/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.57304285]

how do you respond to this without sounding upset?

[Anonymous No.57304295]

>>57304285
retarded

[Anonymous No.57304304]

Calmly invite them out for a drink, and explain that while the growth potential of blockchain technology is dead with the death of DeFi (it is) the financial system is still very sick and will continue to reward reckless speculation for decades until its collapse. therefore, BTC will go up.

[Anonymous No.57304322]

that's how banks already work

[Anonymous No.57304327]

>>57304285
the dollars you trade for the excel spreadsheet have no value either

[Anonymous No.57304336]

>>57304285

>I shagged your mum

[Anonymous No.57304352]

>>57304285
>blockchain is just a database

[Anonymous No.57304354]

>>57304304
how is defi dead?

[Anonymous No.57304380]

Functional demand is DETRIMENTAL to a Money (store of value), price is a product of aggregate demand, a money having functional use means part of the price (proportional to it's functional demand) will be from functional demand, forcing buyers of Store of Value to pay a functional premium and subjecting them to the risk the functional demand will fall, causing real terms fall in money value independent of demand for Store of Value. This can be seen in platinum, while it's physical properties make it a strong money on paper, it's high functional demand renders it unusable as price becomes dominated by functional demand, not Store of Value demand.

Gold is the best natural money precisely because it has little functional demand, less than 10% of annual gold mining production goes towards functional use, BTC improves on this by having no functional use outside of Money (store of value).

The only intrinsic value anything has is itself. 1 BTC = 1 BTC, 1 Au oz = 1 Au oz and so on. An ounce of gold buys a ton of wheat now, but if a meteor hits the earth and decimates wheat production will it still buy a ton of wheat? Of course not. Ergo, the value is extrinsic not intrinsic, gold derives it's value from demand for Store of Value, same as BTC, BTC better meets the demand for SoV being fixed in total supply, trivially easy to authenticate, weightless, transferable trustlessly and securely and so on.

This halving marks the inflection point where BTC inflation (~1.7% now) fails well below gold mining inflation (2%), at all future points BTC will only ever be a better and better fixed unit of account and therefore a better and better store of value. Bitcoin is an inevitability

[Anonymous No.57304429]

>>57304285
I guess explain the value of blockchain is that there is no trusted intermediary, not that its "encrypted" or something. The author clearly has no clue wtf blockchain is. The database isn't encrypted. And there is no greenshirt promoter who owns or controls it. That's the actual point. The database can't be corrupted or abused.

[Anonymous No.57304454]

>>57304285
>lol
next question

[Anonymous No.57304561]

>>57304285
I would pat them on the back and tell them "good job" for having an IQ high enough to not fall for an 18th century ponzi scam.

[Anonymous No.57304566]

>>57304322
This.
Money is a social construct

[Anonymous No.57304567]

>>57304354
by marketcap and adoption metrics

[Anonymous No.57304573]

>>57304285
>the dollars you trade for the excel spreadsheet have no value either
actually the dollar system is a lot more like the excel sheet than bitcoin is.

[Anonymous No.57304581]

>>57304380
i love how bitcoin taught normies masters degree level of economics (and i really do mean that), but failed to teach highschool level gun

[Anonymous No.57304607]

>>57304380
good info. will save in my memory banks. thanks.

[Anonymous No.57304680]

>>57304581
High school level "gun"?

[Anonymous No.57304775]

>>57304581
>i steel ur bitcon!
The possibility of theft does not alternate systemic economic value, and BTC is easier to truly secure than other assets anyway

[Anonymous No.57304784]

>>57304285
at least i dont have to find a way to pay you back i guess stupid is fun

[Anonymous No.57304822]

>>57304285
funy carton

[Anonymous No.57304831]

>>57304380
>the value is extrinsic not intrinsic
I think this might be what nocoiners don't understand about currency, and why they are obsessed with currency having backing or some intrinsic industrial use. For some reason they don't get that money gets it value from the people who use the currency, not from the money itself.

[Anonymous No.57304859]

>>57304285
If you believe bitcoin is worthless, I will buy a bitcoin from you for $100.

