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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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552431 No.552431 [Reply] [Original]

So what's going to be the "new" "oil"?

I mean investing in oil stocks would be a shit idea, especially with how we're going toward completely energy using cars, right?

>> No.552435

The new oil is natural gas.

>> No.552446

>>552435
do you see yourself investing in natural gas?

>> No.552463

>>552446
Yes.

>> No.552465

>>552435

gasland mate.

>> No.552467

Why did you post the image

>> No.552475

>>552431
Hey guys, this is a general question

I have saved 10k and imc lueless.. should I look into stocks.. or try to get into something more realestate related?

>> No.552487

>>552467
why the hell not?

>> No.552512

>>552475
i'll bump for you but not sure of what to tell you.

>> No.552539

Intellectual property. Once Asia, specifically China, is brought on board with protecting intellectual property tomorrow's business empires will be built upon branding, copyrights, and trade marks.

>> No.552541

>>552512
/biz/ isn't a fast board, but I appreciate it m8

>> No.552554

Bandwidth

>> No.552561

>>552431
>I mean investing in oil stocks would be a shit idea, especially with how we're going toward completely energy using cars, right?

TOP LAL

>> No.552564

>>552475
>should I look into stocks

Your personal finances should be in order before investing. That said, sure. Get into indexing to get your feet wet and learn the ropes a bit.

>> No.552567

>>552564
Thanks for the response.. but yes at the moment my finances are in check..
I have 10k pure savings.. no debt.. about to get a decent raise..

trying to get the general consensus to what the best option is at this moment in time..
I know houses are cheap as all hell right now.. maybe I could put a downpayment on a house with a partner.. but if something is more obviously lucrative..
I want to learn!!

>> No.552580

>>552561
what's so lally about that

in 20 years gas cars will be extinct

>> No.552582

>>552580
I'd imagine we'd still call cars running on natural gas "gas cars".

>> No.552583
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552583

>>552580
>being this stupid
>2014

>> No.552584

>>552580
nullifying oil is going to be Very difficult on this planet while rich people are calling the shots

>> No.552587

>>552584
Yeah, it's the rich people that make petroleum is so useful.

>> No.552588

>>552583
>>552584
you realize that most cars on the streets will be energy-driven?

>> No.552592

>>552588
dude, were not saying the technology isn't there.
hell we could have flying cars by now if we wanted..
electric cars were feasible 15 years ago.
im just saying that rich people don't want that shit to happen Anytime soon

>> No.552602

>>552592
>implying it will matter when Tesla cars skyrocket off and car companies fight to compete with them

>> No.552603
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552603

>>552602
>more retarded shit that people actually believe.jpg

>> No.552607

>>552603
Care to explain why

>> No.552612

>>552602
my brother, theres more interests in this than car companies.. were talking about the billionaire oil shieks in UAE.. all the oil tycoons in texas
honestly, its probably going to be a bloodbath, assassinations threats, lobbying like hell..

its like the health industry.. it cant change as long as pharmaceuticals run the place.

>> No.552613

>>552431
We're at least 5 years before oil really starts getting replaced if ever.

>> No.552615
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552615

>>552607
Tesla only moves 30,000 cars a year. ENTIRELY. that's all of their product lines combined. Ford F-150 the highest selling American made auto moves 850,000. (one vehicle line) So, that means in order to catch up to where ford is Tesla needs to be able to move a minimum of 850,000 units. They have no patents on any of the technology that their developing so ultimately a higher-stakes competitor could just as easily move in and outpace their sales. Honda has an FCEV rolling out in 2015, as does Toyota. Why would you waste time with tesla, not being able to recharge your shit batteries, when you can get the same deal with a better and more widely available vehicle line? You have lower maintenance, no waiting for your batteries, and a large manufacturer offering a bigger inventory base. My suspicion is you're just shitposting. In case you were wondering, that's why.

>> No.552630

>>552588
>energy-driven
>oil
>not a form of energy

>> No.552634

>>552615
i've heard energy stops will be as common as gas stations in within time

>> No.552641

>>552634
Stop being a fucking retard you're trying to say electricity not energy

>> No.552643
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552643

>>552634
>yet again more rumor based retarded shit people actually believe.jpg

>> No.552656

>>552615
actual sales figures aside, TESLA is more about potential - someone has to recgnise that oil ( and gas.. ) are finite resources, and the Detroit boys appear to be doing nothing other than hiding under there communal safety blanket, and hoping to Christ, no-one announces the wells are empty on their watch.

Not arguing Tesla is particulary the solution either, indeed, the power requirements for their top end models are fucking ridiculous - and if more than 25% went electric tomorrow, the grid would simply collapse.

