/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.661623]

If you have physical gold (or silver), what do you do with it?

Do you store it in the bank? In a vault at home? Do you remove the protectors to hold the coins? Do you like to admire it? Often? Do you sell when the price is good or do you keep the metal forever?

I'm trying to understand what people are doing, concretely, daily, with all this gold.

[Anonymous No.661625]

I buy $GLTR when the PMs are cheap. I have about $10k invested now. It's really just a hedge.

[Cal !7p6ZFzW.pU No.661987]

>>661623

I don't believe in gold as a good investment, but I did buy an 1 oz gold panda for the luz

I leave it in my desk and just admire it once in a while when I want to procrastinate. Sometimes when I have friends over for a game or what not and need a coin toss, I'll bring it out

[Anonymous No.662120]

>>661623
safes, storage deposits, a corner of the house no one will ever look. It's compact and easy to hide

[Anonymous No.662213]

>>661623
I've only got about 50 oz of silver so I just keep it in a lockbox in a box in my closet. I have 10 chinese pandas that are all in original air-tite containers, a few rounds/bars that I like are in sleeves/pouches, leftover rounds are in kept in tubes. I admire my silver almost every single day, the touch and sound it makes when you handle 10 coins at a time is nice. PMs are a lot more satisfying to me than putting money in my portfolio but I'm not going to pretend they're a better way to invest. If silver drops below $10 I will start buying a lot more.

[Anonymous No.662228]

>>661623
I keep some of the prettiest one home to admire, i kept the rest in a overseas vault.

[Anonymous No.662236]

gold is a shit tier investment nowadays op

silver is a much better "investment", as is copper (assuming you're willing to have a box full of it)

[Anonymous No.662238]

I keep my gold in a chest, buried deep in a secret location known only to me and my most trusted crew.

[Anonymous No.662285]

>>662236
>>662213
Silver and copper are terrible investment vehicles. The rate of global consumption of silver and copper is vastly overshadowed by global production and reclamation.

Gold still has value as a storage of value and so long as the Greek question remains open, there will be heavy resistance to go below 1200/oz.

Gold makes sense if you buy in the short term because ECB is planning on shelling out a trillion euros in 18 months. Of course that's also being parred by low USD inflation. I think gold is poised to push higher in 4 months when they revisit the Greek question.

[Anonymous No.662985]

>>662285
It's funny how many different reasons and theories people will come up with to justify their stance on one precious metal or another.

[Anonymous No.663372]

>>661623

Physical gold should be held as insurance against your own currency going belly up. It serves as additional diversification within your portfolio. If your local economy implodes your gold is still worth $$$ in other established markets and may cover a 1-way ticket out of the anarchy + some pocket money. However, gold does not generate dividends, interest, or coupons and should never be more than 5% of your portfolio. It can also be stolen so keep it locked up in a safe, safety deposit box, or store it overseas.

[Anonymous No.663383]

I've always wanted a Krugerrand just because it looks nice. Maybe if it drops below a thousand I'll get one.

[Anonymous No.663738]

>>661623
> If you have physical gold (or silver),

I have both. They are part of a diverse set of investments and are only a small percentage of my total portfolio.

> what do you do with it?

Occasionally look at it and think about buying some more or what else I might do with it in the future. Mostly just leave it sitting there. Also, gold coins are a good inspiration for daydreams.

> Do you store it in the bank?

No

> In a vault at home?

No

> Do you remove the protectors to hold the coins?

No. Apart from some junk silver (old, worn coins that are partially silver- for example pre-1947 British half-crowns), they are all in capsules or blister packs (usually if you buy from a dealer, they will put the coins in capsules if you ask, or if you buy direct from a mint, they will be in blister packs of some kind). Fingerprints tarnish coins- although I am mostly keeping it for the bullion value, there is no point in destroying the numismatic value of the coins.

> Do you like to admire it? Often?

Occasionally. A box full of gold and silver, even a small one, is an impressive sight. Some of the coins themselves are beautifully designed (Austrian Philarmonikers, for example) or have historical significance etc. I have some coins (for example proof coins- higher quality than bullion grade) which have numismatic value as well as value as bits of metal.

> Do you sell when the price is good or do you keep the metal forever?

