Taxes

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Taxes Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:23:48 2018 No.6753576 [Reply] [Original]

Daily tax FUD thread.

> Make $1 million in 2018.
> Tax season arrives. You have to pay 40%, which equals $400k.
> Before you're able to cash out the market crashes by 80%.
> You now have $200k in crypto and the market might recover. But whoops - the IRS wants their $400k right now. You're a poorfag irl, so you're forced to cash out the $200k and still owe them $200k. You just ruined your life. Good job.

Thanks to the tax regulations you can actually lose much more than you put in now. The good news is that you can make a lot of money in 2019 without having to pay taxes since you're in the red. The bad news is that you wasted an entire year to make money for the IRS, still owe them a lot and don't have anything left in crypto. Even if the market only crashes by 60% you're forced to cash out and give every single crypto gain to the IRS.

And what do we learn? Either avoid taxes, cash out enough to pay taxes before the year ends, or get fucked in the ass.
Prove me wrong, faggots.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:25:10 2018 No.6753633 how does that make any sense if he didnt cash out the 1 million? If he cashed out the 200k then he would owe like what, 40 grand at the most?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:26:33 2018 No.6753678 >>6753576 fuck you and your FUD you faggot. pay taxes on what you cash out, nothing more

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:26:57 2018 No.6753696 >>6753576 it doesn't work that way you absolute literal retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:28:23 2018 No.6753762 >>6753633 Yea, you only pay taxes on your sale. You don't pay taxes on gains before those gains become USD

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:28:29 2018 No.6753767

>>6753576
Every single tax thread on biz showcases how utterly retarded all of you are. You write it off as a loss you fucking morons. Furthermore, you should be consulting a tax Jew who will do the taxes for you. If you really want to step your game up, you will talk to a criminal tax Jew that will help you mask your earnings.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:31:35 2018 No.6753891

>>6753576
That is correct, but just do your taxes eoy and nothing to worry about. If you won the lottery it is a forgone conclusion you get to keep a little more than half, this is no different.
>>6753633
Where does this cash out meme come from. Crypto is property so bartering rules apply. Works the same way if you trade a stock for another stock. Tax is calculated with every trade, you pay tax on the gains.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:31:57 2018 No.6753905

We are not going to use your shitty fucking tax software that "solves the problem" you fucking shill. Get fucked.

And fuck anyone here who asks "Is there some amazing tax application I can use?" With an answer like "Why yes there is! There is this! Here is a link!"

Find a place to rot in in you shills. Pay when you cash out, that is all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:33:06 2018 No.6753953 >>6753576 t. I have never payed a tax in my whole fucking life

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:34:53 2018 No.6754021 >>6753891 >Crypto is property so bartering rules apply. Which has always been to pay taxes when you cash out. There are zero other situations in the past where people have been taxed for merely owning a or trading digital asset.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:38:21 2018 No.6754121 >>6754021 You keep saying that, and it doesn't make you any less wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:39:03 2018 No.6754154 discord gg/3fW7bzr

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:45:50 2018 No.6754426 Tfw passed all 4 parts of the CPA and still don't know what to do about crypto taxes

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:47:34 2018 No.6754501 >>6754121 Ok name one other time in the history of anything when merely owning or trading a digital good is taxed? You do realize that changing this would set a precedent for a lot of other situations as well.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 17:56:55 2018 No.6754863 >>6754501 You are saying it doesn't make sense or you don't like it, but that doesn't change anything. The law is from 2014, 30 seconds in google, fuck.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:08:07 2018 No.6755337

>>6754863
>You are saying it doesn't make sense or you don't like it, but that doesn't change anything.
>The law is from 2014, 30 seconds in google, fuck.

I am saying, its never been enforced and it cannot be enforced and in the history of digital assets has never once happened before. But I am also pointing out the perfectly salient point that if this were to ever change it would indeed set a huge precedent for potentially all digital assets. There is no sane situation where a precedent like that could ever be set.

These threads are FUD. Most likely by people who want to sell you their tax software. Its the only logical possible scenario. If a precedent is set for you to be taxed on simply owning XRP then can easily be extrapolated to forcing people to pay tax for having max level World Of Warcraft characters. Simply owning land in second life would be taxable. Simply playing EVE online would be cause for countless taxable events.

Its completely insane. This precedent will never be set.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:08:50 2018 No.6755369 File: 8 KB, 250x247, 1503926656929s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >paying taxes for imaginary coins on the internet oh no no no no hahahahahahaahah

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:14:16 2018 No.6755612

WHY the fuck do people come into these threads saying, "Just pay 40% of whatever you cash out, don't worry about the individual trades"

How the FUCK is that going to fly with the IRS? They want to know where that money came from. What the fuck are you supposed to say

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:16:35 2018 No.6755734 >>6755612 It's the same kind of people who think they are safe from a crash because they have a stop/loss. Let them burn.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:23:08 2018 No.6756032

>>6755612
>WHY the fuck do people come into these threads saying, "Just pay 40% of whatever you cash out, don't worry about the individual trades"
>How the FUCK is that going to fly with the IRS? They want to know where that money came from. What the fuck are you supposed to say

Because that is how it works and has always worked. And it will most likely never change. Because it would be impossible, completely backwards. It would be completely unfair. It would devastate not just crypto but almost every other market where you can own or have the rights to digital assets.

I think we need to start telling dumbasses like you to STFU. You have no arguments. You are probably just shilling anyway. The IRS doesn't give a shit about how much ETH you bought last year. They care when fiat lands in your bank account. At which point you pay your taxes and they move on.

All of these threads are garbage FUD. You cannot name one other example in the past where simply owning or trading a digital asset was cause to pay taxes. Its always been when you cash out. You cannot change this precedent or it would be absolutely fucking off the wall insane otherwise. At that point why not charge taxes for the number of twitter followers a person has? The value of an account goes up when you have more followers!

This is complete fucking FUD.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:26:25 2018 No.6756191

>>6755337
Fair enough point, but as I said, the precedent has already been set. I'm not risking my 30k gain on the irs changing their mind. They won't and it won't be a problem this year, it will be a problem a few tax seasons down the line when I try to establish cost basis and get fucked over with late fees.
As I said do what you like, but that IS the law.
https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:27:22 2018 No.6756227 >>6756032 You tax per trade retard. But then again I do take you cryptocucks for the stupid kind of people who sell their shit in massive blocks.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:27:43 2018 No.6756241 >>6753767 >criminal tax jew holy fuck, I'm tearing up

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:29:27 2018 No.6756314

>>6756032
I'm not fucking shilling you idiot.

I am a NEET living in his parent's attic who turned 3k into 600k this past year. I of course want to pay as little as possible. But I also don't want to get reemed.

You're saying I can just withdraw 600k to my bank account, after never having made more than 20k/yr in my life, and the IRS will not ask where it came from?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:31:42 2018 No.6756420

>>6755612
Yes crypto to crypto is taxed and yes you are taxed on cash out.

Things everyone seems ignore:

>Even if you have a huge run and market crashes you now have losses
>You cannot ever owe more than you make
>You can write off fees (withdrawls and trade fees)
>If you buy 1 ETH at 1000 and trade it for alt coin and ETH goes up or down 100 you either write that 100 as a gain/loss
>This is straight from a CPA i know who trades crypto

Stop worrying. Maybe the IRS will fuck you if you have an insane year in gains and the market crashes super hard like op, but its so unlikely. The IRS is going to understand that its NO LONGER WORTH 1 MILLION DOLLARS. IT IS NOW A LOSS OF 80%

So your Profit - loss will have that huge chunk of loss in there for calculations. You cant pay more. The only thing i could see happening is if you truly are long term holding more than a year so you pay taxes on that long term hold then long term hold crashes before you sell it. So you would have paid tax on long term hold, then next day crash happens, then you are stuck with a bag.

Example: You buy 1 BTC at 1k Jan 1 2018. BTC soars to 1 million USD/btc in 2018. 2019 comes around. You pay long term tax on that asset. You still hold all throughout 2019 and sell it in dec for 1 million. Now 2020 comes around. You dont have to pay tax on that 1 million sell, because it was long term hold and you already paid the tax on the long term. So you can cash out ~800k. Now its currently believed you'd pay a tax on the cash out but its still up for debate in this scenario, since you paid tax on the long term hold already. But generally expect to pay another tax because its a sell. But you will NEVER owe more than you make. Its not going to happen.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:32:48 2018 No.6756470 File: 72 KB, 150x177, 1rrCvJW.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6756314 >what is a SAR

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:35:04 2018 No.6756598

>>6756191
>Fair enough point, but as I said, the precedent has already been set

Uh not it hasn't. If this precedent was set then we would be in for a world of hurt. Otherwise its too easy to create crypto tax havens through other types of digital assets.

> As I said do what you like, but that IS the law.

There are tons of laws like this. Technically trading a world of warcraft character IS a taxable event and does follow under bartering laws. Technically any time you get paid ISK in EVE online you are earning money.

This precedent has never been set and it never will be. You pay when you cash out, anything else means all digital assets become CPG related.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:35:13 2018 No.6756608 >>6756314 nice larp CIA

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:36:35 2018 No.6756681

>>6753767
You realize gains every time you move to a different coin. If you realize 1mil in gains in 2018 then lose 600k in 2019, you don't get to retroactively reduce 2018's tax burden.

