Why save for retirement in this world?

[Anonymous No.53843862]

Real talk, should I bother saving for retirement given the trajectory of the world? I'm nearly 29 and have only just, due to poor decisions in my youth, gotten to a place where I can really put money away. But I worry about whether an IRA is a good idea when global collapse will be hitting before I'm old enough to retire. Part of me wants to put what I have in short term investments and part of me wants to be hopeful and save on the off chance that society gets its shit together.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous No.53843882]

>>53843862
>I'm nearly 29
you should be smarter than this by now

[Anonymous No.53843897]

>>53843882
I'm smart enough to do my research and understand that global order will have been turned on its head by the time I'm 65 or so.

[Anonymous No.53843903]

>>53843862
KEK first time on /biz/? Why do you think most of us are trying to get rich off crypto pnd’s this basedciety is not sustainable

[Anonymous No.53843909]

>>53843862
Uh yeah there's a really high chance society will not collapse and will just be a lot worse especially for you if you haven't been saving.

[Anonymous No.53843931]

>>53843909
I'd say the odds on collapse are higher if you look objectively at our situation
>>53843903
I mean half of you seem to think so and half think otherwise

[Anonymous No.53844302]

Is this the /biz/ version of edgy goths acting all nihilistic and gay? It's pure cringe.

[Anonymous No.53844304]

>>53843862
>>53843897
>>53843931
take your meds schizo

[Anonymous No.53844316]

>>53844302
I can assure you it's a genuine question
>>53844304
You haven't seen any of the headlines for the last, I dunno, ten years?

[Anonymous No.53844412]

>>53843862
Become a prepper so and invest in land and self sufficiency insulate your house very well.

[Anonymous No.53844419]

You don't know that for a fact, nigger. Regardless, any sort of saving or spending will go to waste if shit hits the wall. If you're that worried, invest in firearms and call it a day.

[Anonymous No.53844430]

go take a look at front pages in newspapers since the beginning of the press.

the world has been on the brink of full destruction for 200 years now. stop watching the news and ignore it all. the world is not as chaotic as the news says. theres pockets of evil here and there, but life goes on. dumb child

[Anonymous No.53844432]

>>53844316
You're not taking wealth to the grave with you.
Make of that as you like.

[Anonymous No.53844449]

>>53844419
You're right it's not a fact but it seems very likely
>>53844412
I'm kind of doing that
>>53844430
I'm dumb for looking at climate projections? People in the past didn't have the understanding we have now. The past is no indicator in this regard.
>>53844432
I'm aware of that

[Anonymous No.53844456]

btw you have a fear addiction, that is inflicted by news media and influencers. you are breaking into schizo ruby ridge territory. make it your number 1 goal to never look at any news source again, ever. or else it will never end for you. like a heroin addict

[Anonymous No.53844477]

>>53844449
the "97% of climate scientists believe we only have 20 years left" narritive has been alive since 1980. nobody can actually prove if temperature changes were man made or natural. we had an ice age 12000 years ago without a single drop of burnt fossil fuel. you are victim to media's number 1 profit model: fear. they dont actually give a fuck and will lie cheat and steal their way to the top of google. and youre fueling it.

[Anonymous No.53844489]

>>53843931
You’re wrong, objectively it’s 50/50 at worst, likely weighted in the favor of the world still turning and economies still functioning. Things being worse Tom Wagie doesn’t equal a global collapse. And saving for retirement still makes Mr. Wagie better off in that situation.

[Anonymous No.53844495]

>>53843862
Because what if things don't collapse?

[Anonymous No.53844507]

Get a good rainy day fund and then live your life. Retirement is not going to happen. We're in a socio-economic-spiritual and most importantly, environmental decline. I thought the environment would take us out, but now AI I think will do it

[Anonymous No.53844524]

>>53844456
>>53844477
You might be correct. I've spent the last three days spending all my free time doing research trying to answer this question. I haven't slept in that time and I've bitten my nails clean off. I was just trying to look into investments and the question "will the world even be here when I'm old enough to retire" kinda broke me, I think.
>>53844489
Well I am Mr. Wagie for sure
>>53844495
What if they do?
>>53844507
Yeah it's like, either way we're fucked. It's not just the climate

[Anonymous No.53844898]

>>53844524
You understand history has had millions of doomsayers who have been wrong, right?
Read “When Prophecy Fails.”

[Anonymous No.53844944]

>>53844898
Scientists with the most recent and verfiable data aren't really comparable to people who knew nothing about the world thinking that Jesus was gonna come back or whatever

[Anonymous No.53844994]

>>53844449
Every generation thought their generation was the one literally since the generation of Jesus, for 2000 years. Sometime their society ends, vast majority of the time nothing significant happens. Even when society collapses, it's not some SHTF tier thing. The Roman empire fell and nothing changed for decades

[Anonymous No.53845020]

>>53844994
Again, it was one thing for ancient people to see some big plague or a famine and think "well shit, that's the world done for". It's another to see scientific data on how much of the planet is going to be rendered inhospitable, how many climate refugees there will be and how that will completely disrupt world order, etc etc

[Anonymous No.53845045]

>>53844524
You sound like you've developed an anxiety disorder. I'd recommend watching Jordan Petersons 2017 maps of meaning it's about dealing with doomsday in a sense. Also watch recent interviews on his channel with scientists about climate, they present different data than the mainstream and have come to different conclusions. Essentially climate has become a nihilistic doomsday cult.

[Anonymous No.53845224]

>>53845045
I will watch it. Thank you.

[Anonymous No.53845348]

Imagine being young enough to get completely fucked by the current system, old enough to understand and fully comprehend the system and what it's doing to you, and even fucking considering an IRA as your lifeboat.

[Anonymous No.53845420]

>>53845348
Here's the thing: I've been trying to seek investment advice and that's what literally everyone seems to say for someone my age/situation. It's insane to me how nobody seems to want to acknowledge the reality of the situation. It's to the point where I feel like I must be missing something.

What do I do then? Short-term investments to maximize my enjoyment of the here and now?

[Anonymous No.53845432]

>>53843862
Because in 40 years when everything is still fine and society continues chugging along you'll feel like a poor dipshit.

[Anonymous No.53845445]

>>53843862

[Anonymous No.53845483]

>>53845445
Now post temperature increases. Post the estimations of how many jobs are going to disappear into the maws of automation and AI. Post the land loss estimates as tides rise, and how many people currently live on that land and will have to be relocated en masse. Post estimated loss of arable land while all this is going on.
We're fucked.
>>53845432
See above. You're assuming it will go on as it has because that's what it's always done, which is fallacious.

[Anonymous No.53845487]

>>53843897
>by the time I'm 65
That is an unduly optimistic assessment.

[Anonymous No.53845498]

>>53845487
I meant that by the time I would be able to retire, things would have long gone to shit.

[Anonymous No.53845544]

>>53845498
Well, the world went through a 4-decade bull market due to the boomers making their way through life, but now there's no more juice to squeeze. Now all we have are banking crises, demographic collapse in most places, resource depletion, geopolitical instability, wars, skyrocketing inflation, and economic stagnation (with worse to come). Governments are very powerful and they're not above confiscating assets via various tricks, like extra taxes, inflation, raising the retirement age at which you can access IRAs, preventing people from selling, etc.
The problem with "short-term investments" is that they're mostly rugpulls, so if you go for them, you'll just lose your money faster. I'd focus on capital preservation, i.e. buying anything that's difficult to dilute and difficult to seize.

[Anonymous No.53845569]

>>53845544
Better than nothing I guess.

[Anonymous No.53845668]

>>53843897
Nah we will end up like Japan

Social security will last until 2097 with this new update

[Anonymous No.53845719]

>>53843862
If you don’t plan on having a family then go for it. There’s really no point in saving for retirement unless you have kids and grandkids that you can eventually pass your wealth onto

[Anonymous No.53845747]

>>53845569
You have to go with the meta. 1980-2020, the meta was passive investing into SPY via IRAs and 401(k)s. Now the meta is the shifting of the monetary premium as people flee fiat. The dollar will likely be the only fiat that survives this, though there are too many unknowns there, and you won't get rich off the dollar even in that case.

[Anonymous No.53845934]

>>53845719
No kids. I don't get people who are having kids now.
>>53845668
What, the whole world will? Nah
>>53845747
I'm honestly not sure what to do with that

[Anonymous No.53845950]

>>53844304
>1pbtid

>>53843862
In general, I would first invest in land, Earthship-style building, knowledge of permacultural practices, Charles Dowding-style gardening, preservation and self-defense techniques as a minimum investment. This isn't just sensationalist prepper rhetoric, but if you look at all of history, the FOUNDATION for the individual to thrive.

