Tax Cut Bill To Require Taxation Of Cryptocurrency Trades In US

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Tax Cut Bill To Require Taxation Of Cryptocurrency Trades In US Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:53:26 2017 No.5335257 [Reply] [Original]

It just keeps getting worse

https://www.ethnews.com/tax-cut-bill-to-require-taxation-of-cryptocurrency-trades-in-us

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:54:51 2017 No.5335296 link must be the shittiest scamcoin ive seen in a while

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:55:11 2017 No.5335306 >>5335257 >keeps getting This is why the dump happened, anon. You're a little late.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:55:57 2017 No.5335330 >>5335257 >mfw thousands of trades this year im sure the irs will have a fun time going through all my transactions just to see that i would owe the same was taxing my fiat out

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:56:51 2017 No.5335348 >>5335257 OP, you sound like a whiny little bitch. sell your $200 worth of crypto off and go back to filling out online surveys for .05 each >>5335306 i dont think this is what caused the dump but w.e

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:56:52 2017 No.5335349 >>5335330 They have software that does it nigger. How do you think they deal with daytraders?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:57:01 2017 No.5335354 >this is who /pol/ voted for Why would you vote against your own interests?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:57:02 2017 No.5335355 >>5335330 *as

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:58:51 2017 No.5335407 >>5335306 It's not why. End of year cash out followed by panic selling.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 00:58:55 2017 No.5335408

>>5335257
People are in for a rude awakening when they realize how large their tax bills are. I just calculated mine and I owed $67,000 due to crypto trading. Unfortunately, I don't have fiat to cover that so I had to cash out more crypto which inflated my tax bill to $100,000.

If I were you guys I'd start doing your taxes early before the normies do.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:00:13 2017 No.5335442 File: 41 KB, 1199x781, 1512216431322.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335354 >implying he wrote the bill

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:00:58 2017 No.5335469 >>5335408 Whatever you say mr. irs agent

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:01:25 2017 No.5335479 >>5335408 I don't even understand this bullshit. How TF can they tax on every fucking trade. It's taking money when nothing has even been gained/lost yet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:01:42 2017 No.5335486 >>5335442 >implying he's not going to sign it

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:01:49 2017 No.5335494 >>5335408 how much did you make though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:01:52 2017 No.5335495 >>5335408 >owe $10k in crypto taxes >cashout $10k crypto to pay the bill >now owe tax on the $10k I just pulled out

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:03:11 2017 No.5335535 File: 26 KB, 256x256, 1512456417142.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335486 >implying anyone else would do anything different after being shown what really happened to Kennedy

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:03:14 2017 No.5335537 >>5335354 >implying every candidate wouldn't have done this You really think any politician would look at an untapped tax source and just leave it alone?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:03:59 2017 No.5335554 >>5335408 I don't even give a fuck, I'm not paying a cent until I cash out. Let them do their worst

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:04:03 2017 No.5335560 We already pay a tax through transactions. Why does the government think we need to pay them?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:04:11 2017 No.5335563 >>5335354 >implying /pol/ is anarchist >implying that believing you shouldn't be taxed at all isn't anarchist

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:04:34 2017 No.5335573 >>5335479 I know, it sucks balls >>5335494 I made around $500,000. >>5335495 Can you imagine this happening when everyone is trying to cash out at the same time?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:04:53 2017 No.5335581 >>5335408 how's this even possible, tax is based on profit is it not? they can't take more than everything, that'd make no fucking sense....

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:06:16 2017 No.5335622 >>5335573 wait, so you only have to pay 20%? That sucks, but it's not gonna ruin me. It's not like I buy shit with my crypto anyway

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:06:30 2017 No.5335629 File: 30 KB, 237x200, REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335257 >tax bill has literally made crypto unprofitable

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:06:32 2017 No.5335633 MAGA huh? Hahah you all voted for a selfish crazy rich guy and thought the result would be different

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:06:35 2017 No.5335634 >>5335581 Nope, tax is based on capital gains/loss. Every time you trade for crypto or fiat is considered a taxable event. If you ended up losing your money, you wouldn't have to pay taxes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:07:14 2017 No.5335654 >>5335554 Sane fuck all those irs all this shit is Monopoly money anyways they are not going to tax my trades

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:07:15 2017 No.5335656 >>5335257 >ETH News Wtf kind of a source is that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:07:26 2017 No.5335661 Can someone explain this to me? I thought you weren't taxed until you actually converted your crypto to cash. Is that not the case?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:07:46 2017 No.5335669 >>5335622 That $500,000 was unrealized though. If everything crashed, I still owe the IRS $67,000. This is the same shit that happened in the dot com when tech employees exercised their options and were left holding the bags.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:09:04 2017 No.5335710 >>5335661 not anymore m8, all crypto transactions for any reason now are taxed, AS WELL AS when you convert crypto to cash. it is now officially a zero sum game, (((They))) have won.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:09:18 2017 No.5335713 >TFW all exchanges that do business in the USA like Bittrex, Gemini, or Coinbase will report all trades to the IRS like a regular broker It's the beginning of the end

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:09:20 2017 No.5335717 >>5335661 It is now, until January 1st. Honestly our pleb trades are nothing, but those big company bots that are making thousands of trades is going to be a nightmare. I expect some bill to change this next year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:09:24 2017 No.5335719 >>5335661 Nobody really knows. Further, this seems like the kind of thing to get a line-item veto.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:10:00 2017 No.5335737 File: 94 KB, 866x900, 1512802242757.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] thank u trumbf glad i votered republicen

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:10:01 2017 No.5335738 File: 6 KB, 284x177, 342352623.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >Yfw you made gains but nothing significant, so the tax man is no boogeyman

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:10:14 2017 No.5335748 >>5335710 How many of you normies used cuckbase?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:11:15 2017 No.5335772 >>5335748 i'm a filthy no coiner who was looking to jump in after the holidays, now i'm not.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:11:18 2017 No.5335774 >>5335661 That's call a like-kind exchange and the general consensus is that the IRS looks down upon it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:11:18 2017 No.5335775 >>5335737 Do you really believe Hillary would not be taxing this? She'd be taxing it MORE.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:12:32 2017 No.5335816

It has been like that in Germany for forever. You have to document every single trade here. And you have to convert the values to EUR, even if you're trading BTC for ETH. Then you're taxed on the current BTC value in EUR.

If you buy BTC for 1000€, then sell for ETH at a converted price of 2000€, you just made 1000€ 'gain' according to the law. That 1000€ is taxable. If you keep holding ETH and it drops to 0, you're fucked. Still have to pay taxes on the 1000€ 'gain'.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:13:23 2017 No.5335840 >>5335257 Decentralized exchanges and house purchases solely in crypto means go fuck yourself Uncle Sam. Hi NSA!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:13:37 2017 No.5335843 >>5335775 WHATABOUT

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:14:09 2017 No.5335861 File: 1.22 MB, 1039x581, 435763456345.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335257 i hope /pol/ memes donald trump into not signing that shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:14:27 2017 No.5335869 https://bitcoin.tax/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:15:15 2017 No.5335896 File: 945 KB, 1920x1080, 3487907654.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335738 I use cuckbase. I don't give a fuck if they give my info to the feds. If they don't auto take out my tax from my refund, then they can go shove it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:15:20 2017 No.5335897 >>5335869 This is what I used to calculate my taxes. It's pretty great

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:15:46 2017 No.5335910 >>5335775 Democrats a pro tech dumbass. Look at net nuetrality. You been played son!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:16:01 2017 No.5335913 Anything you plan on holding for a long time should be taken off the exchange, put through a tumbler, and into a hardware wallet. The feds won't know it's yours then, and you can put it back on the exchange when it's time to sell.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:16:04 2017 No.5335914 >>5335843 You're a fucking retard. Those were literally the two options presented. Yes, that's how America works for better or worse.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:16:45 2017 No.5335941 File: 96 KB, 702x615, C7sXY6DW0AEbWYk.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] B A S E D

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:17:02 2017 No.5335954 Another question, this doesn't go into effect until Jan 1 right? And is not retroactive I hope?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:17:33 2017 No.5335970 >>5335910 Republicans are pro money. Fags are always saying how repubs are rich fatcats, so why would they want to tax such easy money? If anything dems would want to tax it to pay for free college and abortions for illegal immigrants.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:17:47 2017 No.5335974 >>5335913 I wouldn't advise this. It is a known fact that the IRS pays Chainalysis to track crypto purchases.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:18:43 2017 No.5336006 >>5335913 What do we do if we already transferred it from the exchange directly to our wallet?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:19:00 2017 No.5336014 >>5335954 You need to file 8824 forms to report Like-Kind exchanges anyway.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:20:19 2017 No.5336054 File: 15 KB, 318x405, 1480966634970.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335669 Wait, so the murricans who bought in at $20k and have been daytrading themselves into a hole are going to be stuck owing more taxes than their cryptos are worth?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:20:50 2017 No.5336069 >>5335974 Bitcoin's blockchain has a fucking PUBLIC history of everything. This shit cannot be any easier to law enforcement. Public ledger was a mistake.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:20:57 2017 No.5336070 >>5336006 tumble it to a different wallet.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:21:22 2017 No.5336076 >>5336014 For every trade?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:21:47 2017 No.5336083 File: 254 KB, 720x862, Screenshot 2017-12-21 12.37.23.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5335669 that's fucking bullshittttttt. so you're essentially forced to cash out to recover uncle sams shekels?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:21:55 2017 No.5336087 >>5335713 Jokes on them my identity's not verified on Bittrex so for all they know I've just bought and held stuff I got off of Coinbase

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:22:26 2017 No.5336102
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>>5335970
"pro money"

Yea pro money to the 1% you can go fuck yourself enjoy your 800$ tax break while millionaires are making 5%

You literally cucked yourself if you voted for trump.

>tfw im never cashing out

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:23:12 2017 No.5336125

>>5335710
>all crypto transactions for any reason now are taxed

That's not true at all, it just means that gains on crypto-crypto transactions are taxed.

i.e. You buy $1000 of BTC, it goes up to $5000 and you trade it for ETH. You now owe taxes on the $4000 gain you made after exiting your BTC position. Now lets say you change your mind and immediately swap your $5000 ETH for LTC. You don't owe any taxes on this transaction because you didn't gain anything. And if for some reason your LTC tanks down to $3000 you can deduct the $2000 loss. Your final tax bill would be on the $2000 net gain you made trading crypto.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:23:27 2017 No.5336133

>>5336054
No, the people who lost money day trading won't have to pay taxes. The people who are going to get royally screwed over at the ones who are doing really well right now. Because when the tax man comes around, they might not have enough money to pay taxes if the crypto market has crashed or dipped significantly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:23:29 2017 No.5336136 >>5336054 no, gov gives you gibs up to 3k so if you have 3k to gamble with thats a safe principal

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:23:46 2017 No.5336142 >>5336102 How does taxing crypto help the 1%?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:24:05 2017 No.5336150 Will you shitheads take the political shit to pol for fuck sake I got real life questions that gotta be answered here

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:24:11 2017 No.5336152 >>5336083 Only if you're day trading and doing well

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:25:02 2017 No.5336172 >>5336125 there's a deduction cap but there's no gains cap :)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:26:26 2017 No.5336209 This is all EOY right? Like with your income taxes?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:27:03 2017 No.5336232 >>5336087 Bittrex is based in the USA so they'll 100% likely will enforce ID by next year to comply.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:27:26 2017 No.5336239 >>5336125 Finally someone that's not a retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:27:31 2017 No.5336242 This is not fun anymore. I’m going to arrange my portfolio as best as I can on dec 31st and not touch it for all 2018. Wish me luck boys.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:27:48 2017 No.5336249

>>5336125
why the fuck do they need every transaction, it'll be the same fucking thing when you get back to fiat.

what if you dont have cash to cover it, and what happens when you're selling a fraction of your ltc for other stuff and back again, does it just track in sequential order pegged to usd profits? can you have hodle stacks and trading stacks of the same coin where different entry points are months apart?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:27:48 2017 No.5336251 >>5335296 fpbp

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:28:06 2017 No.5336260 >uh oh people are making money with new technology.. >we cant have that!

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:29:24 2017 No.5336296
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>>5336142
>implying this bill doesn't directly fuck anyone that isn't in the 1%
>implying this bill isn't a horrible idea for the emerging cryptospace
>implying taxing crypto to crypto is a good idea in the first place

Taxing crypto isn't about helping the 1%, it's to keep the 99% in the 99% you fucking thick retard.

Can't go ahead and make too much money now goyim, we control the world, you cucked yourself. Dems would've left the tech untouched because they're progressive.

>but muh republican values, taxation is theft
>yfw republicans actually vote for more taxes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:29:56 2017 No.5336305 >>5336260 government 101

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:30:05 2017 No.5336310 >>5336242 are you sure it's not retroactive though? what if when the bill is released in Jan it details that this is also based upon past trades? this is what i am wondering

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:30:23 2017 No.5336318 how does this affect canada my knowledge of taxes is just about thin as my knowledge of stocks

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:31:05 2017 No.5336336 >>5336310 That's called an Ex Post Facto law and is super illegal.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:31:41 2017 No.5336356

>>5335354
>he thinks that
Burgerstani cryptofaggots passing dogecoin around now having access to the same tax code that billionaire hedge fund kike traders use is a bad thing

They're going to be treating it like any other stock. It's a "taxable event" any time your shares change form, too. Which means all of dick, fuck, and shit until you add it all up at the end. You get to write off any losses. Throwing the bulk of your gainz into a stable holding investment means you pay a lower tax rate than your gardener when you finally cash out.

This is why children that can't even figure out the 1040EZ from their Starcucks wages need to stop talking about "muh fair tax codes."

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:32:13 2017 No.5336370 >>5335330 The new rules wouldn't affect any transactions from before 2018.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:32:29 2017 No.5336381 >>5336296 >Dems would've taxed crypto into the ground to fund free college for sub-100IQ niggers and free abortions for illegal immigrants because they're progressive. ftfy

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:32:35 2017 No.5336385 >>5336310 oh goddddddd, iirc tax laws are retroactive why the fuck is this being allowed to happen I thought we elected our representatives... to represent

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:32:47 2017 No.5336389

>>5336310
From what I have read it’s just new rules that take effect Jan 1st. I’ve read a few different articles and haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere about retroactively going after crypto trades. Everywhere says you can use like kind exchange until jan1st. I haven’t cashed anything out so I’m not reporting anything in my taxes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:33:34 2017 No.5336411 >>5336318 it doesn't directly. It hurts the crypto market, but you don't have to pay the IRS.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:33:41 2017 No.5336413 >>5336381 >MUH WHATABOUTISM Nope. They would've never touched the cryptospace. It would've never passed congress. YOU LITERALLY FUCKED YOURSELF AND EVERYONE ELSE IF YOU VOTED RED

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:34:33 2017 No.5336442

>>5336336
okay thank goodness. i'm just gonna become a holder then. thanks for the response my dude. Do you think it's worth closing my exchange accounts that have trade history if i don't plan on using them anymore? or would there be any point to doing that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:34:40 2017 No.5336444 >>5335816 But it is offset by the 2000 loss, no?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:35:31 2017 No.5336460 >>5336370 can we confirm this, accountants and old rich fags have kept saying every trade was taxable in burgerland was it all a meme?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:35:50 2017 No.5336471

>>5336249
>why the fuck do they need every transaction, it'll be the same fucking thing when you get back to fiat.

It's crypto*currency* yeah? If a point in the future comes where you can use it without ever needing to xfer to fiat the government wants to make sure they get their cut.

>what if you dont have cash to cover it, and what happens when you're selling a fraction of your ltc for other stuff and back again, does it just track in sequential order pegged to usd profits? can you have hodle stacks and trading stacks of the same coin where different entry points are months apart?

Then you either cash out more crypto, or ignore it and hope the IRS doesn't assrape you. As for your other question, yes partial and conversions back follow the same principal. If you have more value than you did originally, you owe taxes. You can probably fudge the numbers a bit since the price is pretty flexible from exchange to exchange. As for the HODLing stacks, as long as you don't cash or exchange it for anything - you won't owe taxes regardless of price movement.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:36:08 2017 No.5336481 >>5335257 Can't we just sue with crypto gains?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:36:34 2017 No.5336491 >>5336460 nope that anon is wrong. most ppl filing taxes for bitcoin don't use the like-kind exemption because they know it won't hold up in an audit

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:36:39 2017 No.5336497

>>5336239

I get the premise, but its doesn't make sense. Say, you trade stock x for $10 (USD). you then invest this 10 into stock Y. you dont have to go through all the bullshit of capital gains yet because you haven't cashed out. its been stuck on an exchange.

THIS is why this shit doesn't make sense. the exchange is an intermediary until you pull your cash out. capital gains are only on money you have "in hand".

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:37:03 2017 No.5336509 >>5336442 withdraw your hodl coins from amerifag exchanges rip bittrex, we binance now

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:37:07 2017 No.5336511 >>5336442 If you're trying to hide some crypto, don't use any wallets you have previously sent to from those exchanges. I doubt closing the accounts would save you, they almost certainly keep records even after you quit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:38:16 2017 No.5336538 >>5335816 cant you just make another trade to offset the loss?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:38:19 2017 No.5336541 >>5336497 >Say, you trade stock x for $10 (USD) tax event. you now owe taxes for the $10

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:38:28 2017 No.5336549 >>5336370 IS THIS TRUE? OR DO I HAVE TO START COUNTING THE HUNDREDS OF DAY TRADES I HAVE MADE AND PAY TAXES?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:38:58 2017 No.5336557 >>5336444 Unless Germany doesn't allow you to write off capital loss, yes it would. And you can write the remaining $1000 loss off your income (Up to a maximum of $3000)

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:39:56 2017 No.5336584

>>5336549
it's a gray area. most ppl filing their taxes wouldn't risk it because it might not hold up in an audit. see https://bitcoin.tax/faq

>What about if I bought some Ethereum or Litecoin?
>Potentially another tax event. Think of it as selling Bitcoins back to cash, then buying your other coins with that. That sale might have gains, and so is treated the same way.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:40:04 2017 No.5336587 File: 20 KB, 473x473, 1513829916463.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >americucks

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:40:13 2017 No.5336593 >>5335257 So with the new tax bill coming out, I probably won't be trading anymore. What's the best long term coin to hold?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:40:36 2017 No.5336608 >>5336593 bitcoin cash

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:40:53 2017 No.5336615 >>5336593 DASH XMR QTUM ZEC

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:41:04 2017 No.5336622

Or you could just not pay the taxes, hold your cash, and force the shitty IRS to try and get your records from a dozen different third world pajeet exchanges you trade on.

Its up to them to prove you owe them money in an audit situation. Just play dumb and pay whatever low number they come up with based on what they can actually find (which is minimal).

Waste their time. Definitely waste their money. Or hodl some guns and ask them when they come for you, where crypto taxes are on the cobstitution.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:41:17 2017 No.5336626 >>5336511 i have my crypto on my ledger nano sent from exchanges. i was thinking of buying a new wallet, transfering all of my crypto to my new wallet, and just leaving it in cold storage for a few years. seems like the best thing i can do right now

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:41:42 2017 No.5336636

>>5336125

The real issue is that you owe capital gains without exiting the crypto-space. If you buy a shitcoin with your ETH and it appreciates in value, selling it for ETH will trigger a taxable event which must be reported and for which you will owe taxes for that tax year. The USD value of ETH will be your new cost basis for when you sell the ETH for USD though, I believe.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:43:08 2017 No.5336672 >>5336622 the IRS has been around centuries. do you really think you can outwit them?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:43:20 2017 No.5336675 >>5336636 Yep. Republicans voted for literal DOUBLE TAXING of crypto. FUCK YOU PIECES OF SHIT

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:43:22 2017 No.5336677 >>5336593 The thing is that most people think you weren't eligible for like-kind exchanges anyway with crypto and even if you were, you need to file the proper forms so there is no way getting around tracking all of these sales and purchases.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:43:24 2017 No.5336679

>>5336296
>Taxing crypto isn't about helping the 1%
They aren't taxing crypto, they are taxing capital gains, because commies have demanded forever that capital gains taxes be increased forever. Both Hillary and Bernie promised massive increases in capital gains taxes.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanellis/2016/01/26/clinton-and-sanders-propose-highest-capital-gains-tax-rate-in-history/#24c1f1b11127

Trump has been talking about "closing loopholes" in capital gains taxes since he first started his campaign in order to appeal to centrists who had kind of bought into the "we are the 99%" narrative.

With the rise of crpyto, normies are now realizing that their pro capital gains tax was a stupid thing to promote and that not just rich people get fucked by capital gains taxes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:43:53 2017 No.5336687 >>5336622 uh no it's not. they can literally freeze your bank accounts, steal your property, and throw you in jail until you cough up

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:44:14 2017 No.5336699 Reminder: If you make less than $38,700 annually AND you've held your coins for more than a year you can sell or trade them tax free. https://www.investopedia.com/terms/c/capital_gains_tax.asp

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:44:23 2017 No.5336704 >>5336679 >They aren't taxing crypto, Except they are when they're literally taxing UNREALIZED CRYPTO TO CRYPTO GAINS YOU FUCKING IDIOT

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:45:09 2017 No.5336724 File: 85 KB, 750x1000, raf,750x1000,075,t,fafafa-ca443f4786.u2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5336584 > If you are paid wholly in Bitcoins, say 5 BTC,

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:46:20 2017 No.5336760 >>5336636 >The USD value of ETH will be your new cost basis for when you sell the ETH for USD though, I believe. That's correct.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:46:54 2017 No.5336773 >>5336622 This is really bad advice. If you're going to be a crypto millionaire, just pay the tax and not worry about having to go to prison.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:47:12 2017 No.5336781 >>5336679 most people dont invest their money and dont actually care about the cap gains tax

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:47:14 2017 No.5336783 >>5336699 great, except for the fucking word AND

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:47:42 2017 No.5336788 >>5336672 yea but what if my coins were held in a cold wallet on the moon how would they know

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:48:01 2017 No.5336792

>>5336413
Democrats love regulation. They want everything to be regulated. What makes you think they won't want to regulate crypto?

Democrats don't give a fuck about the poor. Obamacare is a tax on the poor. If Hillary had become president, she would continue this program.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:48:21 2017 No.5336799 >>5336783 the bill hasn't been introduced yet, as long as you don't trade them after the bill is introduced you will be fine according to the other anons in this thread

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:48:42 2017 No.5336808

>>5336675

Its not double taxing outright because you can carry the cost basis forward.

If you spend $100 on an exchange for 1 ETH and immediately (as in the value of ETH has not increased) buy 1 Shitcoin, you have to report the trade but you owe no capital gains as your USD value has not increased.

If you sell that Shitcoin (for LTC), because it is now worth $200 and you don't want to be a bag holder, you have to report and owe $100 capital gains (200-the cost basis of 100). You now owe taxes even though you have no USD.

The gist is that every time you trade, you calculate the present market value of the thing you receive in USD. If it is greater than your cost, you have a capital gain, if less, a loss.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:49:09 2017 No.5336824 >>5336792 how do we start a revolution

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:49:10 2017 No.5336825 >>5336687 Gold. Guns. Defensive fighting positions. Let them come. They havent in 15 years of not paying taxes. They wont now.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:49:21 2017 No.5336827 >>5335737 trump and Hillary are on the same team. trump presidency was obviously planned, he's controlled opposition

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:50:54 2017 No.5336872 >>5336760 See >>5336808 Can you clarify in this scenario how the taxation of your LTC occurs? Your cost basis for the LTC is what?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:51:29 2017 No.5336887

>>5336792
>MUH WHATABOUTISM
the literal state of republifucks
>they want everything regulated
yet here we are watching repubtards killing an emerging tech in it's tracks

yet here we are in a red world where crypto to crypto trades are now forcibly taxable events, and now when you cash out you'll be paying taxes twice.

>yfw dems would've either a) not been able to pass a tax reform or b) not have tried in the first place

>muh obamacare
>muh whataboutism

please just end your life

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:52:03 2017 No.5336894

>>5336699
What does that mean “and you’ve held them for more than a year”? Then it isn’t really a trade. Are you saying it’s tax free if you hold a coin for a year and then trade for another? By extension, if you hold that second coin for a month and trade it, then that’s taxable? Additionally, if I hold a coin for 2 years straight and it appreciates 2000%, I don’t owe taxes because it was in my possession for > 1 year?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:52:44 2017 No.5336916 >>5336808 This is retarded, how is this even fair?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:53:24 2017 No.5336941 >>5336808 >You now owe taxes even though you have no USD. And this is where you get double taxed you fucking retard. >get taxed on ETH to shitcoin to LTC trade >get taxed on pulling out the LTC to USD to pay for your taxes in the first place

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:53:25 2017 No.5336942

>>5336808
Say you buy $1000 btc.

Then you buy $1000 Ether. If you sell 1/2 your eth for btc, and the value goes up for btc as a whole, and then sell back the exact portion of btc you just bought for eth again do you now pay capital gains on all your btc? Even though you had a stack you left alone, but in with new money and then exited?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:54:21 2017 No.5336970 So this taxable event that is created when one crypto is traded for another, wouldn't I need to dig into the past USD dollar valuations for the cryptos at the time of the transaction in order to give accurate information?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:12 2017 No.5336991 >>5336970 Yes, which is why this is a giant piece of shit tax bill and republicans should go kill themselves. The world would be better off.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:14 2017 No.5336993

All you kids in this thread who don't understand taxes. This guy's said it all in one sentence. New tax plan is legit for anyone making decent money.

t. Multiple small business owner.

>>5335634
>Nope, tax is based on capital gains/loss. Every time you trade for crypto or fiat is considered a taxable event. If you ended up losing your money, you wouldn't have to pay taxes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:35 2017 No.5337002 >>5335573 $100,000 sucks but 20% of 500,000 is something that I can live with. And fuck takes.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:53 2017 No.5337008 >>5335257 Wait a minute this is fucking good news. I thought this was the case the whole time, now all our trades before January 1st were all like kind. Holy shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:54 2017 No.5337009 >>5336941 >double taxed You get taxed on two separate transactions. Furthermore, it's can be either a capital gain or capital loss. All the libtards need to fuck off back to pol because this is how we've been telling you taxes were on crypto for ages.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:55:58 2017 No.5337011 >>5336970 ding ding ding

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:56:41 2017 No.5337035 >>5335257 seems like they created a weird loophole this is theft theft is illegal what's there to worry about again?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:06 2017 No.5337042 All you neets worried about your crypto taxes... If you made less than 40k for singles, 80k for married, you don't have to pay anything for capital gains.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:17 2017 No.5337047 >>5337011 >>5336970 >>5336993 Ha, and if i made trades on a POS exchange like ED that doesn't record dates and times, I wonder what happens then. Fuck me this is gonna suck.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:21 2017 No.5337048

>>5336872
The cost basis for the LTC is whatever the price in USD is that you paid for it, in that case $200. The actual exchange rate of LTC to USD is irrelevant. All that matters is you started with $100 of Coin A and turned into $200 of Coin B. That difference is what you owe taxes on.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:27 2017 No.5337050

>>5336894

If you hold a coin for more than a year, you have a long term capital gain.

If you are in the lowest brackets, long term capital gains rates are 0.

Alternatively, of you sell the asset before holding it for a year, you pay taxes on the gain at your ordinary income tax rate rather than Long Term Capital Gains Rate (which is lower usually).

If you hold the coin for a year and then trade, the trade is still a taxable event. The only thing that changes is what rate it is taxed at (long term capital gains rate vs ordinary income).

I think the assets you sell are part of your income for that year so you can't just quit your job for a year, snag a 0% capital gains rate and cash out your $1million tax free. You must stay below that income threshhold including the cashout value. I think.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:38 2017 No.5337053 >>5336887 You aren't taxed twice. Do some research.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:57:44 2017 No.5337057 >>5337008 I realize this is heavily implied but I need some kind of accountant or legal representative to say that, not some shitty potentially misinformed journalist

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:58:06 2017 No.5337069 >>5336970 The USD valuations are created by users. The US gvt has no regulatory agency verifying those prices. Part of the reason why trying to tax crypto is presently retarded.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:58:30 2017 No.5337080 >>5337008 yeah seriously how is this bad news?!

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:58:58 2017 No.5337093 >>5337042 are you sure???

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:04 2017 No.5337096 >>5335408 Also, did you do yours based on coin->coin or total gain? And what state do you live in? I think I punched in some hypothetical profit on some random site and came up with 50% tax because of California.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:16 2017 No.5337100 >>5336887 >whataboutism You sure do like that word, don't you, cuck? If Amerilards had voted in a blue Congress and Madame Hillary your taxes would've gone up (assuming you're middle class) Retard.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:17 2017 No.5337102 >>5337053 Yet you are. If you're getting taxed on crypto to crypto and taxed on pulling out of crypto to usd to pay for the crypto to crypto trades YOU'RE GETTING DOUBLE TAXED

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:34 2017 No.5337108 File: 21 KB, 711x89, like_kind_exchanges.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337008 Wait holy shit you're right This implies crypto was like-kind before, I didn't think it applied?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:45 2017 No.5337112

you guys are over complicating it.

Just look at your profit or loss at the end of the year. Also, I am pretty sure the tax only applies AFTER you cash out to USD.

If you put 1k USD in, and it turns into 50k, as long as you don't cash it out you don't pay shit. That is how it works in stocks. If you do cash it out eventually, you pay 15% on 49k of it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 01:59:48 2017 No.5337115 That is, if you made that much apart from crypto, and say you held your crypto more than a year, your gains, no matter how much, are untaxed. Capital gains. Long term. No tax. File that. No jail. No tax. Cap this.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:00:16 2017 No.5337129 >>5337050 Thanks for the thorough response

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:00:21 2017 No.5337132

>>5336894
>Are you saying it’s tax free if you hold a coin for a year and then trade for another?

If you are making less than $38,700, yes.

>By extension, if you hold that second coin for a month and trade it, then that’s taxable?

Correct, that is short-term capital gains, and is subject to (I believe) normal income tax rates.

>Additionally, if I hold a coin for 2 years straight and it appreciates 2000%, I don’t owe taxes because it was in my possession for > 1 year?

Again, assuming you made less than $38,700 in income, yes.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:00:37 2017 No.5337140

>>5337100
>If Amerilards had voted in a blue Congress and Madame Hillary your taxes would've gone up (assuming you're middle class)
Retard.

Literally whataboutism. Thank you, retard.

WHATABOUT THIS, WHATABOUT THAT, HURR DURR LETS TALK ABOUT THINGS THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:00:41 2017 No.5337141 >>5336887 The Democrats would've done the same exact thing. You're just a mindless Leftist. You don't care because you're a welfare leech.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:01:24 2017 No.5337164 >>5337112 Maybe you should try reading the thread. That's how it used to work but it no longer applies next year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:02:10 2017 No.5337185 >>5337141 >continues to contribute to typical republican whataboutism You're all mindless drones, aren't ya?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:02:48 2017 No.5337204 >>5337115 Okay.... so what you're saying is that I need to accumulate like a motherfucker for the next 8 days....? Bullish.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:03:02 2017 No.5337211
File: 16 KB, 363x372, 1512263342517.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5336142
>How does taxing crypto help the 1%?
you stupid fuck - there is still a bill that needs to be paid (tanks/guns/missles/etc still costs Billions..). The 1% are trying to have the 99% pay the bill

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:03:23 2017 No.5337222 >>5335257 This is already the rule even with out the new tax plan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:09 2017 No.5337241 >>5337102 You're being taxed once each on two separate transactions. Don't argue w/ me kid I'm a CPA.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:10 2017 No.5337243 >>5337211 This. If you're arguing for this tax bill you literally hate money.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:16 2017 No.5337252 >>5337132 Awesome thanks

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:17 2017 No.5337254 How do I archive this thread there's a lot of info I need to know here

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:34 2017 No.5337264 This is where salt comes in

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:36 2017 No.5337268 >>5337115 Long term capital gains tax is just a reduced rate. No idea what it'll be in the new tax bill but in the current system you do have to pay capital gains even if you held over a year.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:48 2017 No.5337276 >>5337042 >40k Is that gross income, or net income.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:54 2017 No.5337279 >>5337140 You're the one complaining about how Trump's going to sign the bill, there's nothing wrong with pointing out how the other option would've fuck you up the ass no lube. Go cry on /leftypol/, loser

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:04:57 2017 No.5337281 >>5336356 Big if true

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:01 2017 No.5337286 >>5337185 Lmao, you're too retarded to even come up with a coherent argument.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:11 2017 No.5337289 >>5337115 Capital gains are still income, they're just taxed at a lower rate. Like >>5337050 said you can't just quit your job, cash out tax free and then fly off to lambo land. You'd blow out that minimum income level if you tried.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:12 2017 No.5337291 File: 145 KB, 1252x1252, Aibj88qeT.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337241 >implying being taxed once on each transaction is better than a flat capital gains tax Return your degree, please.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:22 2017 No.5337296 File: 57 KB, 1136x640, Capital gains tax.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:28 2017 No.5337303

>>5336941

Do you understand cost basis?

Let's say market prices are static when you buy the LTC. If you sold the LTC for the same price you "bought" it for (I say bought because all trades are calculated in USD even if it is a coin-to-coin trade) then you have no capital gains when you sell the LTC.

If you bought LTC for $200 worth of Shitcoin and pay the gains tax on the increase in Shitcoin, and then sold LTC for $200 there is no capital gain on your LTC sale. YOU STILL HAVE TO REPORT IT.

If LTC increases in value between your trade and you cashing out, the value increase is what you pay taxes on.

It is not double taxation it is just a paperwork nightmare to recalculate market value at the time of every trade and then carry the cost basis forward. It can also cause headaches to trigger capital gains before you cash out to USD, and also because you can lose money in the end (when you cash out) but still owe taxes on the earlier trades. But that is not the same thing as double taxation.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:48 2017 No.5337314 >>5336916 Welcome to taxes, it's always been unfair.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:05:52 2017 No.5337317

>>5336824
I have an idea! We should come up with a totally new kind of currency that doesn't require the government or banks. It would just be peer to peer exchanges for goods and services. Who's with me?

Until people see value in crypto as currency instead of value in $ you'll keep getting fucked one way or the other.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:06:27 2017 No.5337343 >>5335257 I don't really understand the problem. Apart from autistically keeping logs of your trades and handing them to your tax man what is the issue here?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:06:29 2017 No.5337346 >>5337291 why shouldn't you be taxed on each transaction? I think you should.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:06:49 2017 No.5337354 File: 82 KB, 645x729, dumb wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] WHATABOUTISM WHATABOUTISM WHATABOUTISM I LERN NEW WERD ON RED DIT WHATABOUTISM I AM VEYR SMART

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:07:05 2017 No.5337362

>>5337279
> there's nothing wrong with pointing out how the other option would've fuck you up the ass no lube

Crying about things that never happened or never will happen. This is the absolute state of republicans in 2017. Your overlord is about to take more money from you and all you can think about is democrats?
>>5337286
see above

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:07:18 2017 No.5337369 >>5337296 Its better then a tax on each transaction which is tyrannical, besides i doubt 99% of ppl on /biz/ even have that much in crypto

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:07:39 2017 No.5337382 >>5337354 >admits hes from reddit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:08:41 2017 No.5337413 File: 158 KB, 680x681, 1513655330242.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337346

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:09:18 2017 No.5337424 >>5337362 This bill changes nothing because no-one here was treating crypto as a like-kind exchange. All you want to do is screech autistically about Republicans, so go back to making bait threads on /pol/ instead of shitting up /biz/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:10:00 2017 No.5337450 >>5337346 Even though this is a bait, it's because it makes the tax system entirely more convoluted, and actually ends up taking more money from you in the long run.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:10:22 2017 No.5337459 >>5336941 No your cost basis gets reset after you make the shitcoin trade. So if it after it goes up even more you'll owe more capital gains, if it goes down you can subtract. If it stays the same you don't owe any more capital gains.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:11:02 2017 No.5337474 >>5337424 see >>5337108 then kys

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:11:26 2017 No.5337489

>>5337343
Previously you could buy crypto, then trade crypto and only pay capital gains when cashing out. If you kept your assets in crypto for 1 year then you had a lower capital gains tax. Now you can't do that. You're going to pay a flat rate on every transaction. Who the fuck wants to pay more taxes?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:11:40 2017 No.5337498

>>5337343
The government shouldn't be taxing virtual money with no stability and high volatility. Hmm people making money without giving me some of it? Better fucking stop that! This is the most Jewish shit ever, you should only be getting taxed once you cash out into fiat.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:11:41 2017 No.5337501

>>5336941
Why do you not understand crypto, nigger? Yeah, I fucking hate taxes. It's why I'm conservative. Do I agree with every Republican? No, I'd have absolutely no problem if half of the Republican congressmen were thrown in prison. But if you honestly think that blaming conservatism for MUH DUBBLE TAXASHUN (as you so eloquently describe it) is a level-headed way to see the scenario, then please, continue to invest and start paying DUBBLE TAXASHUN. I make money because of retards like you.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:12:36 2017 No.5337529 >>5337450 no it takes more from you, why would I care about that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:12:44 2017 No.5337536 >>5337474 Actually, you right I fucked up. This bill is a good thing because it means we can do like-kind exchanges for the year of 2017

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:13:32 2017 No.5337566 >>5337489 >Previously you could buy crypto, then trade crypto and only pay capital gains when cashing out. You "could", but that was still wrong.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:13:52 2017 No.5337577 >>5337536 wow a whole 9 days

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:13:56 2017 No.5337580 File: 68 KB, 645x729, retard wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] EVEYONE WHO VOTE FOR RED IZ DUMM EVEYONE WHO VOTE FOR BLU LUV MERICA W H A T A B O U T I S M

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:13:57 2017 No.5337581

>>5336916

I think it would be more fair to let you calculate the gains you made at the very end when you cash out to USD. I put $100 in, now I have $200 - I'll pay $100 in capital gains. This gets them more money though since you can have de jure REALIZED gains even though they are technically unrealized because you have not cashed out. So I can tax you before you actually know how much you'll walk away with if you want to keep playing.

This cash-out value is what people that want to do the Like-Kind were hoping for but there are numerous arguments as to why that was not a legitimate tactic EVEN before this bill came out. The IRS also issued no guidance on this question despite a letter from accountancy boards. Even if it was allowed you need to fill this form out for EVERY trade: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f8824.pdf They could still retroactively decide it isn't allowed without this new bill and you would owe back taxes and penalties, fees, etc.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:14:05 2017 No.5337584 >>5337489 so if i exchanged crypto for another crypto in the past, i will not get taxed for that? only for crypto to crypto trades after this bill gets passed?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:14:59 2017 No.5337610 >>5337580 >has nothing of value to say because he knows talking politics has nothing to do with the fact that the president he voted for is actively killing crypto trading as it's lifting off the ground

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:15:12 2017 No.5337620

>>5337577
You're a dumb motherfucker, I was fully prepared to pay taxes on every single fucking transactions this April because my account friend advised me to but Republicans now passed a bill stating that we can in fact do like-kind exchanges.

Go back to /pol/ clearly you just want to whine

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:15:26 2017 No.5337625

>>5337489
Can't you just buy BTC or w.e, send it to Binance unverified, and do your trading there?

>>5337498
>The government shouldn't be taxing virtual money with no stability and high volatility.
Fair enough.

Still though, reading iAtQ24Up's posts the situation doesn't seem TOO bad. They do seem to have implemented something without a proper understanding of what they're trying to do though.

If I made mad gains as a NEET and had no fiat to my name, would I be forced to cash out to pay taxes or thrown in jail? They quite literally can't take that money from you if its not left on exchanges and you don't have the fiat to cover it.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:16:20 2017 No.5337657

Any idea how wash-sales are going to work with Crypto? If you cash out a loss you aren't allowed to buy anything “substantially identical” for a minimum of 30 days if you still want to be able to write it off.

>mfw the IRS considers all crypto "substantially identical"

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:16:28 2017 No.5337660 >>5337498 I agree with this

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:16:37 2017 No.5337667 >>5337581 If someone could figure out a way to automate the filling they could make bank

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:16:39 2017 No.5337670

>be student
>own almost nothing
>dump absolutely everything into crypto
>convert it all to monero
>send it to a paper wallet
>create multiple copies
>put them in a couple of ziplocs and bury it somewhere
>declare bankruptcy
>"Where's all this money you put into cryptos?"
>"I lost it all in a monero transaction"
>they can't prove you still own any monero
>they don't know your address
>dig up the paper wallet
>tax evasion successful

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:17:09 2017 No.5337688 >>5337584 You still get taxed for it, you just get to defer paying it until you cash out.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:17:21 2017 No.5337700

>>5337620
>I was fully prepared to pay taxes on every single fucking transactions this April
>I'm fully prepared to pay more taxes because I hate money

Do you even understand what you're typing?

>Republicans now passed a bill stating that we can in fact do like-kind exchanges.

They did the exact opposite, you fucking inbred.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:18:24 2017 No.5337732 >>5337625 >They do seem to have implemented something without a proper understanding of what they're trying to do though. Republicans in a nutshell. >HURR DURR ME PASS BILL FUK DEMOCRUTZ

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:18:27 2017 No.5337736

>>5337102
You are carrying the cost forward though.

>>5337112
No my man.

>>5337042
Your capital gains are taxed at ordinary income rates if it was a short term gain i.e., if you held for less than a year. You have to hold it for more than a year to trigger the long term rates, which are 0 at lower brackets. See >>5337050

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:18:55 2017 No.5337751 File: 5 KB, 211x239, braindead wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] HURR DURR EVEYONE ON BIZ IZ MERICAN HURR DURR RETHUGLICANTS HATE MONEE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:19:05 2017 No.5337756 >>5337732 Yeah Democrats literally never do retarded shit.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:19:05 2017 No.5337757 How the fuck are you supposed to track every single trade you do or how does anyone fucking do that? Shit, even the IRS couldn’t do that unless they owned every exchange and knew every single wallet you had

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:19:25 2017 No.5337770 >>5337700 You lack reading comprehension you retard? Do you even have any crypto? The tax year we file for in April is 2017 Prior to this bill I thought crypto did not apply for like-kind exchange status, but now I'm going to look into it further.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:19:35 2017 No.5337777 >>5337732 It's not like any Democrat understands it as well, they would have done the same exact thing because cryptos are currently a very niche market.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:19:56 2017 No.5337790 File: 138 KB, 480x480, 1307416744648.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337688 >cashing out when japan accepts crypto

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:20:07 2017 No.5337799 >>5337688 but i thought the trades were treated as a like-kind exchange before the bill gets passed?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:20:12 2017 No.5337802 >>5337584 If all these provisions are in the tax bill there's a good chance it won't apply until Jan 1st 2018. From what I can tell Crypto-Crypto in 2017 won't be taxed but Crypto-Fiat will.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:20:25 2017 No.5337818

The "like-kind" argument was shaky to begin with.

I actually think this is ultimately a good thing because it makes clear what the law is. The like-kind thing was shaky as fuck and would likely have ended up with a lot of us getting a visit from the IRS anyways.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:20:30 2017 No.5337823 >>5337757 everything is trackable via API's. I was able to import all my trades from 2017 into bitcoin.tax

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:20:40 2017 No.5337830

>>5337777
https://cointelegraph.com/news/us-senate-moves-to-criminalize-non-disclosure-of-cryptocurrency-ownership

>The US Senate Judiciary Committee is currently tackling bill S.1241 that aims to criminalize the intentional concealment of ownership or control of a financial account. The bill also would amend the definition of ‘financial account’ and ‘financial institution’ to include digital currencies and digital exchanges, respectively. According to ranking committee member Senator Dianne Feinstein, the proposed bill is needed to modernize existing AML laws.

That's what the Democrats would have passed

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:21:20 2017 No.5337862
File: 83 KB, 799x930, 1500051365366.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5336824
It's impossible. No one has balls or a spine these days. The government is meant to protect women and minorities now since those are the ones that benefit the most from it. They take from us since we're literally the only productive ones on average, and even then a large portion of working men are cucked as well because they're afraid of being attacked for having convictions or going without sex(which most don't even have).

We need 10% of the population to wake up to what's going around since most people don't care about politics or happenings. They literally go along with what the narrative that's being pushed since they just want to live their lives. If we can wake enough men up to this we can fucking change this, but it's easier said than done. The media is controlled, academia is controlled, everything is an appeal to authority today, your thoughts are never right.

I know I just shat on the appeal to authority but I think this is different. Nassim Taleb wrote about the rule of the vocal minority, William Luther Pierce wrote about needing 10% of the population for a successful revolution(study history of revolutions and see how many people are generally involved), GLR wrote about revolution being a spectator sport. We are being boiled with the heat slowly rising higher and higher. Everything is gonna collapse, but at least you weren't a sexist racist Islamaphobic pig.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:21:43 2017 No.5337881 File: 38 KB, 645x729, crippled wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337756 >>5337777 REEEE WHATABOUTISM REEEEEE VOTE FORE HILLDAWG 2020 BLUEWAVE TIDAL WAVE YEE BOI

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:22:05 2017 No.5337899

>>5337770
Supposedly, through 2017 you could've applied for like kind exchange. That's why i'm saying you're a fucking retard and like paying more taxes. Now, in 2018 it's fucking mandatory thanks to retards that want to pass a shitty tax bill for the sake of passing a republican bill.

>>5337777
>they would have

>implying you can see the future of something that never happened

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:22:08 2017 No.5337900
File: 6 KB, 246x205, images (6).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>5337346
>>5337241

Mr. CPA, he's right. It's a double tax.

It would be a fair tax if you convert to fiat, because fiat is considered the reserve currency and is "stable" relative to crypto.

Taxing on a transaction by transaction basis shouldnt be done in crypto, because its not capital gains, because they are potentially unrealized gains.

That means that you will be taxed on ALL TRANSACTIONAL USD GAINS, *regardless* if you actually convert to fiat.

So let's say this. You're $1,000 in Shitcoin A. It pumps, you make an additional $1,000 on the pump when you trade out of it into Shitcoin B.

You are taxed $200 on that pump. Add it to your taxes.

Now, your Shitcoin B holdings total $2,000. Let's say you go on vacation for a week. The project turns out to be a scam, or there is a huge dip. