/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.765897]

Is it possible to switch into engineering at 50? Tired of my current career, figure I can spend the last 30 years of my working life doing something I enjoy instead

[Anonymous No.765911]

>>765897
Depends, are you going into it from scratch, or do you have some experience so that the transition will be somewhat smooth?

Will it be easy? Fuck no. Is it possible? Yeah, as long as you're willing to work like 4x as hard as people half your age. Most employers probably aren't going to deal with an older guy just getting his start when a younger guy with the same amount of experience will likely have way more energy, have less going on in his life (so he's willing to put more work in), and generally have more good years that he's capable of working.

The only advantage older people have is experience, and without that, you're going to have to put in a shit ton of work to get people to overlook all of the disadvantages that comes with age.

Also there will probably be a lot of teasing behind your back, but hopefully you can ignore all of that.

[Anonymous No.765921]

>>765897
>50 yrs old
>on 4chan
gtfo grandpa wtf

[Anonymous No.765927]

>>765921
You're the plague that has hurt this board.

>>765897
OP. We have alot of engineers here. This is a slow moving board, so you may have to wait a while.

Welcome to /biz/.

[Anonymous No.765932]

>>765897
Go for it. I knew a guy in his late 40's who decided to switch to law and is doing well with his new career.

>there will probably be a lot of teasing behind your back
I doubt it.

[Anonymous No.765944]

>>765911
Thanks. I don't expect it to be easy but I want to give it a shot, I don't have any engineering experience but I have worked for an engineering company before as a CFO/Controller.

>>765927
Thank you for the welcome. I've been on 4chan for a while, just not in /biz/, more of a pol guy.

[Anonymous No.765961]

>>765897
you're planning to work until you're 80?

[Anonymous No.765967]

>>765961
Yes, most people under 50 should be planning that. There will be no pension for us to fall back on, unless you have over 2 million bucks socked away by 65 you're not going to have the luxury of retiring at the same age the boomers did.

[Anonymous No.766035]

>>765944

>more of a /pol/ guy

Has your daughter and wife fucked a black guy yet, stormcuck?

[Anonymous No.766055]

Most engineers get thrown under the bus at 35-40 as they lose touch with current technology

[Anonymous No.766058]

>>766055
I'm 48 and shitposting on 4chan. Losing touch isn't really an issue for me. I just want to go into a field that is more technical and has the opportunity to work on real projects. I earn over 150k and am pretty much set financially, so I can easily take some time off and retrain.

[Anonymous No.766064]

>>766058
Idk man. People might be age-ist when they're hiring engineers. If you're set financially... do what you want. But, if it were me I wouldn't want to change careers if I'm already making 150k... financially secure or not.

[Anonymous No.766069]

>>765967
>most people under 50 should be planning that.
What are you talking about? Retirement age is completely based on your level of spending.

https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement

For example, assume a high 40% tax rate on your 150k/year for a 90k takehome salary. Starting from 0 net worth, if you all by yourself spend 40k/year (equivalent to the entire after-tax salary of the average American household), you need $1 million.

You can achieve that and become financially independent in 14 years, and much earlier if you spend less.

[Anonymous No.766079]

>>765911
>Yeah, as long as you're willing to work like 4x as hard as people half your age. Most employers probably aren't going to deal with an older guy just getting his start when a younger guy with the same amount of experience will likely have way more energy, have less going on in his life (so he's willing to put more work in), and generally have more good years that he's capable of working.

Listen up, pecker pilgrim: Young guys are shitty employees, ruining the firm's reputation with your little black backpacks and your red thread bracelets and your fucking "livedumb" rubber wristbands and your fucking taperfade fauxhawks and your goddam skinny suits with waist jackets and your coming to work so fucking hungover you can't do shit except wait for the end of the day and staring at your fucking Chinese symbol tattoos and getting ink poisoning from your fucking tribal tattoos and counting the STDs you've had in the last month alone. Fucking juniors.

