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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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7154757 No.7154757 [Reply] [Original] [archived.moe]

Can the adults here have an honest conversation about taxes? What the hell are we gonna do?

>> No.7154781

>>7154757
use a smart contract to defer taxes on Crypto gains.

>> No.7154799

>>7154757
We are going to file them and pay them. The IRS is going to get bogged down with 500-page forms and they are going to have to simplify.

>> No.7154800

>>7154757
pay them or renounce your US citizenship and never come back, it's pretty simple lol

>> No.7154817

>>7154781
Explain

>> No.7154840

My country's gov doesn't even know wtf crypto is, LMAOing at ur life

>> No.7154843

>>7154799
Ok, so, you're going to pay taxes on every single trade you've ever made? I've been in this six months and have no clue the number of trades I've made or how I could trace them.

>> No.7154896

Literally just pay them when you cash out and forget all the FUD here. The rules aren't clear enough and there are WAY too many loopholes and inconsistencies that tax fags try to translate to crypto that make absokutely no sense. Honestly no one knows is still the wild west in terms of clear legislation on what the fuck to doz just stand by until they give more clear guidelines or you will get acammed by jews and/or blockchain tracking software shills

>> No.7154946

>>7154840
Same here in france, about 62% tax in total. Fuck this country

>> No.7154947

>>7154896
This was kinda my approach

>> No.7154966

>>7154757
dude it's not that hard...

>import taxes into bitcoin.tax
>pick your tax bracket
>pay what you owe

anyone saying crypto is too hard to keep track of hasn't even tried or doesn't want to pay taxes

>> No.7154974

You americucks are fucked. You probably forgot to cash out on Dec 31 didn't you? Now you owe taxes on whatever your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017 even though your portfolio crashed in 2018. You probably can't even pay your taxes owed if you cash out in full now, can you?

>> No.7155005

>>7154896
>The rules aren't clear enough and there are WAY too many loopholes and inconsistencies that tax fags try to translate to crypto that make absokutely no sense
There's actually zero ambiguity. To the IRS it's an asset, it is not a currency.
The only legitimate complaint is the paperwork, but that's not really unique to crypto.

>> No.7155043

>>7154974
I assume you're trolling, but what's funny is that this is actually how it works in netherland.

>> No.7155075

Cry a bit, then file my taxes, then cry a lot more.

>> No.7155084

>>7155043

nope this anon speaks the truth. capital losses max out at 3000 per year so it's possible that people can end up owing more than they can afford

>> No.7155095

>>7155043
I'm not trolling. This is how it works in burgerland too. The americucks get cucked again. Bankruptcy or jail, choose one.

>> No.7155099

>Not just having your investment professional send a summary sheet to your tax professional
Don't tell me you're so poor you have to do this shit yourself.

>> No.7155135

Complain more and welcome to my world. All my life I feel like I'm the fucking work horse that is dragged down by fucking poors living of my taxes. That's what tax is all about: the super rich keeping the poors happy by bleeding the middle class out via taxes. Taxes are the sux. And I'm new to crypto and didn't even make a dime but I'm not new owning a million (euro in that case).

>> No.7155145

>>7154843

>doesn't know what etherscan is.

>doesn't know that exchanges have trade history.

>playing dumb to avoid taxes

>> No.7155162

Am I the only one who plans on lying about how much my crypto is worth. I will pay some taxes to avoid suspicion but the IRS doesn't have the resources to check what you actually have on an exchange

>> No.7155163

I'm in a comfy long term hold so in a year's time, maybe more I'll cash out at my convenience and just pay the income tax on it

>> No.7155166
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7155166

>>7154843
Its complicated but basically yes, with every trade, it is possible to ascertain a profit or loss, in dollar terms. Not easy, but possible. I am in the same boat, I have missing trades. We'll have to think of something.

I have spoken with an accountant - (((a fucking good one))) if you know what I mean. He says that certain CPA groups are brainstorming on how to handle reporting crypto. Their strategy on best practices is due in the early part of 2018, and ultimately there will be lawsuits that provide the final interpretation of law. He wouldn't even take my case until that industry consensus is complete, the way the wind appears to be blowing, you are going to have to report those crypto-to-crypto trades and pay taxes on profits, which are offset by the losses.

It sucks but that's how it works. Hodl makes sense for this reason: your taxes will go down on crypto you've held for over a year.

>> No.7155208
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7155208

>>7154757
Does purchasing gold, silver or copper count as a reinvestment?

Couldn't I just switch to hodling gold?

>> No.7155221

>>7155162
With the intraday fluctuation, you may be able to get away with using the lowest quoted price of that day. But they may reexamine it with AI later down the road.

We're so fucked.

>> No.7155224

>>7155162
Actually the exchanges send that info to the IRS without even being asked for it. Remember when you sent them your ID? All your trades are on file with the tax man, my friend. I hope you've enjoyed your time in the land of the free, the rest of the world is laughing at you.

>> No.7155227

Spain here, it's aight.

>> No.7155240

>>7155208
You realize gains when you trade for literally ANYTHING.

>> No.7155261

>>7155208
>hodling gold
Enjoy your nogainz

>> No.7155313

>>7155240

So say it how it is. Is crypto worth it or not? /nocoiner/ here.

>> No.7155320

When will you burgers finally learn that the only reason you're even allowed to exist is so you can work all day, every day, with only two weeks vacation (if you're lucky) in order to pad the pockets of the 1% who literally do nothing but bang models and do drugs all day? Your existence is meaningless. Thanks for playing the crypto game though, you made the rest of us quite rich :)

>> No.7155334

>>7154757
Pay them dude. I’ve been mulling it over but they win. At end of Jan i was at 17k. So i owe about 4K. I just need to find out how to enter this on TurboTax

>> No.7155362

>>7154817
I would also like to know

>> No.7155372

>>7155313
Depends if you're american or if you're a citizen of a first world country.

>> No.7155393

>>7155095
it's kinda fucked how many americans actually don't know this. i wouldn't be surprised if some ppl kill themselves over it

>> No.7155394

>>7154843
Have you REALLY been trying for six months? Earnestly? No you haven't, you've been trying to think of excuses not to do it for six months. If you've really been trying and you haven't found the tools necessary yet to do it I'm sorry to say you won't be able to accomplish much of anything in life.

>> No.7155447
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7155447

I am thinking about going to go to Gibraltar, looks like a good place, it is easy to get a permanent visa and it is a tax heaven with almost no taxes.

The only thing i'll miss as a brazilian will be the 14yo cute traps (yes, it is legal to fuck 14yo here)

>> No.7155487

>>7155393
They were born slaves and they'll die slaves. It's both funny and sad that they allow themselves to live this way, there are dozens of countries with a higher standard of living and less of an income disparity between the rich and poor where the "american dream" is much more a reality. In America, the American Dream has been dead for decades. Slavery didn't end, it just shifted to the white middle class. Did you burgers really think you could just get rich this easily and cash out?

>> No.7155545

>>7155447
>fucking mentally ill 14 y.o. boys.
For what reason, faggot?

>> No.7155551

>>7155320
They're literally slaves, its insane how they even think about paying "taxes" to their slavemasters instead of liberating themselves with crypto. Out of this world really

>> No.7155559

>>7154974
What if you don't cash out?

This is actually something that makes me walk the line of death

>> No.7155565

>>7155447
no wonder why brazil is fucking a shithole

>> No.7155598

>>7154757

Did you trade a fuck of a lot? If you did you might be able to qualify as a day trader. And if so then you don't to deal with the individual trade profits, etc. It's mark to market - essentially what you cash out for. It's what I think I am going to try for. I have over a thousand trades. Regular income rate rather than capital gains, so that part sucks.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tax-strategies-for-day-traders-2015-02-25

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/06/07/how-to-become-eligible-for-trader-tax-status-benefits/#31a0fc9d3e35

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/trading/09/incorporate-active-trading.asp

https://thismatter.com/money/tax/securities-trading-business-taxation.htm

>> No.7155600

>>7155095
>>7155393
>Now you owe taxes on whatever your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017
This is straight up not true.
Now I understand what you're saying though, that people didn't cash out enough to cover capital gains when the portfolio was actually worth something.
Yeah it's kind of fucked, especially because they don't allow you to do wash trades just to realize losses, but when it works in their favor you're out of luck.
It's just something to keep track of when you trade, a 100% gain is only 60%. If you still the remainder invested you're leveraging the IRSs money.

