/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.56556717]

alright co-authists, i have been thinking about something and i can't wrap my head around the fact that i can't seem to get answers.

chainlink posted on twitter that HSBC (660 bn AUM) is bringing gold on chain. `since there is not a collaberation YET, i can only guess they will be using CCIP to tap into huge liquidity and POR to validate the gold is in fact in the vault.

cont.

[Anonymous No.56556719]

>>56556717
it is well known the paper gold market is 100 to 200 times larger than the phisical gold market.
why would a goldbug prefer a paper promise above tokenised gold wich is vallidated every day of being in the vault.
why isn't every goldbug in the universe talking about this shit? it will pump their bags to valhalla when every goldnug switches from paper gold to tokenised - vallidated gold and they found out there just isnt enough gold no?

tell me how am i wrong here please.

[Anonymous No.56556727]

>>56556719
>>56556717
>KYC on every single token

[Anonymous No.56556741]

>>56556727
chainlink DECO as privacy solution.

[Anonymous No.56556743]

>>56556719
You're not wrong but PM maxis are kind of retarded and think "crypto" is a scam, and the market is fully honked so neither Link nor gold will appreciate as a result of this because fuck you that's why.

[Anonymous No.56556755]

>>56556719
the token is literally just a paper promise

[Anonymous No.56556770]

>>56556755
Pepe Stiff and gold money did it and they stopped doing it because of the KYC expenses

[Anonymous No.56556787]

>>56556743
It kinda is a scam though, it has no inherent value (energy is not value - you can't melt those bitcoins down and "release" the energy so NOTHING is stored in them - you can't harvest back that wasted energy)

And the main problem with crypto is there are 10,000 different coins all with pretty much identical usefulness, therefore the potential quantity is infinite. There is no reason "Bitcoin" is considered the "store of value" instead of Dogecoin except for "trust" and people believing it has value - exactly like fiat.

[Anonymous No.56556796]

>>56556755
wich is actually backed. i don't own alot of gold, but righjt now i get a picture every month of a piece of gold in the vault stating its there.

what is laughable, ofcourse.

[Anonymous No.56556801]

>>56556787
you are mostly correct, BTC does NOT store value, rather the value is in the now, mining does give it value but that is only what it cost to mine today

also BTC is not special in any way, and since its value is derived from mining you can always use another chain

[Anonymous No.56556808]

>>56556719
I imagine holding physical gold is a hedge against a full collapse. In the event SHTF or they confiscate it again, if you don't hold it physically, it'll just get taken from you. In this respect, tokenized is the same as paper contracts

[Anonymous No.56556821]

>>56556796
Or you could just… get physical gold bullion. And not have to worry about any of that.

[Anonymous No.56556826]

>>56556808
yeah, batteries, gasoline, bullets, food, water
all come way way before any gold

and if you do gold and silver you have the difficulty of verification, is this really gold

[Anonymous No.56556827]

>>56556787
See this is what I meant when I said they're retarded

[Anonymous No.56556831]

>>56556808
i think you underestimate the quantity of people who hold paper gold and think it's convertible 1 to 1.

[Anonymous No.56556844]

>>56556821
you pay a hefty premium and you can't sell it whenever you want.

[Anonymous No.56556847]

>>56556719
Seems to me the people powerful enough to conceal that theres no gold are also powerful enough to conceal from Chainlink validators that theres no gold. But thats just me shooting from the hip, YMMV.

[Anonymous No.56556853]

>>56556808
>it'll just get taken from you
Lost it in a boating accident, sorry.
>>56556826
>difficulty of verification
Sigma metaliytics.

[Anonymous No.56556866]

>>56556853
crypto can be isnta verified

[Anonymous No.56556919]

>>56556844
>hefty premium
Depends entirely upon what exactly it is your buying, and regardless, all products and commodities have a “spot price” and “real price”. Go ahead and order a steak and then look at beef commodities. There’s a cost to bringing tangible goods onto the market.

