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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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5411425 No.5411425 [Reply] [Original]

So I just finished calculating my taxes and everything came out to be around $40,000. But then I read that we can't claim the like-kind exemption. So I redid everything and now I owe $80,0000.

How come nobody talks about this? How is paying taxes every time you spend crypto supposed to be sustainable for the crypto market?

>> No.5411466

>>5411425
Dude Cryptos are just numbers, pixels on your screen, it's not even real. It's not taxable anymore than air is.

>> No.5411469

We have been talking about it
You are just not paying attention

>> No.5411485

>>5411469
yeah.. right. clearly this guy got the memo >>5411466

>> No.5411502

>>5411466
Have fun explaining that to the taxman. I'm sure he'll be very understanding.

>> No.5411510

>>5411469
what's the conclusion been?

>> No.5411531

>>5411502
>implying they can prove I avoided taxes when I trade on foreign exchanges where I'm unverified.

>> No.5411611
File: 108 KB, 781x1123, 1511736725834.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5411611

>>5411502
>implying the IRS is going to be getting transaction logs from every exchange in the world to crawl through the tens of millions of robo-transactions
You claim your "use tax" every year too, right? Anything you purchased online that you didn't pay sales tax on, you reported too, correct?

The IRS doesn't give a flying fuck about anything but seeing a cut of your profits when you cash out. As long as you report something, you're good. It's just more kike propaganda to scare crypto-users and attack Trump, same as their outright fucking jew-lies about "repealing Net Neutrality."

>> No.5411694

>>5411425
How much did you make $220k?

>> No.5411695

My fiances dad is a cpa and financial lawyer. He said you only pay when turned to fiat. There is zero way they can or will track milions of retards buying internet meme money.

>> No.5411723

>>5411694
$500k

>> No.5411765

>>5411695
i'm not a cpa or financial lawyer but i know 100% that's not true. crypto doesn't qualify for 1031 exchanges and the new bill they signed in today confirms that

>> No.5411822

>>5411695
Yeah he must not be up on the times with the new tax bill that's going to rape all of us.

Yay for "double" taxes, convoluting the system even more.

>> No.5411858

>>5411765
The new bill is for 2018 and beyond. It's not retroactive, right?

>> No.5411882
File: 340 KB, 1440x1602, Screenshot_20171222-035601.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5411882

>>5411510
The conclusion to that we are getting fucked, at least in amerikkka

If you want to keep coins just hold them and dont trade at all or youll end up paying almost 40% of your coin the gov

Or pull out now

Or of you sonehow have coin not connected to any banks or your information then we have to figure a way the trade decentralized

>> No.5411898

>>5411425
Why can't you claim like kind exchange.
They clarify under the 2018 code that cryptocurrenies do not qualify for like kind exchange so my impression is under 2017 you can claim like kind

>> No.5411899

>>5411694
Well fuck off then

>> No.5411912

>>5411765
That dose'nt mean they are going o spend the resources to track down and make sure every transaction is paid. This is the BitTorrent of currency, they have to way to police and enforce the law on everyone.
Yes you technically owe a capital gains tax on every gain you made. They have no way of traking or knowing that you realized those gains, they have no way of tracking or knowing how much crypto you currently hold. It's decentralized, so there's no bitcoin bank for them to subpoena. The best they can do is put up a stopgap at coinbase so they can tax all the crypto as its converted to USD. And going after the people not paying that tax is at the top of their list, and they have their work cut out for them.

>> No.5411915

>>5411858
I haven't heard anything about it being retroactive. https://discord.gg/JDS4tcX

>> No.5411917

Cash out enough for a plane ticket and a bribe and emigrate to Belize.

>> No.5411918

>>5411425
You have to do it secretly somehow so these spastics don't realize you have the money

>> No.5411922

I wonder if OMGs unbanked system will be able to help. If we used that with a decentralized exchange we'd be able to completely circumvent the entire system.

>> No.5411940

>>5411915
There have been other /biz/ threads of people saying it's not retroactive, which seems normal

Anyone have info?