Next, investments in the current system are unstable long-term (pension funds et. al), so best keep a 5-year investment window for all your picks and rotate them as you see fit.

All the best anons, and Do Well.

[Anonymous No.53845977]

>>53843862
When people like aoc get in power they will definitely steal all your retirement money. X2 if you are white

[Anonymous No.53845980]

Do yourself a favor and watch Blade Runner. That's eerily similar to the future we'll have in tee minus 40-50 years from now. Nothing but spycams floating around everywhere and androids so real which'll make confused as to who's a human and who isn't.

As it goes with the money part, I'd say it isn't worth going with a 401k/IRA/Roth, considering the rate at which society is rotting thanks to the Soros types bankrolling it's destruction.

[Anonymous No.53846003]

>>53844944
The book isn't even close to being about that. It's about people, like you, doubling down on preconceived end of the world ideas and laser focusing on those scenarios in the face of dozens or hundreds of other possibilities. You're acting like a child.
>"N-no! What if it IS the end of the world this time!?"
There are so many other things. What if things are worse, similar, better, etc. You're completely refusing to think, you're emotionally reacting.

[Anonymous No.53846039]

>>53846003
What book are you on about?
Also, you're just coping here. The fact that other scenarios are possible does not make them likely.

[Anonymous No.53846146]

>>53846039
When Prophecy Fails.
You are the coper, friend. Yes the world could end tomorrow. Nukes could have killed everyone in the 70's. The fact that you're so convinced "the science" says we'll all die, without actually understanding the history of climate change or global economics, is a cope. Go ahead, throw away any chance at a happy future and when you're miserable and 58 tell yourself "ah, 5 more years, it'll all come crashing down."
Fucking jewish demoralizer.

[Anonymous No.53846165]

>>53846146
Kek people like this is why America is turning into nigger spic fest refusing to acknowledge a problem head in the sand ideally this poster would be killed

[Anonymous No.53846175]

>>53846146
You have zero arguments as to why the science is actually incorrect. I'm supposed to trust one shitposter over literally thousands of academics? Fuck off.

[Anonymous No.53846328]

>>53843862
picrel

4chan's "spam filter" is a fucking joke

[Anonymous No.53846360]

what a useless topic,like all of them.
End is coming,but most of us will be RIP until then.its gonna be 3 waves,you could say.1st will kill the most and we'll witness most of us,ww3 included.2nd will be in the 3.5 years with you-know-who,cca 200 mil. left.3rd is already history-you go to the good place or bad one,no other choices here.
Yeah call me crazy or jew,I'm neither, but know this:since 1925,thing are already going into a slowly, but surely direction. ww1-was to appear a certain country.ww2-was for Israel to exist again.ww3-mostly will center around these 2 although Russia and China will also play a role.So,whether you like it or not,no1 should wish 4 Russia's big defeat or dissapearance. Why?Because in that moment-we're all fucked,and mr. devil is already here,laughing his ass out. Well,we're talking about mid 2030s,but still.

[Anonymous No.53846365]

>>53846328
That seems fair I guess. Though putting only a little into an IRA seems pointless. How much am I really gonna benefit if I only chuck in like $100 a month?

[Anonymous No.53846376]

>>53844477
>the "97% of climate scientists believe we only have 20 years left" narritive has been alive since 1980
since the late 60's to be exact. The initial alarmism was "The Big Freeze", another ice age and global agriculture would collapse leading to mass famine and starvation. That narrative completely and utterly fell apart, so they went the other direction. There's always somebody, somewhere, trying to make money by selling you FEAR. Sometimes they will wind up correct - but that's not the point of why they are selling it. They are selling it to make money and fuck the rest.

[Anonymous No.53846392]

>>53844456
DING DING DING

[Anonymous No.53846419]

>>53845668
>Nah we will end up like Japan

If only. More like South Africa for the states. Only Israel will end up like Japan.

[Anonymous No.53846427]

>>53845483
>go on as it has
No one is saying things can't or won't be radically different, but the idea that accumulating wealth is not worthwhile to your future self is pretty retarded. Extreme climate change, mass AI job loss, hordes of brown immigrants and births, and any other cataclysmic happening you can imagine doesn't negate this.

[Anonymous No.53846446]

>>53843862
Doomtard
Nothing is messed up
Save money
Stop fapping
Exercise, drink water
Sleep

[Anonymous No.53846460]

>>53843862
saving isnt a bad idea but I imagine official government retirement funds will be phased out soon. A lot of countries are already talking about raising the retirement age and shit. It's inevitable imo.

Probably not oging to have a world ending tier collapse but I foresee a legitimate depression oncoming, one that we may be in for a while.

[Anonymous No.53846489]

>>53845483
Why don't you post them?

I would like to politely ask if you have done any real research to uncover similar statistical trends (reading hysterical self-serving doomer fantasy posts and taking them as a data points does not count)

If I post them they won't actually change your mind due to ego-resistance, but if you feel you have "discovered" them, then you get to feel important and are more likely to accept reality

[Anonymous No.53846504]

>>53844430
The time period 2020-2022 is all the evidence you need that everything is FUCKED. Honestly don't think I need to elaborate, it's obvious and you're blind or naive if you disagree.
>>53844449
>climate projections
Kek
There's way worse shit to worry about, stupid kid.

[Anonymous No.53846540]

>>53846419
>>53845934
Usa is already headed to Japan economically
Real estate and yield controls
We ofc aren't as industrial so it will be a socialized form instead of Japan's bug slave

[Anonymous No.53846551]

Think of it as it of a less of a retirement but more of been not an old age bum

[Anonymous No.53846661]

>>53845020
>It's another to see scientific data on how much of the planet is going to be rendered inhospitable, how many climate refugees there will be and-

Scientific data cannot make predictions. It can only state what was observed, empirically, in a (hopefully) controlled setting, with maximum limitation on confounding variables. The act of projecting some expected representation of the future, using past observations, involves some degree of something that *isn't* science at all, typically statistics - the creation of a model, an attempt at creating a representation of the future, based on a finite set of past observations.

We cannot observe the future and thus cannot verify the model's output rigorously in the present. We can anticipate/approximate some things fairly well, by extrapolating from so called "natural laws" that we have discovered - things like gravity, thermodynamics, Maxwell's equations. What we cannot observe, and have much more difficulty in anticipating, is whether the system we expect to be closed (i.e. conformant to a natural law) will actually be so in the future (will confounding variables make their way in over time?).

Since systems such as climate (indeed most all systems) can never be considered "closed" systems in practice, they cannot be anticipated with any real degree of "natural law" scientific accuracy beyond, say, a few weeks. This goes for tracking meteors or anticipating volcanic eruptions etc as well. The user must understand the limitations of these models and be cautious in relying too heavily on any of their outputs. Unless, of course, the user is incentivized to outright ignore or abuse the limitations of the models to cook up results which serve their own vested interests... fuck the truth for a $ (grant money).

The biggest issue with most statistical modeling is the creator designing it with an expected outcome in mind and calling it "science". There's nothing scientific about that.

[Anonymous No.53846697]

>>53846365
>How much am I really gonna benefit if I only chuck in like $100 a month?
run it through a compound interest calculator and figure it out

[Anonymous No.53846749]

>>53846504
Well, yes. We do indeed have more to worry about. Part of my point, no?
>>53846489
This is just you admitting you have nothing. Post what you have if you have it. Otherwise, it's plain as day you don't.
>>53846460
Best way to save if that's the case?
>>53846446
Not an argument
>>53846427
Those things happening eliminates the usefulness of a retirement find though.
>>53846376
How do you explain recent trends then?
>>53846551
More of a what now?
>>53846697
I did and it's really not much at all over just putting it in an index fund or something similar
>>53846661
I hope you prove correct

[Anonymous No.53846808]

You think you have it bad at 29, now imagine the zoomers. At least you grew up in relatively hopeful and optimistic times, while these poor zoomer fuckers were doomer blackpilled since birth.

