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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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614156 No.614156 [Reply] [Original]

WHAT THE FUCK IS HAPPENING WITH THE SWISS FRANC

>> No.614162
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614162

>>614156
>>614156
SNB flipped their shit because of ass fucked Euro.

They want fucking cheap foreign goods which they can not have when Euro is fucking worthless and their CHF is pegged to the Euro.

>> No.614165
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614165

>>614162
So they unpegged it.

(before when there was high demand of CHF and people wanted to sell EUR the SNB was simply printing more CHF and took the Euros.
At this way the supply of Swiss Francs was constant and price just stayed the same.
Now they stopped printing when demand is high and CHF supply actually goes down when people buy it.)

>> No.614177
File: 103 KB, 1041x711, smi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
614177

Yesterday the ECB got the green light to print money without limit from a judge. The Swiss economy would be totally dependent on Draghi's decisions with a CHF pegged to the EUR. Now that the US Dollar is stronger it was a good time to get out.

>> No.614182

>>614177
Would have been nice if they made the decline a little softer. Crashing the Franc all the way from 1USD to 0.75 in seconds wiped out quite a few people.

Hundreds of Billions in damage.

>> No.614183

Currency wars


America vs the world

>> No.614194

>>614165
>>614177
It wasn't just EU, a month ago the SNB had to interfere harshly because of inflows from russia. The collapse in eastern europe forced money into CHF, the SNB claimed it would defend the peg if it continued but we all know how that turned out.

>> No.614199

>>614182

You're right. On the other hand they always said this was just temporary. The SNB was buying time (buying EUR) for the exporting companies to adjust to the new situation. They can't complain now.

>> No.614200

>>614156
EURO CURRENCY IS DEAD! EUROPEAN UNION IS DEAD! US CURRENCY WILL FOLLOW! BUY SHEKELS AND SWISS FRANKS! SELL DOLLARS & EUROS. QUICKLY!

>> No.614210

>>614200
ok

>> No.614213

>>614156
>>614177
>>614169
Should I?

>> No.614215

>>614213
It's a 1000 bucks jesus christ. I spent more on drinks last saturday. Just take your shitty money and buy somehting nice.

>> No.614217

>>614215
That's what I plan on doing
(Also we hungarians are poorfags, doctors make like 1000$ a month.)

>> No.614219

according to a guy on Squawk Box, there is a lot of polish and hungarian debt that was taken out in swiss francs.

this could really hurt those two countries.

>> No.614221

>>614219
Again hungarian guy here
A fuckload of people have their debt in swiss franc, I mean a fuckload.

>> No.614224

>>614221
Lol they just got fucked.

>> No.614228

>>614221
good luck, Hungarybro.

>> No.614239

Why did this make USD stronger in comparison to CHF?

>> No.614246

>>614239
It makes the CHF stronger compared to the USD if you knew to read a chart.

>> No.614250 [DELETED] 

>>614156
>Hurr durr

>>614246
Indeed, exchange rate from 1 to 0.75 CHF per dollar. How is this bad for them, again?

>> No.614252

>>614250
switzerland need to be able to sell competivly

>> No.614255
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614255

>>614156
>>614246
http://www.myforexchart.com/usd-chf-chart/

>>614252
I don't have an account at the moment, so I was double-checking before I said anything. It did indeed shoot up in value (the CHF).

But yeah, that's a point to consider for many countries. Then again, they can now import for cheaper, so that might be good for them as well.

>> No.614256

swiss here

sorry guys, but the euro sucks

>> No.614259

>>614255
import is less important than export in switzerland
>>614256
aye i'm swiss too

>> No.614261

>>614256
>>614259
Basel-Stadt master race checking in.

If you guys maybe took a look beyond your inbred mountain valleys you'd realize that WE ARE FUCKED. ABSOLUTELY FUCKED.


>b-but muh fränkli
>b-but muh uslender

>> No.614266

>>614255
what do you want to prove with your 5 year chart? would you bother looking at a one day chart please?

>> No.614268

>>614261
I know dude

>> No.614271

>>614268
what do we do now, ueli?