[Anonymous No.57304885]

>>57304285
There's nothing to be upset about, is there?
People buy lottery tickets because there's the potential to make money. Nothing wrong with taking a chance on crypto to make money since you can actually examine and consider the likelihood of it being successful.
Now saying keep most of your money in crypto is another matter. You should have a health supply of the most common local currency, some supplies related to any potential for 'disaster' relevant to your area, and I guess some precious metals as well. If you want to be extremely thorough.

[Anonymous No.57304887]

>>57304285
You don't.
You pat them on the head and say "stay poor" and then get on with your life.
If they can't understand the value of decentralized trust, they're probably a Democrat voter and thus deserve to be left behind.

[Anonymous No.57305180]

>>57304285
don't care, want money, don't want to work or produce value for it.

fuck the world
fuck productivity
fuck the goverment
fuck the police
fuck jews
fuck trannies
fuck jannies

[Anonymous No.57305219]

>>57304285
explain how cryptographic proofs mean you can reliably trust it was minted on a schedule and that it adhere to its contract and that with a controlled limited supply comes value.

[Anonymous No.57305231]

>>57304285
I'm actually launching a coin based on spreadsheet functionality

[Anonymous No.57305253]

>>57304285
How does it solve the double-spend problem?

[Anonymous No.57305350]

>>57304285
Hmmm the EYES THE EYES ITS THIER EYEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Anonymous No.57305395]

>>57304354
It's not
>>57304567
Google just became a validator for Flare Networks. It's only beginning

[Anonymous No.57305417]

>>57304285
if that guy can just apparate a bajillion dollars out of thin air maybe we do need an alternative monetary standard

[Anonymous No.57305515]

>>57305231
The entire US financial system beat you to it.

[Anonymous No.57305567]

>>57304566
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO BUT CRYPTOCURRENCY ISN'T COMING BACK NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO PROJECTS PROJECTSP PORJJEJCJTJJ1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Anonymous No.57305705]

>>57304285
>without sounding upset
STAY POOR FAGGOT!

[Anonymous No.57305723]

>>57304680
He means guns and ammo is worth more than bitcoin. While he’s correct to an extent and every human should have the means to defend themselves against a feral pack of niggers. He doesn’t fully comprehend how powerful blockchain tech is. I own two firearms and put all the rest into crypto.

[Anonymous No.57305732]

>>57304285
What can I do with it?
>That's the best part it! You don't do anything with it
"digital gold"

[Anonymous No.57305736]

[Anonymous No.57305747]

[Anonymous No.57305755]

[Anonymous No.57305764]

>>57304380
So the fact it costs me $50 anytime I want to move it is a good thing? I get raped by some tiny hat with an ASIC whenever I want to capitalize on "muh SoV" just because blockstream says scaling the chain is bad?

[Anonymous No.57305778]

[Anonymous No.57305808]

>>57305778
"We" need to perp walk some retard named Stephen Diehl into a gas chamber.

[Anonymous No.57305824]

>>57305736
lmao this has to be a troll, no one is this stupid...

This is like saying milligrams makes grams of gold have no scarcity

[Anonymous No.57305827]

>>57304327
/thread

[Anonymous No.57305832]

>>57304285
I don't need to, I've made my bet, they've made theirs lets see who makes money and who doesn't. It's not politics, you don't need to argue about it, after a while it's evident who won and who lost

[Anonymous No.57305854]

>>57304680
small guns.
The cool thing about playing fallout in 2023 is that you have years of minmaxing under your belt so you can just put small guns to 100 by level 4 and shred everything. You don't really need speech, barter or medicine, and you only need repair and lockpicking after that.

[Anonymous No.57306295]

>how do you respond to this without sounding upset?
I don't, I don't know anything about crypto I just ride the pump n' dump cycle

[Anonymous No.57306317]

>>57305824
>lmao this has to be a troll, no one is this stupid...

[Anonymous No.57306354]

>>57304285
nigga, if you ain't purchasing spreadsheet you are one poor dumb fuck

[Anonymous No.57306584]

>>57305764
Wow, a whole twenty burger coins to securely and trustlessly move billions across the world in minutes, so prohibitively expensive! Remind me, what's it cost to securely move 20,000 kilos of gold?