You guys are going to fuck yourselves up so bad. None of you are reporting things properly and none of you are filing foreign account FBAR with FinCEN or an 8938 on your taxes. Moving money from your bank account to foreign exchanges and then moving large sums of money back in creates all sorts of flags at the bank.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:37:32 2018 No.6756725 >>6756420 I've made literally thousands of trades. Without calculating them, is there anyway to know how much I'll owe on the whole thing? Is it completely variable? Can it range from 1% to 100%? Or will it generally fall around the 40% mark?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:38:11 2018 No.6756757 >>6756681 Shut the fuck up, please. Let these retarded fucks burn themselves, they don't deserve your help.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:38:24 2018 No.6756767 >>6756681 WHO THE FUCK is paying you to say these same lies on every thread?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:38:28 2018 No.6756769

>>6756314
>You're saying I can just withdraw 600k to my bank account, after never having made more than 20k/yr in my life, and the IRS will not ask where it came from?

You didn't read anything I said. Reread what I said. There is no precedent for CPG on merely owning trading digital assets in the history of digital assets.

And if that precedent was ever set, we would be paying taxes on almost everything online.

Pay when you cash out. That is the current and only precedent.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:38:40 2018 No.6756777 >>6753576 You are retarded and you don't understand capital gains tax

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:39:17 2018 No.6756818

>>6756420
The moral of the story is if you are trading your entire stack, you need to set aside the tax in fiat at the end of the year. You can't claim a loss in 2018 against gains made in 2017 and you can only carryover 3000$ in losses to following years.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:41:07 2018 No.6756906
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>>6756767
>>6756769
>>6756777
>>6756725
>>6756681

Nobody get fucking cucked by these faggots threads.

there is NO WAY the irs can track eery trade , especially on overseas and DEX exchanges.

Just pay taxes when you cash out to fiat, faggots.

/endthread

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:41:26 2018 No.6756921

>>6756725
Its almost impossible to tell. Thats why everyone is upset at this. The IRS claims they will be able to track and know what you owe but I doubt it.

If I were you I'd start recording every single trade, its fucking annoying and time consuming but if you do your due diligence the IRS hands will be softer trust me. Start downloading your trade and withdrawl/deposit histories and store them.

The actual tax rate is based on your tax bracket which obviously is your income from a regular job. Trading crypto does not add to that. So if you dont work a day in 2018 but make 1 million off crypto, you fall in the lowest tax bracket.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:41:33 2018 No.6756929 >>6753633 Yeah dont trade btc/<insertrandomcoin> then

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:42:21 2018 No.6756962 >what is long term capital gains >not realizing that losses offset gains kill yourself

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:43:06 2018 No.6757000

>>6756767
They want you to buy their tax software. Just wait for them to begin putting up links to their "Super awesome solutions to this amazing problem."

This is a big shill operation and I fucking call it out every damn time I see it.

Pay when you cash out. Digital assets have never worked any other way. Even when people made millions in second life the IRS only bothered them when they cashed out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:43:22 2018 No.6757010 >>6753762 >>6753633 wrong, enjoy being thrown in jail

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:44:47 2018 No.6757067 >>6756921 >Trading crypto does not add to that. Yes it does. Capital gains is added to your income to determine gross income which determines your bracket.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:45:19 2018 No.6757090

>>6756921
>>6756921
>The actual tax rate is based on your tax bracket which obviously is your income from a regular job. Trading crypto does not add to that. So if you dont work a day in 2018 but make 1 million off crypto, you fall in the lowest tax bracket.

source on this? I've heard the exact opposite.
I'd love for it to be true though because my regular income in 2017 was less than 10k USD.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:46:58 2018 No.6757149 >>6757067 >>6757090 My only source is CPA and shit the IRS has already released. Could be wrong, and it probably will be. But either way you arent going to find yourself in a hole you cant get out of.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:47:02 2018 No.6757154

>>6753905

What the fuck? I'm not trying to sell anything, I'm just clearing up how shitty this entire system is.
How can some people still not have gotten the memo on the 'every trade, even crypto/crypto, is a taxable event' thing? You don't pay taxes when you cash out. You pay taxes on the gains at the time you make a trade. Yes, you also pay taxes when you never even had the money in your bank account in the first place.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:47:22 2018 No.6757170 >>6755734 Why aren't you safe with a stop loss?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:48:50 2018 No.6757240 So how does this work? >cash out crypto >have to pay tax >cash out more to cover tax >have to pay tax on that too >cash out more to cover tax

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:49:01 2018 No.6757252

>>6756921
>but if you do your due diligence the IRS hands will be softer trust me.

Trust this guy everyone. He knows the IRS so well. He used to work for them I am sure.

You guys just give up. This is fucking stupid. There is no precedent that can ever be set for CPG on merely owning and trading digital assets. If you set that precedent then it becomes a complete fucking mess and just playing video games would mean you owe taxes. Doing ANYTHING would mean having to pay taxes HAHA

Its fucking impossible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:49:23 2018 No.6757272 >>6756818 This. the only thing which isn't clear is if FBAR/8938 is needed

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:49:28 2018 No.6757278 File: 8 KB, 226x223, pepelol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6757240 >you didnt think you could actually cash out right anon?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:49:29 2018 No.6757280

If no one else see what happened at the end of last year you are blind. Wallstreet teamed up with the government and they both made a killing. Wallstreet shorted the fuck out of bitcoin after pumping it to 20k. The government got to tax the fuck out of all the gains. And course the entire market crashes after the 1st of the year to lock in your suffering and make you pay double the loss, loss of your gains and loss in taxes. They will do it again this year only it will be 10x as big.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:50:15 2018 No.6757319

>>6757170
Do you think a stop loss automatically fills your sell order regardless of how the market is looking? In order to sell you need someone on the buy side to buy at your price, in a crash the chances are you won't find any and thus, you will burned.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:51:30 2018 No.6757382 Also, do they expect crypto to crypto trades from 2017 to be taxable, or just 2018

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:51:46 2018 No.6757398

>>6757170
Stop losses are dubious even in the stockmarket. For the sale to complete you need a buyer, if a crash big enough to trigger mass stoploss happens, the sell will either find the lowest available price (not where you set it) or will just not complete leaving you as the bag holder.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:51:49 2018 No.6757401 Anyone who trades on bitmex here? I heard from one guy that bitmex falls under spread betting in the UK, but I have no official sources. Spread betting is t ax free.Would love to hear if anyone else got some info on that.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:52:20 2018 No.6757429

>>6757154
>How can some people still not have gotten the memo on the 'every trade, even crypto/crypto, is a taxable event' thing?

Because its obviously bullshit and impossible to enforce. And its been the law for many years and technically has always been true under bartering tax law and it has never been enforced. Because its impossible to enforce.

Because you would be setting an insane precedent that all digital assets should be taxed the same way.

These threads are FUD.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:53:18 2018 No.6757479 >>6757154 Can't you claim ignorance?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:53:43 2018 No.6757503 by this same logic, we should be paying taxes every time runescape items go up

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:54:03 2018 No.6757517 >>6757319 I dont' use stop losses. There will still be buys

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:55:05 2018 No.6757571 >>6757503 people aren't making 7 or 8 figures on runescape items

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:55:51 2018 No.6757611 File: 23 KB, 460x345, 1453860475422.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I've been trading ETH for USD since 2016 and I've never reported any of it to uncle sam.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:55:58 2018 No.6757616

>>6757517
There might be buyers but the amount of sellers will trample the amount of buyers, the chances of you filling your very specific stop/loss is minimal, hence why stop/loss is not considered a fail safe against a crash, that's not how markets work.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:56:12 2018 No.6757630
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>>6757503
>Anon you need to pay taxes every time you go from osrs gold to items
>Just make sure to convert the current value of the osrs gold to the current USD value before every GE trade
>if you make a profit you need to pay the USD equivalent of 40% of the gains

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:56:27 2018 No.6757642 So what happens if someone >buys amount of a shitcoin for 1000 usd >it moons and now they have 1 million usd of it >transfer it for btc to cash out >suddenly btc flash crashes to $1 Do they owe taxes on a million bucks that they don't have?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:56:37 2018 No.6757652 >>6757503 If millions of people were making 20k+ on runescape there would be a memo.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:57:05 2018 No.6757684 >>6757642 capital gains on shitcoin -> btc capital losses on btc -> usd

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:58:04 2018 No.6757744 >>6757382 Isn't the capital loss limit 3k usd?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:58:07 2018 No.6757750 File: 276 KB, 614x745, 1498268016044.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this is actually a nice thing, if a worthless shitcoin stays worthless i can sell it for capital losses

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:58:07 2018 No.6757751 >>6757642 No, net gains is gains minus losses. It gets complicated if the gains and losses happen in different tax years.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:58:18 2018 No.6757764

>>6757503
If they force us to pay CPG on crypto for coin to coin trades then Runescape items or things like runescape items would be a tax haven. Even if said items went up in value greatly that year.

