/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.58354216]

Capitalism chuds will defend this

[Anonymous No.58354298]

>>58354216
Picture is accurate.
Your post is not, moron. It’s Marxist central banking and fiat policies in both situations.
FYI I’m not a capitalist either kek

[Anonymous No.58354315]

>>58354216
imagine calling central banking gay race communism "capitalism"

[Anonymous No.58354322]

yup getting pinched from every side just by living in this country. Everything is getting more expensive but salaries remain largely the same, you will own nothing and be happy.

[Anonymous No.58354325]

This is just nature healing

[Anonymous No.58354411]

>>58354315
it is, though. The bank is so powerful it's practically the government...

[Anonymous No.58354441]

>>58354216
personally i blame the jews and niggers

[Anonymous No.58354472]

>>58354325
finally, someone who echoes my sentiments

[Anonymous No.58354555]

This is state malfeasance. We supercharged inflation just so we could lock down for a slightly stronger flu.

[Anonymous No.58354556]

>>58354216
Communism doesn't make things less expensive, it just stops you from seeing costs.

[Anonymous No.58354560]

>>58354216
by design

[Anonymous No.58354576]

>>58354411
Central banking is a staple of communism, not capitalism. A central bank and single state currency is outlined as a necessity to eliminate capitalism in the communist manifesto.

[Anonymous No.58354581]

What's funny is that I saw a /biz/ post like this in 2022 where some anon outlined that the economy would go into depression but media wouldn't report on it, then years and years after the fact the academics would call it the silent depression and how it was le bad.

[Anonymous No.58354614]

>>58354216
Yes, it's almost like real assets prices float on a sea of printed money.

[Anonymous No.58354630]

>>58354576

Let's be honest, the West is socialist now. The degree of taxation for the individual/business is utterly absurd. The state commands the majority of national resources. Most major industries are at least partially nationalized if not heavily regulated/subsidized. And then there's the central bank acting as the effective headwinds of the economy. This is not a free market at all. It's socialist.

[Anonymous No.58354714]

>>58354630
America has had socialism for the rich for decades now

[Anonymous No.58354739]

>>58354216
>government introduces more and more regulations ever since the abolition of the gold standard
>its capitalism fault guys believe me

>>58354411
>government forces you to use their monopoly bills they print on demand to buy or sell stuff
>government bailed out the bank in 2008 because they were too big to fail
>its capitalism fault guys believe me

[Anonymous No.58354744]

>>58354714

>socialism for the rich

So, socialism. Rich people don't disappear in socialism they just consolidate progressively more and more power/wealth among fewer and fewer. It's the formal merger of state/corporate interests into one.

[Anonymous No.58354779]

That is when the New Deal started the path to socialism you illiterate retard.

[Anonymous No.58354785]

>>58354216
The current system isn't capitalism, it wasn't capitalism even in 1930 either, so no I don't have to.

>>58354739
this, but if one were to effort post about it you could point out a lot more than just that. But there is no point in effort posting to educate reactionary illiterate NPCs.

[Anonymous No.58354814]

>>58354411
>The bank is the government
>Monetary policy.
>Fiscal policy.
Yeah. Nothing gets past this goy.

[Anonymous No.58354941]

Mmmh wonder what these countries have in common...

[Anonymous No.58354959]

>>58354630
What do you mean by "socialism"? Are you using it as a synonym for communism or do you mean we have a social philosophy that prioritizes society's health over individual liberty?

Either way, I disagree. I believe we're still more liberal than socialist, and we're deffinetly not communist.

[Anonymous No.58354976]

>>58354941
They're post communist countries. A "home" in some of those places is a studio apartment.

[Anonymous No.58354986]

This thread is full of stupid right-wingers who don't know what socialism is.

[Anonymous No.58355003]

>>58354785
It's free market capitalism. Aka capitalism with government intervention. The west hasn't been free trade since the 1800's. We're deffinetly not communist.

[Anonymous No.58355040]

>>58354986
Projection.

Socialism was originally a social philosophy competeing with liberalism.

Socialism = the health of society is prioritized over the rights of an individual

Liberalism = the rights of an individual are prioritized over the health of society.

Then Karl Marx wrote about what he believed "true" socialism looked like, which would be a stage to true communism.

Now leftist college kids and dumbass bible thumping conservatives think socialism and communism are synonomous. They're both retarded.

[Anonymous No.58355152]

>>58354986
>Real socialism has never been tried!
Are you going with that?

[Anonymous No.58355166]

>>58354976
not like in the us of a where a home is a tent or a car

[Anonymous No.58355174]

>>58354986
>This thread is full of stupid right-wingers who don't know what socialism is.

