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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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706994 No.706994 [Reply] [Original]

Isn't the math of getting wealthy unfair as fuck? I feel using mathematics for money, is tapping into inherent biases in the physics of mathematics...

favoring the rich etc...

If you have $5 million, you can do nothing for the rest of your life and make $300-$400K with interest.

But if you have $5,000, you will only make $30-$40 in interest.

Isn't this flawed? Why should having more money, give you more money?

Why does the one with $5 million get that much for free, when he is already rich as fuck?

Trying to think outside the box here.

>> No.706996

also compounding, etc...
am thinking we need a different form of money that has nothing to do with numbers and math.

>> No.706997

Because money is worth money. Shocking.

>> No.706998

>>706996
Oh, so troll. Got it.

>> No.707000

Well first of all your mathematics are shit. Assuming you meant that the interest where the same rate someone with 5 millions would only make 30k-40k a year.


And then, there isn't anything as "fair" you got money that cool you don't that's cool too. Trying to make things a bit more equal are what taxes are for.
If you were the guy with 5 millions someone cutting your profit for the gUK that got 5k would seem unfair to you

>> No.707002

It's hard to articulate exactly what I want to say. So, for example, when we think of a number like the number 5, we immediately subconsciously associate 3-Dimensional physical properties with it such as "it is 5 whole values above zero, it is greater than 4,3,2,1 and zero, it is less than the infinite span of numbers which include 6 and anything more" etc etc. and so I think that ultimately we're unintentionally seeing these "numbers" to represent a 3-Dimensional physical value for something, like 5 sticks or bananas or trees or people or cups or plates or what ever what ever what ever.

So, how is it that we haven't yet developed some new system of Mathematics which is based on a purely OBJECTIVE number system rather than the current SUBJECTIVE number system. I say that the current number system is subjective because, as I said above, it is fundamentally rooted in our ancestors' necessity to survive in this 3-Dimensional world with it's very specific laws of physics.

>> No.707003

2 planets in the same orbit
One planet is bigger and gets more sun.
>inherent bias

>> No.707004

>>707002
Lay off the drugs.

>> No.707005

>>706996
So, a system of taking what you want, when you want it, in exchange for something or nothing, as you deem most fair to you? The animal kingdom has been around for billions of years. Nature works! Let's try it.

>Hand over your woman and water, nigga.

>> No.707036

Owning the means of production makes money. Money buys you more means of production. Innovation and increasing productivity ends up making you more money for less money invested.

>tl;dr find a need and fill it or improve the process and you'll take the difference in your own pocket, do this well enough and in time you end up rich

>> No.707048

>>707002
I kind of get what you're trying to say, that we've shaped the world and our knowledge based on how we understand it....but this is some retarded shit that will get you nowhere in business if that's one of your goals in life.

As you get older, all the philosophy and "deep" questions you roll over and over in your mind are taken over by the realization that things aren't nearly as deep or as complex as we like to think we are.

Everythings a game, even making money, and you don't win the game by asking what the artists intentions were behind the animations on the game board. They're just there, deal with it.

>> No.707053

>>707003
Check your orbiting privilege terra forma scum!

>> No.707058

>>707053
>tera nova shill

>> No.708271

>>706994

You earn a straight percentage. Where shit really kicks in is when you reinvest the extra money.

Or you make $10k a year and can take a day off, or make $30k a year and can basically retire from life. Or continue working and invest that money as well.

Or when the money coming in far exceeds your daily expenses; ie the Olsen twins make $300k a day from all those direct-to-VHS videos they made back in the day, and then sat on the interest for 10 years.

Stop being a jelly fag and get to lendingclub.com You can get started with just $25.

There's no excuse to be a poorfag anymore.

>> No.708281

Nah I don't think the math is the problem, it's the lobbying making it easier for corporations to operate and have way more tax benefits than the individual. On that note larger corps and companies lobby as well to make it more difficult for new upstarts depending on the industry now that whole thing is unfair. But math will just be that math, what you have to look at are the cycles and systems working all around us and act accordingly.

>> No.708308

>>707002
Kurt godel proved objective number systems are impossible. Just because something is an abstraction doesn't mean it isn't useful.

>> No.708360

>>708271
lendingclub is a scam, no thanks

>> No.708372

>>706994
Because it's not about what's fair. Nothing's fair. Someone being born smart and another being born retarded isn't fair, but it would be idiotic to suggest that we should disregard people's skills because that's unfair, and the same is true with capital. Capital is useful, just like a skill, and both can be earned through intelligent work and innovation.
Stop thinking in terms of fairness, and start thinking in terms of what works.