They are, however, at least looking forwards - and, in a world where no-one else wants to, thats worth rewarding, y'ask me. Dismiss them at your peril, but I would not bet upon GM becoming world-leaders again anytime soon either.

>> No.552674
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552674

>>552656
If you're interested in the auto market I would start by looking at Toyota's hydrogen fuel cell vehicle that rolls out in 2015. It looks like it could be a winner in commercially available green vehicle technology.

>> No.552679

>>552656
>They are, however, at least looking forwards - and, in a world where no-one else wants to, thats worth rewarding, y'ask me.

Great sentiment but it's all about that return on investment.

>> No.552685

>>552615

why the fuck do you think that Tesla has to be as huge as Ford to be profitable

all Tesla needs to do is make a car that works and is priced right. If they make it, people will buy it because there is demand which is not being satisfied by regular car companies

> Why would you waste time with tesla, not being able to recharge your shit batteries, when you can get the same deal with a better and more widely available vehicle line? You have lower maintenance, no waiting for your batteries, and a large manufacturer offering a bigger inventory base.

lol, the big three are in bed with oil companies and aren't going to hurt that relationship. I'm dead serious.

>> No.552689

>>552656
Another thing, what is electicity generated from these days?

natty gas, coal, hydro

Surely we don't have nearly enough hydro resources to power the whole grid. So all the electric dreamers are still gonna be using fossil fuels.

>> No.552691

>>552679

lol fuck no

Toyota is only bringing that car to the US because they got California to build refuelling stations for them. Do you really think anyone is going to buy a car that expensive when they could either 1) get a gas car or 2) get a Tesla they can refuel in their own home

>> No.552693

>>552689

>implying the future isn't in nuclear power

>> No.552716

OP sorry for my idiocy. Looked into it. Let me "change" my question so to speak.

What SOURCE of energy is best for investing in the long run? Everyone is saying natural gas (right?), should I bother with renewable energy sources or would the profit be non-existent?

I mean if I put 150k over time into natural gas (50k) and then nuclear power (50k) then coal (25k) and then the remaining into hydroelectric, geothermal, biomass, solar and wind power (25k) I should be pretty well off... right?

>> No.552718

>>552716
i meant op here*

>> No.552719

Long run? Nuclear, solar, or geothermal. I'd go for geothermal myself.

>> No.552721

>>552719
thanks for your response..

by the way thanks everyone. i appreciate everyone of you in here.

>> No.552729

natural gas was going to be the "new oil" 5 years ago. it's too late to get any huge profits from investing in nat gas

the next big energy industry is going to be solar

>> No.552748

>>552729
what about coal and nuclear?

>> No.552758

>>552716
that's putting all your eggs in one market/basket mate


dangerous.

>> No.552766

>>552431
Existing oil companies are your best bet. They're the biggest investors in renewables anyway, and the only ones who can afford to buy new technologies if it's worth something.

Notice very few of them are "oil" or even "petroleum" companies anymore - more and more will change to be "energy" companies and so on

>> No.552769

>>552580
Electricity is still going to come from natural gas mostly (this in countries without an interest in nuclear)

>> No.552823

>>552766
hm, damn that's true.

thank you

>> No.552832

There is no new oil, not anytime soon
The new would be electricity(tesla), which is far from becoming the standard and oil still creates
Oil is highly undervalued right now and is only becoming a better investment

>> No.552839

>>552587
Electric cars were made in, I think, the 80's and were massively recalled (though they were known to be loved by their owners who didn't want to give them up)

And still, before Tesla (made by new money) people thought an all-electric car wasn't yet possible

>> No.552874

Lower oil prices also hurts nat gas. If oil is real cheap then why bother having nat gas for vehicles? Ppl will continue to buy vehicles that consume oil if it stays cheap. Plus a lot of newer oil consuming cars are getting better gas mileage .

>> No.552877

during the baron conference concho ceo said they are still netting 50 bucks profit a barrel from 40 existing wells, american supply alone is 20 mil barrels a day. oil business still has quite a bit of fat to cut before its no longer profitable. I was looking at the dips in RIG personally but i haven't decided yet. as the cars swap more users to electric you may want to short some oil companies that you think will be going down with the industry. but this industry isn't dying tomorrow, i give it at least 20 years. and in those years we will most likely see massive consolidation however large vehicles aren't swapping to electric anytime soon.

>> No.552878

>>552431

Uranium.

>> No.552879

These won't hurt oil companies like Exxon , shell or whatever big major you see at your local gas station . It will hurt the drillers like rig and diamond offshore . They usually carry ton of debt and rely on higher oil prices to make money.

