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/biz/ - Business & Finance


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592420 No.592420 [Reply] [Original]

>tfw bitcoins are $310 now

>> No.592424

>>592420
Time to buy!

>> No.592428

>>592420
why is this shit coin so expensive?

>> No.592441

>>592428
it isn't.

>> No.592445

>>592441
3 hundred and odds for a single coin that is useless for the most part.

take a load of this guy.

I understand there is limited amount of this but I don't understand the price is not like they are on high demand

>> No.592448

>>592445
you are a retard

>> No.592469

>>592445

In god we trust.

>> No.592470

>>592448
Good argument dipshit. I'm guessing that's your go to line when you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

>> No.592472

>>592470
>fa
thats my line when i want to let subhumans know that they dont deserve an explanation about things that they could figure out themselves f they could think for a second

>> No.592475

>>592472
So in other words... you have no idea what the fuck you are talking about.

>> No.592480

Damn, I forgot I had around 2 BTC from April 2013. Should I sell now or will Russians use bitcoin for trading once their government collapses?

>> No.592482

>>592475
/thread

>> No.592483

>>592472
>>592470
The two most autistic things I have read all day

>> No.592488

>>592483
The third most autistic thing I have read all day.

>> No.592491
File: 594 KB, 876x493, shell-engraving6.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
592491

>>592420

>Not pouring all your BTC into XMR

>> No.592499

bitcoin is gradually becoming accepted by legit commerce, it has survived a year after becoming mainstream so I don't think it will melt away

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-cap

market cap is $4.5 billion

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions

average number of transactions per day is 85000, or $25.5 million, the number of transactions is gradually increasing to about the level it was this time last year during the bubble and panic selling, even though it is nowhere near as volatile at the moment, suggesting that the increase in transactions is in large part due to E-commerce.

I am confident that most speculators have left, though I suspect there are many long term investors holding bitcoins who are uninterested in E-commerce though aren't likely to sell either. Need to put more thought into how I can estimate the value of bitcoin that is purely due to E-commerce but regardless it appears that 300 is a level resistance, having dropped to $294 in October and recovering quickly ending a downwards trend that lasted months.

https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?timespan=180days&showDataPoints=false&daysAverageString=1&show_header=true&scale=0&address=

don't know, what do you guys think

>> No.592548

>>592499
>I am confident that most speculators have left

you are deluded beyond words my friend.

>> No.592559

I'm so long term bullish on bitcoin. Bitcoin now is like post-IPO google. Everyone knows about it, but think it's a fad/bubble/over-valued because the speculators have been getting toasted the last few months. ALL the long term fundamental signs point toward continued real growth. I think we'll see it back at $1000+ in two to three years if not sooner.

>> No.592604

I wish I'd saved some of the bitcoins I mined when they were $10.

>> No.592608

>>592559

Shut the fuck up.

>> No.592609

>>592480
Why would Russians use something that has performed worse than their currency?


>>592559
Ah yes, the fucking magic internet money can only go up. Even when it's clearly going down.

>> No.592642
File: 47 KB, 1145x453, bitcoin mining rigs being unplugged.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
592642

>>592609
>Ah yes, the fucking magic internet money can only go up. Even when it's clearly going down.
People have actually started to unplug their mining rigs, since the price has dropped to a point where mining coins doesn't cover the cost of electricity/paying off loans for the rigs.

>> No.592651

>>592548
You are bad at speculating and investing.

>> No.592653

>>592559
>ALL the long term fundamental signs point toward continued real growth

what fundamental signs?

>> No.592654

>>592642
>decreasing supply is somehow bearish for the price.

No.

BTC is seeing more acceptance and use. The weak hands are out, and have been for months. They may come back and drive another wave of bubble speculation, but the fact is that from here it's going to be a sideways to upward grind over the long haul. Moonshots are done. Anything that looks like a moonshot, unless accompanied by something stupid like a nation adopting BTC as a national currency, is just another bubble. Speculate accordingly.

