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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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File: 29 KB, 1000x750, my-Ledger-Nano-S.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743115 No.7743115 [Reply] [Original]

/biz/ explain to be the advantage of using a ledger nano over putting a hardware wallet on a cheap usb stick

>> No.7743145

>>7743115
pin code, can be recovered with 12 words, integration with other wallets, price lock

>> No.7743168

>>7743115
A USB stick it not a hardware wallet

The private key can never be removed from a Nano Ledger, even if the NSA wanted your coins they'd have extreme difficulty and would have to spend years poring over the enclave with scanning electron microscopes

>> No.7743175

>>7743145
>12 words
24*

>> No.7743256

>>7743168
>this
+
>>7743145

>> No.7743261

you can freely transact without worrying about the security of the computer you're on, because the priv key is safely hidden on the ledger

with other methods you're essentially compromised as soon as your keys have been exposed to an internet connected terminal

>> No.7743265

>>7743145
Can you explain the how the price lock works?
Was thinking about getting nano ledger, but I don't understand the price lock at all

>> No.7743319

>>7743265
Your tokens are placed as an immutable buy/sell entry on the native blockchain, you do miss out on gains after locking the price that way but can also never go to zero. I prefer the Trezor's price lock function but overall the Ledger Nano S is a better product

>> No.7743343

>>7743115
You would have trouble signing transactions with a usb. You could do it, but it would be a pain and not as secure. Remember, all a wallet does is signs transactions with your private key. To use it, you still need an interface off of the wallet.

>> No.7743395
File: 24 KB, 543x443, 5499789897.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743395

>>7743168
>spend years poring over the enclave with scanning electron microscopes
So there's a chance...

>> No.7743402

>>7743319


Thanks, that's helpful.

So if you have the price locked, how do you unlock it and what happens then?
If you're locked at a higher price than current value, is it possible to sell at that price?

>> No.7743421

>>7743319
Zozzle

>> No.7743427

>>7743319
This lock thing is a meme. Maybe there is a lock/vault function where funds can’t be touched unless the price reaches x. This too would be stupid bc what exchange would it use to verify the price?

>> No.7743478

>>7743427
Gox of course

>> No.7743480

>>7743427
The thing signs transactions and “holds” your keys. This goes for any wallet.

>> No.7743486
File: 80 KB, 478x523, 1514072905106.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743486

>>7743115
>over putting a hardware wallet on a cheap usb stick

>> No.7743509

>>7743402
Yes, that’s the best part. You should unlock when the bitcoin prices are cheap, and then price lock when it’s high. Like when BTC hit $20k you should have price locked

>> No.7743552
File: 56 KB, 300x360, 7398099.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743552

>>7743509
>tfw locked at $6k because some omegafaggot told me it will go to $4k.

>> No.7743554
File: 7 KB, 250x237, 1511263374151.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743554

>USING A HARDWARE WALLET

suckers they saw you coming a mile away

>hey lets sell these fucking nerds a usb stick for 200 dollars LOL

>> No.7743558

>>7743402
He's trolling you, bro

>> No.7743568

I got a Nano S last year back when I was holding a lot (for me anyway, 5) BTC. I was leaving them sitting on Electrum and wanted something that made me feel safer. I never could get the Nanos BTC wallet set up and ending up dumping my BTC bag at 17K anyway.

Recently I tried again, and I was able to set up the Nano for my XRP. Just beware the Nano won’t hold all coins so make sure you check the list first

>> No.7743588

>>7743509
Why do ppl fuck with every reasonable question on this board.
>>7743115
Sorry bro. Google it.

>> No.7743610

>>7743554
lel this

>> No.7743633
File: 112 KB, 600x800, 1518719670708.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7743633

>>7743145
>pin code
Or just encrypt the flash drive

>can be recovered with 12 words
Almost every wallet can be recovered with a mnemonic seed

>integration with other wallets
Useless

>price lock
Meme

People with real money encrypt their wallets and only access them on airgapped machines. They send btc out of those wallets by signing transactions on an internet connected machine. Not only are these hardware wallets memes, they could also potentially be an unnecessary liability

>buy cheap laptop and remove wifi card/bluetooth and severe the antennas
>Install Linux
>encrypt hdd
>Install electrum
>Encrypt wallet
>Encrypt mnemonic recovery seed
>Export encrypted mnemonic recovery seed into a QR code and back it up on paper/hardware
>Purchase ehdds/flash drives with cash in-store
>Encrypt the ehdds/flash drives and backup your encrypted electrum wallet on them
>Store your backups in several different locations including safety deposit box so
>Never forget your password
>Never taint your airgapped machine
The only point of attack in this scenario, a part from getting your nails ripped off, is physical access, and even then there are things you can do to identify tampering. Stop being lazy and store your coins properly

>> No.7743673

How about storing wallets on a mirrored volume, dropbox and two USB sticks, and all private keys and or wallet passwords on a KeePass database also in those same USB sticks ...