Anyone who genuinely thinks the new beyond fucked generation will start "saving up" like their boomer parents is a straight up moron. absolutely no one believes anymore that you can "make it" through regular working and saving anymore, everyone is aware that absolutely everything is a scam even money itself so might as well throw everything at FartCoin 9000 and see what happens. People will only become even more desperate and degenerate at the same time.
Everyone is desperately searching for any kind of lottery ticket to escape the rat race, boomer fairy tale land is over

[Anonymous No.53846969]

>>53846749
>How do you explain recent trends then?
I think it's something to be concerned about going forward, but it's not as simple as reducing carbon emissions. If it really is to become a climate crisis similar to what precipitated the migration period of late antiquity, ala the collapse of the Roman empire.... it will require a balanced approach to transition the global economy toward cleaner, more efficient energy sources. Only cleaner isn't going to cut it, unless we don't mind civilization collapsing for entirely different reasons other than climate. Technology holds answers to problems of this scale that we cannot currently comprehend, just as ever.

>I did and it's really not much at all over just putting it in an index fund or something similar
That's essentially what an index fund is doing over a long enough time period - compound interest

>I hope you prove correct
Life is like a ride in an amusement park.

[Anonymous No.53846993]

>>53846969
Yes but an index fund doesn't have the 59 years old rule
Technology thus far isn't addressing the problem fast enough but I guess these things do move by leaps and bounds so it's admittedly hard to dismiss the possibility that something gets developed. They're on a clock though.

[Anonymous No.53847160]

>>53846993
>index fund doesn't have the 59 years old rule
True. The tradeoff is between not being able to cash out your gains for ~30 years, and paying cap gains on any sales. But in a Roth IRA, you can cash out the contributions at any time with no penalty whatsoever. Only the gains must stay.

You can be a swingie (if that tickles your fancy) and pay absolutely no tax in the process. Think the markets going to crash but sitting on some fat gains? Fuck it, go in cash, $0 cost in taxes and slurp the bottom. Doing the same in a non-retirement account would get you slapped with cap gains tax - every, single, time. So swingies win in retirement accounts (assuming they can actually swing trade).

If you were to robotically buy and hold SPY vs doing the same in a retirement account, the only difference would be the long term cap gains you pay at the end. But that's still going to be, at current rates, 20-35% of the total gain when you factor in federal and state. And that rate can (and probably will) change. Probably higher. 30% federal? 35%? Before you know it, it could be up to half of the gains gone in federal and state cap gains taxes, 30 years from now.

If you think the whole concept of a retirement account will be shitcanned within the next 30 years, or the US will collapse, then that factors into your calculus as a potential risk. But ultimately if you are thinking of preserving wealth at all, the #1 thing you want working for you is compound interest, and the #2 thing you want to work for you is minimizing tax liability. Over long time horizons, those are the most important factors for maximum long term returns. Maybe there are other options (moving to a tax haven and saving there?) where you could exploit these two factors and avoid the risks. But that's going to be more difficult and much more expensive, than hoping uncle sam doesn't shove his big red white and blue dick where the sun don't shine within the next 30 years.

[Anonymous No.53847172]

>>53846749
>Well, yes. We do indeed have more to worry about. Part of my point, no?
When others asked you for specifics, you brought up "climate projections" which are a relative nothingburger (because they're mostly wrong) compared to
>medical tyranny and loss of bodily autonomy
>increasing totalitarianism globally
>stolen elections
>antiwhite cult religion being institutionalized
>mass third world immigration
>demographic collapse
>unending proxy wars and potential WW3
Etc. There's way worse shit than "climate catastrophy", but I suppose my standards are too high for normalfags to understand physics, chemistry and statistics to a level where they can tell that it's bullshit.

[Anonymous No.53847194]

>>53847172
Are you retarded? I was agreeing with you that there are a whole lot of ways we're fucked. I just picked one. I could have picked any of the ones you mentioned.
And climate change is real despite your denialism, smoothbrain

[Anonymous No.53847214]

>>53847194
>climate change
This is real trivially, because climate is dynamic, not static. But the bullshit models they pawn off in academia are not. Unironically dyor.

[Anonymous No.53847233]

>>53843862
kids are usually pessimistic about the future.

they're also usually wrong about the future.

[Anonymous No.53847239]

>>53846749
I have already posted 20 trends disproving your worldview, they didn't budge you a inch. You ignored them and blew a smokescreen to hide behind with dramatic loaded questions. Because if you were wrong about this issue and the world is getting better overall, then that would feel bad. So you do some intellectual dishonesty and misdirection so that you can "win" the argument, and look big-strong-man socially.
But you're only hurting yourself...
Why don't you go to Our World in Data in look it up yourself? Or Gapminder. Or UN Stats Department.
Please. I am on my knees and begging you:
Just go and look, for your own peace of mind.
Give doing your own research just one try; type "Climate data trend" into the search box on any of those websites. Browse the data for yourself, doing get it interpreted for you by some self-serving media priest or schizo on youtube, do it for yourself. Please, try to match the 20 trends I already posted with just one showing how much the world is going to warm over the next 100 years.
Just start looking. Don't think "I can't do it"
Just go and look.

[Anonymous No.53847242]

>>53847214
I have done my research. Have you?
>dynamic, not static
I don't even think you know what that means
>>53847233
It's not kids. The scientific community is mainly boomers and Gen x.

[Anonymous No.53847273]

>>53847239
You posted stats divorced from the overall picture.So the fuck what is crop yield is up, that means nothing when you look at the amount of arable land we're set to lose. Any stat on that list can be dismissed when you look at future projections. You know this, yet you're being intellectually dishonest about it.
Why would I feel bad about the world getting better? Your peduso-psychology doesn't even try to make sense
Your method there ignored future projections. You're trying to predict the future by the past instead of by applying what's happening now and extrapolating. By this logic, AI can't replace jobs because AI didn't exist historically. See how easy it is to be a blind optimist?

[Anonymous No.53847334]

>>53847242
>have done my research. Have you?
Clearly you haven't if you don't know that "dynamic" and "changing" are synonymous. Or maybe you're ESL, can't tell desu. This anon already spelled it out for you anyway >>53846661.
They create flawed models based on cherrypicked data so they can extrapolate it to an extreme conclusion and take their "research" to climate activist orgs to farm grant money and repeat the cycle.

[Anonymous No.53847355]

>>53847334
I'm aware they're synonymous. It just doesn't change my original point. It's weird that you can't see that.
You talk a lot of talk for someone with no counter-arguments. It's easy to say "they cherry pick data" when you have no evidence of this.

[Anonymous No.53847399]

>>53843862
Imagine unironically being so stupid to believe this. Can’t wait to order McDonald’s from you in 50 years lmao

[Anonymous No.53847565]

>>53847273
>trying to predict the future by the past instead of by applying what's happening now and extrapolating
holy mother of tautology OP... extrapolating, in the mathematical sense, is a fancy way of saying "predict the future" by extending the slope of a regression curve or the cycle of a wave. All empirical data is, by definition, obtained from past observations. Extrapolation is by no means an act of prophecy.

Regarding the credibility of climate models which suggest unsustainable levels of warming to come in the future (or statistical models more generally), a few questions need asked:
what data are they feeding the models?
how was this data collected?
how reliable is this data?
what methods were used to determine the "proper" variable weightings of the model (uh oh subjectivity)?
what confounding factors, if any, do the authors of the model note as weaknesses?
what confounding factors are the authors of the model either unaware of, or unwilling to make note of to the public?
what vested interests do the authors have?

Many models exist showing a strong positive correlation between certain racial groups and crime rate. Is it because they *are* that race, that makes their crime rate higher? Or are there other variables at play which are ignored in a simple race vs crime rate dichotomy? Perhaps variables we could not even measure in any precise, scientific manner? That's a much simpler problem to solve (why x race has higher crime rate than y race), and yet confounding variables are oozing all over it.

Climate is infinitely more complex (climate change, even moreso), with confounding variables so common that we struggle to predict a weekly forecast. Anyone pushing models as representative truth is peak Dunning-Kruger. Models are crude representations of what reality *might* be. A dice roll, likely loaded. That's all we can say. A possibility. Do not take these things as self evident, tautological truths.

[Anonymous No.53847567]

>>53847399
Imagine thinking you know better than the leading scientific, economic, and political thinkers of the day

[Anonymous No.53847568]

>>53844477
>we had an ice age 12000 years ago
>without burning any fossil fuels
>so human caused climate change not real
I ping pong between laughing at people who don't understand human caused climate change and being disappointed with the education system. I'm an ACrepairfag and understand the basic chemistry of ozone depletion, so can any literate child. Dipshits like you figure out that CNN exagerates everything then make the conclusion that detrimental human caused climate change and pollution aren't a big deal.