>> No.592655

>>592651

And you are a retarded, know-it-all buttcoiner from lebbit.

>> No.592799 [DELETED] 
File: 16 KB, 500x281, tumblr_mhnmr60N801roytlvo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
592799

>>592499
average number of transactions per day is 85000, or $25.5 million, the number of transactions is gradually increasing

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2q2hof/you_know_that_meteoric_rise_in_transaction_volume/

no wonder the blockchain has ballooned out from 12.5GB back in January, to the current 25GB.

>> No.592802
File: 16 KB, 500x281, tumblr_mhnmr60N801roytlvo1_500.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
592802

>>592499
>average number of transactions per day is 85000, or $25.5 million, the number of transactions is gradually increasing

https://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2q2hof/you_know_that_meteoric_rise_in_transaction_volume/

no wonder the blockchain has ballooned out from 12.5GB back in January, to the current 25GB.

>> No.592864

I'm gonna cum so hard when this bubble pops.

>> No.592921

>>592420
$322 actually :^)

>> No.592927

>>592445
>usless
>money laundering
>usless

>> No.592928

>>592864
It already did.

>> No.592985

It's so sad watching people pan for gold after the gold rush has ended. Your May may currency is dead. Abandon ship while you can still get a few shekels back.

>> No.592991

>tfw mined doughje for 3 days 4 a laff
>tfw traded them for btc at 180 sat
>tfw sold the btc at $970
T H A T feel

>> No.593289

I love these threads. BTC fags always get btfo. Then again, buying one of the worst performing 'assets' on Earth for 2014 does that anyway.

>> No.593293

>>593289
>worst performing 'assets' on Earth for 2014
is this a meme?

>> No.593294

>>592420
buttcoin got BTFO on CNBC today. lol dat 2014 chart tho.

>> No.593298
File: 40 KB, 736x527, .gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
593298

>>593293
nope.

>> No.593300

>>592654
The current method of "acceptance" (taking them as payment and immediately dumping them) is reducing the value of bitcoin, not increasing it. Imagine what would happen to any currency if businesses sold all of it the instant they got it.

Bitcoin is an absolute nightmare to use securely and the average person cannot be assed to put up with even setting up a wallet, let alone other required safety precautions, especially for features that only a small % of the world even care about.

It's a niche market.

>> No.593302

>>593298
would give my left nut for a bloomberg terminal

>> No.593309

>>593298
you know you can make money when prices drop, right? you know you can also make money through altcoins...

>> No.593320
File: 26 KB, 358x406, laughing grills.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
593320

>>593309
>you know you can make money when prices drop, right?
>implying you can shortsell in a secure way

>you know you can also make money through altcoins
lol. I'll stick with real investments. Enjoy your tulip bulbs.

>> No.593323

>>593320
>implying btc/shitcoins aren't about speculation
>implying there aren't whole groups gaming the system
>implying you can't join them
retard

>> No.593509

I call bitcoins 'poopykaka coins' because that's all they are to me.

>> No.593525

>>593289
btcfags aren't really getting btfo, you faggots just don't quite grasp alternative currencies because your shekle provider indoctrinated you into believing the only good currency is jew currency. it's not our fault you're a goddamned idiot

>> No.593529

>>593525
>thinking bitcoin is an "alternative currency"
Are all of you guys this stupid or just you?

>> No.593538

>>592445

Money laundering and it's basically an entire currency for the world, it has tons of uses as well and for some people replaces their country's currency

>> No.593542

>>593538
It absolutely replaces no countries currency. Countries with failing currencies either use USD or another stable currency like the Euro or Yen. Using Bitcoin as a currency does not happen because employers dont pay in BTC, you cant pay taxes in BTC (even though gains are subject to taxes), you cant buy groceries in BTC, you cant pay a rent or mortgage in BTC, you cant pay a phone bill in BTC, you cant finance a car or pay for car insurance and gas in BTC... Etc. Bitcoin also loses 70% of its value in a year which is even worse than the Ruble. Lets not compare it to real currencies because Bitcoin is beyond shit at holding value, stability, and use by the general populace. It is a niche commodity at best and a straight up ponzi scheme at worst.