What's the last book you read, clown?

[Anonymous No.58355202]

Both “capitalism” and “communism” are utter failures because the real problem is the nature of human greed and societies with drastically underdeveloped moral frameworks to deal with the issues

[Anonymous No.58355207]

>>58355166
Most of us don't live in cars or tents. Most of the people living in tents came here in the past 20 years looking for free shit. Compare to those post commi states where "homeownership" means you live in a 60 year old studio apartment.

[Anonymous No.58355210]

>>58354959

You have no idea just how far we've fallen from 100 years ago. We are taxed an incredibly higher amount. Those are our rights, our resources, that now belong to our government. The state has expanded massively, and is now heavily involved in all forms of domestic micro management. They play kingmaker with the economy and businesses, they almost totally consume industries like education, healthcare, and housing. They have the central bank dictate when we are going to be "growing" and "receding", the definition of command economy.

If you don't think we're socialist it's just because you have no idea what the world was like in an actual free market paradigm 100+ years ago. Individuals and businesses are half-owned by the state. That is socialist. Once we are completely owned, kept, controlled, and commanded, it is communism.

[Anonymous No.58355218]

>>58355202
housing is not a problem in communist or post communist countries so it fixes that which is the point of this post

[Anonymous No.58355223]

>>58355202
This is the correct answer.

[Anonymous No.58355235]

>>58355210
>>58354959

see pic. The definitive proof of massive state involvement in society and the economy. And it's only the tip of the iceberg, they exercise additional power in laws/regs, central bank policy. They raise even more revenue in debt and through inflation.

[Anonymous No.58355250]

>>58355210
socialsm means the worker own the means of production, what you are saying is the result of a few giga corporations governing the country at their will, literally the opposite

[Anonymous No.58355254]

>>58355223
>>58355202

No it isn't, it's another childish, centrist cop out. "Capitalism" isn't a real thing. Nobody wrote a book on "How to do Capitalism." The word exclusively arose as a counterpart to the construction of Socialism, an actual artificial framework.

Something that never existed can't fail. There only is what there is. The free market exists whether a state does or does not. There is only the free market and the extent to which the state has decided to intervene.

[Anonymous No.58355268]

>>58355250

If that is your narrow dimwitted definition of socialism it has never ever happened in human history so it's useless. We know what "socialism" is as a concept, and we are clearly living in it. Resources have been heavily socialized, under a large centralized state. Low economic freedom, high state interventionism, a command economy.

[Anonymous No.58355294]

>>58355210
This is a layered shitpost.

>You have no idea just how far we've fallen from 100 years ago. We are taxed an incredibly higher amount. Those are our rights, our resources, that now belong to our government. The state has expanded massively, and is now heavily involved in all forms of domestic micro management. They play kingmaker with the economy and businesses, they almost totally consume industries like education, healthcare, and housing. They have the central bank dictate when we are going to be "growing" and "receding", the definition of command economy.

Fuck yeah. Agree 100%.

>If you don't think we're socialist
I never said I didn't think that it's socialist. I said I think we're still far more liberal than we are socialist.
> because you have no idea what the world was like in an actual free market paradigm 100+ years ago.
You mean laissez fair. Not free market
Free market = gov intervention
Laissez= no gov intervention
>Individuals and businesses are half-owned by the state
Not sure what you mean
>That is socialist.
Arguable
>Once we are completely owned, kept, controlled, and commanded, it is communism.
Not necessarily.

[Anonymous No.58355306]

>>58355254
>The word exclusively arose as a counterpart to the construction of Socialism

Lmao. Retard

[Anonymous No.58355348]

>>58355254
Capitalism is synonymous with free market, which has had many books written about it. We do have a free market, you are free to buy and sell what you want when you want. And it has failed the same way communism has, greedy fucks wanting more beyond what the system can realistically support.

[Anonymous No.58355349]

>>58355294

Ok well, thanks for your opinion. I guess it isn't real socialism until we're eating rats and living in shackles then. Might as well sit here and wait for that day rather than acknowledging the fact that we are getting turned into feudal peasants in real time.

[Anonymous No.58355353]

>>58354976
A studio apartment would be better than what I can afford in this broken economy

[Anonymous No.58355378]

>>58355348

>endless list of rules/regulations for individuals
>even more for businesses
>government picks winner and kills losers

Not free at all.

>synonymous with free market

Ok, so call it "free market." Stop buying into socialist pejoratives which mean nothing otherwise. A free market can't fail, it just is. It was here before us, it will exist after we have imploded under the weight of this brown socialist insanity.