You also owe quarterly taxes since unlike a job nobody is deducting taxes automatically. Do this wrong and you owe interest on the difference.

>> No.7155606

>>7155559
Cashing out or not doesn't matter and never mattered. It's all about did you realize capital gains in Fair market value measured in dollars. They say that phrase multiple times in the IRS guidance.

>> No.7155611

>>7154757
Basically if youre from the us a lot of anon gonna turn out to be this guy

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7u7wql/i_just_did_my_taxes_and_it_turns_out_i_lost/

>> No.7155614

>>7155447
Don't try that in Gib faggot.
They'll castrate you - with a jamon knife if you're lucky.

>> No.7155615
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7155615

>>7155261
It was never about the gains.

Guess I'm donating all my shit because MY GOVERNMENT IS FUCKING RETARDED!

FUCK YOUR LAWS!

WE NEEEEEEDDDDD MMOOOORRREEE FUUUCCCKKIINNNGGG LLLLLAAANNDDDDDD TOOOOOOOO COONNNQUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.7155639

>>7154757
I've been thinking about this hard. I have all of my taxes ready to go, aside from my trades.

No fucking clue what I'm going to do. To make matters worse, I mined ETH for all of 2017. No clue how I'm going to claim all of that. Forget the trades -- I traded so much throughout all of 2017, I have no fucking idea.

I've considered just claiming the ETH I bought with cash, and leaving the rest to the "idfk" category.

Also this is obviously just me role playing as someone. I don't actually hold any crypto (none of you do either, I imagine).

Any crypto I may have had was likely stolen by malware.

>> No.7155676

>>7155551
"y-y-y-essih mastah, i been learnin' real good bout these cryptio currentses. I been thinkin' maybe since i been spendin' so long on this you'd maybeh let me keep a nickel or two? OH I'M SORRY MASTAH! NO PLEASE STOP THE BEATIN'! NO PLEASE NOT MAH WIFE, I CAN'T WATCH YOU IMPREGNATE HER AGAIN MASTAH!"

>> No.7155681

>>7154757
How does it make sense that I'm forced to pay taxes on every single fork of Bitcoin whether I want it or not? Cash, Gold, Diamond, whatever the fuck. I guess I have to pay taxes on anything that hits any exchange ever?

>> No.7155687

>>7155600
yeah that's the thing. most ppl probably don't set aside their gains for taxes. they just put 100% into the next coin they want

>> No.7155692

>>7155393
>i wouldn't be surprised if some ppl kill themselves over it

Yeah probably
>be me
>bitcoin.tax import screwed up, says I owe way more than my initial calculations
>getting the money to pay the tax would create a cascading capitals gains tax bill
That was a pretty shitty feeling.

>> No.7155704

if i wrote a script to generate 10,000 page tax reports from csv files would /biz/ be interested in it?

>> No.7155707

>>7155600
How is what he said not true? You owe taxes on what your cryptfolio was worth at the end of 2017, correct?

>> No.7155772
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7155772

>>7155545
Because it takes you to the sexual nirvana.
>>7155559
Because i want to buy a good car and live like a king, as i deserve.
>>7155565
Because this country is ruled by thieves, niggers, commies, leftists and drug dealers.

>> No.7155777

>>7155704
Yes if you made it open source

>> No.7155783
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7155783

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1dP6VV3gpE

>> No.7155808

>>7155600
Wrong, and you should stop spreading this falsehood because I suspect even more people will end up killing themselves over it. You owe based on what your portfolio was worth at the end of 2017. I sure hope you burgers either cashed out or switched to superior chinese coins that didn't crash in January.

>> No.7155838

Did you cash out? Then you dont pay.

>> No.7155840

>>7155707
It's not necessarily the same. It depends on your trades. If you've been trading with your whole stack at the end of the year most of that value will be "realized". But if you've been holding some coins that went up or down in value but didn't trade you might have some unrealized gain or loss.

>> No.7155887

>>7154800
that's literally the plan, my net worth dipped below 2M so I can just gtfo this year

>>7154840
can you gay marry me? I need another passport

>>7154966
I have over 300 transactions so they want me to pay them money

da fuq

>>7154974
cashed out some at 13.2K, so I'm gucci

>>7155838
trading between coins is "cashing out" according to the IRS

>> No.7155889

>>7155838
Wrong. In the land of the free you pay on every trade, whether you cashed out or not. Check that portfolio value in December... I sure hope it's higher now for your sake.

>> No.7155931

>>7155889
I just hodl. Besides how it the IRS going to find every trade

>> No.7155946

>>7155838
No. If the FMV of the exchange exceeds the cost basis of the coins you owe capital gains. That's basically what the 2014 IRS guidance says over and over.

>> No.7155954

>>7155808
Dumb shill. Neck yourself.

>> No.7155982
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7155982

>>7155614
Could you tell us more about that?

>> No.7155991

>>7155931
Remember when you signed up for coinbase and they got your ID? Well congrats, you just signed up for Coinbase Concierge, a new platinum service where they'll forward all your funding and trade history straight to the IRS so they don't even need to ask you for it. Fail to report it? Well I sure hope you still have enough in your portfolio to buy a sturdy rope.

>> No.7156021

>>7155704
chuck it on steemit or something

>> No.7156031

>>7155808
lel commenting here is hardly worth the captcha effort.
The stupidity in these threads is astounding.

>> No.7156043

>>7155991
>self identifying to an exchange
>not expecting them to share your info with authorities
kek

>> No.7156044

>>7154757
do a bikini fundraiser

>> No.7156059
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7156059

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdPffpsPKI

>> No.7156110

>transfer to new wallet
i donated it to charity.

>> No.7156117

>>7154896
You have no defensible reason in court why you didn't pay capital gains for your trades where the FMV exceeds cost basis. The 2014 guidance says that's when you owe taxes over and over. It's pretty clear about that. It never once says it's only when you "cash out". The only thing it was ambiguous about is whether you can apply like-kind exchange. That's no longer ambiguous as of 2018. You can't. So when you cash out you're either going to have to commit tax fraud and lie about how you acquired the extra money or if you admit to the trades you will be charged backtaxes, interest, and big penalties. (Because again, you have no defensible excuse)

>> No.7156129
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7156129

>>7156059
DISARM YOU WITH A SMILE

WE'RE ALL FUCKED

>> No.7156134

>>7156110

>he doesn't understand how deductions work

>> No.7156173

>>7154800
The problem is: WHERE TO GO?
I am not even american and i have the same problem, they want to take almost everything and i have to prove that this money is legal. How can i prove that i bought bitcoin years ago when the exchange (MTGox) dissapeared?

>> No.7156202

>>7155954
What exactly am I shilling? The only thing I'm "shilling" for is for you americucks to abandon your life of indentured servitude and join us in the civilized world where this isn't an issue. There's a place nearby with taxes on capital gains only, with 50% of those gains being complete tax free. Gambling winnings are completely untaxed there too! Where is this amazing tax utopia, you ask? It's Canada, the country literally teabagging you from above. Countless other countries have even lower tax on crypto gains (some 0%) and enjoy a much higher standard of living too. Don't listen to me though, bow to your masters instead.

>> No.7156204

>>7154840
What country?

>> No.7156245

>>7154757
AMERIFAGS I'M ONLY GONNA TELL YOU THIS ONE MORE TIME SO LISTEN THE FUCK UP

WHAT YOU PEOPLE NEED TO DO IS ENROLL IN AN E-RESIDENCY PROGRAM WTIH ONE OF THE EAST-EUROPEAN NATIONS, START A BUSINESS IN THAT COUNTRY AND OPERATE ON THAT BUSINESS BEHALF, SINCE ITS HQ IS IN LITHUANIA FOR EXAMPLE YOU PAY YOUR TAXES TROUGH THAT COMPANY!!!!

NOT THAT HARD JEEZZZZ!

