[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/biz/ - Business & Finance

View post   
File: 437 KB, 1440x960, AvenueKleber3-1440x960.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
55966408 No.55966408 [Reply] [Original]

>Municipalities build out fiber-optic network for internet
>Speeds are faster and prices are lower than corporate internet, in part because they're not after a profit
Why don't we do this for housing?

>> No.55966417

>>>/pol/ socialist

>> No.55966433

Wait. Isn't this illegal?
I heard on the radio about a town that tried doing this and it got sued cuz "government isn't allowed to compete against businesses"

>> No.55966439

>>55966408
So the solution to incredibly fast internet, which at the moment costs between $30 and $100 a month, is to have the government be in charge of the internet.
Makes perfect sense.

>> No.55966603

>>55966433
>Americans can't have basic infrastructure, because private companies would not like it
Fucked beyond repair.

>> No.55966606

municipalities don't own the land

>> No.55966654

>>55966408
Yes, we should get commercial entities out of the residential real estate market. One way to do this is by instituting a very high tax on homes, but if you are an owner-occupier (i.e. you live in the home) then you don't pay the tax.

>> No.55966672

>be government
>One hundred gorillion dollars lost every year by the Pentagon, fails every audit
I trust them to do a good job

>> No.55966730

>>55966408
kill yourself commie

>> No.55966735

>>55966603
Why do you always make these corporations out as enemies? You can kill any corporation you don't like by simply not spending money on anything they provide. If your government taxes you and gives your money to a corporation that you don't like, that's a massive problem but the root cause is not the corporation, it's the corrupt govt that gave your money to it.

>> No.55966748

>>55966603
OOOHHHHH SAAAAAAAAYYYYY CAAAANNNN YOUU SEEEEEEEE

>> No.55966752

>>55966735
>You can kill any corporation you don't like by simply not spending money on anything they provide
Lololol do you also believe in the tooth fairy?

>> No.55966774

Except roads, those MUST be free.

>> No.55966822

>>55966433
Some companies have lobbied heavily to make it illegal. They've lost in a lot of cases because they're shitty companies and people like the new service.

>> No.55966838

>>55966606
They could.
I mean, they own the roads. Maybe we don't need so many roads. Build some trains and bike paths.

>> No.55966857

>be American
>need to make emergency call
>McPhone does not work, because you have been previously spotted at Burger King and were shut down until this is resolved

>> No.55966877

>>55966654
>why can't I afford rent anymore? We need more government intervention!

>> No.55966931

>>55966408
>Why don't we do this for housing?
They did pretty much everywhere in many different ways, it's more complex than it seems, pretty much everyone stopped doing it because it's not a good solution
It was definitely better than what we have nowadays

>> No.55967380

>>55966931
>because it's not a good solution
Totally is though. Singapore.

>> No.55968407

This is pretty common in yuropp but there is this indirection through nonprofit companies. Which is probably a good idea because who wants bureaucrats in charge of anything.

>> No.55968439

>>55966408
vienna does thies. it works. super cheap rent for a european capital city.

>> No.55968492

>>55968439
You're probably a sand nigger, but I'll take your bait.
I rent a 400 sqft flat Vienna from a public provider for 390 USD per month. It's hard getting these flats though, so the private market is still booming - where a similar flat might go for 800 USD.
The main problem is the allocation of these flats - who gets one? Most of the time it's misused to house sand niggers

>> No.55970087

>>55968492
There are no "market-rate" apartments in America going for $800/m. Anywhere (that you'd want to live). You MIGHT find that rate in a) the middle of nowhere, b) a rent-controlled unit that will never be rented to you, or c) a room in a boarding house. Everyone used COVID as an excuse to fuck prices.

>> No.55970100

>Public sector uses private sector innovations/tech and unlimited gobs of tax money to build out a network and only cares about quality because the private competitors created a concept of quality

yeah really interesting

>> No.55970122

>>55970087
I was talking about comparable flats in the same city, not in Niggerland California fag

>> No.55970146

Let's not forget the hundreds of billions that the US gov gave telecom companies in the 90s so they would build out the latest and greatest infrastructure for every american, which they failed to do and simply pocketed the money.

