/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.6915698]

Who else is ABSOLUTELY FUCKED when it comes to their taxes?

I apparently owe a fuckton of money for 2017 for short-term paper gains for alt-coin trading. Gains that I don't even have now because my portfolio lost a lot of value this January.

[Anonymous No.6915730]

larping faggot

[Anonymous No.6915743]

holy fuck stop posting about taxes people its just a meme

[AYNON No.6915744]

>>6915698

at least in my country ... only realized gains get taxed ... also converting to other shitcoins ...

don't know for certain, but until i turn my shitcoins into fiat i won't consider doing squat other than keeping track of the transactions

which reminds me ... i should start doing that lol

[Anonymous No.6915770]

>>6915730
I'm not fucking larping stupid faggot. How is that not a 100% possible scenario?

[Anonymous No.6915776]

i've already paid around $50k in federal taxes this year, and the unwashed masses still ask for me. i've come to hate them.

[Anonymous No.6915784]

dumbass, you better pray that like kind exchanges work for 2017 trades

[Anonymous No.6915828]

>>6915698
REALIZED gains you absolutely underage faggot

[Anonymous No.6915854]

>>6915743
Enter the scenario into bitcoin.tax if you don't believe me. Make a bunch of trades with shitcoins that realize short term gains in "fair market value" until December in 2017 and then enter in losses in January 2018, you still owe the money for last year and you only get to deduct those losses for the future.

[Anonymous No.6915874]

>>6915828
In the US if you trade a shit coin for a shit coin it's identical as realizing the gain in USD. Also if you trade for any other good or service. I wish I was lying.

[Anonymous No.6915897]

>>6915874
That would make you literally more socialist than most of Europe.
I'm pretty sure there is a way to work around this otherwise the US middle class would be non existent.

[Anonymous No.6915907]

>>6915874
How the fuck is this enforceable?! Pro-tip: don’t declare shit

[Anonymous No.6915924]

>>6915874
i spent the entire fucking 2017 drilling this into you faggots, how are you just getting this now?

[Anonymous No.6915970]

>>6915698
I'm kinda fucked. I will definitely have to cash out before June to pay my taxes. Then the cashing out will cost me as well when I pay for this year in 2019... It never ends.
I will dry those tears if sadness with the tens of thousands of dollars I made.

[AYNON No.6915998]

>>6915907

sounds like good advice - sadly that binance ceo said he'd comply 100% with the countries authorities ... which in turn might mean anything or nuffin

[Anonymous No.6916043]

>>6915970
You do know you can file for a loss too right? You absolute fucking sperg go talk to an accountant. Fuck me the state of /biz these days.. or dyor

[Anonymous No.6916064]

>>6916043
Even if you file for a loss this year it doesn't cancel out the gain from previous years.

[Anonymous No.6916160]

>>6915998
You don't have to be verified on binance, dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.6916178]

I know for a fact that the majority of you in the US are in a similar situation. Short term gains throughout 2017 because crypto - crypto trading incurs capital gains. Then a majority of you probably also lost some gains this January but still have to pay for those gains from last year.

[Anonymous No.6916210]

>>6916160
>You don't have to be verified on binance, dumbfuck.

for now

[Anonymous No.6916254]

>land of the free

OH NO NO NO

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

do you pay federal taxes when you purchase an item in Wow for gold as well?

[Anonymous No.6916281]

>>6915698
go jump on a boat and sail out of the country, just abandon that shit immediately.

you either face a decade in prison for unpaid taxes, or you take your chances abroad without a visa/passport just living life as a vagabond

[Anonymous No.6916285]

>>6916254
Yes

[AYNON No.6916310]

>>6916160

purchase once crypto shitcoin e.g. ETH with your bank account > your ETH adress will be a open book > so will be the one on the exchange

[Anonymous No.6916314]

>>6916043
What the fuck are you taking about? I don't make losses. That's why I'm 'kinda' fucked. I need to cash something out to pay for the gains I made trading.

[Anonymous No.6916423]

>>6916254
They're working on that as well.
https://www.taxresolutioninstitute.com/taxing-world-of-warcraft-income-taxes-online-gaming-diablo-irs/

[Anonymous No.6916440]

>>6916043
this
OP kys if either this dumb or this larper

[Anonymous No.6916461]

>>6916314
>Gains that I don't even have now
kys

[Anonymous No.6916490]

>>6916440
You... fucking... retarded piece of shit. BRB. I'll enter a similar scenario into bitcoin.tax for you and screen shot it because you're too retarded and lazy to know what I'm saying.

[Anonymous No.6916577]

>>6916490
Even if in your particular case, you got cucked, It's your fault for not using one of the 1000s of ways to cash out under the radar. It's literally why crypto was invented you know

>b-but they make me pay anyway on trades
Ask them how can you pay if you haven't cashed out

[Anonymous No.6916980]

>>6915743
>taxes are a meme
Holy fuck, after 12 fucking years with you degenerate cunts, you still make me spit my coffee

[Anonymous No.6917025]

>>6916490
>>6915698
Alright here. Let's say you buy 10 BTC on January 1st and trade it back and forth with ETH throughout the year. NO "CASHING OUT" just trading between coins.