>> No.5411977

>>5411858
Correct

>> No.5412077
File: 62 KB, 546x353, CRYPTO 911.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5412077

>>5411425
It is not sustainable. It's. Ov. Er.

>> No.5412236

>>5411502
the onus is on the exchange to provide a 10-99 for taxable events, no 10-99 no fucking taxes.

>> No.5412359

>>5411425
Can't pay taxes if you never cash out

>> No.5412454

>>5411425
I don't understand how you pay taxes on crypto to crypto exchanges

>> No.5412520

THIS x1000000000000

>> No.5412527
File: 8 KB, 480x360, 3453454.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5412527

>>5411940
>>5411915
>>5411765
I'm sorry guys, but whether or not its retroactive doesn't matter. It has always been the law that crypto-to-crypto is a taxable event. That loophole isn't really a loophole, its a grey area that in theory could be disputed in court, but in practicality it can't because the IRS has infinite amounts of power and can literally make up shit with the framework Congress and gives them.

Basically, we're all fucked. Well, technically we're fucked, because the IRS is going to have a hell of a time enforcing this. I would want until you get something in the mail before doing anything.

By the time they can analyze the chain correctly, and if they REALLY start pushing, youre going to see some crazy shit from Monero/Verge/Cloak and any other privacy oriented coin.

Hopefully everyone can see the real endgame of crypto, its literally a revolution against our evil government-bankster cartel. That's exactly why it was created. Darksend/Obfuscation isnt there just to be a cool feature!!! It's there to protect us against the buttrape that's the IRS.

>> No.5412671

you deserve it for buying into the crypto meme

>> No.5412778

If you owe 80k in taxes that means you made out like a bandit in this market. Stop crying.

>> No.5412785

>>5411425
>using centralized (((exchanges))) that report everything to the IRS
If you mined all your coins yourself or buy locally and only use decrentralized exchanges you womn't have this problem.

>> No.5412891

>>5412785
How does it explain 500k of income?
>>5412671
>you deserve it for buying into the crypto meme
He certainly does man. You got him. Having to pay 80K on 300k of income he wouldn't have unless he invested in crypto. WOW. What a loser. He's only going to have 220k that didn't have before crypto. Nothing even worth the effort.

>> No.5412937

I wonder how fucked I am.

I turned 3k into 75k this year. But I've made upwards of 5000 individual trades across multiple exchanges. The one I'm most worried about is GDAX/coinbase because they have my info and report to the IRS. I've never had more than 30k on GDAX. Everything else is hiding on binance.

I'm just a NEET who only made 4k this year from his burger flipping job. I had to cash out 12k for surgery. What do I do???? HELP

>> No.5412982

>>5412891
Sell locally for cash. Use cash for everything. Why do you need to cash out on 500k at once dumbass?

>> No.5412985

>>5412937
Download the information from the exchanges and run through https://bitcoin.tax/ and pay the fucking tax.

Why is this that hard?

Get info, run through program, find how you much you owe, and pay. I don't understand.

>> No.5413024

>>5412937
bitcoin.tax, you probably owe like 25-30K

>> No.5413044

>>5412937
why would you owe money? what is this meme seriously?

>> No.5413078

>>5412985
>>5413024

I use a lot of scammy exchanges and some of them don't have have that info past 30 days.

How would the IRS get my info from anywhere other than GDAX? I can't paying fucking 30k. My father is dying I need to pay for his retirement.

>> No.5413085

crypto taxes are voluntary

you only need to worry if you are coinbase trader of at least 20K in transactions

>> No.5413113

>>5411425
for fucking jesus fucking sheeet guys. just dont fucking cash out! buy cash from DM with 5% more to live and when you got shit ton of money just go to another country where the taxes are decent and cash out all you got. is it so fucking difficult?! for example in italy you dont have to pay taxes if you dont earn more than 50.000 euro per week. in beloruss the crypto is tax fucking free. c'mon...it's not that hard

>> No.5413201

>>5412937
Crypto is treated the same as stock. Federal taxes alone will count all your trades from under a year as short term and tax you in the 10% bracket for them all since your income is so low, which is nice.