>>765921
>gtfo grandpa wtf

Hey, peanut: That's five decades of experience your throwing your shit at. You'd be speaking Vietnamese now if it wasn't for those fucking 50 year olds defending your fucking draft dodging ass and your fucking ear gauges and your motherfucking need to party all fucking night long while dragging your .24 BA ass into the office all hung over with a gold flaked tongue from all the Jag you consumed on the company expense account and staggering aroound outside the club in your fucking soccer team shirt shouting "fuck her right in the pussy" with your company logo on the shirt that the boss's wife will be watching on the news the next morning while you saunter home in your fucking giant foam cowboy hat and sticking your finger out your zipper which you think is a hilarious visual to every one who goes past and laughs at you.

[Anonymous No.766081]

>>766069
You would be shocked at how many people massively underestimate how much they need for retirement. So many people think if they've paid off their house and have no credit card debt they can live off 40k a year but unless they're eating cup ramen for every meal they really can't. Those day to day expenditures really add up, and nobody spends the rest of their retirement just living in their house, travel expenses, eating out, new clothes, etc it all adds up. I was a financial advisor for a while and I'd say about 70% of my clients didn't have a clue about how much they needed and were going to be thoroughly fucked 5 years into their retirement if I didn't fix their finances for them.

[Anonymous No.766086]

>>766079
I love this guy

[Anonymous No.766088]

>>766079
Kek, you're an alright guy gramps.

[Anonymous No.766089]

>>766081
50% of American households (that usually means entire families, not individuals) make less than 40k after-tax dollars a year. The individual median income itself is less than 30k/year.

In fact, there's a lot of actually poor old people live off of 15k Social Security a year. 40k is literally the most middle class you can get, it is not cup ramen level. And after 65 you get Medicare.

If you're spending much more than that in retirement, it means you either 1) really like golfing, traveling, and buying new cars every couple years, or 2) are incompetent with managing your money.

[Anonymous No.766090]

>>765944
>just not in /biz/, more of a pol guy.
kek

[Anon No.766091]

Resign then do something online and enjoy traveling the world.

[Anonymous No.766092]

>>766089
>50% of American households (that usually means entire families, not individuals) make less than 40k after-tax dollars a year.
They're using the majority of that money to pay for their mortgage, kids, etc. Unless you're a single guy who lives with your parents and you stay that way that for 20-30 years you can't really afford to sock away 50% of your paycheck. Remember that the goal in retirement is to maintain the lifestyle you had while you were working. You're right in that you can save a lot of your pay and retire early but most people wouldn't be satisfied with the kind of lifestyle that means.

Average people have costs, they pay for weddings, travel, their kids college, new cars. The number of people who can save enough to live off for 30 years or more without working are very, very few. You'd need an income over 120k for that, and some very disciplined spending.

[Anonymous No.766093]

>>765897
What's the point? You'll have to go back to school and deal with students young enough to be your children/grandchildren and you'll graduate to work an entry-level job, which is a major downgrade from once being a CFO. This is assuming you find a job, of course. The whole draw of recruiting young employees is they'll do all the shit work you ask of them for shit pay because they lack the experience to get a job elsewhere. They're essentially tied to that entry-level job until they build up the skills, work experience and connections to jump ship. Because you already have those things from your prior work experiences, it's a major risk for any company to spend time and money to train and hire you because you could once again decide you hate what you're doing and decide to leave.

I assume you have a good amount of money saved up, considering you have the time and cash to go back to school. Why not use whatever skills you've gathered to try to start your own small business?

[Anonymous No.766098]

>>765897
Yes, possible, I know several people who had late career changes and I see plenty of older students.

30 years however? By 80 yur cognitive function will be too poor for you to do any competent engineering work.

Also, consider the cost and time of school, and starting from scratch in a career which is rapidly dwindling in terms of demand while supply continues to increase. Really, is it worth it? Probably no. Find other work in your current field That yoh might enjoy more.