>> No.708382

>>708360
>these poorfags will invest any excuse to wallow in their own filth.
Personal lending is the next frontier son.

>> No.708385

>>708382
But that doesn't change the fact that lendingclub is a scam.

Next, you're going to tell me that critics of Amway are just "poorfags will invest any excuse to wallow in their own filth".

>> No.708386

>>708385
Why do you feel its a scam though?

>> No.708397

There's no scam or underlying truth to this. You earn that much interest because the 5 milli you have sitting in the bank, is being loaned to other people in pursuits of various business ventures in hopes that they too will one day have 5 mill in the bank.

Are you talking about a universal income? Because if that were the case, the innovators and visionaries would then take that free time and create more money. Again.

I swear this thread pops up every day. I'll be damned if my grandchildren get their inheritance taken away because "muh equality. I'm trying to become elite, son. Right side of gamer gate, here we come!

>> No.708402

How about you think of money as an asset.

If instead of $5 million, I had $5 million worth of land.

I could rent that land or grow crops on it or something, making money "doing nothing".

If I have nothing, I can't make nothing.

>> No.708926

>>708271
Does this work?

>> No.708936
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708936

>>708386
Are you implying I should borrow money to use the stock market (full retard), or that I should use lendingclub's investment program? The idea of being repaid interest with someone else's security sounds good, but can you explain the system for me?

I'm 2 mojitos too deep to grasp the inner workings from the site's descriptions.

>> No.708943

>>706994
I mean it makes it patently obvious that people who say you have to "earn your keep" are full of shit since a silver spoon trust fund baby has done the equivalent of a homeless person for society (maybe less since the homeless might wash a windshield)

But , you should read "early retirement extreme" , its shitty and being poor sucks but the math doesnt lie. Someone who only makes 24k a year after taxes can retire early and live off the dividends by only spending half.

Same as someone who makes 200k and only lives on half. Its just a difference in degree.

>> No.708945

>>708936
Its not a scam. Its just crowd sourced micro loans and normal loans. You pay back people instead of a bank. Nothing to grasp.

>> No.708948

>>708943
This has always been tempting for me, but federal taxes, state taxes, medicare, mandatory health insurance, social security and rent are more than half my salary. I could sit still with the lights off, somehow not eat for 30 days, sell my car, walk 30 miles to work, and still go over on budgeting because the town needs $5 extra to cover roads or some shit.

>> No.708955 [DELETED] 
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708955

>>706994
And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

>> No.708976

>>706994
I think the reasoning is that capital creates jobs and blah blah.

But instead what we are seeing is that is does create a few jobs, but for the most part it ends up being hoarded.

Lets use your example of the 5m and making interest on that money,
compare it to a doctor that makes 300K a year,

I find it stupid the doctor has to pay a higher tax rate than the person who sits on 5m and collects 300K in interest.

Personally I say swap the two tax rates, make income tax low and capital gains tax high.

>> No.708984

>>706994

You're exceptionally stupid

>> No.709016

>>708976
That works in the case of being nice to people, but it's awful in the case of having enough money through taxes to actually fund infrastructure and the running of an entire nation.

Income is mandatory, so its taxes cover the majority. Capital Gains is optional, so it's taxed less to give incentive.

>> No.709049

>>708976
Capital does increase jobs, it's not like the rich are just sitting on it and hording it, it's being reinvested. And the capital gains tax is bullshit, because you already paid a tax on the money in the form of an income tax. What you want is a recipe for economic stagnation, redistributionist scum.

>> No.709053

>>708976
It's about risk anon. Income is pretty much guaranteed for the wage slave if they show up for work. Gains on capital..not so much guarantee. If anything you could lose money. Imagine going to work and ending up having to pay at the end of the day


Plus it's clear that markets value very large sums of money over a doctor's services since it's more rare and useful to society.

Yes the doctor is valuable, but how many entities can provide incentive to build a hospital and purchase and innovate startup and new equipment allowing him to work?

Finally that money is not doing nothing. It's allowed to be utilized by others for potentially useful purposes....that's why it earns a return. Retards with no understanding of money think large sums spontaneously generate returns

>> No.709073

>>706994
So if you don't have 5 million they keep working contributing to the 5k and reinvesting the interest/dividends. What is compounding. DEEEEEEERRRRRRRPPPPPPP.

>> No.709074

>>708271
Except unless you have a net worth of 70k or more technically you can't lend more than $2,500 on lending club.