[Anonymous No.6917064]

>>6917025
This is what your tax bill looks like. Nothing cashed out.

[Anonymous No.6917130]

>>6917064
Then you cash out everything this year.

[Anonymous No.6917150]

>>6917130
Do you get anything off your $371,789 tax bill from last year? Nope, you just get to report a loss this year.

[Anonymous No.6917169]

>>6917150
Forgot pic.

[Anonymous No.6917180]

>>6916423

>wow
>income

Nice, when the game is as good as dead and gold prices are in the shitter they have decided to tax it.

Soon even posting on 4chan will be taxable as well, i guess. I cannot even imagine how high the taxes are going to be for /biz/ posts.

[Anonymous No.6917501]

>>6915784
It won't work.

[Anonymous No.6917609]

>>6916577
>It's your fault for not using one of the 1000s of ways to cash out under the radar.

Dumb faggot, you owe taxes even if you don't cash out. As I demonstrated here.

>>6917025
>>6917064

[Anonymous No.6917673]

>>6917064
>>6917025
what site?

[Anonymous No.6917713]

>>6917673
Bitcoin.tax

Cointracking.info will give you the same result.

I called several accountants and they all confirm that what I'm saying is accurate.

[Anonymous No.6917744]

>>6917713
Every time you make a trade you realize capital gains in the fair market value of the trade in USD.

[Anonymous No.6917812]

>>6917713
i can't shake the feeling that bitcoin.tax will feed your info to the IRS even if you don't use them to submit the return

[Anonymous No.6917840]

>>6917501
What will the IRS do though? Will they charge you a fee or interest (and how much) or will you just have to pay like normal

if it's just like normal or not too high a fee, it's worth trying.
after all they only explicitly disallowed it in 2018

[Anonymous No.6917933]

>>6915698

>He doesn't trade on anonymous chink exchanges
>He declares his alt trades accurately

[Anonymous No.6918039]

>>6917812
If you're afraid that bitcoin.tax will report your info to the IRS how are you not afraid that exchanges won't eventually report your trade history to the IRS?

[Anonymous No.6918051]

>>6917150
Right, also keep in mind you can only deduct $3500 net losses each year. You can roll over the excess (and use it to offset future gains too), but keep this in mind.

[Anonymous No.6918091]

>>6918039
each exchanges is only a subset of trades though, and only 1 of them has my id

[Anonymous No.6918108]

>>6918039
>>6917840
>>6917812
>>6917744

nobody has even mentioned puerto rico? If you own property there 6 months of the year you cash out TAX FREE. look up act 20 and 22

TAX FREE.
I am already moving later this year, its a no brainer if youre american

[Anonymous No.6918136]

>>6918108
>have to live in a third world country for 6 months

[Anonymous No.6918158]

>>6915698
in east europe nobody give shit feels good

[Anonymous No.6918203]

>>6918108
As I said multiple times, this is not about cashing out. This is about short-term gains you already incurred for last year for crypto-crypto trading. You can't go back in time to 2017 and move to puerto rico. Nothing I do in 2018 can undo the tax I owe for 2017.

[Anonymous No.6918204]

>>6918136

YOu dont have to live their brainlet, the bank needs a certificate of residency

If you are doing even halfway decent and not a complete moron, you can get a property for around 5-10k and rent it out ..... brainlet.

HOW IS /BIZ/ NOT DOING THIS

[Anonymous No.6918238]

>>6918203

Why TF do you think the irs has the manpower to track every trade? are you this fucking retarded listening to the fear mongering on reddit?

You only pay taxes if you cash out, dont get cucked by the every crypto trade fucking meme

>newfags

[Anonymous No.6918254]

>>6918204
sounds like it'll get you fucked somehow otherwise everyone would be doing this

[Anonymous No.6918279]

>>6918238
>Where did you get these coins
>uhhhh
enjoy having your assets frozen, and jail if you're unlucky

[Anonymous No.6918288]

>>6918238
They can subpoena exchanges and put everyone's names they find that didn't report trades on a list. Since I was dealing with a 7 figure sum last year I can't afford to assume they won't pay attention to me.

[Anonymous No.6918349]

>>6918288
same here

plus idiots on /biz/ don't understand that blockchain means your fucking shit is public

[Anonymous No.6918375]

>>6918288
Not if youre not on any kyc exchnages and trade using sketchy shit, so yea, youre fucked

>>6918279
Thats not how it works, it is literally legal under act 20 and 22. dyor faggot

>>6918254
most ppl are sheep which is why theyre cucked, look around you. this is a no brainer desu, ppl are just followers

[Anonymous No.6918414]

If i never convert my currency back into canadian dollars i don't need to pay taxes, right? How is the government going to know i have cryptocurrency lul?

[Anonymous No.6918479]

>>6918375
if this worked every single person with money would own a home in PR

[Anonymous No.6918545]

>>6918479

>peter schiff

>assuming you know every wealthy person and how they handle their money

>assuming i dont know several millionaires who have done the same

youre retarded

[Anonymous No.6918613]

>>6918288
and what are they gonna find on the exchanges? my bunked out info? you people are clueless.
if you make millions on crypto trading nothing is stopping you from never paying taxes on it outside of you cucking. Seriously its not like they can seize your assets when you could hide them indefinitely through crypto washing.

