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/biz/ - Business & Finance

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File: 986 KB, 1439x2522, ban the IRS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5340042 No.5340042 [Reply] [Original]

https://www.ethnews.com/tax-cut-bill-to-require-taxation-of-cryptocurrency-trades-in-us

http://nomadcapitalist.com/blog/
https://barterdex.supernet.org/
https://crypto-bridge.org/

>> No.5340082

>>5340042
Everyone checkout https://bitcoin.tax/

>> No.5340111

This is literally why its down

>> No.5340113

>>5340082
Everyone checkout https://localbitcoins.com/

>> No.5340135

Fuck off with this garbage. Fuck uncle sam too

>> No.5340145
File: 476 KB, 615x407, eya0krt6sjwx.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5340145

>crypto to crypto is now taxable
>paying for those taxes is now taxable if you sell crypto to pay for those taxes
>short term capital gains tax on every event, so anywhere from 10-40% per trade depending on your tax bracket

Say goodbye to your gains, neets! All hail Lord Trump!

>> No.5340154

Fucking shills out in full force

>> No.5340186

Nobody fucking vote on any fucking thing ever period unless on the Blockchain

https://horizonstate.com/

>> No.5340277
File: 39 KB, 1107x326, 1507910001968.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5340277

Fake news. Crypto-to-crypto trades are still classified as like-kind exchanges. Nothing in the bill changes that. Unless you cash out your crypto you don't have to worry about taxes, same as always.

>> No.5340328

>>5340277
False. Stop spreading lies.
This is going to fuck EVERYONE.

https://www.google.com/search?q=crypto+to+crypto+tax+republican+bill&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS690US690&oq=crypto+to+crypto+tax+republican+bill&aqs=chrome..69i57.6909j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

>> No.5340383

>>5340042
Reminder that if you ever pay a single cent of tax on crypto, you're a faggot and should kys. The whole point of this shit is to break the system. If you don't get that, get out.

>> No.5340415

>>5340145
It was always like that

>> No.5340444

>>5340042
It has literally always worked like that in the US. If you've been in this game for a while I hope you've been paying your taxes or the IRS is going to fuck you eventually.

>> No.5340449

Is there any direction on whether we're supposed to trade our cryptos FIFO? LIFO would be better for most of us. I always refill my eth stack as soon as I buy an alt and I'd like to pretend that I'm buying alts with the "new" Eth that hasn't accumulated a gain yet.

>> No.5340481

am i missing something here? has this shit actually gone through or is it 'on its way to trump's desk'?

>> No.5340510

>>5340481
On it's way to trump's desk, to which he'll put a blindfold on and sign it because he's a fucking traitor.

>> No.5340618

>While tax professionals have been waiting for further guidance from the IRS on whether digital assets like bitcoin, ethereum and litecoin qualify for such swaps, a provision in the tax bill renders the question moot because it explicitly limits 1031 exchanges to real estate.

What isn't clear to me is this: If I never cash out to fiat, then I can't possibly owe anything right?

>> No.5340629

>>5340510

Normally I'd defend Trump and call you a faggot libtard, etc.
But you know what...I'm off the Trump train. This retard is taking America out of crypto which is putting more chains on our ability to compete with other nations in this digital economy.
I could of handled a simple taxation, that even costed some more %. Sure. Whatever we can make big gains here.
But wanting 1000 pages of shit coin trades and probably drowning in taxes from simple shitty day trades. Nah man. Fuck Trump.

>> No.5340660

>>5340481
IRS has been treating it as an asset since 2014. If you held it over a year its taxed at a lower rate.
"Search Results
If an asset is held for one year or less, then sold for a gain, the short-term capital gain will be taxed at ordinary income tax rates. If an asset is held for more than one year, then sold for a gain, the long-term capital gain will be taxed at a maximum rate of 20%."
https://obliviousinvestor.com/capital-gains-and-losses-tax-short-term-and-long-term/

People tripping balls about this now are just not paying attention.

>> No.5340674

>>5340111
this and not that it's the end of the year and normal taxes?

>> No.5340691

>>5340629
Thanks for opening your mind and seeing the truth of the situation. Overcomplicating crypto and likening it to stocks = killing crypto.

>> No.5340703

>>5340629
Nothing has changed. These are the same rules you were *supposed* to be following since 2014.