>> No.7743687

You guys realize your recovery words get converted into your actual private key right?
The main advantage is it can't be key logged

>> No.7743706

>>7743427
You have owned a Trezor before, right? You should at least know the ins and outs of a product before you go spewing bullshit.

>> No.7743782

>>7743633
where are the keys stored for all of those encrypted thingiepoos?

>> No.7743794

>>7743782
Your head

>> No.7743817

>>7743115
My friend did that with a couple thousand bitcoin. Corrupt even though he didnt use it. Expensive lesson, still dont understand how he hasnt killed himself

>> No.7743818

>>7743794
brilliant, cant find a single flaw

>> No.7743837

>>7743794
> get amnesia
> lose your lifesavings

>> No.7743848

>>7743633
>>buy cheap laptop
>>Purchase ehdds/flash drives with cash in-store
>>purchase safety deposit box
or you could just buy a $50 ledger and not worry about anything you retard

>> No.7743871

>>7743817
Why didn't he write down his recovery words?

>> No.7743882

>>7743261
How is the USB aspect actually secure? Can't a hacker develop a trojan meme that rips data from a Ledger that's plugged in via USB? and LOL @ fucking with redditors

>> No.7743896

>>7743818
*Hurr I forgot my password to millions of dollars of Bitcoin*

If someone is this retarded then they could create a password that can be recovered through a sequence of steps that are so ridiculous that only they could figure them out. Otherwise, they should just kill themselves

>> No.7743897

>>7743115
Fast and free, this will usurp Bitcoin once the FUD of bitgrail's shitcode passes.

>> No.7743910

It's interesting how the 24-word seed key words. It essentially contains the private key, if that's how you can describe it. Would be interested behind the mechanics of how all that works, if such a think were possible for a layman like me to understand without having a PhD in Mathematics.

>> No.7743921

>>7743706
What exchange does it use to lock value? One in Zimbabwe or Korea? How does it communicate with this exchange? What happens if this exchange goes offline? Does Trezor Tether you up at the lock and buys you back in for equal BTC at unlock?

> spewing shit
Listen fucker. Your wallet does not work like an exchange. There may be some lock function, but the meme behind it is not real. You’re like a normie who thinks the iPhone air-drop feature allows you to drop the phone without harm

>> No.7743950

>>7743921
it just stores the current prices, that's all you can't really lock the prices of the coin ...

>> No.7743974

>>7743848
The safety deposit box/multiple storage locations part also applies to ledger memes you enormous faggot. Ledgers are not as secure as what I described. But feel free to store your bitcoins how you'd like

>> No.7743978

>>7743633
Oh fuck, I accidentally summoned a Stallman praising /g/tard.

>> No.7743989

>>7743978
LOL!!!

>> No.7744095

>>7743978
I haven't been to /g/ in over 2 years. Stallman and Gentoo memes were the only things that board had going for it. The rest of the content consisted of consumerism and HelloWorld.c threads. I doubt anything has changed

>> No.7744098

>>7743896
>short version, you have to store those somewhere/somehow too
yeah I know

>> No.7744101

>>7743817
what do you mean? It's recoverable most likely you mongols.

>> No.7744111

>>7743974
>Ledgers are not as secure as what I described
yeah, they are. I could give you my ledger as a present and you wouldn't be able to do jackfuck with it.

>> No.7744128

We can agree though, right, that using a Ledger may be a much safer option than not? Yes, one could use even more secure methods such an airgapped computer, as some have mentioned here. But is it safe to safe a Ledger is a pretty good option (Or Trezor for that matter)?

>> No.7744136

>>7744111
>i hit it with a hammer
>it fragments into a hundred pieces
now wat

>> No.7744156

>>7744128
>safe to say

>> No.7744157

>>7744111
You fail to grasp the entire attack service of someone wanting to steal your coins. I gurantee that if you're ever targeted you will lose them

>> No.7744175

>>7743168
Maybe that's why every Ledger Nano S being sold on Amazon has the tamper seal broken.