This is why I keep pointing out that taxing people for merely owning digital assets would set a completely new precedent that would be insane on so many levels. That's why all of this is bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:59:15 2018 No.6757818 >>6757744 The capital loss carryover limit is 3000$. it doesn't apply to net gains.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 18:59:45 2018 No.6757845 >>6757571 They are in Second Life. Actually gold selling in wow is a billion dollar industry. And people have made a lot in Runescape too. This argument is bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:00:42 2018 No.6757901 >>6753576 How retarded can people get? You only pay taxes on gains when you cash out into fiat. If you end up losing money, you write off the loss.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:01:36 2018 No.6757950 >>6757901 enjoy fines and jail retard >where'd you get the coins >uhhh >gets assets frozen

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:03:19 2018 No.6758053 File: 319 KB, 493x569, Screen Shot 2018-01-19 at 17.40.59.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6757950 >muh jail >muh fines Get cucked faggot . you are a meme. Pay when you cash out. that is all cock sucker

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:03:44 2018 No.6758081 Can someone tell me how much I'd have to pay a jewish CPA who knows crypto to take care of this shit for me? I can give him my trade logs downloaded from the exchanges. I just can't be fucked with all of this. Too much of a brainlet

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:04:15 2018 No.6758110

>>6757950
They wont ask where it came from because you paid your taxes when you cashed out.

Do you understand, how fucking stupid this entire "debate" is? Do you? If I sold a bunch of Gil from FFXIV and made 200k USD last year and I pay my taxes this year on those earnings.

The IRS isn't going to fucking demand I give them my FFXIV trading history.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:05:55 2018 No.6758183 >>6758110 >They wont ask where it came from because you paid your taxes when you cashed out. wrong

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:07:50 2018 No.6758284 >>6758183 I mean, I will tell them I got it from selling Gil in FFXIV. What the fuck else will come up? Are they going to get my account banned? ROFL Fuck you fucking morons. Welcome to the argument.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:07:55 2018 No.6758287 Why do Americans pay 40% that's like what socialist Europe pays.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:08:00 2018 No.6758290 >>6758110 There is no debate, there are facts and there is you: LALALALALA Runescape, FFX pay when Get fucked, no one cares what you do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:09:37 2018 No.6758378 >>6758284 do you have any idea how fucking trivial it will be for them to see you traded for it enjoy the tax evasion charges

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:11:08 2018 No.6758462 >>6753576 IF YOU DIDN'T CASH OUT YOU DON'T OWE TAXES. YOU FUCKING KIKES LYING ABOUT TAXES EVERY GODDAMN FUCKING DAY. EVERY GODDAMN ONE OF YOU DESERVED THE OVENS. THE HOLOCAUST WASN'T REAL, BUT IT GODDAMN WELL SHOULD HAVE BEEN.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:15:02 2018 No.6758677

>>6758290
These are the precedents for digital assets so far. Just because you want to hide your head in the sand to push some bullshit narrative doesn't make you right. I am giving you real world examples of my argument. Taxes and digital assets have come up many times in the past. Second Life was the first time I really learned about it.

In the realm of digital assets, you pay when you cash out. Its always worked this way and it always will. Because you cant do it any other fucking way. Its literally impossible. I have gone over this topic infinitely. Even when people made millions selling digital assets before. There was never a need to report how much you still own of that asset for CPG. These laws have been in the books for years. It has never been enforced and it never will.

The precedent on CPG on digital assets has never been set. You are destroying your earnings if you think otherwise.

Pay when you cash out.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:17:11 2018 No.6758775 As a pajeet these threads make me so happy to read. You guys are going to make your white collar prisons rich when justice is served in burger land.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:17:36 2018 No.6758795

>>6757272
>the only thing which isn't clear is if FBAR/8938 is needed

Q-2: Is virtual currency treated as currency for purposes of determining whether
a transaction results in foreign currency gain or loss under U.S. federal tax laws?
A-2: No. Under currently applicable law, virtual currency is not treated as currency that
could generate foreign currency gain or loss for U.S. federal tax purposes.

I'm going to go with no on that one.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:17:51 2018 No.6758807 File: 11 KB, 205x246, 1513040248470.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6758081 'bout tree fiddy

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:19:39 2018 No.6758871

>>6758775

You will be waiting a looooong time before people who pay when they cash out get thrown in jail because of how they earned the money.

These threads are all FUD. Not one person has an example so far CPG was applied to digital assets and it was enforced. I am still waiting.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:20:41 2018 No.6758916 >paying tax on crypto JUST

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:21:31 2018 No.6758968

>>6758871

Of course nobody has been thrown in jail yet. Because this tax regulation only existed since the beginning of 2018. I can almost 100% guarantee you that biz will be full of people asking for advice next year, because they are being fucked by the tax jew so hard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:22:16 2018 No.6758998 >>6758795 based, but can i get a source?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:22:59 2018 No.6759029 >>6758998 https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-drop/n-14-21.pdf

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:23:46 2018 No.6759071 >>6759029 kike faggot, noone is using ur shitty software

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:24:33 2018 No.6759107 >>6759029 based, thanks anon

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:24:35 2018 No.6759109 >>6759071 >irs.gov Full retard.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:25:06 2018 No.6759138 >>6753576 >makes $1M in a year >doesn't hire a tax jew You're wrong about pretty much everything you said. Go hire someone who knows how things work.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:27:29 2018 No.6759236 let's say my shitcoin 100x's overnight and I make 500k. If I withdraw that all to fiat I won't have to pay any taxes on it until next year? What do I do when my bank account is invariably flagged?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:29:30 2018 No.6759336 >>6753576 >cashing out

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:29:46 2018 No.6759347 >>6759236 >What do I do when my bank account is invariably flagged? You tell them you sold a shitton of crypto and to fuck off, then pay the tax next year.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:31:11 2018 No.6759399 >>6758378 >Hurrr durrr lets just all follow the sheeple laws like the good goyim Just hire a good jew tax attorney or some shit like Trump and all the millionaires do

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:32:42 2018 No.6759468 >>6759347 So I guess I don't have to worry much this year? My portfolio was worth 120k on december 31st. Today it's worth about 500k. So I just need to pay on the trades from last year leading up to 120k? Meaning I'll only owe like 50k this April?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:33:46 2018 No.6759515

>>6759236
Next year you will need to report 500k in earnings. The IRS will fuck you on THIS if you don't.

>>6759029
>>6759071
>>>6759029
>kike faggot, noone is using ur shitty software

HAHA!! I knew someone was going to shill that shit in this thread.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:35:35 2018 No.6759579 File: 449 KB, 403x584, Screen Shot 2018-01-19 at 17.40.50.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6759515 not if he keeps it in btc YOU ONLY PAY TAXES IF YOU CASH TO FIAT. DONT PAY TAXES ON YOUR CRYPTO PORTFOLIO, OR GET KEKED BY THESE KIKES

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:35:41 2018 No.6759583 >>6759468 With that kind of gains, you really should talk to a cpa. I would suggest setting that 50k aside in fiat just in case.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:37:30 2018 No.6759655 File: 55 KB, 617x347, brainlets1.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6759583 If he cashes out the 50k he will owe 20k in taxes on the 50k he cashed out though

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:41:06 2018 No.6759772

>>6758968
>Of course nobody has been thrown in jail yet. Because this tax regulation only existed since the beginning of 2018. I can almost 100% guarantee you that biz will be full of people asking for advice next year, because they are being fucked by the tax jew so hard.

Ok now, use your head and connect the dots yourself. Its always been this way for a reason. If it were possible to set the precedent on taxing capital gains for owning and trading digital assets it would have been enforced years and years ago.

The reason it hasn't been enforced is simple. Its not possible to do it an any realistic way. Its also ridiculous events would transpire afterwords. You might think its easy to define the difference between crypto and other digital assets you will be in for a hard time. The moment you begin to define these standards is the moment we make crypto that bypasses the rules entirely. Never bet against peoples greed and willingness to create back doors, workarounds.

These threads are FUD. Its major bullshit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:41:29 2018 No.6759786 The discord pump group that is unstoppable,,, https://discord dot gg/6ddqFHd

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:42:32 2018 No.6759824 >>6759579 Yep exactly. Just keep it in BTC.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:43:21 2018 No.6759863

>>6753576

You're retarded kys

You only pay taxes on realized profits, meaning that until you have the USD, you don't have anything

The IRS is also not the evil ass raping shadow agency that it is made out to be. If a situation like this did somehow happen and you sat down with an agent, they would most likely write it off as long as showed them proof that you're not just trying to fraud your taxes

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:43:32 2018 No.6759867

>>6756906
The IRS is not there to track your trades. It is up to you. A decent brokerage firm would send you a 1099-B but there are no crypto regulations and they are not required to. When you have 100k of cash incoming to your bank account, you could get caught. Some of you won't, some of you will.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:43:35 2018 No.6759870 >willingly telling irs how much crypto you have Which one of you kikes did this?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:44:50 2018 No.6759910 >>6753678 That's not even true.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:46:29 2018 No.6759965 >>6757503 I made 70k runescape melee staking + 50k game host and I didn't pay anything to the IRS back in 2011-12.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:46:30 2018 No.6759966 >>6753767 Hey dipshit, they clarified you can only write off a total of 3,500 as a loss. Stop acting like you know what you're talking about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:47:00 2018 No.6759985 >>6758110 but since everyone trades crypto and probably underpays taxes it will be like a all-you-can-eat buffet for the IRS to audit big crypto traders in order to get more...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:47:51 2018 No.6760016 >>6759966 there's only a cap on the rollover per year, not within the year.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:51:02 2018 No.6760145 >>6753576 how do these posts even get attention literally dumber than jesus

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:52:03 2018 No.6760176 >>6755612 you HODL'd that shit for a year cash out 15%

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:52:39 2018 No.6760204

>>6759965
You can sell Diamond or grand master level Overwatch accounts for a lot right now.