>> No.5340734

I'm a neet who has never played taxes I am the citizien of one eu country but live in another I have 2 foreign bank accounts that I have used to buy crypto and now I found out that I have to pay for each trade. Fuck it I'm taking out my initial investment at a loss and put it back in my bank account. Fuck that shit

>> No.5340738

>>5340660

That was easy. Only being taxed on what you left the game with.
All your shitcoin hustles for 1% profit or less here and there cause you were bored or changed your mind. All those. Every detail of your year of trading. If you use a bot. Oh fuck.
Trump is effectively stripping Americans of being able to compete in the future of money.
What a fucking faggot with his greedy boomer fuck friends.
Soyboys you have my axe.

>> No.5340743

>>5340145
>short term capital gains tax on every event
that's on the difference between the price you got it and the price you sold it.
we can hope for unique rules sooner or later. crypto taxes will be very expensive to enforce.

>> No.5340747

>>5340618
You owe on the marginal gain for EACH trade.

>> No.5340748

Fuck well If we're getting taxed now I expect we can report any losses on our tax return schedule d

>> No.5340781

>>5340618
Yes you do but the government will most likely capitulate on this anyway

>> No.5340807

hey /pol/ fags - thanks a whole lot

>> No.5340826

>>5340747
>>5340781
Ok, that is fucked up but anyways um going forward how I can buy alts on a decentralized privacy exchange?

>> No.5340839

>>5340691
No it will kill the gambling aspect of it. There will now be rules to the game and the government is doing it for your own good.

Im tired of seeing people make massive money on the loss of others.

>> No.5340855

>>5340042
Feels good to be in Monero. It will have a LOT of buyers in 2018.

>> No.5340887
File: 11 KB, 320x140, Tuco.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5340887

>>5340738
I bought in 2014. I couldn't even remember my password when it hit 18k. I googled how it was taxed and based on that information have only bought more on the dips and not cashed out.
I'm long haul hodl.

>> No.5340901

>>5340748
Yes of course. And carry them forward

>> No.5340903

>>5340328
The chad nocoiner

The virgin cryptocuck

>> No.5340912

>>5340839
KYS
KYS
KYS
KYS
KYS

>> No.5340918

>>5340855
I'm in it too. Love the idea.

But if I buy Monero with ETH or BTC, then don't I get taxed on that too? That is how I bought all mine

>> No.5340922

oh, are they going to try enforcing FIFO

>> No.5340951

>>5340839
>There will now be rules to the game and the government is doing it for your own good.

>hurr durr protecting people from themselves
kys nigger

also
>trade shitcoin A for shitcoin B
>shitcoin B goes up 1000$ in value
>pay your taxes goyim!
>shitcoin B instantly plummets after you do taxes
>you now paid taxes on something that doesn't have the same value as before

Literally fucking retarded. Crypto is far too volatile for this.

>> No.5340957

>>5340042
I don’t see how they are going to enforce this, it would take eons

>> No.5340973

>>5340839
>im tired of seeing
Have you tried killing yourself?

>> No.5341005

>>5340807

I'm only voting Dem and picking the worst candidates that would trigger /pol/faggots from now on.
Enjoy diversity, feminists, refugees, white genocide. I'm voting to fuck this shitty country over. Are you with me /biz/ bros?
Fuck it buying IOTA for the first time.

>> No.5341083

>>5340951
What? You will only be taxed after a transaction. Its a capital gains tax. Calm down.

>> No.5341114

>>5340918
You do, but you only get one tax. You can trade your shitcoins all you want 1000 trades a day and then just convert to monero and to btc and declare the tax on only that.

Or if you have a way to sell monero directly then you don’t even have to pay any crypto-crypto tax, just say you held monero since like $5.

>> No.5341132

>>5340957
Trump is growing the IRS. There a lot of money to be made taxing crypto just like stocks and bonds.

>> No.5341148

>>5340826
https://barterdex.supernet.org/
https://crypto-bridge.org/

>> No.5341159

>>5341083
>after a transaction

THEY ARE SAYING CRYPTO TO CRYPTO IS A TRANSACTION YOU FUCK

>> No.5341190

>$500 ticket to switzerland
>thousands in taxes to support a nation that actively wants the white race destroyed
Really activates my almonds

>> No.5341250

>>5341159
Yes so this will also combat the ridiculous amount of coin types. Trading coin to coin just to buy another coin is going to end.

So goodbye gambling.

>> No.5341288

>>5341148
Thanks! what about etherdelta? Does that serve the same goal?

