Real Estate Guy Here.

[Anonymous No.56160058]

House prices aren't actually that bad. I survey multiple counties in a middle-class region and the typical home is around the $250k mark. That's even after the crazy inflation over the past few years. Buying a home is obviously always going to be a thorn in your side, but putting a down payment on one isn't some impossible task provided you can save 10-15% of your mortgage.

Again, this is MIDDLE CLASS. If you want an upper class home, it'll be typically be above $600k, and the main reason it's so high is because your equity is exponentially increasing in the current market. "Upper middle class" is a meme, because it's too vague and can describe anything from a shithole pod in NYC to an entire townhome complex. Likewise, lower middle class usually just means you're living around a lot of minorities, so of course the property will be cheaper given that the land itself has less value.

But a lot of people aren't middle class. There are countless homes across the country, not in crime-ridden zones either, which you can purchase for well under $100k and have all the same amenities as everyone else. It's not gonna be a trailer park, it's not gonna need a fuckton of improvements (upkeep is not the same thing, morons) and it usually has way more acreage if you want to build sheds or have a farm on the side, instead of a tiny ass backyard.

>Wh-What about Zillow? I only see expensive properties on there, anon!

It's fucking Zillow, dude. The Internet is not real life. Just like plenty of nice girls are out there, plenty of nice properties are waiting to be scooped up. So it's not your dream home, so what? If you truly want a place to live and don't want to be a rentcuck, just go outside.

[Anonymous No.56160077]

How should I find these homes not on the internet? Also would you say a town home or condo is a good purchase?

[Anonymous No.56160092]

>>56160058
>$250k mark
that's $150k below the national median price. you must live in some rural shithole. what's the median household income in your area?
>down payment
the holdup is monthly payment, not down payment. why are real estate morons like this? it's the opposite problem that normalnigers exhibit when talking about cars (fixation on monthly payment), truly puzzling.

[Anonymous No.56160141]

>>56160077
Grab a newspaper and look for foreclosure sales or recent estates. Get an idea of what places seem further out from the center of a city and check for open properties.
>>56160092
I was being generous. In my town a random house will be above $300k, with the median being somewhere in the realm of $350k. Fan out a bit and it drops like an anvil.
Anyways no, if you think the problem is sustaining a monthly payment you're extremely retarded. The issue is RISK ASSESSMENT. Many homes are out of reach not because of immediate affordability, it's because the insurers and HOA need proof beyond employment and down payment, they need long-tern assurance you won't literally die or get evicted before you pay off the fucking thing.

[Anonymous No.56160165]

>>56160092
They fixate on it because they've been taught to do it by the respective industries.
"Hey look it's only 40k for the down payement" without mentionning the total cost of the mortgage, or "come on it's only 700 a month" and forget that's for seven years on a basic Toyota or whatever.

[Anonymous No.56160245]

>>56160141
>ignores my question about median household income
>talks about monthly payment not being a problem
i'm an accountant you dumb fucking used house salesman nigger.

[Anonymous No.56160285]

>>56160245
Cool, what does filling out Excel sheets have to do with housing?

[Anonymous No.56160331]

>>56160285
do you have an adult learning disability? i understand the bar for becoming a realtor is extremely low, but surely your 75 hours of education must cover the basics of calculating loan payments and topics like limits on debt to income ratio?

[Anonymous No.56160352]

>>56160058
>I survey multiple counties in a middle-class region and the typical home is around the $250k mark
Well good for you anon. It's not the case here. Not even close.

[Anonymous No.56160420]

>>56160331
>He thinks I'm a realtor
Buddy, dozens of people work in the housing market besides landlords and salesman.
>>56160352
It's the case for over 50% of America. Averages, and all that.

[Anonymous No.56160609]

>>56160058
yeah, you're an idiot, mate. the only smart thing you did was refer to yourself as a 'real estate guy', meaning you aren't advertising any sort of professional standards along with your retarded opinion.

>first paragraph
home prices in any given area are inextricably linked with incomes in that area. always have been, always will be. if you're looking at houses with a $250k median price in an area, you're looking at a place in which the median salary supports that price. given the fact that median salaries have risen 50% over the past few years, a middle class neighborhood will see home prices follow along with that. if they aren't (and at 250k, they aren't), you're not talking about a middle class neighborhood, you're talking about a poor neighborhood. median salary below national average. home prices reflect it.