[Anonymous No.56556931]

>>56556866
Are we still talking about SHTF? Lol

[Anonymous No.56556937]

>>56556931
all you need is some sort of internet, mobile internet is relatively easy to keep up

[Anonymous No.56556984]

>>56556937
What makes you think all crypto won’t go to zero in the event of a serious economic crisis / SHTF scenario? Bitcoin cannot be readily traded for necessities in the event the economy takes a nose dive, a lot of people don’t even know what crypto is, most (90%+) don’t own any or have any interest in it. Now don’t get me wrong, crypto is great, but I don’t believe it to be the be all, end all to the future of finances. There’s a place for cryptocurrencies, and a place for gold, and yea, they can overlap in some cases

[Anonymous No.56556993]

>>56556743
>You're not wrong but PM maxis are kind of retarded and think "crypto" is a scam
I mean, there is more scamming going on in the last 10 years of crypto than the last 300 years of traditional finance....

[Anonymous No.56557002]

>>56556984
>Bitcoin cannot be readily traded for necessities in the event the economy takes a nose dive
Bitcoin can barely be traded for necessities NOW, without exposing yourself to being cheated.
Let alone in a "happening".

[Anonymous No.56557013]

>>56556984
it does
but it will be near zero, and since it is there, you will be willing to accumulate and sell some batteries to your fren

[Anonymous No.56557019]

>>56556993
Notice I put crypto in quotes. We're not even talking about crypto I just said it that way to prove how clueless you guys are.

[Anonymous No.56557048]

>>56556787
oh no blud is actually restarded

[Anonymous No.56557247]

>>56556919
yes i know, that´s also a benefit of tokenization.
the premium is almost gone.

[Anonymous No.56557332]

my key takeaway from this is that people don't care if they get manipulated.
they are going to care when it matters, and when it matters they are going to be late.

GLHF.

[Anonymous No.56557664]

>>56556717
>>56556719
you would be wrong to assume anything other than an initial low % capture of that 660b AUM / gold mcap, like 1-2% optimistically, within the next 5 years. None of this will happen overnight, the only thing that happens over night is pump and dump VC / whale scam tokens. Link is a 20 year hold chuddies

[Anonymous No.56557695]

>>56557664
i know it is a slow progress.
i´m just saying people are going to go for truth instead of trust in the long run and i think the gold markets is going to change drastically because of it.

the goldbugs should be all over this.
they are not.

[Anonymous No.56557700]

>>56556821
>Or you could just… get physical gold bullion
this is so fucking dumb

[Anonymous No.56557720]

>>56556796
>which is actually backed
what's the difference between being told a digital token is backed by gold and being told an etf is backed by gold?

[Anonymous No.56557737]

>>56556719
The first mistake was ever trusting Chainlink to begin with. I won’t believe anything those people say until they actually release a function product (no beta versions don’t count) AND actual institutions are using their product AND no testing and experiments don’t count.

[Anonymous No.56557743]

>>56557720
being told is the problem.
i want it verified.

[Anonymous No.56557756]

>>56557737
i am not going in discussion with you because you are stupid.

[Anonymous No.56557885]

>>56557743
>being told is the problem
i never asked you about a problem. i asked you what the difference between the two is

[Anonymous No.56557893]

>>56556719
How would the reserves get proven in a better way than GLD proves its reserves?

[Anonymous No.56557941]

>>56556717
If you can't hold the gold you don't own it. Don't fall for the (((tokenized assets))) scam, stack actual physical metals.

[Anonymous No.56557979]

>>56557893
>>56557941
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPURU6Sq2yo

[Anonymous No.56557984]

i got about 15oz of gold. whole point of gold is to hold it physically. but if this chainlink doohicky pumps the price somehow, i'm all for it

[Anonymous No.56558004]

>>56556796
>>56557720
Wait genuine question. When chainlink data providers provide info on the amount of gold on in a vault, wouldnt they just be grabbing from whoever is controlling the vault's servers which is slightly better than a paper promise as its a constant stream of data but still subject to lying/manipulation? Someone enlighten me.