If you're poor you can use a scaling solution like Lightning or a CEX or an ETF (or MSTR), from a systemic economic prospective nothing is gained by poverty cretins touching the holy ledger. The reality is 'physical' BTC is still cheaper than transferring even small quantities of gold, and the market will support larger blocks when this is no longer the case.

[Anonymous No.57307349]

>>57305764
A transaction is $4. But even if/when it's $50, that's $50 vs hundreds of millions secured each day. As opposed to every other chain that only secures tens or hundreds of thousands in a day.

[Anonymous No.57307443]

>>57304285
>how do you respond to this without sounding upset?

ask them what colour their Bugatti is

[Anonymous No.57307470]

>>57306584
limited supply is meaningless
even if you pump you wont retain the value - dump

[Anonymous No.57307475]

>>57307443
yes, so crypto suggest you will find a greater fool to buy your bags
that's it, that is all, they only way to make money is trading, and trading will bring crypto to zero

[Anonymous No.57307490]

>>57307475
and BTW the greatest fools are the boomers, but almost instantly fund managers banned the ETFs

[Anonymous No.57307536]

>>57306584
That fee is only going to go up as time marches forward.
Gold was largely demonetized precisely because the high transactional friction of its “base layer” (i.e., physically moving around shiny yellow rocks) necessitated increased reliance on “second layer solution” (i.e., banking) that became increasingly centralized and were ultimately completely subverted. With BTC, the situation is actually potentially worse than gold, at least if you assume no additional on-chain scaling will be allowed. While gold's "base layer" has relatively high transactional friction, that friction does not significantly increase as gold adoption / usage increase. In fact, increased adoption somewhat decreases gold's transactional friction by increasing gold's value / weight ratio. In contrast, the current arbitrary constraint on Bitcoin's transactional capacity creates a negative network / congestion effect where increased adoption begets increased friction. Indeed, relatively small increases in transactional demand can cause dramatic increases in the fees required to transact (as we've now seen several times over the years). To understand why this is, picture a rightward-shifting demand curve slamming into the vertical line of an artificial supply quota.
Study this image closely.

[Anonymous No.57307538]

>>57306317
she must give amazing head

[Anonymous No.57307559]

>>57304285
>how do you respond to this without sounding upset?
explain the utility of the BTC network is its decentralized and immutable qualities. explain that the BTC token derives it's value from its network. fiat also derives it's value from a network, but it's a network of trust and coercion instead of a network of cryptographic protocols.

[Anonymous No.57307576]

>>57304285
I don't waste my time talking to idiots (in person)

[Anonymous No.57307588]

>>57307536
>>57307536
>That fee is only going to go up as time marches forward
Yes, because you can either pay for security through transaction fees or though inflation, but inflation makes for poor money. You're basically complaining that Bitcoin is the most secure financial network to ever exist, blowing the competition out of the water (pic related).

>if you assume no additional on-chain scaling will be allowed
Allowed by who? Lightning works, is incapable of creating more Bitcoin, and I don't have to ask anyone's permission to use it. Proof of reserve works for custodial wallets, as do fedimints.

[Anonymous No.57307635]

>>57307588
>Either pay for security through transaction fees or inflation
Alternatively, you could scale the chain, promoting adoption thereby raising the price. More txs in a single block, the avg fee requirement goes down to yield the same value to the miner securing the network.
>Lightning works
It's great for releasing custody of coins, not so great for thousands of transactions per second.
>Allowed by who?
Blockstream? What happened last time someone tried to raise the blocksize? Maxxies aren't known for their ability to admit mistakes, which would be step 1 in restarting that debate.

[Anonymous No.57307665]

>>57307475
>>57307470
Store of Value is a fundamental economic demand. Throughout history, universally across the globe, something as filled this niche. This has generally been gold when available, as gold possess physical properties that naturally meet SoV demand, but it's always been the SoV properties (finite, easily authenticatable, lacking strong functional demand and so on) that have been in demand, not gold itself, indeed when gold has not been available other goods filled this niche, including synthetic SoV like Rai stones or wampum.

