>this is the greatest wealth transfer in history Who is it being transferred from? Won't they be angry?

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Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:39:37 2018 No.7725082 [Reply] [Original]

>this is the greatest wealth transfer in history

Who is it being transferred from? Won't they be angry?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:41:00 2018 No.7725101 >>7725082 From boomers when they FOMO at 50k. Yes they will be angry when Gen X and millenials dump BTC back to 20k.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:41:26 2018 No.7725108 >>7725101 Pretty much this

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:42:19 2018 No.7725120 File: 236 KB, 1304x754, biz me.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] from normies to the wealthy, and whoever is along for the ride

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:42:27 2018 No.7725124 File: 551 KB, 550x778, 1517498143787.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] From the poor to the rich like always

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:45:58 2018 No.7725172 >>7725101 tbqh the boomers don't want it There is more than enough genX/millenials and soon Gen Y around the world to keep it going but the boomers? Forget it they have stock portfolios and fiat and shit that doesn't dump 10% in a day

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:48:21 2018 No.7725204 from you to the whales

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:49:49 2018 No.7725222 >>7725101 Toppest of keks. None of them will be able to use the Mexican exchange either or too poor/stupid to use futures

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:50:03 2018 No.7725228
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>>7725172
they don't want it but you see that bounce off 6000? nobody incredibly rich does something without rigging the game. a lot of notable people say they own bitcoin - there are more that haven't disclosed.
when you own the financial institutions all you have to do is pass orders down the chain for your money managers to shill it. you call your buddies in the media and have ellen shill it. it'll be a small part of a balanced 401k in many years, and that's how they'll get away with it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:50:14 2018 No.7725232 >>7725082 Those who cling to inferior currencies while the world changes beneath them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:50:57 2018 No.7725247 >>7725082 From retards like me who sold at 8k

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:51:26 2018 No.7725252 >>7725082 This anon we've made it we are the early investors

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:53:51 2018 No.7725283 >>7725172 It's difficult to understand for techno-illiterates and difficult to acquire. In one, maybe two years it'll be made easy and boomers will "invest" in BTC via their banks. 2021 is when the great dumpening happens.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:55:10 2018 No.7725295 transferred from late adopters to early adopters. thats all.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:55:39 2018 No.7725302

>>7725082
from those who understand what crypto is later, to those who understand what crypto is earlier.
it's still very early, so all current entrants are transferees, and will certainly be until around 500x from here. until then it's not even questionable. then it will be up for debate.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:56:09 2018 No.7725308 Testing

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:56:26 2018 No.7725312 >>7725283 bitcoin ETFs have been in regulatory limbo for a couple years now, but that's another possible way https://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/919349/Bitcoin-price-JPMorgan-ETF-holy-grail-cryptocurrency-news-XRP-USD

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:56:39 2018 No.7725315 >>7725082 You don't get it. It is going to be one of the greatest transfer of wealth in history but at the end of the day the rich will end up even richer with crypto

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 02:59:16 2018 No.7725344 From those who sell in late January every year to those who sell in December every year.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:01:03 2018 No.7725364
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I kinda feel bad for my parents. They don't understand crypto and so steer clear of it despite their debt problems. They're going to miss out on gains that are unheard of.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:01:53 2018 No.7725378 >>7725228 That pic's probably some oil prince playing with daddy's money.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:05:06 2018 No.7725419

Do you guys honestly believe that bitcoin will be worth more than a grand in 5 years time? Nothing which has no utility other than speculation maintains its value forever - something which people buy because they think other people will buy for more can never last.

Or do you think a payment system which is completely public, does THREE transactions a second, it about to use a fucking mWh per transaction, is extremely volatile and takes a minimum of ten minutse is going to be the currency of the future?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:06:50 2018 No.7725449 >>7725120 This is some tinfoild hat bullshit, none of that garbage is remotly close to reality. Send that retard to a mental institution. This is the kind of shit weirdos come up with

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:07:19 2018 No.7725453 >>7725419 Who gives a fuck? Only brainlets hold BTC long-term.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:09:23 2018 No.7725487 >>7725453 only brainlets need to trade and invest in short term shitcoins, desperately trying to catch up to the gains us early adopters have had.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:10:41 2018 No.7725503 >Bad traders->good traders also it's not the greatest wealth transfer in history

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:10:59 2018 No.7725510 >>7725453 Right so you're knowingly investing in a bubble, thinking you'll get out early. You may time it right sure. But you might not - no one knows when this thing is gonna pop. Your expected value for investing in a bubble is 0.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:11:54 2018 No.7725515 >>7725419 >>7725510 blah dee fucking blah all I hear is an envious retard

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:14:12 2018 No.7725546

>>7725419
As long as it makes a buck, who cares? Truth is I'm not sold about bitcoin being the harbinger of the "cashless society" of the future. It takes 30 minutes to an hour to confirm a transaction, slow as fuck, wallets can be lost due to hardware malfunction, totally reliant on the internet (if the internet infrastructure is lost byebye crypto) and is vulnerable security wise once quantum computers become powerful enough to crack conventional computer security algorithms.

Until computers become fast and secure enough to do away with all these problems, I don't see how it can replace fiat any time soon. Transactions are instant, you can carry it around without worrying about losing your hardware, it is convenient and you don't have to buy expensive hardware that is prone to degradation and failure over time just to store and hide it away. Heck, you can just hide your cash under your mattress if you want to hide it but plan to use it later.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:17:16 2018 No.7725580 >>7725082 the meek shall inherit the crypto

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:17:47 2018 No.7725584

>>7725515
Do you actually have any interesting to say?
>>7725546
Right but my point is that in the end if you don't exit the bubble in time, you lose your money, otherwise you'll make it. No one makes money in the whole situation.

So I'm not just saying this is a bubble. I'm saying I don't think you'll make money off it, since you don't know when it pops and therefore can't get out in time.

But maybe you think you do know when it'll pop, in which case my argument is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:25:01 2018 No.7725665 >>7725510 you clearly bought high and sold low.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:28:45 2018 No.7725712

>>7725584
>Right but my point is that in the end if you don't exit the bubble in time, you lose your money, otherwise you'll make it. No one makes money in the whole situation.
Then simply don't be a retard in the situation. It's that simply. Yes not everyone can make money but most can also be said of stocks, mutual funds, futures, bonds and other financial instruments. Early adopters and institutions always win.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:34:47 2018 No.7725786 >>7725101 Boomers have real assets like property, why would they want le internet money? You millennials are fucking insufferable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:35:55 2018 No.7725800 File: 296 KB, 401x522, 1518813745715.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] BTC is tulip mania.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:37:40 2018 No.7725826

>>7725665
That's not an argument... I sold when bitcoin was 18k my meagre stock of 300 BTS not that that makes any difference.

>>7725712
Very few people beat the market when you look at those instruments. Funds notoriously do much worse than indexes.

Imo, you can beat the market by choosing stocks with good fundamental and holding them over decades. But trying to time markets is a fool errands - you think you're more intelligent than everyone else but you're almost certainly not?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:38:08 2018 No.7725835

>>7725800
wrong
BTC is Military Intelligence releasing software before the CIA / One world Gov had the chance to.

They have to remove a certain amount of financial leverage before taking back the executive branch from criminals.

All the GOOD GOOD happening is cause the BAD MONEY is being DRAINED.