>> No.7156271

>>7156245
So your taxes go trough Lithuania, not USA. FUCK!!! DO IT !

Thank me later or something.

>> No.7156284
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7156284

>>7156173
I don't know where we're going.
But it's going to be great.

>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT0yoo9B2Bc

>> No.7156294

>>7156204
>>7156173
>>7156202
>>7156245

no dumbfuck here has mentioned puerto rico?

I am moving there in the fall to cash out, you just need a property for 6 months and you are TAX FREE .

most of /biz/ doesnt know this, doesnt surpise me

>> No.7156303

>>7154757
Pay them

>> No.7156305

And yes it works, I know an amerifag that does this!

>> No.7156329

>>7155887
Pay money for a service? Unheard of.

>> No.7156332

This brings up an interesting point. Crypto-investment has put a lot of income in the hands of people who have no fucking savvy on what to do about their income. They don't know what they can or cannot deduct, what they do or don't owe, or how to even file in some cases.

This is a pretty big can of worms. I mean let's say you're mining crypto: can you deduct your electric bill?

>> No.7156333

>>7156294
St. Kitts Nevis has the same, Roger Ver actually does that and he started a company working with the government there so people can pay for it with Bitcoin.

>> No.7156356

>>7156294

>In b4 "he fell for the puerto rico meme

look up act 20 and act 22 fucktards

>> No.7156385

>>7156303

Also if you pay your full taxes to the guvment ur literally a fucking cuck and deserve to be sent to the helicopters

>> No.7156396

>>7154757
Live in Australia. I'm not paying fucking tax on crypto lol

>> No.7156404

>>7156294
If you're an American citizen the tax man will still cometh. I sure hope you're ready to renounce your citizenship in order to do that, judging by your "6 month" plan it sounds like you think you can just temporarily relocate and avoid taxes that way. Wrong. American citizens who live overseas for DECADES still pay tax to their masters back home. Shame you're not Canadian though, they can legally relocate temporarily like you describe and only pay the taxes in their new country.

>> No.7156409

wait for the tax collector to violate the NAP, then nuke his ass

>> No.7156425

>>7155887
I Do over 300 transactions per day.

How fucked am I?

Also no matter how fucked I am it has to be worth it because I’m making like $500+ per day. Alr day made more since getting into crypto this month then I made all of last year construction wage cucking

>> No.7156447
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7156447

>be Straya
>only have to pay taxes when you sell

>> No.7156465
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7156465

>>7154757
MFW I don't live in the land of freedom so I don't have to worry about this till I cash out.

>> No.7156492

>>7156294
I asked my accountant about that. It doesn't seem as easy as you say it is. He said he had one client who's house was wiped out by a hurricane in Puerto Rico and now he's just traveling around avoiding setting foot in the US because it would screw up his tax plan. Are you saying he could have just bought the property and came back to the US?

>> No.7156497

>>7156396
Yeah no worries mate I'll keep towing the line for you fucking grubs, you're not borrowing any of my darts though cunt

>> No.7156504

It's amazing how little you burgers know about your own tax system. You've been sitting on your fat asses watching football and kardashians so long that you don't even know how your country operates. Pathetic. You all deserve to lose your gains to the tax man. Try again next time burgers, I'm sure there'll be another technological revolution like this in twenty or thirty years that you can ride to the moon. Until then, you're fucked.

>> No.7156565

I have no way to convert my coins to cash so I can't pay taxes on any crypto gains unless the IRS starts accepting cryptocurrency as payment. I would be happy to pay my taxes in Dogecoin if the IRS would let me.

>> No.7156574

>>7156425

Consider this
>>7155598

>> No.7156617

>>7156565
The IRS doesn't give a shit whether you can convert to cash or not. Pay up or go to jail, it's as simple as that.

>> No.7156654

>>7156294
the last time the market was good and /biz/ talked about puerto rico as a haven, it ended up getting raped by a hurricane then ignored in terms of assistance
not saying that weather manipulation is used as a geopolitical weapon
just saying, fun coincidence

>> No.7156707
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7156707

Any experienced leafs here? Are we fucked like the burgers or do we only pay taxes on capital gains when we cash out?

>> No.7156725

>>7156294
Also if I cashed out in the US in January and then established residency in Puerto Rico for 6 months later... say from June to December, is the capital gains for the amount I cashed out earlier in the year exempt as well or do only the one's after I establish residency qualify.

>> No.7156754

>>7155598
Thank you anon I had no idea something like this existed. Hopefully it's not impossible to get the IRS to recognize you as such.

>> No.7156760
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7156760

Serious now folks, where should we go? Singapore? United Arab Emirates? Belize (John McAfee said it is hell on earth), Maedonia, Hong Kong, Japan, South Korea, North Korea, Cuba, Panama...

Where should we go so we can all enjoy our money paying as little tax as possible?

>> No.7156805
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7156805

>>7156504
We've been fucking solving pizza gate and finding criminals?

>> No.7156864

lmao you ameritards really think you can just vacation in Puerto Rico, a US Territory, for 6 months and evade taxes? Your exchange has your ID and is legally required to send that info to the IRS, they already know you bought crypto and can see the transactions from your bank to coinbase. They know your coinbase wallet address and any other address you sent money to. If you cash out in Puerto Rico the IRS will know and be waiting at the airport with lube when you arrive back to the good ol' U S of A. If you think you can just disappear to any other country, cash out, then come back - SURPRISE! The moment you purchase anything that seems above your stated paygrade (like a house or nice car), the IRS will come knocking on your door to ask where that money came from. And guess what... it's up to YOU to prove where it came from. If you can't prove it with receipts and transaction documents then they assume it was gained illegally, and they seize your assets and prosecute you. Now chant with me... U-S-A U-S-A U-S-A...

>> No.7156892

>>7156707
only on capital gains. You're fine, you live in a civilized country.

>> No.7156936

>>7155224
Haha you actually confirmed your ID on an exchange? I'm unverified

>> No.7156945

THESE COINS ARE MOTHERFUCKING FREEDOM YOU FUCKING FUCKTARD KEKFACED BITCHES


DO YOU UNDERSTAND ME?!?!


FREEDOM

FREEDOM FROM TAXES

FROM BANKS

FROM THE BIG

FREEDOM TO BE RICH


CONVERT TO XMR FUCK THE IRS

FUCK YOU IRS COME GET ME

COME PROVE HOW I GOT THESE

ILL JUST CASH OUT OF THE ULTIMATE KEKBUX

I DONT NEED YOU

>> No.7156956
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7156956

>>7156805
Exactly.
What we got in exchange? The whole society wants to fuck us all.
We helped society so it could fuck us harder while ignoring our warnings. Fucking ungrateful cunts.
Let society rot.

>> No.7156962

>>7156892
Such a relief, thanks anon. Now I can laugh at the americans in peace.

>> No.7156980

>>7154757
same thing as always: sacrifice 1/3 of my paycheck and only use cash because fuck off

>>7154800
the U.S. still taxes you even if you renounce your citizenship

>> No.7157008

>>7156936
No, I'm not an americuck. Unverified = hardly any money anyway = you not mattering to anyone. You're poor and likely always will be.

>> No.7157046
File: 123 KB, 1024x593, f4qtl7dj9kty.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157046

MY 8TH GREAT GRANDFATHER THREW TEA INTO A FUCKING HARBOR OVER THIS TYPE OF SHIT!!!!

THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE!!!

>> No.7157086

man these tax just'd threads gonna be rampant Q1, a lot of us anons gonna get just'd hard.

>> No.7157102

>>7156497
Carn mate just give us one ciggy

>> No.7157148

>go to new country
>denounce US citizenship
>???
>profit

>> No.7157161
File: 150 KB, 2306x476, Screen Shot 2018-01-31 at 9.54.07 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157161

>>7156892
>>7156962
>Such a relief, thanks anon. Now I can laugh at the americans in peace.

Do you really just take people's word for it without doing any reasearch? Here, I'll look it up for you.

.... oh no no no NO HAHAAAAHAHAHAHAHA The laws are exactly the same as the US. They say if you spend ur crypto on any good or service it's taxed on FMV and if you trade cryptos their subject to BARTER TAXES. You don't get to laugh at us.

https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/payment/digital-currency.html

>> No.7157201

>>7157148
But.... What country? Which country?
I live in far away from the U.S and i want to revoke my BR citizenship as soon as i get to a better place, the problem is: Where to go?