>> No.593551

>>593542

dont forget its not even anonymous and once they know your address they know your past and future transactions, its ridiculous as currency and storage of value.

>> No.593555

>>593529
pretty sure i can use it to purchase things so...

>> No.593559

>>593555
I can use gift cards to buy food at a restaurant too. The ability to puchase things with it doesn't make it a currency.

>> No.593564

>>593559
pretty sure that's only a matter of restriction so...

>> No.593565

>>593564
A big ass restriction. That's what happens with IOUs that are not legal tender of a stable government.

>> No.593567

>>593565
that doesn't mean it's not a currency you daft faggot. you can smash a guys legs with a baseball bat until he says that 2+2=58 but that doesn't mean it actually equals 58

>> No.593572

>>593567
I already explained why its not a currency. Maybe you should try having actual arguments or refute mine instead of getting all pissy that bitcoin isn't generally accepted.

>> No.593578

>>593572
all you're doing is saying that your jewish overlords don't like it and that means it isn't a currency. the use of force doesn't make something logical. i'm gonna go follow another thread now, you can go ahead and reply if you like, but you'll just make yourself look like a retard

>> No.593584

>>593578
I still haven't heard one argument to why you think bitcoin is a currency except "I can buy things with it" which we already established can be done with non-currencies as well. But yeah, go ahead and leave the thread because you using the words "faggot" and "retard" a lot and then bailing is definitely more persuasive than actually making a point.

>> No.593587

The great thing about bitcoin is that it's going to be tremendously important and valuable whether you believe it will be or not.

>> No.593591

>>593587
The great thing about Bitcoin is that whether or not people think they are valuable is the very thing that determines their value. So if people don't think they are valuable, they won't be. Funny thing, speculative commodities.

>> No.593593

>>593591
See, that's exactly wrong. Bitcoin's value derives from the blockchain - the technology that underlies it.

If it were just a speculative commodity then that'd be true, but it's not a commodity, it's not a currency, it's a technology - a way to transfer wealth that will be 10x better than the current system.

>> No.593596

>>593593

Obviously not. The blockchain is open source, anybody can copy it and use the technology, as evidenced by the altcoins.

That's like saying "The U.S. Dollar derives its value from the pictures of Presidents on them". It makes no sense, they're freely copyable and therefore not scarce.

>> No.593602

>>593593
See, that's exacly wrong. Bitcoin (the protocol) value derives from the blockchain but bitcoins (the token) value comes only from speculation. Bitcoin can be used to transfer wealth even if bitcoins were a fraction of what they are worth now. They don't need to cost hundreds of dollars apiece if people are using them just to facilitate the movement of fiat. The more it is used to transfer wealth, the more liquidity is given to the network and the less hoarding will occur which drives down the price. If Bitcoin ever does become a good money transfer system, bitcoin price will drop tremendously.

>> No.593607

Bitcoin is still 94x the price of a Kuwaiti Dinar, which is the most valuable other currency on the planet. In a few years a $3k-$5k price will not be unreasonable, considering how much it is growing daily, and how all other currencies are inflating at a much more rapid rate.

>> No.593608

>>593596
This. Satoshi gave away the Bitcoin technology for free. It is not worth the $4.5 billion marketcap that the market suggests. It is worth $0 since it can be duplicated and can't be sold. It is only the bitcoins themselves that have value and only because of an arbitrary number that bitcoin holders are willing to sell them for.

>> No.593613

>>593607

>confusing unit price with market cap

Sure, one bitcoin is worth $310, but there's also only like 14mm of them, whereas there's roughly $13 TRILLION worth of dollars, or like 3,000x the net worth.

>> No.593614

>>593607
>all other currencies are inflating at a much more rapid rate.

