MBA sensible option for success?

[Anonymous No.730322]

biz, is the MBA necessary for true success?

even if you were to attend top 10 school does it help to find real success?

how much is the "prestige" worth of attending top school?

[Anonymous No.730342]

>>730322

Bump, i'm interested too

[Anonymous No.730353]

MBA's are mainly for the connections and relationships you make, not necessarily the knowledge.

Think of it like this. Lets say you work in investment banking or private equity, so at the senior level in these jobs (and really senior in almost any other jobs) you're responsible for sourcing your own clients.

All the people you went to business school with by now might be CEO's of companies and you very well likely might still be friends with them, so if they're going to do a small equity raise, say 500 million USD for example, they'll go to you at not the other guy at Barclays or some other bank.

tl;dr connections that will be very profitable down the road.

Note: also useful for people switching industries, IE, tech undergrad, wants to get into biz, then MBA is perfect.

[Anonymous No.730356]

Sorry forgot to answer your other question.

Prestige is really important for business schools (and undergrad for that matter) for the reasons I mentioned before, and also because most high-finance or very competitive industries are very pedigree focused. I.E. there's not many open positions, so the people doing the hiring can be very picky and say, only recruit people from Stanford, Wharton, and Harvard if they felt like it.

Also MBA is required for many jobs to get promoted to partner track. Depends on the firm but for private equity for example, usually people do a 2-3 year associate stint, then are forced to get their MBA, and then they come back as a senior associate on partner track. Some firms might promote directly to senior associate without an MBA but that's becoming increasingly rare, especially at the larger firms like KKR, Bain Capital, Apollo, etc.

[Anonymous No.730362]

>>730322
no

[Anonymous No.730364]

Apologies for my rambling but basically OP your question is too broad.

It all boils down to what industry you want to work in. Depending on the industry an MBA might be absolutely necessary, optional, or not needed. If you want to work in a hedge fund, MBA isn't needed. If you want to work in private equity, you'll probably need to get your MBA if you want to get promoted to partner track.

When given the chance, always try to avoid the MBA just because 2 years working and making progress towards the next promotion (and getting paid) is much better than the monetary cost (and opportunity cost) of going to business school.

[Anonymous No.730380]

would a business BS or a business BA be a good idea if all i want to do is make 60 thousand dollars a year the easy way? American btw.

[Anonymous No.730382]

>>730380

Yeah but don't settle for 60k. You can easily start off at 60k at any F500 company FLDP and work your up the works to maybe eventually 200 or 300k / year ezpz.

I don't get why so many people on 4chan stress your major so much. Major isn't as important as internships/extracurricular activities.

[Anonymous No.730687]

>>730322
>MBA Bubble
>What is a bubble ?
>lol m8 no need for education cuz education bubble !11!!1!
>no need for life cuz life bubble, too much people are living rite no !!!1!!

[Anonymous No.730698]

>>730687
you're right.

The MBA thing isn't so much of a bubble as it is a signaling externality. Basically every time someone who is as talented as you gets a higher degree than you, and assuming that this makes them more likely to be hired, then it lowers your profitability. This means that you also need the degree to keep up. Soon enough everyone needs to get degrees, because once a large enough percentage have degrees then it becomes okay HR policy to just throw out resumes without advanced degrees.

If MBA degrees actually made you that much smarter then it is possible to believe, given enough subsidies and upwardly rigid tuition, that this could be a bubble. If you think that schools don't have any problem raising your tuition and that the government doesn't do much to fund MBA attendance then the appearance of over-exuberance is really just the market over-provision of a negative externality, which in this case is signaling.

This doesn't mean that going to school is bad, which it isn't. What this does mean is that, since we can't pay other people to not go to school, the negative income effects that you incur do to other people going to school will be over-provided by the market, and we would then expect to see more people going to school than would be Kaldor-Hicks optimal.

This is just like car pollution. Since people do not internalize the negative costs of driving their cars we see more pollution than is socially optimal, even though cars have an unambiguously positive social impact.

[Anonymous No.731455]

OP, your question is confusing to me.
Is it a 'sensible option for success?'

I can't recall the source, but I think it was in a successful entrepreneurs book -
He said he made millions more than his father, (who had an MBA, and was never anywhere close to being rich, but then he wasn't an entrepreneur) despite no education beyond high school.