[Anonymous No.766099]

>>766092
Yeah, and in retirement they're probably no longer paying for a mortgage or raising kids (and they shouldn't be), and they don't have to pay for suits and daily commutes.

>You'd need an income over 120k for that
I think you're just so used to having a high income that you don't understand how "average people's" costs and middle-class budgets actually look like.

I don't get how someone literally needs 120k to live well in retirement, having all the free time in the world, when the vast majority of Americans live on 1/3rd of that working full-time. They're just financially retarded.

I don't like linking this blog since his shtick has gotten a little too cult-like for my taste, but check the budget of this family in early retirement, raising a kid, and taking a bunch of vacation trips all the while:
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2015/01/16/exposed-the-mmm-familys-2014-spending/

[Anonymous No.766109]

>>766098
>30 years however? By 80 yur cognitive function will be too poor for you to do any competent engineering work.

Warren Buffett disagrees with you. How old is Warren?

[Anonymous No.766113]

>>766099
>I don't get how someone literally needs 120k to live well in retirement
They do if you're expecting them to live off that money for 30 years. My point about the mortgage/kids wasn't that you needed to account for them in retirement, but that the amount of a persons salary you expect them to save is unrealistic. It's obvious the more of your paycheck you sock away means the earlier you can retire, but very few people can afford to put more than 15% of their weekly paycheck into retirement savings.

My point is that people are living longer. Social security is going to be drained by the time everyone on this site retires, you won't have that to fall back on. You either need to save more now, a luxury few people have unless they earn significantly more than their living expenses, or need to work longer. You're using me as an example, but I'm in the top 2% of income earners, I'm well aware I'm in a position to save more and retire early if I want. The rest of this generation isn't so lucky and the majority of them are going to be working well past 70 in order to pay their bills.

[Anonymous No.766115]

>>766109
How many succesful trades has he personally executed in his old age? It's easy to keep being rich when you're already rich but to say the success of his company is all because of him now is not really accurate, when he has a bunch of other analysts and advisors and investors working underneath him to continue what he started.

[Anonymous No.766117]

>>765944
I'm working with a geologist who got his masters in mining engineering in his late 50s. It was an easy transition for him due to his work experience and degree.

Do you have a post-secondary degree?

[Anonymous No.766119]

>>766117
Yes, I have a Master of Finance and a Doctor of Business Administration. Currently working as the financial controller of a large accounting firm (not Big 4)

[Anonymous No.766121]

>>766113
>They do if you're expecting them to live off that money for 30 years.

No, you simply need 25-33x your annual spending invested. For example, someone with $2 million saved can live off 60-80k/year for at least 30 years without working a single day. All of this assumes no Social Security or 401k/IRAs.

My point was that "needing" to live off 120k/year in retirement is ridiculous. The "rest of this generation" just needs to cut back on the Benzes and iPhones and sock that money away. People like to shit on welfare queens buying HDTVs, but they're doing the exact same shit to a different degree if they are making over 50k/year and spending all of the money.

If you want to enter engineering for an exciting change of pace, you should, but there is no purely financial reason to work till 80 unless you didn't plan ahead.

[Anonymous No.766136]

>>766121
Living like a pauper so you can retire and...live like a pauper. That doesn't really sound like a great plan to most people. I think most people would choose to work longer when it came down to it. Also you're still vastly overestimating how much disposable income the average american has. "Save more" is good advice, but it's far too basic when so many people are struggling to make it from paycheck to paycheck. The average american over 65 has 80-90k in their 401k, that's not even enough to last 5 years.

The years where you're a single guy who has nothing but disposable income are great for sure, but you'll find that anyone who needs to support a family has real trouble with saving enough to retire on and it's not because they're all undisciplined spendthrifts.