Dude, no matter how you define inflation, BTC is inflation much faster. The miners are pouring ~10% of the total BTC supply in ever year in newly minted coins, whereas the US money supply (MZM) is only growing at like 5%.

>> No.593623

I'm not a shill or claiming it will go to the moon, I want an objective view of bitcoin. If you think it will crash to 0 you're kind of just as bad as the moontaffers, especially if you don't really explain your reasons.

>>592548
it was at $1000 and is now at $300, most have left in terms of purchasing power at least

>>592802
this is a more relevant link, apparently it is a significant but still small fraction, the number of transactions does roughly represent gradual real growth in bitcoin, as well as evidence from more reliable sources
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8781447

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-30377654

>> No.593633

>>592420

Geez, that's still too much.

Considering it absolutely is not being used as it was intended, and with processing costs climbing rapidly, I foresee a major plunge.

>> No.593641

>>593623
Ive been on /biz/ since it was created and have rarely ever seen anyone say it will go to $0 except maybe a couple people. Most bitcoin realists dont think it will die entirely, we just think it is still way overvalued. Also, to say that most speculators are gone is a bold claim to make with no basis in any facts. You think the people hoarding right now are not trying to sell for a higher price and recoup losses? I'm not sure you thought this through...

>> No.593649

>>593608

>for free
>still holds 1kk bitcoins

>> No.593657

>>593602
>If Bitcoin ever does become a good money transfer system, bitcoin price will drop tremendously.

Now that's an interesting and uncommon opinion that you just made up on the spot.

So the more people want to use bitcoin to transfer money, the less bitcoin will be worth? That just doesn't make any sense. Hoarders don't add demand, people that want to use bitcoin to take advantage of blockchain tech do though.

>> No.593659

>>593602
Also, bitcoins fundamental value (and what separates it from alt coins) is the network effect. More people using bitcoin increases the value of everyone else that uses it. Speculators introduce volitility, but the value of bitcoin as opposed to other cryptos is the network effect.

>> No.593661

>>593657
Hoarders dont add demand but they take away supply. When they use bitcoin for purchases or transfer to fiat, it frees the supply up. Meaning: if they actually used bitcoin for what it was intended for rather than hoard, the price would drop. Basic economics.

>> No.593662

>>593657

(not him)

I have made numerous posts with exactly this opinion. Basically, it's an argument from the quantity theory of money- M*V = P*Q. An effective and rapid monetary transfer system will have a very, very high V. For instance, V in the U.S. right now is around 1.4, meaning that one dollar will change hands roughly 1.4 times per year. By contrast, if a BTC changes hands every 15 minutes, or even every hour, then it would have a velocity in the 1000's or 10,000's, and empirical studies have confirmed this is in fact the case.

Therefore, even if the "bitcoin economy" consisting of all things that could be bought and sold only in BTC matched the size of the US economy (HIGHLY unlikely), then one BTC would still only be worth $100 or so, and if the "bitcoin economy" were smaller, then one would be worth mere dollars or even cents.

>> No.593666

>>593659
More people using bitcoin would increase the value of bitcoins if everyone hoarded but because of its volatility hoarding is a bad idea. You can easily use the technology as a money transfer service without holding any wealth in Bitcoin at all, a lot similar to all the merchants who trade them for fiat immediately after a purchase.

>> No.593674
File: 44 KB, 756x464, bcg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
593674

>>593641
>to say that most speculators are gone is a bold claim to make with no basis in any facts
as I said it went from $1000 to $300

1000-300=700

700 > 300

even if the entire value of bitcoin is due to speculators, in terms of purchasing power more than 50% of speculators have left, which is my definition of "most speculators" if you want to get into semantics

anyway pic related is what I think is happening

what is up to debate here is the level of the mysterious purple line which I would like to see people focusing their attack on and conducting in-depth research using facts and logic

>> No.593675

>>592420
>tfw /biz/ will always be a shillcoin containment board

>> No.593690

>>593674
To say that the price drop is mostly due to speculators leaving is a stretch. When a stock in the stockmarket crashes it doesn't mean that all the daytraders dumped their holdings never to return. There are a thousand other reasons why people might sell or why others re-evaluate the value of their investment. If you think that bitcoin can't have another severe price drop then you are not being realistic.