>> No.7157261

>>7157148
there's an exit tax for faggots just like you

>> No.7157276

>>7157046
You're the shame of your entire lineage. Your great grandfather threw tea in a harbor and made history, you complain on a meme message board that your magic free money isn't yours to keep to yourself. You probably have 8 reddit tabs open to shit like r/cuck but you've never once considered rising up in the streets and changing shit the way your great grandfather did. You and every descendent since your great grandfather allowed your country to slip into indentured servitude, and now all you do is complain without action. You don't deserve any gains.

>> No.7157282

>>7157008
Not even true. If you're unverified on Binance you just can't withdraw more than 2 BTC a day.

>> No.7157311
File: 227 KB, 594x513, R4gp1hX.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157311

>>7157276
But Anon, I've never been to reddit.

>> No.7157347

>>7157161
Are you retarded? Barter tax doesn't mean you pay on every trade. You literally just pay on capital gains when you cash out in Canada. Christ you Americans are dumb.

>> No.7157366

>>7157311
That guy is just butthurt that some American fucked his girlfriend or something. Look at how many times he has posted in this thread.

>> No.7157403
File: 522 KB, 585x480, 1516649174029[1].png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157403

Okay so what if my income is under $20,000 a year do I still have to file taxes?

And just to be clear, you owe taxes, even without cashing out to fiat?
I remember smiling in the photo I took to verify my ID. I want to kill myself.

>> No.7157421
File: 12 KB, 208x250, Mr Wonderful.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157421

>Take all of your cryptocoins and trade it for Monero
>"Pop it out on the other side" from Monero on another exchange and re-trade it back into Bitcoin and cash out
>Pay your taxes by applying your tax rate to however much Monero/Bitcoin you cashed out in without dealing with spreadsheet/tax accountant bullshit
>In the event of an audit claim you mined all of your Monero

>> No.7157437

>>7157148
I'm a dual Malaysia/US citizen
Malaysia has no capital gains tax
It has lots of Muslims, but if I stayed in the US my capital gains tax would be going towards them anyway. Of course, there are other alternatives.

>>7157201
Singapore has no capital gains tax, I might get a job related to blockchain development there and move there

>> No.7157456

>>7157403
Why did you verify yourself???? Jesus Christ man there is no need to withdraw more than 2 BTC a day

>> No.7157471

>>7157282
Exactly this. And Binance is run by the Chinese. You think a Chinese exchange gives a fuck about the IRS?

你们是老外

>> No.7157478

>>7157366
>foreigner knows more about your own tax system than you.
> lul MusSt beEN fucKeD bY 'MuriCaN U-Sa US-A

>> No.7157502

>>7154757
you m,y good friend will pay for the jews faggy endeavors overseas because its more important than social security being there for old geezers to offset inflation that occurred after they retired and more important than maintaining roads and bridges and way way more important than your childrens education or retirement benefits for government employees

no your tax dollars will go towards ensuring some smarmy jews will feel like big shots telling the west what to do and who to fuck and when and if there will be lube or no lube the jews decree what will be...its more that they suffer from a inferiority complex much like nigs and this is the easiest way to get them to shut up. so many of them in the media if we try to gas them at this point we will literally never hear the end of it

>> No.7157531
File: 23 KB, 360x270, cappuccino.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157531

>>7157437
Thanks. I need to decide between Singapore and Gibraltar.
The other anon said Gibraltar is bad, but he didn't say why.

>> No.7157535

>>7157437
If you have family in Malaysia, and you trust them, spread your holdings between them to cash out. Check out whether you get hit for tax when they give you the cash. (I doubt they'll be liable for gift tax in malaysia)
Otherwise, have them buy a shop-house for you

>> No.7157552
File: 143 KB, 1160x396, Screenshot 2018-01-31 21.04.27.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157552

>>7157161
retard.

>> No.7157572

>>7157531
Gib is bad if, like the Brazilian poster, you want to sodomize 14 year old transvestites. Otherwise it's great.

>> No.7157631

>>7157347
Yes it DOES mean you pay tax on every trade, you DON'T only pay taxes when you cash out. It says you pay tax on FAIR MARKET VALUE of any goods or services purchased. That already disproves "Only when cashed out" theory right there. I also looked up your barter transaction rules. It says if you realize a gain in value you must report it in terms of Canadian Dollars. Nothing about "If you cashed out"

>> No.7157651

>>7157478
Nah you're just a butthurt little baby boy that is trying to make people sweat because you're so miserable in life. The way you post just makes you seem like a total loser.
find some happiness in life you sad sack of shit

>> No.7157671
File: 58 KB, 1280x720, Weyland Peter.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157671

>>7157572
All i want is to not to get raped by taxes.
I don't care if the legal age is 99yo as long as the tax is close to zero. What do you know about Gibraltar? Have you been there? Is it really easy to get a permit there?

>> No.7157678

>>7155991
>selling on normiebase
top kek

>> No.7157691

>>7157552
THAT IMAGE PROVES MY FUCKING POINT YOU ABSOLUTE RETARD.

If you use a digital currency to buy a digital movie it says you have to report the equivalent value of the movie in Canadian dollars as income.

>> No.7157705

>>7157471
Be unverified like a bad goy and you're good to go

>> No.7157736

>>7157691
It's the exact same concept as FMV, here in the US.

>> No.7157772

>>7157347
>>7157552
Nice but still keeping my shit organized. I think capital gains is 25% of 50% of your gains.

>>7157691
We are not buying movies or using goods/services, we are buying or selling like a commodity.

>> No.7157792

>>7157631
Good and Services do not equal taxing every trade lol. Are you seriously suggesting that trading TRON for VERGE falls under goods and services? Also are you 14 years old? "Realize a gain" = cashing out. That's not even just a Canadian thing, that's applicable everywhere. Is English your second language or something? Has the burger-only diet affected your reasoning?

>> No.7157804
File: 22 KB, 480x360, Kek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157804

>worried about paying taxes on all trades
>Most of us are under 10k... small fry nobodies

KYS tax cucks

>> No.7157805

>>7157736
That guy is just a faggot. He won't admit he's wrong. He has an inferiority complex to americans which is why he has been posting in this thread for an hour.

>> No.7157818

>>7157772
>We are not buying movies or using goods/services, we are buying or selling like a commodity.

It's the same thing. If BTC is a commodity and ETH is also a commodity. If you buy BTC for 1000 CAD and then trade it for 10000 CAD worth of ETH you realized a 9000 capital gain.

>> No.7157844

>>7157792
They apparently fall under COMMODITY. Are you saying if you trade a commodity for a commodity, realizing an increase in Fair market value, there's no capital gains on that transaction. I swear to you, you're wrong. Ask an accountant.

>> No.7157845

>>7157421
i like you goy

Fuck all these tax cucks
Absolute state of biz

They are all law abiding faggots, wouldn't share a beer with em

>> No.7157849
File: 19 KB, 366x488, loose-lips-sink-ships.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7157849

>>7154757
>What the hell are we gonna do?

Shut the fuck up.

>> No.7157880

>>7157691
You absolute fucking retard. That's to be included in the SELLER'S income. Put the burger down and read it again. Why the fuck would a purchaser report something he bought as income? Be honest, are you 14 years old? Because you clearly have no understanding of taxes at all.

>> No.7157901

>>7157849
this, fucking retards in here spelling it out and thinking they are doing a good thing

>> No.7157927

>>7154843
>Ok, so, you're going to pay taxes on every single trade you've ever made?
You don't need to. So why keep spreading this kike fud? Not even professional traders need to report every single damn trade. Do you really think the IRS is requesting full logs of the bot-traders on Wall Street making nanosecond holds while stealing fractional shekels from the market? No. They aren't.