His father told him later that the MBA he had was no guarantee of success, and is not designed for that purpose necessarily.
The real purpose of an MBA, in his opinion at least, is to minimize the probability of making huge mistakes, and making less smaller errors.

For example, the author in question wasted a lot of time doing stupid stuff early on, like not realising he should be acting like an executive ASAP and delegate/outsource/systematics/automate/ask advice from peers continously.

He would get a piece of info or an idea and go to work on it before taking a step back and getting some opinion. He spent weeks on things like IP and patents, going in circles, not realizing patent lawyers/attorneys existed and he could get results in a day or two for a couple hundred bucks and much less effort, since his issues were so basic to them.

An MBA is more a springboard or framework for success, it's not a magic pill.

For instance, I always study business, marketing, biz law, etc. But I am winging it and have no real framework - a process of what to do at what point.
You get familiar with business terms and parts of the process as an MBA student, and can get your dumb questions out of the way and network whereas I have to keep googling shit because I hustled to get where I am and skipped a lot of shit along the way.

There is nothing special about any qualification if you are competing with 50k people graduating every year, plus the peeps out there who already have them from years back, but have experience too.

Tl;dr - IMHO, don't think MBA = more success, think MBA = less failure

[Anonymous No.731466]

>>730382
>gf currently studying physics engineering and nuclear engineering
>got full ride to on of the best engineering schools in usa
> good grades and is in multiple clubs
>she has applied to over 60 internships this summer
>always gets emails back saying they went with a different candidate with more experience


thats how fucked the system is. you need experience for internships


>go to local library last weeks
> has sign saying they are hiring
>13 $ a hour
> bachelors degree required

[Anonymous No.731537]

Anything post-bachelors is a waste of time. People define themselves in the field not a classroom. I work with tons of people with fancy degrees and they are useless.

[Anonymous No.731559]

I was just offered a position as a Senior Business Intelligence Analyst for a major global telecommunications company.

Initial salary is $94,000/year plus immediate benefits and hiring bonus of $3000.

I have an Associates degree in music from a shitty community college in eastern Oregon.

I'll probably be supervising some people with MBAs though

>nb4 boomer
I'm 41 so I'm actually Gen X

> nb4 nepotism
I only know one guy who works there and he does desktop support

***
America is a nation of great opportunity. Take it.

[Anonymous No.731570]

>>731559

Do you know what you will be working on? I was an accountant and I just got promoted to Senior Business Intelligence Analyst due to my VBA knowledge and my report creation in our SQL front end. I have yet to do any direct SQL "programming" but I'm gonna pick it up in my spare time. Are you learning a BI suite?

[Anonymous No.731680]

>>731570
tableau certified nigga reporting in

[Anonymous No.731687]

>>731466
Welcome to Obama's America.

Canadafag by the way; so, basically any Canadian MBA will be equally "worthwhile"...as long as you're willing to stay in Canadian-based operations.

Inb4 muh Schulich-Ivey-Rotman-Queens-McGill

[Anonymous No.731723]

>>730380
Almost all engineers make 60k starting

[Anonymous No.731731]

>>731455
I started my own biz after high school and I pretty much just had to wing it. Google was my friend. I made a lot of stupid mistakes that someone with a business degree probably would have handled much better. I had no real framework to start with.


I'm still young and make enough to where I could afford college no problem. I've been thinking of going to get a degree in business or another field I'm interested in. Honestly tired of the self-employed life and all the headaches that come with it. I'd be happy making 100-200k a year working for someone else if that meant I would only have to do my job and not take care of everything. If I where to get a degree would 4+ years of running my own biz be enough experience to land me a job?

[Anonymous No.731748]

>>731687
Which is best Canadian MBA though?

[Anonymous No.731959]

>>731731
Can you clarify that?
I'm confused by your story.

You started a business, you now want to get a degree, so you can get a job?

Biz-degree-job?

This is literally the reverse of how most succeed, which is -

Job-biz-degree

So was the business successful, or not?
It can be tricky to market yourself as a potential employee when you've had success early on being independent, for the sole fact that from an employers viewpoint, you may resent authority and crave independence. I would be concerned those instincts would emerge again in future and you may either get another business going and just leave without notice, and that you're here to 'steal knowledge' or poach employees.
Also there is the fact you may influence others to leave, deliberately or accidentally, when your business history becomes known and other employees start asking how you did this or that.