>> No.593936
File: 1.63 MB, 942x743, 35dasl5.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
593936

>>593542
What's infuriating is how Bitcoin fanatics keep harping on on about all the businesses that accept Bitcoin as payment.
Except that those businesses NEVER TOUCH A SINGLE BITCOIN.
They all use a 3rd party processor (like Bitpay), who receive the Bitcoins. Those processors then transfer fiat currency into the so called Bitcoin-accepting businesses bank accounts.
It's like they're saying Paypal is a currency.

>> No.593964

>>593690
it could have a severe price drop, it is just unlikely

also I am pretty sure after a bubble bursts and the price drops that it is almost entirely due to speculators panic selling, not good wholesome low risk long term investors adjusting their portfolios after re-analyzing the fundamentals

>> No.593986

>>593964
There are a couple things wrong with this statement.
>it assumes that the speculators didnt buy back at the lower price. To say that most of them are gone is an arbitrary statement to make.
>long term investors in bitcoin do not have low risk. Buying Bitcoin at all is extremely risky. Ask anyone eho bought above $400 who may likely never see a return.

>> No.594029

>>593986
Why would they buy after the bubble bursts? All their hope of it going to the moon has been quashed.

Long term investors believe they will see a return, they're not going to have the same thoughts as you.

you best be trolling

>> No.594043

>>594029
Because speculators speculate. After a burst some people think the value is going back up so they buy back in. Sorry to throw a wrench in your theory that all the daytraders are gone but the trading volume hasn't really gone down that much after the bubble burst. Just because the price has dropped doesnt mean the speculators are gone.

Whether or not long term investors think they will see a return does not make buying bitcoin low risk. In fact you are the first person I have ever seen anywhere refer to bitcoin as a low risk investment even among the crazies on the bitcoin forums. Even they know it is highly volatile and totally unpredictable.

>> No.594046

>>594043
wansnt shill coin like 600 bux last month?

>> No.594050

>>594046
It hasn't been $600 since august but yes the general trend for this whole year has been downward. Besides that, there is no way to predict where it will be a month from now. If it continues this trend it will be around $250 but who knows. The people that are holding long term should do so knowing that there is a good possibility that the downward pressure may never reverse itself.

>> No.594054

>>594050
do this shit is affected by oil/disasters.

or is just offer and demand?

I might wait until it buttons and go long with one's the shills try to revive it again.

so far it seems highly manipulative

>> No.594147

>>592420
http://www.xe.com/es/currencycharts/?from=XBT&to=USD&view=5Y

>> No.594152

So is the amount of Bc I can get directly proportional to the time I spend on it and the power of my computer or is it like with real mining and I can suddenly find a bunch of BC together if Im lucky?

>> No.594158

>>594152
The former. It's math based, and the problems are really fucking hard. Bitcoin mining is already way outside the realm of home computers. Just buy it directly.

Don't buy those mining machines either. If they were worth anything the companies selling them would be keeping them.

>> No.594161

>>592445

A Bitcoin is a nominal amount with no inherent value.

Just like a stock. The price of the stock is relative to amount of stock issued and market assessment of the underlying asset.

Bitcoin market capitalization is not particularly large. Compared to a real currency it's a joke.

>> No.594320

>>594161
It's a joke as anything else as well.

From a technical standpoint it was mildly interesting as a public ledger, but the goddamn goalposts have been moved so much the faggots shilling for it have no idea what it is.

>> No.594321

>>593674

Instead of "value added by speculators" your chart should say "value mis-allocated by speculators".

>> No.594357

>>594320
Good for buying drugs and laundering money.