A buddy of mine got his initial Bitcoin investments by selling CS:GO weapon skins as well. Anyone who thinks CS:GO weapon skills are not valued digital assets are full of shit.

If CPG applied to digital assets then YOU WOULD OWE money from getting the better more valuable skins.

There has been no precedent set for CPG on digital assets and doing so would be fucking insane.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:53:02 2018 No.6760220 Just file a 1031 (like king exchange) and you won't have to pay any taxes on crypto this year. unless you cash out. Crypto isnt considered a currency so a 1031 would apply.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 19:55:11 2018 No.6760291 >>6760204 this is the best virtual property assessment I have ever seen, thanks

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:07:20 2018 No.6760730

>>6760220
The 2018 tax bill clarified that like-kind treatment doesn't apply to crypto. That guarantees you can't use it for trades this year, but I suspect the wording is meant to apply retroactively too. They basically didn't close that loophole, they "clarified" that it never existed.
Worth a try if you can get a cpa to stamp it though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:12:19 2018 No.6760914 Stop over exaggerating taxes jesus, its different for every person depending on your original income tax rate, can range anywhere from 10% to 39%

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:14:25 2018 No.6760994 >>6753576 we make a stand and dont pay any tax. Fight for wht we rightfully own till the death.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:26:51 2018 No.6761448
File: 196 KB, 997x832, Capture.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6758795
Be careful. Most lawyers say otherwise. The answer is not concrete.....all that publication says is that they don't treat crypto like foreign currency. If you are holding crypto on an exchange, that may be considered as a foreign account if you are using Binance or Bitfinex. You should look online for crypto lawyers that list these things out.

https://www.goldinglawyers.com/do-i-report-bitcoin-on-an-fbar-or-fatca-form-8938/

Again, a lot of people won't get audited or caught, but many will. The IRS forces you to prove that you are innocent. If you can't gather cost basis data on your 1000 trades, they may put you in a situation where the basis must be calculated at $0 on everything. You could owe a lot of money.

Anyone with lots of crypto gains should file an extension to see what happens....let other people be the guinea pigs. Wait until October and see if they clarify any of this stuff for you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:29:17 2018 No.6761509 >>6758110 Some banks will report your account directly to the IRS for an audit if you have a sudden influx of money.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:35:14 2018 No.6761679

>>6761509
Sure, but you pay your taxes and the IRS wont bother you. They only care if they report it and you never pay taxes on it.

You idiots keep making it sound like they will call up the IRS THAT DAY and you will suddenly be in trouble THAT DAY.

The IRS only gives a shit if you make money and don't pay your taxes on it.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:36:31 2018 No.6761721

I make like 10-15k a year selling shit on eBay. Not a business, just selling random shit, mostly collectible cards. I buy cards from stores, play with em in whatever game and sell em later. Do I owe lots of taxes? Real question here. I've never even thought about it. Have never been audited but it is money in my pocket every year. Basically just fuels the hobby though.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:37:06 2018 No.6761741

>>6759863
Anon, stop spreading fucking misinformation. The new tax laws have removed any possibility that Crypto-Crypto can be considered as like-kind trades, which only applies to real estate now. When you exchange between two coins, you are expected to report gains/loses on that transaction. WHETHER OR NOT this will be enforced throughly is an entirely different question. That being said, it would not hurt to keep an excel log of your trades, or to use some kind of software if you're a day trader making a shitton of trades each day.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:40:08 2018 No.6761847

>>6760204
No you wouldn't, those assets are not designed with real-world value in mind, there's definitely a grey area there. All of those things are technically owned by Blizzard/Steam when you agree to their EULAs. If you get banned by them, you can't do shit about it. Just because people get real money involved, doesn't mean they're in the same class as crypto currencies. Furthermore, I'd imagine the total revenue being generated by those avenues is not enough to grab the IRS' attention. Crypto is set to explode this year, and there will definitely be a shitton of people cashing out some big bucks.

Stop with the sovereign citizen tier shit.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:42:37 2018 No.6761918

>buy 5 ETH on Goybase
>transfer to Binance wallet
>use ETH to buy shitcoins that magically moon to $100+/EA
>just pay the capital gains on 5 ETH (Binance won't be giving the IRS shit--IRS can only get records of my goybase transactions)
>just tell the IRS I kept the 5 ETH on binance

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:46:24 2018 No.6762042

>report coinbase purchases and trades to binance
>use gains to buy BTC
>use BTC to buy shit on deepweb
>sell shit you get on deepweb.
I know of a few sites you can buy virtually anything. Tvs, computer parts, drugs, guns, clothes. Buy expensive electronics and sell for cash. crypto successfully laundered.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:47:10 2018 No.6762073 >>6761721 Yes, and technically, you should have a business license and be paying state, federal, and if applicable in a few states, B&O taxes to your state and city. Could you get caught, maybe....will you? probably not

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:49:33 2018 No.6762154

>>6761847
>No you wouldn't, those assets are not designed with real-world value in mind, there's definitely a grey area there.

oh ok, so any crypto that has a EULA that states with no real world value in mind. Then its 100% tax free huh?

> All of those things are technically owned by Blizzard/Steam when you agree to their EULAs.

Then any crypto that is designed in a similar way such as XRP would be 100% tax free then right? I mean Dash is technically owned by the people who run the master nodes.

> Just because people get real money involved, doesn't mean they're in the same class as crypto currencies.

Ok so anything that is worth money but wasnt supposed to be worth money as its core functionality should be left alone be tax code. OK

> Furthermore, I'd imagine the total revenue being generated by those avenues is not enough to grab the IRS' attention.

They represent massive billion dollar industries in many cases.

> Crypto is set to explode this year, and there will definitely be a shitton of people cashing out some big bucks.

And those people will pay taxes when they cash out.

> Stop with the sovereign citizen tier shit.

Go fuck yourself. No seriously, I have explained like 20 posts in this thread multiple times the entire situation. Then you come in not reading shit, not understanding the topic. Misunderstanding what I was even talking about then even have the gal to characterize me and my arguments.

Its people like perpetuate this bullshit. CPG is not possible on digital assets. And it hasn't been possible for decades. And its been tried multiple times too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:50:33 2018 No.6762200 >>6762073 That fucking blows. I've been selling my pokemon/magic cards since I was like 10. Why big government gotta ruin all the fun? All I want is to be able to build the decks I want without going bankrupt...

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:56:10 2018 No.6762395 >>6762200 You don't have to worry about paying taxes on eBay transactions unless you receive more than $20k AND 200 transactions per year. PayPal wont issue a 1099k unless you meet those requirements.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 20:56:37 2018 No.6762406 File: 1.45 MB, 2550x3300, serveimage.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6753576 pay cash, ya dingus

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:01:21 2018 No.6762547

>>6762154
If the only thing they do is buy BTC and then move back into USD after 5 years, then yes, it's that simple.

If they move into BTC then a day later move into ETH, XRB, and VEN, it is a taxable event. If after two weeks they move from ETH to XRP, XRB to ADA, and half of their VEN to NEO, those are 3 more taxable events that will be added onto your ordinary income for 2018. The trade from VEN to NEO would require you to use FIFO basis method to determine which coins were being moved.

If you lose it all in a short period of time, then you have a capital loss to offset any gain with a maximum of $3000 that can be rolled over onto next year in the situation that you have net losses.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:01:33 2018 No.6762559 File: 176 KB, 1299x533, taxcucks.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] can some IRS/Government shill respond to picrel or are you just here to shill your shitty software BS like someone earlier said?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:02:02 2018 No.6762575 >>6753891 You have to do quarterly taxes and register a business if you are trading between cryptos. Otherwise you are fucked.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:06:41 2018 No.6762734

>>6762547
If you want it to be that way you can pretend to your hearts desire. In actual real world practice this will never be the case based on how everything has already worked up to this point.

Anyone can make up some crazy rules, but rules that cannot be taken seriously will never be enforced. And it hasn't been enforced once yet. Not one fucking time. People have made millions in digital assets. And the IRS only bugged them when they cashed out. If you deny this fact you are a reality denier.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:08:42 2018 No.6762805 >>6762547 if i traded in 2017 does it apply as well? Or only starting in 2018? I havent touched anything in 2018 but ive obviously sold BTC for NEO and Stinky Linkies

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:10:45 2018 No.6762871 >>6753696 It does. Assuming he trades all the time. Every trade is taxable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:11:06 2018 No.6762883 The FUD is to make people use shitty tax software. DON'T FUCKING USE IT ANONS!!