The 'machines' are functioning how they are supposed to.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:39:33 2018 No.7725851 >>7725449 You think they arent going to take this shit over...really...of course they are we just need to figure out how to get as much as we can out of it before its another Gov tool

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:40:04 2018 No.7725867 >>7725419 >increasingly nervous man

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:41:13 2018 No.7725885 cashless society IS going to happen tf NWO??? Mark of the beast??? DUH you autistics the government WILL control this technology you just need to get rich before then.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:41:22 2018 No.7725887 >>7725851 coward bitch nigger

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:41:24 2018 No.7725888

>>7725851

The government is a massive massive organization fille with conflicting individuals and departments. It's insane talking about it like it's one person.

The people working at the FED and the bank of england are just for the most part normal if slightly nerdy people you know.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:43:11 2018 No.7725917

>>7725449
stay with your eyes closed, you can even watch cnbc. there was a regulator saying what i posted in that pic in a few words. the rich are going to be conning the average person and telling you right in the media.
why else is there so much money going into crypto? it's not two bots trading with each other on mt gox anymore. might as well come along for the ride.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:44:04 2018 No.7725933

>>7725826
If you have that mentality then what's the point of trying to invest?

>you can beat the market by choosing stocks with good fundamental and holding them over decades.
And in decades time you will be rotting away and probably in a wheelchair. Worse, you will be dead. Then what's the point of your investments. If you're so afraid of losing money then don't invest you fucking retard, it's that simple. You're just rusing and trolling now.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:44:18 2018 No.7725937 >>7725419 BTC tech is shit, some other currently unknown crypto will win. Volatility isn't a technological feature, it reduces with mass adoption.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:45:06 2018 No.7725952 >>7725887 >realistic >not autistic >common sense Its not like this shit hasn't been predicted since the fuckin 70s or anything...derp enjoy your crypto skin plant chip

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:46:02 2018 No.7725966 >>7725419 Literal retard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:46:07 2018 No.7725969 >>7725546 bitcoin is the proof of concept, and an open door to the future of decentralized society (((new world order))) that's okay. get in while you can.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:46:17 2018 No.7725973 >>7725487 It's not recommended to get emotionally invested to a specific internet money just because it made you high gains. Think like a robot when your purpose is to get money.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:48:19 2018 No.7725993 >>7725917 So what is your plan of action in the midst of that inevitably happening

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:50:04 2018 No.7726019 >>7725993 same as always just hold a pile of bitcoin because all signs looks like it's going to be pumped in the long run. if you're good trade with 25% of your stack, if you're bad trade 10%

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:50:30 2018 No.7726033

>>7725933

So i'm gonna probably be alive for five more decades. My point is investing in stocks with good P/E, low interest cover, decent dividends gets you a positive expected return.

Bitcoin is just a bubble, so the expected value is 0 unless you know when it will burst. It's irrational to invest in bitcoin if you think you don't know when it's going to burst.

Do you not understand the argument?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:52:12 2018 No.7726061 >>7725933 Just gamble with your mates if you wanna have a good time. Then you don't need to waste your time all day looking at charts.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:54:17 2018 No.7726095 >>7725885 bit coin is the cash you tard the 'cash' we have now is the fake

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:57:09 2018 No.7726141

>>7725419
>Nothing which has no utility other than speculation maintains its value forever

nothing maintains its value FOREVER, duh

on the other hand. gold, stocks (below the amount required for overtaking a company) have irrelevant intrinsic value compared to their speculative one. people buy them for not other reason but the belief that someone will buy it from them later on.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:57:28 2018 No.7726146
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>>7725952
if you are that fucking old
if you havent been paying attention AT ALL for the last two years

Youd realize the world is FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT after Oct31 2017.

EXPLODING crypto (all)
FUTURES open (btc)
COMMITTEES bulls (btc/ltc)
SAUDI ARABIA free from corrupt (ripple)
CHINA #1 US president in HOLY TEMPLE never before (NULS)

WAKEY WAKEY SLEEPY HEAD
THE FED is DEAD

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 03:58:39 2018 No.7726161 File: 97 KB, 304x288, 1505949961155.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7725082 Why do you think the SCHOOL SHOOTING HAPPENED Las Vegas 9/11 ALL THE SAME ALWAYS TRYING TO STOP THE PEOPLE NOT THIS FUCKING TIME

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:00:39 2018 No.7726195

>>7726033
It's irrational to stand completely aside. Honestly I look down upon my friends who have made 0 crypto investments even when I have told about every time we meet for 3 years. Like jeez, how risky is it to put a few k USD to cryptos instead of stagnating in your bank account.
You don't have to precisely predict the bottom and top, you have to make realistic expectations how much gain you want.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:00:50 2018 No.7726199 >>7726141 But that's just not true. I buy stocks and plan to live off the dividends. I try and get the cheapest ones to maxmise my yield. Gold I agree - but historically gold just goes up with inflation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:01:31 2018 No.7726210 >>7726146 >what is WORLD government retard the fed has to die otherwise amerifats would never allow it

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:02:43 2018 No.7726230 >>7726195 With the addition of market manipulators, you're also at a disadvantage. You're just gambling. Now if you think it's fun then that's cool. But you shouldn't expect to make money.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:04:06 2018 No.7726253 >>7726161 wut

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:04:25 2018 No.7726262 >>7725449 You’re exactly the kind of idiot they are stealing from and you deserve it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:05:03 2018 No.7726277 >>7726199 ICO-s are the new stocks. It seems crazy and unregulated hurrdurr but eventually everyone will transfer to that market.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:05:10 2018 No.7726279
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>>7725101
They'll be especially angry when none of us will want to buy their 1970's condo for $500,000 that they paid $20,000 for.

pic related. They honestly want us to pay them that much for something inside a literal slum.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:05:14 2018 No.7726281

>>7726033
>My point is investing in stocks with good P/E, low interest cover, decent dividends gets you a positive expected return.
And that takes decades to enjoy. By which time you would probably be dead or crippling in a wheelchair, which you would spend on your medical bills anyway. Nice job!

>Bitcoin is just a bubble, so the expected value is 0 unless you know when it will burst. It's irrational to invest in bitcoin if you think you don't know when it's going to burst.
It's also irrational to stand aside and do nothing when you know it has upsides. The point here is set realistic expectations and not go all in like a moron who thinks nothing more of a get rich quick scheme. You don't have to look at charts all day because it's money you know you can lose. It's called calculated risk genius.

You are a seriously bad troll and I hope you aren't this retarded in real life.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:07:20 2018 No.7726323 >>7726033 Stocks a bubble as well. PE ratios are out of control. Housing is too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:11:01 2018 No.7726393 >>7726033 How many of the DOW from 50 years ago - are still in the DOW?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:11:33 2018 No.7726402

>>7726230
Stocks is also gambling then.

You can come up with a hundred reason why not invest ANYTHING in crypto and convince yourself you're an honest man or whatever, but the only thing you're achieving is missing out from the biggest chance of your lifetime.
Doesn't decentralized technology ring any bells for you?
I mean major stock companies like Microsoft and Kodak are doing their best to be involved with blockchain revolution , doesn't that still ring bells for you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:13:21 2018 No.7726440 >>7726279 Who in their right mind would buy this shit? Are boomers actually this delusional ? This make 20k BTC look like a joke.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:18:29 2018 No.7726524 >>7725172 Nah, wait til their funds get in. Boomers rarely invest themselves - they entrust shit tier hedge fund managers with that task. It's gonna be tasty, all those Boomer tears in a few years time when this really DOES pop.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:23:24 2018 No.7726602

>>7726440
It's the mindset

>Property is ALWAYS going up! Forever and ever!
>Property will NEVER go to 0!

HEY DUMBASS BOOMERS WE DON'T LIKE PAYING 70% OF OUR INCOME TOWARD RENT.

