CHAINLINK GENERAL - Sideways action edition

[Anonymous No.55320172]

https://pastebin.com/6xcsc2jR
-----------------------------------------
Just incase you're really new, or think that Crypto is a tulip bubble:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIVAluSL9SU - The real value of bitcoin and crypto currency technology - The Blockchain explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3psxs3gyf8 - 19 Industries The Blockchain Will Disrupt
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CHAINLINK VIDEOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfH1B85YyFU - Sergey Q&A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nmLU284fIk -Interview when he was NXT Secure Asset Exchange CEO, talking about Smart Contracts (2014)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=nMlpTgxKtAY - A technical overview of ChainLink, the decentralized oracle platform.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytv8U0bejPA - Ethereum Enthusiasts NYC: SmartContracts.com and Oracles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfJiRsYpgyc -Smart Contracts in Business: Sergey Nazarov
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LINKS: (That won't steal your links)
https://github.com/smartcontractkit/chainlink -the github
https://chainlink-docs.smartcontract.com/#installation -The ChainLink API documentation.
https://link.smartcontract.com/whitepaper -Whitepaper (Duh)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Additional Information:
Ari Juels is a faculty member at the Jacobs Institute at Cornell Tech. He co-authored
this work in his separate capacity as an advisor to SmartContract ChainLink Ltd., in
which he has a financial interest. In 2004, MIT’s Technology Review Magazine named Dr. Juels one of the world’s top 100 technology innovators under the age of 35. Computerworld honored him in its “40 Under 40” list of young industry leaders in 2007. He has received other distinctions, but sadly no recent ones acknowledging his youth. - (http://www.arijuels.com/))))

[Anonymous No.55320179]

>>55320172
Chainlink was selected by the World Economic Forum's Tipping Point report as the "Shift in Action" for Smart Contracts, for their work on allowing smart contracts in the Bitcoin network to be automatically triggered by external data. -
(https://image.slidesharecdn.com/worldeconomicforumtippingpoint2015blockchain41-170330211144/95/world-economic-forum-tipping-points-report-1-638.jpg?cb=1490908469))))

Chainlink is partnered with Cornell's IC3, to help launch the first Intel SGX secured link between smart contracts and external data. This more secure way of running an oracle is the future and they're glad to be moving it forward.
- (https://create.smartcontract.com/#/contracts/cc3ea3c76b5a60f171e0eaf223146f34?tab=info))))


Chainlink has been chosen as a 2017 Blockchain Applications Cool Vendor by Gartner. This validates the value that CTOs and CIOs see in our more secure approach to connecting smart contracts with critical external resources. - (https://www.gartner.com/doc/3698947/cool-vendors-blockchain-applications-))))

Chainlink is presently working with SWIFT on their own SWIFT Smart Oracle. Allowing smart contracts on various networks to make payments, send governance instructions, and release collateral with over 11,000 banks. - (https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/embed_code/key/HJglipax9KmMPx))))

[Anonymous No.55320195]

>>55320179
SWIFT's premier blockchain project consists of two main pillars:
1) Distributed Ledger Tech or DLT (basically a blockchain)
2) Smart contracts

Smart contracts are meant to bridge the gap between external data and blockchains.

SWIFT is pretty far along with the first pillar (DLT), but has nothing at all yet for smart contracts; except for Smartcontract.com/Chainlink of course.

The "gpi" thing in OP's pic is a global payments initiative, and the third phase of gpi also involves DLT and related options.
This may very well include Smartcontract.com/Chainlink, of course; but the partnership is still in its infancy.

>SWIFT's premier blockchain project consists of two main pillars:
Source: https://www.swift.com/node/39911

Very first line of that SWIFT document:
>Distributed Ledger Technology (DLT) and Smart Contracts (SC) promise to transform automation in the financial industry, and are generating huge interest amongst financial institutions and technology providers.

Nicely outlines the two main parts as listed above: (1) DLT and (2) Smart Contracts.

[Anonymous No.55320206]

>>55320195
Massive consulting firms like Capgemini are devoting entire reports to smart contracts, specifically mentioning Smartcontract.com (= Chainlink) and Sergey Nazarov by name as the sole smart contract solution that can use external data thanks to oracles.
Source: https://www.febelfin.be/sites/default/files/InDepth/smart-contracts.pd_.pdf

Excerpts:
>Sometimes, external inputs such as prices, performance, or other real-world data may be required to process a transaction, and oracle services help smart contracts with inputs such as these.