Sorry you didn't make cash or use your brain to hide your assets

ps ur fag

>> No.594364

Everyone should read this to get an idea of why the technology underlying bitcoin is so valuable: http://startupmanagement.org/2014/12/27/the-blockchain-is-the-new-database-get-ready-to-rewrite-everything/

Now, the only interesting question that remains is how the actual price of bitcoin is affected by the adoption of blockchain/decentralized-consensus computing. It seems like at some point the value of a bitcoin will track very closely with the cost of the computing power required to maintain the distributed ledger. Indeed, I think that was the idea of the currency in the first place. So probably thinking of bitcoin as a currency at all might not make much sense in a few years. Or maybe not, I don't really know enough about bitcoin to tell.

Ignoring blockchain tech because you think bitcoin is/was a bubble is doing yourself a massive disservice though. There will be massive amounts of money made by the companies that implement blockchain tech.

>> No.594445

>>594364
This is what I don't understand. Everyone is bitching about how the price SHOULD be a lot lower, how BTC is overvalued but the general public is just so stupid. If these people were really smart, they'd capitalize off the public's ignorance.

It's a mixture of idealism (wahh btc is a safe, instant cheap alternative to $$$ but I won't touch it until it lands in my lap) and insecurities (well if you've ever been around the block AS I OBVIOUSLY HAVE you'd know that Bitcoin is just stupid. Listen to my great opinion, I just repeat verbatim everything my parents say and headlines I read but it's OBVIOUS how smart I am)

>> No.594448

>>594445
your parents are shitty people who wish they could have bought in 3 years ago

>> No.594485

>>594448
... exactly what I'm talking about

Even if you completely acknowledge how stupid BTC is why do you not wish that you'd have bought in? Successful people don't discriminate how they make cash

>> No.594584

>>594485
That doesnt explain why you have retarded parents and why they have an inbred son

>> No.594799
File: 72 KB, 600x285, buttcoin speculation.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
594799

>>594485
>why do you not wish that you'd have bought in?
Holy shit, you Bitcoin fanatics really are retarded out the ass.
Did you lot completely forget about what happened around this time last year?
When a certain exchange (Which once handled 70%+ of bitcoin transactions) made off with a shitzillion dollars?

>> No.594806

>>594799
Seriously, read this shit right here to know why Bitcoin has been steadily falling in price:
https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/report-mtgox-fraud-led-to-1200-bitcoin-price/
Bitcoin is just headed back to what it's REALLY worth, without market manipulation.

>> No.595069
File: 88 KB, 500x700, badassmofo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
595069

will a kind soul help a fellow anonymouse find a way to buy a small amount online?
I am trying to spend a very little amount of burgers..
I know of localbitcoins but the options are very poor-asking price is always over 400

is ebay my best bet?

I just want to be part of history/bandwagon and have some small amount in my bank

question #2
I am a poseur when it comes to /g.
I am under the impression that beowolf cluster computing(multiple computers working as one) can be used for extreme math computation and similar ventures,
does anyone know through the grapevine of the aforementioned being used for mining successfully?

>> No.595073

>>595069
I wish I could help you buy some buttcoins. You deserve to get assreamed when the price cobtinues to fall. Its ok though I am sure some shill will follow this post on where to buy butts and "help" you out.

>> No.595619

>>595069
>I know of localbitcoins but the options are very poor-asking price is always over 400
lol what?
that's a 20% markup.

>> No.595630

>a six year old currency not backed through the force of a government has some trouble becoming mainstream
wow really?

>> No.595631

>>595069
Make an account on blockchain.info they probably have something linked that you can buy btc through your local currency.

>> No.596121

>>593323
>being this mad
Like it not bitcoins are just a fad currency til something new and better comes along.

>> No.596125

>>593564
>A big ass restriction. That's what happens with IOUs that are not legal tender of a stable government.
>>593564
>>593567
>>593578
BTFO lol

>> No.596126
File: 16 KB, 267x274, cofee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
596126

>>592420
>treating BTC as a stock instead of a currency

0/10 pleb