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:11:10 2018 No.6762888

>>6762395
But they are still taxable and would be reported on schedule C, even if it's a hobby they would still call it business income I'm sure. Banks and credit unions are not required to mail you a physical 1099-INT unless your interest is over $2. But the 1099-INT still exists and your $1.88 of interest is still supposed to be reported to the IRS.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:11:47 2018 No.6762906

>>6762734
I'm sure those are some salty nocoiners/tax consultant shills etc.

HERE IS WHAT YOU DO TO NEVER WORRY ABOUT MUH EVERY TRADE TAXABLE BS:
>you take your cost basis from all your crypto purchases done with fiat
>you make up some fake trades that add ap to the final amount you want to cash out
>done

how will the fucking IRS be able to tell if it's your real binance trade history or not? there is no names attached to any of those sheets etc

>muh tracking every trade
>quarterly reports (top kek)
you idiots would eat someone's shit if you were told to do that, fucking cucks

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:14:12 2018 No.6762977

>>6762883
the best part is that this BS software won't even work

>how would it include txs fees
>how would it include between-wallet transfer fees
>how would it include icos/pooling/airdrops/donations
>is it gonna chew through different sheet formatting from different exchanges?
etc etc

it's all BS snake oil

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:15:44 2018 No.6763024

>>6762906
Yep! Its super easy to do that too.
Not only that but literally any made up story is plausible as hell. Finding a wallet, losing a password.

The bottom line is though, none of this shit will come into play. The vast majority of us will be, we cash out some money, report it on our taxes and you are done. its how it always worked before, its how it will continue to work in the future.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:18:36 2018 No.6763099

>>6762559
If there are no records, then they tax you as all of it is profit/income. So instead of only paying on 10k of profit not including the 2k initial investment; you would be taxed on 12k of profit.

And mining is counted as income, so it is taxed the same as you would be taxed anyway since I doubt you are holding a single crypto for more than 1 year, seeing as there are only a few coins that can be traded back to fiat and I don't think you will wait 1 year from selling your alt coins to cashing out in fiat.

As for the last one, you count that as a loss then if you lost money trading back to fiat. If that offsets all of your gains, then you fucked up.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:18:52 2018 No.6763108 >>6753576 youre an idiot. If the market crashes all you have to do is trade once and trade back into your cash out crypto. Then you have realized loses which cancel out the gains. you are a fucking moron if you dont realize this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:22:35 2018 No.6763233 >>6763108 Only in the same year. Hope you cashed out your tax fiat for 2017 already, because if it crashes tomorrow you can't cancel out the gains from 2017.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:23:42 2018 No.6763284

>>6763024
that's literally how it's gonna be
they will be more than happy as long as you're willing to give them 20% of what you made

and if not?
good luck fuckers, I'm taking my passphrase in my head through the airport and gonna restore and cash out everything in a country that doesn't hate money.

Idiots don't understand that crypto for the first time in human history allows you to transfer your entire wealth wherever you want. You don't even need to have your wallet with you. They cannot even search you etc.
That's why they will happily take the 20% with no BS.

>>6763099
>If there are no records, then they tax you as all of it is profit/income. So instead of only paying on 10k of profit not including the 2k initial investment; you would be taxed on 12k of profit.

Lol you think someone will care about that 2k difference?

If I turn 10k into a million I couldn't give less of a fuck about my cost basis. I will happily pay my taxes on 10k more than fuck around with all this record tracking bs and having to pay taxes after each year even if I don't cash out. Fuck that

And if someone has made only 10k then he should just sell his coins on localbitcoins instead of paying taxes like a cuck. What is IRS gonna do? even if they have your coinbase records?
you just say you lost everything / lost private keyes etc

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:28:24 2018 No.6763431

>>6762906
Exactly. This is something nobody has been able to answer. Even though I've used my personal email for the accounts (probably a bad idea) the IRS is not going to obtain data from the 7 exchanges I've used + etherdelta/idex. There's no fucking way that's happening. Also I could funnel my shit through monero so even if irs faggots somehow know my multiple eth public addresses they can't track shit in monero.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:29:17 2018 No.6763460

>>6763284
That's all well and good. The only possible obvious problem with that is however you put cash into crypto in the first place. Because then every year between that and cashing out they will want to know where their taxes are. I doubt they will try to actually track all that shit down, but maybe. Most likely it will just take a chunk of all of your cashing out as unpaid taxes and penalty, but that's just my guess.

And if you say you lost all records of when you put the cash into crypto, unless you paid cash directly to someone for crypto, they would try to track that down if you cashed out over X amount.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:29:49 2018 No.6763473

>>6762559
You don't need to answer all of these things. The burden of proof is always on you with the IRS. They can levy your wages until you prove them wrong, if they really and truly ARE wrong, which they are sometimes.

Once you move your BTC to cash and have large amounts of money moving into your account you set yourself up for the potential headache.

"I mined them years ago"
Prove it.
"I can't"
Ok, the cost basis is $0, you owe X

If you put in fake trades that add up then you won't get caught. You are knowingly committing fraud and a felony, and you probably wouldn't get caught.

You can gift your crypto to family members if you want, up to $14,000 per year against a lifetime limit fo $1,000,000, you fill out a 709. If you are doing it to commit fraud, you family will get in trouble for it too. You might not get caught.

If you have no records, at the least, your basis would be set to a short-term gain at $0, every $10,000 incoming to your bank would add into your ordinary income for the year.

How do you report forks ICOs? The same way you report stock splits, dividends, IPO purchases etc. Value in USD at the time it happens.......except since there is little regulation in crypto, none of those transactions are going to be tallied up for you because you are dealing with Binance in China. At Charles Schwab or E*Trade, your brokerage firm would have otherwise handled that if you were talking about MSFT stock.

If you don't have money, then you setup a monthly payment plan, your wages are levied, your assets/bank accounts can be seized; your home can be seized and auctioned. You can hire a tax attorney that can negotiate a lesser amount on your behalf.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:31:33 2018 No.6763520 Listen up irs faggots reading this. I don't mind paying taxes, everyone should pay their taxes. But I'm not tracking all my trades and good luck finding them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:34:11 2018 No.6763581 >>6763473 >If you put in fake trades that add up then you won't get caught. You are knowingly committing fraud and a felony, and you probably wouldn't get caught. and that's all we need to know /thread

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:35:56 2018 No.6763630

>>6762547
The only smart person here. All you other fucking retards saying you only pay when you cash out to fiat, read the fucking IRS statement. You are breaking the law and WILL get fucked it you have made any decent money in this market.

You don’t make up your own fucking rules, dumbasses

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:38:32 2018 No.6763695 >>6762871 Real talk: how the fuck would they ever know what you traded? Unless you are a retard and used an exchange that will bow to the IRS.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:39:33 2018 No.6763724

>>6763460
>Because then every year between that and cashing out they will want to know where their taxes are.

what taxes? if I never sold anything for fiat or haven't sold btc for eth etc on a verified exchanges they have no proof I ever realized any gain/loss

Even if they track the block explorer only thing they will be able to see is that my btc/eth went to binance or some even more exotic exchange's wallet. That's still not a prood I ever sold any of my cryptos purchased with fiat. I can just keep it on binance for 5 years.

Then I make up some fake trades to show them how I went from 2 btc to 100 btc when I cash out and done deal

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:39:52 2018 No.6763738 >>6763473 >They can levy your wages until you prove them wrong, if they really and truly ARE wrong, which they are sometimes. > They will freeze 500 USD on my checking account. OH NO!! My MMO SUBSCRIPTIONS!!!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:41:53 2018 No.6763805 >>6763630 You are just a fucking idiot. Its not even breaking the law. An unenforceable law is a law that basically doesn't exist.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:42:20 2018 No.6763818

>>6753762
Under the new, now current tax code, exchanges between "main" crypto and "alt coins" are all taxed PER TRADE in difference of USD.

Is it enforceable? Time will tell.
But if you choose to report based simply on what you cash out and provide ledgers/history, you could be held accountable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:42:22 2018 No.6763819 >>6763724 If you want to commit a felony to try to save some money that’s on you. No one can tell you what to do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:43:43 2018 No.6763866 This isn't a problem for those who buy and hold. Day traders get fucked

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:43:59 2018 No.6763878 >>6763819 like I have some moral obligation towards a tyranic system who not only prints money for themselves but also takes from me (unrealized gains at that) I will happily commit that felony

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:44:20 2018 No.6763887

It's too early to say whether or not it's enforceable and whether or not they'd go after people for it.

I doubt they could personally. But by the new law, unless you're avoiding taxes or committing identity theft/fraud, you've already provided your identity to those dozens of foreign exchanges.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:45:01 2018 No.6763905 >>6763818 >Is it enforceable? Time will tell. No! Its not fucking enforceable. And if you tried to do it you would be sticking your dick in a wasp nest.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:45:10 2018 No.6763908 >>6763866 The problem is there are no good direct fiat -> alt gateways right now. So if you’re trading btc/eth for alts.. those are taxable events. Although if you trade right after buying it should be a wash.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:45:31 2018 No.6763918 >>6763878 It's not a moral obligation, but a legal one. That's all they care about.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:45:31 2018 No.6763921

>>6763724
the cashing out is the only time they would even become aware that you had crypto that they wanted to tax. then any time you report a fake trade during the X years you had the crypto, or whatever record they may have from when you initially invested in crypto, is when they would ask why they did not get taxes.