[Anonymous No.53847618]

>>53847565
I don't think you understand extrapolation as well as you think you do. You also failed to understand my point but nevermind, I'm not phrasing it a third time.
As to your questions, no reputable scientific study fails to answer what you've asked. You can easily find this out yourself. It wouldn't be taken seriously by the scientific community if these things weren't known.
Your race analogy doesn't work. Yes, we cannot know from stats alone why certain races are more violent. But we know that they are currently, and from that we can reasonably determine that they will likely be in the future unless something changes. Understanding the variables, while important for solutions, isn't actually needed to observe the trend.
You assume I and others like me assume the models will be entirely accurate. Of course they won't be. That's not how models work. But when the models are so bleak that even the best possible outcome means mass human suffering, you've got to acknowledge the problem. Otherwise you're just being dishonest.

[Anonymous No.53847709]

>>53847355
>You talk a lot of talk for someone with no counter-arguments. It's easy to say "they cherry pick data" when you have no evidence of this.
How about the famous hockey stick graph which is even today still used to justify public policy even though it was taken to court? Anyway, you're clueless and you just accuse anons ITT of not knowing what simple words mean to advance your stance, which is tardtier rhetoric desu. I'll say again, dyor.

[Anonymous No.53847773]

>>53847355
>It's easy to say "they cherry pick data" when you have no evidence of this.
Do you notice how the models always suggest the same thing? Where are the models that suggest global temperatures aren't increasing unsustainably?

"Oh, well that's just scientific consensus! It's a foregone conclusion."

Major scientific breakthroughs of the past, have NOT been the result of scientific consensus. They often fly in the face of foregone conclusions. Initially ridiculed as preposterous as they in some form or fashion go against the prevailing consensus of the times - battle tested against contrary views over long periods and various vested interests until finally, they remain the only possible explanation. Is this the case with what we see in climate modeling?

My answer is a resounding: no. And the reason why climate models have never been battle tested against contrary views, goes back to confounding variables: I can't say that those models which produce future projections are wrong, because that would require a priori knowledge of the future! And the future is just one massive confounding variable. I could make my own models with my own data, methods, what have you, and come back and say "AHA! But my model says this!". But then those on the other side would say precisely what I've just told you. That my results don't matter, and my model is shit, because there's nothing that can be observed from future projections, thus nothing that can be scientifically verified about it. Yet their models are "the right ones" and mine are the work of a madman. Starting to sound an awful lot like religion? Funny that.

Also just look at where the money is going. It's completely one-sided and reeks of political imbroglio. If the models ARE correct, then where's the solution? All the solutions proposed so far are completely inadequate. But no, instead, we just get more models. Milk the business model for what it's worth.

[Anonymous No.53847818]

>>53847618
>the models are so bleak that even the best possible outcome means mass human suffering
wow man these models are really fucking spooky, we should just like, trust the experts and the government lol

[Anonymous No.53847873]

>>53844302
The actual Goths came out ahead during the collapse of Rome

[Anonymous No.53848068]

>>53843931
>I'd say the odds on collapse are higher if you look objectively at our situation
you're a dumbass doomer anon and ill tell you why. you're not looking objectively at the situation, you're looking at every bad thing happening in the world and blindly swallowing doomer propaganda about global collapse fed to you by the media. it's still the best time in history to live. there has been recessions, economic downturns, wars, fighting and conflict since the beginning of history. muh society isnt collapsing cause some eurofags in proto-russia are getting ground up. you think you're smart for believing all this shit but in reality you're just another goy drinking their goyslop. earn money. buy btc. fuck buy gold if you have to. save it til you're older. life goes by faster than you can expect and youll be there before you know it.

picrel, literally everyone when they find out you're a nihilist

[Anonymous No.53848087]

>>53846808
Sounds based to me.

[Anonymous No.53848283]

>>53846146
>>53846661
There's a 50% chance that OP is a troll, 50% chance that he's some retarded doomer who runs Rick and Morty on repeat, and a 100% chance that he is a faggot.
As for me, I intend to contribute to a Roth IRA regardless. If I make it to age 59, that's great. If I don't make it to age 59, not a problem either as the money can help out my children or godchildren or whomever. If I make it to age 59 and the world has permanently changed from economic collapse or climate change or whatever, I'll make do and adjust just like every single generation on Earth had to do when faced with struggle.

[Anonymous No.53848290]

>>53848283
Good goyim! Please keep contributing to your Roth IRA! People like you are filthy animal meant to be shot on sight

[Anonymous No.53848302]

>>53843862
stuff takes decades. Forming a 20 year plan isnt irrational

[Anonymous No.53848314]

>>53848290
>he doesn't know about ERISA
ngmi

[Anonymous No.53848320]

>>53848290
It will be extremely ironic if, you know, he retires and lives out his final years in relative luxury as you eke out your final days in some WEF sponsored pod, subsisting on bugs and whatever else they can scrounge up on the social security dole for you at the time. But you know, the world's gonna end and all so fuck yeah! Fuck saving, fuck capital formation, its nigger time.

[Anonymous No.53848333]

>>53848302
For me it'd be 30 years
>>53848283
I'm not a troll and I'm not a doomer. I can just read a fucking scientific study. Unlike you apparently.
>>53848068
This is just cope, my guy. All based around the present being good and not looking to the future. Just sad.
>>53847818
Yes it's crazy to trust the people whose entire job is studying this
>>53847709
You can't fairly say dyor when you clearly haven't. Still no arguments.
>>53847773
>then where's the solution?
Now you're getting it, genius. There is none. If they were proposing one I might be wary of their motives. But they know there isn't one. And so do you if you're being honest.
>>53848320
Personally I'm not against saving or capital formation. I'm just worried about how much time I ought to realistically save for

[Anonymous No.53848336]

>>53848320
Also, if shit gets that bad I'd just kill myself frankly. If/when collapse happens, I'm not living through it. My retirement plan in that eventuality is unironically a bullet.

[Anonymous No.53848339]

>>53848320
Where did you get from my post that I said fuck saving? I’m saying only the best goys still contribute to their fag1ks and need to be killed

[Anonymous No.53848448]

>>53843862
Christ is King. Hope you realize all the stuff the elites are pushing is straight out of the Bible. Like do they really not care that their New World Order/One World Government is exactly what the Bible says the world would do near the end times. I got the same mindset as you, except I'll still try my hardest to retire early. Maybe when I hit my 30s my views will change and I won't mind tossing money around, but right now investing is my focus.

[Anonymous No.53848456]

>>53848448
What investments specifically

[Anonymous No.53849342]

>>53845934
>I'm honestly not sure what to do with that
In the late 70s, 401(k)s were introduced, allowing people to invest into the stock market as a form of retirement. Before that, most pensions were "defined benefit", i.e. the company paid you some fixed amount; after that, they switched to "defined contribution", meaning you paid a certain amount, but got whatever you got - if the stock market was good, you got a lot, if not, then not. Most of these pension contributions went into the S&P500 (which is an index, not something you can, per se, buy), meaning SPY (which is an ETF designed to mirror the returns of the S&P500). These contributions were price-insensitive, meaning that people paid in each month and their pension funds bought, no matter what. This has been going on for 40 years. If you have a price-insensitive buyer that buys a lot, it pushes up the price of something. In the limit, the price-insensitive buyer makes the price go parabolic because, even if there's only 1 share left on the market, he'll buy, no matter the price. Nowadays, when a new company is added to the S&P500, SPY can't even buy it anymore because there's so much money and the company is so small (relatively speaking), that there just aren't enough shares to buy. Likewise, SPY now owns >50% of many of the companies in the index - those can't be sold at anything close to the quoted price. Now, when the price goes parabolic upwards when people buy, it also descends parabolically when people sell.
Suppose that SPY holds 99% of shares of the constituent companies. The price moves up sharply because a fuckload of money is competing for the remaining 1%. Now suppose there is a major selloff - not the "selloffs" you hear about in the media, but people actually trying to cash out en masse. If there is no buyer for all of those shares (and there isn't, because the buyer was SPY, which is selling in this scenario), then the first 1% of sellers get out at nearly market price.