>> No.552884

But for now nat gas is more of weather based play. Since we don't really export it. I'm usually long nat gas during the winter since most of us will use it to heat our homes. So im looking to go long nat gas futures next week.

>> No.552886

>>552431
your mom

>> No.552895

>>552634

I could point you to about half a dozen books on the "future economy" based off of the hydrogen fuel cell.
Written in the 1980s.

Goddamn don't be so dumb.

>> No.552897

>>552878
GOOD LUCK

>> No.552924

>>552431
It will be decades before oil stops being the dominant fuel source even with resource depletion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_liquefaction

The drop in oil prices is due to a slow down in the economy and OPEC showing a reluctance to cut oil prices. I don't see oil as a good long term investment but neither would I classify it as "shit", at the moment though the drop in prices has resulted in speculation and potentially undervalued stocks may bounce, there is the potential for short term swing trades.

Anyway. I believe if you want to understand the future of electric cars and various fuel and energy sources you must move on from Elon Musk and "futurologist" types, you need to look at the entire production chain from the source of energy to how it is transfered and stored and the efficiency of the machines that use it. Lithium ion batteries and hydrogen fuel cells are neat but there are limits to the efficiency of an electric motor, if they are to become more economical than petrol/diesel for the majority of applications you have to look further afield. Maybe I'm just stating the obvious, don't know.

>> No.552925

> investing in oil stocks would be a shit idea

Just bought CVE.TO on friday and they just got approved a pipeline deal worth 90000 barrels a day

I can't wait to see what this shit jumps up by...

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

http://online.wsj.com/articles/alberta-approves-cenovus-plan-for-oil-sands-project-1416011638

>> No.554145

The next oil will be solar, and the new fusion reactors built by Lockheed Martin. This energy boom will drive energy prices down. With the abundance of energy, consumers will have more spending money. Electricity-focused companies will emerge.


Companies to invest in
* Solar (rental companies will be sprouting up all overe)
* 3d cement printers, building houses + walls for cheap.
* Rare earth metals (needed for most computers + mobile devices)
* Desalinization plants
* Pollution control. Environment-altering machinery will be needed in the future for off-planet expeditions and establishments. The economy's leader will become the producer of the known universe's supply. The same is true for all products.


Africa is being eyed up by the Chinese for its abundance in rare earth metals. Northern Africa is prime for a solar array, nations just have to ensure that extremist Islamic groups don't become an issue. James Cameron wants to harvest asteroids.

The future is coming and it will be a post-scarcity society. What businesses will come and go during the transition?

>> No.554165

>>552475

Max your Roth IRA first.

>> No.554208

>>552435

It's the new oil for maybe a decade, probably less, until everyone realized how fucking harmful fracking is to the environment and the water table, as well as the cardboard economies it sets up in small towns.

Natural gas is not a long term solution to energy, it is just like oil in that it is a valuable commodity harvested across the planet in nomadic phases until the current location is dried up before the next area is harvested.


If you are interested in LONG TERM investment in energy assets, I would honestly hold off until the next presidential election to see what gets subsidized.

>> No.554246

>>552925

>tfw no fucking money for invest

haha, fuck you, enjoy the sheckels bro

>> No.555176

>>552431

Solar: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/110414/solar-starting-win-price-war.asp

>> No.555207

>>554208
> until everyone realized how fucking harmful fracking is to the environment and the water table

Fracking doesnt harm the water table. Environmentalists push the water focus because everybody is all concerned about clean drinking water. They have desperately been trying to find prove fracking contaminates groundwater but have yet to find conclusive evidence. Funny given the 100s of thousands of wells that have been drilled in the past decade, if it really did contaminate ground water you would think there would be an epidemic but there isnt. The air pollution caused by upstream oil production is the real problem and regulatory agencies are have been catching up on that front.


People who talk about natural gas vs oil dont understand you often cant extract one without getting the other. Yes there are wells that produce almost exclusively gas but most wells produce a mix of gas and oil. We are actually burning off tons of natural gas because it's often not even economical to send it to market.

>> No.555290

>>552925
it wont.

>> No.555314

solar is the energy of tomorrow
fusion is the energy of the future

and don't you forget that.

>> No.555344

>>552431

Eventually oil prices are going to go back up because the strength of the dollar is a lie... Honestly I would take advantage of these low prices.

Dont go all in ... slowly buy in. But the dollar is fucked long term, and once the markets figure that out oil will pop like crazy.

