/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.53394216]

Real question for Communists: how does the theory decide what to produce and how do they distribute to people? The most basic neccessities of food, water, clothing, and housing are obvious. But who gets what? And how much of it? Additionally, what about non-essential products, like arts and crafts? Phones? Electronic devices? Who gets what?

[Anonymous No.53394238]

It doesn’t work retard

[Anonymous No.53394268]

>>53394216
The old capitalist trope of "how would it work?"

[Anonymous No.53394269]

>>53394216
We are currently living under socialism. The marginal tax rate in a shitload of countries is over 45%, some at 53.3% (Canada, Europe).
This isn't capitalism.
We have a CENTRAL bank. That's called central planning.

[Anonymous No.53394286]

I know a guy who is a staunch communist. When asked who will decide who gets what, he says he will be the one. The whole pub was laughing at him. Good times.

[Anonymous No.53394298]

>>53394216
If Hunter gathers could figure out how to disperse resources among the community im sure we can figure it out
Will big money let us do that is the question

[Anonymous No.53394304]

>>53394286
We're going to have to fight communists as inflation gets worse. Should be easy since they can't produce or maintain anything and throw human beings at every problem until either or both go away.

[Anonymous No.53394305]

>>53394216
>how does the theory decide what to produce and how do they distribute to people?
The theory doesn't decide anything. That's why every attempt has failed. Capitalism is a perfect engine that automates mechanisms via the market. Comparing communism with capitalism is like comparing a bike with a plane. A joke that can't be taken seriously.

[Anonymous No.53394391]

>>53394305
>bike that kills hundreds of millions of people
>*drives behind you with 15 mph* nothing personell kid.
bikes as planes atleast work as intended.

[Anonymous No.53394413]

>>53394238
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.53394595]

>>53394269
socialism is at least somewhat functional, given your country is in a time of peace and is racially homogenous. America is cronyist, trying to be capitalist, betrayed and corrupted by awful liberal democracy.

[Anonymous No.53394622]

>>53394216
>>53394238
it only works in small groups of about 400 people or less

[Anonymous No.53394652]

>>53394298
>if it works for a tribe of hunter gatherers it will work for an industrialised metropolis

[Black Swan No.53394665]

>>53394305
>Capitalism is a perfect engine
kys nigger

[Anonymous No.53394669]

>>53394622
it won't even work with 400. Eventually they'll decide to effectively reinvent private property via mutual agreement in order to understand who gets what and how in terms of resources. It's within everyone's self interest to have private property and to engage in voluntary trade. Specialization will be reinvented again simply due to opportunity costs of each individual. Of course in a small community you'll have some amount of egalitarianism but this again boils down to mutual self-interest in forming allegiances with each other and watch for everyone's back.

This will confuse the commie

[Anonymous No.53394683]

>>53394595
America is a socialist country, aka communist country, just like the rest of them and their economies will inevitable fail "They didn't fall as fast as the USSR" Look at the fucking currency Jack off.
USD is down 99.9% against BTC since fucking 2008, you think another 100 years of this retarded fucking communist theory will work? It fucking doesn't.

Social Security, Welfare, Food Stamps. Women take 80% of government funds and shove it down their fat fucking throats while destroying the family unit, the Men have no way of changing it. A bloody revolution will come, and Crypto will emerge victorious. You're just too fucking brain dead to realize it.

[Anonymous No.53394706]

>>53394669
>This will confuse the commie
b-but... global warming...corporate america

[Anonymous No.53394725]

>>53394595
Socialism has never functioned unsubsidized.
If you have a free market you can function, regardless of what you call your system. If you have a free market *UNTIL* X, Y, or Z scenario, that is not a free market.
>>53394683
USA is heavily socialist and will likely descend into communism and as a result balkanize before free market capitalism wins again.

[Anonymous No.53394740]

>>53394665
>real capitalism has never been tried

[Anonymous No.53394759]

>>53394683
if all the mexicans were deleted, immigration heavily restricted, and foreign aid completely stopped, America would be a perfectly functional socialist country. never underestimate an inferior people's ability to squander a good system, a system is almost never at fault, communism is probably the exception with how unfairly it stomps on the exceptional and talented, but you get my point.
nicely schizo'd post as well, I'm a nazi.
>>53394725
pretty much yeah.

