How do you refute such ignorance?

[Anonymous No.56108213]

I don't even know where to start to reply to this without painfully detailing thousands of years of history and well, explaining BTC. Anyone got a pithy response to this?

[Anonymous No.56108244]

>>56108213
>central banks are privately owned
>i have to maintain my budget, why don't these fucking parasites?

[Anonymous No.56108248]

>>56108213
He’s not wrong. Fiat was conceived to facilitate exchange at the expense of some level of security. No one is preventing you from holding the schizo “asset” of your choice.

[Anonymous No.56108251]

>>56108213
Explain to me how and why those statements are "ignorant" in three sentences or less. If you can't do that, you might not be as "educated" about the subject as you seem to think.

[Anonymous No.56108289]

>>56108251
Well, this is why I'm asking but I'll give it a go. Giving any entity the power over the issuance of money breeds corruption and requires trust, central banks have never been accountable to the public (you couldn't just walk in and audit and assay the gold at Fort Knox). All fiat currencies through history have failed due to hyperinflation and debasement because of corruption.

[Anonymous No.56108408]

>>56108289
OK, now explain to me how those statements don't apply to today's crypto economy.
>Rug pulls
>Hacks and Attacks
>Mostly centralized
>Many crypto projects hyperinflating right now

[Anonymous No.56108439]

>>56108408
None of it applies to Bitcoin, which is the only think I'm advocating for.

[Anonymous No.56108468]

>>56108439
Two mining pools account for over 51% of Bitcoin's hash rate.
>https://cryptoslate.com/behind-the-two-mining-pools-controlling-51-percent-of-the-global-hash-rate/

[Anonymous No.56108699]

>>56108468
This is tiresome old fud.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPqyusHH850

[Anonymous No.56108872]

>>56108244
Cool it with the anti-semitism.

[Anonymous No.56108879]

>>56108699
0:40
>"Now this is true if you take a look at it"
Regarding the centralization of bitcoin mining pools.
4:16
>"Now this is not a theoretical problem"
Regarding liquidity issues or shady shit by the largest Bitcoin mining pools.
5:42
>"ASIC centralization is an actual problem, unlike mining pool centralization."
And guess what - ASIC production is centralized in one company called Bitmain.
>The ASIC manufacturing industry is an oligopoly, giving these companies a very high bargaining power. Bitcoin miners can rarely negotiate the offered ASIC prices. Anyone involved in the bitcoin mining industry knows the grip Bitmain and other suppliers have on the ASIC market.

So the manufacturers of the materials used to mine Bitcoin is a highly centralized oligarchy and the mining pools are also extremely centralized which facilitates money laundering and foreign governments evading economic sanctions.
>“we find that nearly $1.8 billion in illicit cryptocurrency has moved to deposit addresses with heavy mining exposure,” Chainalysis said.
>Previous studies have shown how sanctioned governments like Iran and North Korea have used Bitcoin mining to generate funds outside the sanctions.

This sums it up nicely:
>I’m taking here the concept of power to be the people who can prevent your transaction being committed. I am aware that nodes have a key role in the construction of an individual block, and that there are around 15,000 of them, but those are at best the equivalent of bank branches or tellers, they are your on-ramp, but it is only the miners who can validate or reject the whole block. The nodes are important, but they don’t have the power, any more than an individual branch has power when taken in the context of a bank.

You know what solves all of these issues? The fiat currency described in the OP.

[Anonymous No.56109012]

>>56108879
Even if Asics weren't available bitcoin mining could be done by regular computers although, granted, it would make the chain slow as hell.
But your scenario is like saying communism would be a perfect system if it were run honestly or people could live in peace if wars weren't started. We have thousands of years of history with fiat money and this concept of honest actors in money creation has never panned out, what's your solution to this? Seems like a bit of a pipe dream to me.

[Anonymous No.56109036]

>>56108213
Imagine perceiving ignorance and you can't even counter it. You obviously don't even understand your position!

[Anonymous No.56109052]

>>56109036
I addressed the problem with trusting central authorities with the issuance of money, I have not heard a good counter argument and you do not provide one.

[Anonymous No.56109373]

>>56109012
So it's important to remember the origin of this conversation was you finding the OP fiat currency system "ignorant" compared to Bitcoin. My only intention is addressing that gap in your logic. OP's fiat monetary system is not actually ignorant. Imperfect? Yes. Ignorant? No. There's a difference.

To your other points:
>Even if Asics weren't available bitcoin mining could be done by regular computers although, granted, it would make the chain slow as hell.
It already is slow as hell compared to the fiat money system. The OP's picture sums it up.
>But your scenario is like
No it's not because you're comparing vastly different things. Figure out how to speak your point more directly and concretely.
> this concept of honest actors in money creation has never panned out
This also applies to BTC.
> what's your solution to this?
There is no perfect solution to this at the current time, including BTC. There is no solution to human deceit and greed; there is only management. What we have is something that has been used imperfectly but successfully for thousands of years.

There is no endless certainty in life. Money systems need to change and adapt to the new uses to which they are put. At this time, we have several "anchors" on value which is what money reflects - finite amounts of metals and commodities with various "shelf lives" like timber and wheat.

If Bitcoin ever manages to address an actual issue in real life, it will take it's place as an additional "anchor" in the system but will not replace said system.

[Anonymous No.56109706]

>>56109373
What I found ignorant about the post was the faith they placed in a utopian scenario that has never existed, nor can exist considering human nature. I can't think of a single time in history in which the power to create money was not used for self serving interest. The Spartan iron coinage possibly but accounts are a bit sparse in that area. If you can think of any historical examples I'd like to hear them.