So unless you can prove a single trade from your initial investment to your cashing out, they will want to know about any taxes they missed on in the intervening trades.

That's the whole point of people saying just pay taxes now. The IRS most likely won't ever know you have crypto until you cash out. At that point though, they want records on how you went from 2k investment to 100k investment. Maybe you can fake a single trade that justifies that, but you would have to do a shit load of research to find that one perfect trade. Also hopefully you don't account for 100% of your initial investment traded up to the 100k cased out if you have more crypto left, or they will wonder where the extra money comes from when you cash out more later.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:48:01 2018 No.6763999

>>6763818
>Under the new, now current tax code, exchanges between "main" crypto and "alt coins" are all taxed PER TRADE in difference of USD.

Won't matter too much in a bit, but they only clarified that they would now never accept like-exchange for crypto. You would still have to probably fight them to accept it for previous years crypto-crypto exchanges. Everyone keeps saying it's a new tax code, but it's not a new law. It's a clarification. For before this clarification, you can argue that it was like-kind exchange, but you will have to convince the IRS to accept that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:48:34 2018 No.6764018 File: 18 KB, 500x317, 1516159725112.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Fucking jews get your hands out of my pockets reeeeee

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:48:46 2018 No.6764027 >>6763918 Legal obligation to an unenforceable law. Yep... The thread everyone!

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:48:56 2018 No.6764034 >>6763921 Also, exchanges like Coinbase are reporting to the IRS.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:49:24 2018 No.6764051

>>6763866
what do you mean buy and hold?
let's say you have some btc bought 2 weeks ago
now you want to buy some shitcoin and "just hold it" you're realizing a gain on that btc because the price has grown a little over thos 2 weeks. You already have a tax obligation.

That's why you fake some trades when you're done trading cryptos.

>>6763918
no fucks given if it works.

>>6763921
Just fake a few trades during the year when you cash out. Cash out everything and that's it.
Why would I want to cash out in chunks? you can sit any storm in tether or other stable coin for the time being

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:49:26 2018 No.6764053

>>6763738
An IRS lien can last 10 years and can be refiled. If you want to live that way, it's up to you. No job for the next 10 years without levied wages? Live with your parents for the next decade? Rent an apartment? With what money? "Your income needs to be 4x monthly rent to stay here".

I don't like the IRS, I deal with them for work. The best and brightest in society don't go and work for the government. They ruin a lot of people's lives.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:50:11 2018 No.6764076 File: 118 KB, 400x416, 1516381493042.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >buy bread on sale >next day goes back to normal price >have to pay taxes on bread AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:50:52 2018 No.6764110 >>6764034 Coinbase is a fiat gateway that lets you store fiat. So it makes perfect fucking sense they would be treated like a bank. You do know you can store fiat on coinbase right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:51:51 2018 No.6764140 File: 56 KB, 1284x192, niggers.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6764076 like every obedient citizen absolutely should ;)

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:51:58 2018 No.6764147 >>6764076 > But nobody makes money selling bread!!!!

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:53:07 2018 No.6764180

>>6753576
You only pay on realized gains, so you pay taxes on the individual transactions and on total capital gains once you get the money, not before. If it worked this way no one would be in crypto bc every single financial adviser would be against it for this exact reason.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 21:54:51 2018 No.6764232 File: 649 KB, 1920x1080, resonance_of_fate_game-HD.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6758462 amen

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:01:02 2018 No.6764438

>>6764180
You realize gains/losses with every trade you place. A licensed financial advisors at a bonafide institution would not solicit crypto transactions or give any recommendations at this time per firm guidelines. Also, no advisor has an incentive to recommend crypto as they make no money in commissions, and crypto cannot be held in wrap accounts.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:01:53 2018 No.6764473
File: 30 KB, 636x550, Capital Gains Tax Rates.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

I really don't understand why people make this out to be so complicated when it really isn't. Crypto is taxed as Capital Gains (or Capital Loss). IF you REALIZE a gain (trading or selling your coin for any other coin OR USD at a profit) you then incur a tax liability for that transaction.
This Capital Gain is either a Long Term or Short Term gain. A short term gain is an asset that was held for 1 year or less. A long term gain is an asset that was held for more than 1 year. A short term gain is taxed at NORMAL INCOME TAX RATES (pic related). A long term gain is taxed differently, but still based on your income bracket (pic related).
The smartest way to trade crypto's (if you're sensitive to tax liabilities) is to set aside a portion of your profits from each trade for the tax liability incurred from the gain. That way, come tax season, you already have the money required for taxes, and you didn't lose it in the market.

Any questions?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:04:31 2018 No.6764569 Shit, if I'm in the 15% income bracket and I hodl for over a year before selling, I owe 0% long term capital gains tax? I thought your gains+income determined your bracket, but now I'm reading this isn't the case?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:06:34 2018 No.6764643 So I legit fkd a transaction on ED the first time I was there for ~1Eth. Not much but can I claim a loss for that? Every penny etc etc.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:16:55 2018 No.6764953

>>6764569
Capital Gains count towards your income, and therefore towards your tax bracket.

For Example:
If your income for the year is $9,000, you are in the 0% income tax bracket. HOWEVER, if you realize $10,000 in Capital Gains, this COUNTS TOWARDS your income. Your new income is $19,000 for the year, putting you in the 12% tack bracket.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:19:31 2018 No.6765027 >>6764953 If he made 9k, he is in the 10% tax bracket. Unless he held for over 1 year and is bumped to long term, in which case he is in the 0% bracket up to 38k. You posted the image man...

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:23:01 2018 No.6765137

>>6764953
Oh alright I see now. But I'm still better off holding for 1 year+, since anything short term is going to be hit with a higher rate

What if I bought a few thousand altcoins last year for ~$500, but then the price changed and I bought another thousand for ~$1,000? They are the same coin, but held for different amounts of time. Do I have to wait 1 year+ from the second round of purchasing in order to ensure a long term status?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:25:53 2018 No.6765220

>>6764953
If you only had income of 9000, after a personal exemption (if you aren't a dependent) and a standard deduction, you wouldn't pay any taxes on a 10k capital gain, most likely.

>>6764569
The portion of gain that puts you over the bracket is taxed at the higher level.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:31:01 2018 No.6765370 >>6765137 I think it was something like it would split depending on the percentage. So it would be something like 34% short and 66% long. Thought I remember reading something about that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:32:15 2018 No.6765418 >>6764643 Yes technically. No clue how you account for that though.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:33:53 2018 No.6765472 >>6758775 still better than being a fucking street shitting curry nigger

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:35:00 2018 No.6765504

>>6764643
Depends when you did it. If this happened in 2017, and you had a net loss for the year, then you can deduct up to $3000....you can roll another $3000 of losses onto 2018. Read about capital loss offsets and capital loss rollovers, and how they are applied.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:36:58 2018 No.6765563 >>6757010 if you hold one crypto and don't sell it into another, you don't pay taxes on it. i bought some stuff for 5k, it's now worth 400k. i don't owe taxes on the 395k profit because no taxable event has occurred with it yet.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:37:43 2018 No.6765597

>>6765027
You are correct, my mistake.
>>6765137
If you bought 1,000 coins at $1 and held for longer than a year, and then bought 1,000 more coins at $5, you can still realize the 1st 1,000 coins as a long term capital gain.
>>6765220
Can you please cite your claim that only the portion of gain that puts you over the bracket is taxed at a higher level? Why would someone pay two different tax rates on their income?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:37:50 2018 No.6765598 >>6765370 Makes sense

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:40:21 2018 No.6765665 >>6765504 It was, but I don't have a net loss. I assume it can be subtracted from my net gain, however.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:42:56 2018 No.6765731 >>6765665 Your net gain would be a result of subtracting the loss.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 22:58:21 2018 No.6766174 >>6765597 It's a progressive system. If you make $1 over the bracket range, then only that $1 is taxed at the higher level. I'm not going to dig around to find what section it is in the tax code.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:00:26 2018 No.6766230 >>6753576 Anyone who converts to fiat and doesn’t cash out immediately would be an idiot. Same for anyone who realizes gains and doesn’t cash out. They deserve what happens

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:07:03 2018 No.6766398 >>6765597 That’s how taxes work retard. If there’s a bracket at $20k and you make $50k you pay the taxes for the first &20k at that rate then the rest is taxed at the next rate. The absolute state of /biz/

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:21:44 2018 No.6766770

>>6753891
So if every trade is at market value then I don't make or lose anything from making a trade. It's only when I hold that the price goes up or down.

This is why I don't understand this shit. Like if 1eth is $1,000 and I sell it for .1 btc at $10,000 then I still have $1000 of crypto.
I know I'm fucking with numbers to make the math easy but seriously what is being taxed?