[Anonymous No.53394802]

>>53394759
>immigration heavily restricted,
Americans won't pick crops - We'd starve.

[Anonymous No.53394806]

>>53394759
"If america was just anglo americans like it was meant to be we could have socialism." True, but not reality dickhead, and even then it's inefficient.

[Anonymous No.53394913]

>>53394759
A lot of people aren't making the logical connection between 'massive inflationary spiral and bullshit economy collapsing' and people being pissed off and politics turning into a gameshow for a few years. It seems obvious right?
Also I actually believe that without the socialism the immigration would not be as big a problem. If you commit crime you face an armed populace and a functioning criminal justice system, if you expect handouts you will starve until you leave or die, and if you work hard you contribute and help build something better for everybody including yourself. Everybody wins if people come and work hard.
That's why all the Irish, Germans and Italians left Europe for the USA.

[Anonymous No.53394935]

>>53394806
reality is gay, you shouldn't accept it.
>>53394913
>Everybody wins if people come and work hard.
this is capitalist's wet dream but when people have no unified culture or identity and no goal to reach, mutual toil does not bring anyone together as a people. nonwhites will never become white and integrate, they will just fuck it all up, no matter the system.

[Anonymous No.53394986]

>>53394935
I would prefer latin americans with culture, religion and disdain for communism over the alternatives

[Anonymous No.53395016]

>>53394216
You clearly have never read a word of Marx. His work is wholly devoted to describing the capitalist mode of production. The term 'communism' is just a label he attaches to whatever system succeeds capitalism. He says nothing about 'communism' except that it will be stateless and classless.

[Anonymous No.53395127]

If you actually care about the history of economic thought and the contributions Marx gave you would understand you would understand he doesn't oppose Classical ideas about the market. He also says that needs, supply and demand and all of that determine what gets done and he doesn't really postulate a totalitarian government. The key discussion really is about value and certain things like private property, but his view about market forces and the role of the sate is pretty orthodox. His ideal system is still moved basically by market forces the the point is that wealth is distributed according to labor and accumulation of capital cannot happen since everything is perfectly efficient since it reacts to the need of the many. It also doesn't mean everyone gets the same nor that it cannot fuck up it just has a different idealized version of a utopia.

[Anonymous No.53395205]

>>53394622
>>53394669
this. google jonestown

[Anonymous No.53395653]

>>53394216
The difference between capitalism and communism is instead of working 8 hours a day and recieving 4 hours of pay you would recieve 8; The full value of your work. The cost of commodities would be determined by the amount of labor time required. If a widget takes one town 1 hours to produce and another town 3 hours to produce, then its value (labor time) would average to 2 hours. You would need to spend 2 hours worth of labor vouchers (which are nontransferable) to purchase this widget. Now you can begin to understand how the role of capitalists are unjustifible and comparable to a leech.
wtf i hate valheim now

[Anonymous No.53395713]

>>53395653
Capitalists drive research and development so we can get new stuff or better ways to do stuff. How would you decide what to research or develop without a profit motive?

[Anonymous No.53395715]

>>53394216
Social need. This isn’t even hard and I’m not a communist.
How do you know what capitalism demands you produce is good for you?

[Anonymous No.53395801]

>>53395715
capitalism produces many products I can choose from and markets to my niche. it also rapidly creates new markets when my demand arises. communism makes those choices for me and does not recognize what I think is valuable

[Anonymous No.53396227]

>>53394216
Jews

[Anonymous No.53396331]

>>53394216
Workers own everything so workers decide. But party members vote to make the rules. But the party also has its own police who are constantly finding traitors inside and outside the party.