They want your totals. Money in, money out. Shit ain't as hard as the jew fud being pushed on here every fucking hour on the hour keep insisting it is.

https://ttlc.intuit.com/questions/3706457-what-do-i-do-if-i-have-way-too-many-stock-transactions-with-robinhood-to-manually-record-in-my-taxes

>> No.7157933

>>7157844
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I literally WORK FOR CANADA REVENUE AGENCY. You pay capital gains when you REALIZE A GAIN ie. trade for fiat.

>> No.7157936

>>7157880
Haha this guy is a riot. I can imagine him seething with anger as he writes his comments. He has been here for almost 2 hours now monitoring this thread because he hates burgers that much. Hahahahahh

>> No.7157945

>>7157671
only visited. I have an EU (for now) passport so residency wouldn't be a problem. Never lookedd at the tax situation. Not much point for US citizens (or North Eritreans - the only other country to tax on worldwide income).

>> No.7157968

>>7154757
I'm so fucked man...
i have been doing over 50 transations of fiat/coins/fiat
Started 10 grand, profited 12 grand, added back into coins now only total profit of 5 grand.
I have a heavy feeling i will be taxed for that 12 grand and the loss sustained wont mitigate, thus i will be fucking taxed way under than what i started in november last year. I 50/50 want to kill myself and the other half want to set myself on fire and never touch crypto again. I have 1btc locked up on TEL which i hoped would 50% soon aint looking the case, i lost 3 Eth on a scam on ED yes i am to blame. My 45k peak is now 15k and i may get in the worst case scenario 10k tax. Meaning i leave 5k. Any ausfags want to help me out?

>> No.7157987

>>7154757
It honestly depends as to whether it's classified as a currency or an asset. Its existential definition is the most important part.

>> No.7157991

>>7157936
I'm mostly laughing. You ameritards really don't understand a fucking thing about anything. It's fun trolling, the whole world laughs at you

>> No.7158017

>>7157933
>I literally WORK FOR CANADA REVENUE AGENCY.
no one should be surprised, and no one should expect this guy to be the only one here
keep your manoeuvres to yourselves, they lurk to find holes to fill

>> No.7158120

>>7157991
Sure thing buddy. Don't worry the mean Americans won't hurt you. They're too fat to catch you anyways. Burgers are a complete joke and everyone knows it. Why are you wasting your time here educating them and popping blood vessels as you type?

>> No.7158157

>>7158017
Funny thing is I'm here as an investor, not to find Canadians avoiding taxes. Most Canadians read threads like this and think they have to report every trade, which only creates more work for me. It's fun knocking the American system though, you guys are completely fucked and don't realize the rest of the world has it much better lmao

>> No.7158166

>>7157880
>That's to be included in the SELLER'S income

Ok so let me get this straight, in Canada. If you bought bitcoins really really early, say for a few cents (or loonies or whatever the fuck you use). And then after it appreciates massively you use the Bitcoins to buy lambo's and houses there's no capital gains incurred in the FMV increase? It only has to be included on the "sellers taxes".

>> No.7158211

>>7158157
>you guys are completely fucked and don't realize the rest of the world has it much better lmao
Is that what you tell yourself to sleep at night leaf? lol. My tax situation is fine. I'm still trading.

>> No.7158229

Think about all the fomo normies who recently got into crypto. Do you think they're gonna pay their tazes? This year is going to be a shit show for the IRS.

>> No.7158256

>>7158157
Can you post CRA sources?

>> No.7158273

>>7158166
Jesus fucking christ where do I start? You pay taxes when you convert the bitcoin to CAD. You take the FMV of the bitcoin on the date you realize the gain (the cashout date) minus the amount you spent to buy the bitcoin in the first place - that's your capital gain, the amount you "gained" on that investment.

The "sellers taxes" thing is if you're spending crypto to purchase an asset in a crypto-to-crypto transaction. The seller of that asset (a movie, or stick of gum for example) has to pay income taxes on that transaction because he just made some income.

>> No.7158297

>>7158157
Assuming your not larping, mr CRA, what youre saying is that I only need to pay taxes for the year that I move to fiat and that I don't need to report all trades when I do?

>> No.7158369

>>7158297
Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. You pay on capital gains only ie. when you cash out. The American system is insane. Paying USD on every trade when they haven't actually converted that coin to USD yet? You all should be rioting in the streets

>> No.7158374

so what's the best way to get in and out of crypto without giving the tax man any information? localbitcoins and a glock?

>> No.7158381

>>7158273
know any other countries situation?

>> No.7158388

>>7158273
>buy 5 btc at $10000 from exchange
>make gains on other exchanges
>sell 50 btc at $10000 from original exchange

What happens with taxes here?

>> No.7158428

>>7158374
Don't verify ID ever. Have a lad send you some Monero to start with. Can pay some shithead you know that's in crypto or fibd soen tosser online.

>> No.7158432

>>7158369
>Paying USD on every trade when they haven't actually converted that coin to USD yet?

What if after you pay taxes your investment tanks or moons? What happens, you get your money back right? The CRA are reasonable right?

>> No.7158463

>>7158369
Do you know if the IRS requires quarterly estimated payments on crypto trading gains?
That would magnify the hassle 4-fold.

>> No.7158518

>>7158273
Then no canadian should EVER cash out. They can buy goods and services directly with coin and apparently not incur any taxes according to you. And their salary can be paid in crypto and they owe absolutely no tax as long as they never cash out and only pay for their goods and services with crypto. I think that sounds too good to be true and you are larping about being a tax agent.

>> No.7158521

>>7158388
You pay taxes on the capital gain (assuming you mean Canadian tax rules). You sold for $500000, but purchased for $50000. That means your capital gain was $450,000. In Canada you only pay capital gains tax on 50% of your gains, so you only pay taxes on $225,000 of that, which will probably amount to something like $75,000

>> No.7158543
File: 30 KB, 600x630, 1516126614699.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158543

I made the mistake of getting into this right at the end of December and I've been learning and researching on my own since.

Never had any fuss using Turbotax up to this point, and I thought I was done when the whole foreign assets section claimed I didn't need to report shit, but now I'm thinking that's not actually relevant and they want fucking EIGHTY DOLLARS to do the schedule D shit through them.

I had like only 200 dollars total in that shit by the 31st and I lost a portion of it getting my feet wet before moving it to other exchanges for alts.

Haven't actually made any money from this whatsoever but I have to go through all my trades to see if it actually gained value according to them WHAT THE FUDIJKDSIOGOS

>> No.7158545

You can't just 'go' somewhere. You need a proper visa, permanent resident status, etc., before you can even think about setting up a bank account. THEN, you still have to abide by FBAR regulations and declare foreign bank accounts of $10k+...you.can't.escape. There's no statute of limitations either.

>> No.7158586
File: 26 KB, 382x379, 1515037391762.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158586

I'm not paying 80 fucking dollars for that shit.
Guess I'll have to go down to the tax man directly.

>> No.7158592

>>7158432
What the fuck are you even asking? You only pay taxes after you cash out your investment, based on the amount you actually gained.

>> No.7158621

>>7156945
You can't just deposit serious money in a bank account without getting the IRS involved. They don't have to prove anything...YOU have to prove your cost basis, and if you can't, they'll assume it was $0 and you'll pay even MORE tax, on top of penalties, legal fees, and possible prison sentence.

>> No.7158651

>>7156980
Seriously?! HAHA you guys are FUCKED lmao

>> No.7158659
File: 166 KB, 500x532, its-afraid-11026993.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158659

>>7158545
I just found out that as a brazilian i can stop paying tax for the Brazilian gov if i stay longer than 12 months out of the country. So if i keep myself out of Brazil, i will not need to pay any taxes.
What the fuck? I love Brazil now!

>> No.7158661

>>7154840
Same my prime minister doesn't know how to write an email, imagine the iq of his cabinet.

>> No.7158688

>>7154757
only report trades from exchanges that have your ID. If bittrex only has your personal data, they cant do shit.

>> No.7158690
File: 33 KB, 400x300, never forget happy day.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158690

>>7158543
We tried our best.

>> No.7158692

>>7157403
Yes, you have to file taxes, but you won't pay anything unless your income+cap gains are greater than like $35k for the year. Yes, you owe tax on any profit even if you don't 'cash out'. That's what a capital gain is.