Unless we start having these gold vaults where you have various people of different parties constantly checking the price or a single gold vault in which sensors or real time camera feeds are placed but the sensors and camera feeds are from multiple parties that are clearly not colluding.

[Anonymous No.56558014]

>>56558004
json parser solves no problem
it is trusted and not decentralized and it is not an oracle

[Anonymous No.56558023]

>>56558014
stfu

[Anonymous No.56558032]

>>56558023
token not needed
if you will parse jsons then why not just pay in USDT ???

[Anonymous No.56558043]

>>56558032
i tell ya what

[Anonymous No.56558064]

>>56558043
I will tell you some more.
Binance offers all what chainlink does for free.

[Anonymous No.56558200]

>>56556717
PMs for the regular man have to be held physically.
It may be interesting for large insurance or pension companies, but only idiots would buy PMs as paper.

[Anonymous No.56558323]

>>56558004
I agree. who's to say someone hasn't taken the physical gold and replaced it with blocks of cheese? I'm unsure how a digital token 'proves' the gold's existence in any more a meaningful way than the etf does

[Anonymous No.56558385]

>>56558004
It's an interesting problem that might have some solutions in modern technology with IOT and ML technology. I could envision a series of vault racks with pressure sensors that measure the weight of gold bars placed on top in conjunction with machine vision cameras that allow the measurement of the size and color of the gold bars. This is still a partial solution though because there is always the custody problem that the custodian is going to be messing with these technological systems.

In the future I can imagine maybe a completely automated gold vault with a series of external auditors and maintainers with none of them having full access to the vault. The vault would have to be governed by a purpose built AI which may serve as the trustless custodian.

[Anonymous No.56558394]

>>56558323
Oh someone answered it in another thread I created >>56558105.

Of course I'm trusting this anon but it seems chainlink isn't necessarily just multiple data providers grabbing multiple server data and coming to a consensus. The whole part of multiple consensus is done at the sensor level which is considered part of the chainlink process still if I'm not mistaken. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this as I though the chainlink process was limited to being able to have multiple data providers pull from multiple server data and coming to a consensus but if the anon in the other thread knows what hes talking about it goes to the hardware level as well. Now I dont understand why couldn't the multiple sensor providers just collude at that point but it at least is a start for my understanding

[Anonymous No.56558399]

>>56557885
The difference is that supposedly the tokenised version will have to verify that it is connected to a specific 0.001 troy ounce of gold.

I personally would like an explanation as to how they will be doing that but I can't find one.

[Anonymous No.56558405]

>>56558385
But see, you're talking about it in a hypothetical its not a solved problem. Isn't this something Chainlink has solved and we can all feel comfertable with physical asset verification from now on?

[Anonymous No.56558418]

>>56557979
There isn't any confirmation that they're using chainlink to do this. They could easily be using an entirely custom system that they can manipulate.

[Anonymous No.56558580]

>>56556717
fractionalised physical gold already existed for years for retail
bullionvault for instance is pretty good for this purpose, there really isnt a token or oracle needed here as both the phys collateral and the depositor claims have to be checked by a third party that can be as corrupt as can be

so if you want to trade gold there already exist deeply liquid online markets and if you are a goldbug this is just another paper gold leveraged 200 to 1 unbacked

[Anonymous No.56558719]

>>56558405
Lmao

[Anonymous No.56559840]

>>56558004
>>56558014
>>56558323
>>56558394
>>56558580

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPURU6Sq2yo

i already posted the video from the 16th minute they are showing how they do it.

i don´t trust the institutions with their third parties saying the gold is in the vault, and you should neither.

[Anonymous No.56561380]

>>56556717
origyn is already doing that on icp

[Anonymous No.56561447]

>>56559840
it still seems centralized. Its his own sensors and shit