[Anonymous No.766145]

>>766079
senpai

[Anonymous No.766149]

>>766136
Hey, if 40k/year/person is "living like a pauper," your idea of what poverty really is has been warped beyond all factual basis.

It is true that we are talking about stuff (retirement amounts, savings rates, etc.) that average Americans don't really calculate, which is admittedly a disgrace. And there are a lot of people struggling under poverty (for example, the bottom 20-25% of Americans either don't have bank accounts or frequently use payday loans, etc.). But that's a matter of financial education and literacy, not earning power. "Save more and spend less" would in fact work for the average middle-class American household. When people take out loans for shiny new BMWs that cost the same as their annual income, they are making an entirely preventable decision that destroys their financial freedom and leads to things like 70-year-olds with underfunded 401ks.

[Anonymous No.766163]

>>766079
Drop dead already you dusty shitbag.

[Anonymous No.766173]

>>766149
>"Save more and spend less" would in fact work for the average middle-class American household.
Where would you take the money from to save though? You're assuming the average american is spending their money on pointless shit when the average american spends less than 8% of their pay on entertainment. 33% goes to keeping a roof over their head, 18% goes to transport costs, 8% goes to food and 4% goes to health insurance.

[Anonymous No.766184]

>>766173
18% on transportation annually is way too high. Buy a 10 year old car. Boom $10k back in your pocket per year. Maybe $7k after gas and insurance.

[Anonymous No.766188]

>>766173
Let's do some minimal cutting:
>Transportation: $9002
This is the stupidest part. These here are the new BMW/ridiculous high-maintenance cars that are killing people.

Switching to mid-class econoboxes like an Accord, bought used (3-10 years old) would basically free up at least $3-4k/year (conservatively) all by itself in replacement and maintenance costs. More if you go something like Honda Fit.

>Food: $6602
If you were motivated, you could cut this by 10-20% without much sacrifice (spending 480 instead of 550/month) and get another $1000/year.

>Housing: $17148
When you pay off your mortgage, this should drop by at least 10k. You would be spending much less than $17k/year in retirement.

So an immediate $4k+/year in savings without even cutting back on entertainment and clothes, and another $10k/year in fewer expenses that you don't have to save for in retirement (being incredibly conservative here, note the budget of the guy I linked where he spends only $3k/year on property taxes and maintenance).

[Anonymous No.766218]

>>765897
I work in aerospace engineering for a company that's known to be very demanding of their employees and doesn't have a very balanced work/life ratio.

Consequently our employee base tends to skew much younger than the industry average. With that being said, we also have some top engineers who could probably have retired by now but love what they're doing too much.

The fresh out of college grads are great b/c they don't yet have many responsibilities/commitments in life but the above 50 guys are great too b/c they're mostly done raising kids. In my opinion, its that late 20's to 40's age that's toughest since most people are trying to balance their work life while starting a family.

This doesn't relate very closely to what you're asking but a good friend of mine went to college with a guy in his 40's. He had made enough money with his business that he didn't have to worry about retirement and went back to school to pursue his passion. He went to a community college and transferred to a UC to major in astronomy. The guy did well and actually got accepted to a graduate astronomy program after college. He was probably 50 by the time he got his PhD.

Take from that what you will but if you're serious about doing this it can be done and you're probably not the first to ever do it. Just be mindful of the challenges you'll face and the economics of it.

[Anonymous No.766244]

>>766173
Surely income before taxation is irrelevant for consumer spending?. I can only spend what I earn after tax ( or what I get loaned to me)

[Anonymous No.766249]

>>766079

>50 Year olds served in Vietnam

Oh my god..what would we have done had Vietnam fallen to communist influence?

[Anonymous No.766250]

>>766119
A Master of Finance would be valuable in my industry, mining - there are a lot of people from the financial world that end up as engineers and vice versa.

Mining's been down for the last 3-4 years but we're expecting the industry to improve in the next few, so if you want a job as a mining engineer you'll want to time this properly.