So expect if you completely cashed out right now and all your trades were this year you had 72k in short term capital gains which will cost you around 7.2k in federal taxes.

For the state it completely depends. My shithole state for example, Illinois, will tax a flat 4.95% on my AGI (which includes short-term cap gains).

>t. some faggot in accounting that has to deal with cap gains tax annually

>> No.5413215

>>5411425

are you cashing out OP?

if not, why worry?

>> No.5413274

>>5411611

There's no proof for use tax, but the irs can find proof if the exchanges forks the into to them.

>>5411912

Not reporting income is fraud and there's no statue of limitation on fraud. If they ever find out, you're going to get a huge tax bill. And they can find out from the exchanges.

>> No.5413304

>>5413201

that honestly sounds way too good to be true but given your credentials it is a shimmering beam of hope

thanks anon

>> No.5413315

>>5412982

That's asking to get robbed.

>> No.5413399

>>5413113
>in italy you dont have to pay taxes if you dont earn more than 50.000 euro per week

Mama mia. Is that a typo?

>> No.5413439

>>5413274

income tax is fraud, if anything

criminal gangsters from irs should just fuck off

>> No.5413467

>>5413274

so, I have 70k in crypto. I've only withdrawn 14k to my bank. If the rest is still in coins, do I need to pay taxes on that, or just the 14k? (assuming I continue to hold)

>> No.5413550

>>5413467
do you have to pay taxes everytime your unrealized gains from stocks go up?

try not being autistic before posting

>> No.5413558

>>5413304
I'm an accounting graduate student and have had to deal with a 400k stock portfolio since I was 18. I don't know why these stupid niggers think you somehow owe 50% in capital gains when your income is under 9k. I've been abusing being in the same bracket as you for years in college.

>> No.5413563

>>5413399
in italy the cryto is basicly on the same level as the usd or any other currency other than euro. so if you convert your money in crypto and if the value of crypto rise you can take all the profit for you, on the pact that you don't earn more than 51.645 euro per week. otherwise you're going to pay 27% in taxes from the profit that you made.. beloruss instead had just made crulypto trade legal and tax free... it's you to choose now. wanna spend some money on vacation or you preffer spend much more to pay taxes. the crypto world is borderless, remember that

>> No.5413872

For reporting taxes this year you can use the grey area of like kind and only pay taxes on what you convert to fiat. This year's tax bill closes this loophole and for 2018 and beyond you technically should pay taxes on the net profit you gain for each crypto to crypto or crypto to fiat transaction. This isn't double taxing because say if i buy ETH at 600 then when I convert later from ETH to BTC where ETH is the usd equivalent of 800, i have to pay taxes on the 200 net profit. But then lets say that BTC doesn't change in value for a month and then i convert to USD. I don't have to pay taxes on that. Also, take into account the fact that you get to deduct up to 3,000 in losses. There are ways such as the FIFO and LIFO methods that I don't fully understand yet that minimize the taxes you pay. This is why stock traders have to be verified by an exchange first, cus this shit can be complicated. I think that if you at least try to report your taxes and fudge the numbers a little to your advantage, maybe by reporting the lowest USD pair for each major crypto to crypto transaction you'll be ok. There's no way you can come out of this without taking home a majority of what you made. Also holding for over a year will reduce your taxes since you have to pay capital gains taxes versus a regular gains tax. But this won't even be that much for most people since a lot of us are middle class or below. You autists want to be the next wolf of wall street but bitch about all the technical shit they deal with every day.

>> No.5413962

>>5413872
How does it work if say I own only one coin and day trade that coin. What if I made 10,000 day trading but at the end of the year the coin died and is now worth nothing. Would I seriously owe taxes on 10,000 when I was left with nothing?

>> No.5414360

>>5413962
Well, I know you get to deduct up to 3,000 in losses and there are ways of accounting your profits vs losses so that it minimizes the taxes you owe. My suggestion would be to plug in your trades into bitcoin.tax or if you're actually making this much money day trading contact a TA that has experience in this field.