>Smart contracts will also need to be able to work with trusted external data sources if they are to utilize external information. Smart contracts can achieve this with the help of oracles – programs providing smart contracts with the data they need from the external world or carrying the commands they need to send to other systems. Sergey Nazarov, Cofounder and CEO, smartcontract.com – a startup specializing in building oracles – outlines how connectivity with real-world data will be key.

If you don't know what Capgemini is: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capgemini

Back in 2015 the World Economic Forum also mentioned smartcontract(s).com by name:http://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_GAC15_Technological_Tipping_Points_report_2015.pdf#page=24

[Anonymous No.55320218]

>>55320206
>finished product
>massive business relationships
>enormous marketing opportunity coming up at SIBOS
>sky-high industry interest already, see above
>beastly use case (mainstream fucking smart contracts)

B-b-bb-b-b-but...

>chainlink has -2 devs, would need to hire 2 devs even to have zero staff
>whitepaper is written on a bar towel covered in vomit
>ICO caused 9/11
>roadmap literally goes backwards to 2008 then crashes
>Sergey isn't even real he's a balloon with a face drawn on

Except

Confido has already adopted Chainlink as their oracle
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SX0buv4bCc
https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/3-cryptocurrencies-to-keep-an-eye-on-that-are-not-bitcoin_us_59d22c36e4b034ae778d4c32
http://confido.io/
""We recently made the switch from Oraclize to Chainlink because of the decentralised aspect of Chainlink. The way we use Chainlink is pretty simple; our smart contracts track packages by using multi-carrier shipping API’s like Easypost and Postmen to view the delivery status of a package. We connect to, and pull data from, these API’s using Chainlink.
Before we made the switch from Oraclize to Chainlink we relied on one single API to serve us the correct data, which simply wasn’t secure enough when dealing with people’s money. Chainlink allowed us to stay decentralised and improve the security of our platform by allowing us to pull data from several API’s.
We are bullish on LINK and hope to accelerate the adoption by using it in our own project. There are so many use cases for LINK, our project is just one of them.""

[Anonymous No.55320229]

>>55320218
Look at ETH.
Smart contracts
They are revolutionary. Don't know why? Google it. You will find all sorts of uses for them, from Finance, Insurance companies, Airlines, you name it. There is a problem however, which is probably slowing down ETH's growth. Right now, smart contracts on the Ethereum network are limited; it's confined within the blockchain and with data on the blockchain.
Chainlink changes that.
All of those potential uses for Smart Contracts - that's all now a very legitimate possibility now. In the simplest terms, Chainlink allows for external data to inform smart contracts. When you consider the fact that it's decentralised, it gets a whole lot better.
People that keep saying things like "why would banks use chainlink when they can just make their own version" clearly don't understand the fundamentals of this project. Chainlink's goal is not to "be used" like (e.g.) Ripple hopes to achieve.
Chainlink is merely the bridge that enables data which is outside of the Ethereum 'universe', to communicate with it, and thus execute various actions. Thus, it's not unlikely that adopters will use their own private blockchain (biggest reason would be to avoid the market fluctuations in it's value). But - what will they use to get their data, onto the blockchain - whether it be their own token, eth, etc... Chainlink.

[Anonymous No.55320256]

>>55320229
1. Eth and smartcontracts. We all know smartcontracts are revolutoinary, but their use cases are limited. Smartcontracts are awesome, but they are confined within the blockchain and data on the blockchain. In otherwords, right now smartcontracts are "you send 1 eth and I'll send back 1000 McTokens", and this contract is verifiable/trustless/amazing but its stuck within the universe of Ethereum and the data Ethereum understands

2. It is possible to use external data to inform these contracts, but right now that process is centralized. This is a problem. Lets say the external data is a transaction of Dollars for ETH. So you send dollars to bank account X, and then I send Eth to your address. Right now you either do that through a third party (CoinBase), OTC (LocalBitcoins) or whatever else centrlized system you want to use.