>2nd paragraph
what in the fuck are you talking about. equity doesn't just 'exponentially increase' anywhere. do you know what an exponential increase is? and would you care to explain WHY people are getting bonus equity in their houses? it's because REITs created an insane supply shortage by buying up SFRs all over the country and turning them into rental properties, which in turn jacked up price because it made available homes a more scarce product. actual 'equity' in homes is actually decreasing, because buyer purchasing power is decreased by high interest rates on loans. buyers determine median prices in an area, sellers do not. and buyers have less money because more of their purchasing power is tied up in interest. so the 'exponential equity' you're bullshitting is technically just a paper tiger, because you're talking about houses who are listed at values they can't fetch from the broader market of buyers. if they did, they wouldn't be sitting on zillow at 600k.

cont

[Anonymous No.56160623]

>>56160058
Only retards rent.

[Anonymous No.56160673]

>>56160609
>3rd paragraph

no, you can't just purchase homes for cheap because the people who are living in them aren't middle class. the reason has nothing to do with property values, it has to do with debt. poor people have more debt. they have higher LTVs on real estate they own, and the US just set a record for credit card debt. people are under financial duress to sell their houses, but they have to try to capture a high price just to make right on these debts. buyers can't overpay because their purchasing power is tied up in interest on their loans. it's why so many real estate markets are stalling. sellers need to net, say, 300k just to make it out of their current debt situation by selling their house, but buyers can't pay it. if the seller is stuck between staying in a house and being broke, or selling the house and still being broke, many will stay put.

>4th paragraph
are you actually suggesting that their are more homes for sale which are not shown on an MLS (which zillow pulls from), than those that are? if you wanted to advertise your business, would you put a billboard on the side of a crowded highway, or put a message in a bottle out to sea? anyone who wants to sell a house puts it where it has visibility.

fucking realtors and house hackers have the financial literacy of a five year old. actually, that might be too insulting to the five year old. i operate and manage a real estate brokerage with 200+ agents and salaried staff and if i ever heard anybody there trying to push these fictitious narratives on one of their clients i'd fire them before they finished drooling out the rest of their stupid fucking sales pitch.

[Anonymous No.56160769]

>>56160673
>>56160609
>All this word salad
>Just to end on a no true scotsman fallacy
I research land and improvement values, I look at commercial listings as well as residential and I literally pore over deeds. I don't need to prove anything to you.
I proved with evidence that anyone can afford a home if they stop letting the Internet make them anxious, and you start giving me a history lesson as some weird cope.
>You're not talking about a middle class neighborhood, you're talking about a poor neighborhood.
No, I'm talking about lower to lower middle class regions, not neighborhoods. Stop with the conflation.

The rest of your post is nonsense and might as well be off-topic. You just have an axe to grind.

[Anonymous No.56160865]

>>56160769
>I proved with evidence that anyone can afford a home if they stop letting the Internet make them anxious
you expect me to believe that you, a person who is employed as an analyst in the real estate industry, has looked at the state of the market today and has arrived at the conclusion that the reason why people can't find a home they can afford is anxiety and a fixation on online listings? what evidence are you referring to? you haven't provided a single concrete example for any of your claims, you've mostly just gone and tried to convince people here that lower class neighborhoods are actually middle class. this is a tactic of a desperate salesperson.

me calling you out for being a retard isn't an example of no true scotsman. i spent two posts explaining all the ways in which you're a moron. you're very much a true scotsman. but the scotsman, in this case, is not a competent analyst. the scotsman is a driveling idiot who clearly does not understand debt or how it relates to real property markets.

[Anonymous No.56160926]

>>56160865
Considering there are bots on multiple boards, including this one, reposting threads claiming that zero houses in the Western world are affordable, yes I am inclined to believe many are just anxious and afraid to look outside the limited bubble presented through the Internet.
I think it's also very unfair to present to people a reality in which the options are to become bound to an upsold property with an unfair mortgage just because they think it's all there is, or to be a terminal rentoid.
But then again, you've already revealed your hand, you want that because it's your strata, you gaslight people like me into removing the wool from people's eyes because without it your bottom line is affected. Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.56160970]

>>56160058
Upper Middle Class is a rollicking good time is what it is, Bob Segar fuckin rules.