[Anonymous No.53849367]

Silver and gold will help you save money outside the Jewish system

[Anonymous No.53849410]

>>53849342
The next 5%, say, get out at a 10% discount. The next 15% get out at maybe a 30% discount. The next 60% get out at a 75% discount. These are just illustrative numbers, but the point they're meaning to convey is that you're not able to sell at nearly the price you see when you pull up $SPY.
Pic related: gamma is the price when there's a lot of shares to still buy, alpha is the last few percent (lot of money competing for few remaining shares). Beta when the buying has stopped and the selling starts (now there's a lot of shares competing for little money). Delta is when the rush of selling has stopped (few would-be sellers, but more money because the shares are "cheap" now). This is obviously just the factor of buying/selling pressure; a real-world price chart is influenced by other factors like momentum, central bank interference, etc.
Now, the boomers are retiring and they're not paying into their 401(k)s anymore, thus the buying pressure disappears. Who can buy all those shares that they've amassed during 40 years? Millennials/Xers can't, they're poor, so that leaves central banks. If the latter buy, they buy with printed money, so they might keep the nominal price up, but not the real price, since their buying inflates the currency.
There's some other complicating factors like the fact that people flee into the US market in times of crisis, but the point is that you're unlikely to make any sort of return by buying the S&P500, much less any other "safe index fund". That was viable in 1980, not today.
So what's the monetary premium? The monetary premium is the value attributed to money simply because it's money. Money is, in and of itself, a valuable technology because it allows you to buy "anything" later, so it's better than barter: you don't have to have sheep in case the grain-merchant needs sheep, you don't need to house and feed the sheep, you don't have to fractionally divide the sheep (which you can't).

[Anonymous No.53849442]

>>53844316
reading the headlines was your first mistake. stop consuming mainstream media, it's a fed tool.

[Anonymous No.53849452]

>>53849410
Gold has, no matter what gold-people tell you, almost 0 monetary premium. It's price is largely the result of speculation (plus price suppression and such - the real world is complicated). It also has little industrial uses, despite what they also tell you. Yeah, it's a good conductor of heat and electricity and whatnot, but nobody is buying it for that, and also not for jewelry.
Long story short: as people schizo out about inflation, they'll start treating other things as money. Silver, gold, Bitcoin, baseball cards. Most of these will fail, because who gives a fuck about baseball cards, really. Some won't. If e.g. the Euro goes down to 0.70 USD-cents, people into the Eurozone will start to panic and rush to buy, let's just say, gold. The price of gold then shoots up. I'm not saying that gold will be THE money, I can't possibly know that, it's just an example.
Value is basically what sloshes around in the markets: people poured value into the S&P500, thus its price went up for 40 years. If they try to exit it, its price crashes, and goes somewhere else, and the price of that will shoot up. If value only accumulates short-term somewhere, we call it a "bubble". If it accumulates longer-term, we call it a "bull market".

[Anonymous No.53849476]

>>53843862
Just buy gold or monero, the world isn't going to end nor humanity, even nuclear war wouldn't end civilization much less tribalism
Climate change is a hoax, the only thing that could cuck you out of savings are the great reseters but physical gold is immune to that and monero might be immune depending on the severity of internet censorship, even then the most hardcore great reseters seem to be a tail risk

[Anonymous No.53849488]

Since OP seems to be a retard I will leave this reminder
https://extinctionclock.org/

[Anonymous No.53849494]

>>53849452
None of this is a hedge against the other risks that might materialize, so I'd buy dry rice and beans and such too. Your portfolio doesn't do you any good if you're some starved corpse somewhere. If you're in the US, you should be fine, but a lot of the world will be a lot less stable. If you're in, e.g. North Africa, you're fucked.

[Anonymous No.53849496]

>>53849342
>then the first 1% of sellers get out at nearly market price.
Sounds like a ponzi.

[Anonymous No.53849498]

>>53843862
My retirement plan is some rope. Fuck this gay ass world.

[Anonymous No.53849525]

>>53849496
You said it, not me.

[Anonymous No.53849552]

>>53849525
>You said it, not me.
And yet, you can't refute the statement.

[Anonymous No.53849665]

>>53849552
If you ask me, you should always trust your reason. You have it (lel) for a reason.

[Anonymous No.53849795]

>>53845420
You buy xrp. No, I don't give a shit what some street shutter has to say to this. Just buy it and hold

[Anonymous No.53849811]

Shit certainly could go down, at any time. Nuclear war is possible. Pandemics and environmental collapse are possible. Then again it could just coast along for decades, or centuries. It could wind down slowly. Technology could take off and propel us into a crazy future. What should you do?? I don't know hehe.

[Anonymous No.53849894]

>>53843903
It's not all about profits but crypto has the potential to take over fiat and give users decentralization with lists of profit. The utility is also a major keeper for me and I see the sector of data privacy and decentralized communication to be promising

[Anonymous No.53850786]

Good thread.

[Anonymous No.53850869]

OP thinks shills are /biz/

[Anonymous No.53851133]

>>53843862
the world isn't going to end. it will get incrementally worse, but it won't all fall apart. you're on track to becoming "that guy," a minimum wage retard still working at 75 because social security doesn't pay enough to rent a studio apartment on the niggery side of town. no family or children, no car, no teeth, compulsively mumbles to himself all day, uneven gait due to un-diagnosed neurological problems -- you know exactly who i'm talking about.

[Anonymous No.53851222]

>>53843862
>why save for retirement
because what if the world doesn't collapse mong? Are you a master trader that knows how to trade what happens in a total global collapse and how to get out with your riches and into something that will survive into the next eon?
Of course you aren't. Is the world probably more likely to collapse right now than it has since America won its independence? probably...but even if that's the case, the odds are low, and the odds of you somehow surviving the turmoil because you didn't fund an IRA or 401k or something is astronomically low. If America collapses, then that's basically game over for the global economy for bare minimum a decade and probably multiple decades. You don't want to get old and not have anything saved up. It's hell.You should spend money saving for short term things and enjoying life but you should also strike up a nice balance. In general, here's my guidelines and it is partially stolen from Dave Ramsey

Bare minimum
>no high interest debt
>if your company has a 401k match, you need to be hitting that, no excuse
>save up 6 months of expenses in your bank

From there, it depends on how much you're making. If you can max out a roth IRA (you can withdraw your contributions always) and still have some fun money left over to play with in crypto, stocks, etc, you should maybe fund it a bit. Otherwise, my preference is to invest in short term investments and work on increasing my income. Tax advantaged accounts are great, but this goes back to my core principle of "finding a balance between retirement and living your life." Investing to do something like buy a house or whatever is a good idea.

Don't fall for a bunch of doomer faggots, especially when the topic of society comes up you get flooded with /pmg/ doomers whose only explanation as to why gold and silver aren't mooning is muh comex manipulation and society is about to collapse in two more weeks.

[Anonymous No.53851325]

>>53843862
Just kill youself, I know I would if I was such a pathetic doomer faggot

Kill yourself or enjoy life, no one cares. It's all the same to me.

[Anonymous No.53851435]

>>53843862
bitcoin was invented specifically for this

[Anonymous No.53851457]

>>53845445
>death penalty
>women in schools
>heckin democracy
Such progress

[Anonymous No.53851471]

>>53843862
Bro they're getting us ready for a new world order. We all know it's coming. Get self sufficient and stack wealth but yeah retirement is out of the question for us. Some people can't see it yet though so they'll say we're crazy. I make stock plays but I'm considering dumping my retirement account into something else or just keeping it so women will shut up about that when I'm dating

[Anonymous No.53852078]

>>53849665
>If you ask me, you should always trust your reason. You have it (lel) for a reason.
I didn't ask you.
I made a statement based on your wall of text posts.
You have still failed to refute my statement.

[Anonymous No.53852294]

>>53851471
Retirement is probably off the table, but on the other side it's never been easier to stay healthy into your 80s, just stop eating junk, drinking heavily and stay fit. Unless you have inherited genetic problems, which in many cases you can research and mitigate against. People who have found this place are intriniscally valuable and will always be in demand, even though the narrative will never acknowledge it.

[Anonymous No.53853026]

>>53843862
Investing for retirement is a long-term strategy. Consider diversifying your investments, including crypto. Short-term investments may not be the best for retirement planning. Save and invest for financial security regardless of the future. Aside from real estate and Gold, I slurp up crypto gems like AVAX, UTK, and ELGD and stake them away for passive income.

[Anonymous No.53853129]

>>53845045
>post benzo Peterson
yeah those climate videos aren’t worth shit lmao

[Anonymous No.53853209]

>>53847214
smoothbrain confirmed. we are dynamically pushing it over the edge.