This shit is going to end. Just drive 30 minutes outside of your city and you'll see massive development going on. Most millennials will just live with mommy, or move out somewhere else where it's cheaper and probably cleaner. The U.S. has a ridiculous amount of land, even near the coastal areas.

But do the math. 6 bed rooms, $800 each. I shit you not that's the going rate in my area. That's $4800 right there a month in rent. Some idiot property group with boomer investors probably bought it thinking it was a steal. They literally think our shitty economy will sustain people accepting such a piece of shit slum life paying $800 a month for 1 room and a shared bathroom.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:23:36 2018 No.7726604

Right there are two camps of people here:

Camp one knows there in a bubble but thinks they can make money. As I keep saying, if you don't know when the bubble burst your expected value is 0. Keep calling me a retard or address this point.

Camp two thinks decentralized blockchain 3.65 technology with BFT toiltetry distribution will change the world. The probably don't understand what the pbft algorithm is or what a merkle tree is but just think that major companies invest in them so it must be good.

>>7726402
Kodak -> major stock company.

A blockchain is just a distributed database. And even if the technology is revolutionary, why does a coin give you a claim on that value?

Stocks are gambling to some extent, but if you just sit on them you'll make steady gains over a period of time.

>>7726323
Yeah I think you might be right. But there are still some stocks with low P/Es that you can invest in. Bare in mind interest rates are low so everything has a low return atm.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:26:55 2018 No.7726664

>>7726033
>plan to live for 50 years
>think the system will keep trucking despite increasing debt, derivatives, pollution, dysgenics, demographics, wealth disparity, authoritarianism
it baffles me how nocoiners present themselves as rational when they're blindly hoping the future will be like the past
every indicator points to a looming crisis
only radical innovation can hope to curb the tide. in a world with less trust than ever, one might as well have a stake in trustless technology
while you sit here thinking we're all 19 years olds gambling our student loans and walmart wages hoping to get rich, some of us are millionaires hedging against possible futures

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:32:33 2018 No.7726738

>>7726664

For every debitor there is a creditor so it balances out. Life expectancy has been going up (until this year), crimes has been going down. Life is better now than it every was.

Demographics is a problem (e.g. not enough working population to support the elderly). Derivatives is fine (remember alot of deriviatives cancel out so measuring their absolute value is fine).

Wealth inequality is bad but I think eventually it will get so bad governments will crack down on it.

Anyway, how does bitcoin solve any of these problems. Does anyone have any arguments to say or I you just going to say ("muh boomer" - I'm 21 btw) or "muh retard" or "muh nocoiner".

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:34:14 2018 No.7726764

>>7726524
They're not gonna FOMO in at a later date. The people who FOMOd in already did.

The true value is when people start actually using the currencies in their respective ecosystems. For example, people using siacoin to buy cloud storage. If demand exceeds supply, then the price of the coin shoots up.

Countries will start buying things with their oil. They'll probably accept Bitcoin, or Monero, or a combination of both as to not effect the market. They can then use that to purchase other goods from other countries depending on the rate of exchange.

This is when things will really pick up

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:38:15 2018 No.7726807 It's transferred from nocoiners who buy who'll have to buy btc at 1m.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:43:08 2018 No.7726870

>>7726279

Housing prices have reached retarded levels because of banks offering free money , greed , plain idiocracy and corrupt governments that can't think further than their own cock sucking pension and fat salaries. No one can move because these prices. Young people are stuck in rentals and old people can't move because of sale tax and the fact everything else is expensive too so where will they move ?

The bank's fucked us all with the modern form of slavery : mortgage.

People are such stupid fucking sheep.
Fuck the housing market and fuck the banks.
Let's hope interest rates X3 so the market can reset.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:45:12 2018 No.7726901 >>7726279 Ghetto-tier house.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:45:37 2018 No.7726910

>>7726870
>The bank's fucked us all with the modern form of slavery : mortgage.
>People are such stupid fucking sheep.
>Fuck the housing market and fuck the banks.
>Let's hope interest rates X3 so the market can reset.
yeah pretty much
but like dont foam at the mouth at the 'banks' or 'bankers' it's a bigger fight than them
they are part of the system yes
but that's what BTC is the new version of that
its priced in as the core coin right now but it could move but right now it's the one

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:45:49 2018 No.7726913 >>7726870 Amen brother. Low interest rates fuck young people for the benefit of the boomers. Fiscal policy should be used to control inflation and interest rates should be fixed.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:45:51 2018 No.7726914 >>7725082 the same type of people who play at casinos remember, the house always wins

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:47:43 2018 No.7726939 >>7726914 > remember, i am a virgin

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:47:46 2018 No.7726941 >>7726738 The scary part is not your delusion. It's the fact that most of the population shares it. May God save us all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:47:49 2018 No.7726944 Ita adress from exchange you mongoloids.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:48:59 2018 No.7726955

>>7726602

Yep, Ikr?

Fuck that noise. Gonna buy property - as in a large chunk of cheap land in the middle if nowhere. Solar power, wireless internet. Build a concrete bunker hobbit hole for less than 5k and just vanish. Mine shitcoins for cash apart from whatever else I've got producing income. Hunt game like an apache for food.

Fuck the boomers. Their shit is going down.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:50:27 2018 No.7726971

>>7725082
Good question. You know where this goes eventually. Once crypto goes into yet another huge bubble stage (and it has been consistently been in this "bubble -> pop -> bubble -> pop" cycle) and the FOMO becomes truly mainstream every taxi driver, every student, every soccer mum, every broke wagecuck who spends his money on scratch off tickets every week to have 1 in a million chance of winning gets into crypto and then the ensuing seal clubbing is so fucking biblical the normies will cry bloody tears and go to government and beg for it to ban and regulate every single nook and cranny of our asses. I'm not a FUD spreader, look what happened in Albania once country wide pyramid schemes collapsed.
Enjoy your gains before the good times end. We have probably less than 10 years before the G-man fucks up everything and we won't be able to sneeze on the blockchain without 15 forms, 2 professional licenses and 6 permits and paying 3 different taxes at the end of the day. Also look closely at what happens during and after next G20.
You have been warned anons.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:50:38 2018 No.7726975
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>>7726604
The bottom of the bubble is not 0, unless you invest in a total shitcoin. The only thing that happens is that people get excited too soon before the technology is mature enough. So it will reach a high peak and return to a reasonable mean again.
Blockchain is here to stay, in one form or another. Decentralized currencies and applications are the future. Like it or not, but if they're possible, they just make sense and there's just no reason they shouldn't be decentralized.
Buying coins is just a different way of benefiting the developers and early investors of that coin. It's not that different from stocks when you think about it, but the coin themselves are also actually useable as an exchange of value.
My main point still remains: if you're not willing to risk even 5% of your funds into crypto, you're being way overly conservative.

>>	474896598236 Sat Feb 17 04:50:42 2018 No.7726976 >>7726913 Ladies and gentleman - may I introduce somebody who has NO idea what the fuck he's talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:51:00 2018 No.7726983 >>7726941 Yep. Oh and that "crime is falling" meme is bullshit. Look up the specific rates for individual cities and states. Increasing. Yet apparently, when you look at national rates its down. Bullshit to cover systemic failures.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:51:24 2018 No.7726987

>>7725082
deadlines come and go all the time... someone has to pay up and if push comes to shove you'll take a lot of losses to not take defeat.

I read about a guy who hasnt touched BTC since he bought an oz of weed from silkroad for 100 back in the day

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:51:41 2018 No.7726991

>>7725419

You're absolutely right, anon. I'm playing in this casino until the vibe gets weird, then I'm cashing out.