[Anonymous No.56161137]

>>56160058
you have to be insane or forced to move to buy in this current market

[Anonymous No.56161164]

>>56161137
Just rent for the next 5 years bro!

Own nothing and be happy :)

[Anonymous No.56161189]

>>56160058
You are going to be out of work very soon you goddamn parasite

[Anonymous No.56161345]

>>56160058
Median income of home buyers is over 100k. Median home price is 410k.

[Anonymous No.56161471]

>>56160058
How can I politely tell my realtor that I just want to live around white people? What's the code word for that?

Where I live it's illegal for a broker to not show us an area or to discriminate on behalf of the buyer. We have to say "Don't show us neighborhood X." The consequence is that they waste our time every weekend with houses we would never had any interest in to begin with because the neighborhood sucks.

[Anonymous No.56161516]

>>56161137
>>56160865
The price of the home at the end of the day is not relevant to me. What I want is a lifestyle. Until i can upload my brain into a cyborg body that requires no food or sleep I have to live somewhere. Right now I'm renting which means every month I throw my money into the toilet. I'm also renting in an area that I don't love to live in and which doesn't provide the lifestyle I want.

If you buy a home at a great price and it goes up in value over 20 years, but you hated every minute you lived there, I'd say you made a mistake.

[Anonymous No.56161528]

>>56160926
holy shit this is just an exceptional level of delusion. do you truly believe that the primary challenge faced by prospective homebuyers in 2023 is the fact that bots are astroturfing people on /biz/? all of the technical analyses you've performed led you to that sole conclusion? i'm still waiting for the evidence of the supposed tidal wave of unlisted, invisible properties you've referred to more than once as well.

gaslighting is the practice of making people believe in a fictitious version of reality. i'm talking about numbers. there's no gaslighting in the statement 'if a buyer of real estate has to pay a greater amount of interest to the bank in order to secure a loan, their purchasing power is lessened by that amount of interest'. there's no gaslighting in the statement that 'higher collective debt puts pressure on homeowners to attempt to secure higher prices for their real estate in order to make those debts whole and still come out of the transaction with enough solvency to move somewhere else'.

you're trying to find a psychological reason for the why the real estate market sucks. the reason why the real estate market sucks right now is financial, not psychological. you watched the market move from a low interest environment to a high interest environment. whatever psychological repercussions you derive from that shift are a symptom of market dynamics, not a cause of them. you're conflating cause and effect at best, and being intentionally retarded at worst.

>>56161471
do you want to live around white people regardless of whether or not they're white trash? or just classy whites? if you want to live with classy whites, repeat after me.

'i want to live in a house that's zoned for the most highly-funded public schools in the area, preferably with an abundance of golf courses or country clubs nearby.'

[Anonymous No.56161576]

>>56161516
>The price of the home at the end of the day is not relevant to me. What I want is a lifestyle. Until i can upload my brain into a cyborg body that requires no food or sleep I have to live somewhere. Right now I'm renting which means every month I throw my money into the toilet. I'm also renting in an area that I don't love to live in and which doesn't provide the lifestyle I want.

can you be more specific? what 'lifestyle' are you pursuing? do you want to be able to walk everywhere? do you want to live on a golf course? do you want most of your neighbors to look like you and think like you?

the truth is that all of those things are within your grasp regardless of the house you're looking at. lifestyle and real estate aren't combined by necessity, people do it to sell real estate at a premium by attaching other amenities to the standard privileges of ownership.

[Anonymous No.56161598]

>>56161528
>'i want to live in a house that's zoned for the most highly-funded public schools in the area, preferably with an abundance of golf courses or country clubs nearby.'
Alright that's like 50% of the problem. What about saying "I don't want to live near black people?" I can tolerate most other minority folks but the Basketball Americans are uniquely awful to live around.