At the moment I plan to keep it forever and/or maybe just hand it over to a favoured relative when I am old (or maybe bury it in a field somewhere) but I am keeping an open mind.

[Anonymous No.663755]

>>661623
>Do you store it in the bank? In a vault at home?
I store it in my ass.

[Anonymous No.663795]

>>661623

fireproof safe.

It's a novelty and last resort more than anything else.

[Cal !7p6ZFzW.pU No.663891]

>>662236
> silver is a much better "investment", as is copper

you do realize a ton of copper only costs around 5k right? the moment you invest any real amount of money in copper, you're going to have an instant negative 50% returns just from delivery and storage fees.

[Anonymous No.664008]

>>663891
If you're sane and want direct exposure to copper for whatever reason, you use an ETF / futures.

[Anonymous No.664014]

>>662238
Noice

[Anonymous No.665165]

>>661623
i keep it in fort knox

[Anonymous No.665555]

>>661623
It satisfies my dragon like desires.

[Anonymous No.665795]

>mfw silver tested $16 floor and is now on the way TO DA MOON

[Anonymous No.665806]

>Do you like to admire it? Often?

Why am I laughing so hard at this.

[Anonymous No.665810]

>>665806
Because it's funny and basically what individuals use gold for.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOYK0o7ydZg
>you are now imagining Warren Buffett fondling a giant cube of gold

[Anonymous No.665818]

>>665795
silver will never be anything but gold's poor mutant cousin

[Anonymous No.665843]

>>665810
Except he didn't take the exxon mobils

[Anonymous No.665849]

>>665843
BRK had a major stake in XOM when the video was made.

[Anonymous No.665896]

>>665849
I meant keep

[Cal !7p6ZFzW.pU No.665904]

>>664008
yeah, I was addressing the gold bugs and preppers who typically hold physicals since they don't trust securities.

you'll see youtube videos of preppers sorting through and hoarding 30 pound boxes of copper pennies, then you realize their basement full of copper is only worth 100-200 dollars.

kek kek

[Anonymous No.665921]

>>665896
Sometimes the crops that are grown just aren't good anymore and you have to sell the farm. You'd still rather put the money into another farm than gold.

[Anonymous No.666183]

>>661987
This. People who think gold is an "investment" are fucking literally retarded and don't understand how to make money with investments. Literally the only reason to buy physical gold is because you want some physical gold. One day I'd like to have a nice collection of pure metals, but that's just cause I think they'd be neat to have.

[Anonymous No.666267]

>>666183
>People who think gold is an "investment" are fucking literally retarded and don't understand how to make money with investments.

nope

> Literally the only reason to buy physical gold is because you want some physical gold.

not this either

gold is a hedge and/or store of value. it should not be a person's only investment. it has a place in a diverse portfolio. to reject it completely is, to use your expression, "fucking literally retarded".

[Anonymous No.666273]

>>666267
>nope
Yep. Actually, I think most people who "invest" are conservative to the point of idiocy.

>Hurr I made 15% returns this year with my diversified portfolio of funds, bonds and precious metals
Really? I can't believe we live in a world where you can literally make 10% per month day and swing trading and people still think 10% growth per annum is phenomenal. Just goes to show you how godfuckingawful most people are at managing their finances that they go this full retard conservative with it to the point of achieving practically zero profits on it.

>not this either
Yep. You're an idiot, like everyone who considers PM an "investment". Nobody ever got rich buying bricks of fucking gold and putting them in a safe.

>gold is a hedge and/or store of value.
Yes. Exactly like a battery is a store of electricity and doesn't produce it. Good luck getting infinite energy having batteries sitting around. And good luck making a profit buying ounces of shiny rock, you fucking pleb.

>to reject it completely is, to use your expression, "fucking literally retarded".
Unless...of course, literally everything you do is making you more money and it becomes a mindless waste of time for people who are fearing mad max will take their precious hamburgers.

[Anonymous No.666279]

>>666273
>I can't believe we live in a world where you can literally make 10% per month day and swing trading and people still think 10% growth per annum is phenomenal.
This is naive to the point of being painful.

[Anonymous No.666287]

>>666279
I literally made nearly 3% return today. I'll probably make nearly that again tomorrow. It's really not fucking hard to make money on the stock market. I think most people are just fucking idiots.

