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2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/biz/ - Business & Finance

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File: 702 KB, 856x3224, 1422917362846.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636294 No.636294 [Reply] [Original]

How true is this image /biz/?

>> No.636295

It doesn't take their liabilities into account, so not very. The more relevant figure to have used against net income would be total equity.

>> No.636313

Oh yeah, that's not to mention that people don't want to invest in a company that's consistently cash flow negative. Owners would be better off liquidating the company in that situation.

>> No.636461

>>636295

Will Sony go bankrupt any time soon though?

Or is it typical hyperbole nonsense?

>> No.636483

>>636461
In the near future, I think it's more likely that you would just see more assets / divisions being sold off or possibly a spin-off.

A business that doesn't make money can't survive but for so long. A corporation has a legal responsibility to serve its shareholder's interests first and foremost. Sometimes shutting down is the right way to do that.

>> No.636487

>>636483

>In the near future, I think it's more likely that you would just see more assets / divisions being sold off or possibly a spin-off.

This, though I think this is all a semantic issue, as to most of the 12-year-olds over on /v/, selling or closing the PlayStation brand is the same thing as Sony going bankrupt, just as they would think it were Microsoft going belly-up if Xbox hit the same trouble.

In reality Sony has far too many lines of business (in comfortable sectors, such as finance and entertainment) to be tanked by their console division.

>> No.636502

>>636294

Sony is a Japanese company, and corporate culture over there is... different... than here. In the US, Sony would have been bought, broken up, and had the various divisions spun apart years ago. In Japan, that's not the case (they loooove them some inefficient conglomerates), and so Sony is basically an incredibly profitably life insurance company (writing Japs life insurance policies is great business, they die at like age 95) subsidizing a bunch of autistic man-children and allowing them to continue their vidya addiction.

With the way Abenomics, the yen, and the Nikkei are going, Sony is actually in a pretty good long-term position, since the investments made by Finance will explode in value while they have a steadily-increasing stream of hard currency from overseas sales to counteract a falling yen. I wouldn't call it a "buy", especially since there many other attractive companies in Japan, but it's not about to go bankrupt anytime soon.

>> No.636508

>>636294

>>636294
Not true at all. Last January Sony was threatened delisting when their stock hit junk status. Investors have begged Sony to split of Entertainment from Hardware and to sell off all hardware divisions that aren't Errecsion.

Sony just sold off SOE yesterday.

Sony has been in desperation mode selling off assets since late 2010. Their worst move was selling off their TV production division which was basically their majority stake in Samsung. They'll never recover from that poor planning.

>> No.636511

>>636461
our entire global financial system is based on debt. so (maybe)no, and no.

>> No.636532

>>636294
From what I have read though, their books are a mess and the financial picture we see today is probably not nearly true. Shit they had to sell off their headquarters.

>> No.636541

>-G-G-Guys Sony is crumbling I swear! Why else would they sell this dead loss making division for hundreds of millions.

WRONG

>Gaming and Networking
profit
>Imaging Products & Solutions
profit
>Home Entertainment and Sound
profit
>Devices
profit
>Music
profit
>Financial Services
profit
>Movies
flat
>Mobile
loss

Not only that but Devices became Sony's new most profitable division, beating Finance.

Revenue was also up for the quarter overall.

All of Sony’s key businesses performed well, turning a profit in the last quarter, Pictures being an exception (it broke even), the loss came from an impairment charge in Mobile, where they lost over a billion, because they bet big on China, and lost that bet. If Sony did not make that bet in China they would have posted a profit of around 780 million, and it will only be another quarter or so until the stock in China is fully written off.

But go ahead and shitpost and drown yourself in bullshit because you're all fucking morons who parrot bullshit because you are indoctrinated by the competition.

Source: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/14q2/

Why does /v/ insist on knowing anything about business and economics?

>> No.636543

>>636541
It's time to blow this fabricated fanboy bullshit right out of the water.