Long-term, I could see value in some kind of PoS cryptocurrency (how else to avoid wasting terawatts on pointless bit-twiddling?), but nobody's figured that puzzle out yet.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 04:52:40 2018 No.7727000

>>7726738
Oh.and your a stupid cunt because the amount of debt is x100 the amount of credit if you took the time to research how banks create debt and credit you would understand this but you are not only delusional you are also ignorant. Fuck off. TLDR: banks need 1 dollar in reserve to credit 100 dollars for a new debt taker. You ignorant fuck. Governments were the ones to approve this system because politicians got payed off.

It's 2018. 10 years after the last housing credit crisis and today is x100 worse and people still are if ignorant. You have the internet. You are not an illiterate peasant without access to knowledge or information yet you still are.

FUCK OFF. Really.

Why I MAD? BECAUSE I did everything right and make x5 than the average Chad that didn't even finish high school but I can't climb the ladder because everything is over priced because saving became evil and taking loans became the norm. Over here flares fucking over priced houses cars and everything.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:01:56 2018 No.7727108

>>7727000

Banks maturity transform long-term debts into short-term debts. Their main limiting factor atm is capital requirements not liquidity requirements. Banks need to be solvent - so they have to back up their liabilities with good loans (in theory). This means the dollar is backed by debts from governments and companies offering future goods and services. Debt based currencies are a big advancement on commodity based ones.

Again though, just calling my delusional and a retard isn't an argument.

>>7726976
Simon Wren Lewis suggests this idea and he's a top economist from Oxford so the idea clearly has some merit in it. More stable planning since interest rates and inflation are fixed. The only problem is that it's inflexible to adjust fiscal policy, whilst monetary policy is instant.

>>7726975
I'm specifically talking about bitcoin

>>7726941
Okay believe that the whole world is going to shit Mr. Edgelord. Btw, I don't think anyone knows what's going to happen in the future, but the present and the past is a good guide - it's all we have.

>>7726991
How do you know though? Make sure you don't invest more than you're willing to lose.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:02:08 2018 No.7727113 >>7727000 Kill your leaders and live in their houses, then.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:02:55 2018 No.7727120

>>7727000
>banks need 1 dollar in reserve to credit 100 dollars for a new debt taker. You ignorant fuck.
it's $1 for every 10, and that's in lieu of printing more physical money since something like 90% of today's money is digital. the total amount of cash is still roughly tied to the country's GDP, which is to be expected.
I'm guessing you learned about fractional reserve banking on some conspiracy website that tells you everyone who tells you otherwise are lizard men.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:03:14 2018 No.7727126 >>7727108 No worries, I've chipped in ~0.5% of my current net worth. If it goes "poof," I can deal. If there's massive upside, that's lovely.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:04:00 2018 No.7727138

Still though this argument has yet to get a counter-argument in this entire thread.

Nothing which has no utility other than speculation maintains its value forever - something which people buy because they think other people will buy for more can never last.

Or do you think a payment system which is completely public, does THREE transactions a second, it about to use a fucking mWh per transaction, is extremely volatile and takes a minimum of ten minutse is going to be the currency of the future?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:05:32 2018 No.7727158 >>7727126 Okay I still think that's irrational, but if you're enjoying and it's a small amount that's totally okay. I wish you the best of luck on your investments. Really I wanna make sure no one money they can't afford to lose in bitcoin.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:06:06 2018 No.7727167

>>7727138

Bitcoin has reach it's limit. Privacy coins, though:

1. Facilitate deepweb markets, the original use for Bitcoins before normies (and law enforcement) figured out how to connect the dots.
2. Capital flight from rich, corrupt nations.
3. Capital inflow and daily transactions in poor, hyperinflated nations.
4. Hiding liquid assets fast, such as in cases of divorce.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:10:20 2018 No.7727215 >>7727138 BTC is only the gateway, don't take it too seriously.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:15:06 2018 No.7727269

>>7726975
>there's just no reason they shouldn't be decentralized.

I am a professional software developer, and I can tell you all professionally that this statement is moronic.

Centralized services are 10000x more efficient than decentralized consensus networks, not to mention proof-of-work mining.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:20:29 2018 No.7727342 >>7727167 all of those services depend on a stable coin price. blockchain probably has a ton of legitimate use cases, but making 10x off speculation isn't one of them. people betting on prices as an "investment" ruin it for everybody else.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:22:30 2018 No.7727368

>>7726738
>for every debitor there is a creditor so it balances out
lmao, no
google fractional reserve banking and start your education from there (NO youtube, read text)

>life expectancy has been going up
we're not talking about what life expectancy is in 2018 based on 2018 stats, but what it's going to be in 2050 in the caliphate of europe, or in 2080 when the whole planet is nogland. remember that's the future those same stats predict

>crimes has been going down
it's actually exploding in western europe

>governments will crack down on wealth inequality if it gets too bad
nigger, 8 people control 50% of the world resources... 10 years ago it took 50 people. AND that's on official statistics excluding family wealth like the rothschild

>bitcoin
cute moving the goalposts, bitcoin isn't all of crypto. but even with just bitcoin, trustless currency has by default higher censorship resistance: can't use quantitative easing to bail out your friends, can't indulge in fractional reserve banking, can't default on payment... a bitcoin is always a bitcoin. Bitcoin itself is flawed and has been succesfully subverted by Blockstream = AXA = Bilderberg, so what? That was try 1. Ethereum is already shaping to be better even if it has its own governance problems, and when ETH is subverted there will be a v3

>muh boomer, i'm 21
good for you? i'm 31 and i think you're batshit retarded. greatest asymmetrical opportunity of this century and you want to talk stocks and P/E because buzzwords make you feel like a big boy investor
swallow your pride and ride this opportunity, or bet your precious governments somehow won't screw you the way they did gen x and my generation. me, given a choice between control and no control, i know which one i like

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:24:16 2018 No.7727385 >>7727269 Crypto money isn't solving high efficiency transaction problem, it's solving the problem of trust. The efficiency problems came because of solving the first problem, now they have to solve that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:31:02 2018 No.7727462 >>7727342 Speculation and bubbles drive innovation. If prices weren't inflated, no developers would be interested in designing decentralized networks, they are very well paid anyway.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:33:01 2018 No.7727491

>>7727368
>lmao, no
yeah, the creditor is the bank itself

>it's actually exploding in western europe
all conventional sources of data are saying it's going down. you're going to need sources to state otherwise

>me, given a choice between control and no control, i know which one i like
control over what? you still have no say over the price of crypto, and 90% of it is owned by large institutions. at worst, you moving from people who have to at least pretend to have societal interests to people who are explicitly trying to make as much money as possible in a zero sum game.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:35:48 2018 No.7727523 >>7727108 The western world is going to shit and everywhere else already was shit anyway. Do you think the ever increasing suicide rates, depression, etc, is just a meme or doesn't count? Snap out of it, you dumb cunt. Turmoil is coming

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:38:42 2018 No.7727560

>>7727491
Volatility reduces with mass adoption, it isn't some technical feature of crypto.
If you have 2 options, which one would you choose?
>1. Mass adopted currency that that is artificially inflated and other people with "rightful" access can lock your account.
>2. Mass adopted currency that has well defined rules of inflation/deflation written in code and no other person has more authority that others.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:39:39 2018 No.7727574 >>7727385 >The efficiency problems came because of solving the first problem, now they have to solve that. Good luck doing that with Bitcoin ;) I'm betting on a couple other technologies.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:44:00 2018 No.7727619 >>7727574 BTC is only 10% of my crypto investments and only because normies buy it. When you talk about other technologies, what are you referring to? Just interested.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:48:16 2018 No.7727664 File: 109 KB, 960x960, flashback1988getreadyforaworldcurrencytheeconomistmagazine_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7725851

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:48:42 2018 No.7727674

>>7727368
In a bank every depositer is a liability and every debt they own is an asset. Their equity is a buffer which should compensate for defaults, variation in prices.