>> No.5414484

>>5413872
>For reporting taxes this year you can use the grey area of like kind and only pay taxes on what you convert to fiat.
No you can't. Just because you really want something to be true doesn't mean it is. You need to report and pay tax on every trade and that's the way it's always been.

>>5413962
>What if I made 10,000 day trading but at the end of the year the coin died and is now worth nothing. Would I seriously owe taxes on 10,000 when I was left with nothing?
No. You can net your losses against your gains.

>> No.5414488

IF YOU'RE FECES ARE WORTHLESS NOW BUT YOU TURN INTO A CELEBRITY AND YOUR FECES ARE MORE VALUABLE TO YOUR FANS. YOU CAN ONLY CLAIM INCOME AND PAY TAXES ONCE YOU *SELL* YOUR SHIT FOR PROFITS. YOUR SHIT WHILE IN YOUR CELEBRITY ASSHOLE IS WORTH NOTHING UNTIL SOLD FOR FIAT CURRENCY

>> No.5414750

>>5414484
Although technically this is maybe true, the fact that the IRS has not spoken on the matter and also considering that cryptocurrencies are specifically mentioned in this tax reform bill (implying that people were able to use this loophole before), I feel like people can claim ignorance until now. Have there been any cases of people being audited for not reporting crypto to crypto taxes?

>> No.5414790

>>5414488
literally this. tax cucks btfo

>> No.5414859

>>5411723
If so that's less than 10% what are you complaining about.

>> No.5414861

>>5414360
Net loss of 3000 dollars.

>> No.5415129

>>5414859
80k>10%

>> No.5415187

>>5411425
If you're taxes are $80,000 for crypto that means you profited over $2.4 Million

How the fuck do you even care?

>> No.5415274

>>5415129
so thats 16% big deal, thats the lowest tax i've ever heard of so either this guy isn't calculating it correctly or he is larping or is just dumb. capital gains minimum is 20% now and thats for LONG TERM only otherwise its like 39% plus you have the obama surcharge on top of that so I have no idea where this guy is getting only 16% i would cash out everything today if i could get that low.

>> No.5415316

I've been spending a lot of time trying to research different countries in in europe timezones to get citizenship i and escape out of the "land of the free". Any recommendations on countries that its possible to do this? Im asking because all the research Im seeing is is its pretty much impossible because their immigration authorities arent just going to give you permission to reside in their country as a trader.

>> No.5415423

>>5411425
Assuming you are American- Unless you bought a different coin on every single trade, I doubt your owed tax doubled.
Please do proper research. Look up wash trade rules.
I think most of the panicking over taxes comes from people not knowing about wash trade rules.
You can even add your trading fees to your cost bases, so you might even owe less in taxes than what you figured in your first calculation.

>> No.5415483

>>5411765
>crypto doesn't qualify for 1031 exchanges

Good luck identifying trades or a trades basis. I've been through audits for hundreds of millions and IRS can't find shit. This is an even bigger needle in a haystack scenario.

>> No.5415505

>>5415423
*wash sale rules

>> No.5415675

>>5411822
>Yay for "double" taxes, convoluting the system even more.

Master's of Accountancy and 20 years in business.

The exact opposite of what the tax bill does. Everyone pays a little less and it simplifies the system tremendously. My guess is 99% of you larpers are taking the standard deduction, which just doubled, and are getting a lower tax bracket. The only people that pay more are high income earners who are spending outside their means.

>> No.5415733

>>5412671
>you deserve it for buying into the crypto meme

You only pay taxes if you make money, so who is the crypto meme joke on?

>> No.5415930
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5415930

>>5413439
This. You faggots should have used localbitcoin then you never would have had to worry about any of this. None of you can think ahead. Not surprising since most of you are children.

>> No.5416021

>>5415930
localbitcoin also tracks all your trades

>> No.5416036

>>5415423
wash sale doesn't apply to crypto because it's considered property by the IRS

>> No.5416169

>>5413085
t. poorfag

>> No.5416206

>>5415274
This isn't true,
Short term is taxable as your ordinary income tax bracket.

>> No.5416648

>>5414360
Thanks. No I don't actually make anything it was just a hypothetical after reading a bit about this new tax law.