>> No.55971237

>>55970122
The comparison is the point, numbnuts. Vienna's "public option", as it were, drags down rents (this is a good thing). In America, without it, you're looking at minimum $1k for a studio anywhere you can actually get a job.

>> No.55971266

>>55970100
>private sector innovations
Lol
Lmao even
>private competitors created a concept of quality
Again, lol
The single example of that was Google Fiber, not a traditional telecom, and they backed off under pressure from those telecoms.

>> No.55971267

>>55970146

The funny thing about statists is that they will say stuff like "the American government took billions from American people and then gave it to their crony friends" and be mad at the crony friends and not the literal power holding entity that took it from Americans

>> No.55971282

>>55971266

I just want to let you know that your scope of thinking is incredibly limited and you should just stop talking with your little reddit lol's

>> No.55971284

>>55971267
>Gov't makes a deal with corps in good faith
>Corps renege but keep the money
>"It's the government's fault!"

>> No.55971288

>>55966408
Gov should give a hand to the working class every now and then. Only serving the corporate overlords is going to get costly in the long run

>> No.55971321

>>55971284

>good faith

You are so fucking stupid it isn't even funny. The 3 richest counties in the United States surround Washington DC. Do the math you utter retard.

>> No.55971343

>>55971282
I surely am going to value the appraisal of one who resorts, unheeded, to racial epithets. /s Are you over your hurt feelings? Are you ready to converse like an adult? Then point out where I was wrong.

>> No.55971352

>>55971321
I don't think you understand what "good faith" means.

>> No.55971382

>>55971352

No deal done in the capital is in "good faith", there is simply constant money changing dipshit. The people you think are on your side are bureaucratic grifters. They don't give a shit if a project was completed or not, they took your money, took their cut, gave the rest away and got a kickback for it. And you carry their water on the internet. You're an idiot.

>> No.55971456

Vienna and Singapore have plenty of public housing. It works because their governments actually maintain them. In America, we built public housing projects in the 60s-70s and then later cut funding and neglected them and let them turn into ghettos.

>> No.55971489

>>55971456

Kek, the reason they were abandoned wasn't lack of funding. They were filled with certain irredeemable somebodies that turned them into warzones.

>> No.55971497

>>55971382
Right so you don't. "Good faith" doesn't have anything to do with how a deal appears from the outside; it could be reeking of self-interest and cronyism and still be "good faith". All that matters is that both sides intend to carry out their parts. The government did their pork barrel giveaway to the corps as requested and they were supposed to be able to wash their hands of the fiber buildout. Corps took that money with zero intention of actually doing that buildout, leaving the gov't with pissed-off constituents. Bad faith. External but related to that is that politicians were now beholden to thos companies and their election support to overcome the deficit in grassroots support that came from the shitty state of infrastructure.

You need to stop throwing around insults you resemble, bucko.

>> No.55971513

>>55971489
just say the N word and get yourself banned from /biz/ already

>> No.55971536

>>55971489
>Kek, the reason they were abandoned wasn't lack of funding.
Actually, yes, RebaccaMoo.

>> No.55972281

>>55971456
They work because the people in them work.

>> No.55973774

>>55972281
It helps if you don't bulldoze all the businesses to build a highway and parking lots.

>> No.55974919

>>55966408
>Why don't we do this for housing?
A very big problem with that would be...companies going after profit.
Imagine if you will a company trying to win the contract for 20 commieblocks. They will bid with the lowest price they can come up with without doing it for free.
Then they'll win, then they'll cut corners, ALL the corners.
And if you let them they'll go over budget while still cutting corners.
A very good example is to look at bongistan's social housing projects from 50-60 years or so ago.
You had buildings supposed to last X amount of years literally falling apart, as in you're eating breakfast and you kitchen's wall falls onto the street.