>> No.7744177
File: 1.95 MB, 460x612, 1514388339330.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7744177

>>7744136
now I use my seed to recover my wallet on a new ledger

>> No.7744181

>>7743950
That makes more sense, thanks

>> No.7744190

>>7744157
Valid point, but this can be said for anything worth stealing I assume, right. Nothing is 100% secure, but one can attempt to make it reasonably secure from most methods, no.

>> No.7744195
File: 289 KB, 1080x1349, oijoi13ihiosadf.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7744195

All private keys will become obsolete once we know enough neuroscience to scan the brain for memories.

>> No.7744205

>>7744177
So one seed for all coins/tokens?

>> No.7744216

>>7744177

what did he throw in the bottle? worms?

>> No.7744226

>>7744195
because people memorize there private keys? I don't get it...

>> No.7744254
File: 43 KB, 600x637, gyll.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7744254

>>7744177

>> No.7744279

>>7743509
Plz stop bully. I heard from my cousin who died in the florida school shooting that N Cruz was so mad because he price locked his nano at the bottom. Just terrible.

>> No.7744280

>>7743673
>Dropbox
>not Mega

You're not gonna make it

>> No.7744308

>>7744226
The 24 word passphrase.

In the near future, they will arrest you for dealing with cryptocurrecies, strap a helmet on you, and ask you for your wallet's reset passphrase.

You won't say it, but it'll be on the tip of your tongue, and they will scan your brain at that moment to figure out what it is.

>> No.7744310

>>7744190
Exactly. That's why I described one of the more secure methods of storing bitcoins. All of this can be accomplished for < $100 in a Sunday morning. Ledgers are for normies who want an upgrade from storing their coins on the exchange they purchased them from. No one who has been involved in Bitcoin for more than 4 years uses that trash

>> No.7744319

BACK IN 2013 I ENCRYPTED A PASSWORD TO AN ENCRYPTED WALLED IN A PGP MESSAGE BECAUSE AT THE TIME PGP WAS THE MOST SECURE OPEN SOURCE MESSAGE ENCRYPTION TOOL

PGP GOT TAKEN DOWN AND I CANNOT FIND THE NECCESARY SOFTWARE TO DECRYPT THE MESSAGE


CONSIDER WETHER THE SHIT YOU USE WILL EVEN EXIST WHEN YOU NEED IT

>> No.7744342

>>7744319
You don't deserve your Bitcoin.

>> No.7744435

>>7744310
So your point is that if someone really really wants your coins they'll torture your for your pin/passphrase?
I fail to see how your method would solve this problem
You also failed to demonstrate how that would improve the security over storing them in a ledger nano

>b-but your ledger can be hacked if it's not airgapped!
well so can your laptops, or do you think the NSA didn't leave some nasty surprises behind?

Point being, anyone that can steal your coins from a ledger, can steal from your convoluted mess

>> No.7744493

>>7744319
back in 2013 i had 0.2 BTC worth of shitcoins on cryptsy and some fucker drained my account
then cryptsy went down anyways

>> No.7744532

>>7744435
but ledger is not cool because it's mainstream, easy to use and doesn't allow for anon to play out his hackerman fantasies

>> No.7744538

>>7743115
the ledger helps me sleep easier however i noticed their subreddit has alot of noobs complaining
https://www.reddit.com/r/ledgerwallet/

>> No.7744835

>>7743402
lol you faggot price locking is a meme

>> No.7744887

>>7743402
hahahahaha

>> No.7744893

Just put your encrypted wallet file onto your USB
It's literally a scam ledger is a scam

>> No.7744977

GUYS should I wait a few days before locking in my bitcoin? Not sure if its going to drop or not

>> No.7744994

The point of HW wallet is that the private key never leaves the key, it's like creating transaction on a offline computer with a wallet and your private key. And on top of everything you have to physically type the PIN on the key to confirm the withdrawal, so it's pretty safe.

The price locking is a meme, it may at most store the current prices of the coins, but that's about it.

>> No.7745070

>>7743115
to lock your coins

>> No.7745103

>>7744308
uh...yeah I barely even look at my passphrase
feel like this won't at all work on really anyone

wait, are you saying you actually mem...aha....hahaha.....ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

>> No.7745128

>>7743115
A USB stick can be hacked extremely easy. A ledger cannot.

>> No.7745129

>>77
>I fail to see how your method would solve this problem
1. It's not my method. People have been doing this for years before this ledger shit came out. 2. I mentioned that it wouldn't solve that problem, so wtf are you on about?