BTC is the first synthetic SoV that outperforms gold on all meaningful metrics, BTC will continue to gain SoV marketshare as it better meets SoV demand

>>57307536
Gold performance since 1971: +4500%
Monetary expansion since 1971: +4200%

Gold has performed very respectably for something with 2% annual mining inflation. It should never be forgotten that gold has rarely if ever been used as common currency, only as Money (store of value). We can clearly see from post-71 performance that gold's "demonetized" only allowed rampant currency expansion with little meaningful effect on gold's real terms price, which is to be expected given almost all demand for gold is SoV demand.

[Anonymous No.57307676]

>>57307665
Did gold become more or less expensive to move as its price went up?

[Anonymous No.57307684]

>>57307635
How many times have a corrected you on this point? Learn academic writing, it is a technical description, a peer to peer version of Ecash

[Anonymous No.57307710]

>>57307676
BTC does not become more expensive to transfer as it gains value, it becomes more expensive to transfer as demand for block space increases. Stop trying to fight the market, all bridges are crossed when they're reached, when block space actually becomes scarce the market will support larger blocks

[Anonymous No.57307721]

>>57307684
Academically speaking, I don't believe SM wanted Bitcoin to be a clogged up piece of shit.

[Anonymous No.57307733]

>>57307710
Believe it or not, value has correlated with demand for block space in the past, see the tx fee chart I posted 10 minutes ago

[Anonymous No.57308054]

>>57307635
>scale the chain
You don't magically solve the trilemma. Cranking up L1 scalability would be bad for decentralization, security, or both.
>Lightning releases custody of coins
No it doesn't nigger. The coins in your possession stay in your possession. Worst case scenario is accumulated transactions are settled back to L1.
>>57307635
forks are voted on by miners, and then again by node operators choosing to update their software or not
>>57307721
Blocks keep on just as they always have. You're just seething because there's demand for Bitcoin, and not whatever shit you chose.

[Anonymous No.57308510]

>>57304285
dollar is backed by US military, crypto is backed by nothing

[Anonymous No.57308552]

>>57304285
i don't hold solana or avalanche or any of the other centralized cryptos, so i have no reason to be upset

[Anonymous No.57308816]

>>57304285
calmly tell them to buy dogbat (bnb)

[Anonymous No.57308880]

>>57304322
Yeah the guy just made an argument against trad-fi without realizing it. That spreadsheet doesn't solve the byzantine generals problem.

[Anonymous No.57309084]

>>57305747
this one is correct actually and is why nobody uses the gold standard anymore

[Anonymous No.57309487]

>>57308054
>You don't magically solve the trilemma. Cranking up L1 scalability would be bad for decentralization, security, or both.
Prove it.
>You're just seething cause no bitcorns
I have corn, a lot of it. I'd love to have my magic internet money back. SoV became the new mouth breather mantra post 2017. Still holding in hopes one day we'll get back on track, but it seems we stray further every day. The truth is BTC has done nothing but lose dominance since 2017 and will continue to do so. Wonder why that is?

[Anonymous No.57309726]

>>57304285
How much work goes into encrypting the worksheet?

SQL and basically any Database is encrypted to prevent hackers. If this Excel spreadsheet constantly maintains security by offering proof of work, i'd buy it without the crypto currency bs.

[Anonymous No.57310525]

>>57304327
USD is reserve currency of the world because the USA has military bases in or next to every country. Bitcoin isn't a reserve currency and it is actually backed by nothing, not even a threat

[Anonymous No.57310888]

>>57309487
That's just common sense, the larger a Bitcoin node, the more expensive it is to run, the less people that can run one.
Also you left out that segwit is a thing the miners and node operators did vote on, increasing the effective block size to 4 MB.
Also I said "seething because there's demand for bitcoin". That it has a fee market necessary for security. But I don't need to settle buying coffee against billions of dollars of security. Lightning works just fine for that purpose.

[Anonymous No.57311205]

>>57307721
Coulda woulda shoulda. Satoshi could have changed the code in the early days, he didn't. Cry moar or wait for market support for large blocks
>>57307733
Demand for block space increases during bulls but fees do not rise simply with increasing value