>> No.5341329

>>5341250
fuck you nigger die

>> No.5341384

>>5341288
yes

>> No.5341385

>>5341250
fucking N O R M I E S
why are you here? go back to /r9k/

>> No.5341403

>>5341250
I thought about writing a response but it seems like a wasted effort. Just fuck off somewhere else

>> No.5341414

>>5340113
Reported

>> No.5341470
File: 108 KB, 599x672, Screen Shot 2017-12-21 at 11.32.40 PM.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5341470

>>5341414
you should probably check this out too

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1009.4843.pdf

this literally destroys money

>> No.5341472

>>5341329
I thought the purpose of bitcoin was to replace the banks? A decentralized currency backed by massive electricity and block chain?

No it turns out Bitcoin was the money pot and the alt coins became a gamblers arena. You degenerates deserve it.

>> No.5341488

>>5341250
>what is Monero?

>> No.5341572

>>5341132
Any source on this? As far as I'm aware, the IRS has been lacking funding since like... 2012. To the point where they can't do much.

>> No.5341584

>>5341488
this. it's just gonna cause a surge in privacy coins and places that accept them

>> No.5341598

>>5341472
There has never been so much salt in one location before. Congratulations anon, you did it.

>> No.5341650

so pretty noob but what if you have bought coins but haven't exchanged for alts and are at a loss? sorry for being noob.

>> No.5341670

10-1 I bet this bill doesn't even mention crypto specifically by name and is just a generic law closing the like-kind loophole on EVERYTHING except real estate but faggot millenials think Trump is out to get them personally when I'm sure Brony toys and Pokecrap cards or whatever other gay trading market is just as much effected.

Fake news.

>> No.5341680

I saw in the taxes thread that was archived before this one that someone mentioned buying coins on Coinbase|Gemini|Etc then sending to something like Binance or an overseas exchange.

That trick might work for a short window... but the reality is that the USA will go after those exchanges just like they did banks. I have bank accounts in Japan and they're forced to report my shit to the USA/IRS, and a lot of expats have been turned away from bank accounts just due to the headache the USA causes 'em. Shit sucks.

>> No.5341681

>>5341584
this

governments aren't just afraid of losing their profits, they're afraid for their lives

myself? I'll be giving up my U.S. citizenship, live somewhere else where they're friendlier to crypto, and watch from afar as citizens of this world finally wake up one day and "snap"

>> No.5341721

>>5341250
no, it's goodbye to microtrades and microgains. profit margins need to be larger.

>> No.5341758

>>5341681
Same, brother. Adios. I'm gonna find me a beach.

>> No.5341779

>>5341721
So coins will become just like stocks. Thats fine by me.

>> No.5341784

>>5340042

If I trade X amount of crypto A that is worth Y amount of fiat for crypto B, crypto B is also worth Y amount of fiat at that moment, yes? So my capital gain for that trade is zero.

Have 2 million doge worth $11,280 the moment I trade it for .85 btc which is worth $11,280 at that moment where is the USD gain? There is none until I trade that btc for USD. Someone explain to me how my logic doesn't work.

>> No.5341802

>>5341681
Can you give up your citizenship and then buy it back later?

If not, are you still allowed to visit?

>> No.5341830

>>5341802
don't know, don't care

>> No.5341871

>>5341681
The funny part is, they'll charge you $5k to give up that citizenship...

>>5341802
Yeah, visiting isn't an issue, you'd just be examined more closely upon entering the country to ensure you're not trying to stay illegally. I've friends who've gone through it.

>> No.5341904

>Tfw finger biting about how you're ever going to calculate all of this shit
>Realize you downloaded blockfolio and record every buy
>Realize blockfolio actually logs everything and their loses

All that red never looked so beautiful. Still, fuck the GOP. Voting blue 2018 just to spit at them.

>> No.5341924

>>5341871
see>>5341470

money doesn't exist for me anymore

taxing every trade hurts my system, though

>> No.5341931

>>5341802
Better question is why would you visit a country that stifles progress? Usa will literally be brazil 2.0 once the debt can no longer afford to have 30% of working age citizens on gib me dats

>> No.5341934

>>5341784
>legend
my nigga found a loophole within the jewery

>> No.5341999

>>5341934
Thats fine but if he ever cashes out to fiat it will be taxed.

>> No.5342018

Good thing I'm moving out of this shithole of a country eventually. Gonna cash my gains in a better country.

>> No.5342026

>>5341784
I think the gain is the fact that you bought crypto A for a price less than Y. They would be taxing you for the "gains" that you made up to the point that you traded it, even though you never technically cashed out.

