/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.57037555]

So, let me get this straight.
Almost all money in circulation was created as debt attached to a-loan/credit. Banks create this "money" out of nothing (i.e. they're not loaning pre-existing money). Though there were some requirements of "actual" money to imaginary money ratios -- fractional reserve requirements -- but even those have been removed by the Federal Reserve in 2020 (a private institution owned by private banks that is neither federal nor has any reserves). This money, principal, must then be paid back, but because almost all money also has debt attached (created in the same way), those too must be paid off, so there is not enough money in existence to pay off the principal+interest since the money supply includes only principal (unless 100% of the repayments were recycled into the economy allowing those in debt to earn it), so more money needs to be created in the same way to pay off previous debts, which just increases the debt total, and so on and so on.
This money is then used to speculate on shit like gold and stocks, which exist in an imaginary world and don't provide any actual real value, which is what, ostensibly, money represents? How are both practices not the definition of parasitism?

[Anonymous No.57037563]

>>57037555
hi /pol/ !

[Anonymous No.57037657]

>>57037555
Checked. Also cool it with the antisemitism. Also most jews aren't even semites

[Anonymous No.57037662]

>>57037555
It's always funny when you see this post coming along every now and then. Yes the entire economic system is a ponzi scheme and the OCR is the rate at which your government pays the reserve bank back on its loans. The payments for those loans go to anonymous private shareholders who have a stake in your nations currency itself. HahahahahahahaHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA this is why wars are fought nigger

[Anonymous No.57037681]

>>57037662
So he tried to save us

[Anonymous No.57037717]

>>57037555
Because white people investigated themselves and said it wasn’t. See how white people logic and reason?

[Anonymous No.57037732]

>>57037555
>Banks create this "money" out of nothing (i.e. they're not loaning pre-existing money).
Back when there was a nonzero reserve requirement, this wasn't true. They were loaning the same money over and over again and each new loan got recorded as more money in the statistics according to the definition of M2.

[Anonymous No.57037736]

>>57037681
Literally was a foot away from finishing the Soviet Union
If Stalin had to leave Moscow it would have been over
The only reason they survived is just lookup how much shit we've sold and given to Russia
>wahhh WAHH Russia China supapower amerwica gweat Satan
We literally sold them half and more of their industrial food production so they would not be total third world shitholes LMFAO and they have to look at our stuff to make any advancements in anything

[Anonymous No.57037744]

>>57037732
>They were loaning the same money over and over again and each new loan got recorded as more money in the statistics according to the definition of M2
Right, I understand the process, but effectively it is creating money out of nothing.
10k deposit becomes 9k loan which then becomes a 9k deposit at some other bank which then becomes a 8.1k loan etc.

[Anonymous No.57037841]

>>57037681
nazi germany was funded by the same ponzi through the 30s. ww2 was the bubble popping

[Anonymous No.57037857]

>>57037555

You left out how retail banks honor interbank transfers between banks using money they created just to issue a loan. Because how does another retail bank B know if an interbank transfer from retail bank A is backed by a loan or not?

This is where central bank reserves come in. Every bank has an account at the central bank, but unlike our accounts at retail banks, retail banks don't have an ATM at their central bank even though they have accounts there. When you send money from your retail bank B to my retail bank A, how retail bank A trusts retail bank B is like this: retail bank B sends it's central bank reserve account money to retail bank A's central bank account

But how do these retail banks get their central bank reserves at their accounts at the central bank?

If you start a new bank today, you have to get your banking license and open an account at the central bank. Then you have to seek long term deposits from people who don't transfer out their money to another bank to pay their bills etc. This way your new retail bank will get inward remittance of central bank reserves. As long as central bank reserves don't get drained out overnight by poor people paying their bills you can always count on some amount of central bank reserves with you all the time. You can lend these reserves to the government Treasury (which is not a central bank. It is another thing that borrows money for government spending) for interest paid using a share of government's tax revenue (you are now an aristocrat sharing govts revenue). You can also simultaneously create loans as you explained above as long as you can honor interbank transfers that the borrowers will do as soon as they borrow to pay a home construction company's bank.

[Anonymous No.57037921]

>>57037555

Yes.

[Anonymous No.57037967]

Wait I'm a retarded 19 year old could you give a more practical example because I want to understand this better

[Anonymous No.57037975]

>>57037681
Reminder that Gottfried Feder, who was the man that convinced Hitler to join the Nazi party, laid out a plan whereby Germany could do away with taxes altogether. All funding for public offices and services could be obtained from the profits of government-owned businesses that already existed -- all they had to do was remove the obligation to service debt with usurious interest. Feder's work is one that all /biz/raelis should read whether you agree or not. It's quite concise and clear.