If you watch any series/season of The Apprentice, while it looks impressive to have or have been a self-starter, or to have a business already, those candidates are often scrutinized more heavily for the above reasons and viewed with a kind of suspicion that they may rebel.

Often those with that kinda background do well early on, then clash with others or rebel and quit, because they can be difficult to manage. They, like you, are used to calling the shots, not being a middle manager or being criticized. They also get penalized more since they cannot feign ignorance as easily.

('you ran/run a business, and you didn't know THAT, you idiot?)

Once my ego took hold, once I proved myself TO myself, I realized I am no longer employable.

I would collaborate with you, but employ you?
Nope.

Would you steer a ship towards an iceberg if the captain said so?
I would probably throw him overboard and declare mutiny.

[Anonymous No.732160]

>>731570
>Do you know what you will be working on?

Everything. Financial gains/losses/opportunities. HR issues like attendance and attrition. Product and service usage, outages and response time. Probably more.

I'll be focused more on modeling than analytics but have to do some heavy analysis just the same.

> Are you learning a BI suite?

I already know SQL including SSIS, SSRS and SSAS. I've learned MS PowerBI over the last year. (What a shit product).

Recently learned essentials of Tableau but have lot more to learn.

Know a lot about stats which helps, know a lot about data modeling and design, performance tuning, ETL design, job scheduling

[Anonymous No.732161]

>>731687
>Welcome to Obama's America

Lol I don't know what you're doing wrong but you're doing it wrong

[Anonymous No.732336]

>>732160
15 BI veteran with an MBA reporting in. The single greatest data skill to learn is dimensional modeling. It's on of the few truly portable skills, though SQL syntax is a close second. Every firm will have a slightly different BI stack but a flexible dimensional model will provide the greatest value. If you can mentally abstract what that should look like it will put you far ahead of the game.

As far as the MBA goes, if you're not in a prestige competition where the schools name matters more than your knowledge then the value is in credentialing. I didn't learn a lot of new things getting my MBA. Mostly refinement and confirmation of assumptions. It did open doors though when I went job hunting.

[Anonymous No.732644]

>>731959
Ofc I meant job-degree-biz

[Anonymous No.732660]

>>730322
I wouldn't ever hire an MBA. Look at the crash in the economy that was developed and operated by MBAs from 2007 to 2013. I thought MBAs were supposed to be smart.

[Anonymous No.732670]

If you're paying for an MBA, you're doing it wrong.

[Anonymous No.732695]

>>731570
>tfw work my ass off for this position, hold certificates in it and have a CS degree, w/ CS&Management MSc and this guy gets it for some VBA.

Sometimes I don't know why I work so hard, just to get a decent job.

[Anonymous No.732697]

>>731559
So how did you get this position with an almost-degree in music?

I cannot get one with relevant BSc, MSc and certificates. Tell me your secrets.

[Anonymous No.732698]

>>731687
>Welcome to Obama's America.
Same in Obama's Germany.

i think it's the same all over the West, tbh.

[Anonymous No.732701]

I went to a state school and got my bachelors only. That was enough to get my foot in the door somewhere, and from there I was able to get to management levels surpassing my MBA peers. If you're good, you don't need the additional education.

[Anonymous No.732709]

>>732697

It is probably because that guy and I were already in the organization, identified the need and filled it ourselves.

[Anonymous No.732723]

>>732697
After I got my associates I was overwhelmed with trying to convert to a university and scrape up even more money, and beg and kiss ass to get "accepted". Universities are insane this way. They're so overpriced and you have to beg them to please take your money.

So, I got a call center job while trying to figure out the next phase of my life. I got promoted because apparently I was good at it, and the work I was promoted into doing involved heavy computer work.

I started dicking around with the software and wrote automated scripts/files to do a lot of the clicking and copying I had to do.

This got the attention of IT who took me under his wing.

From there just more on the job training.

***
Look. Every job, every single job, says they want a degree or X years experience.

Degrees cost money to get an education. Experience, *PAYS YOU* to get an education.

Every job you take, every single one, when the boss says "hey guys I need help with X, who can help me?", what you need to do is, raise your fucking hand.

Every time.