This macro was made by some uneducated fucktard who was laughed of /biz/ the second he posted it.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/er.html

SONY'S OWN FINANCIAL REPORT proves their debt and liability exceeds the total value of the company

BLOWN
THE
FUCK
OUT

Sony fans are so afraid and so desperate they're LYING about the truth that's available to anyone with a computer.

BLOWN
THE
FUCK
OUT

>> No.636551

>>636543

What exactly did you source me?

They are making profit, what's your point?

Did you really just copy and paste that from /v/ and expect to be taken seriously?

>> No.636554

>>636551
> being taken seriously on 4chan

What?

>> No.636557

>>636554

What was your post meant to show? You said it 'blows out the fabricated fanboy bullshit out the water'? Did you even read the source?

Your own source contains files that coincide with what I said (Sony overall are profiting).

What's your point? Did you even read the source or simply Ctrl + C / Ctrl + V and hope for the best?

>> No.636558

>>636557
I can see you're a really serious guy here.

>> No.636559

>>636541
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/14q2_sony.pdf
Operating loss, current liabilities greater than current assets, and negative cash flow. I don't care either way, but stop trying to spin.

>> No.636563

>>636559

When is this dated? I'm talking about now, they have started to profit.

http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/14q2/

>> No.636566

>>636563
They're both for the same period. Q2 2014.

>> No.636567

>>636558
Not him but if you're going to come to /biz/ and discuss a company like this, you shouldn't be surprised if they answer you earnestly.

I'm not even on this board, I came in here to see them make people like you feel as stupid as you are.

>>636487
>In reality Sony has far too many lines of business (in comfortable sectors, such as finance and entertainment) to be tanked by their console division.

This alone should be enough to tell you that Sony isn't going anywhere no matter how much you like or dislike them. Hell, I don't even like Sony. But that doesn't make any of this any less true.

>> No.636569

>>636567
>I'm not even on this board, I came in here to see them make people like you feel as stupid as you are.
I feel really stupid, damn

>> No.636572

>>636567


Are they currently profiting or not?

>> No.636575

>>636572
According to their most recent release, no, they're not. They had an operating loss of ¥85.6 billion for the quarter.

>> No.636592

>>636294

Was this made by a retarded person?

>> No.636606

>>636592

It's accurate in some areas, and completely off in others.

While I agree with the message that Sony aren't going anywhere anytime soon and neither is Playstation

>> No.636612

>>636606

It's not accurate at all. Certainly not keeping with the expected results of the upcoming 2014 fiscal reports.

You're clearly, very uninformed. You obviously also didn't know that Sony just delayed their yearly fiscal reports to March just because of the financial chaos going on within the company.

>Playstation

You can go back to /v/ no kid. You aren't wanted here.

>> No.636616

>>636563
>http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/financial/fr/viewer/14q2/
Your very own link is showing negative operation income

>> No.636624

Headed for bankruptcy and asset liquidation with no chance for recovery.

I honestly feel bad for anyone who backed this company and even those who bought Sony products in the past year.

Kaz Hirai will gut this company. He will be revealed as nothing more than an opportunistic corporate raider. He paid himself millions while he cannibalized his own company. Absolutely disgusting.

>> No.636625

>>636294

It's true in the fact Sony isn't going bankrupt anytime soon, that much is true.

Also, stay in your containment board.

>> No.636630

absolutely no hope for recovery.

Will shutter their doors before the end of 2015.

>> No.636631

>>636294
Sony going bankrupt?
Not a chance.
PlayStation division?
Maybe.

Their videogame division gives them some profit, but they could sell it for a shitton of money.
PlayStation and Sony will stay alive, but probably in different ways of what they are now, and maybe even as separate entities.

>> No.636640

>>636294

Sony is already bankrupt.

>> No.636643

>company sells out division
>OMG THEY'RE BANKRUPT LOL

/v/ is full of morons.