>> No.614272

>>614271
>what do we do know

aside from the obvious: GO TO GERMANY AND BUY CONSUMER GOODS YEAH YEAH FUCK ME YEAH

>> No.614273

don't worry faggots, it's automatic it's just that lots of stop losses were situated just below 1,20 so when it went down that they were all triggered. It will go back to normal and beyond in some time

>> No.614277

>>614271
that it's bad for our economy

>> No.614278

>>614261

>Basel-Stadt master race
Is that the one whose "brother canton" Basel-Landschaft doesn't even want to unite with after 200 years. Enjoy your high tax socialism.

>> No.614280
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614280

>tfw you live in germany and work in switzerland

>> No.614284

As someone who lives in Switzerland I will go shopping in Germany this weekend

>> No.614286

its not like it wasnt common knowledge there was a shitloads of stops below the peg. everyone knew that if the SNB didnt manage to defend the peg(or didnt care to defend it) the stop out would be massive. all of this was common knowledge mentioned MANY places by many people. yet many choose to be long eur/chf to collect scraps on the upside while risking their whole accounts if it went wrong. add to that a retail broker that tries to screw you as hard as possible all the time on fills and thats how you get lots of accounts in the negative and newbies freaking out.

>> No.614303

>>614156
I have fucking lost over 100k USD due to the fact, I've held all of my assets in US currency. FUCK US DOLLAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.614304

Swissfag here. But I am more or less a Financial illiterate. Living just across the Swiss French Border in Geneva on French soil. I pay my rent in Euros. How long can I except to stay the exchange rate like this? Is it something that will be over quickly or will it stay this way for the next years? I ask because I want to know if I should exchange the coming rents now to Euros, since my wages are paid in CHF.

>> No.614307

>>614304
I want to marry you, I need Swiss citizenship, I am a US citizen, what do I have to do? I had enough of US economy. My net worth is slightly over 700k USD, well now slightly below 600k USD.

>> No.614315

If i want to make vacation in the swiss, it cost now about 20% more for me (from germany), correct?

>> No.614321

>>614307

Unless you're a woman, it won't happen. Other than that, learn a profession that not a lot of Swiss people are trained in and try to get here.
As I said I am a Financial illiterate. Why did your assets lose Worth if you held them in USD? It's the CHF that lost its Worth this morning, isn't it?

>> No.614322

>>614315
You would have gotten 6 CHF for every 5 EUR. Now you'll only get ~5 CHF for every 5 EUR. So yeah.

>> No.614329

>>614321
Because they are only stocks, bonds, indexes, liquid cash, lending club P2P issues and my futures trading account, I am 100% liquid, no real estate, all in USD, I could have put very easily 75% of my net worth in CHF, even with the commissions and without a margin, it would be a bargain compared to what I have lost.

>> No.614333
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614333

You want your debt in YEN yen headed to $USDJPY 160-240

>> No.614336

>>614303
You are swiss?

>> No.614339

>>614336
American

>> No.614346
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614346

$WTIC $CL_F Crude Oil in $CHF

>> No.614347

>>614339
You do realise people like you (and I don't mean it negatively) is the reason why they stopped with this policy.

>> No.614366

Just buy € with your $ and wait until the exchange rates stabilizes again

>> No.614369

>>614347
Yes, I realize that, I have to learn from my mistake now. I will never trust US economy again, I will aslo probably emigrate soon and put all my assets into CHF, if possible. Look at SWIS, their income tax is well below 10% for individuals, in US I'm taxed up to 35% and now this, fuck it.

>> No.614389

>>614369
we got more taxes than you can even imagine

>> No.614390

>>614389
In Switzerland? I am only interested in income tax policy.

"In 2011, the federal income tax varied from a bracket of 1% (for single tax payers) and 0.77% (for married taxpayers) to the maximum rate of 11.5%. Individuals earning below 13,600 and couples earning below 27,000 Swiss francs were exempt. On cantonal level, tax rates varies heavily, Obwalden adapted a 1.8% flat tax on all personal income following a cantonal referendum in 2007. In most cantons, the rate is proportional with a maximum rate of 6.5% in Bern, whereas in Zurich it was 13% and in Geneva 17.58-.76 % (depending upon taxes as single or jointly)."