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:24:18 2018 No.6766835

All it takes is for the IRS to apply the BATF approach: illegal intent. Own crypto? Bam, money launderer! For proof, they'll get their CPAs on it, to brainstorm all possible crimes one could commit by employing crypto. Then charge you with all of them. Offer a settlement in the form of taking all your crypto and savings. Protected and served, motherfucker.
I'm only half joking.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:29:24 2018 No.6766962

>>6766770
The is no gains in that scenario so there would be nothing to tax. Each trade is still a taxable event in that it establishes the cost basis for the next trade. Say btc then goes up to 20k and you sell/trade it, your net gains would now be 9k, 10k gains minus the cost of 1k. To say something is a taxable event just means the gains are recalculated at that time.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:32:32 2018 No.6767045

>>6766835
If this happened the person hit by it becomes a celebrity basically. And the IRS will get its ass kicked in from insane backlash. Then it spawns another fucking occupy mental retardation spree that lasts multiple years and the guy who actually was a money launderer criminal scumbag hangs himself on a cross the entire time.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:32:40 2018 No.6767050 >>6766770 the GAINZ. If you hodl from 1k to 2k ETH, you will be taxed (depending on bracket) 30% of the DIFFERENCE between 1k and 2k. Make sense?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:34:08 2018 No.6767105 >>6766962 Math was off, forgot you said .1 btc not 1 btc, but you get the picture.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:37:31 2018 No.6767177 >>6766962 I get it now thanks anon but holy shit fuck uncle sam

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:39:36 2018 No.6767225

how the fuck do you "prove" a fake trade vs a real trade? there is no transaction number, half these exchanges dont even have proper records themselves. How, if told your guilty prove your innocence, would you prove that you in fact did/didnt lose 2k sending the wrong ERC20 token to an exchange?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:47:28 2018 No.6767443 >>6763431 If you are audited, THEY arent going to have to try and retrieve the evidence...YOU are. And if you dont gather up all that ridiculous bullshit, then you are fucked.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:50:17 2018 No.6767523

>>6767443
ok, but how in the court of law do you prove a trade on an exchange? if your personal log isnt enough. do they honestly expect you to screen cap every purchase on every exchange because these chink exchanges dont keep records? I have TX on BTC-E, I have them logged but how would I "prove" those transactions if taken to court by the IRS. serious question

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:50:37 2018 No.6767528

>>6767225
see
>>6767443

Ideally, one would take screencaps or something that matches up with the price at the time. We'll find out in a while once some of the guinea pig tax cases come out. Reddit will be full of normie tax problems. That is why everyone who is worried about it should file an extension this year.

Anonymous Sat Jan 20 23:56:44 2018 No.6767684

>>6767523
Normally a brokerage does it. For people who are buying highly speculative crypto, they aren't going to spare you. S screencap might help. It is a tax court, not a jury trial. If they find that your evidence isn't credible, than the judge will rule against you. Most of the time, if you have been audited, they have already established that something is wrong, so the court usually rules in the IRS favor. You might have the documents to back up an error on your return, and the judge might rule that no penalty is due, but you would still owe the taxes, because there was an error....or maybe he doesn't like you and he says you owe taxes and penalties.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:00:30 2018 No.6767781

>>6767684
I totally understand how the law works, I work at a law firm. What im wondering is what could possibly constitute as "credible" evidence from some of these exchanges.... im looking at you BTC-E. Your just destined to fail if you get audited? What would a judge consider credible if a screen cap isnt, given you cant get certified copies of transactions from Huobi.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:02:21 2018 No.6767835 >>6767781 You will have 3 important numbers - credits to exchange, debits from exchange, balance on exchange. Your trades will always equal those numbers

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:03:45 2018 No.6767870 >>6767684 It would ultimately wind up a full encompassing of your tax life, potentially past criminal and personal life. I honestly dont know how far the IRS digs when it comes to prosecuting if they deem what your doing as tax evasion.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:32:50 2018 No.6768616

Guys I just got my W-2 today. I put all the numbers in hrblock website and im getting close to 3k back. Now I WANTED to file crypto as like kind exchange, but their website won't even let me. It says 1031 like kind exchange is only for business or investment property. I may be able to if I pony up and but their 'premium version'. Should i just bite the bullet and do it, and hope the IRS accepts it? Or should I go to one of these professionals that they themselves don't know 100% the law because the IRS won't clarify. All my return is is a W2 and crypto trades.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:35:13 2018 No.6768680 >>6768616 Do you mean crypto to crypto trades? I don't think those are taxable under 2017 laws whatsoever, correct me if I'm wrong.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:40:08 2018 No.6768800

>>6768680
yes, that's what im talking about. There were a few people in the thread talking about it. Some say the new tax bill closed a loophole that we could use in 2017 and prior. Others say that they didn't close a loophole, they only clarified their position. But even if they are not taxable, you still need to report the trades. I have all my info on one of the bitcoin tracking sites, about 250 trades total for last year. Not too much, just trying to figure this out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:42:16 2018 No.6768844 >>6766230 Retard here, but what does FIAT mean? I keep seeing it....

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:42:24 2018 No.6768847

>>6768800
>But even if they are not taxable, you still need to report the trades

Fuck this I'm moving to malaysia or something, I can't keep track of all of this shit on shitty chink exchanges. So I seriously need to track every capital gain and loss (sometimes a single order can be filled in multiple parts, even), even if they are not taxable due to being like kind trades?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:43:26 2018 No.6768870 >>6768844 you have to be 18 to post here

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:43:36 2018 No.6768873 I have over 50k trades from an automated bot. What do?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:44:50 2018 No.6768897 >>6768873 print out every transaction made from the exchange (usually a csv file is provided by the exchange) give it to your jew tax man, and let him deal with it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:45:12 2018 No.6768907 >>6768870 I'm 25, just been kinda newfag on biz

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:45:17 2018 No.6768912

>>6768847
Lmao. Yeah, I have my stuff on bitcoin.tax, I like cointracking info a bit better though,.They make t easy to upload but eah, the whole thought of it is ridiculous. Also using BNB on binance in place of fees shows up on there too. It's such a tiny amount it doesnt register as a gain or loss but it's just funny sifting through pages and pages of BNB 'trades'. Detailed records is what these fucks want.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:45:53 2018 No.6768928 >>6768897 How much would one of these tax jews cost me if they have to manually go over that many shitcoin trades?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:49:33 2018 No.6769013 >>6756314 The IRS has a long standing policy of not giving a fuck where your money comes from. If you are a drug dealer, they expect you to report that income. As long as you pay the tax owed they do not give a single fuck what you did to earn it.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:52:12 2018 No.6769075

So I trapped myself in crypto... I just started crypto this year (I know pajeet blah blah blah). I understand the tax after cash out. But this cypto to crypto was never explained to me until now. Whats the likelyhood the IRS will nose in if I:

Just not cash out and eat my investment and keep my coin in exchange.
- or -
Can I just pull out now and be okay?

I thought this would be fun, the IRS is kinda fucking things up now. I don't want to end up in debt or have my shit seized because I wanted to learn something new.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:53:47 2018 No.6769125

>>6768800
I wouldn't expect like-kind treatment to fly. From what I've read and what I plan to do myself is first in/first out which is what all the crypto tax sites suggest. That report is about 250 pages in my case, I'll just take it to a cpa and see what they say.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 00:59:24 2018 No.6769245

>>6769075
It really isn't THAT bad, to simplify everything I cashed out completely at the end of the year, set aside taxes and some profits and bought back in on the first.
You do need to have records of your trades and you really should never be put in a position you owe more than you made, with 1 noted exception.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:00:53 2018 No.6769270 >>6769245 I guess I have some book keeping to do...

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:02:52 2018 No.6769308 >>6769245 I really don't expect to cash out more than 1-2k. Like I said, I just wanted to do this to learn.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:09:12 2018 No.6769461 >live in third world shithole >no taxes on capital gains >feelsgoodman.jpg

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:12:28 2018 No.6769559 >>6755369 >Prison Oh no no no hahahAHAHAHAHA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:13:47 2018 No.6769605 >>6769308 Now you can learn some book keeping and organizing your taxes anon, fairly fundamental to business and will be more useful to you than bit coins trading skills

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:18:48 2018 No.6769730 >>6769605 I suppose so. Now I have to go look at my order history.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:28:52 2018 No.6770030
File: 26 KB, 435x395, 1516231197671.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

IRS SHILLS:

I hope you're getting paid enough to spend your time shilling away to neets on a image board. Holy fuck, its too fucking easy pointing out the shills posts. Their FUD concern tone is fucking hilarious, and they talk among themselves back and forth to create even more FUD. Reminds me of Hillary shills in /pol/ during the elections.

PAY (IF YOU WANT TO) WHEN YOU CASH OUT. IF YOU DONT WANT TO THERES DOZENS OF WAYS OF CASHING OUT TO FIAT, LOCALBITCOINS, ETC.

DYOR

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:29:19 2018 No.6770049

>>6769730
Get familiar with formulas in excel, you can actually automate a lot of the math once you plug the numbers in properly. Exchanges will keep history of your orders and trades, the most tedious part will be examining what the value of each asset was in USD at the time the trade was made (just approx. to the hour) and plugging those numbers into Excel, if you have it.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:30:30 2018 No.6770077 >>6770030 I've been told localbitcoins has been made into a honeypot for Americans.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:30:40 2018 No.6770080 >>6753576 You're only taxed on what you sell numb nuts

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:31:47 2018 No.6770116 >>6753576 >make $1m >write off $800k >pay 40% on 200k wew

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:32:12 2018 No.6770125 >>6762871 even so shit for brains... there are capital gains and capital losses... the pros purposely take losses on assets so they can offset taxes... >ffs you idiots go pay $200-300 for a fucking CPA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:32:50 2018 No.6770141 >>6770080 how many times have we been over this by now

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:35:12 2018 No.6770200 >>6763695 And what exchanges are you using anon?