>> No.7158710

>>7158592
So if there's no tax on commodities until you cash out. Why doesn't every Canadian ask for their salary to be paid in Gold or Silver?

>> No.7158712

>>7158651
Consequence of a central global economy dominated by the US/Saudis/Israelis

>> No.7158730

>>7158518
In theory, yes, but there aren't a lot of places to spend those coins yet. As far as CRA is concerned you were already taxed on your CAD when you previously reported income taxes. Why would we tax you again unless you gained more income (through investments or otherwise)? You can spend those coins on goods and services, where GST, HST etc. will be calculated at checkout, added to the final bill and remitted to us by the seller. Just keep your receipts because the space is still new

>> No.7158764

>>7158710
...because no employer has gold or silver to pay with... What fucking planet are you from?

>> No.7158774

>>7158659
INB4: Americans wanting to gaymarry me so they can revoke the US citizenship and them leave Brazil for longer than 12 months so they don't have to pay taxes.

>> No.7158780

>>7157421
Yep, and you'll pay the taxes on a $0 cost basis for XMR since you can't prove otherwise...man, everyone here has a learning disability.

>> No.7158813

crypto is the new piracy
something that is so hard to enforce and so pervasive, moving faster than each respective bureaucracy can manage, that it overwhelms current structures and forces them to adapt rather than the inverse

>> No.7158854

>>7158764
But they should, because apparently you have a huge loophole to completely circumvent taxation. Everyone should convert their fiat into gold or silver and never pay taxes again.

>> No.7158862

>>7158521
I'm with >>7158518 on this, this sounds too good to be true. Do you have reading for this?

>>7158592
It's a question assuming you pay taxes on what you hold. How could taxes fairly be paid on an investment that could drop 40% in value or rise 500% in value tomorrow? Taking this example >>7158521 assuming you held and had to pay for what you are holding. You pay 75,000 CAD but then your portfolio drops back down 50%. You would've just paid a ridiculous amount in taxes.
I'm just skeptical and I'm trying to figure out a way that it would be even possible to tax on holdings/all trades. Obviously I'm new to taxes in general. Last year was the first time I filed on my own without an accountant.

>learning life skills through crypto

>> No.7158919
File: 99 KB, 572x377, 1515027421980.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158919

>>7154757
I am not a financial advisor and DYOGDR.

My reading has shown me that YOU DO NOT have to pay taxes on anything that was BTC to alt or alt to BTC. Only when you cash out to USD.

"But Section 1031 provides that property held for use in a trade or business or for investment doesnottrigger the capital gains tax if it’s exchanged for “like-kind” business or investment property. Any gain on a like-kind exchange isn’t subject to tax until the owner sells the replacement property. Moreover, the owner can defer the tax once again at that point by applying the replacement property to yet another “like-kind” exchange"

WHY? Because the like kind exemption was ONLY clarified by the IRS on December 17th 2017(via fucking Twitter...lol) to specifically be for Real estate Property. Therefore you cannot legally be held liable for the year of 2017 trades/swaps "taxes" as they were considered like kind exemptions almost all year long. 2018? Time to get a new game or just make 20% more now.

Again... every dollar you cashed out from BTC or LTC or whatever IS taxable. Pay it now. the taxes on yearly gains are much smaller than long term(capital gains tax).

If you traded enough and spend god knows how much time researching, trolling etc you can write off yoir expenses as a day trader on phones, internet, home office, computer, apps, market costs and loses, educational courses or books and subscriptions(literally writing off Palm Beach and Cliff High reports).

Go forth and conquer. Cause I'm not responding. Going to sleep. lol

>> No.7158979
File: 44 KB, 500x362, s94w3l.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7158979

It's moments like this that alcohol was created for.

I'm going to get so fucking wasted on champagne tonight.

>> No.7159003

>>7158862
>It's a question assuming you pay taxes on what you hold

That's what I'm saying - you don't pay taxes on what you hold. Hold that shit for years, doesn't matter, it's not a "currency" that Canada currently taxes. It's a commodity, and it's only taxed when gains are realized ie. when it's converted to fiat. You're missing the point when you ask "How could taxes fairly be paid on an investment that could drop 40% in value or rise 500% in value tomorrow?". You only pay tax when you've cashed out. Once you've cashed out, there is no more investment. It's done. The gains (or losses) have been realized. You pay taxes on that amount and we both go on our merry way.

>> No.7159037

>>7158862
There's NO WAY. I get my salary paid in gold/ silver / or crypto and only buy things with those commodities so I pay $0 income tax every year. Does that sound right to you? He's fucking larping.

>> No.7159132

>>7159037
Are you fucking retarded? Are you brand new to planet earth? Your income tax is deducted when you get paid just like everyone else. But no, there isn't an extra tax applied on crypto-to-crypto transactions. We'll have official documentation on this soon but you guys are fucking dumb seriously. Have you EVER paid taxes before? It's really not that complicated.

>> No.7159165

>>7159132
YOU SAID COMMODITIES ARE ONLY TAXED WHEN CASHED OUT.

>> No.7159280

>>7159037
According to this article UK only banned payment of sallary in bullion this summer
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/aug/07/payment-in-gold-bullion-banned-under-new-law-to-combat-tax-evasion

The article's a bit garbled - conflating payment in sovereigns with clearly dodgy forward repo agreements. Typical Grauniad financial illiteracy

>> No.7159301

>>7159165
What grade of Retard School did you graduate from? Did you even get past retardgarten? Do you understand the difference between commodities and income? Buyers and sellers? Shit and food? I honestly can't believe you still don't understand this. I stand by my original assessment that you're 14.

>> No.7159313

>>7159132
Need flags on /biz/. A lot of burgers will read your posts (not all 34 of them) and think you're talking IRS regs.

>> No.7159376 [DELETED] 
File: 229 KB, 900x1200, 1517436695596.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7159376

>>7159301

>35 posts by this ID

Jesus you annoying fuck just leave

>> No.7159413

>>7159301
You... fucking.... retard. You're not following my logic.

>>7158273
You established here that you only pay taxes when you convert the bitcoin to CAD.

>You pay taxes when you convert the bitcoin to CAD

OK. Great.

>>7158518
And that you can buy goods and services with bitcoin without being taxed.

>>7159132
>Do you understand the difference between commodities and income?

I'm saying if that's the case I'm going to have my income paid in bitcoins (or other commodities) then to circumvent paying taxes by never converting to CAD.

>> No.7159477

>>7159413
If you define income as "CAD". Then my income is technically 0 CAD. Therefore I have no taxes. You basically destroyed your fiat system if what you're saying is right.

>> No.7159481

Hi folks (burgers), can you comment on this?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2017/12/28/loophole-allows-tax-free-bitcoin-exchanges-into-2018/#5208417312fa

What the author is implying is that because the regulations that restricted 1031 to real estate were passed at the end of 2017, all trades done prior to that could potentially still fall under 1031 because the rule was not specified up until then.

>> No.7159484

Local bitcoins anyone?

>> No.7159679
File: 97 KB, 404x623, 1517366934564.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7159679

why the fuck are you faggots worrying?

The tax man wont come for another 5-10 years at least

You should either made it and renounced citizenship by then, or killed yourself

>> No.7159685

>>7159413
>I'm saying if that's the case I'm going to have my income paid in bitcoins (or other commodities) then to circumvent paying taxes by never converting to CAD
Your employer can't pay you in commodities without reporting a commodity exchange to the CRA, in which case you'd have to pay income tax on the FMV of the commodity at time of issuance ie. the date it was paid. You'd need to keep records and submit TO us your reported FMV of those commodities at each transaction (income) date. We'd then charge you income taxes based on that value. Good luck getting an employer to agree to the digitial currency route, as we'd just fuck HIM over rather than you when it comes time to report his FMV on payments towards your income.

>> No.7159795

If the IRS wants people to pay taxes on their crypto trades they should make it easy by accepting crypto as payment. The IRS should accept payment in all major cryptos like BTC, ETH, LTC etc. If the IRS accepted crypto it would be easy for traders to set aside an amount to pay the IRS whenever they make a profitable trade. This would also make it fair for people who have no way to convert their cryptocurrency to dollars.