Sure the image has a few minor discrepancies, but the overall message that Sony isn't actually going bankrupt anytime soon is true.

>> No.636646

>>636643

>/v/ is full of morons.

They somehow manage to be dumber than /tv/.

>> No.636648

>>636643

This image has MAJOR discrepancies and isn't even close to the truth.

You need to leave /biz/ forever. You're clearly some shit posting /v/tard trying to rope /biz/ into your latest console wars shit posting topic.

>> No.636652

>>636648

>MAJOR discrepancies

Like?

>> No.636653

>>636648

Not major enough to counter the hearsay that Sony going bankrupt.

>> No.636654

>>636648

Still does not mean they are going bankrupt.

>> No.636661

>>636648


Still waiting on the discrepancies..

Only ones I see are:

>lack of mentioning liabilities
>comparing revenue to income / assets rather than equity

Everything else looks on point to me.

What else is there?

>> No.636663

>>636653

Major enough to put its durability as a company into question. Total equity for Sony is just shy of $22 billion.

The good news: Sony's long term debt is low relative to its other liabilities, clocking in at around $8 billion, so if Sony can make it through what's right in front of them, they're pretty clear.

The bad news: Sony has really high short-term debt, some $63 billion if I'm reading this table correctly, which means it's going to have to issue more stock or sell off branches of its company to scrape by.

>> No.636664

>>636661

Nobody cares about you, this board is a little harder to troll than /v/

>> No.636665

>>636661

Nothing is on point. And stop using your mobile device to change your ID just so you can agree with yourself. It's getting pathetic. You can't even disguise your posting style.

Go back to /v/ where you belong.

>> No.636668

>>636665

>mobile to change your ID
>literally the same faggot on /v/ getting BTFO

Dude..... Just stop, the majority of /biz/ disagrees with your 'Sony is going bankrupt tomorrow' nonsense.

Just stop it.

>> No.636669

>>636664

and yet you name none.

>> No.636670

>>636668

What /v/ topic are you talking about?

>The majority

I don't see any majority agreement here.

>> No.636673

>>636668
The closest thing I've seen to someone saying "Sony is going bankrupt tomorrow" is >>636630 and >>636640 with one post each.

Sony is not going bankrupt tomorrow, but neither are they a healthy company that will last over a century at the rate they are going. I wouldn't definitely not go long SNE.

>> No.636675

>>636665
>>636670

Hi, just wanted to say you're an idiot. You got told, and now you've concocted some evil scheme in which 10 people are on their PCs with smarphones ready, just to prove you wrong (and it's not twenty people who just think you're straight up retarded). Let it go.

>> No.636677

>>636487
>>636502
>>636511
>>636567
>>636606
>>636625
>>636631
>>636643
>>636646
>>636652
>>636653
>>636654
>>636661

These are the only ones actually contributing in a neutral manner.

Here are the ones saying they will go bankrupt:

>>636543 (copypasta)
>>636624 (copypasta that was on /v/, probably samefag with the 'mobile user changes id' guy)
>>636630 (samefag as last)

It's the same faggot saying:

>bankrupt, no chance for recovery

Typical hyperbole /v/ nonsense

>> No.636678

Sony has been circling the drain for years. No one should be surprised by their long, slow decline into bankuptcy. It was unavoidable.

>> No.636679

>>636678

Yeah but the /v/tards are still in serious denial over the subject.

>> No.636680
File: 22 KB, 227x294, 32342342.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636680

>>636679

Dude, you are the /v/tard getting BTFO in /v/ and in /biz/ right now.

Holy fuck are you pathetic

>> No.636681

>>636679

That's their problem. I don't care about kids toys. This is /biz/. Sony is ruined as a company.

>> No.636684

>>636677
In what way, shape, or form am I not neutral?

>> No.636685

Atul Goyal from Jefferies LLC was absolutely right about this company.