>> No.614401

>>614390
yup true about the income but there's a shitload of other tax to pay (and because it's not the USA you can't go around without them)
If you come in switzerland to work you will have to pay them just as regular swiss people
If it's just to establish yourself and party hard you get special treatment and blowjob from the country

>> No.614405

>>614401
I don't plan to come to Switzerland to work, I only trade on markets, stocks, bonds, indexes, futures, investing via Lending Club, that is about it, so only capital income, I would never get back in rat race again. So I am expecting a blowjob from Switzerland soon as you say.

>> No.614410

>>614333
>>614346
All those fucking indicators.

>> No.614413

>>614284
>implying I'm not doing this for the past 5 years
Quantity + Price + Quality is worth it

>> No.614416

>>614405
yep you will be taxed only on your expenses

>> No.614418

Perfect, now a 1kg of pasta is officially 2 euro in Switzerland while it's 70 cent in Germany.

>> No.614422

>>614413
>implying I do Chur-Germany to spare 1 euro / week
Seriosly, they have no Gruyere in Germany

>> No.614425

>>614416
That is absolutely amazing, since my only expenses are minimal. No social life, no real friends, no girl friend, I don't plan to get into those thinks unless I hit 40 and also over 2 000 000 CHF net worth. Yes, I might stay single until I die, no problem with that.

>> No.614428

>>614425
Well I'm not sure about what happen if you don't spend enough, I sugest you look it up before jizzing all over the place

>> No.614429

>>614428
What do you mean? I use escorts services, surely you have those in Switzerland as well at reasonable rate ~ 500 CHF / hour, but I am also very conservative in that way, only two to four times a month. Or a big vacation.

>> No.614430
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614430

>>614418
HAHAHA Burn in hell fucking mountain niggers
Nobody will be able to repay those expensive swiss loans now. All your banks will fail

>> No.614436

>>614429
Well I think those special treatment are great income-great spender kinda deal, but I might be wrong you should schearch yourself

>> No.614450

>>614410
>2015
>don't want to see into the future
goddamn i wish i was bullish on CHF
>>614333
i wish i can understand JPY but i suck in forex already.

>> No.614459

>>614284
>>614413

How do you deal with protectionist limits? Do you smuggle things in past customs or do you respect the quotas?

>> No.614462

>>614459
just bring ten friends with you, or family members

>> No.614471

>Investing in Swiss coins

>> No.614484
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614484

For all the woulda, coulda, shouldas you can short francs and buy CS USB etc.

>> No.614512

>>614429
buying swissfrancs would be a mistake now. Look how high it it. Invest in companies that import to switzerland like gazprom, edf, gdf, eon. Electricity oil and gas. They will go up long term for sure

Also: Gold liftoff in 3...2...1...

>> No.614514

>>614484
Why do you use so many indicators? Do you trade only based on technical analysis? I have not yet seen a single trader profitable in the long term doing it.

>> No.614516

>>614484
bought baer at -20%, ubs at -15% nov at -15% and abb at -16%.

Today was a good day.

Also my esocrts for next week in London just got 20% cheaper. Since i will change CHF in £ when i go.

>> No.614528

>>614516
What is the average rate for escort in London? Inner city area if possible. I have to spent this months profits somewhere, somehow.

>> No.614536

>>614528
about 300-500£/hour for a good one.

Which for me yesterday was 500-700.- and now its 400-600.-

Its not much. But given that it changed in one day i really cant complain.

>> No.614557

This is why I will never into Forex trading.

>> No.614560

>>614557
why? You couldve made big today. Dont hate the system learn it, react to it and beat it.

>> No.614564

>>614560
It feels too much like gambling and playing a guessing game to me.
I've tried doing research and practice simulators but shits so hard to follow

>> No.614566

>>614536
Thanks! Great rate! Decent escorts in US are overpriced compared to that. France, Germany and Austria is definitely cheaper, than UK, East Europe gets below $200/hour (but last time I had one there was in 2011, prices have maybe adjusted to western standards since then).