>You also failed to demonstrate how that would improve the security over storing them in a ledger nano
From my understanding, the ledger doesn't support signing transactions offline. Even so, to securely use your ledger you'd need to fucking have an airgapped machine with that shitty ledger wallet software installed on it, export the signed transaction to a QR code, and then import it on an internet connected device, so the ledger would be completely useless anyway. Plus there's the whole issue of it being a huge fucking target. There's manufacturer and transportation security to worry about.

>b-but your ledger can be hacked if it's not airgapped!
>well so can your laptops, or do you think the NSA didn't leave some nasty surprises behind?
Of course a non-airgapped laptop can be hacked. Wtf are you on about? The whole storage method I described is built on this premise.

>Point being, anyone that can steal your coins from a ledger, can steal from your convoluted mess
This is not true. Stealing from a faggot's ledger is as easy as attacking the computer where they have their wallet software installed. Or maybe just attack the shitty ledger wallet software. And if that wallet software is on an airgapped machine then the fucking ledger is a waste of money anyway.
The method I described is not convoluted. Anyone who knows how Bitcoin works could easily setup a wallet using the method I described. Fuck off

>> No.7745130

>>7744977
yeah sure wait a few day blahblahblah lock it then with the lock feature that exists hurr durr

>> No.7745144
File: 41 KB, 485x428, 1409946476674.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7745144

>>7745129
oh shit bois we got a live action sperg over here

>> No.7745149

>>7743115
You can lock the price of your coins.

>> No.7745155

>>7745129
Was reply to this faggot
>>7744435

>> No.7745165

>>7745129
wow you're retarded. educate yourself before you spout bullshit about a topic you have no clue about

>> No.7745169

>>7743265

Never use that shit unless you wanna be jewed out of your gains.

>> No.7745185

>>7743910

just look into what a hash is.

itll take any input and turn it into a big string of random characters. any small change in the input will create a completely different hash, but the exact same input will create the exact same hash.

so 24 words go as the input, getting one word wrong will create a totally different set of keys, but getting all the words right will always produce the same keys.

>> No.7745202

>>7743168
Serious question, is the current iteration of the Nano S quantum proof?

Thinking about buying one for my links that I'd like to hold for 8+ years.

>> No.7745222

>>7743633

yea you could do all this, but you'll also have to deal with change addresses and re-securing your funds every time you want to do a transaction, because chances are whatever you stored isn't the exact amount you want to send.

>> No.7745228

>>7745165
The ledger interfaces with the ledger wallet software to send transactions, does it not? If the system the ledger software is on is connected to the internet then how could that possibly be secure? If the system is airgapped then why would you use the ledger in the first place?

>> No.7745273

>>7745149
This basically. A standard USB can't use the full blockchain protocol to lock the price.

>> No.7745281

>>7745228

The private keys are stored on the ledger and is not revealed to the terminal you're on. You need physical access to the device to sign a transaction.

>> No.7745288

>>7743633
don't use passwords
stamp private key on stainless steel (2x) and hide it

>> No.7745302

>>7745202
bump
pls

>> No.7745305

>>7745228
No you dumbass. The transaction gets signed on the ledger and the PC sees only the signed transaction. The key never leaves the device.
You need physical access to the ledger to do anything with it. It's equivalent to an airgapped gentoo PC.

>> No.7745307

>>7745222
no you have a main wallet airgapped fir hodl stack and trading profits, and few smaller online wallets online for trading

>> No.7745369

>>7744319
Are you retarded?

>> No.7745412

>>7744177
What a chadboss horee sheeet, asian overlord

>> No.7745441

>>7745302
>>7745202
pls bros help a bro out

>> No.7745614

>>7745441
you have to lock in

>> No.7745699

>>7745305
>Plug ledger into computer
>microcontroller gets flashed with malicious firmware and its memory gets dumped
>Thinking ST31 is secure

>Buy ledger
>Manafactuer sends your a ledger with a maliciously flashed microcontroller

>Buy ledger
>NSA intercepts the package and flashes the microcontroller while working with the IRS to steal money from NEETS

You are retarded if you think this is anywhere close to being as secure as a properly airgapped system bought at a physical location

>> No.7745798
File: 37 KB, 600x582, 1513534918161.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7745798

>>7745699
you are extremely fucking retarded. stop posting.

>> No.7745801

>>7745614
If I "lock in" will that protect my ledger from the NSA using super quantum computers to crack it after physically stealing it from me?