[Anonymous No.53853229]

>>53843897
>I'm smart enough
so hilariously stupid and thoroughly lacking in self awareness
picrel, it's you circa 2006

[Anonymous No.53853776]

>>53843862
you'll be old
you wont care
worry about the future can ruin your present
get better at something you care about

[Anonymous No.53854301]

>>53849342
>>53849410
>>53849452

Guys like you are the reason I come to /biz/ still. Getting fewer and further between though. Either way, thanks for taking the time.

What do you see happening in the next few years with the Fed and interest rates?

[Anonymous No.53854501]

Lots of anons refuse to even engage with the question because they are fundamentally greedy and imagine that the system will always have a hefty ROI, but the fact is for the last few centuries we have had nearly unlimited energy and huge leaps in technology. boomers of course had even more advantages with most of the world recovering from WW2. The fact is though that as technology advances, it gets more complicated (and as a consequence more expensive), even if the old tech becomes cheaper to make. Cars haven't become cheaper relative to most people's income because manufacturers insist on putting a shit ton of useless electronics in the cars, for example. In America you continually need more technology to participate in the system, cars are mandatory to work on this country. There is also the fact that many traditional economic models, like women staying home in a informal economy to raise kids, has been destroyed so now you have to compete with women in the work force and also pay people to do the jobs women used to do (school, daycare, girls at Starbucks making you a morning coffee and sandwich, buying food for lunch, etc). Basically the economic model we have milks the fuck out of us and is unsustainable, it's why most people are poor.

The fact is the stock market only grew because people put money in it with the expectation that it would grow. If the population declines / boomers sell of their holdings in mass, the price will be forced to drop. There is no free lunch in this world, a real investment is something that produces value. Stocks and crypto are almost purely used for speculation and no one actually cares about them for what they are, they are trying to find somewhere safe to put their money to avoid inflation, or for 99% of crypto they are desperately trying to escape poverty by gambling on a useless shit coin that can and never will be adopted in the main stream, yes even Bitcoin. Most crypto have deep and unfixable issues.

[Anonymous No.53854556]

>>53854501
Crypto will not save you and you should learn about the technical limitations of it before putting any money in. I own crypto and it's still possible the price will shoot up a lot for many of the coins I'm just saying it is not a actual solution to the problem it's just another sphere infested with unsustainable gamblers looking to speculate.

We are in a demographic crisis that is unfixable. It simply cannot be solved with our cultural and political situation and it the elites are probably deliberately making the problems worse. We do have toxic pollutants in the environment like microplastics or other chemicals / hormones that can destroy normal human development / fertility. The population is going to shrink for every country and that means the world economy is going to have to slow down. Potentially there may be higher salaries in some fields because workers are more scarce. We live in a fundamentally irrational system, so you can't invest purely on what makes logical sense because we have entities like the fed manipulating things. If gold sky rockets, the government may confiscate it, etc. In very hard economic times you can bet the authorities aren't going to let you just cash out and walk away without a fight. There is no "safe" investment. You will have to diversify. I honestly do not know what the best thing to buy is and probably no one does we are in very chaotic times.

[Anonymous No.53854577]

>>53843862
Remember OP, always do the opposite of what biz says

[Anonymous No.53854593]

>>53854577
>>>/pol/417585142

[Anonymous No.53854609]

>>53854556
The only real solution is finding a geographically advantageous area to move to and get a large network of friends there to establish a semi autonomous community. However we live in a declining empire and the social decay is very deep. The necessary pre conditions to make true friends don't really exist anymore. The dating market is beyond fucked. Everything is working against you because the older generations betrayed you for short term gains. Community is the best investment but I honestly don't think that's possible for most people. America probably won't experience any true famines but depending on how crazy the government gets we could see nightmarish shit like CBDC or COVID 2.0. it's impossible to tell but most of the entire world is going to be far worse off.

Sorry anon I have tortured myself over this question for dozens of hours and the only thing I've come to is that I have to diversify assets / skills and try to meet like minded people, however at the end of the day your success is going to depend on factors outside of your control. I think buying land is one of the best bets. We will probably see the effects of energy and resource depletion within our lifetimes

[Anonymous No.53854646]

>>53843862

naw i want to retire and never work again

work sucks

[Anonymous No.53854876]

>>53854646
why don't you retire and make tiktoks all day.
Seems like someone like you would excel at.

[Anonymous No.53855025]

>>53846808
My favorite part is everyone is aware of this but when I mention we can literally just tear down the system and start again they all call me an extremist.

[Anonymous No.53855682]

>>53854301
That question is beyond my pay grade. I can only give you a couple of scenarios.
There's the view that the Fed will cause a "credit event", i.e. a 2008-like dollar shortage, but much worse this time. People are looking at Credit Suisse especially there. Cue banks collapsing and assets deflating in USD-terms because most "dollars" are unbacked/semi-backed bank credit, like the MBS were in 2008: when a few started defaulting, people got scared and suddenly, no one wanted to take them, thus they were worth 0, and Lehman went bankrupt within a day. The Fed's swap lines would make sense as preparation for that: if you'rw a "friend" (lackey) of the US, you get some dollars, and if you're not, you don't and default. Jeff Snyder takes this view.
Then there's the possibility that the dollar will skyrocket in value, but that other currencies will inflate wildly: the Eurozone can't raise rates because the EU would break up over, say, Italy or Greece defaulting. Italy's bond yield is 6%, Germany's is 1% (not exact numbers). If the ECB raises rates, the difference gets even larger and before Italy defaults, it abandons the Euro. Since that's politically untenable, they won't raise rates appreciably. That's partly Luke Gromen's view.
Then there's the possibility that countries hostile to the US will default AND try to attack the dollar by only selling their commodities in something else, like gold. Ghana has already started doing that, Russia is a plausible candidate with oil. This is also in line with Luke Gromen's view.
Then there's the "standard" view: the Fed will let inflation run hot by keeping rates high, but below real inflation, so you get negative real yields on bonds. The US inflates its debt down and investors get fucked, but they'll come back 1-2 decades later anyway, like after the 1940s.
It might be a combination of all of the above: the US rugs everyone, half the world quits the dollar after defaulting, Russia denominates oil in gold, attacking NYMEX.

[Anonymous No.53855750]

>>53855682
In the combination of all of these, you'd get NYMEX/LME declaring force majeure and cash-settling everyone. If you get cash-settled for dollars, you at least get something, but even dollar-inflation is rampant. In "friendly" countries, it is much worse, but they'll at least keep afloat, getting 90% of their wealth "confiscated" by the US. Non-US oil only gets sold in gold or even Bitcoin. The US likely keeps its "allies" functioning on some level via shale oil and LNG exports. Asset prices collapse as people sell anything and everything to get dollars, and then, depending on what the asset is, they'll skyrocket again. The Fed might cut rates once the crisis gets very bad, but it'll be far too late to avert 1929 2. The SPY collapses, and then maybe the Fed even buys it, BOJ-style. Anyone holding US bonds gets nearly wiped, like in 1940-1970.
Then you have "details" like CDBCs: insofar as they get those through, they will be able to keep people locked in the system while inflation steals their money.
There's also the possibility of this escalating beyond anyone's ability to control it. What I described is the scenario of everyone trying to fuck everyone as hard as possible, and this introduces extreme volatility - and the system is levered, so it doesn't tolerate volatility well. In this case, you'd get exploding black markets using gold, BTC, XMR, and whatever else amid draconian but ultimately likely ineffective government crackdowns. Economies start collapsing as international commerce becomes basically impossible. Companies can't hedge out this insane level of volatility, so commodities like metals and food don't get shipped anymore. Demographic implosion gets so bad that weaker states lose the ability to even function (Zeihan's view, in part).
All in all, likely not very fun decades.

[Anonymous No.53855811]

>>53855750
I certainly wouldn't hold Euros, much less anything not issued by non-allies of the US: yuan, rubles, Chinese stocks, Russian stocks. They'll likely just outright seize those latter ones. SPY will likely be highly problematic too due to people selling it because of mass retirement, market panic, and forced selling to satisfy dollar debt. Third World bonds are also out because of the default-risk.
Dollars tactically, but only if they're actual dollars. A dollar-account in a non-US bank (or even a US bank) is not safe by any means. US bonds are your best bet, because they're government-guaranteed, and they're a hedge against deflation due to the dollar-shortage (the Dollar Milkshake Theory from Brent Johnson).
Depending on how stable your particular locale is, you should also be ready to hold anything that they'll accept on black markets. In Lebanon, they use gold shavings as currency, for instance, when they're not busy burning down banks, as they've already been doing for months. However, you should be prepared for insane volatility there as price-discover breaks down due to market fragmentation/political instability.
Perhaps more importantly, and again depending on how stable your region is, I'd get physical necessities: food, basic medicines, water, fuel. I realize that that sounds sound prepper schizo shit, but we have the world we have.

