be slick winds up with an extended vacation at club fed because they're nothing more than greedy children.

[Anonymous No.7770599]

>>7770421
Same. I fell for the "like-kind" meme as well. Why the fuck do people spread lies based on nothing but their wishful thinking? There's not one tax professional who thinks you can file your crypto to crypto trades as like-kind. Not fucking one.

[Anonymous No.7771002]

>>7768943
It's not "unprecedented" actually. Property to property exchanges were always taxable. The precedent was already set when the value of bartered items were considered taxable. This is one of the foundations of the tax system because otherwise it allows work-arounds that would destroy the whole system.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/barter-exchanges

If you want to fight to get rid of crypto - crypto taxation you're going to fight and die in a war to change taxation of barter. And you won't win in a war against the US, you'll just die for nothing.

[Anonymous No.7771523]

>>7765567
>>cash out exactly $100k/year since $100k is just under the max amount you can cash out without paying taxes
where the fuck are you reading this anywhere?

[Anonymous No.7771709]

>>7770421
The problem is, this is not a simple issue you should be moral willing to accept. The problem is that the current law, not the intention, but the current law as it is right now is super fucked up.

I am not saying we should commit tax fraud. But we cannot allow the current law to be allowed. If you do allow this then you are going to find that there is no amount of safety you will be able to find. They can and will be able to say you fucked up and there will be nothing you can do. Even if you try to do everything right, with this current law, you will still be at high risk of going to jail or paying huge fines.

The reason is fucking simple. If no Fiat played a part in the transaction then there is no way to accurately indicate how much fiat was used in the transaction.

You will still go to jail. In fact someone like you will probably get hit the hardest. Especially if they decide to fuck with you for any reason they want. You better be squeaky fucking clean.

[Anonymous No.7771778]

>>7771002
>It's not "unprecedented" actually. Property to property exchanges were always taxable. The precedent was already set when the value of bartered items were considered taxable. This is one of the foundations of the tax system because otherwise it allows work-arounds that would destroy the whole system.

The precedent is that digital goods have never been directly taxed and this has far greater implications from this point moving forward than physical goods or physical property. The problem with taxation of digital goods is that there is far too much complexity for us to ever be able to come to any kind of consensus on anything. That and its also highly likely that this will be used to stifle free speech on the internet as we move into block chain based social media.

[Anonymous No.7771852]

Basically, as we move forward with technology we need to seriously have a conversation about changing the entire tax system. Arizona is potentially going to allow us to use Bitcoin to pay taxes that way and that could potentially work as it would allow for us to directly know the exact amount during the exchange. But even that is only a tiny step in the right direction.

[Anonymous No.7772177]

>>7771523
Foreign earned income exclusion
IRS form 2555

[Anonymous No.7772501]

>>7771709

I am squeaky clean and ultimately owe the government about 20 dollars because my trades were all made in a stagnant market years ago. I have never done anything even remotely questionable with taxes and if they audit me the only topic for consideration would be me proving ownership which is simple enough. The fact I am going out of my way to make sure I adhere to their standards also plays heavily in my favor. They are far more likely to go after people with questionable accounting rather than people who are trying as hard as possible to show the entire trail as best as possible and who want to pay tax.

If they start to crucify normies like myself who just want to do right they will wind up fucking themselves as they make shit loads of noise about being fucked over for doing the right thing. The worse they treat people like myself the more likely people are to just say fuck it and find any avenue they can to try to hide their gains. If they want to have a date in court with me for doing everything I could to come into compliance it's a case I will win and use to try to punish them in any way I can.

[Anonymous No.7772687]

>>7764937
Because those are the laws? Look it up.

>>7765113
What are you talking about? I'm not a burger.

[Anonymous No.7772729]

>>7759825
>money laundering
go smart ass

[Anonymous No.7772810]

>>7759797
so... if I don't want to pay taxes, the only way to avoid them is to reside in a shit world country like india/any country in america that is not US or Canada?

[Anonymous No.7773277]

>>7759797
Bought a bunch of eth in the past, will say I held never traded, convert some portion of my alts back into 90% of that eth to cash out a sizable chunk (tax free for long term hold). The next year claim I traded the eth for a shitcoin that mooned and cash it out (again for long term gains) win?

[Anonymous No.7773308]

>>7772501
>The fact I am going out of my way to make sure I adhere to their standards also plays heavily in my favor.

It wont, because they will be searching for targets. merely admitting you did anything with crypto will be an instant audit. You will be part of a tiny percentage of people that even talk about crypto. And since there is no standard on what the USD value of anything is they will sap all of your crypto from you and make you pay more than you earned to teach you a lesson.

The first wave is going to be the examples they make out of people. They will be in full panic come April.

[Anonymous No.7773474]

>>7772501
Also too, In my above posts you can easily avoid paying any taxes at all if those features were implemented anyway. We have not even seen the push back on this yet. Most coins worth a shit will be moving toward technical changes to avoid having to pay taxes by the end of the year. There will be huge demand for features like Steem power / staking, lottery and god knows what other people come up with.

[Anonymous No.7773595]

>>7773308
this, you don't want to be a pioneer Anon. Rule of thumb, they're pretty much always fucked

[Amarin !!qUgW4NZcr4x No.7773721]

>>7773308
That's just great. Here I was, thinking I'd do my tax return honestly so I could collect fat gains next year as long-term. Shit.

What do I do, then?

[Anonymous No.7773783]

>>7773308
So, what do I do if I want to collect legitimate gains next year?

[Anonymous No.7774074]

>>7773783
Define legitimate gains when there is no standard way to define what each transaction was actually worth. Its all just a big shade of gray from here on out. Enjoy the shit show that is going to commence. I have no idea how this will actually play out. But the current tax law on the books is fucking atrocious.

[Anonymous No.7774145]

>>7760966
How did that work did you go through every coin manually? Or I go an excel sheet and then it’s a csv file to upload? I’m working on my gay ass taxes now

[Anonymous No.7774649]

>>7759825
>>7759797

Fuck off IRS. I'm not doing your work for you.

[Anonymous No.7774759]

so how does bitmex work, especially for US cit?

[Anonymous No.7774851]

Do you have to report crypto if you're just sitting on it?

I'll consult an accountant when I cash out but untill then Im just sitting on it
I bought them a year ago @$1000 a piece with money saved from delivering chinese under the table for 2 years.....

[Anonymous No.7775800]

>>7759797
are you saying i have to pay taxes on crypto that im holding each year even if i dont cash it out?

also, when i cash out how do i pay taxes on that? just go to the irs office and pay there or wait til the end of the year and file taxes?

thanks ahead of time anon