[Anonymous No.6918621]

wait, can you actually owe more money on taxes then you actually gained? is that a thing? lol, what the fuck

[Anonymous No.6918630]

CAN SOMEONE PLZ ANSWER

I get in the USA that shit coin to shit coin is taxable and is the same as going shitcoin to fiat to shitcoin, but wouldn't that 'gain' from selling the first coin be canceled out by the decalred loss of reinvesting your captial into the shitcoin you bought?

[Anonymous No.6918674]

Can we just address the sheer absurdity of taxing memecoin to memecoin trades? How the fuck can crypto survive if they start enforcing this shit.

If you make any money trading, you're gonna have to cash out your gains to cover the tax. Then you're back to square one. No more compound interest, no long term capital gains. Are you fuckers really going to comply with this shit?

[Anonymous No.6918698]

>>6918375

Won't work, you need to live there, have PR ID, have no connection to mainland US, etc. etc.

Buying property only won't work.

[Anonymous No.6918699]

>>6918621
Yeah it's a thing IF you make a gain in one year and lose some the next. If the loss is in the same year, it'll subtract out however.

[Anonymous No.6918722]

>>6918630
It only gets cancelled out in the same tax year.

[Anonymous No.6918781]

>>6918238
They don't have the resources to track every trade. If you go to cash out and you haven't reported anything in years the burden of proof is on you to show how you obtained those coins. If you don't have that they are going to tax you at the highest rate and fuck you in the ass on tax evasion. So go ahead believe this is just a meme and don't report anything but you better not even make a whimper when the taxman shoves his hand elbow deep up your ass with no lube checking to see if you have any buttcoins hidden up there.

[Anonymous No.6918847]

>>6915698
Two years ago i was a diehard Bernie Sanders supporter. I volunteered for him. I shill for him online. I did everything in my power in the hopes to try and help him get elected. Just by coming to /biz/ the past year, i’ve become pretty counter-semitic. I hide my power levels in front of normies/friends but holy fucking shit. /biz/ and /pol/ are never wrong.

[Anonymous No.6918851]

>>6916043
Is that you in the picture by chance?

[Anonymous No.6918886]

here's a tip: fiat capital gains right away, or every week or something.

even if your portfolio loses value at least you still have the USD to back it up. you're still losing it either way.

[Anonymous No.6918893]

>>6915698
I owe $9k but I'm not a retarded autist like you all and I paid it in estimated payments already

[Anonymous No.6918946]

>>6918674
they literally can't comply. it's all too complicated and unreasonable. a simple clean easy to understand tax of 15% on the way out is so obvious but nooooo. the irs doesn't want to make money thats clearly not the goal here or they would make it a lot easier. they just want to scare the shit out of you and be assholes, because they are.

i seriously doubt joe blow who barely understand crypto is going to keep the neccessary exhaustive records on every single tiny trade. millenial generation that barely understand money is going to do this? no. people barely understand whats going on so here;s what they're going to do: ignore it, tune out, its fucking complicated. fuck that noise.

what are they going to do anyways, damage my credit rating? fine me a bunch of money i have no intention of paying them and then jail me? is that how it works? is there enough room in all the jails for every crypto trader who cant be arsed to figure out this complicated tax shit storm? are there enough accountants in the world to fugure this shit out even if people did want to pay their convulted retard taxes? no.

the whole thing is a fucking shitstorm retard mess. and at this point its just easier to leave the country and never come back.

[Anonymous No.6918948]

>>6918847
What a cuck

[Anonymous No.6918965]

>>6916178
Warned people about this in December. Set aside what you owe. This is just a dip, in case of a real crash, you can very easily end up it the hole. The anons that claim otherwise are playing with sub 2k stacks and didn't bother to research. If you made any substantial gains, they aren't going to let it go and in they won't come for it this year, it will be 2 or 3 years from now with fines, fees and interest. That is how they do.

[Anonymous No.6918974]

>>6918893
On Form 8949? 1099-B? There's no "estimated payments" option. They make you enter the cost basis for everything.

[Anonymous No.6919019]

>>6915907
How would you explain the excess of BTC/ETH? If you bought 2 BTC to invest and cashed out 10 the IRS will ask questions

[Anonymous No.6919036]

>>6915698
>muh day trading taxes
I will get my FOID card (burger here - no concealed carry unfortunately I live in a suburb 50 mins outside Chiraq) and pay a one time tax for '''long''' holds. Anyone tries to squeeze me for anymore I will take out as many agents as I can before myself.

[Anonymous No.6919056]

>tfw merimutts will start to cash out en masse before April to pay taxes
>PINK WOJAK SPRING confirmed

[Anonymous No.6919067]

>>6918965
Even if I had set aside the amount I owe, I'd still be justed by paying the amount of taxes when my portfolio was value'd at the highest Because it peaked on December and dipped in January.

[Anonymous No.6919081]

>>6918722
Yeah I get that but then your trades throughout the year would cancel one another out every time, no? You only would not have a corresponding buy from your sell if you were selling to fiat, or if you sold at the end of one year and bought at the start of the next.