Now, some people will say that you're being stupid. That you're being paid the same amount of money you were before, to do more work. Those people are looking at it wrong.

They're paying off student loans, too.

What you're doing is getting paid a good wage or salary, to receive a free education, and all you have to do to retain this education is keep up on your day to day assignments.

Hell, sometimes the boss will even lighten your load.

Once you get 6-12 months in, look for a job asking for 1-2 years experience in that subject and apply.

This is the other crucial key. Quit early and quit often. I read an article in Forbes that said when assessing incomes over a ten year period, people who accepted new jobs every two years earned literally twice as much as people who were loyal and kept the same job.

Like I said, America is a wonderful land of opportunity.

[Anonymous No.732730]

>>732723
Smart man. Although I hate changing companies, so I stayed at the same one and did everything described.

[Anonymous No.732731]

>>730353
Let's say I work for... I don't know. A huge American manufacturer that has nothing to do with economics.
Is a MBA still useful (for something besides connections)?

[Anonymous No.732737]

>>732731
Probably not - they know you and have already sized you up. Having an MBA isn't going to change their opinion about you either way.

MBAs look good when you're applying to new places.

[Anonymous No.732743]

MBA degrees aren't worth it. There isn't much rigor in an MBA program, not even at a T15 program. You could learn the entire curriculum out of undergraduate school, but you'd lack the insight and wisdom from job experience.

It is an expensive networking degree that allows you job interviews at certain elite companies. After a few years of your first job your MBA doesn't really matter as your experience is what will get you that next job or promotion.

In my opinion it is better to get a technical degree and 'work' your way up the ladder. An MBA can be an accelerator, but a STEM technical degree (or MS, PhD) means more long term.

[Anonymous No.732866]

>>732723

>work your way up the ladder
>leave every two years

[Anonymous No.732880]

>>732866

In my experience, the range of promotion within your same company after two years is smaller than jumping ship.

[Anonymous No.732886]

>>732866
I worked for 3 years at IT part-time, asked for full time work for 35k, they denied me. I jumped ship to a help desk/IT for 40k, worked for 2 years, asked for a promotion or raise to 50k, they denied me, jumped ship to Dev-Ops for 70k last year.

Your company does not respect your value. Find someone who does.

[Anonymous No.732891]

I'm pursuing a BS in CompSci from a decent school, so a MS isn't really necessary. However, I'm going to get one in Software Engineering for: More specialized programming skills, connections made in grad school, less experience required for a job, and higher starting pay and pay ceiling.
I don't think it's necessary in all fields but certainly helps if you want to make a fortune.

[Anonymous No.733110]

>>732866
>>732880
>>732886

Yep! Maybe I should locate the article. But Forbes recently published an article and study demonstrating that, over a ten year timeline, people who quit their jobs every two years to go work for someone else, end up earning, on average, about twice as much as people who continue working for the same employer for ten years straight.

Your boss isn't going to promote you. If he does, he's only going to do it once. And HR won't allow more than about a 10-15% raise.

[Anonymous No.733115]

>>732886
>>732723
>working helpdesk support for 27k, thinking about jumping ship to a NOC for 45k+
>tfw Manager at current job tells me I'm getting a substantial bump + merger bump +yearly bump soon
>Mfw I just might stay for a bit longer

This is all because I was the first person to volunteer for projects. Whenever I had a spare second or a breather, I would message the GM asking for extra work/if he needed anything. I didn't even have to ask him for a raise, he put in the request himself.

[Anonymous No.733126]

>>733110
>>732886
>>732880
>>732866
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/

This article?

[Anonymous No.733238]

>>730382
Oh don't tell me that. I just started as a CFO for a small credit union, and am excited to be making $65k at 28.

After a few years' experience, though, I would have the resume power to pull CEO.

[Anonymous No.733261]

>>730322
Hi guys maybe someone can help me about MBA. I have a Bs in criminal justice and a certificate in paralegal studies (currently trying to work as a corporate paralegal but have been seriously thinking about working towards a MBA. I want to make 100k or more a year or a career that would allow me to do so. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[Anonymous No.733287]

>>733126

This isn't a study it is an extrapolation of the author's assumptions.

I still agree with what he is saying but this needs to be proved statistically.

[Anonymous No.733303]

>>730353
>>730356
>>730356
Do you work in PE anon?