Knocking out that centralization, where you have to trust someone, is THE key to SmartContracts having a real world use case. But how do you get that information -- the fact that the dollars have been sent -- onto the blockchain using data that the smartcontract understands?

[Anonymous No.55320259]

>>55320256
3. Oracles. Right now the answer is "hey we can hire Oracle X to do the translation to represent this bank dollar transaction on the blockchain." The "oracle problem" with this is that you are 100% TRUSTING that oracle to act prudently. That they don't tamper with the data. So we can kill coinbase but now we have to trust the oracle instead of coinbase .This is a HUGE problem for Banks who want to get into blockchain but have to trust a centralized oracle to translate data. This Oracle can be hacked, falsified, defrauded, really all the problems that come with centralization.
4. ChainLink - this service DECENTRALIZES that translation process of the Oracle. Now, the translation is trustless, and you have a trustless data feed that informs the trustless smart contract.

Multibillion dollar institutions can rely on distributed blockchain technology and know the data that informs their smart contracts is tamperproof.

So Thats what ChainLink does. ChainLink is the first decentralized Oracle that allows anyone to securely provide smart contracts with access to external data, off-chain payments, and really literally any other API you can dream up. Confirmation of delivery of an items (RFID, like Walton), confirmation of a wire being sent or received, interest rates from any central bank, sports scores, product/machine uptime, price of Eth/BTC in real time, weather patterns etc. Right now smart contracts are simple if/then functions where you go and manually do the if so the then comes back. Now with Oracles smartcontracts can automatically confirm or deny if then statements without any human interaction. Transactional automation for agreed upon terms on steroids.

[Anonymous No.55320267]

>>55320259
Anyone can now engrain off-chain data directly onto the blockchain in an actually decentralized way and use that data to directly inform trustless smart contracts, and since the Oracle is decentralized you know the data feed is secure and you’re not concerned with tampering on the Oracle’s part. This is like a skeleton key to actualize the data on the blockchain and apply that data to real world use cases.

Essentially, Smart Contracts are flawed because they, by their very nature, can't interact with data outside the blockchain. Oracles are the bridge which allow that to happen, but current oracles are centralized and could possibly manipulate the data they are passing for their own benefit, which causes big companies wanting to implement smart contracts to get cold feet.
Chainlink is a decentralized oracle network, which will allow the oracles on the network to act in a similar manner to how we see bitcoin miners interact with the bitcoin blockchain --- they don't care about what they're processing, they just process it. This allows the trustless and tamperless translation of the data from the source to the smart contract, which opens up a whole world of possibilities. I wrote a couple examples to help open your mind to it:
Securities smart contracts such as bonds . . . You have a Bond which you have a smart contract for which is fed market data through an oracle, calculates the effective interest rate and payment based on the terms of your bond, and processes your dividends through a payment network oracle (SWIFT Payment network)
Insurance smart contracts, which uses data from IoT devices in your home to support claims for insurable events, such as your fire alarm or home security system automatically beginning a claim with the company providing your personal property insurance when one of those events occur.

[Anonymous No.55320282]

>>55320267
Trade finance smart contracts. For example, you're a manufacturing company, your automated factory produces plumbuses which are then delivered to your clients via a self driving semi truck company. You have a smart contract in place with the trucking company that smart contract needs to track GPS data on your shipments and compensate you for any delays, it will need to integrate data from supply chain ERP systems, and will need to interact with other smart contracts involved with the international customs shipping to ensure fulfillment of the original smart contract obligations.
Once you start thinking about this stuff, it's simply incredible what we're going to be able to do with it. It's like learning about the "next big thing" 10 years in advance.

Listen very carefully to what I'm about to say.

Ambrosos wants to represent external data (food) on the blockchain.

Walton wants to represent external data (RFID tags) on the blockchain.

Ripple wants to represent external data (financial transactions) on the blockchain.

These use cases are ENTIRELY contained within ChainLink.

ChainLink is the skeleton key that makes all these proects obsolete. It gives every company the building blocks to use oracles that represent ANY data, not just single use cases like food/RFID/financial transactions, however they want.

