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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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724219 No.724219 [Reply] [Original]

Alright /biz/, I'm in a bind, and I need some advice from anonymous crazy people on the internet to help me out.

I work for a CEO-owned small-time company that is...uh...shady. To say the least. Their practices compared to the rest of the industry are slimy at worst, unethical/legally-problematic at-best. They stick around because they sell a niche product to a captive audience, and they keep salaries low because they pay way below industry standard using obfuscating job-titles that don't actually cover the responsibilities employees undertake. People like me (in their 20's, fresh out of college) are doing work at this company for 25-30k that is equivalent to the work done by ten-year industry veterans, making 40-50k a year at other companies. Also the CEO is batshit crazy, and prone to firing people at the drop of a hat.

Now.

I started at this company about five months ago, at 25k, and I'm scheduled to go up to 27 in June. Except I've busted my ass, very quickly distinguished myself above most of my peers, put in extra work on my own time, spearheaded major overhauls -- essentially, all the shit you're supposed to do, to suck your employer's dick.

Now: The company is kind of undergoing a major destructive spiral right now. They just laid off half of an adjacent department (and the other half quit in protest) and now, in my department, my immediate supervisor (the second in command) just put in notice. AND another high-volume worker at my level did the same. And because this is very skilled work that takes at least a BA and several months of training before you're really any good at it -- and because this business lives or dies by its knife-edge high-volume workflow -- that puts me in an interesting position.

post too long; finishing in the next one

>> No.724223

>>724219

Essentially, myself and about two other people have now pretty much become the fallback point. If any one of us were to quit right now, the company's entire next quarter would take a sizeable, noticeable hit (because the managerial-design of this place is fucked, and everybody is their own goddamn information silo and handles 150+ clients who are very, very touchy).

So I'm planning to use this tiny little window of leverage to negotiate a raise. The thing I can't figure out is: how much? Being a shitkicker millennial, I've just flat-out never been in a position to negotiate a raise before. I feel like I've got the upper hand here, but I don't want to ask for too much and just get a flat "no".

So...thoughts?

>> No.724230

>>724223
>>724219

45k

line up another job and be prepared to leave with your clients.

>> No.724233

>>724230

> be prepared to leave with your clients

Can't. Just not possible, with the nature of the product. It's a select, carefully-cultivated niche. Without getting into specifics, it's actually pretty diabolically clever (sells a product back to people that made it, by exploiting the old/corrupt nature of academia).

>> No.724235

I've worked at some shit places. Some things that stood out for me:

> Captive audience, niche product, treats customers like shit
This is normal for a company like that. They don't need to optimize for customer satisfaction.

>[Hire inexperienced staff at low wages, ask them to do higher skilled jobs than they are capable of]
I've seen this before. I think it happens in companies that don't have high enough margins (or companies trying to milk too hard). Generally, the effect isn't clear until years of accumulated mistakes finally bite, or a competitor turns up.

> I worked really hard and did really well
This is the kind of environment where that can happen. Specifically, people who are good rise quickly, and then leave, leaving a hole for the next one to fill.

> I want to negotiate a raise because they can't lose me right now
If you are doing well they probably don't want to anyway. If you are as indispensable as you say, you probably have some knowledge of the financials - how much profit the company is making, how much people are paid... If you don't, you probably aren't.
Go and figure out what job you are doing right now - is it senior engineer? team leader? figure out how much that role pays and make a fair job spec.

Go to your boss and explain - I am no longer doing the job I was hired for - I am doing this job now. The typical wage for that role is X. What are you willing to offer me?

>> No.724252

>>724235
>This is the kind of environment where that can happen. Specifically, people who are good rise quickly, and then leave, leaving a hole for the next one to fill.

Pretty much this. My boss (who now runs the entire department) has only been there like 2-3 years. Like me, he was just a smart dude who worked his ass off and happened to be in the wrong place at the right time.

> Go and figure out what job you are doing right now - is it senior engineer? team leader? figure out how much that role pays and make a fair job spec.

The issue here isn't that I'm making less than what others doing the same amount of work at THIS company are (because EVERYONE here is paid shit). It's that I'm making less than the industry standard for this job at other companies. And If I ask for a salary equal to that (40-50k) I will straight-up get laughed out of the office.

>> No.724253

>>724233

you mean you work for a publisher? tear those fuckers down they don't deserve to live.

>> No.724254

>>724253

ding ding ding

>> No.724257

>>724252
If you are highly visibly good and underpaid, your boss will understand where you are coming from asking for a raise.
That's why I told you to tell him the big number, then ask him what he was willing to do.
Look... if I was in a situation like you are in, I'd be looking for another employer. But I can understand why you would want to stay there - if you play it right, it sounds like promotions are easy.
In this case, you present it like you are asking him to formalize an existing informal promotion.

>> No.724259

>>724257

Well another big thing to consider is that my boss is not quite the decision-maker, when it comes to stuff like that. Hell, he'd probably back me if I asked for a raise -- but it all leads to the doorstep of the crazy CEO.

>> No.724265

>>724252
>It's that I'm making less than the industry standard for this job at other companies. And If I ask for a salary equal to that (40-50k) I will straight-up get laughed out of the office.

So why aren't you trying to line up a job at a more respectable company that will pay you a standard salary? You seem like you've got the experience and know how, plus your degree. If he laughs you out of the office, then it's his loss.

If he calls your bluff, then you just move on to another job. If he folds, then you get a fair salary for the work you're doing.

>> No.724267

>>724233

just say what the fuck you do what are you afraid of?

>> No.724268

>>724265

Only one in the area. Going to another company would involve making a huge move, probably to another state, which I'm not exactly in the position to do right now.

>> No.724270

>>724259
The best crazy CEO I ever worked for had bipolar. It was amazing.
One time, he fired a guy, and then disapeared for 4 days. He came back with his clothes all ripped, driving a beaten up old sports car. He summoned us into the parking lot.
"Look what I bought with Jakes wages. It could be you next. Remember" Then he got in, attempted to speed off, but actually hit a parked car.
Then he went to hospital for a while...

>> No.724271

>>724270

Jesus fuck

>> No.724275

>>724270
Where was this? I need to work for this man.

>> No.724311

>>724223
Bullshit your way into the second in command position. If you have that guys cell number take him out for a beer and ask him what he made then tack on 10%

>> No.724336

Tell him you want a raise and shit or the company is going under, as best you can without provoking rage. Park your car in a public place, cook your own meals and get a gun.