>> No.7746003

>>7745798
Nice rebuttal, chap

>Hurrdurr no one working in the manufacturing process of ledger would ever consider backdooring the microcontroller
Why in the fuck do you think they have a tamper meme seal on the packaging? That should be an immediate red flag.

>Hurrdurr if I plug this usb stick into this compromised internet connected device then there's no conceivable way malicious code could possibly find its way on it

There's probably billions stored on ledger wallets. You don't think someone would find/introduce an exploit, especially at the wagecuck manufacturer level?

>> No.7746022
File: 96 KB, 260x246, 1509050218475.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7746022

>there are people on this board right now that actually believe "price locking" is a real thing

>> No.7746869

>>7745305
Breakdown of vuln for trezor and ledger: https://blog.gridplus.io/hardware-wallet-vulnerabilities-f20688361b88

Fucking read it. Trezor = pos avoid
Ledger = safe for now, until someone finds an exploit.

Got a ledger on backorder from the official website.. will this stay attack proof for long? Not likely I would bet

>> No.7747063

>>7746869
Nice article. And yeah I'm not too worried about my ledger, as long as it stays unplugged nothing can happen, by the time it comes to cash out I'll just get a clean PC and do the transaction there.

>> No.7747199
File: 1.08 MB, 276x260, 1518835947685.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
7747199

>>7747063
>yeah I'm not too worried about my ledger, as long as it stays unplugged nothing can happen, by the time it comes to cash out I'll just get a clean PC and do the transaction there.
Yeah, bros. I wasted money on this ledger meme that I now see is a liability compared to the cold storage methods people have been using for years with airgapped systems and qr codes. But hey, at least I can just never plug it into a computer and then when it comes time to "cash out" I'll just buy a new "clean" PC, plug it in, and hope for the best xDDDDDD

>> No.7747271

>>7743817
As long as he knows his private key, he can retrieve his bitcoins. If he didn't write down his private key, or kept it anywhere else, then he's an idiot.

>> No.7747348

>>7743910
The words are part of a 2048 word list. Each word corresponds to the index position on that list. Getting the correct 24 word private key by chance is basically 1 / 2048^24, or 1 in 2.9642775e+79.

>> No.7747448

There needs to be a sticky for this. I am so sick of dump ass newfags not understanding what a hardware wallet does.

>> No.7747490

>>7747199

All that is fine for storing your key but is annoying as fuck if you ever want to use it.

A hardware wallet lets you use your key with as much security has a paper wallet (the recovery phrase is a paper wallet).

>> No.7747514

>>7743115
It's something literal retards buy. It's a waste of money. Anyone who owns one, isn't gonna make it, because they're fucking retarded.

>> No.7748192

>>7747514
A hardware wallet will protect you from entering your private key on your computer, thus protecting you from keyloggers.

>> No.7748216

>>7743115
are you retarded? you can literally LOCK IN THE PRICE of your coins. the absolute state of biz...

>> No.7748245

>>7743145
Price lock is the killer feature

>> No.7748279

>>7748216
lock low unlock high

>> No.7748287

>>7745202
>>7745302
>>7745441

your seed is essentially an AES key, so yes, it's quantum proof

if there's some massive development in crypto, the thing that's most likely to break isn't your private key, it's SHA256 hashes, which will break banking completely and mean the blockchain has to be upgraded

there will be mass chaos

>> No.7748300

>>7747348
Awesome. Thanks!
Cryptography is fascinating; wish I had been smart enough to major in mathematics back in the day. :)

>> No.7748345

>>7748287
*moderately quantum resistant

nano ledgers will resist quantum attacks because BIP38 is based on AES256

>> No.7748630

>>7748287
>an AES key, so yes, it's quantum proof
>>7748345
>resist quantum attacks because BIP38 is based on AES256
But I've read that eventually quantum computers will be able to crack any AES so you need a quantum proof algorithm like Winternitz.

Can you buy a Ledger Nano S which uses a quantum proof algorithm instead or does it have to be AES?

>> No.7748697

>>7748630
eventually a classical computer will be able to crack AES

Quantum computers just do grover's alg a little faster, they're in no way going to magically crack AES

and AES is absolutely not getting cracked in the next 25 years

you should have far more practical concerns when it comes to losing money:

1. a large exchange gets hacked, or fucked up their backups (see Binance like two weeks ago)
2. the real economy enters into a depression (this is the most likely thing)
3. war breaks out and part of the internet goes offline

etc. Strong, airgapped devices using a secure enclave and proven crypto should *not* be a concern for anyone...