>> No.5342057

>>5342018
Theres far no better country than the USA friend. The rest of the planet is overcrowded and lawless.

>> No.5342061

>>5341904
embarrassing that you think any political party is good

>> No.5342083

>>5341931
What if I want a goddamn cheeseburger or something

>> No.5342105

>>5340839
Congratulations now everyone knows you are a faggot. Probably would be best for you to take your own life now faggot.

>> No.5342121

>>5341680
This is why you buy 10000 coins tokens shares whatever of every decentralized exchange on the crypto market today and into perpetuity provided it has a working team and products behind it blocknet kyber Network token all of these make these laws completely worthless they are scared shit list because of this reason guys if you use a decentralized trust list exchange none of this matters we can buy anything with crypto Monero zencash even the back door piece of shit zcash can work this is voluntary taxation via technology that they do not fully understand Welcome To The Future we're all going to be rich in 2 years if you aren't already now

Also if this isn't the biggest fucking advertisement for privacy coins all a XMR zencash and all the like I honestly there's no fucking helping you

>> No.5342129

>>5342061
90% of this board is /pol/washed

>> No.5342170

>>5342105
Untaxed gambling wasnt going to last. Now go back to poker stars.

>> No.5342177

>>5342121
Anon I know this is 4chan and all, but like... what?

>> No.5342190
File: 20 KB, 300x250, 1513490219053.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
5342190

If you think that they are going to start going through all of your shitcoin trades you are absolutely a fucking retard. You will pay taxes when you cash out or actually use your crypto to buy something. It's really that simple.

>> No.5342211

So the rule is clear now. They wont enforce the coin to coin trades before Jan 01, 2018 correct?

>> No.5342220

>>5342057
Eastern europe, poland does not give a fuck about diversity is our strength

>> No.5342324

>>5342220
I would recommend New Zealand if you are seriously about leaving.

>> No.5342371

>>5342220
The problem with Poland is that it's full of polish people.

Just ask the polish, they'll happily tell you that. They are backstabbing bastards by nature.

>> No.5342384

>>5342324
Just stay away from Auckland

>> No.5342522

>>5342190
You can bypass all taxes by purchasing gift cards with coins as well.

>> No.5342553

>>5341132
I bet not even half of the global mcap in crypto is from the US. Let's fuck over the tax system for less than 300Billion.

>> No.5342600

>>5342057
>lawless

Why is this bad?

>> No.5342666

>>5342553
Yeah most trades are japanese. I wouldn't say the new rules fudge up taxes but its rather another way for the government to tax you.
>>5342600
I dont know man. Visit Somalia, same constitution USA has but way friendlier people.

>> No.5342706

>>5342026

So I buy 2 million doge in 2014 for $600 or whatever, and when I trade that for .85 btc tonight, I owe long term gains tax on the $11k that btc is worth, even though its just "on paper", and I didn't sell it for fiat? But if I just continue to hold the doge, no tax until a trade?

>> No.5342724

>meme coiners will fund drumfs wall
pottery

>> No.5342728

>>5342190

You'll need to provide your trades to cash out unless you want the IRS asking how $100k worth of dogecoin popped up in your bank account.

>> No.5342773

>>5342724
Hey if people want to sit around and trade buttcoins all day they need to at least pay the protectorate.

>> No.5342814

Literally no one is paying taxes on crypto, especially for this unfair shit.
Why can't we have a simple tax code saying, how much money initially invested, how much money at end of year. %of profits is taxed.

>> No.5342834

>>5342728
Because my bank accepts dogecoin. Your an retrad pls ksy

>> No.5342854

>>5342177
Speech to talk is a real bitch. It just ends up as one gigantic run-on sentence. Basically with a decentralized encrypted exchange that's completely trustless coupled with functioning privacy coins like XMR and send cash they have no way to text you that is not voluntary. Eventually what this means in a best-case scenario is voluntary taxation. Will it happen like that no not initially at least potentially not ever it for the best case scenario. But what it does mean in the short term is that if you do not want to be taxed they cannot text you. Eventually stores and Merchants will begin accepting privacy coins like Zen Monaro once this happens it's over. They're fucked and they know it they cannot combat this at best they can co-opt it. Will that co-option real in normies yes it will to some degree. But just like the internet was a decentralisation of people's access to information for all the good and bad that did. This is the decentralization of people's money in the space that created this is antique authority to the Core. And they are now in acting there will via technology and they have first-mover advantage. How powerful is first-mover advantage just look at Bitcoin. It's a completely inferior coin to almost every single coin out there yet it is worth thousands more than all of them. Anyway you can hear this from places in far better detail that I can give at 4 a.m. at night in the bathtub right before I jack off so have fun buy the dip don't be fucking stupid this text thing means nothing and they know it everyone here knows it time for me to crank one out now.