[Anonymous No.6919140]

lol every thread about taxes full of convulted explanations and debate and complicated questions.

its retarded, most people dont even know what the fuck is going on. this tax plan isnt going to work. i dont think it was designed to. its just the irs being assholes nothing more.

[Anonymous No.6919151]

>>6918414
Yes but what happens when you want to cash out?

[Anonymous No.6919154]

>taxed on every single trade

and the laaaaaand of the freeee

and the hoooome

of theeee

braaaaaaaaaaaave

[Anonymous No.6919249]

So what's stopping me from moving all my gainz to XMR & my ass to Belize?

[Anonymous No.6919250]

>>6919081
Let's say your portfolio is worth $100,000 in January, $1,000,000 everything all realized because of short term trading. You sell at the end of the year like you said. You have a $900,000 short term gain. You owe like $360,000. So now you have $640,000 to reinvest at the beginning of January. You re-buy. It falls a fuckton.

See how it doesn't take away any of the JUST? If it had fallen before January it would have cancelled out and you wouldn't have parted with that high of a tax.

[Anonymous No.6919252]

>>6918974
Estimated payments are due every quarter to avoid penalties

[Anonymous No.6919256]

>>6917933
if they audit you, they will know you traded on there

[Anonymous No.6919263]

>>6915698
Idiot, because they changed the rules for like kind for 2018 they created a legal precedent that 2017 alt to alt was like kind. Don't pay 2017 taxes on that. Hire a tax attorney if they come after you, it'll be cheaper.

[Anonymous No.6919282]

>>6918108
Can I do this as a Canadian?

[Anonymous No.6919314]

>>6919140
>Taxes laws are complicated, they can't possibly work. Ignore them.
The laws work the exact same as they always have, the confusion comes from the fact few people do it themselves, you get a 1099 as a courtesy. You decided to participate in a do-it-yourself bleeding edge investment, that means you do your own taxes, just like any other business.

[Anonymous No.6919339]

>>6919314
no

[Anonymous No.6919350]

>>6919252
..... If that's true then that's another whole level of JUST that I have to deal with because I knew nothing about estimated quarter payments with penalties.

[Anonymous No.6919383]

>>6919314
give me a 15% capital gains tax when i cash out and ill pay it gladly. if i need to get an accounting degree to even comprehend the tax situation im not going to bother. majority of us wont bother. the answer is no

[Anonymous No.6919436]

>>6918158
Until you cash out, at least. Once you do it depends on the local laws, which in many cases means income tax or similar shit applies.

[Anonymous No.6919506]

>>6919250
Well yeah, I mean why is this surprising? That's how taxes work. If you cash out to fiat at the end of the year you should know you have to pay taxes on it for that year. Thats how stocks work too. You made it sound a lot worse desu. You're not really being taxed on shitcoin to shitcoin you are being taxed because you cashed out and didn't rebuy until the next year.

[Anonymous No.6919562]

>>6919506
Ok, but I DIDN'T cash out, so I in fact am being taxed on my shit coin trades.

[Anonymous No.6919567]

>>6919350
You'll be fine the first year unless you made a shit ton of money last year, but by the 2nd year of big gains you'll likely owe penalties if you don't pay in time.

[Anonymous No.6919599]

>>6919562
Then how? Explain how you are if you didn't sell to fiat and you didn't sell and rebuy across the years? Why don't your subsequent buys cancel your sell you place 5 min earlier ?

[Anonymous No.6919630]

if you're working with less than $20,000 and using exchanges without any real personal info (social security #, etc), and haven't been withdrawing USD into a bank account, you really don't have to worry about taxes.

[Anonymous No.6919631]

>>6919383
Well then your choices are pay someone to do if for you, or ignore it and hope for the best. The ones that actually do it, all those boomer normies that are used to doing taxes, are going to fuck you over.
For what it is worth I agree that it is stupid, but I made too much to risk losing it to the irs. Look up the fines for *unwittingly* failing to file a FBAR, no thanks.

[Anonymous No.6919752]

>>6919631
if i make enough money for the irs to sniff around demanding complicated taxes i might hire an accountant to figure this shit out. but im not keepin records on every single tiny trade so i just hope the records shittrex keeps are good enough. if the tax demand is unreasomable (over 25%) or they tax me more then i've even gained.

then i wont cash out. i'll just fucking leave. i'd rather live well in a foreign smei-shithole then continue to be poor forever in america

[Anonymous No.6919820]

>>6919599
Do you understand that if you trade 1 million dollars of bitcoin for 1 million dollar of eth, that the IRS considers it IDENTICAL to selling for 1 million dollar USD? In fact that's how the 8949 form that bitcoin.tax generates reports it. That if you trade 1 million dollar of BTC for ETH you made a 1 million dollar sale. That's why in my example:

>>6917025
>>6917064

No USD was ever touched except for my first buy in yet I have a $938,861.43 short term gain that I have to pay $371,789.13 in taxes for ins USD. For trading between BTC and ETH only.

[Anonymous No.6919870]

>>6919820
are you really going to pay that? have you considered just leaving? thats more money then i ever expect to see in a liefetime of wage slaving.

just leaving the country is an option right?