[Anonymous No.57037982]

>>57037975
should read Hjalmar Schacht instead

[Anonymous No.57038008]

>>57037967
What part don't you understand?

[Anonymous No.57038009]

>>57037982
Recommend me a work and I will.

[Anonymous No.57038017]

>>57037967
A good intro is "The Creature from Jekyll Island" by Griffin.

[Anonymous No.57038024]

>>57037967
Although beware going down this rabbit-hole. You will not see the world the same way after. If you love blissful ignorance then just leave it.

[Anonymous No.57038040]

you're right op
we should all conduct our business with money tied to shiny metals because shiny metals are """valuable"""
failing that we should just barter in livestock
very based, very redpilled

[Anonymous No.57038081]

>>57038040
If only there were some scarce asset that could be transacted digitally in seconds... hmm...

[Anonymous No.57038082]

>>57038008
The part where you mention that when the principal is being paid back, the money used to pay it back also has debt attached to it.

So (please correct me if I'm wrong this might be a stupid question) lets say that you're paying your mortgage back using the wages you've received through working, that money you've received in wages comes as a result of your employer borrowing money in the form of say a business loan or as a result of revenues gained from other people paying them using borrowed money. So its just cyclical? Because then the revenues of the business also come from wages paid by other businesses and so forth.

If so what started the cycle, because there must of been a point where the first ever "imaginary loan" was created causing this cycle right?

I just want to learn cause this is interesting

[Anonymous No.57038102]

>>57038024
Better a hard truth than a comforting fantasy
>>57038017
100% will check it out

[Anonymous No.57038118]

>>57037555
Yes and you cannot name a better system that keeps prices stable

[Anonymous No.57038151]

>>57037967
>*Loans you one dollar the only dollar in existence*
>Gonna need you to pay us back $1 plus interest plus tip goy
>But only $1 exists?
>Just take out another loan haha

[Anonymous No.57038188]

>>57038040
Gold standard is where this bullshit came from anyway (loaning out more notes representing the goal than you actually had gold stored away).
Even at the most intuitive level it makes no sense for the power over a country's money supply to be in private hands or tied to interests outside the nation.
Why shouldn't banking and the right to create money be in government/public hands? That's a tremendous power. Why should money be debt at all? Why should the people who create real value in the real world be in debt to banks that just create the money out of nothing and demand you pay it back plus interest?
Money should serve as a means to facilitate exchange, and represent real value (since barter sucks).
for example, instead of the government going into endless debt, make the money yourself, and have a tax to curb inflation. When the government here would create money, it would represent real value e.g. building a new park or renovating a road, paying for schools etc., and if whatever was done with the money helped facilitate a proportional increase in trade (e.g. trains, roads or whatever), there'd be no inflation whatsoever.
>>57038082
Another book I am reading is called "Web of Debt" by Brown. It's pretty good.
>So (please correct me if I'm wrong this might be a stupid question) lets say that you're paying your mortgage back using the wages you've received through working, that money you've received in wages comes as a result of your employer borrowing money in the form of say a business loan or as a result of revenues gained from other people paying them using borrowed money.
Sounds correct more or less. Perhaps they themselves did not necessarily take out a loan, but that money entered circulation originally as someone taking out a loan, and has somehow ended up in your employer's hands before being given to you.

[Anonymous No.57038202]

>>57038118
wdym?

[Anonymous No.57038233]

>>57038151
So but then surely the interest is to account for the labour of the people who pressed the button to give you that loan. I understand that it is stupid because ideally the loan would be given for free and this is used to keep people as debt slaves but from an economic perspective what other way is there to incentivise loans on a larger scale.

Like using your example the creditor has 0 incentive except for being a bro, it almost disincentivises lending cause what happens if they were to fall onto hard times. That way the interest pays for the risk of the creditor needing that money before the debtor pays it back

[Anonymous No.57038253]

>>57037555
It is a social control system. And its is updated. Crypto, ironically, will change money, manking it dissapear completelyt and using only what's important: data.

It is up to us that such a system does not become tyranical. But money has to go. The markets are inneficient and AI can do it much better.