Assets = Liabilities + Equity by definition.

Fractional reserve banking is just maturity transformation - bank has long term debts as its assets (commerical loans, mortgages, personal loans) and short term debts as its liabilities (savings accounts, deposits).

A depositer to a bank is a lender to a bank. When they create a loan, they make both the loan(asset) and the deposits(liability).

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:50:33 2018 No.7727692

>>7727560
It has no well defined rules - the supply is fixed and demand for currency varies throughout the year and week. Inflation/deflation is unpredictable with a fixed supply currency making it hard to plan for the future. The supply of bitcoin has fixed rules - the inflation/deflation of bitcoin has no fixed rules.

Adoption of bitcoin by merchants is going down anyways.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:51:18 2018 No.7727701

>>7727462
>Speculation and bubbles drive innovation
don't know where you got that idea. don't believe there's much literature on what causes innovation but I'm pretty sure that bubbles are the aftermath. markets cast a wide net on new opportunities and only a lucky few take the bulk of the haul.
>If prices weren't inflated, no developers would be interested in designing decentralized networks
don't see how the inflated price of one coin would incentivize developers to work on new, legitimate uses of blockchain.

>>7727560
>Volatility reduces with mass adoption
bitcoin is demonstrating of opposite, isn't it?
>artificially inflated and other people with "rightful" access can lock your account.
I get you're making a point statement at fiat but inflation is relative to the amount of goods in an economy, which isn't consistent. national currencies need to be trusted and stable, and having a governing body isn't necessarily a bad thing for that goal.
>well defined rules of inflation/deflation
for crypto? what rules?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:57:10 2018 No.7727781

>>7727701
I'm beginning to give up.

I think these people are mostly undereducated workers who's lives are so miserable they want to believe they are special and that crypto is there way out.

So they're willing to sacrifice all their funds and take a massive risk in the hope of making it.

Sad really...

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 05:57:37 2018 No.7727785 >>7725082 (((they))) are foaming at the mouth alright jewish controlled media is fudding BTC nonstop if you havent noticed

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:01:44 2018 No.7727818 >>7727674 OY veyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy the banks did nothing wrong afterall

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:02:47 2018 No.7727834

>>7727692
My bad, I guess I have to say with each post that I'm not just talking about Bitcoin.
What I'm implying is that a good enough crypto will prevail that is decentralized, easy and cheap to use, anonymous by choice. I don't know if this will be achieved by a another PoW algorithm, PoS, sharding, hashgraph or whatever.
Predictability of inflation/deflation also increases with mass adoption.
To me it makes sense that you have 1 or few global currencies with transparent rules instead of hundreds of human controlled currencies of which the supply system has been made so complicated that the normal person won't even try to imagine understanding it.
Take example of ants. Individually they achieve not much. But with simple rules, together they create great things.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:03:11 2018 No.7727837 >>7727781 You need to find your way out of the closet Shlomo Entire thread full of: >"y-you're just a tinfoil hatter bro!" Anything not fed to you by CNN so you can regurgitate as you see fit doesn't register in that pea brain of yours

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:05:05 2018 No.7727865 >>7727781 I know, I'm having fun. I'm more respectful and effective when I want to actually change someone's mind, but it's a chore. It's also a bit of a exercise in exhausting someone's mental gymnastics.

... Sat Feb 17 06:09:10 2018 No.7727907

>normie 1 has a deer hide
>normie 2 has a cryptoshekel
>normie 1 sell the deer hide to normie 2 for the cryptoshekel

State cannot gets its cut, bank cannot get its cut, deer hide patent holder cannot take his cut, deer abusing non government organization cannot get their cut...

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:12:01 2018 No.7727950

>>7727701
If you're a developer and thinking of creating a startup, wouldn't you consider create something based on blockchain when you see hundreds of ICOs getting rich in minutes?
Maybe your intention isn't to make the world a better place or whatever but since you happened to be working on a blockchain solution, you solved problems with it while doing it anyway. Why do I have to explain this lol.
Bitcoin seems to be more volatile when you look at USD value in dollars, but take a look at the % graph. It's steadily growing and getting less and less volatile.
>About the rules of inflation/deflation.
Once the scaling problems are solved and 1 of the currencies gets "chosen", it will be a consensus of the people to choose the actual rules, which is literally changing the number values in the code.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:19:17 2018 No.7728019

>>7726199
oh, you're retarded then.

anyhow, most high-quality stocks, like Amazon, Facebook, Berkshire Hataway, Google, Yahoo, AMD, Apple, Ebay, Dell pay no dividends. and i don't know of any public company that GUARANTEES that they're gonna keep paying dividends as a portion of their profit indefinitely. you're just speculating that they will keep doing so, if you buy them in hopes you'll be able to live off dividends.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:30:30 2018 No.7728162

>>7727950
>If you're a developer and thinking of creating a startup, wouldn't you consider create something based on blockchain when you see hundreds of ICOs getting rich in minutes?
yeah, if I'm planning of have the coin "moon" so I can cash out as a millionaire. but that's not a legitimate use of blockchain, and only amounts to scamming people out of their money.
>Bitcoin seems to be more volatile when you look at USD value in dollars
I don't who you're trying to convince. look at it this way, there's no basis on what the price of crypto should be. some big bank could on a whim decide to start buying bitcoin at 16k again and everybody would go along with it. why would you care about the price as long as it's going up? it's win-win right? (it's not)
> it will be a consensus of the people to choose the actual rules, which is literally changing the number values in the code.
I'm starting to believe this "code" is some black box magic to you. there's literally no way to control inflation with blockchain code.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:31:06 2018 No.7728172 >>7725503 Yep. That comes next when someone on /biz/ invents real AI and buys controlling interests on every company on Earth, as well as enough bonds to tank any government. Then burns it all down for kek.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:35:07 2018 No.7728233 there is a constant transfer of wealth between the poor and the smart. 1918 or 2018, its all the same

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:38:15 2018 No.7728277

>>7726199
I'd research that again before you retire. last time I dove into that rabbit hole divined focused stocks didn't perform better than selling off the growth of normal ones.

>but historically gold just goes up with inflation.
too soon to tell but that may be changing. the last generation to live through the gold standard is dying off.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:39:38 2018 No.7728307 >>7725419 >Nothing which has no utility other than speculation maintains its value forever - something which people buy because they think other people will buy for more can never last. >what is gold

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:42:03 2018 No.7728343 >>7725082 money flowing from /biz/, twitter, facebook and reddit normies to the smart reddit users the amount of pink wojaks being posted here even in a bull run should be very telling

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:43:29 2018 No.7728362 >>7727269 >Cryptocurrency is the same as a software development nah

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:46:53 2018 No.7728416

>>7725082
It's funny, it's backwards to how you think this is. Wealth was never about how much currency you held, it was always about your ability to receive currency. Lambos, hotels, whores, whatever, a new money shovels this back to old money more quickly than a ragtag group of poors does.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:48:55 2018 No.7728443

>>7728162
>Developer
Don't be so edgy lol, yes there are scammers, but there's also plenty of legit developers in the scene thanks to the financial incentive.
>Volatility
The only thing that matters is % of change in value. And what I'm saying is that with mass, it's getting smaller. On one extreme there's shitcoins and on the other end there's daily fluctuations of USD/EUR. Volatility isn't some tech aspect about crypto, it's an aftereffect of low liquidity.
>Not trusting code
If I ask you to calculate square root of 154884.48372, do you not trust your calculator?
I rather trust the code than other people.
What do you mean there's no way control? PoW is a proof of concept of this , miners rewards are defined and complexity increases when there are more miners in the network. This is just the beginning and it already works.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:55:20 2018 No.7728533

>>7726033
>Bitcoin is just a bubble, so the expected value is 0 unless you know when it will burst.