[Anonymous No.58355388]

>>58355349
That's quite the strawman.

We're still more liberal because we have a constitution and legal system that garuntees certain individual liberties in spite of your little rant. We also have a culture that doesn't just promote but worships the idea of individual liberty. We are a bit socialist, but we're far more so liberal.

Calm down libertarian. I like you more than I like the commies.

[Anonymous No.58355399]

>>58355254
>No it isn't, it's another childish, centrist cop out. "Capitalism" isn't a real thing. Nobody wrote a book on "How to do Capitalism." The word exclusively arose as a counterpart to the construction of Socialism, an actual artificial framework.
>Something that never existed can't fail. There only is what there is. The free market exists whether a state does or does not. There is only the free market and the extent to which the state has decided to intervene.

100% correct on all points. As long as humans exist markets will exist. Arising spontaneously. No plan or book or central planning committee is needed.

[Anonymous No.58355448]

>>58355388

I'm not a libertarian, faggot. Where exactly do you draw the line? Nothing about "socialism" says liberalism can't exist within it at all. Is China socialist or liberal? Because they have private/liberal artifacts throughout their economy now. But no one would call them liberal, or a free market, squarely socialist. And that's where we've been trending.

Progressively stronger state/megacorporate merger
Progressively weaker/beleaguered small/medium sized business freedom
Progressively poorer, feudalized people, heavily taxed and told what to do and where to live
Your life is financing, not ownership. You are at the whims of the lending/banking class (who are under the direction of the state)
The central bank controls all economic headwinds

How on Earth you could ever call this "more liberal" than just socialist is beyond me. That ship sailed a while ago. The trend is very clear and we are past the event horizon of being described as a liberal economy.

[Anonymous No.58355494]

>>58354325
>boomer
Where's corona when you need it?

[Anonymous No.58355501]

>>58355399
The word capitalism was first used in 1788. The word socialism was first used in 1832, and communism was created by marx in around 1842

[Anonymous No.58355533]

>>58355378
Did you know if you don’t like the regulations the US has in place, you’re welcome to go buy anything or sell anything in another country, and the US won’t stop you? This is as compared to communist countries with controlled markets where you can’t export capital. It is a free market, believe it or not.

>did exist before and will exist after….
Sure, except we policed it then too with self regulation via society morals. Which again brings me back to my main point, there is no way to logically fix economic systems as their woes are derived from the failure of society to develop moral systems. Greed does not change between communist and capitalist societies funny enough.

[Anonymous No.58355545]

>>58355268
well that's the definition by Marx and Engels themselves, any other is bs

[Anonymous No.58355550]

>>58355501

Disingenuous liar. A random one-off isn't the same as the introduction of a concept into the common vernacular. "Capitalism" was not a thing until "socialism" was. We had words like free market, liberal economy, etc. The word itself is utterly fucking stupid, what is "capitalism"? "I believe in having lots of resources"? Fucking retarded.

[Anonymous No.58355553]

>>58354216
as long as you let infinity immigrants, legal and illegal, flood your country, increasing demand for house, the housing prices will continue to climb
strange how nobody who whines about housing prices ever want to talk about that, their only solution is to have the government steal more money from the few who actually still work for a living and give it to them.

[Anonymous No.58355565]

>>58355448
>Is China socialist or liberal?
Do they have a social philosophy focusing on individual liberty or the health of society to the possible detriment of civil liberty?

They are socialist.

>How on Earth you could ever call this "more liberal" than just socialist is beyond me.

Because we have individual liberties garunteed to us by a constitution and a culture that heavily prioritizea individual liberties. You're focused on economic liberty over all forms of liberty. We still have far more economic liberty than a communist state or a socialist one such as China.

>I'm not a libertarian
Oh yes you are

[Anonymous No.58355586]

>>58355533

The only options aren't "free market" and "communism." We have a word for the middle. It's called "socialism." 100 years ago we had laws and regulations, for common sense basic things, and a liberal economy. Not anymore. Why is that hard to get? These are degrees, this is nuance.

We are not even close to free, using the word is insulting to people who actually lived in that context.

[Anonymous No.58355589]

>>58355550
>Disingenuous liar. A random one-off isn't the same as the introduction of a concept into the common vernacular.

The father of modern economics is a "one off"?

[Anonymous No.58355602]

>>58355565

The fact that you vomit out your naive midwittery with that kind of redditor smugness is kind of incredible honestly

>there is a piece of shitpaper (that the government doesn't abide by) that says we are free. So we are free. QED sweatie :----)

kys

[Anonymous No.58355617]

>>58355586
>the middle ground is called "socialism"
It's called regulated market. A person could easily believe that a free market is what's best for society. That person would still be a socialist.