There is also the issue of BTC being "hacked"; if SHA-256 is broken then so are all secure systems in the world and BTC would certainly not be the first target.

You changed goalposts when you backed away from mining pool centralization as they are not static and hash power can easily be removed from any bad actor. ASIC production centralization is a concern, as well as the fact that they eventually burn out meaning the BTC will depend on complex logistics and fabrication far in the future if it to survive.

The lightning network solves the speed issue and it too is highly decentralized.

Fiat systems based on commodities require a great deal of trust, and as we've seem in the past decades, corruption creeps in and snowballs until we get a situation like we're in now, an empire happily printing money out of nothing to fund war. This would not be possible if the currency was based on BTC or something like it, which is open and transparent.

Now I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, and always open to good conversation which is why I made this thread in the first place. Thank you for engaging.

[Anonymous No.56110336]

>>56109706
>Now I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong
No you're not. You want to be "right" like most other humans. I find your fake modesty ignorant... lol.
> the faith they placed in a utopian scenario that has never existed
That's you projecting. The OP's picture doesn't factually contain that.
>I can't think of a single time in history
You are not sufficiently educated in history to make that statement.
>the power to create money was not used for self serving interest
This is an over simplification. You haven't thought critically enough about whose "self" is being served or why the system evolved into what it is today. It's like when people say "the government" but have no idea to what or whom they are referring.
>You changed goalposts when you backed away from mining pool centralization
No, this is directly addressed here:
>the mining pools are also extremely centralized which facilitates money laundering and foreign governments evading economic sanctions
Your youtube video also agrees with me that they are in fact centralized but - in his opinion - that centralization is not a "problem." But there is no debate that the mining pools are in fact extremely centralized.
>Fiat systems based on commodities require a great deal of trust
All of life requires a great deal of "trust." You obviously approve because you:
>paid for your device using the fiat system
>pay for your internet using the fiat system
>pay for most things in your life using the fiat system
You trust it enough to use it... to post about not trusting it. That's called "ironic." Kind of like your burning need to be "right."

[Anonymous No.56110405]

You seem to be projecting. All I want is good faith conversation and to learn by drawing from a wide range of opinions. Your snide remarks and armchair psychoanalysis betray your character. I'm not convinced by your arguments and your replies drip with smug self aggrandizement. I find no value in continuing this conversation. Feel free to glorify in what I suspect you will feel is a victory.

[Anonymous No.56110418]

>>56110336
very autistic and homeschooled vibe, sent pieces of this to my irl friends without context and we laughed at it and are mimicking your speech patterns ironically

thanks for the laughs dog, keep up the good fight

[Anonymous No.56110425]

>>56108213
Fiat currency is cash backed by nothing except a nation's promise and their army. They will use paper cash for trading value.

Gold backed currency is cash that's value is backed up by a reserve of gold/silver and other commodities. Meaning the cash used is representative of an I.O.U. of that gold. Paper cash is still used for trading value and not needing to lug around kilos of gold or silver.

OP's picture is a smooth brain take. It's like arguing that democracy is a better form of governance than capitalism.

[Anonymous No.56110427]

>>56108213
>done by central banks that are fully accountable
Uh oh!
>captcha: WW2WSD
>WW2

[Anonymous No.56110440]

>>56110418
He's got to be a redditor.

[Anonymous No.56110446]

>>56108213
>refute such ignorance
as if you're gonna fix his genes lmao
don't bother

[Anonymous No.56110472]

>>56110425
The comments in the OP pic were made by a former banking executive that fled to Costa Rica to avoid the vax and now runs a redpill telegram channel. I was trying to explain Bitcoin but she banned me for "promoting" crypto after replying to this post. I think she's starting a business to help others diversify their assets wanting to leave the West. She refuses to even look into it, she thinks it was created by Jack Dorsey and Elon Musk.

[Anonymous No.56110519]

>>56108213
Central banks could issue fiat and everything would be hunky dory in a world without Jews, or at least one where they had always been isolated on an island without a way to contact the outside world and spread their poisonous ideas.

[Anonymous No.56110520]

>>56110336
>>56110418
He's the architect from the matrix leave him alone

[Anonymous No.56110537]

>>56108879
if there were no asics the chain would run the same speed
it has no bearing on block timing
you really shouldn't be an advocate for something you don't understand the basics of

[Anonymous No.56110566]

>>56110537
That's why I was asking. I understand Bitcoin more conceptually than technically. I heard about it in 2013 and instantly recognized its value. I was working at Fidelity at the time and I told them that someday they would be offering it.

[Anonymous No.56110847]

>>56108251
There's too many ifs that do a lot of lifting. In reality none of those ifs are the case for too long. All fiats lose value and fail at some point.

[Anonymous No.56110860]

>>56108248
Send them this link:
https://youtu.be/7ix4aVKLL74

[Anonymous No.56110969]

>>56110472
She sounds based but in a retarded way. Her final point is essentially arguing that hard tangible assets are the best to have... yer advocates numbers printed on paper

[Anonymous No.56111026]

>>56108213
what part do you think is wrong? and why would you have to explain BTC to him? crypto is in fact vulnerable to hacking, social engineering, grift, etc, and many people have lost a lot of money to it in the past. Scam Bankman-Fraud for example just recently grifted billions from cryptards and wasn't punished at all for it.