1. It just had another huge correction from which it tries to recover.

2. Everyone calls it a bubble for at least two years. But how do you know it is one? Large price increases doesn't mean it's a bubble but a high demand. The price probably will stabilize at some point just like gold.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:57:36 2018 No.7728556

>>7728019
? Alot of companies fairly reliably pay a dividend. Some don't you'ew correct. Imo I don't think the stocks you mentioned are great. But a portfolio of diversified stocks will pay a dividend.

Most stocks in the ftse 100 and s&p 500 will pay a dividend - not sure why you think otherwise. FTSE 100 reliably yields 4%ish.

Btw I'm not saying stocks are free from speculation and bubbles.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 06:58:53 2018 No.7728576 >>7728277 Interesting - how long was your timeframe. It changes alot of many decades. Dividend yield was very different in the 60s than today for example.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:01:23 2018 No.7728612

>>7728533
I don't care about the price. Bitcoin is terrible as a currency - three tx/s, almost a mWh of consumption, 10 minute confirmation.

The argument that a) it keeps going up in value b) it's scarce are terrible arguments. Nothing which has value from pure speculation goes on forever.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:01:25 2018 No.7728613

>>7726199
>But that's just not true. I buy stocks and plan to live off the dividends. I try and get the cheapest ones to maxmise my yield.
That's just your expectation. What if the economy tanks or your company performs poorly? What if the company lowers the dividend for whatever reason? Almost NOTHING in life is for sure. Take a step back and try to see how ridiculous this is. Stocks and metals aren't more mature or better then cryptos. It's the same story.

>Gold I agree - but historically gold just goes up with inflation.
Historically Bitcoin goes up with rising exposure. Wow.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:02:45 2018 No.7728630 >>7726230 >With the addition of market manipulators, you're also at a disadvantage. This is also true for traditional markets. You're either a troll or fucking stupid. Jesus Christ.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:03:05 2018 No.7728635 File: 31 KB, 803x353, FTSE-All-Share-Total-Return-Dividend-Yield.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7728277 I'm quite focused on UK stocks as well so it might be different abroad.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:04:41 2018 No.7728664 >>7728612 Argument C: you can use Bitcoin to buy other cryptos with better tech. 99% of cryptos don't have Fiat pairings

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:05:53 2018 No.7728691

>>7728630
Yes but in traditional markets you can just sit on the asset and get interest/dividends/rent.

You haven't been paying attention to the argument.

My argument rests on the assumption you're buying something knowing its a bubble. In that case, you're purely trying to make money off psychology so market manipulation is especially bad since they have an information advantage over you.

In a traditional market, you can just sit on the asset through the manipulation.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:06:11 2018 No.7728699 >>7726524 ^this is true (at least for european boomers) Most people around me think that stocks and finance are risky and not worth it. Yet, they spend a lot of money on pension funds. kek

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:06:50 2018 No.7728715
File: 62 KB, 441x600, Hyperinflation-in-Germany-1923.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7728443
>there's also plenty of legit developers in the scene thanks to the financial incentive
legit developers aren't going to be paid by the coin they make. they have nothing to do with the price of bitcoin.
>And what I'm saying is that with mass, it's getting smaller.
and bitcoin as been doing the opposite, 3 days ago the price swung 10% in a day.
the volatility is there because there's nothing to inform the price other than what other people pay, and those people paid their price based on the price before them. this feedback loop is what causes volatility.
>I rather trust the code than other people.
not about the code. inflation/deflation is the ratio between a currency and the amount of stuff it's buying. you can get debilitating deflation if you don't print enough currency to match the growing amount of stuff made each year. the same way you get debilitating inflation when you print too much money.
blockchain can't control the amount of stuff made, let alone react to it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:08:11 2018 No.7728738 >>7725419 >Do you guys honestly believe that bitcoin will be worth more than a grand in 5 years time? Wanna bet on it?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:08:30 2018 No.7728743 >>7728691 >Yes but in traditional markets you can just sit on the asset and get interest/dividends/rent. I get gas from neo and ark from ark, this would cover my rent if paid any lul.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:08:55 2018 No.7728753 >>7728635 SXX baby!

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:09:36 2018 No.7728763 >>7726738 >For every debitor there is a creditor so it balances out. The absolute state of /biz/

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:09:45 2018 No.7728766 >>7725449 t. boomer that helped popularise the word "conspiracy"

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:15:23 2018 No.7728883 >>7728763 Yes For every pound lent a pound is borrowed is that hard to understand? E.g. If person A lends £100 to person B, then person A has asset owed £100, and person B has liability owes £100.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:17:53 2018 No.7728939
File: 20 KB, 652x390, US-International.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7728576
I just remember the logic being that companies that pay above normal dividends have given up on growth and will eventually be outpaced. and that a mixed bad performs better than going strictly with one or the other.
I'd look into international diversification as well. pic related
I ended up going with the boglehead approach myself. I could talk about it at length but there's already a well written wiki on it.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Bogleheads%C2%AE_investment_philosophy

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:20:08 2018 No.7728987 >>7728939 the fuck kinda graph is that

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:23:03 2018 No.7729054 >>7727368 Underrated post

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:25:41 2018 No.7729099

>>7728715
>devs dont get paid by crypto
Firstly, yes they do, it's very usual in ICO-s to be at least partly paid in cryptos.
Secondly the point I was trying to make is that if you're a developer in a successfully gunded ICO team, you make more money in a short period than you could have ever done in a normal industry THANKS to the speculation.
>Volatility
Yes you can say that the volatility has risen with recent excitement of people, but it's nowhere near where it was the first 5 years.
>inflation and produced goods
Macroeconomics is something I'm not strong in, but I do have economy master students saying that it's possible to have a fixed rule of 2% inflation, can't really comment on this.
BUT I would argue that blockchain can't control the amount of stuff made. There are plenty of cryptos focusing on the value chains of manufacturing of products, so in the future everything will be tracked from natural resources to the end products and whether that products or service was sold or not. So the info will be available digitally.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:27:07 2018 No.7729124 File: 25 KB, 809x446, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7729099 >Forgot to upload picture. This is BTC volatility index (30-day range)

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:34:35 2018 No.7729259 >>7725800 Tulips expire, BTC doesnt

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:43:05 2018 No.7729394 >>7725283 The second coinmetro opens for business that difficulty barrier disappears.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:43:27 2018 No.7729402 >>7728939 Yeah I would but international stocks have massive fees for FX, and I try to reduce fees as much as possible. I should look into getting an emerging and US index fund (although I hate the fees on funds).