[Anonymous No.58355624]

>>58355589

Where did the father of modern economics describe capitalism? With the word capitalism, btw. We are discussing the word. I know free, liberal markets exist.

[Anonymous No.58355646]

>>58355602
>The fact that you vomit out your naive midwittery with that kind of redditor smugness is kind of incredible honestly

>ad hom
>no argument
I accept your concession.

>there is a piece of shitpaper (that the government doesn't abide by) that says we are free. So we are free. QED sweatie :----)

Another strawman.

[Anonymous No.58355653]

>>58355617

Once again you fags will not accept the transition from "free" to "socialized" until we are literally under communist shackles. This is how society dies, the refusal to see the writing on the wall and the transition from one paradigm to another.

We HAD a regulated market.... 150 years ago. There were laws. There were regulations. They were basic and direct. We are nothing like that economy now. But both are "free" according to you? Fuck no.

[Anonymous No.58355659]

someone explain to me how a true unregulated free market doesnt inevitably lead to monopoly or oligopoly

[Anonymous No.58355664]

>>58355646

>buzzword
>buzzword
>word salad
>smuggery
>I le accept your le concession!!!1!!1

Nigger

[Anonymous No.58355666]

>>58354315
Humans can only behave in a capitalistic manner.
So yes.
But a meaningless yes.

[Anonymous No.58355680]

>>58355624
He described it as a system were people bought and sold things for profit.

[Anonymous No.58355687]

>>58355659

Socialism guarantees a monopoly or duopoly. It is the literal definition of the system. Once the state/megacorps have formally merged (like China), it is now a monopoly. You are crying about a boogeyman in a free system that COULD happen, while it is literally guaranteed by praxis in the other.

[Anonymous No.58355707]

>>58355680

We have been doing that since before written history. The free exchange of goods and services were not defined by anyone, they just are. And capitalism is a stupid, reductive little pejorative concocted by socialist faggots in their 19th century smoking rooms to evoke images of fat cat industrialists where the word "free market" just wouldn't bite enough in their speeches.

[Anonymous No.58355716]

>>58355653
>>58355664
You sound upset.

>>58355659
It does. That's the difference between free market and laissez fair. In a free market, you break up monopolies to promote competition. Laissez fair means no market intervention at all by the state.

[Anonymous No.58355727]

>>58355707
>We have been doing that since before written history.
Correct. Capitalists and capitalism have existed since the written word, as has socialism. Communism is the new idea.

[Anonymous No.58355729]

>>58355586
>there’s a middle ground
Sure, and there’s a billion shades between black and white, but none with any color. Pick literally any two economic systems you want, the point is they’re all broken because you cannot eliminate greed and other negative traits from the system without a societal understanding and acceptance of the moral behind it. It has to do with the fact that economic systems are systems built to be subservient to human desire, the only way to strip greed systematically is to strip desire too.

>we are not even close to free
Maybe because you’re conflating free with emotions like “good” or “positive” when freedom can also be bad in certain contexts, like say free markets that allow monopolization of your life, as compared of course to controlled markets which merely control your life KEK

[El Arcón No.58355734]

Shit Cunt's little buddy called in the gangstalker drone strike on me after I went and complained about him harassing me in the gym today after I asked him to fuck off more than a few times.

[Anonymous No.58355744]

>>58355716

>the difference between free market and laissez-faire

Is "English" and "French." You are an impressive midwit. The King of Dunning Kruger Mountain.

[Anonymous No.58355746]

>>58355687
i dont think it's a bad thing if the money goes back to the people

[Anonymous No.58355752]

>>58355729
Most intelligent anon ITT

>>58355734
Most schizophrenic anon ITT

[Anonymous No.58355791]

>>58355729

Not at all. As I've gotten older, experienced business/investment myself, and realized just how much power/influence the state has, and analyzed now vs yesterday, I've realized we crossed that event horizon already. Everyone is always waiting for "that day" that socialism will materialize, it's in pieces. And we have enough pieces. They command so fucking much of the economy it isn't funny. If you don't agree, you simply don't know.

The level of regulation, economic involvement, resource acquisition, resource redistribution, would make FDR wet his panties. I don't even get the point in being like you, complacent. "Oh it's ok we still have SO much 'freedom budget' left to burn, we're still so free!!" What's the point? Do you want that spent as well? This march is not stopping. Everyone is getting poorer, wealth and power gets progressively more concentrated amongst the chosen entities and the state, the middle class is all but dead, and you are on the internet carrying water for the current paradigm. What's the point my guy?