[Anonymous No.55320293]

>>55320282
Ethereum is a blockchain with advanced scripting language whichallows running of decentralized applications (dapps) and Smart contracts. What are smart contracts? It is a digital contract planted in the Ethereum blockchain. It is a tamper-proof commitment of all participants of the contract. It is used to exchange money, property, shares etc, without a middleman. Ethereum's creator's description of smart contract is to compare the technology to a vending machine. Ordinarily, you would go to a lawyer or a notary, pay them, and wait while you get the document. With smart contracts, you simply drop a bitcoin into the vending machine (i.e. ledger), and your escrow, driver’s license, or whatever drops into your account. More so, smart contracts not only define the rules and penalties around an agreement in the same way that a traditional contract does, but also automatically enforce those obligations.

Now, how do we get tamper proof, secure data feeds into Ethereums blockchain in order to expand the variety of use cases. How do we get information, external data, about markets, shares, web API feeds, bank payments, back-end systems, retail payments, real life event data or data about other blockchains into the Ethereum blockchain.

The main use of smart contracts in Ethereum today is management of ERC20 tokens, which are a common functionality in most smart contract networks.The current focus on tokens to the exclusion of many other possible applications is due to a lack of adequate oracle services.

[Anonymous No.55320321]

it stinks

[Anonymous No.55320345]

chainlink is a tulip bubble
you guys must be masochists with the weekly pain you feel

[Anonymous No.55320356]

chainlink general? yeah no,I'll make 12 more LINK threads in the catalog just because of this

[Anonymous No.55320364]

Bump anon! Good thread and I wouldn’t mind having a general going. Currently have 5.1k link and debating whether I should buy more or get into avax or bitcoin. But link at these prices is nice.

[Anonymous No.55320376]

Bumping this Chainlink megathread.
WAGMI soon frens

[Anonymous No.55320473]

>>55320356
>doesn't remember the generals
newfag detected

[Anonymous No.55320490]

excellent thread, and much better than the countless LINK fud threads spammed on this board every day
I support this

[Anonymous No.55320553]

[Anonymous No.55320737]

Discord fudders made a containment thread where they pretend to be civilized people like the rest of us, very cute. I support you guys. Im gonna go make a few link threads but ill take care not to bump you guys off page 10.

[Anonymous No.55320749]

>>55320356
>>55320737
fucking newfags kys

[Anonymous No.55320761]

>>55320737
Yep. I'm thinking based.

[Anonymous No.55320806]

>Yep. I'm thinking based.
t.clu subhuman

[Anonymous No.55320888]

Fudder here, I ask that my fellow fudchads do not bother linkies here. Let them stay in peace here. Let them have a safe space. only if they spam a bunch of threads then feel free to fud those.
Also kudos to OP for his effort

[Anonymous No.55320908]

>>55320888
checked but we all know these high estrogen, linknigger subhumans can't help but shit up the entire board

[Anonymous No.55320941]

>>55320172
Thank you for the effort!

Know that it has meaning.
You give me and many others strength and hope.

The children of light will be rewarded.

[not sage No.55320954]

finally we got our own general. Link marines let us contained ourselves here from now on

[Anonymous No.55321162]

I have never been so demoralized in my entire fucking life. held this shit for 6 years, lost most of my stack to bancor and buying pepe and now I'm watching it dump into oblivion every fucking week. almost 17 straight weeks of LINK dumping against eth, holy fucking shit
the price currently is so low it hurts to look at. barely up from 20 fucking 17

fuck me it's getting hard to continue believing this shit has a future, and to top it off they announced a 7% supply dump yesterday. like lmao it's going to go below $1 if sergey dumps 70 fucking million link

what the fuck do we do

[Anonymous No.55321186]

Technology not needed.

[Anonymous No.55321197]

>>55321162
>barely up from 20 fucking 17
lmao what, it's x49 right this moment since 2017

sounds like you're a 2019 larper

[Anonymous No.55321222]

>>55321197
LINK was like $1.40 at the peak of the 2017 bubble iirc, it's more like 3x. >>55321186

[Anonymous No.55321226]

>>55321197
>hurr durr I bought 100% of my stack at literal ICO price!
shut the fuck up faggot

[Anonymous No.55321269]

>>55321222
checked
>>55321226
more 2019 faggotry showing as if LINK wasn't around 30 cents for basically the entirety of 2018 right as well. yes anons bought at ICO and yes anons bought all throughout 2018 as well, cope and sneed

[Anonymous No.55321283]

>>55321226
I actually bought in 2018 at 30c and sold at $30. The project is a failure, the nodes are unprofitable, the technology is not needed, and we have AI to invest in now instead of crypto, which as a sector is a failure just like LINK individually.