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:44:43 2018 No.7729417 >>7729124 Jesus we need a second derivative here, the change in volatility is very cyclic. Very interesting graph.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:45:40 2018 No.7729439

>>7729099
>Firstly, yes they do, it's very usual in ICO-s to be at least partly paid in cryptos.
the point I was trying to make is that legitimate blockchain implementation isn't in currency. any practical use of a crypto coin have been pushed aside for speculation, making them useless again.
>but it's nowhere near where it was the first 5 years.
it's reduction isn't caused by more adoption. if you're seeing that trend in the graphs it's coincidental at best.
>but I do have economy master students saying that it's possible to have a fixed rule of 2% inflation
he probably meant mean you could increase the absolute number of coins per year by 2%. but that's not what inflation is; inflation is how much you can but with each bitcoin.
>I rather trust the code than other people.
I'm going back to this since you're opening up a new can of worms if you're implying that the economy should be controlled by code. and having some code measure GDP, which is significantly subjective is a terrible idea.
doesn't matter how impartial the code is, in the end it's made, installed and managed by a handful of corruptible people. you can say it's the same with government but at least then you have thousands of more government employees you have to pay off to keep your scheme hidden.
this video does a decent job of explaining why leaving stuff to computers is a bad idea, but for voting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:46:46 2018 No.7729464 >>7725364 People in debt should not have crypto.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:50:52 2018 No.7729549

>>7729417
from reading some of youre replies i can tell you are interested in low-risk assets for longterm investment.
crypto is the opposite.
its maximum risk, maximum profit opportunity and the volatility gets you from heaven to hell in like a few minutes.

crypto is no asset, its gambling. but its fun and the possible profit is incredible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:55:26 2018 No.7729636 >>7728691 >Yes but in traditional markets you can just sit on the asset and get interest/dividends/rent. Proof of Stake...

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:57:45 2018 No.7729683

>>7729439
>legitimate blockchain implementation isn't in currency
I think it's the first obvious application for crypto, what is your reasoning?
>this video does a decent job of explaining why leaving stuff to computers is a bad idea, but for voting.
All the problems he addressed is when the program is normal and closed source and could be controlled by 1 person. That's the problem cryptos are solving. If the code is public and changing something requires validations from millions of computers around the world, all these problems become irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 07:58:11 2018 No.7729694 >>7729549 >crypto is no asset, its gambling. Just like stocks.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:03:07 2018 No.7729789

>>7729694
>Just like stocks.
stockmarkets are regulated af and super slow.
also most companies do have actual applications that earn money. even if its only datasets of people, whats basically the gold of the 21st cent.

cryptocompanies have only one thing. and thats their promises. nothing else.

>>	shitstormsa Sat Feb 17 08:06:14 2018 No.7729860 File: 44 KB, 480x678, received_1592070104217859.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Just doing our part Auscoin taking taking token lol

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:11:50 2018 No.7729958 >>7727664 The Economist also predicted that the continued economical and political entanglement within Europe are making "wars a thing of the past". In 1913.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:14:19 2018 No.7730000

>>7729683
>I think it's the first obvious application for crypto, what is your reasoning?
anyone educated in economics will tell you that currency needs to be controlled by a governing body for a functional economy. crypto inherently doesn't allow for that.
>All the problems he addressed is when the program is normal and closed source and could be controlled by 1 person.
believe that video goes into open source as well. but that's voting, calculating GDP would be even worse. not that it matters, blockchain tech isn't even considering a project like that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:31:43 2018 No.7730306 >>7725419 What is Lightning Network? What is Rootstock? What are Schnorr Signatures?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:36:48 2018 No.7730401

>>7730000
In the video he addresses open source, but not decentralization. If you have a private key, everyone can verify that their vote is what they intended it to be. Also anyone can audit in. How is that not more safe then putting paper in a box and trusting other people?

Are you saying that people have incentives to change the way GDP is calculated? That sounds exactly a problem to solve with blockchain.
>currency needs to be controlled by a governing body for a functional economy
Right now the economy is functioning, but much better for the top few. May be it's time to try an alternative?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:39:21 2018 No.7730443 >>7730306 >muh lightnin netwerk HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 08:43:50 2018 No.7730513

>>7725546
You don't need expensive hardware to store btc you brainlet, if you have the phrase to re seed the wallet you don't even need a computer to keep it.

>>7728883
Many debitors use the same creditor which, I'm sure you can imagine, can cause problems, especially when the debitors can't pay.
>>7727674
>long term debts are assets and short term debts as liabilities
Most investment banks now can do a lot of commercial banking and vice versa in part due to the passing of the Sarbanes Oxley act in the US. This means that their assets aren't primarily the items that you mentioned but rather ownership in publicly traded companies, derivatives, bonds, and even an undisclosed amount of ownership in the Federal Reserve. Credit Unions are also increasing in popularity.
>>7729789
Crypto is somewhat regulated and it's treated as an asset. Speculation--yes, gambling--no.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:14:59 2018 No.7731029

>>7725546
It's not about bitcoin processing every transaction for all eternity. That's where layering solutions fit in.

>wallet lost do to hardware malfunction
You know your coins aren't physically stored on your hd right? If you lose your keys, that's on you.

>quantum resistance
btc and most coins are pretty quantum resistant.

I feel like you really don't get this or are just fudding.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:48:12 2018 No.7731658 ITT : Dunning krugerism from aging nocoiners who do not understand technology

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 09:49:53 2018 No.7731692

>>7727108
>I'm specifically talking about bitcoin

Translation

>I'm completely wrong about cryptocurrency technology but i want to win the argument so i'm going to focus on ask jeeves and talk about the internet will have no more influence than a fax machine

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:03:18 2018 No.7731925 >>7728664 And AOL will always be the gateway to the internet Fiat parings coming to bittrex, robinhood, and muh fairx (fuck XLM tho)

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:12:20 2018 No.7732055

>>7731925
lol I'm not implying that it will be like that forever, I'm bringing out one of the reasons to buy bitcoin at the moment.
Also many people skip the fiat part all together when trading, only trade between an altcoin and bitcoin whoever outperforms. Long term plan is to accumulate BTC.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:25:14 2018 No.7732263 >>7726279 that shit literally has jail bars on its windows and doors to prevent a break in. whod pay for that shit

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:28:53 2018 No.7732329

>>7730513

Sure - banks can invest in lots of assets, i used mortgages as an example. But banks are currently constrained by capital requirements, so they can't invest in risky derivatives or equities (arguably though, this just ships thecrap to other financial institutions). Not too familiar with the US system but I think all the banks have to be equity holders in the fed?

I think you're pointing out that although debt balances out, it can be unevenly distributed. So if you have a small proportion of society lending to the rest, that could be a problem.

>>7731692
The thread is about bitcoin. Why not actually attack my argument then just insult me?

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:35:34 2018 No.7732453

>>7732329
Sorry, that was unfair.

Bitcoin is really beginning to give the whole space a bad name for multiple reasons, so i detest when blockchain technology gets a bad name due to it

>shit tech
>shit PoW - wastes energy and is insanely centralized due to ASICs
>all of its good properties are done better in other coins

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:36:36 2018 No.7732468 >>7731925 >fuck XLM tho why?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:37:37 2018 No.7732486 >>7732453 >>7732329 Also the OP is not about bitcoin, so i'm not sure why you say that..

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:39:00 2018 No.7732510
File: 225 KB, 1450x2097, Chloe-Moretz-hat-style--03.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Institutional participation is still super low. Silicon Valley missed cryptos completely, they are still not in at all, they dont want anything that is decentralized. That is complete opposite of how silicon valley works.

Usually promising stocks get dumbed on regular people 10 years after with listing in public, but this time small individuals have been in before companies and insiders

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:43:17 2018 No.7732567

>>7732453
But the volatility problem, the network effect problem, the lack of stable inflation problem and no arbitration/consumer protection problem all seem to be a problem for any crypto/blockchain solution which tries to be a currency.

E.g. I would love Taler - https://taler.net/en/index.html to be a thing but it would never get the network effect to be used.