>> No.555350

whoa my thread is still up

thanks everyone whose kept it up so far and answered, I have to admit I am kind of confused everyone is saying different things

>> No.555465
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555465

>>554145
>The next oil will be solar

>>555314
>solar is the energy of tomorrow
Solar is a waste of money and time and will never be a viable or profitable alternative to coal or nuclear. It's a joke, and your talking out of your ass

>> No.555520

>>555465

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/11/science/earth/denmark-aims-for-100-percent-renewable-energy.html?_r=0

"Lest anyone consider such a sweeping transition to be impossible in principle, the Danes beg to differ.... They are above 40 percent renewable power on their electric grid, aiming toward 50 percent by 2020."

Renewable energy is a possibility, however the citizens and politicians matter as well

>> No.555895

>>555465
>Solar is a waste of money and time and will never be a viable or profitable alternative to coal or nuclear. It's a joke, and your talking out of your ass
Read my entire post you fucking halfwit

what I wrote is that in the next 10-20 years we'll see the price of solar dropping to levels where it'll be competitive with oil, but after that fusion (I assume you know that's also nuclear?) will become a viable option and once we are able to properly use fusion the Earth won't need another energy source because by the time fusion power runs out the sun will have died and killed us anyways.

>> No.555904

>>552431
>especially with how we're going toward completely energy using cars
>energy using cars
>implying oil isn't converted into energy
Jesus christ OP.

>> No.555910

>>555904
if you think people couldn't figure that error out on their own and if you think you actually had to point it out then you truly are the retarded one.

>> No.555937

>>552431
The next oil is algae oil. Buy SZYM, op.

>> No.556760

>>552431
The new oil will be recycling. Because you can make oil from recycling plastic. In short term, gas. The Russian attack on the Ukraine may lead to a European shortage in gas, as Putin may stop export towards western countries. They are the biggest exporters in the continent.

>> No.556837

>>552832
>Oil is highly undervalued right now and is only becoming a better investment

this is how I feel. I've been investing in crude for the last few weeks as a short term play, I'd bet it will be back up next spring/summer IF opec can somehow manage to come to an agreement to cut production. I'm sure there is still more downside, but I don't think I'm catching a falling knife.

>> No.556846

>>552431

Energy will be technology driven instead of commodity driven in the future.

Rather than consuming commodities, we will be getting energy from solar panels. Yields from solar have been growing at 20% + per year per dollar.

It will be impossible to make money on this transition because the Chinese will steal any technological innovation the west creates, and they will continue to undercut manufacturing of this equipment leaving no jobs or investment opportunities for us.

Finally, our local economies will be ravaged as people leave the power grid for cheaper solar solutions bought from China. As people leave the grids the costs of the power plants will grow causing a continuous feed back loop of people more rapidly leaving the grid and conventional power costs more rapidly rising.

Buy farm land, and nothing else.

>> No.557001

>>552615

Gigafactory

Tesla is just getting started

>> No.557039

>>552431
How the fuck would we go to a fleet of all electric cars? We dont have enough lithium to make the batteries.

Renewable grid? Not unless we discover a vanadium deposit the size of a small country.

We'd need free energy and a repkicator from star trek to keep this shitstorm going another few decades.

>> No.557079

>>557039
We've got all that. That's why you went into afghahanistan. Africa's tempting all the big miners too

>> No.557090
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557090

>>552431

probably nuclear power

even in the most cynical version of the future (re: corporate police state) nuclear energy will still be widely invested in and used because even now it's so cheap. Once smaller/safer reactors are made, then it's only a matter of time before all cars come with them standard and the "oil age" is replaced by the "nuclear age". Assuming space/sea colonies ever happen, nuclear power will be the go-to power source. In more optimistic versions of the future, everyone will have nuclear reactors in their homes and things like laser guns will become more practical (assuming a man-portable nuclear reactor is ever made)

practically speaking, investing in research companies like Lockheed and smaller nuclear supply companies is your best bet here. Same with uranium mining companies, iirc there's one right now patenting a process to extract uranium from seawater or something

also oil itself will likely never go away because of plastic, but as a fuel source it'll probably be replaced by the end of the century

>> No.557091

>>552539

>implying IP law will ever extend to china or india

those cultures have no sense of "intellectual property", and therefore will always be unable to implement any IP law

also IPs are on their way out thanks to the Internet, though hollywood tries very hard to ignore reality. Right now IPs are a good thing to invest in but it's slowly going the way of the dinosaur, at least when it comes to copyrights and branding.

>> No.558620

>>555207
regardless of the form of energy extraction one constant is that publicly traded energy corporations have almost zero fear of negative externalities given that the punishments they receive for them are effectively Nothing