[Anonymous No.55321384]

>>55321197
WOW x49 in 6 years! Just as many gains as any other shitcoin has from a single bull market. BULLISH!!!

[Anonymous No.55321440]

2030 will be our year

[Anonymous No.55321442]

Piss linkers are fucking pathetic. Based Sergey dumping on deluded bag holders heads.

[Anonymous No.55321479]

baggies needed. token not needed. exit liquidity needed.

[Anonymous No.55321524]

subhuman nastyslob is eating 20k calories tonight thanks to linkniggers that PAYED UP

[SAGE No.55321645]

>>55320737
Yep. Trying to "force linkies into a general" seems to be a recurring fudcuck objective.
There is no need for a link general on a link board. I'll make a few separate link threads today just to spite these dumb animals.
ALL FIELDS

[Anonymous No.55321945]

>>55320954
>finally
LINK had generals in the early days.

[Anonymous No.55321953]

mods you know the drill. one thread per coin.

[Anonymous No.55323117]

>>55321283
This this this it’s over

[Anonymous No.55323122]

>>55321953
this
mods need to ban all link shill threads

[Anonymous No.55323126]

Honestly LINK holders should be corralled into their containment thread and left alone just like PMG and GME cucks are.

[Anonymous No.55323332]

>>55320806
please delete this post i am armenian

[Anonymous No.55323473]

>>55323126
Paid shills and bagholders won't. They will shill this globohomo shitcoin everywhere.

[Anonymous No.55323550]

>>55320172
Great thread, bookmarked.

[Anonymous No.55323586]

General Not Needed

[Anonymous No.55323817]

>>55321197
I bought a lot of my stack in 2017 but I hate this argument. People who bought in 2019 should not be down on their investment right now. If you’re saying 2017/2018 was the only time to buy LINK then that means we have suffered 5 fucking years of opportunity cost. And by the way, you need new buyers for the price to go up. You can sit here for the next decade waiting for muh institutional investors but the only guarantees in crypto right now are retail. The fact that total dog shit liken ADA, SOL, TON, SHIB etc all have vastly higher mcaps than LINK is truly embarrassing.

[Anonymous No.55323970]

>>55323817
I bought in late 2018 at 5k sats, the fact that after 4 years I'm sitting at a measly 4x against BTC is suicide inducing

[Anonymous No.55324676]

>>55323473
this image is what really makes me consider ending it all right fucking now

[Anonymous No.55324760]

>>55320206
Holy shit you can’t make this shit up. Capgeminis logo is literally the cuck spade, just painted blue. Linksisters can’t stop getting cucked ahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.55326950]

shitstink

[Sage No.55327106]

>>55326950
>failed to keep general alive on a link board
>bumps it out of desperation
There were two attempts this week to try to contain linkies but both failed. This embarrassing even for fudders. kill yourselves

[Anonymous No.55327379]

Have a bump linkies

[Sage No.55327507]

>>55327379
Thanks for proving my point and that this is a link board

[Anonymous No.55327779]

>>55327106
>doesn't know there used to be link generals every day on /biz/
newfag

[Anonymous No.55327867]

>>55321645
This is why people hate you all.

[Anonymous No.55327916]

>>55321645
another newfag

[Anonymous No.55327923]

Based and linkpilled. Just bought more (again).

[Anonymous No.55327988]

Guys is $5 a good entry or should I wait for a lower price?

[Anonymous No.55328243]

>>55327507
>shits up the board with his spam
>proceeds to cry about how poor innocent linkies are unfairly persecuted.
Hmm where have i seen this behaviour before...
>The jew cries out in pain as he strikes you

[Anonymous No.55329590]

>>55328243
https://files.catbox.moe/1jebut.webm

[Anonymous No.55329594]

>>55327988
it's probably a good entry
but i'm waiting for like $4.75
i guess im just pessimistic after all these years
i'll probably end up missing the bottom really

[Anonymous No.55329608]

>>55327988
checked, yes it's good. Won't matter too much in the long run.