[Anonymous No.53855860]

>>53855811
Central banks seem to be afraid of letting gold run most of all, which is why they've been buying (and that's only what they've disclosed). Silver's prospects depend on how much you buy into the silver shortage theory. Those of Bitcoin on whether you think it can survive at all, but it'll likely be much more volatile than gold. On the upside, they don't fear it (enough), so they might not try to suppress its price as much. I am not making this prediction, but it is certainly imaginable to see 6K BTCUSD again. XMR - who knows. It is preferred by criminals, which is a good sign (purely economically speaking).
Real estate is manipulated to Hell and back, and it has a significant drawback of not being transportable, which means they can levy any number of taxes, or introduce any number of confiscatory measures against it. You also have the issue of nobody having the capital of buy all those houses from the boomers. In many places, they'll likely go without a bid at all, and in places like Europe, there won't even be people to buy the houses due to demographic issues. The Millennials certainly won't have the money to buy them. Blackstone and friends might step in, and supply might also be faked: if grandma and grandpa boomer died in their apartment, but nobody puts it on the market, you won't know that there's a housing glut.
Farmland might be a good investment since it's not subject to as much speculation as housing, though still subject to trivially easy confiscation.

[Anonymous No.53855924]

>>53855860
Some more niche investments:
Gold miners are insanely risky, as many of them have exposure to China, Russia, and friends. They'll keep that gold in their countries by hook or by crook, and then you can write off that gold mine that took 5 years to set up.
Energy companies pay good dividends, but they get no investment due to ESG (thank God for ESG; joy to the world). Even if they do get investment, it takes 3-6 years to get a new extraction operation running.
Tech companies suffer from being large constituents of market cap weighted indexes like SPY, plus they depend on cheap, abundant, and educated labor, they're expensive, and many of them, like Netflix, have cashflow-issues even now, and are very recession-sensitive. They also pay no dividends, which makes them unattractive once the bull market euphoria is gone.
Small cap is full of garbage in general, and they don't have enough lobbying power to get government money.
Altcoins: 99% are dogshit.
ETH: it depends on whether you think that the "new financial system" will be built on it. It certainly seems to be the preferred bankercoin, but that needn't say much, since crypto as a whole is relatively so small.
Alternatively L1s/L2s: maybe one or two will survive, but who knows which ones.
Third World bonds: all garbage.
Commodities: I don't know enough about them, though enemies of the US will likely try to leverage their oil as much as possible, and the oil market could well deglobalize. If you're a "friend" of the US, you might get Brent, otherwise you might get $300/barrel Saudi oil.

[Anonymous No.53856021]

>>53852078
He thinks you are correct anon, thats why

[Anonymous No.53856047]

>>53855924

The first scenario involves the possibility of a "credit event" caused by the Fed, leading to banks collapsing and assets deflating in USD terms.

The second scenario suggests that the dollar may increase in value while other currencies inflate, causing the Eurozone to break up.

The third scenario involves hostile countries defaulting and attacking the dollar.

The final scenario is the "standard" view, where the Fed lets inflation run high.

[Anonymous No.53856078]

>Why save for retirement in this world?

1. Because the world is the most stable it's ever been and yes including the Russian/Ukrianian conflict

2. technology is only getting better causing a deflationary effect on luxuries

3. advances in healthcare is letting us live more vibrant healthy lives into old age

4. you save a portion of your money so you don't have to eat cat food, not drive around in Lamborghinis


5. life is what you make of it and it's not as bad as the media/social media boomers say it is

6. Inflation has been bad in the past and we've gotten past it

[Anonymous No.53856111]

>>53856078
The economy is changing due to new technology, better healthcare, and stability despite conflicts like the Russian/Ukrianian one. Luxury items are getting cheaper, and people can live longer and healthier. It's important to save money for survival, not just for fun things. The media can make the world seem worse than it is, but things are not that bad. Inflation was a problem in the past, but we have ways to deal with it now. It's important to know about these changes to make good decisions for the future.

[Anonymous No.53856292]

>>53856111
>Luxury items are getting cheaper
lol where do you live?
>people can live longer and healthier
average life expectancy is in decline for the first time in 100 years

[Anonymous No.53856339]

>>53856292
Regarding luxury items, it is true that some products have become more accessible due to advancements in technology and production processes, but luxury goods generally remain expensive and out of reach for many people. In some cases, luxury brands intentionally limit the supply of their products to maintain exclusivity and high prices.

[Anonymous No.53856785]

>>53845445
Go back, god damn you redditors disgust me

[Anonymous No.53856859]

>>53845668
Japan is a homogeneous society, comparing it with the United States is pointless.

[Anonymous No.53857117]

>>53844304
Nah lol, we genuinely are afraid of the next 30 years in this intimidating sexy babysitter kind of way. The immediate future isn't a bad investment though.
>>53844507
The cash under the bed route works but the willpower to not dip into it for unworthy costs is a hard chain to not trip over.
>>53845420
Honestly, everything has value. You can blue chip invest almost anything, there's plenty of gambling on dead ringers, and you've got us. Precious commodities and minerals, metals, fucking everything with value that appreciates over time (even old tech) will be a good pocket of investment for when you're older. A lot of homeowners refuse to appreciate this concept and let rentees tear up a property's value with little regard for the future housing market.
>>53845950
Perfect lol

[Anonymous No.53857125]

>>53855682
>>53855750
>>53855811
>>53855860
>>53855924

High Quality posts. Cheers Anon.

[Anonymous No.53857249]

>>53845445
Internet usage is probably incorrect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CompuServe

[Anonymous No.53857595]

I just started buying vanguard funds because I was introduced to them by my uncle, going by this thread is this actually a bad idea? If mass selloff of index funds is going to happen but at the same time we have high inflation where can I park my money?

[Anonymous No.53857737]

>>53855924
>Forgets that SWIFT/WEF/Banks are all in on tokenizing assets and a certain cube that will enable it all

kys for the psyop

[Anonymous No.53857783]

>>53843862
no. the only sensible option is to go all in on making it with asymmetric bets before your 50s so you can actually attempt freedom as a relstively healthy and phsyically capable man.
all the "people" telling you otherwise have never operated at peak performance so they think playing it 'safe' for the chance to while away their 60s - 80s as walking corpses is a worthy trade for the opportunity to make it big.
you can ALWAYS neck if things don't work out

[Anonymous No.53857867]

>>53848339
It will come as a surprise to you that retirement accounts offer more than just the tax advantage. There's also federal and state protections on retirement accounts against creditors and bankruptcies. I don't know about you, but I wouldn't want to work my entire life only to lose it all because of a single lawsuit or bankruptcy proceeding. Anyone with an ounce of risk management in their skull would know the importance of safeguarding their assets one way or another.

[Anonymous No.53857930]

>NOTHING EVER HAPPENS
YOU WILL LIVE IN A STATE OF ANXIETY
YOU WILL STRESS ABOUT MATTERS BEYOND YOUR CONTROL
YOU WILL NOT PLAN FOR YOUR FUTURE
AND YOU WILL NOT BE HAPPY

[Anonymous No.53857956]

>>53857595
The real secret is that no one knows where to park their money and they are all taking educated guesses.

The breakdown is this
>Dollars
The dollar may go up in relation to other currencies (or rather america won't collapse as quickly as other places will) but your savings will get eaten by *likely* higher and higher inflation rates. It's good to have some cash for buying things quickly but not a good place to keep your wealth
>Precious metals
Heavily manipulated, history of confiscation, limited supply and there is a strong case for PMs becoming popular again in a currency collapse / CBDC / resource scarcity situation. Easier to transport and transact anonymously with than 99% of crypto
>Crypto
Beyond Bitcoin or Ethereum I honestly don't see much of a use for any coin and even those two will not see main stream adoption. All transactions are publicly recorded and it would be easier for the government to shut down the off ramps like Coinbase or any other side most people use or track you to tax / confiscate your wealth. You can't buy a house with crypto you have to sell and if things get crazy they may target you for holding a large amount. It's also mostly speculation
>Land
Good choice but easy to confiscate and possibly very weak to environmental hazards (Ohio). Also the future of real estate is unclear, could moon, crab, or fall
>Stocks
Their history of good returns is not a guarantee they will be a good investment in 10-40 years. Lots of potential down sides.
>Owning your own business
Massive risks involved and low profit margins

I'm not the smartest guy but that's my breakdown. There is essentially no good choice.