[Anonymous No.56161631]

>>56161598
if you say exactly what i said to your agent, and your agent listens to you word for word, there will be no basketball americans in any of the houses you see, 95% of the time. the other 5% you'll have one or two highly whitewashed black families living in the neighborhood and i can guarantee you that they hate ghetto blacks much more than you do.

ghetto blacks do not live in places where the property taxes support high-tier public education. they simply can't afford to, and section eight can't put them there.

[Anonymous No.56161651]

>>56160058
>Real Estate Guy Here

Opinion discarded. Not buying your bags.

[Anonymous No.56161677]

>>56160058
"House prices aren't actually that bad."

thats how i know you're a real estate guy because you're fucking delusional

[Anonymous No.56161698]

>>56161576
I want to live near my parents and in-laws, which are my son's grandparents. This would also put us near most of our extended family. This would give my son the opportunity to know his grandparents, cousins, uncles, etc.
You can't reproduce that in some other area and you can't put a price on the value of raising a kid in that setting.
It will be expensive for me but the alternative just isn't acceptable to me.

[Anonymous No.56161709]

>>56161631

[Anonymous No.56161752]

>>56161698
that's not a lifestyle, that's a location. draw some boundaries on a map that place you suitably close to those people and set a bi-weekly home listing update. wait for something to pop up that works for you, then go buy it.

if you were telling people that your location preferences are a 'lifestyle' thing then you were probably confusing the shit out of them. you just want to be close to the folks.

[Anonymous No.56162048]

>>56161752
Dedicating time to family and raising kids is absolutely a lifestyle. It demands a huge amount of my time. Pretty much my whole schedule revolves around it. I'll concede that it's location dependent but I think you're failing to read between the lines here. Family oriented people want:
>Good schools because duh
>Nice public parks
>A backyard and enough space to host guests
>Multiple bedrooms
>Low crime rate
>Low pollution
>Two car garage
>Close enough to a main street or downtown area with recreational spots
Are you telling me that there are cheap houses that fit this criteria? There's constantly people posting houses on this board that cost $120k and they're square dab in the middle of Fentanyltown, which completely misses the point of why anyone wants to do this to begin with.

[Anonymous No.56162103]

>>56162048
>Dedicating time to family and raising kids is absolutely a lifestyle
yes, but when you talk about lifestyle in real estate, you're talking about specific amenities which are usually available only to a subdivided community in which you are moving into. go tell a real estate agent that your primary motivation for moving is 'lifestyle' and that person will send you 4 hours away from your relatives, because you didn't tell him that your priority was location.

>house description
>Are you telling me that there are cheap houses that fit this criteria?
depends on where you want to live and depends on what you consider cheap. i have no idea about either, so i can't really give you an answer.

>There's constantly people posting houses on this board that cost $120k and they're square dab in the middle of Fentanyltown, which completely misses the point of why anyone wants to do this to begin with.

do you know how to use a map tool and draw a boundary? every single listing service, whether it's through a brokerage or on zillow, has this feature. if you've hired a real estate agent and told this person that you want to live near your relatives and they keep trying to send you to the hood, fire that person. then hire one who will tell you what is most likely the truth that the old one was avoiding - you can't afford to live in this specific area you want to live in. only fixes for that are to look at different locations, or make more money.

[Anonymous No.56162117]

>>56160141
What's the point of your initial post if you were being generous by low balling the estimates?

[Anonymous No.56162663]

>>56162103
>House prices aren't actually that bad.
>But if you want to live in a decent home in a nice neighborhood near people you care about that's probably unaffordable.
It took three hours for you to basically concede that you have nothing of value to tell us.

[Anonymous No.56162682]

>>56162663
Based

[Anonymous No.56162891]

>>56161164
renting (at a reasonable cost) and waiting 3-5 is a very sound thing to do in the current market, especially for younger people who need to build savings, credit, etc.
>>56161516
>Right now I'm renting which means every month I throw my money into the toilet. I'm also renting in an area that I don't love to live in and which doesn't provide the lifestyle I want.
imagine if instead you bought some shit flip house (which is mostly whats on the market now) in that same area just to "buy now or be priced out forever." you're fine, you're already thinking ahead so don't get yourself underwater on a bad house and/or bad mortgage.