>> No.614567

>>614564
never say that stocks are gambling because they aren't. There is always a logical explanation behind it / reason. Not like roulette.

>> No.614568

>>614564
also seems like you just gave up instead of keeping to learn.

>> No.614574

>>614418
HAHAHAH

>> No.614578

>>614568
that's also true. Some people can motivate themselves to learn the system, but I can't help myself with that.
my plan was just using experts to spread my investment pool over a large portfolio instead of trying to learn it myself

>> No.614579

>>614578
point taken. Vanilla shares are as good as Forex just depends on what your interests are.

>> No.614589

>>614278
Fucking Basel-Stadt tried to enslave the poor Basel-Landschaft, so Landschaft had to stand up and burn down their stupid stone houses. Never forget! Never unite! Basel-Stadt is basically Zion.

>> No.614604

>>614589
I love Basel! It is the center of greed and power.

>> No.614616
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614616

>1993
>be austria
>be indistinguishable fron switzerland
>join europe!
>20 years later
>switzerland filthy rich
>austria failing

switzerland, anschluss plz!

>> No.614618

>>614567
You can't be serious. Human psychology is way less logical than simple stochastics like in roulette.
For example today the SNB announced that the Euro is fucked and can't be trusted anymore. The CHF gains 15% and the DAX and STOXX go up 1.5%. How can European indexes gain on such a day? What kind of explanation can you see behind this except for complete retardation.

>> No.614621

>>614616
Hey old friend Austria, why don't you join the Swiss Union? The EU sucks now and we have chocolate and 16 year old hookers.

>> No.614622

>>614621
funny fact: one part of austria tried to join switzerland back in 1919, the swiss said "fuck off".

>> No.614634

>>614622
Well wasn't Austria in 1919 joined forces with Slowenia or some other slav shithole? Swiss probably didn't want der Jugo to loot their precious land.

>> No.614656

Should I just sell my stocks and wait for this to blow over? Down .5% just today

>> No.614681

I've just recieved a new message from CME GROUP, CHF related, they are going to double margin requirements.

More info here: http://www.cmegroup.com/tools-information/lookups/advisories/clearing/files/Chadv15-015.pdf

>> No.614685

>>614681
You can expect to see the margin increase implemented at the close of US business on the following days:
(1) Thursday, January 15, 2015 - Margin requirement will double from its current rate
(2) Friday, January 16, 2015 - Margin requirement will triple from its current rate

>> No.614707

>>614685
HERE WE GO

>> No.614855
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614855

>>614219
>according to a guy on Squawk Box, there is a lot of polish and hungarian debt that was taken out in swiss francs.
>this could really hurt those two countries.

Pic related, Polish Stock Exchange banks subindex.

>> No.614861
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614861

>>614616
>Such is life in EU
Only winrars are gypsies and jews

>> No.614879

loaded up SP and DAX futures on instinct almost at the bottom,was sweating a little admittetly while it sank more and unrealized P/L went deep red a little further a bit more then whats comfortable but sure enough they bounced back right into my limit orders,great day for me..

>> No.614889

>>614156
should have put your francs in bitcoin at least you would have seen this coming

>> No.615021

>>614261
schwyzer here, fucking basel degenerate inbred scum, may the pope call out for a crusade against you protestant fucks

>> No.615077

>>614259
Is living in the german areas viable if you only know english?

>> No.615092

>>615077
..you can know perfect German, and not understand a fucking word of Schweischerisch - accent (depending upon area) varies from non-understandable to the utterly fucking ridiculous. I live in Germany, and Swiss TV shown here has to get subtitled (yup, into German) - go figure..

>> No.615095

>>615077
Sure, as long as you're willing to learn at least some basic german. We don't mind speaking english/french/italian/spanish but really appreciate it if you try at least.
Almost everyone between 12 and 40 is able to understand and speak basic english and a good number is on a advanced/proficiency level...