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:38:09 2018 No.6770271

>>6770080

For fuck's sake. Could you at least take a single second to search for the new regulations that are in place since 2018?

Crypto to crypto is a taxable event. This is the only truth there is. If you buy BTC, trade it for ETH and in the meantime BTC has gone up 50%, you're taxed on that 50% gain. And you're taxed in USD, although you never even had that money in your hands in the first place.

If you think this isn't the truth you're flat out wrong. If you want to do it differently, do it however you want. Just don't come crying here when the IRS rapes your entire family and asks for your trade documentation.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:41:26 2018 No.6770355
File: 517 KB, 628x343, 1516309609510.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6770077

Haven't heard any of that. There are others ways. Cashing out slowly won't get you flagged on your bank account. Everyone here just wants to transker 200k gains from coinbase to their bank account. Are you fucking kidding me? You take profits SLOWLY.

The whole point of block chain technology is having no interference from the government and exchanging value between people around the world...

And y'all are this desperate and nervous to deal with your taxes. It's like some of you WANT the government to interfere. Half of you haven't had a real job in your life apart from part-time at a some shit store or haven't received a single W2.

NO ONE IS GOING TO JAIL. CHILL BIZ. PAY WHEN YOU CASH OUT (OR NOT). FIND A WAY. DRUG LORDS, PIMPS, ETC HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS. STOP READING IRS SHILL POSTS.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:51:06 2018 No.6770620

>>6753576

An actual thread with content for once thank you all. Can I please have any insight from the people here.

In 2015 I buy $150 in a shit coin. Over the next few months I use shapeshift with no records and spend half the shit coin on 4 other shit coins. I lose interest and ignore everything till current year. My 150 dollars in shit coins is now worth 60k. I have not cashed anything out. I did not know I needed to log out pay a fee on the trades. The only evidence I have is wallet transactions. How do I get square with the IRS so I can try cashing some out without getting raped?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 01:57:02 2018 No.6770782 >>6770049 This all seems needlessly complicated... thanks IRS. I should be able to use the charts to approximate the USD at the time, right? And binance uses 'market price' in the logs, do I just take the average?

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:06:28 2018 No.6771002

>>6770620
That is fairly simple if you haven't actually traded anything since 2015. You cash out pay on the long term. If you get audited your transaction record proves you owned the coin for longer than one year and you treat it as zero cost since you can't prove the cost basis.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:08:25 2018 No.6771057 >>6770782 Any of the tax sites do that automatically. Pretty sure it just pulls api data from cmc

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:10:54 2018 No.6771123 >>6771057 Neat. Have any links to share that can help me with this tax crap?

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:17:26 2018 No.6771266

Just google it, forbes did a pretty good rundown on whats available.
One tip I can offer is brush up excel/google docs, you may need to reformat some csvs to import properly. (Cryptopia)
Also https://deltabalances.github.io/ does that for you if you've been trading on etherdelta.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:18:28 2018 No.6771293 >>6771266 directed at >>6771123

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:22:50 2018 No.6771384 File: 26 KB, 412x365, 1509165363792.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>6771266 Awesome thanks for the help! I hope the IRS gets their shit kicked in for this trivial bullshit, but we all know that won't be the case.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:35:00 2018 No.6771611 Is there a way to sell for fiat onto something like a prepaid debit card from Walmart? Just something to take 2k out at a time without raising suspicions

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 02:58:53 2018 No.6772043

So we're supposed to assume that the IRS is going to be auditing the blockchain which doesn't require your ID as long as you stay below transfer thresholds and the only marketplace that has my info is coinbase where I cash out. Oh yeah I can't wait to file my coin to coin transactions. I'll get right on that.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:01:07 2018 No.6772072 >>6771611 Monero works right now already. You always find a way ..

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:06:18 2018 No.6772174 >>6772043 cant tell if larp... what they audit is you and this would work backwards from cuckbase in this situation. if you been cashing in and out this way you are not mentally equipped to successfully evade, you are merely relying on hope.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:12:24 2018 No.6772267

>>6772174
What I'm saying is, if I purchased $1000 worth of ETH from coinbase, then transfer that to an exchange that hasn't verified my identity and I start trading for a bunch of alt coins. How exactly are they going to be tracking all that? After selling off all the alt coins and putting the ETH back into coinbase and then selling that, paying capital gains on the gains. What exactly is their process to see the transaction going on at say cryptopia based in New Zealand which isn't in IRS jurisdiction?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:21:06 2018 No.6772436 >>6772267 If you get audited you’re fucked though.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:23:26 2018 No.6772484 >>6772436 Yeah I guess you would be fucked if it wasn't all anonymous is what I'm saying.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:28:37 2018 No.6772587

>>6772267
They don't track any of it. They don't track stock purchases or sales either. Your brokerage dimes you out and reports everything to the IRS; they then send you a 1099-B for your tax return and the data needs to match up.

You are supposed to track everything as well. Incoming foreign cash is usually considered to be suspicious. They might ask where the money is from. You are supposed to report foreign holdings. The IRS doesn't watch cryptopia. But if your bank recognizes patterns in money coming in from a foreign exchange, they might notify the IRS, or other agencies.

They look for money laundering and structuring and other financial crimes. Safeway or Fred Meyer would file a SAR for large money orders. There is no set limit for suspicious activity and they are not allowed to tell you when it has happened.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:32:19 2018 No.6772673 >>6759579 What if you bought gold?

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:39:41 2018 No.6772843
File: 45 KB, 667x375, 002.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>6753576
you know how I know you're poor? because you think someone could make a million in realized gains without cashing anything out to pay taxes. you're not only poor, but also mentally handicapped.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:39:46 2018 No.6772845 >>6772267 >if I purchased $1000 worth of ETH from coinbase, then transfer that to an exchange >where did these ETH go anon?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:45:53 2018 No.6772960 >>6753576 >And what do we learn? maybe leave burgerland?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:47:37 2018 No.6772992 >>6753576 Holy shit /biz/ is fucking retarded. You only pay taxes on PROFIT. Please euthanize yourself

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:50:18 2018 No.6773046

>>6772267
They don't care about that. They use tools like ChainAnalysis that let them see relationships across huge datasets. All they need to see are the funds you are moving around and your address history. If that address is linked to a US exchange you could get screwed.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:54:51 2018 No.6773147

>>6772992
What he means is you realized gains last season and did not take any out in valuable fiat to pay your taxes, this year the market bears 90%. You can realize a capital loss and claim against it next year, but you cannot claim against the previous years profits.

This is a good example of why staying on top of your liabilities is paramount. Merely ignoring can literally bankrupt you.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 03:58:32 2018 No.6773228 Honestly we should just figure out an efficient way to remove the government, maybe they should step aside willingly rather than trying to hold power until they are killed?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 04:22:26 2018 No.6773783 >>6753762 You pay taxes on crypto to crypto sales so you have to cash out with every trade.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 04:28:24 2018 No.6773913

>>6772992
This is not true. You pay taxes on crypto to crypto trades so if you do not liquidate enough of your position into cash you will bankrupt yourself. You have to liquidate into cash with every trade according to your profit at the time of the trade.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 04:39:01 2018 No.6774140

>>6773783
>>6773913

This is pretty close, but you don't need to cash out every trade, you just need to understand your position ideally at all times but especially toward the end of the reporting year.

We have these threads constantly and the only anons who will get fucked are the ones who are 'surprised' when they're the one in fifty that cops an audit and chose to sit completely unprepared

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 04:52:28 2018 No.6774400 >>6774140 I'm not sure this crypto tax law will stand, there is no other form of property that can be taxed but receives no tax benefits. Securities and whatnot are not like-kind because they produce income, crypto is speculative. It makes no sense.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 04:57:41 2018 No.6774501 >>6774400 Pardon my fucking bluntness anon but your sureness is irrelevant

>>	Anonymous Sun Jan 21 05:06:03 2018 No.6774646 >>6774501 Let me rephrase then faggot, any good lawyer could take this law to court and have a very good chance at successful nullifying it.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 05:14:49 2018 No.6774808

>>6774646
I appreciate this faggot and you are welcome to take on the challenge of flipping freshly clarified rules.

All I really give a shit about anons doing is keeping proper records and staying on the front foot. The last fucking thing I want to see is /biz/ getting justd by the tax office, unless they are pajeets.

Anonymous Sun Jan 21 05:28:56 2018 No.6775037

>>6774808
I understand and I agree everyone needs to do their taxes correctly, but we shouldn't pretend like this law makes any god damn sense. If crypto is taxed then it should have like-kind transfers just like precious metals and real estate. The only thing excluded from like-kind transfers are income producing securities, and crypto is not that.

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/biz/ - Business & Finance