>> No.7159856

>>7155887
Binance literally gives you the option to download all your transactions in Excel

>> No.7159903

>>7159795
lmao so they should accept payment in a format that routinely drops 50% overnight to make it convenient for you? "This would also make it fair" lol thinks the world is fair... Tax man about to getcha

>> No.7159941

>>7159856
Maybe just include a note with your tax return:
>9000 page transaction listing available on request

>> No.7160067
File: 378 KB, 608x1486, PR.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7160067

>>7156404
That's where you are wrong. Puerto Rico is a US possession, and it's residents are US Citizens. Residents of US Possessions do not pay federal taxes, they pay taxes directly to the Possession, in this case, Puerto Rico. An Act 20/Act 22 decree is a legally binding agreement between you and Puerto Rico explicitly granting you the rights to not pay taxes. Puerto Rico is literally the only place on planet earth you can go and avoid taxes on crypto. That said, you will have to pay up on gains realized prior to becoming a bona fide resident of Puerto Rico, but from there on out, you pay an effective capital gains tax of 0% on all future gains accrued.

Read this if you don't believe me: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p570.pdf

>> No.7160226

>>7160067
Imagine reading this and thinking you're safe in Puerto Rico as a US citizen. Imagine posting something you didn't actually read and understand, and then you move there and spend 6 months in bliss awaiting your return to america only to be greeted in Bumfuck, Michigan by Mr. Tax Man emptying the lube onto his cock. *phrpppppppttttt* is the last sound you hear as a free man. Tyrone owns you now.

>> No.7160247

>>7160067
thanks anon. some dumb fucks dont DYOR.


I AM REDEEMED

>> No.7160254

Someone setup a company to mediate/escrow donations, then we just donate each other our earnings back and forth and claim them as donations instead. Barely legal tax fraud, :~)

>> No.7160266

>>7154817
>>7155362
not american here, but there are laws on wash trading, like if you hold a stock for less than 28 days or idk, it counts as wash trading. anything above that however doesn't

now someone could make a token that isn't traded on any exchanges therefore has no marketvalue at all. a smart contract could force you into holding this 'worthless' token for at least 28 or whatever number of days, therefore you'd need to pay taxes on nothing?
otherwise it's possible and i'm sure people will come up with workarounds this year or the next.

the only reasonable way to tax crypto is

1. tax on cashing out
2. collect tax when buying goods/servies with cryptocurrencies... IN the cryptocurrency the transaction was made with.


until the authorities realize that, people will come up with actually legal loopholes im p sure

>> No.7160343

>>7160266
so you would get your worthless tokens for ETH, but there'd a mathematical, -but practically impossible- chance that in the end you get back nothing. then on dec31 u can literally say your holdings had a ponteial market value of $0

>> No.7160361

>>7160254
Among the more retarded suggestions in this thread. Do you really think you're smarter than gangsters in the 1930's who did this type of thing? Do you really think checks and balances haven't been set up since then to catch people with antiquated ideas like these?

>> No.7160400

>>7160067
Shit. I already cashed out this year before moving to Puerto Rico. Aaaaahh.

>> No.7160426

>>7160361

Crowd funding with bots to disperse donations of your earnings back to you, it could be done in a more modern way. I sound like an awful Breaking Bad episode but the idea is the same.

>> No.7160500

have isle of man or jersey trust, sell BTC on coinbase and withdraw funds to bank in haven(im with hsbc but they have a minimum 50k gbp), practically no taxes. simple. cant bring the money back into UK though without a hefty fee. but my money's safe in that bank and i can bring it with me to whatever country i move to when im settling down(probably switzerland)

>> No.7160583

>>7160426
I take back my previous comment, THIS is the most retarded suggestion in this thread. All you kiddies trying avoid taxes: you're fucked. We have many resources available to us to catch tax evaders. hell we catch a lot in Canada but the resources going towards catching americans is WAY bigger. Pay up or get fucked. If you think government doesn't understand crypto you're FUCKED in 2018 if you're living in a country where it's literally legal to listen to your phone

>> No.7160644

>>7156329
I am the one doing the service

all it is is a spreadsheet website, it's not like they have to do anything

they also import GDAX shit weird

>> No.7160695

>>7160583
but crypto is so new and there are still no laws made specifically to cover it. do you seriously think there are abolsutely no LEGAL loopholes where in practice you keep your crypto holdings, but legally you have nothing to pay taxes after on dec 31? (after your holdings in crypto that is)

>> No.7160725

>>7160226
I'm not just staying for six months, I'm really fucking moving there. Already visited and met with attorneys and CPAs. You'll be reading about a lot of people in crypto doing this soon. I know I still have to pay taxes on my previously realized and accrued gains, but I'll be able to trade as much as I want down there without giving the IRS a dime. Source: My attorney.

>> No.7160880

>>7160583

I'm not paying shit unless I realize my gains, not paying for any of the thousands of trades I make a year, if I cash out that's another story.

>> No.7160912
File: 739 KB, 300x169, Bread Boy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7160912

>>7160880
Have fun once they catch you.

>> No.7160930

>>7160067
>no major corporations are in Puerto Rico

opinion discarded

>> No.7160950
File: 349 KB, 846x1108, Screen Shot 2018-02-01 at 12.17.12 AM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7160950

>>7160067
>>7160247
WAIT WAIT WAIT. DON'T MOVE TO PUERTO RICO. I REPEAT DON'T MOVE TO PUERTO RICO. YOU'RE STILL FUCKED.

If you were a citizen of the United States for TEN YEARS preceding the tax year that your gain was realized, it's not treated as income originating within the territory. HOLY SHIT YOUR TAX PLAN IS RUINED.

>> No.7160980

>>7160912

Catch me for what, I've had Bitcoin since it's inception almost, my earnings aren't purchased from some site with verification. I trade with what I have on a foreign exchange that doesn't require verification too, yeah so good job catching me ya smhucks.

>> No.7161095
File: 357 KB, 602x1140, keep reading.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7161095

>>7160950
Keep reading.

>> No.7161100

>>7158621
Yeah. Good luck hiding the fact you have Monero. The first sniff they get and it's over.

>> No.7161130

>>7156294
>>7156356
>>7156385

You need to read the small print:
>>7160950

I hope you see this before you move to a shithole for no reason.

>> No.7161174

>>7161100
You are correct. The second they get a whiff that you're hiding anything from them it's over. Good luck cashing out any serious amount without getting audited. Pretty easy to tell who here has no money because they think they'll just be able to cash out without anyone batting an eye.

>> No.7161187

>>7156294
Thats not true at all, you need to be a boma fide resident, basically "cutting all ties" to the mainland with no intention of going back

>> No.7161209

>>7161130
You need to read one column over from what you posted.
>>7161187
Correct, you really have to move there, you can't just pretend you did on paper.

>> No.7161250
File: 74 KB, 300x256, confusednigga.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7161250

>>7161095
Honestly I don't understand that at all.

>> No.7161297

>>7159679
Fucking this. Everyone here thinks they don't report now and they'll be on their doorstep the next week.

If you haven't made it in crypto in the 3-4 years realistically it would take for them to catch up with you, you have no hope to begin with.

You have a time limit. Make it, then get the fuck out.

>> No.7161309

>>7161250
>>7161095

I think you'd still be fucked because most of the holding period would still be from the states.

>> No.7161331

>>7156245
>>7156271
Controlled foreign corporation -> gets taxed as resident where you the beneficial owner lives

>> No.7161351

>>7161250
You buy bitcoin at $100. You move to Puerto Rico and sever your ties with the US when bitcoin is $1100. You cash out while still in Puerto Rico when bitcoin is $2100. You have a $100 cost basis with $1000 of gains accrued prior to becoming a Puerto Rican resident, so you owe taxes on $1000 of gains. You accrued and realized the last $1000 of gains as a bona fide Puerto Rican resident. This portion is not subject to federal or Puerto Rican capital gains taxes.

Really PR is only a good move if you expect to have significant future gains or plan to continue to trade a lot. It's a risky move considering how volatile things are, but worth it in my situation.

>> No.7161352

Unless someone gets jailed for not paying crypto swaps, I'm not going to give a fuck.