>> No.55975201

>>55974919
>Contracting it out
Do it in-house

>> No.55975235

>>55966735
>You can kill any corporation you don't like by simply not spending money on anything they provide.

Naive. Most people don't have a choice. If you only have one provider, one product, etc. in your place, you can't do shit. Sometimes you have two products, or three, and they are all still shit.

>> No.55975297

>>55975201
You can't be in the house before you build it.

>> No.55975298

>>55966603
The fucking companies, especially communications (internet, mobile phone, etc.), have cartelized the market.
Americans in most of the country literally can only choose from one provider (maybe 2 sometimes).
And they all applaud it as the market self-regulating and capitalism going its due course.

>> No.55975324

>>55966735
Anon you have to be at least 18 years old to use this website

>> No.55975835

>>55975297
The White House, dude. Let the executive branch execute.

>> No.55975868

>>55966408
Why would property owners in a municipality want to devalue their own property?

>> No.55976024

>>55966877
If you have any actual argument as to why my suggested policy would be harmful or ineffective, please let me know.

>> No.55976376

>>55976024
Your proposal would make owning property to rent out much more expensive (thus requiring higher rents to be profitable), while making owning your house cheaper, since less competition from commercial landowners. However, even with much cheaper to purchase personal homes, a sizeable portion of the population would still be renters; young adults just starting out, people who have had to move for work, recently divorced individuals, and of course there is a good hunk of the population who will never get their act together enough to actually purchase a house, even if they were much cheaper than today. Those people would be facing higher rents, and might get quite upset over that fact.

>> No.55976491

>>55966408
you just CANT, ok? now get back to work

>> No.55978230

>>55966408
How will they make up the shortage from property taxes? How many will they build, who gets them, and for how long? How will the initial development be funded? Where will they be built???!!? If you can answer those questions without completely fucking over one segment of the local citizenry, I don’t see why we couldn’t give it a try

>> No.55978241

That would be the dumbest idea ever because the world is already overpopulated. We don't need to fix "housing" and I'm European.

>> No.55978255
File: 290 KB, 1400x983, 5f71cd50352e4b488a6f349b_panel-blockphoto-panelki-by-zupagrafika.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
55978255

>>55966408
>Why don't we do this for housing?

>> No.55978546

>>55976024
this>>55976376
also you are gay and a nigger

>> No.55979503

>>55978546
See
>>55978230
Answer the questions faggot

>> No.55979547

>>55966603
HOL UP
>builds $135 million ape hoop stadium with public dollars
HOL UP HOL UP
>gives $50 million job creator tax credit to small time mom and pop multinational conglomerate
SO YOU BE SAYIN
>small time mom and pop multinational conglomerate lays everyone off and ships the jobs to mexico
THAT WE
>auctions off municipal water treatment facility to private equity firm for pennies on the dollar, rates go up 130% overnight
WE WUZ
>installs red light cameras with tax dollars and sells ticketing administration to shell corporation headquartered at a PO box in the cayman islands
CAPITALISTS N SHEEEEITTTTTT

>> No.55979571

>>55966877
> Actually Its YOUR FAULT for not tipping 40℅ of your salary your ((landlord))
checkmate neets

>> No.55979746

>>55976376
The whole point is to make purchasing homes for the purpose of renting them out so prohibitively expensive that nobody does it. Commercial entities would have to sell all the homes they don't live in and they would have to do so at a significant loss. Home prices would plummet and home loans would be much more affordable. When people realize that 90% of the homes in their area are owned by non-owner-occupiers it will be very easy to convince them to vote landlords out of existence.

>> No.55979894

>>55966408
Why would i pay for other people to live in my home

>> No.55980092

>>55976376
>Municipal-owned housing not subject to the tax
>Also barred from seeking a profit
>Priced significantly lower than private rentals
>???
>Renters profit!
Of course, there will be places where the municipalities charge an arm and a leg and funnel that into exorbitant amenities and upgrades.

>> No.55980102

>>55978255
No, lowrises like in the OP picrel are the way.

