/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.56287070]

The "crypto as an alternative to the traditional banking system" narrative is a joke. World governments don't want you to have independent currencies. If you're in charge of running a government, why would you want your populace to just invent a money and use that instead of your own? But, I don't think it's something that most governments desire to outright ban, either. Governments stand to make some nice tax revenue on the gains realized in trades. Some business models can benefit from blockchain technology. And exchanges stand to make money even on just trading fees, regardless of price action. Investment firms across the world have their own strategies to generate profits. So there are good incentives to not ban it.

The strongest arguments I think for banning it are to combat the dodging of taxes, capital controls, and sanctions. As well as fraud. But there already exist methods to track crypto and people down for these crimes, and those methods are constantly being improved. Plus, these issues already exist in the traditional banking system so it wouldn't make sense to arbitrarily not let people use cryptocurrency.

Crypto really is just an online stock and commodity market. Everything is priced in your local currency (some people will price things in other cryptocurrencies. nobody really cares about that though.), and when you buy and receive coins or tokens, those are either commodities, or securities. For example bitcoin is its own commodity, and PAXG is a representation of gold (a commodity) that you can redeem. You can go out and buy tokens that give you -most- of the same kinds of rights in the issuing company (or in this case crypto project) as company stock. You can buy tokens that give you better fee rates when exchanging various cryptocurrencies on exchanges.

[Anonymous No.56287083]

>>56287070
But, it's a bit more than that. With these coins you can easily swap and trade them outside of traditional trading hours, and they are accepted as currency too. Imagine the current day stock market, except you can take your AAPL, RTX, SCHW, or whatever and use it to go on Amazon to buy your favorite sex toy. And you don't have to use the whole share; it can be divided down to a fraction of a whole share.

I think this is what will eventually happen. Cryptocurrencies will indeed be used as currencies, but there is also inherently an investment aspect to them. And because of this they are going to be regulated like currency and like equities.

[Anonymous No.56287129]

>>56287083
I think "Crypto" is less monolithic than that, it's more like a framework enabling invention, the same way the internet is. You can build all kinds of things using cryptosystems. There can't really be a one-size-fits-all regulatory approach

[Anonymous No.56287175]

>>56287129
Blockchain technology is certainly a framework enabling intervention. Once monetary transactions on blockchain come into the picture though, that changes things. For example I wouldn't really see the point of the SEC/CFTC regulating a hospital using a blockchain server to store sensitive health data and that would need its own regulation. But I would see the point of those institutions regulating anything you see listed on coinbase or binance.

[sage No.56287210]

>>56287070
you sound like you are from 2017. Holy fuck update your reading material its OK to call it bitcoin now

[Anonymous No.56287222]

Hobbes's Leviathan is a Meme Complex as per Dawkins, Law is ex post facto codification of prevailing meme complexes, Law has no power, State has no power, meme complexes hold all the power attributed to these institutions. The world is bottom up not top down, emergent, organic, the State a dying memetic parasite, feebly grasping for relevancy after technology obsolesced it's function (propagation & memetic convergence) within the meme complex. "Nothing ever happens" "everything is fake and gay" why? Because the State is dying, if not already dead, a bloated memetic corpse puppeteered by grifters.

The last meaningful lever the Statists have is fiat, from which their influence over Economy rests, but this influence is perverse and inefficient, while Economy is naturally positive sum, fiat allows the manipulation of Economy to favor zero and even negative sum economic transactions. Blasphemy! Economy will not abide -- "The market ahh finds a way" -- and a way it found. You know the path, you just need to follow it.

[Anonymous No.56287269]

>>56287210
no, molto ritard, we are talking about the entire market, not just bitcoin
>>56287222
buy bitcoin; States are not going anywhere

[Anonymous No.56287726]

>>56287269
The State, as a memetic entity, is dead or dying, BTC's Becoming is the final nail in the coffin.

[Anonymous No.56287743]

>>56287726
States have been around for as long as there have been people. What do you mean by "memetic entity"?

[Anonymous No.56288007]

>>56287743
>States have been around for as long as there have been people.
That's extrapolation into the past, but we know that it's historically not true. Something like a state requires a certain level of centralization, and people have always resisted something like that. For most of history, people either didn't live under any state, or only nominally, being left mostly to their own devices. A heavily centralized state that regulates all aspects of its citizens' lives is really a post-WWII development, so extremely recent.
>memetic entity
A state, like a corporation, or a club, exists in people's minds. The French state, for example, exists because people behave as if it existed, thus it exists. If all the government officials and employees tomorrow decided that they wanted to quit their jobs, then there'd be no French state. It's memes in people's heads that create these entities; you could even say that any state is a kind of elaborate social game that large groups of people play.

[Anonymous No.56288011]

>>56287070
>PAXG is a representation of gold (a commodity) that you can redeem
I can already see the collapse of PAXG from here when it'll turn out that they don't have the gold.

[Anonymous No.56288072]

>>56288007
Throughout history, except for maybe hermits, people have lived under a State. Even hunter-gatherer societies have a semblance of a State. The Greek city-states, the Western, Eastern, and Holy Roman empires, the various Gallic tribes, the Golden Horde, etc. People crave organization and will gladly pay taxes to secure all the nice things and protection that entails. Maybe if everyone in the world spontaneously chose to not want to organize a State ever again, then the memetic entity of the State would fail. But that's not feasible. As long as there are those who crave organization, power, money, etc. there will exist States.

[Anonymous No.56288168]

>>56288072
>Even hunter-gatherer societies have a semblance of a State.
We can call that a "state" if we want, but it really would have nothing in common with our modern definition of a state, it'd just be a re-used word. Consider, though, if you will: would not the modern state claim that whatever informal meetings some hunter-gatherers had "already basically was a state"? That's awfully convenient, trying to essentially define one's way all the way to victory with no argument needed.
The second issue is that the level of control and surveillance exerted over people would have been unthinkable in any of the states you mentioned, and would be viewed as abhorrent. The closest example to our modern states I can think of would be the Inca Empire, which assigned everyone's spouse and job centrally, but never in a million years would anyone in Athens or Rome imagined today's degree of micromanagement.

[Anonymous No.56288201]

>>56288168
However, it's true.

[Anonymous No.56288305]

>>56288201
What's true?

[Anonymous No.56288319]

>World governments don't want you to have independent currencies
Stopped reading here.

You really don't get it, do you?

[Anonymous No.56288347]

>he thinks a source of collateral institutions can freely manipulate via cexes is ever fucking going away
They could give a shit if you have a cold wallet, they can just beat you until you give them the keys. There's many reasons why crypto will exist but you're way overthinking it, and if it seriously threatened legacy finance it'd have been killed off like Kennedy a long time ago. It's been captured in every possible way.
>buy bitcoin; States are not going anywhere
Is the only post in this thread that has any value or basis in reality

[Anonymous No.56288368]

>>56287070
The traditional system we use right now is fundamentally broken and because of that all of the national currencies are heading towards a hyperinflation and collapse. It's literally not meant to last long. By design. Bitcoin is meant to last long. And no central authority prints it at will. As time goes on more and more governments will notice that their issues have the same root as the people,s issues. A fundamentally broken financial system. The switch is inevitable. But it might take a other 100 years or so. A non governmental world wide asset , money and currency is a benifit to literally all players in the entire world. Even the so called elites and people who have all the power and wealth benifit from this better system. It will be adopted.