[Anonymous No.58355797]

>>58355744
Lassiez fair in french means "allow to do", not "free market".

>Myth: A free market’s distinguishing characteristic is the lack of government intervention. Government involvement destroys free markets. Bans on various types of economic behavior, including those intended to protect competition, go against free market principles. Government is easily corrupted and works on behalf of powerful interest groups therefore is not the most suitable institution to safeguard competition.

>Reality: Competitive free markets and laissez faire are not interchangeable. Proponents of laissez faire oppose government intervention even to protect a market. Therefore, their concern is not the preservation of markets but the prevention of government involvement; two different concepts. It is not coercion that concerns them because they have no objection to coercion imposed by private parties even if it leads to the destruction of a market.

You should go to college and take some econ classes.

[Anonymous No.58355805]

>>58355746

It does not. Why would it? How can you be this religious? A massive revenue seeking entity suddenly becomes charitable and magnanimous because someone slapped a "socialist" sticker on it? They will make their money, they will get fat and rich, and they will leave you in the cold.

[Anonymous No.58355833]

>>58355797

I can 100% believe you get your entire understanding of the world from college classes since you think these are meaningfully different words and concepts. Ah yes, the famous "free market" and "laissez-faire" schism.

Were I a socialist, and I wanted to keep 105 IQ faggots occupied and confused, I would invent things like this for my college courses to have them battling over ghosts and shadows while I kept pushing on with my own real agenda of total state takeover of every facet of the socioeconomy.

[Anonymous No.58355896]

>>58355833
Let me explain this to you like I would a child

Laissez fair

The government should not intervene at all in the economy, including taking any action against a monoply that can itself regulate a market

Free market

The government may only stop a monoply from regulating a market, but may not regulate it itself. No market regulation

Regulated economy

The state regulates markets

[Anonymous No.58355909]

>>58355586
https://casi.stanford.edu/news/exposing-big-free-market-myth-author-naomi-oreskes

[Anonymous No.58356094]

Yes, let's put retards that believe in Communism in charge, that will fix everything.

[Anonymous No.58356531]

>>58354959
>I believe we're still more liberal than socialist, and we're deffinetly not communist.
Both sides of the spectrum believe in regulations as a platform for social engineering, thus putting the belief of a "common good" over individual responsibility.
Read Hayek's "The Fatal Conceit".

[Anonymous No.58356556]

>>58355666
Begone, Satan! And take your lies with ye!

[Anonymous No.58356559]

>>58354298
>Marxism
>Financial policy

Don't blame capitalism on us, dumbass. Sorry the only goal of your institutions and firms is making 12 people a bunch of money at the expense of the culture, environment, safety, and society.

[Anonymous No.58356601]

>>58354325
I'd batter this cunt

[Anonymous No.58356627]

>>58354216
>Capitalism
Like under communism, the government doesn't just print their currency into Oblivion.

[Anonymous No.58356644]

>>58354411
The government has nothing to do with capitalism. In a pure capitalist system there is no government.

[Anonymous No.58356697]

>>58354216
>DUDE WATCH THE INFLATION RATE, DUDE THAT'S CRAZY, WATCH THE TRUFLATION NEW DATA, THEY ARE ROBBING US, ISN'T THAT CRAZY?

[Anonymous No.58356709]

>>58356644
then pure capitalism cannot exist. The most extreme version of it is where corporations control the government through lobbying their policies into the law. Sound familiar?

[Anonymous No.58356744]

>>58354216
Commies will defend jews slaughtering Christians.

[Anonymous No.58356915]

Socialism is for losers. Capitalism is for winners. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.58357153]

>>58356915
Guess what happens when most of society is losers. That's a direction you don't want to go in

[Anonymous No.58357248]

>>58354298
>marxist central banking
what the fuck are you talking about

[Anonymous No.58357593]

>>58357248
Number five, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.58357627]

>>58356559
You're not immune from being called out for your commie tendencies because you need to implement them in dollars, commie chud

[Anonymous No.58357747]

>>58355752
Intardesting

[Anonymous No.58357905]

>>58356531
I think liberalism allows for far more accountability. It also comes from a time when human populations were much smaller and more agrarian than metropolitan.

Allowing someone the liberty of owning a literal machinegun isn't much of a problem when your closest neighbor is 10 miles away and there are ten families in your town. When tedoy in NYC everyone under 40 is on SSRI's and there are train stations with thousands of soft targets walking around, it makes more sense to say; "fuck your personal responsibility, we can't let people have that shit".

[Anonymous No.58358694]

>>58354298
Correct Comrade.
When glorious imperialist capitalist America fails, it is because it was under the spell of communism all along.