>> No.55980110

>>55978230
Something tells me that those questions are rhetorical and not meant to actually be answered (even though they actually can be answered).

>> No.55980595

>>55966439
Some of us live in this odd purgatory where the best service available is expensive, unreliable, and not very fast, and there is no competition. Basically the company (Charter Spectrum) just rapes us all monthly and nobody bothers doing anything about it. Municipal broadband as a source of competition is a ray of hope.

>> No.55981751

>>55979746
So people who need housing fast (young adults who have just started working, and unfortunately do not have parents to live with, people who have had to move for a job, recently divorced, and so on) are just supposed to be homeless until they can save up a down payment and then find a house to purchase? And while house would certainly get much cheaper under that system, with steadily rising demand (from immigration), there is a limit to how cheap they can get; the price would probably stabilize at the construction costs of a new dwelling (which is going to be at least $100k for a modest single family home, and $50k to $75k per modest apartment), plus some cost for the land itself, and mild profit for developer. So figure $125k for a very basic house, $75k for 1 bedroom apartment, at the low end minimum. And sadly, a good hunk of the population would not be able to get their act together enough to qualify for a mortgage of even those low amounts.

>> No.55981800

>>55966603
We can't have anything nice and affordable here because the system is designed so that private enterprise can profit off of everything.

Capitalism is a religion here.

>> No.55981973

>>55981751
pretty funny when you look at how hard existing homeowners have conspired to enslave younger generations and snuff out "the future." that is, it's infeasible to have children in most parts of the country due to how absurdly expensive housing is -- unless you're a shamelessly terrible parent and want to subject your children to growing up in an apartment on welfare, like a common negroe.
>regulatory/zoning scams (need absurd amounts of licensing, approvals, and certified labor)
>law and order scams (can't just murder a boomer and take their home, or shabbos goy sheriff intervenes on behalf of private interests)
>institutional lending scams (banks using their financial and political might to keep collateral valuation pumped)
>tax authority scams (local govts pushing for pumped appraisals to capture more tax cattle revenues, boomers exempted on retiree subsides of course)

>> No.55982358
File: 25 KB, 450x450, 424575._UY450_SS450_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
55982358

>>55979547
Too high iq for this board.

>> No.55983393

>>55980110
Rhetorical? No, these actually have to get answered if a municipality is serious about going through with the plan. So gives us some answers.

>> No.55984367

>>55983393
I'll let you know when I run a municipality. Shit depends on locality and regional conditions, ya feel?

>> No.55984384
File: 170 KB, 961x1280, damning.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
55984384

>>55981973
>unless you're a shamelessly terrible parent and want to subject your children to growing up in an apartment on welfare, like a common negroe.
Tbf that's white people's fault too.

>> No.55986535

>>55984367
>housing should be free
>how do we implement and who will pay for it?
>???
Come on at least try. Places like LA have thrown millions at the problem and still can’t figure it out

>> No.55986729

>>55986535
I've yet to see any place in this country cut out the middle man for the middle class. The experiment of warehousing poor people in rentals failed, obviously. The closest we've gotten is Jimmy Carter literally nailing framing together for Habitats for Humanity. There's nothing to talk about until the essential and fundamental core idea is accepted, which is that the government is gonna build a shitton of housing for people and sell it at or below cost. There's no point in hashing out details at this point, because every naysayer will come at it from the poisoned perspective of preserving housing as a business or investment. Case-in-point, where you assume the inverse of the status quo is my argument:
>housing should be free
I never said "free."

>> No.55986964

>>55966752

Big corporations fail all the time.

>> No.55986973

>>55966408

We tried that, they became nigger-infested jungles.

>> No.55987039

>>55966408
>housing?
you mean deathcamps?

>> No.55987156

>>55987039
If you think about it, the Earth is kind of a giant coffin.

>> No.55987305

>>55966433
Depends on state/local laws.

>> No.55987345

>>55966408
>Why don't we do this for housing?
Just relax zoning laws and developers will build the housing.

They don't build cheap housing today because cities literally made it illegal to do so.