[Anonymous No.56163126]

>>56160058
Thanks for the info, anon. So would you say that it's Zillow that inflates the prices, or that going in Zillow instead of better channels is a kind of IQ-test?

[Anonymous No.56163454]

>>56162663
i'm not op, i never said home prices weren't bad.

[Anonymous No.56163463]

>>56160141
>250k? I meant 300k. 350k is a great price for a median house! 400k? That's still affordable. Thankfully most houses here are only listed for 450k!
this is you

[Anonymous No.56163514]

>>56160058
>I research land and improvement values, I look at commercial listings as well as residential
can you help me with this? where do you get your data from, other than ad listing websites? I automated a bunch of search tools but can't find shit worth buying even after quite a lot of time... are there hidden gems out there?

[Anonymous No.56163580]

>>56161598
>I can tolerate most other minority

White people don't say this.

[Anonymous No.56163591]

>>56162663
LOL true

[Anonymous No.56163775]

>>56162048
I would add walkability and tree-lined streets. They don't build hundred year old trees lining streets that take you downtown to great restaurants/bars for date night with your wife anymore. All the new construction is suburban strip mall garbage. Cities with walkable downtowns, outdoor restaurants, nightlife (bars), and community events are becoming increasingly rare. Find one of those towns with virtually all white people and highly rated schools and you've found a unicorn.

Plenty of communities exist in the suburbs with good schools, low crime, multiple bedrooms, 2-car garage. They'll be great for a decade, then they'll build the exact same community with more homes jammed into the same space slightly further out. These areas will never maintain their desirability, all it takes is a handful of annoying families to move in and everyone bails, the school test scores tank, and people are left bag holding in a 50% white community.

[Anonymous No.56163880]

>>56163775
>Find one of those towns with virtually all white people and highly rated schools and you've found a unicorn.
larger cities in vermont, new hampshire, and maine. fucking expensive to live there, though.

[Anonymous No.56163927]

>>56160141
So they need proof a recession isn't coming?
I guess the only option is to pay in cash.
Wish I coulda taken advantage of that 3% down first homebuyers loan, my credits been above 750 me entire life.

[Anonymous No.56164004]

>>56161164
Yeah, if you're young and just got a set of skills and are now walking into your first career or profession, buying is shoe on head levels of fucking retarded. 3-5 years of renting is the obvious choice in an obvious ATH housing hyper bubble.

I don't particularly care if you think just opening the border and flooding in endless millions of spics or le AI revolution will save your top-buying retard investment from deflating. The competency crisis is real and here and is gonna drag every chart number you care about through the floor with it.

[Anonymous No.56164207]

>>56160058
I prefer to keep renting since it's cheaper and I can pay with my CryptMi card where I'll get some cashback, and also I can easily change my location whenever I feel wish

[Anonymous No.56164257]

>>56160141
holy shit kys you disingenuous jew

[Anonymous No.56164456]

>>56164207
I think you like the nomadic lifestyle, and that's a good crypto card there.

[Anonymous No.56164787]

>>56163880
People don't understand that home buyers aren't the "average" person in this country. The median income of people buying homes is 100k. The majority of home buyers are couples pooling incomes together. Poor people rent.

A couple with a combined 100k salary that is able to put 20% down (75k) will qualify for a 429k mortgage - virtually the same amount as the median home value.

There's no difference between people complaining about housing prices, and hypergamy of women in the dating market.

[Anonymous No.56165166]

>>56160865
Yo bro what stocks and crypto you holding?

[Anonymous No.56165592]

shit, east coast is like twice cheaper than washington across the board
is it because of the niggers?

[Anonymous No.56165600]

>>56165592
yes, and mexicans.

[Anonymous No.56165651]

>>56160058
yeah basically. i have $40k+ liquid right now, and a promise of $24k repaid interest-free over 24 months from my mother, on a $350k house (my state is more expensive than the norm)

it's totally doable. i've actually decided to take a break from my lifestyle and only work one full time job, though i know i can support two FT jobs for a solid quarter mill income as long as it takes to pay off

[Bobo No.56165732]

Per my calculations real estate prices are in relative terms at an early 1960s level on a per foot basis. BUT homes are larger meaning in real terms it's harder for the average wagie to afford one.