[Anonymous No.6919878]

if i have about 600 dollars in total in crypto and have only lost money i dont have to worry about taxes right. last year i only bought btc/lit/eth on coinbase and this year i only traded some eth for ven.

[Anonymous No.6919911]

Im only up like 40k ill leave the taxes to the poor how its intended

[Anonymous No.6919934]

>>6916577

Cashing out under the radar as it were is for children who think a couple hundred dollars is something major.

Even if you gather up small amounts from thinks like bitcoin atm's and local bitcoins you can't just put it in your bank or make a large purchase with it. Even if you use it to offset your every day necessities to pad your earned income at some point in the future you get audited and have to explain how you never pay for things with the money from your job.

Stop encouraging people to be dumb.

[Anonymous No.6919988]

So why does the government get to tax something unregulated, decentralized, that they don't own?

You guys are stupid for falling for this. Stop giving them power retards

[Anonymous No.6920014]

>>6916160
Blockchain analysis gg

[Anonymous No.6920063]

>>6919820
That literally makes so sense. That makes crypto effectively valueless because any time it's transacted the value of the currency transacted would be declared as a net gain, not the actual profit.

That's like buying a 20 dollar item from a store, which the store paid 15 dollars for. Normally they make 5 dollars net income but if you buy with crypto they make 20 dollars net income?


Why couldn't you just do 1 mil BTC to 1 mil fiat to 1 mil ETH? Then it would be a gain followed by a loss and then not be taxable. None of this makes any sense, who the fuck is gonna pay that? I'm not, that's for sure.

[Anonymous No.6920144]

>>6920063
>Why couldn't you just do 1 mil BTC to 1 mil fiat to 1 mil ETH?

Yeah that's what I'm saying. That BTC > ETH is identical to BTC > USD > ETH. I'm saying that's taxing crypto to crypto trade in USD.

[Anonymous No.6920156]

is it that complicated to figure out taxes in UK too? USA system seems so complicated what the fuck?

[Anonymous No.6920230]

OP, how much was your portfolio worth on December 31st, and what is it worth now?

[Anonymous No.6920255]

Taxes should only be for cashing out. Crypto to crypto taxes are insane and anyone who pays them is an idiot and is part of the problem

In theory, if you do trading in 2017 and end up owing 500k in taxes, but on Jan 1st of 2018 your shit gets hacked and you lose it all, you will still owe that money even if you don't have it.

What, is the IRS gonna force someone to sell their house, empty their bank account, and force them to pay every penny they earn until the 500k is paid off? That's fucking insane. So someone can end up owing more than they can pay off because they played around with internet funny money? Bullshit, taxes should only matter when cashing out to fiat. End of story.

[Anonymous No.6920296]

>>6920144
Then how is that not a loss? I don't understand. If I buy a stock for 10k sell it for 10k then buy a different stock for 10k I don't have to pay taxes on it and am in fact at a net -10k. How is that different than how it works for crypto? You are basically saying your investments do not count as deductions and only your gains count.

[Anonymous No.6920465]

>>6919630
who the fuck does this encompass on here?

[Anonymous No.6920468]

>>6919036
Illinois has concealed carry permits

[Anonymous No.6920491]

>>6920296
Ok then it's identical to stocks. I misunderstood you because you.

[Anonymous No.6920542]

>>6920491
I misunderstood you because many people think going from BTC/ETH is not identical to BTC/USD/ETH and that it doesn't incur a capital gain in USD*

[Anonymous No.6920641]

>>6919988
>>6920255
This really.
Don't report anything.
If they see no one is reporting, they'll be forced to change it so they can't tax it.
It's fucking insane to tax on every crypto-to-crypto.

[Anonymous No.6920668]

>>6920465

>Buy Antminer
>Mine 20k of BTC
>Cashout with Amazon giftcards and Localbitcoins

This is how you do it bruh

[Anonymous No.6920673]

If anyone of you is using Coinbase, especially for larger sums, you're fools.. There are ways of buying crypto anonymously, and once you do that, you can simply trade on chink exchanges, since most exchanges don't require verification at all. Coinbase is literally the gateway for the IRS.

[Anonymous No.6920688]

>>6920255
>What, is the IRS gonna force someone to sell their house, empty their bank account, and force them to pay every penny they earn until the 500k is paid off?
Yes, this happens all the time and if that isn't enough they will garnish wages as part of a "payment plan". That is why those debt settlement radio commercials exist.
>Bullshit, taxes should only matter when cashing out to fiat.
Write a letter to your congressman.

[Anonymous No.6920714]

>>6920542
OP, mind emailing me? We're in similar situations

[e-mail]

[Anonymous No.6920795]

>get an accountant faggot
Yea, they tell you to abide by the law
>get an attorney
Believe it or not, finding an attorney willing to take the risk of being disbarred for trying to pull kikery for some neckbeards with meme coins, is hard to come by.
>dont be poor and have enough meme coin to move out of the country or hire a Saul Goodman character
thanks for the solid help. kys if you think this is reasonable. Somebody with a 6 figure portfolio is "poor" on this larping website. It literally boils down to whether you want to literally break the law and roll the dice that you dont get audited or pay ridiculous amounts of money on because the laws are early and grey.