>“For them (Sony), salvation is an exit from electronics,” Goyal said in an interview last week with Bloomberg Television. “If there’s any buyer whatsoever in the electronics business -- and there might still be some today for TV and others -- get out now.”

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-02-09/sony-woes-seen-prelude-to-loeb-inspired-breakup-real-m-a

>> No.636686

>>636684

Missed yours.

>> No.636687

>>636685

Any smart investor dumped this bankrupt titanic long ago.

>> No.636688

>>636687

You mean like Daniel Loeb. He got out while the getting was good. Bet he's happy now.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/activist-investor-daniel-loeb-sells-742634

>> No.636692

Sony's debt and liability is the veritable millstone around their neck dragging them down to certain bankruptcy.

>> No.636694

>>636688
>>636692

Very, very harsh.

>> No.636697

>>636294

Clearly made by some uninformed grade school kid.

>> No.636699
File: 228 KB, 843x771, 1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636699

>>636294
>it will take 'till year 2133 for Sony to go bankrupt
>based on these 2 red rectangles we drew

opinion tossed

>> No.636700

>>636694
>>636692
>>636688
>>636685

>gets blown the fuck out
>Starts talking to himself

>> No.636701

>>636688
>>636692
>>636694
>>636697

We get it. You think they're fucked. Damn.

>> No.636707
File: 3 KB, 125x95, 1422923053554s.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636707

>>636701

>still talking to himself

>> No.636708 [DELETED] 
File: 74 KB, 640x960, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636708

Here is how you change IDs on /biz/

First grab your mobile device and put it into airplane mode.

>> No.636711
File: 2.79 MB, 328x321, 1422875318146.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636711

>>636688
>>636692
>>636694
>>636697
>samefagging this hard

>> No.636712 [DELETED] 
File: 88 KB, 640x960, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636712

>>636708

Now while you're in airplane mode be sure to clear your cache.

>> No.636714

>>636711

He either:

>Is screencapping this and going to crop out the ID to make it look like /biz/ thinks Sony will go bankrupt (luckily i've screencapped this thread already incase this desperate cuck tries it)
>is literally sperging out from being BTFO so much

>> No.636715

>>636688
>>636692
>>636697
>>636699
>>636701
This is so fucking funny this nigga man

>> No.636716 [DELETED] 
File: 125 KB, 640x960, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636716

>>636712

Now simply repeat the process and you can have unlimited Unique IDs

You can even beat post timers if you are fast

>> No.636717 [DELETED] 

>>636708
>>636712
>>636716

Thanks a lot faggot! You literally just ruined /biz/.

Fuck you. Seriously, you Sony /v/tards are the fucking worst!

>> No.636721 [DELETED] 

>>636717

Don't be mad bro. I'm just trying to level the sting field for everyone.

Jeez

BTW, my technique can also be used to evade all bans. Just make sure you're not using a captcha pass when you're trolling

>> No.636722

dear /biz/
sorry for this thread
sincerely /v/

>> No.636723 [DELETED] 

>>636721

I don't need to evade bans fuck head.

>> No.636724 [DELETED] 

>>636717
>>636721
You guys are obviously the same person come on

>> No.636726 [DELETED] 

>>636724

Fuck you faggot. This is obviously you're doing. You're just trying to shit up our board after your topic was mocked and ruined. You /v/ tards are the fucking worst.

>> No.636728 [DELETED] 

>>636726

Calm down Sony bro. I'm just trying to help you out.

>> No.636730 [DELETED] 

How come /biz/ gets IDs


They are seriously needed on /v/

>> No.636731 [DELETED] 

>>636728

Whatever faggot.

>> No.636732

>>636724

>What are Ids

>> No.636733 [DELETED] 

>>636730

Well as this shit bag has proven they clearly don't work and are completely useless.

>>636708
>>636712
>>636716

I fucking hate /v/ tards.