>> No.615100

>>615095
Of course, I plan to completely learn the local language if my plans materialize, but I was considering going for a reconnaissance trip of sorts beforehand. Beside, if push comes to shove, it doesn't hurt to have potential outs from dangerous in the 1st world sense countries.

>> No.615109

>>615100

Yeah, I agree with >>615095

It might be a bit hard to learn to understand all the different dialects. Some people say it's easier to learn standard german first, others say start with swiss german directly.

If you have troubles figuring out how shit works here i can always reccomend englishforum dot ch.

Or post your skype nick and i'll add you if you have questions.

>> No.615117

>>615092
same is true for austria or liechtensein, I even see german tv put subtexts on Saxon, North Frisia or Bavarian dialects. Yes our day to day language (often used in tv interviews/docus) is a horrible dialect but we are able able to speak basic german.

>>615100
Gottcha, well as long as you stick to the urban/tourist areas you have absolutely no problem to get around with english. I don't know how often we picked up some english/american guys and took with us to clubbing or showing around the city and I made some friends for life from it.

>> No.615162

I've been watching the Frank plunge, but today I watched it shoot up to over $1.17 to the Frank.

The hell?

>> No.615894

>>614156

>eastern yuropoor
>mortgage on my house in franks

welp, looks like I'll be living in the streets if my country doesn't do like Hungary and converts

>> No.615900

>>615894
Let me guess, Poland?

Why do people do this anyway? Low interest rates I guess, but did nobody explain these people what currency risk is?

>> No.615909

>>615894
Why?

>> No.616011

>>615900

Romania

My parents decided to renovate the house and buy a car.

I was against the loan, but then again, I was just a teen, no one listened to me.

And no, most laymen are ignorant of currency risks, and bankers never inform their customers.

What's worse is that the central bank (BNR) and the Parliament are both dodging the issue, shifting the responsibility like in a tennis match.

Most loans in my country were done in 2007, and things seemed OK then. Everyone and their mother took loans.

Oh well, it sucks, but what can you do when your family members make shitty financial decisions?
Guess I'll have to look to rent an apartment and spend most of my savings.

>> No.616017

Currently long on EUO, DDR and YCS. Short on FXE.

Good call? bad call?

>> No.616038

My friend's parents have a huge debt in CHF, monthly payment was half of their income, I don't know what will happen with them now.

Why do things like this happen?

>> No.616046

>>614219
In Poland shitloooad of people have franc debts. Everyone's parents, really. Including mine. It added roughly ~100 USD to their monthly payment, which I guess isn't as bad as it could be.

>> No.616054

>>616038
I dunno some people say the situation will get even worse in the next weeks

>> No.616055

>>614321
What if i'm a really qt trap?

>> No.616063

>>616038

I rhymes with news.

>> No.616067

how do we play this mid to long term, /biz/?

>already in stock (indexes)
>already in gold

where are the opportunities?

>tempted to get in some oil stock (thinking BP).

>> No.616079

>>616067

Shorting the fuck out of the Euro:

>>616017

>> No.616082

>>616067

Buy european markets DAX preferably, after/if ECB prints money.

>> No.616089

>>616082
What makes you think liquidity injection for Europe would work the same as it did in America? Japan has been doing it with no success whatsoever.

>> No.616094

>>616067
wonder if the US will let the USD become too strong. but maybe still time to get in.

>>616082
sounds like good advice.

>>616089
wat? look at the nikkei after QE

>> No.616096

>>616089

Because stocks rise when currency is devalued. Euro devaluation will make German exports cheaper.

>> No.616205

>>614215
what do you drink?
vintage champagne or something?
25 year old Yamazaki?

>> No.616965

>>614405
>Investing
>Lending Club
Pick one.

>> No.616974

Jesus christ this is godlike I work for a luxury caravan man manufacturer and we got SO many orders from swiss customers. Germany economy with its high quality products is benefiting from this so much

>> No.616982

>>614182
what about those who profited muahahahha

>> No.617005

Amazon here I come.

>> No.617018

>speculating on a pegged currency
If you were trading and got assfucked you had it coming