Also your right the thread isn't about just bitcoin. Problem is, I would need to know every crypto under the sun to have a position on it, which no one can.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:46:28 2018 No.7732618 File: 65 KB, 560x566, CMjEy6cWwAAT09s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7726524 This guys got it. We are in a reverse bubble. But instead of shoe shine boys, it'll be boomers getting in that signals the end.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:49:37 2018 No.7732671 File: 68 KB, 1221x803, MW-GA778_HYG_SP_20171226171102_NS.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>7725172 >they have stock portfolios and fiat and shit that doesn't dump 10% in a day no, it takes 2 days at 5% a day

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:51:01 2018 No.7732694
File: 14 KB, 975x692, tech-performance-2017-1 (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>7732567
>Also your right the thread isn't about just bitcoin. Problem is, I would need to know every crypto under the sun to have a position on it, which no one can.
No, but with all due respect you should at _least_ know the top 3, since they are dramatically different

>Bitcoin : the original (shitcoin) - slow, expensive and just a way to move bitcoin around

>Ethereum : It's a turing complete virtual machine that runs in the blockchain. To simplify it - If bitcoin is 'digital gold', ethereum is 'digital oil'. You can make smart contracts in ethereum. You can make DAO's (this shit is brilliant, as long as coded properly) in ethereum. Stateless Organizations that exist and operate with 100% uptime and no censorship with zero actual people running them.

>Ripple : another thing. Hated by many because it's the opposite of bitcoin. Hated by me because it is badStellar.

There is a reason that many people believe, myself included, that ETH will `flip` BTC.

https://www.flippening.watch/

Just look at how bitcoin has fallen in the market.

https://coinmarketcap.com/charts/#dominance-percentage

And look at the tech

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:54:12 2018 No.7732741 >>7732694 >no OMG on that chart smalltime

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:57:22 2018 No.7732802 >>7732694 I'm familiar with all of those. I've done work for bitshares (a DAO) and it seems at the end of the day like a normal company. So I'm most familar with bitshares. I love ripples rippling feature.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:57:48 2018 No.7732811 >>7725800 Please tell me the name of this thot and if there is anywhere I can see a dude ejaculate into her pussy.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 10:59:12 2018 No.7732835 >>7732510 >Silicon Valley missed cryptos completely how the fuck did this happen anyway

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:01:08 2018 No.7732872 >>7732835 money is cheap for them (was?)

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:01:20 2018 No.7732874

>>7732694
Most of the tech just seems to be the 1999 pbft algorithm and a merkle tree for ripple/stellar, none of which is new. PoW was novel for bitcoin, and so was DPOS. Sharding is novel (and I think the only way to scale).

But none of the tech justifies the prices.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:02:47 2018 No.7732895

>>7732802
You are indeed very right about nobody knowing everything about crypto. It's probably akin to tax law in that regard. I do not know about bitshares myself.

Could you share a bit about how doing work for a DAO functions?

If I had to guess I would assume they have some function that evaluates if work is completed satisfactorily or not and pays out cryptocurrency based on that via a smart contract. Or they skip that technology and the holders vote if you did it or not, which is probably the more practical current solution.

Also can I inquire as to your age or age range? You're much more mature than the average /biz/tard

to quote Stephenson.. “Software development, like professional sports, has a way of making thirty-year-old men feel decrepit.”, and crypto definitely does this

sorry for being an ass earlier, i shouldn't post before having coffee

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:06:31 2018 No.7732959 >>7732874 Admittedly i have not had the time to fully understand all the mathematics involved, but Stellar uses a novel consensus protocol developed by a Dr. David Mazieres at Stanford.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:07:33 2018 No.7732978 >>7732959 >>7732874 Forgot the link : https://www.stellar.org/papers/stellar-consensus-protocol.pdf

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:11:32 2018 No.7733059

>>7732895
Smart contract is useless for this kind of thing because you need someone external to evaluate whether the job you did was worth it. Smart contract is only as good as the data. You're always going to need trusted intermediatarys to connect smart contract/tokens with the real world.

Each job is assigned a number of hours it takes and is an issue on github. A project manager evaluates if you solved it. The project manager is given money by the bitshares reserve fund by a worker proposal, which has to be voted on by BTS holders. It's democratic.

I'm 21, soon to be 22. I work in a "fintech" (bullshit buzzword) company that detects market abuse.

>>7732959
I'm fairly sure that'll be a small adjustment to the 1999 pbft algorithm.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:12:32 2018 No.7733082 File: 89 KB, 694x532, 1518111534904.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw you realise that blockchain will be the backbone of the third industrial revolution

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:13:26 2018 No.7733101 >>7725247 But you did it right anon, buy high sell low

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:21:35 2018 No.7733259 >>7733059 What is your take on cryptos working on solving the oracle problem (ChainLink, Mobius, etc)

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:28:52 2018 No.7733412

>>7733259
Chainlink seems like a scam - crappy github repo. Not sure about mobius.

I also don't understand why you need a coins for this. But the incentives for developers right now is to stick a coin on anything because that'll make money.

My main concern as always is if you imagine everyone will scam you if you make it possible, they will. And I don't see why Sergey wouldn't just abandon the project. There is no incentive for him not to. Someone asking for money on the internet is in my eyes a scammer until proven otherwise.

If smart contracts become big (which I imagine will take decades of infrastructure, contract languages, adoption, testing), then I don't see what a small team of developers can do against people like bloomberg who specialise in this stuff.

Btw market data is utter dogshite. It's flat out wrong in many cases, even inconsistent with itself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:30:05 2018 No.7733447 >>7733259 New EU regulations are forcing exchanges to publish it which hopefully might make things better.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:31:23 2018 No.7733474 >>7733412 >yea guys everyone on the internet is a scammer

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:32:49 2018 No.7733508 Even if I want to get in on it now? All the (((sites))) need your passport or liense. Why can't I just get started without all of that bullshit?

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 11:43:42 2018 No.7733735 >>7728019 >he doesn't know what a REIT is but still wants to sound smart >2laughinggirls.jpg

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:04:54 2018 No.7734182

Didn't read any of the thread but here is my simplistic view. Central banks print money to issue debt. That debt is traded as a credit between people who work for businesses running off debts in fiat dollars which is put back into 401k, RRSP stocks mostly. The greatest transfer will be from banks holding the accounts for the debts to be repaid to "the new" peoples decentralized "crypto-stocks"/coin, token or whatever.its all the same basically. Currencies and business on the block-chains ledgers will be the new holdings corps built on credit instead of debt. But all in all...its all voodoo based on whatever humans consider valuable, commodities and services have true value. Currencies are a derivative of those which should be linked. At the end of the day (((they))) will pull the same old tricks, just moved into-blockchain. History repeats itself and (((they))) will swindle the simpletons that never understood finance and economics, same as they did getting people off the gold standard. We just happen to be in the game 2-5 years before the manipulation can supercede us getting very wealthy off of the herd of masses that will adopt.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:42:57 2018 No.7735072 >>7729464 Wrong. You should go to jail for saying that actually. Fucking Dave Ramsey shill. Leverage debt to become rich. If already in debt or not doesn't change anything it's the mindset.

Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:46:17 2018 No.7735140

>>7725082

It's not a wealth transfer it's a wealth transformation - what's actually happening is crypto is slowly eating / consuming fiat and central banks.

It'll happen slowly, people will sell - they'll oscillate between fiat and cryptos - however slowly over time what you should be interested in is the steady increase of the use of cryptos instead of fiat.

Only once it has consumed it all will this process truly be finished.

>>	Anonymous Sat Feb 17 12:46:35 2018 No.7735148 >>7728635 > Total Return down -5% > Dividend yield of 4% Stay broke

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