>> No.709077

>>708936
Lending club facilitates peer to peer lending. Thet make money by skimming a bit off the top, the lenders make money when the borrowers pay the loans. You can lend as little at $25 per note and diversify over different quality of loans to reduce risk. Greater risk loans get better interest percentages and vice versa. Borrowers are financed by dozens or even hundreds of lenders who all share in the interest when payments are made. It's not rocket science.

>> No.709078

>>708976
Another idiot who thinks the economics is a zero sum game.

>> No.709079

>>706994
Are you having a laugh?

>> No.709084

>>708948
Do yourself a favor and read "eaely retirement extreme" not asking you to buy. Steal it if you want. Until you finish that book you're truly in the dark about how much consumerism you take part in.

The tough truth is you hyoerfocused your skillset to earn money so you can spend it solving all your other problems but most day to day shit such as car maintenance( as i agree its not feasible for most to live within biking distance to work) , plumbing , electric , home repairs etc all these things actually have low barriers to learning. Free books from the library , borrowed tools. 200 hours spent on each activity will pay for itself down the line (i mean i suppose at some hourly wage vs reading speed and comprehension ratio it doesnt make sense but for most people its worth it)

Youll find your capitalist conditioned mind literally arguing with the book "muh quality of life! Fuck that i like eating out" etc , but the math. Doesnt. Lie.

Latte effect bro , all that garbage you spend on could be down payments on rent and hold properties , shares in index funds , small business opportunities , cash only investments in other peoples businesses.

Im telling you. Read that shit. Its a wakeup call.

>> No.709086

>>709084
I would say it's find to spend money, but figure out how to spend more on what you like and less on what you don't. Additionally, always prioritize investing and saving.

>> No.709105

>>709086
Well i agree at some point you have to honestly just admit its an earning problem not a saving problem but 80% of what you buy wasnt some dream purchase , just convenience.

>> No.709119

thank god poor, stupid people like OP have no real political power

>> No.709139

This is true about everything in life. There are a handful of ginormous winners who continue winning and the rest are ants.

>> No.709162

>>706994
Maths is just axioms and deductions. Compounding is a real financial phenomenon that comes from the time value of money.

Get fucked so hard.

Don't remember to suck 1000 cocks for $1 each.

>> No.709579

>>706994
All wealth is created by labor. This is the opinion of all the classical economists: Adam Smith, David Ricardo, John Stuart Mill, Benjamin Fraklin, Thomas Malthus etc.

Karl Marx spells this out in Capital. What you're thinking about is called fetishism. It's not about material, it's about relationships. Rentiers have a relationship with workers - they expropriate surplus labor time from them. Meaning, for a few hours every day, workers are wage slaves, giving all the wealth they create to the capitalists, and also being fully directed in their work by the capitalists.

Certain chapters of Capital are difficult to read, notoriously the first one, but it has a lot of insights on how these things really work.

>> No.709586

>>706994
>Isn't the math of getting wealthy unfair as fuck?
Yes, just like the rest of life. Sorry that your parents are losers and have set you up for nothing but failure.

>> No.709619

>>706994
Did you seriously fucking compare $5 million dollars to $5000 dollars? Are you retarded?

>> No.709733

>>706996
>a different form of money that has nothing to do with numbers and math
>nothing to do with numbers and math

nice

>> No.710682

The OP is an out of the box thinker. The rest of /biz/ has no idea what to make of his concepts. Love it!

>> No.710721

>>709077
I've been reading about this. The default rate is whatever, but what happens when people default on these loans? The lenders get nothing back from what I've been reading, and the person who defaulted may get a bad credit score, but no collections? If they did send collections, shouldn't the lenders get the investment back?

>> No.710734

>>710682
2/10 trolling. We can see your ID tag and know you're OP, but you know that too.

I don't know how you caught so many replies with such low quality bait, but Red Lobster better pay you well for this haul.

>> No.710739

>>710682
Anyone dumb enough to not realize there are IDs on this board should be permabanned. We already have enough retards on here making this board next to useless.

>> No.710750

>>709049
>not hording it, it's being reinvested.

do you know what the interest rates are so low and have been for almost a decade? The government is trying to encourage people with money to invest it because they don't feel like doing it if the economy looks shitty. So to dumb it down for a sound bite repeating retard like you: the money is being hoarded right now

>> No.710753

>>710682
Embarrassing

>> No.710795

>>707003
what a shitty ass metaphor

>> No.710796
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710796

>>710682
>What are IDs

>> No.710827

>>706994
Isn't it only fair that people who have put in the hard work get rewarded for it?

Anyway - on the practical, non-moral side of things, the guy with more money gets more money because he's more useful. Who needs $5000 when you can get $5000000?