[Anonymous No.6920797]

>>6915698
If you stay in crypto the whole time and use an exchange that's outside of the US that doesn't have any personally identifying information, there's no way the IRS could know right?

[Anonymous No.6920847]

>>6920714
Alright wait I'll make a proton mail.

[Anonymous No.6920937]

This is why i moved to a tax haven (Jersey).
Zero capital gains tax.
I'm British though.

If you are american you are completely fucked. Americans are still subject to domestic tax even when they take residence in another country. Only country in the world that does this.
Only way to avoid is to give up your american citizenship entirely. Plus you guys have some of the highest capital gains tax rates in the world. Land of the free hahaha.

[Anonymous No.6921105]

Any brits cashed out? The only place I can find talking about taxes is plebbit and they've been infiltrated by tax advisors saying crypto to crypto is taxable when HMRC have never said that. Seems like the cunts are just trying to get work.

[Anonymous No.6921130]

>>6920714
>>6920847
[e-mail]

If anyone else wants to contact me. (No IRS plz)

[Anonymous No.6921147]

>>6920156
No we have tax bands. As long as you can prove where the money comes from and is not laundered you just have a % to pay

[Anonymous No.6921414]

>>6915854
Nice try, no one is putting their info onto that data mining Honeypot

[Anonymous No.6921505]

>>6920797
so what are u going to do when you moved fiat from your bank account worth say 1000 then move in a total of 100k back into your account? its going to raise questions

[Anonymous No.6921514]

>>6921414
I said a fake scenario, but anyway you don't have to. I already showed you what happens.

>>6917025
>>6917064

[Anonymous No.6921551]

>>6921130
>[e-mail]
Do u use discord? I have some questions and it's also pretty discreet.. dog#8831 is my handle for it.

[Anonymous No.6921574]

>>6921514
Literally no one is reporting their crypto gains except boomers. Only report when you cash out.

[Anonymous No.6921594]

>>6919934
>hundreds of dollars
Not everyone is poor you know

[Anonymous No.6921714]

>>6921574
you're a fucking idiot. You report or you don't report at all.

if you report when you cash out and it's anything more than tendie money, they're going to ask where it came from. They will want transaction records or you're fucked

[Anonymous No.6921844]

>>6921105
>crypto to crypto is taxable when HMRC have never said that.
Technically it is. But capital gains tax in the UK is scalable so it's really 6 and half a dozen as far as HMRC is concerned, at the moment at least. Best thing you can do is talk to an accountant/ tax advisor. An IRL accountant. Not a reddit LARP accountant.
Get them to file your taxes for you if you can afford it.

[Anonymous No.6921904]

So fucking sick of the autistic retards thinking the IRS has the time or knowledge to spend all day tracing blockchain ledgers to make sure you paid your 3k in taxes when you sold your Link for Request. Fuck off you fucking retards and stop scaring well meaning kids here with your bullshit. Declare on what you cash out and you will be fine.

[Anonymous No.6922001]

Stop worrying about taxes.
If you bought 20 ETH, cash out 20 ETH.
If you made more than that by trading shitcoins, hold it and use it to buy shit in the future. The government doesn't need to know about it.

[Anonymous No.6922154]

>>6922001
again.. what happens when u withdraw a large sum of money into your bank account in the future? what explaination will u have when u stated that u put in 20 eth and ended up with 20 eth?

[Anonymous No.6922180]

muh tax fud

just pay capital gains on your fiat profit. ignore everyone trying to make taxes seem like the end of the world.

[Anonymous No.6922182]

>>6921505
> so what are u going to do when you moved fiat from your bank account worth say 1000 then move in a total of 100k back into your account? its going to raise questions

What if you never move to fiat? What if you just stay in crypto forever, and make purchases using crypto. How will they know if you don't tell them and they can't associate that crypto stash with your identity.

[Anonymous No.6922210]

a good goyim always pay his masters.

[Anonymous No.6922269]

>>6915698
>paying taxes

don't be a cuck. at worst if they find out they will charge you the taxes plus interest on late payments.

[Anonymous No.6922317]

>>6922269
>dont pay, at worst you owe literally millions in backtaxes, fees and lawyer costs
nobody is fucking asking about your 10k crypto portfolio faggot

[Anonymous No.6922339]

>>6916314
>pay taxes on unrealized gains
>cryptos drop to 0

have fun being the most retarded faggot in America. Never pay taxes until the money is in your bank account and secured. Would you pay taxes for 2018s income before you even worked a month? no, you might get fired, laidoff or any number of things.

[Anonymous No.6922356]

>>6922317
nobody cares about your LARPing millions in crypto and boring as fuck tax FUD either.

[Anonymous No.6922399]

>>6915924
Drilling into faggots....

Projecting?

[Anonymous No.6922664]

>>6922154
I mean use your residual cryptocurrency to buy shit.
You won't have to cash it out.
But if you want to, just claim that you mined it.

[Anonymous No.6922947]

>>6922356
the absolute state of denial you have to be in to either be such a no coiner or poor fag to think people on this board dont have 6 figure portfolios is pathetic.