[Anonymous No.666288]

>>666287
Whatever you say buddy. Keep going.

[Anonymous No.666290]

>>666288
I see no reason to stop making money, if I can.

[Anonymous No.666293]

>>666290
By all means. Do it.

[Anonymous No.666296]

>>666287
literally 3%? wow
keep that up for a year and you'll be the richest person who ever lived

given that it's so easy, it's a wonder that every person alive is not a multibillionaire

literally 3%. i literally can't believe it. you're a miracle worker, anon.

[Anonymous No.666302]

>>666296
Don't get cocky, faggot. Have I lost money? Sure, but only when in retrospect I was doing something experimental or I just made a stupid mistake I should have known better than to make. The fact is most people lose their shit on the stock market because most people are fucking idiots. That's why you have shit like the pattern day trader rule. The vast majority of people are literally too stupid in this country to manage their own finances.

[Anonymous No.666316]

>>666302
k mr overaggressive anon, whatevs. do come back in a year when you're living on your private island and tell us how you did it.

[Anonymous No.666321]

>>666302
3% a day??

You will be a multimillionaire before the end of the year.

Post proof of your returns.

[Anonymous No.666322]

>>666321

Consistent returns that is. Not just your wins.

[Anonymous No.666324]

>>666316
I fully realize how aggressive my strategy is. I also realize it will change as I near my financial goals. But, I also know that people who think gold is an investment are fully unrealistic about how conservative they're being. Hoarding gold for some apocalyptic scenario is retarded, because it's the one scenario where gold has no value anyway and things like food and weapons would be worth infinitely more. There is no realistic scenario in which hoarding gold makes someone rich. It's literally just about feels.

>>666321
>>666322
Yeah, I get it, buddy. It's a process. We'll see if I meet my goals by year end.

[Anonymous No.666327]

>>666324
Post what you have so far then.

[Anonymous No.666337]

>>666327
I'm just going to post what I made today to back up my claims. I don't want to be a total flyby prick by making a claim and not supporting it at all, but I'm not revealing my entire trade history to anyone on the internet. Sorry, I like my privacy more than that. Here it is, heavily redacted. For context, the sale was a short sale that I held overnight. As you can see I sold at about $3.15 and picked it up at about $3.06 - I actually could have made a lot more today, but I did something mildly stupid and lost about 20% of what I could have made today, but no biggie. I got an acceptable take today. Yes, it's heavily redacted, but you can see it's the actual platform and you can calculate by the trade that the take was about 2.94% (I put about all my cash into it).

[Anonymous No.666339]

>>666337
Shit, forgot image.

[Anonymous No.666341]

>>666324
>I fully realize how aggressive my strategy is.

it's not your strategy that's aggressive, anon

> But, I also know that people who think gold is an investment are fully unrealistic about how conservative they're being.

nope

> Hoarding gold for some apocalyptic scenario is retarded

i am sure there might be one or two people who do that, but that does not describe the majority of gold investors. it is certainly not the reason i own some.

> It's literally just about feels.

nope

i suspect you are not actually a very experienced investor. in fact i know this, because no experienced investor would boast about a 3% gain in one day. my portfolio goes up and down by that amount regularly. it is just noise.

i also suspect you are probably very young and naive. here is a tip for you: learn about asset allocation. do this before you lose everything. there is a chance that you are one of those 0.000001% of people who will get lucky every time on the stock market and make billions. however i think that is unlikely.

[Anonymous No.666350]

>>666341
>nope
I'm not backing down on this. Gold is just a pop culture token for libertarians and various other fiscal conservatives. Period.

>i am sure there might be one or two people who do that, but that does not describe the majority of gold investors. it is certainly not the reason i own some.
Don't you get it though? That's the entire point. That would literally be the ONLY scenario in which hoarding gold really mattered, other than a fiat currency collapse, which is NOT going to realistically happen and even if it did, it wouldn't matter if you had any fucking sense anyway. There are far better ways to retain value through a financial event than hoarding gold. And the only event in which hoarding gold would really matter would be a total and utter collapse of all fiat on Earth, which if that happens, brother you have other fucking problems on your hand. The thing is, any scenario in which gold retaining currency matters is invalidated because the event is so bad that gold won't retain value anyway.