[Anonymous No.57038270]

>>57038233
If banking were a public service, this profit could, for example, be distributed among the population, or used to finance public works projects (i.e. govt) which then allows you to re-earn to money and pay the interest and principal.

[Anonymous No.57038298]

>>57038188
That's so fucked
So then debt with interest is just bs and if you don't pay it back they'll take away your shit, you cant even do anything cause if you fight against people taking away your shit you'll just go to jail or you'll never be able to buy a house cause your credit is fucked

[Anonymous No.57038757]

>>57038233
I think the issue is that money should arise naturally (for example gold) and not be fabricated by an authority and deemed to be the only legal way to transact.

[Anonymous No.57038897]

>>57037555
Space between nose and mouth is too small - fetal alcohol?

[Anonymous No.57039116]

>>57038897
fag

[Anonymous No.57039395]

>>57038757
But then you're limited by the supply of gold that exists. And that can be hoarded and the same magical banking and speculation games can be played with it (indeed, that's how it started).

[Anonymous No.57039529]

>>57037555
>>57039116

Imagine being Camille's neighbour in the upscale Parsian neighbouhood apartment you both live in. You have a well paying respectable job, you dress fashionably to impress people and want to make the best impression possible on her. When you see each other come and go, your eyes meet, and her warm smile makes you think you have a chance at something even though you are apprehensive and trying to find the right moment to say something which always seems to elude you.

Then one day you see an out of place character standing in front of her door. He looks like a West African migrant of some sort. His clothes look cheap and tacky, his face and demeanour have an unwlcoming quality to them, and he is empty handed.She opens the door and greets him with that same familiar smile you know. He glances at you before walking in. You wonder who could he be? A handyman? no, he didn't have anything with him. You go inside and lean against your adjoining wall, waiting and listening. First you hear low talking. Her laughs punctuating the murmurs periodically. Then a notable silence. You wait and wait, wondering what is going on. Then you hear it.

[Anonymous No.57039548]

>>57039529
The rhythmic rocking of her bed accompanied by gasps of air from her. This picks up slowly into a more vigorous assault that you can soon clearly hear from the other side. The sense of dread that fills you over realizing what is happening made sharper by the fact that you begin to feel your penis trying to break free from your trousers. You oblige it. The soft mellifluous voice you are used to has transformed into grunting primal wails as her partner next door responds in kind- calling her his "salope" and "chienne blanche" which receive enthusiatic cries of "OUI" from her. You don't know how long you remained that trance of listening and stroking your cock until finally he announces he is going to finish and she manages to gasps for him to do it "dans la bouche". After a second of delay, you hear the unmistakeable sound of a long intense male orgasm follwed by an out of breath whisper of "merci" from her. The knowledge that the demure beauty of your dreams has just hungrily swallowed the flood of potent seed from an African thug is too much for your nerves to handle, and the slightest touch of you cock begins to make yourself orgasm unscontrollably, shooting cum further tahn you ever have before. After a few minutes of lying in such a comatose state, you hear the door shut and footsteps leading to the outside elevator.

[Anonymous No.57039562]

>>57039548
A few days later you are out wandering the streets of Le Montmartre and see a familiar figure in the distance by the outdoor market. It is her this time accompanied by a handsome white man who comports himself in a very upper middle attire. They seem happy and affectionate, holding hands as they browse stall after stall. Occasional pecks on the cheek and whispers in each other ear. When you get closer you begin to listen to them speak. The craft vendor they are buying a wood carving for asks where they are going to put what they are buying. The man says when they find a place together they will put it on their coffee table. The vendor asks how long they have been together and she proudly answers two years. You just sigh in resignation and and accept what it is. Such is life with the sophisticated Parisian woman of today.

[Anonymous No.57039784]

>>57037744
>10k deposit becomes 9k loan which then becomes a 9k deposit at some other bank which then becomes a 8.1k loan etc

And the interest payment keeps people working hard!

[Anonymous No.57039839]

>>57038118

What about land/rents tho

[Anonymous No.57040382]

>>57038270
I like this idea, but we've seen governments just printing trillions to try to pay for work like this before. What kind of mechanism would prevent that if they had control over their supply? afaik that's an advantage touted by keynesians, that the federal reserve being private means the government can't just print money.

[Anonymous No.57041822]

>>57040382
I don't know exactly. But obviously it must be better than it being in private control with interests not necessarily tied with the well-being nation (e.g. profit).
Elections could be won and lost with monetary policy, not that I am a fan of "democracy" (idiocracy in theory, plutocracy in practice).