[Anonymous No.6923040]

>>6918674
If you boil this down it won't work in a IoT economy...the paradox is they need the next "thing" to stop the debt spiral we are in.

In my opinion, It's simply that .gov doesnt want it's citizens to participate in a world economy. Your money needs to stay inside the walls....so the next best thing for them is to tax everything.

King Dollar and the rulers of this country don't give one iota about us. Don't forget that.

[Anonymous No.6923171]

>>6915698

OP have you considered the situation if you qualify as a day trader? That's a special qualification that lets you "wash" your investments once per year and pay short term gains rather than treating things like a typical investor going for capital gains. It's what I was considering. Way simpler. Don't know that it will help the tax year cutoff issue though, so might not work in your specific case.

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/164.asp
http://www.finra.org/investors/day-trading-margin-requirements-know-rules
https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspeculations/2017/06/07/how-to-become-eligible-for-trader-tax-status-benefits/#6d9bc51a3e35

[Anonymous No.6923201]

>>6915770
>How is that not a 100% possible scenario?
Because you're a filthy fucking kike, and filthy fucking kikes bear a curse on their forked tongues that causes them great physical pain if they ever tell the truth?

Why do you fucking jews insist on lying every goddamn hour of every goddamn day about how taxes work? Are you truly that desperate to drive down the price of crypto just so your kike elders can save a few thousand shekels buying Bitcoin?

The holocaust wasn't real, but it should have been,

[Anonymous No.6923276]

>>6922947
>millions
>6 figures
stay retarded

[Anonymous No.6923282]

>>6923201
GTKRWN

[Anonymous No.6923312]

>>6915698

Better link, see mark-to-market

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/tax-strategies-for-day-traders-2015-02-25

[Anonymous No.6923311]

>>6922154
Fuck Fiat. We don't need jewish money anymore.

[Anonymous No.6923321]

>>6922947
Anyone with a six-figure portfolio knows how basic goddamn accounting works, and that "expenses" (ie buying a new holding) are deducted from any gains, real or imaginary. "Selling" $1000 worth of a crypto to "buy" $1000 worth of a different crypto is not a fucking gain. $1000 + ($1000) = No tribute to Israel.

How the fuck do you think a company like Amazon can have $130BILLION in fucking sales each year but show on-paper that they haven't yet earned a single dime in profits? Because purchases, expenses, upgrades to facilities, salaries, ie every goddamn dollar they spend is deducted from dollars earned.

You'll get your turn in the ovens soon. Don't worry. No need to beg.

[Anonymous No.6923440]

>>6915698
>mfw I live in switzerland and pay 0 cap gains taxes on cryptos.

[Anonymous No.6923742]

>>6923201
>>6923321

STFU I already demonstrated how you can owe a large amount of short term capital gains for crypto to crypto trading. Then lose the gains in January and still owe the tax.

>>6917025
>>6917064

[Anonymous No.6923797]

>>6921105
The kike is a natural born liar. They are so proficient, so natural, so graceful at lying the jew can lie to your face *even while telling the truth.* It all comes down to the slightest technicalities.

When the lying jew walks among the goy in his attempt to spread panic and fear that the jew will then attempt to profit off of, he explains to the goy in simplistic terms intended to confuse them. "It's a tax event, goyim! You have to pay your taxes on every trade now!"

The jew smiles quietly, knowing that while he has "told the truth" (for you have always had to pay tribute to Israel; this has not changed, and nothing is new...) he has presented the truth while concealing a far bigger lie. You've always had to pay your tribute on profits, but only on profits. You have shown no profits when you immediately spend your shekels on a new investment. The tax code demands tribute on profit, but expenses are deducted from profits. Trading one investment for another, even if either investment has appreciated, may truly be an on paper gain in only the most technical sense... but it is simultaneously an on paper loss as money went back out again. Your tributes to Israel are calculated at the end of the fiscal period based on profits. Yet you have no gold in the Jew's bank to pay tribute with. You simply have holdings... which are not taxed.

The fact it is a "taxable trade" is true... while being utterly irrelevant to how taxes work. Every sale is taxable, but every buy is deductible as an expense. The jew did not tell a "technical" falsehood by omitting other facts... he simply meant to mislead the goy by selectively presenting facts the way that are most advantageous to his own pocketbook. Thus, the jew lies to you openly while telling the truth.

[Anonymous No.6923835]

>>6923742
You didn't demonstrate a goddamn thing with your meme-lines, oven-dodger. You do not pay taxes simply because the book value of your POG collection has increased.

[Anonymous No.6923843]

Lol I am a US citizen but I don't live there. I ain't doing none of this shit. Fuck u irs

[Anonymous No.6923872]

I've been making money off crypto since 2012. Never claimed taxes.

However, I'm worried about this year with all the IRS attention. I think I made 40k-60k in total this year. I work as a freelance developer so I do have a legit source of income. Might just continue to not pay and see how it goes. Will I be fucked?

[Anonymous No.6924001]

>>6915698
You can defer those capital gains taxes so you can balance against losses if you held for less than 6 months. Go see a tax attorney who is familiar with stocks and crypto. It'll be the best money you ever spent.