>nope
Yes, it really is.

>i suspect you are not actually a very experienced investor. in fact i know this, because no experienced investor would boast about a 3% gain in one day. my portfolio goes up and down by that amount regularly. it is just noise.
Again, you are missing the point. Your portfolio goes up and down by that amount because you're a buy-and-hold idiot. It's not noise if it's profit. When my portfolio goes up 3%, those are GAINS IN CASH. When yours does, it really is just meaningless noise, and you're just missing opportunity.

>learn about asset allocation. do this before you lose everything.
I arleady know about asset allocation. I CHOOSE the strategy I have in order to make a strong push into a financial target area. Once I'm there, I'll settle down a bit. But I'll never be so fucking idiotically conservative I start buying bonds or gold.

[Anonymous No.666351]

>>666350
gold retaining value*, not currency

[naturalbornhustla No.666377]

I believe there will always be those who rise to the top.

So even in a SHTF scenario, there will be people who will own, hold, or acquire land.

They will still hold and/or will acquire influence, maybe more, maybe less - they will have guns, food, ammo, bunkers, influence, power, books, information, etc they will still want shiny things.

For the same reasons they want them now.
Diamonds and gems ave no fucking value either, they have a cost, but their perceived value is higher.
But hey also have applications and qualities which gage them their original value.

Consider that movie - 'The Book Of Eli'
-both good and bad people were trying to get their hands on one book, because it held wisdom and a means of influence, words with power.

Other things were traded too, but jewellery and such will always be attractive, and gold and silver have basic and advanced qualities and applications.

If I had all that stuff, or even what I have, I would still trade silver, gold, etc but would still want to keep some.

Trade and barter will still exist.

How would the top 5% show off or feel good again?

You think that innate human quality will just disappear and it's just GUNS and FOOD, then practical items...

Tl;dr - listen to what you are saying -

>>Things that had worth before our current system was in place, will no longer have any worth after our current system is removed

I don't think so, Tim.

Because most people will be too hungry or aggressive or desperate etc
Most people in the world are like that now!

Most people, in fact, wouldn't have the luxury to chat on a forum of an evening....

[Anonymous No.666398]

>>666339

That looks dangerous.

Best of luck.

[Anonymous No.666410]

>>666398
Meh, not unless the company goes under, and I've heard no such news lately. When I have more cash I'll be daytrading in chunks instead of with 100% of my cash at a time. I've pretty carefully selected the companies I trade with. It's high risk, high reward. But my approach isn't totally unsafe by any measure. And the wonderful thing about day and swing trading is that you can literally make so much in such a short period that even if you nuke your portfolio (which I don't see myself doing anytime soon realistically) you can recoup your losses pretty fast, so long as you didn't lose like millions or something, which I wouldn't since I don't have that much. I'm not trading with rent money or anything, so anything I make on the market is pure profit also, so I'm good.

[Anonymous No.666452]

>>666410

See that's the key problem. You haven't heard any news lately and by the time you do, it will be too late. Penny stocks are thinly traded and are the biggest targets of stock promoters and manipulators. There is an incredibly high chance of losing your shirt.

Protip: You will never get to the news first. Even if you are part of the company in question, you may never receive a heads up.

If there are shifty auditing tactics taking place within the balance sheets of companies currently within the S&P 500 index (there are), how can you ever have faith in the madness of a penny stock? Thousands have tried. Millions. Tens of millions. All have lost some or everything. Every now and then, someone make a cool buck or two. Pure gambling, luck, and speculation. Dangerous.

Protip: You can never be completely sure of a company's balance sheet. Accounting manipulation happens. Diversification is key.

Having any money in a speculative penny stock is one of the biggest risks in trading (you are not investing).

Keep this up and in 10 years you will realize that you could have been a millionaire in 15-20 years rather than trying a get-rich-quick scheme that will put you miles behind.

Good day to you.

[Anonymous No.666485]

>>666350
whatever, anon. when you get rich with your shitty penny stocks, consider spending some of the money on anger management classes.

i'm off to look at my shiny metal now.

p.s. try not to lose everything tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.666506]

>>663383
That's what I'm waiting for. I want one of those Chinese Pandas. So kawaii ^-^ especially the 2014 edition.