They don't have the resources or expertise to handle this right now. AFAIK, they are underfunded and understaffed.

>> No.7161359

what about the UK?

>> No.7161423

>>7161352
http://fortune.com/2017/08/22/irs-tax-cheats-bitcoin-chainalysis/

>> No.7161432

>>7157437
But singapore taxes crypto trading, the tax authority has guidelines on their website

>> No.7161439

>>7161351
Yeah... that's still pretty shit. A FAR cry from being able to realize all the gains in Puerto Rico and pay nothing.

>> No.7161492

>>7161439
Like I said, it's going to work well for my situation.

>> No.7161539

>>7154946
Muhammed and his seven wives are expensive, the kids they shit out are quite expensive.
>>7155676
I'm dying!
>>7155887
If you´re a top we can get gay married but all investment style gains are taxed at a flat rate of 15%. But there is no deduction if you lose money on crypto so your choice I guess.

>> No.7161583

How do I know how much crypto tax I owe?

>> No.7162228

>>7161583
coin tracking or some other crypto tax thingie

>> No.7162549
File: 43 KB, 353x345, AaH8yGc.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7162549

>>7161352
Absolutely. the audit rate is aroud .7% per the latest data I've seen. Maybe as high as 1.5% for correspondence audits, which don't even involve manpower from the IRS.

>> No.7162597

>>7162549
That .7% isn't entirely random. If you've traded on an exchange that has your identity, it's low hanging fruit for the IRS.

>> No.7162759

>>7162597
I'm assuming the guy i responded to isn't verified. shit, i'd hope most people aren't verified if at all avoidable. As for me, I'm verified on coinbase/gdax only. My initial input was through there, but after that, it's all wallets and foreign exchanges.

>> No.7162813

>>7162759
Do you all trade through 7 proxies as well? I wouldn't be surprised if some of these exchanges were logging IP addresses.

>> No.7162958

is cashing out to precious medals directly without passing through fiat a viable strategy to avoid IRS kike talons?

>> No.7163035
File: 102 KB, 622x699, butmuttaxes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7163035

So this is why you burgers are always selling when you make 2% returns, panicking about your fucking cuck taxes .

You really think they are going track every single movement on some korean exchange, just a simple in vs out surely? Besides if your always buying high and selling low you can write most of it off as a loss no? kek

>> No.7163100
File: 102 KB, 960x1280, 63 - tiSCtgt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
7163100

>>7162813
usually just a vpn. What obligation do korean/chinese exchanges have to turn over every accounts' trade data? How much manpower does the IRS need to actually connect the dots between those accounts, especially if unverified, to the US citizen?

I know in theory it can be done. But what is the precedent, specifically regarding asian exchanges?

>> No.7163218

If you are close to age 57 at the moment and live in Australia you should start an SMSF and transfer/contribute (NOT SELL) your crypto into it or if you haven't bought yet then buy crypto only in the SMSF. Once you reach preservation age and go into pension phase anything sold is tax free regardless of when you bought it.

This was a quick jist of it. See your accountant and mention it to them they'll dumb it down for you if you aren't knowledgeableabout tax.

>> No.7163240

>>7163100
Don't know much about the international stuff, just wanted to point out that you can't really compare random audits to crypto audits because they know for a fact that there's unreported transactions being made.

>> No.7163295

only gay fags pay taxes

>> No.7163352

If any glow in the dark irs nigger tries to come for my crypto gains I will dump 31 rounds of steel core 5.56 through his chest.

>> No.7163495

>>7163218
Sorry meant around 57 or older

>> No.7163687

>>7160343
This what you do.

>Run a dark net market.
>Trade worthless shit for BTC
>spot price is nothing as far as you can tell.

BTC price might be more in korea or some market you're not on, but thats not your problem is it?

>> No.7163960

can i just pay capital gains?

>> No.7164324

>>7163960
You should be looking at minimising your tax in every legal way possible.

>> No.7164691

>>7154757
You are trading currencies, not shares, at least in my country you only pay taxes when you get your euros back, doesn't matter if you bought dollars and then traded those for some other coin, the same should apply for crypto I suppose.

>> No.7164749

>>7164324
yea isnt the least i can pay through just paying capital gains on it?

>> No.7164812

>>7154757
Can’t you just leave it in crypto and take out less than 20k a year?

>> No.7164926

>>7160226
imagine being a faggot tax man amongst a sea of people that dont respect your authority or jurisdiction

the reality of it is
you have to be an idiot and self identify to really get fucked by tax
the entire premise of this currency is to strip fucks like you from power

>> No.7165146

>>7156117
Hello IRS shill.
What law says you have to file a tax return?

SHOW ME THE LAW
H
O
W

M
E

T
H
E

L
A
W

You can not go to prison for tax FRUAD if you never file a tax return. The worst they can do is take out money from your paycheck. Not a problem for NEET millionaires. Even less people go to prison for tax EVASION, even less of problem for NEETS who've never had a job or filed a tax return. IF they decided to pursue a criminal case against the NEET he can rightfully claim he had no intent of breaking the law because he didn't know about it and the IRS knows that. Millions don't file a tax return every year.

>> No.7165393

>>7156864
Coinbase fought the IRS and reduced the amount of records they had to send. Something like 20k+ in transactions and only from like 2013-2015. That was to scare people.

So if you are american the IRS does not have your purchase history expect for a small amount of coinbase users from before 2017 and if you didn't sell and sent to a chinese exchange you will be okay. IRS shills are out in full force for tax season.

>> No.7165472

Wait so you have to pay taxes on 1) coin-to-coin when you buy the coin, 2) when you trade the coin for another and make a USD profit 3) when you cash out to Fiat? So like 68% taxes?? What's the point of this

>> No.7165592

>>7165393
they will see that you sent crypto to binance etc and they will want all of those taxes too at ridiculous rates unless you can prove otherwise. Hiding your money just gives them an excuse to take as much as they want

>> No.7165610

>>7165393
https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/29/coinbase-internal-revenue-service-taxation/
>On Wednesday, a federal judge in San Francisco ruled that Coinbase must supply the IRS with identifying information on users who had more than $20,000 in annual transactions on its platform between 2013 and 2015. After noticing that the number of tax returns claiming gains from virtual currency didn’t line up with the emerging popularity of digital currencies like bitcoin as an investment vehicle, the IRS asked Coinbase to hand over a broad swath of information on its users. Coinbase pushed back, and now the court has landed on a compromise that the company is calling a “partial victory.”

>“Coinbase itself admits that the Narrowed Summons requests information regarding 8.9 million Coinbase transactions and 14,355 Coinbase account holders. That only 800 to 900 taxpayers reported gains related to bitcoin in each of the relevant years and that more than 14,000 Coinbase users have either bought, sold, sent or received at least $20,000 worth of bitcoin in a given year suggests that many Coinbase users may not be reporting their bitcoin gains,” the court documents read.

Most tech news sites had a version of this story to try to scare people. But it's actually a huge win. Less than 1000 people reported crypto gains in 2014 but you better pay a percent of every shitcoin trade or we're gonna spend billions to put you in prison...

>> No.7165687

>>7164749
Depends on various things.

You can create tax losses by selling in dips and buying back straight away. Example buy for 100 sell for 50 buy back at 50 you now have a 50 loss to use later.

If you are near retirement age depending on country you can utilise your retirement savings. Australia let's you invest your superannuation yourself in selected things. Once you retire anything you sell is tax free if it's in your pension account. You can utilise this possibly through your parents or grandparents as well if they allow it and it won't effect their pensions.
Or it just let's you pay tax at 15% instead of whatever higher amount you would pay.

Australia has minimum income before tax is paid. It's 18k roughly but you can get away with close to 21k. Create a family trust and buy crypto in it. Say on tax return you distributed any capital gains to your kids who are over 18 and don't work, parents, grandparents, niece, nephew etc. Just make sure it won't effect their pensions or other welfare first as they need to declare it in tax return. Children under 18 can only be distributed $416.

There are a lot of things to legally minimise tax and you need to look into it yourself or with a tax professional. It may cost you a few hundred but could save you thousands

>> No.7165771

I live in New Zealand. Don't know if I should be paying taxes but I haven't so far.

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