>> No.636735 [DELETED] 

>>636730
It was meant to prevent shilling.

>> No.636736 [DELETED] 

>>636733

hahaaha get mad faggot

Did your trolling not work on here

Go back to /v/

>> No.636737 [DELETED] 

>>636733

Hey now. Don't bd like that. I showed you a cool trick and this is how you replay me?

Are you angry because you're the only person who doesn't know how to change his ID?

>> No.636738 [DELETED] 

>>636737

Well everyone knows now.

>> No.636739 [DELETED] 

>>636733

I was wondering why /v/ was so calm

Here you are

>> No.636740 [DELETED] 

>>636736
>>636732

I think that >>636733 who has been talking to himself is using his computer to keep that id and he's arguing with his 10 different ids that he keeps resetting on his phone

>> No.636741 [DELETED] 

>>636740

You seem like an anally ravaged faggot

How many times do you take it up the ass daily?

>> No.636742 [DELETED] 

>>636741

You're a dick and you're clearing playing both sides of the fence to get people worked up.

>> No.636743
File: 46 KB, 600x400, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636743

>> No.636744 [DELETED] 

>>636502
>sonygger's being this desperate to find an excuse for Sony to continue onward

Yea, just like what happened with Sega right! Ohhhh.....

>> No.636748

>>636294
No, because that retard has aboslutely no fucking idea how much Sony actual has in equitable assets.

Add onto that the fact that the crude conjecture for how long it would take for them to go bankrupt is completely baseless.

Most of the people on /biz/ are retards who think they're the only ones who can read and interpret flow-charts.

What that pic doesn't say is that even if they do make money through their other avenues, that doesn't mean they won't pull support from other branches, including Sony Entertainment.

The reason that the "graph above" which doesn't include any data from "Sony Finance" or "Sony as a whole" is because it's not taking any of that into account, it's only shower their entertainment base, which is what they're using to support their consoles and gaming audiences.

In short; the Playstation brand definitely is going somewhere if Sony falls behind in this generation of consoles since next year we're likely to see new competitors enter the ring as gaming becomes more wide-spread and affordable than it's ever been. Nintendo is still dominating the hand-held market, which removes that avenue of success from Sony unless they do something drastic and expensive, and Microsoft continues dominating consoles with their superior business savvy.

Sorry that you weeb-tards can't accept basic common sense.

>> No.636750

>>636294
Seems to indicate to me that theyll just close the electronics branch and focus on finance. But...blackberry turned around

>> No.636754

I don't even know what is happening anymore.

>> No.636766

Don't mind me, just looking if I got an ID close to moot or kek.

>> No.636769
File: 102 KB, 640x427, 138851398425711366901107337.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636769

>>636766
>mfw this entire thread

>> No.636773

>>636769
>gosty
2spooky4me

>> No.636818 [DELETED] 
File: 81 KB, 423x621, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
636818

>> No.636844

>>636294
>what is inflation?

>> No.636855

>>636744

Sega wasn't a massive media conglomerate like Sony is. Even then, Sega is still alive today.

Stop thinking in /v/'s terms, Sony itself is not going anywhere if only because of their insurance profits. Sony existed before the Playstation was created, and will exist after it is retired. If anything, Nintendo is far more comparable to Sega because Nintendo just makes toys and videogames.

>> No.636857

>>636744
Stick to just video games. You're too retarded for anything else.

>> No.636858

Wrong board?

>> No.637415

>>636748

>and Microsoft continues dominating consoles with their superior business savvy.

Just stop

>> No.637877

>>636844
fuck off dobson

>> No.638142

Sony stock up 11% today, over $26 per share for the first time since mid 2011.

>> No.638202

>>636487
And the PS4 is doing pretty well isn't it?

The PS3 cost a fortune to research, develop and produce and they sold each unit at a major loss the first few years it was out. That's reflected in the graphs in the OP.
The PS4 on the other hand has been profitable from the start, and very popular.