[Anonymous No.666578]

>>661623
the people that keep their precious metals in a bank vault without actual insurance on the money poses the same amount of risk as keeping it in your house, plus if society ever did collapse, the banks won't give you your precious metals back. if you're going to store your precious metals in a bank, make sure that there are insured up to a certain point.

precious metals are not FDIC insured, the bank must provide the insurance for the metals.

[Anonymous No.666599]

>>666324
>some apocalyptic scenario

It doesn't have to be the end of the world. Gold can store a lot of value in a small amount of space. It is instantly recognizable. If one is fleeing from war, gold serves as a valuable bribe for border guards or startup capital when one reaches the promised land. It is not such a bad idea to have a tiny amount of your worth in gold. Kilos don't make sense unless you're starting your own central bank.

[Anonymous No.666867]

>>666452
>See that's the key problem. You haven't heard any news lately and by the time you do, it will be too late.
That's true of literally every stock you can trade.

>There is an incredibly high chance of losing your shirt.
Not likely. That company has been around for over 2 decades and they're not doing badly.

>Diversification is key.
Yes, I get it. Right now, I'm not terribly worried about it. In a month or two, I'll begin diversifying. If I lose much in that time, oh well, I don't have anything in that will kill me to lose. I'm good for now.

>(you are not investing).
Yes, that's why I'm actually making money. No risk, no gain, buddy.

>Keep this up and in 10 years you will realize that you could have been a millionaire in 15-20 years rather than trying a get-rich-quick scheme that will put you miles behind.
NOONE is going to go from zero to millionaire in 15 years by tradtional investing. Noone. The gains are simply not significant enough. If you start with say $5000 and make 15% return per year, at the end of 30 years, fuck 15, you'd only have $331,058.86. And that's fucking pathetic. Sure, if you're working a steady job and supplementing your income in a myriad of ways, it'll be more, but that entire train of logic is fucking stupid and pedantic. I don't know how the hell you think a person can go from 0 to millionaire in even 30 years doing shit your way. It's not even really that safe. People lose jobs, even investing you can lose your entire portfolio. And buy-and-hold isn't really a way to make money on the stock market. I personally know buy-and-holders who've lost tens of thousands because they didn't manage their finances on a faster basis than selling after holding for no less than a year and the company went bankrupt while they were sitting on their ass.

[Anonymous No.666870]

>>666599
God damn, goldbugs are so fucking stupid.

>It doesn't have to be the end of the world.
It literally does have to be at least a partially apocalyptic scenario though. That's the problem in the logic. Gold isn't traded as currency in anything OTHER than primitive situations. And in those situations, it's only the nobility who'll be doing so anyway. And even then, practical items will still generally be more lucrative.

>Gold can store a lot of value in a small amount of space.
Which is totally subjective.

>It is instantly recognizable.
As a shiny rock.

>If one is fleeing from war, gold serves as a valuable bribe for border guards or startup capital when one reaches the promised land.
Apparently, gold is the currency of choice for people who can't plan worth a damn. How are you going to be so fucking unprepared that you don't have a more viable escape plan than "wait for my country to totally collapse, then bribe a guard with a shiny rock"??

>It is not such a bad idea to have a tiny amount of your worth in gold.
It's an absolutely foolish, ludicrous, overwrought and unnecessary idea which serves no real purpose outside of the paranoid fantasies of apocalyptic libertarians.

Gold is just a shiny fucking rock that causes dragon sickness in idiots.

[Anonymous No.666875]

>>666867
>NOONE is going to go from zero to millionaire in 15 years by tradtional investing. Noone. The gains are simply not significant enough. If you start with say $5000 and make 15% return per year, at the end of 30 years, fuck 15, you'd only have $331,058.86. And that's fucking pathetic.

Current principal: 10000
Annual addition: 22000
Years to grow: 20
Interest rate: 7%
Compound interest 1 time annually

Future value: 1,003,730.73

Get a stem degree. Get a stem job. Learn to invest (index funds make everything simple). The above contributions are easily accomplished with a stem salary. 15 years doesn't require much more annual addition (especially as the stem salary rises through the years)

[Anonymous No.666876]

>>666875
Why are you bothering to reply to him? Just let him do his thing. Some lessons can only really be learned from experience.