[Anonymous No.53858019]

>>53843862
Hedge from all sides. I have 100k in my 401k that I'm no longer adding to. I ran the numbers and with compounding gains and adjusting for inflation it'll be enough for me to live in poverty if all else fails. I have 100k cash for trading. I have some crypto (as long as the Celsius jews and kike judge don't sue me for it). I own my house outright. I have a job that allows me to make high risk asymmetric bets for more goybucks which I'll then convert into hard assets and more high risk bets, rinse and repeat. Just don't fall for memes and ride or die mentality, you have to always look after yourself.

[Anonymous No.53858031]

>>53855682
>>53855811
>>53855860
>>53855924
>>53856047

Dude, you rock.

I'm in Canada. Working on a large garden plot this year, with gold (physical), guns, and ammo already stacked. Investment wise I'm half cash and half PM's/Commodities/telco's/preferred/bonds, etc.

Trying to spread around as much as possible, as I ultimately don't know what will happen. I do know that the 'system' will manipulate things as much as humanly possible in order to avoid what they know is coming. So I never count it down and out, and from here it seems that we'll just see housing stay expensive, gerry-mandered CPI to "normalize" at 3-4%, with continuing shortages in the supply chain that will also keep many dollars chasing the same amount of goods. It's hard to see any way out of this.

[Anonymous No.53859180]

bump for public interest

[Anonymous No.53859468]

>>53855682
>>53855750
>>53855811
>>53855860
>>53855924
>>53857956
I just don't see any reasonable place to store your wealth outside of crypto, precious metals and a small amount of physical cash. The only hedge I can see is buying everything you're going to need in the future now and trying to become more self sufficient, but even that is only possible to a certain degree. With everything being so digital the risk of capital controls in any of the scenarios presented becomes so high that holding stocks or bonds isn't attractive in a risk/reward sense compared to holding crypto/pms and physical cash on a multi year time frame. Also trying to pay off debt and lowering expenses, diversifying income streams and capital jurisdictions is always a good idea
>>53859180
this was relevant until 2015, no crypto built today is trying to be the next bitcoin in terms of features
>>53854609
this is also true. community is going to be a lot more important in the future, but it does not have to be limited to immediate jurisdiction, could also see the rise of new internet states within 20 years
>>53852294
also this. it has never been easier to start an online business, and it is a very attractive and meaningful activity which gives you some purpose in clown world. Also, things might take a lot longer to change than we expect, and in that case we should try to maximize the amount of time we are given in this current paradigm to make money. If youre really clever, you can create a business that will thrive even if the current financial infrastructure starts to deteriorate (or even build something which will succeed the "worse" things get - that would be a rare hedge indeed)

[Anonymous No.53859728]

>>53843897
>global order will have been turned on its head by the time I'm 65 or so.
Thats why you need to get money. People with money will always bounce back from hardship.

[Anonymous No.53859749]

>>53843897
you might feel that way, but you don't know it's true, and it may well be just a form of coping in order to avoid the long term responsibility of planning and saving for retirement. most people aren't good at this stuff anon.

While I do think there will be great social disorder in the next 50 years, what if I'm wrong and end up retiring with no assets or savings or pension, just blow my brains out? Hedging your bets is a thing for a reason, you should know this

[Anonymous No.53859994]

>>53856859
Ad hominem not an argument

[Anonymous No.53860078]

>>53844507
>>53844449

I don't get it, how it "the climate" or "the environment" supposed to "take us out"? Like, how specifically is that supposed to happen?

[Anonymous No.53860102]

>>53860078
If anything we should be really happy that things are getting back to normal climate wise. An ice age would be worse than anything else, 50% reduced global crop yields, massively increased energy needs for heating etc. For 95% of the last 500 million years the temperature has been warmer than what it is right now...

[Anonymous No.53860107]

>>53845020
>planet rendered inhospitable

How specifically? 1.5 degree warmer weather? Also, rapefugees are a political weapon by globalist jews against white people. You can just close borders and not let a single one through, if that was the obhective.

[Anonymous No.53860177]

>>53846146
>>53846003
Grow up.

[Anonymous No.53860191]

>>53846175

There will be special The Science vaccines which will be very agreed-upon by official academics, and they will save you from climate change, so it's all goos.

[Anonymous No.53860378]

>>53860078
It's be by derived effects. Flooding and extreme weather in the third-world will lead to extreme migration and refugee streams which will collapse the west. Even if there is political will to put machine gun nests on the outer borders and tell them to fuck off, there's three to four billion of them, and they have weapons too.

[Anonymous No.53860486]

>>53860378
Lol no, there might be several hundred million, disorganized, scattrred around, looking for an easy place to settle. A closed militarized border will stop them dead, and they will look elsewhere.

[Anonymous No.53860942]

>>53857956
>>Owning your own business
>Massive risks involved and low profit margins
So you're a child with no real world experience then. Have you ever formed your own original thought or do you just regurgitate whatever phrases you hear others say? I'm convinced I'm the only real person. You're all fucking language models. Fuck this gay world.

[Anonymous No.53860961]

>>53860942
Grow up.

[Anonymous No.53861201]

>>53860942
Do you own a business? What do you do? What is the profit margin? Did COVID impact that negatively in any way?

Yes a business is actually a liability in a unstable society. What if we have more lock downs? What if there are more nation wide BLM riots? What if there is another 2008 style scenario? Most businesses fail, most don't even make that much money. You also have to put a shit ton of work on. Everything has it's downsides

[Anonymous No.53861245]

>>53861201
Exactly

[Anonymous No.53862007]

>>53845445
Oh my Science! 2,555,000 heckin articlarios?

[Anonymous No.53862129]

>>53862007
OH MAI FAUCI!

[Anonymous No.53862686]

>>53843897
How convinient that your "research" has led to validate your nihilism and lack of any action towards future. Truly fortunate. No, you haven't done any other research but watching male space youtubers, read few wikipedia articles and browsed /pol/, you subhuman cuck. KYS

[Anonymous No.53862751]

>>53848068
>it's still the best time in history to live
By what metric?

[Anonymous No.53862822]

I’m in the same spot as OP, thinking if saving is even worth it. It’s not society that I’m worried about, it’s the fact that people are actively being rewarded for being irresponsible with their money and not having to pay back loans.

With cc debt going crazy, I’m sure that will be the next thing that will become politically popular to try to wipe away.

[Anonymous No.53862879]

>>53862686
Or maybe he's right.

[Anonymous No.53863152]

Grow your wealth by investing in things that will improve the world when you are older, will bring double benefits.

From green energy ETFs to your local smart new businesses, you are part of the society, you can make a difference.

[Anonymous No.53863266]

>muh climate
This faggot has literally been persuaded to not have children or plan for the future based on weather reports, which can't even reliably predict whether it will rain or not tomorrow.

[Anonymous No.53864082]

>>53863152
Kys

[Anonymous No.53864151]

>>53844456
This. Turned my life around doing that. Don't get hung up in retarded shit. Be productive. News, social media, all of that is Opium for the masses.

[Anonymous No.53864174]

>>53863152
Great idea if you want to end up broke and homeless.

[Anonymous No.53864509]

>>53844430
low iq answer
make your time in this shithole today, take your first step towards education
https://www.businessinsider.com/nassim-talebs-black-swan-thanksgiving-turkey-2014-11

[Anonymous No.53865987]

[Anonymous No.53866016]

>>53862686
Hurts but truth. In reality, losers have been saying what OP has been crying about for decades, at times when the worlds future was much less certain than it is today. Instead of blaming himself for his situation (OP is almost certainly poor, low skilled, low income, no wealth) he will pretend it’s a conscious decision based on the impending doom of this planet. Even at 30, at 40, at 50 he will still say this and never learn.

It’s the ultimate cope. Not only is OP physically weak, but mentally and emotionally weak as well.

[Anonymous No.53866268]

>>53843862
Climate change isn't real faggot. It's "man made" because the government is and will use it against us to comply.