[Anonymous No.6924008]

>>6923797
I said multiple fucking times that if it's in the same year you can deduct your losses from your net gains but once the year is over, if it crashes in January (which it did), you're fucked.

>>6923835
You do if you realized the gain with a trade and the FMV is increased.

[Anonymous No.6924019]

>>6915770
Because your losses wash out your gains. Anyone who's ever done taxes knows that. That's how we know its a larp

[Anonymous No.6924051]

>>6916064
I think you can carry over losses for something like 3 years.

[Anonymous No.6924087]

All you have to do is not report anything.

[Anonymous No.6924138]

>>6924051
Read the statement again. It doesn't cancel out the gain from PREVIOUS years. I have a million dollar short term gain for 2017. The value of my portfolio went down in January of 2018 but I'm stuck paying for the high FMV trades right before the year turned.

[Anonymous No.6924306]

>>6921105
>>6921844

Maybe I'm an idiot but does it actually matter at all? Why couldn't you just leave the country for some shithole and stay there for a year before cashing out? You don't have to pay tax on 'foreign income' if you're not classed as a UK resident.

[Anonymous No.6924437]

im doing my taxes on bitcoin.tax and I made around 86k in profits. when I choose a different option instead of FIFO Ipay something like 16-17k instead of 20k. Pick that?

[Anonymous No.6924443]

>>6924138
Prove you have any significant money in crypto. You can't. Literally kill yourself tax FUDer.

[Anonymous No.6924604]

>>6921714
>if you report when you cash out and it's anything more than tendie money, they're going to ask where it came from. They will want transaction records or you're fucked
No they are not, this is total fud

[Anonymous No.6924731]

>>6924437
I owe 400k if I use FIFO, 100k if I use LIFO. I'm desperately searching for an accountant that let me use LIFO. Every single one I contacted so far says I have to use FIFO. One anon that emailed me said the same thing. This is fucking retarded because FIFO is literally less accurate. If you have 30 coins in cold storage and are actively trading with 10, if it's calculated with FIFO, then those coins that were just sitting in cold storage are considered to be "actively traded" because it uses up the cost basis and "date acquired" of those coins first, ruining their long term capital gains status. Also there's no law mandating that you must use FIFO, yet most accountants say you have to use it.

>>6924443
Whatever, I don't give a fuck whether you believe me or not. I literally already showed you that it's possible in tax software.

>>6917025
>>6917064

[Anonymous No.6924884]

>>6924731
I'm pretty sure my accountant will accept it thankfully. Also helps that you can select the like kind option to make it easier for your accountant. Much more simple that way.

[Anonymous No.6925046]

Forgive me if this is nonsense, but can Monero muddy up the paper trail a little? I intend to pay my taxes, but I have no interest in listing all my trades.

Is going from (Binance -> personal wallets -> obscure exchange -> convert all to Monero on new exchange -> move all to Monero wallet -> whatever you wanna do after that) possible? I'd rather it look like one or two large taxable events than a ton of small ones. Seems convoluted, probably simpler approaches.

[Anonymous No.6925198]

>>6925046
but cant you hide capital losses in with 2000 trades easier than you can hide 2000 trades?

[Anonymous No.6925271]

>>6925046
Have you used any KYC exchanges and made any trades at all? If you intend to pay the full amount of taxes anyway that's clearly a waste of time because listing all of your trades is less effort and riskier than consolidating and faking some of them. You just download the CSV's of the trades from any exchanges you used and import them into bitcoin.tax or cointracking.info.

[Anonymous No.6925363]

>>6925271
What about exchanges like liqui.io or yobit that don't have csv files? Can I use the API keys from them somehow to transfer them to coinbase.tax?

[Anonymous No.6925511]

>>6925271
I just dont see how among thousands and thousands of trades, some losers some winners in a zero sum game where 50% are losers, adding a couple extra losers on exchanges like Huobi, Yobit and even decentralized exchanges can raise flags. Even in the event that flags are raised, you are audited and negotiations begin... how do you get to the point of literally needing forensic technology to link IP addresses (multiple if your using more than one computer), explore various block chains all to DISPROVE these transactions?

[Anonymous No.6925520]

>>6925271
I'm fairly certain I didn't KYC on Binance, but many of my friends claimed they had to. I registered so very long ago that I'm unsure. All the other exchanges I know for a fact I didn't do any KYC (aside from obviously GDAX).

I guess what I wanted to do was have a couple taxable events recorded closer to the end of the year. If I were to pay quarterly, I'd have less working capital for trading as opposed to keeping all my capital gains, compounding the money, and then getting taxed at the end. The percentage taxed may likely end up being the same, but the amount of growth may be lower if I pay quarterly.

[Anonymous No.6925559]

when "proving" a transaction took place only involves an excel spreadsheet.

[Anonymous No.6925668]

Are Americans this retarded?
Losses are not taxable. You are not paying taxes for gains which don't exist anymore.

[Anonymous No.6925755]

>>6925668
The losses happened in January of the following year.
The losses happened in January of the following year.
The losses happened in January of the following year.

I can't believe how a huge portion of biz is.

[Anonymous No.6925774]

>>6925755
how retarded*

[saged No.6926583]

fud thread
saged and hidden