[Anonymous No.766252]

>>765897
i had a nearly 50 year old woman in a class i was a TA for. she bombed the exams despite constantly seeing me for help. i would have to explain the same thing multiple times before she would get a basic grasp of the concept. this was an introductory engineering class, too.

[Anonymous No.766274]

>>766252
She was just dumb. Personally I don't think age has much to do with how well you can understand new concepts, it's just that people are generally lazy and once you're past 30 you just want to do your job and stop with school.

[Anonymous No.766284]

>>766252
>>766274
I'm a finance/accounting tutor at my uni and usually the middle-aged people I tutor are the hardest working, yet have the hardest time trying to grasp concepts. One women in particular would text me for help late at night past midnight working on practice problems. It would take me 10x the amount of time trying to explain a topic to her than it would a younger student in his/her 20s. The professor ended up giving her a pity "C" because she had been to his office hours asking for help every week of the semester. But she completely bombed every exam (highest grade all year was a 50%).

All my younger students (18-25) generally passed or failed based on how often they asked me for help or how much time they spent studying outside of class.

[Anonymous No.766488]

Go for it, but..
can you do calculus?
i'm not talking about "calc for biz majors" either
calc 1, 2, 3
How about differential equations?
How about physics?
how about chemistry?
These are all courses you'll need to take to get your engineering degree.

[Anonymous No.766511]

>>765897
Probably not man, unless youre really bright. Used to have a guy ~50 in my engineering class, he was fine for 2 years, but couldn't crack what was that shit... either Vector Calculus or some Probability Course for engineers. Had three tries to do it. I didnt know or care much for the guy but still... Feelsbadman.jpg.

[Anonymous No.766512]

>>766079
>You'd be speaking Vietnamese now if it wasn't for those fucking 50 year
McCain please go.

[Anonymous No.766517]

>>766488
>calc for biz majors
That's a thing?

[Anonymous No.766519]

>>766488

Well isn't the point of doing the subject to learn the material? Algebra is about the extent of my math knowledge, but I'm fairly confident I can pick up what I need to within the span of a subject.

[Anonymous No.766523]

45yo reporting in.. changed career at 40.. from teacher to forex algorithm quant... as in life as in the markets the only constant is change.

sure.. you can change careers...

[Anonymous No.766560]

I'm planning on doing that except I'll start the degree when I'm 30. I'm 25 now, recovering from a dumb liberal arts degree. Math is gonna be hard but I'm determined. I do know it's not as simple just going to class and learning, I know a real smart guy that just couldn't get into calc II. Gonna do my best.

[Anonymous No.766672]

>>766560

How do you plan on getting on a course like that?

I'm currently taking a shitty business degree but am seriously considering dropping out. I want to do my own thing for a few more years and then hopefully get on a course that's mining or engineering related when I feel like moving on. I'm just concerned that nowhere decent would accept me.

[Anonymous No.766736]

I'm an mechanical engineer in Germany.

It is really fucking tough tbh.

I would consider IT engineering because it is a lot easier to learn by yourself.

[Anonymous No.767758]

>>766523
Thanks 40yo fired here. Going back to school for CS. Fuck it. All work is going to be done by self driving cars in ten years anyway.

[Anonymous No.767861]

>>766188

Roughly 90% of Americans lease their cars

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/08/shocker-premium-buyers-actually-lease/

>45% of premium cars are leased

This shows that more BMWs, Audis, Mercedes, and Cadilacs, are driven by poor people than rich people.

I honestly can't fathom how you can have an annual cost of 9k just on transportation.

My car is worth about 4k now, was 10k when I bought it 10 years ago, and it takes less than $25 to fill up the tank twice a month. It costs me maybe $600-$800 a year on gas. Everyone has minor repairs on their cars, but 9k a year buys me a "new" car.

People would rather be poor and look rich than actually be rich and look poor