>> No.5342870

>>5342814
because republicans think that's too complicated

>> No.5342882

>>5340042
The key is NEVER sell. Ever. Never ever sell crypto. Buy and never sell. I'm serious. Your grandkids will gaze upon you as a god

>> No.5342906

>hurr durr were gonna cut da taxes
>don't change govt salaries and shift the burden to different people on higher rates instead
Fuck this. I work my ass off studying, trading, and more, and it's going to boil down to corporate gibs? At this point I'd rather pay the lower % and see my money go to Tyrone and Paco.

>> No.5342924

>>5342870
>their “special interests” think that’s too complicated
Gonna wait and see how much this dips then buy in

>> No.5342929

>>5342882
this. computerization of society is only increasing, and look up how much of the world is online. It's only growing, people will always want to do more with their computers, and if people are willing to buy into videogame proprietary currencies then why the fuck not crypto for years to come?

>> No.5342965

>>5342882
A god who was buried in a cardboard box because he couldn't afford a casket made of reclaimed pallet wood.

>> No.5343016

There is one way around all this though...

If all you fags stop cashing out and we all just use crypto as actual currency, we can essentially protest the taxman. However, as long as morons keep dipping out, the tax man is going to keep rearing his ugly head.

>> No.5343072

>>5343016
I'm not paying in BTC. I'll pay in dgb or some shit coin that has fast transactions. Also the IRS will wonder why you have a lambo when it says you had 0 dollars of taxable income on your tax reports.

>> No.5343077

Reminder that there has never been such a thing as easy money. Most of you will fail, crash and lose everything.

>> No.5343200

>>5343077

Disagree, it's totally possible to make fast and easy money, Wallstreet does it everyday. The real challenge is not blowing it trying to make more which is actually easier.

>> No.5343293

>>5343077
Which is why you only invest your disposable income. wew that was sooo hard.

>> No.5343313

>>5340738
>Trump is effectively stripping Americans of being able to compete in the future of money.
He's essentially declared war on his base, he recently pardoned a jew that skipped out on his loans and employed illegal immigrants and child labor. Rumor has it that congress is going to push through amnesty in January and after the blue wave during the midterms he'll either get impeached or cuck out so hard Obama will look good in comparison.

>> No.5343324

>>5343072
Yeah the IRS isnt stupid. Just pay the tax and smile with the profits you make.

>> No.5343341

>>5340839
>Im tired of seeing people make massive money on the loss of others.
Most of us make our money from the whales losses you dunce.

>> No.5343365

>>5343293
You're better off buying lottery tickets with that mkney. You won't win shit, but at least you'll have some paper to burn at the end of the day.

>> No.5343388

>>5342553
>>5341132
You guys realize that the IRS started as the GOP's private police agency during the civil war? They basically stole from whoever they could to fuel the war effort and weren't subject to the laws or the constitution.

>> No.5343665

>>5343365
LOL no.
>>5343388
Yeah the federal income tax is theft but people justify it to fund the military. Before the war machine took over with a small fed it was powered by tariffs not taxes without representation.

>> No.5344174

>>5343072
Then you tell them they can have their 15% share of whatever shitcoin you can pay them in. They want to collect, they can collect in dogecoin or whatever and worry about cashing out themselves. They can't be upset at you owning a lambo that you bought in Doge.

The problem with major losses is on us if we keep cashing out to fiat. Pay in crypto, tell tax man he can collect if crypto or fuck off and leave it at that. No laws broken so long as you don't actually have fiat money in hiding.

>> No.5344217

>>5343324
>just pay the tax on the gains you made, plus the trades, plus the cash out
Yeah, no. They literally can't say shit about a lambo if you can prove you don't have any fiat. They can collect in crypto, handle those taxes on a cash out themselves, or fuck off.

>> No.5344290

>>5344217
>knock knock

Its the repo man.

>> No.5344476

>>5342522
>Hi I'd like to buy this house. Do you take Walmart gift cards?

>> No.5344536

>>5344290
>implying
They'd need a warrant and rights to seize my assets. They won't have that because nothing illegal has transpired.

>> No.5344587

>>5344536
They will issue you a nice clean warrant claiming tax evasion.