[Anonymous No.666878]

>>666876
Agreed.

[Anonymous No.666890]

>>666875

Either way, 20 years for 1 million is pretty bad. 1 million doesn't get you far these days

[Anonymous No.666892]

>>666867
>If you start with say $5000 and make 15% return per year, at the end of 30 years, fuck 15, you'd only have $331,058.86.

Who invests only $5,000 in their lifetime?

[Anonymous No.666913]

>>666875
>>666876
You people are literally idiots. Most of that money was made through a standard career, not investing.

>>666890
Also this. 1 million is shit. What are you going to do, buy exactly one house? Faggots. None of you know shit about anything. You're just using tired overly conservative strategies that keep people living mediocre lives. Enjoy your golf at 70.

>>666892
Ok, that's the first reasonable counter I've been given so far, and yes, you're correct. But the fact is, as already stated, a million is shit money and most of it in this scenario is actually coming from being a wage slave selling your labor for decades. That's not fucking becoming rich investing. That's being a useless workhorse plebeian shit.

[Anonymous No.666927]

>>666913
Well, not most, technically by those calculations, but still, way too much of that growth is just from grinding away at a job. Having slavery monopolize your life until the only time you achieve freedom over your time is when you're geriatric is stupid.

[Anonymous No.666939]

>>666913
>5000*1.03^500 = 13bn
>calling other people retarded

[Anonymous No.666949]

>>666927
hey mr high roller threepercenter is still here. still baiting people i see. how's the gambling going today?

[Anonymous No.667038]

>>666949
Got complacent and missed open by 2 minutes and my chance to sell at the day's high, so now I have to wait and take lower profits for the day. I hate when I do stupid shit like that. I'll turn a profit, but it won't be as high as I wanted because I got lazy for two minutes.

[Anonymous No.667189]

>>666870
>Gold is just a shiny fucking rock that causes dragon sickness in idiots

And nothing else?

Why do central banks bother with it at all? They are clearly intelligent organizations, well-versed in all the modern world's valuables, yet they waste valuable space and money keeping the stupid shiny stuff. Why don't they just sell off all their hordes for more useful things? Is it purely tradition that compels them? Why not free themselves from such a constricting, archaic instrument as bullion? Are they the ultimate goldbugs?

[Anonymous No.667192]

>>667189
>Why do central banks bother with it at all?
Tradition and it's a deep market.
>Why not free themselves from such a constricting, archaic instrument as bullion?
Many countries basically have. It's a really minor part of the balance sheet.

[Anonymous No.667209]

>>667192
>it's a deep market

Of just gold bugs? Who is buying this stuff?

[Anonymous No.667411]

>>667189

>central banks

Gold reserves usually make up a very small portion of the global reserves, around 10% (roughly $12T of forex reserves vs. $1.3T of gold reserves). This is because the only countries that really acquire a lot of gold are wealthy, first-world nations with strong currencies that don't actually need currency reserves in the first place. By contrast, much of the world's currency reserves are held by poorer and developing nations that may actually have to defend their currency against devaluations or sharp moves (like, for instance, Russia or China) and they hold liquid currencies that they can sell in a pinch, like dollars or euros.

[Anonymous No.668044]

>If you have physical gold (or silver), what do you do with it?

I'm a white bloke who travels about the middle east. I keep 3 or so 1 oz silver coins hidden in my shoe in case I ever get snatched by Islamic extremists/ISIS. The idea is to kneel down and offer a coin saying "Jizya".

I figure it's the only shot I got out of getting out of that situation.

"O ye who believe! Truly the Pagans are unclean; So let them not, After this year of theirs, Approach the Sacred Mosque. And if ye fear poverty, Soon will Allah enrich you, If He wills, out of His bounty, For Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise.

Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book (i.e., Jews and Christians), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. (Quran, 9:28-29)"

[Anonymous No.668864]

>>668044
you missionary in tunisia? even jizya cant help. they have oil.

[Anonymous No.668885]

>>668044
they'll take your coins and behead you

[Anonymous No.668890]

why are rounds slightly cheaper than bars if they're the same weight?

[Anonymous No.668894]

>>668890
Production costs? Demand?