[Anonymous No.55329609]

>>55321222
And BTC was 20k at the 2017 peak, which is a 1.3x.

[Anonymous No.55329623]

>AMC is outperforming link

[Anonymous No.55329635]

are non-fud LINK threads legal?

[Anonymous No.55329640]

>>55329635
every link thread is a fud thread by default

[Anonymous No.55329794]

look at all the newfags thinking link generals are a new thing. See I told you all the old marines sold and are gone. No link baggie here bought below $5.80

[Anonymous No.55330063]

Bump for the hard work OP

[Anonymous No.55331090]

[Anonymous No.55331187]

>>55327988
I dont think there is any point in buying before we start bouncing out of the shit range (so when prics gets past 8.5).
Youre better off putting your money in something that will pump as no one wants to buy a token with no utility and with a team announcing a 25% increas in supply over the next two years

[Anonymous No.55331254]

guys I just figured out that Chris Barrett is a big anon supporter and likes to write elaborate fan fictions to market products on the internet. It seems that every link meme and possibly post about link including this one (!!!) was hand crafted with love by none other than Chris Barrett X and he still had time for a run afterwards. A round of applause for based Chris Barrett based king seen here flashing the occult 666 demon sign

[Anonymous No.55331280]

I spent years being indoctrinated into the cult of saturn by high occult priest 42 (really just another Chris Barrett marketing character) but this guy with no shirt poss. no pants breaks it down. he also has 777 on his tiktok name which is based amd magic pilled
https://twitter.com/WillingWitness/status/1669760793024561153

[Anonymous No.55331306]

here is the saturn gnosis stuff that used to be shared before /biz/ became normie in the before times long ago
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3PzrlVuYimayizz3ynBto5cjSavZhvFa
based anons would get fully erect for this stuff and high priest 42 would profit at the expense of anons

[Anonymous No.55331342]

>>55331280
>>55331306
https://emalm.com/?v=1cmhT

[Anonymous No.55331367]

>>55331342
I think chris barrett was high on mushrooms when he made this one. There should be laws against profiting from based INTP schizos :'(

[Anonymous No.55331400]

anybody get sent their glyph number yet? Big time alchemy cymbals foretold in my link group. Trust the process? No trust the prophet.

[Anonymous No.55331461]

>>55331367
genuine question, who the fuck is chris barrett? I'm losing track of all the link personas

[Anonymous No.55331481]

With Pluto aligning with Saturn on the chariot axis, I am confident that we are about to enter a period of constant price rise for LINK.

I added to my bags and will continue to buy more. Stay strong, the hard part is almost over.

[Anonymous No.55331483]

>>55331461
bro way too out youreself as a newfaggot

[Anonymous No.55331529]

https://twitter.com/Morbidful/status/1670094066246098950
>James Huberty, entered the restaurant and fatally shot 21 people and wounded 19 others before being killed by a police sniper approximately 77 minutes after he had first opened fire.
>77
>"Well, society had their chance."
>"going hunting... hunting for humans."
>Holding a gun across his shoulder and carrying a box ofammunitionand a bundle wrapped in a checkered blanket, Huberty glanced toward his elder daughter, Zelia, as he walked toward the front door of the family home and said, "Goodbye. I won't be back."

[Anonymous No.55331544]

>they didn't check my bundle... he whispered right before he started blasting
holy based

[Anonymous No.55331974]

>>55331483
>newfag
this fag wasn't even around 2 years ago, if anything he's the newfag

[Anonymous No.55331977]

LINK token is not needed and is useless.

[Anonymous No.55333156]

I'm just so fucking tired bros.
It might really go to $200 if the stars align correctly next bullrun, but I really just can't take this anymore.
I'll probably sell my entire stack at 40. I just want out. My fragile mind won't survive any longer.

[Anonymous No.55333183]

Holy shit kek baggies, OP reads like a schizo post.

Non of that shit matters, QE is over; end of the story. Altcoin total death.

[Anonymous No.55333204]

>>55321162
its 14% inflation not 7%. Rory must have been the one doing the math for SDL as well