Just be a good comrade and papa lenin will watch over you in your sleep tovarishka

[Anonymous No.53396756]

>>53394802
don't fall for that lefty talking point, in bongland, im factory slave, we've been continuously told that the english don't want to work for years and all through brexit years
my friend at work who was there long before me said many more english are working here now, before brexit, it was nearly all polish, now it's at least 50% english and some romanians and random nationalities all white except for one indian. but all the polish are gone from my department
the wages increased too. immigration is really shit

[Anonymous No.53396799]

>>53395653
the government decides the value of your work tranny, your daily vouchers worth 8 hours of work might be worth 3 potatoes and 2 slices of bread and a small amount of cheese of something to share with your family

[Anonymous No.53396843]

>>53394238
Simple as.

>>53394622
You're right in a way, a lot of primitive tribes could be considered communist, in the sense that they don't recognize private property as we do, and they decide collectively how to manage the tribe. As soon as the tribe gets big and developed enough, people lose the sense of community, greed takes the reigns and any asshole can hijack the system for his own profit. That's how it is.

[Anonymous No.53396924]

>>53394216
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_price, especially the parts on hedonic calculation and revealed preferences, but generally speaking it's not easy because people will lie to manipulate the system (which you find with any self-reported metric, see LIBOR).

It's a question like "how do you stop someone accumulating all the money in capitalism and then turning their society into a monarchy or communism?", where the answer is that some level of the undesirable thing is inevitable, and any gross inadequacies get fixed by government intervention. When communism was popular it wasn't clear how hard calculating prices actually was, or how easy antitrust is and how unnoticeable intergenerational wealth accumulation is, or how every communist party would become corrupt.

t. former communist and class traitor.

[Anonymous No.53396970]

the humanist propaganda is that people are mean, not inherently, but because they dont have the material condition to coom.
Once they are rich and have the easy life that humans want, all people are happy and hug each other.
of course the same humanist propaganda says that people who become rich are inherently mean, bc ''money & absolute power corrupt absolutely'' and rich people become selfish forever. It's impossible to stop being selfish alone, this is why all atheists want bureaucrats to make rich people poorer.

so you have the atheist dilemma: the atheist want to coom, they need money for this and they say money will make people happy. but once people have money they coom alone instead of making other people coom. Atheists also need a whole intellectual apparatus to feel mentally safe about their way of life.

This is because atheists and women have no morality beyond hedonism, but still have the deep desire to see themselves and being told that they are virtuous. However, hedonists know that they are subhumans, and since nobody tell atheists that they are righteous, they are addicted to self-made stories where they self insert and are righteous, ie ''because they say so'' lol.

Don't forget that atheists and women are natural born schizophrenic so they dont have any critical thinking in their lizard brain. IE they actually survive by being sex and drug addicts because they see nothing wrong with building a narrative in their little heads were they pass as righteous.

This is why also in atheism, the society is build on commentaries, by editors, journalists and the plebs, and the topics are female centered, ie about sex and crimes (and most against women).

Dont forget that historically in atheism , there is no truth, and no morality , and atheism was a propaganda pushed by revolutionaries merchants to make a society based on international commerce
atheism = hedonism+metanarrative by humanists about how christian monarchies are evil

[Anonymous No.53397025]

>>53394269
>socialims is when capital gains tax

[Anonymous No.53397049]

>>53396970
what does this have to do with anything? what you call "atheism" is the animals' rejection of two thousand years of violent oppression. of course they hate it and revert to their base instincts when they finally have an inkling of freedom from it. it has nothing to do with god or the rejection thereof, god having nothing to do with bullshit invented thousands of years ago by jewish neets to trick the animals into giving them free shit indefinitely. human history under this paradigm was an embarrassment and to snidely cast the behavior of animals defense of your gay bullshit doesn't make it anymore attractive or interesting nor less blasphemous for claiming divinity

[Anonymous No.53397051]

>>53397049
*as defense

[Anonymous No.53397074]

>>53394269
Socialism means workers own the means of production. Are you sure we are living under socialism?

[Anonymous No.53397211]

>>53396970
wtf is this talking about atheism like it's an ideology or political system? We just don't believe in god and agree on nothing else, take your meds.

[Anonymous No.53397266]

>>53395653
The difference between capitalism and communism is instead of working 8 hours a day you would work 0 hours per day because no employer will hire you if you do not bring more value to them than you cost.

[Anonymous No.53397310]

>>53395713

You goddamn retard. The fucking phone you hold in your hands runs certainly some Linux derivate (software some guy wrote in his spare time) and your idiot message is sent via the internet (a government project because no company saw it as profitable at first).

It's not that the only incentive for people to create things, is money

[Anonymous No.53397351]

Imagine drinking that generic black tea you get at Chinese restaurants, while driving your new Tesla. Suddenly, a squirrel runs in front of the Tesla and it slams on the breaks automatically. You spill your hot tea all over your new $60 jeans, then immediately get rear ended by a Ford F150. The doors auto-lock on your Tesla as the battery starts to ignite. You fight to escape, but the bulletproof windows won't break. Hot black tea is all over the car, burning your skin as you struggle to find a way out. Suddenly, the radio on your car turns on, blaring loud Chinese music. You look up and see a UFO abducting hovering above your car. A bright beam of light shines over you. You begin to dose off. It's over...

[Anonymous No.53397428]

>>53394216
Same way everything is decided under capitalism: linear optimization.

[Anonymous No.53397450]

>>53395016
Despite the image, OP said nothing about Marx.

[Anonymous No.53397487]

why would a communist ever post on /biz/?

[Anonymous No.53397691]

>>53397487
Why not? We also wanna get rich

[Anonymous No.53398051]

>>53394216
The idea behind communism as devised by Marx is that soon enough, the industry will be able to easily produce everything that people desire.
Basically, we are gonna live in a post-scarcity society. So nobody needs to decide what is produced, as it is very easy to produce more than everybody wants.
In reality, the capitalists were very good at finding out new customer needs, inventing new products and selling status symbols. So we haven't reached post-scarcity yet, thus communism is not possible yet.

[Anonymous No.53398195]

>>53398051
Marx predicted that material capitalism would end up efficient to the point that nobody could make actual profits anymore. This is happening since the entire western economy is based on money printing. After that comes the revolution.
He will be proven right in the end.

[Anonymous No.53398232]

>>53398195
I respect your opinion but I have to disagree. Western economy provides plenty of real tangible value. For example, the smartphone was a completely changed how billions of people consume media and interact with each other. And smartphone was made mainstream by Apple, a western company.

[Anonymous No.53400161]

>>53394216
>muh market
it's for valuation. it's not how things are actually distributed. concretely, things like supply chains actually determine where things are needed. abstractly, it serves capital accumulation. but it needn't.
>how will we produce anything without market value?
free association without the distorting elements of a state monopoly and a class of parasite landlords and grifters born to wealth.

[Anonymous No.53400593]

>>53394216
>But who gets what? And how much of it?
Inferior communism is, to each according to his contribution.
>how does the theory decide what to produce and how do they distribute to people?
With the modern communication network called the internet, determining the social needs would be pretty easy.

[Anonymous No.53400612]

>>53394238
this /thread

[Anonymous No.53400624]

>>53394238
No mean to state the obvious anon. We know Capitalism don't work.

[Anonymous No.53400650]

>>53394622
Revolutionary Catalonia: 2 millions.

[Anonymous No.53401199]

>>53400650
>Jul 21, 1936 – Feb 10, 1939
Didn't work out too well I guess

[Anonymous No.53401977]

>>53398232
Lel apple is mostly a sales and marketing platform. The underlying tech for smartphones - cameras, mobile email and touch screens were all invented by 1999

[Anonymous No.53402076]

>>53401199
Capitalism: 16th century - 2008.
Maintained artificially alive since 2008 with quantitative easing.

[Anonymous No.53402087]

>>53402076
Okay? That's a lot longer than 3 years.

[Anonymous No.53402346]

>>53394304
truth. but don't underestimate them. if we're not careful they'll trick non communists into enslaving everyone and you'll own nothing and die. it's true that they're general largely incompetent and poor, that's why they're communists after all. the most effective way to fight them is to use their manipulation tactics against them so that they're convinced they shall not reproduce. confort them into having no children, no family, that their situation is fine, to keep fighting for their ideas, which will not work because they don't work so they'll achieve nothing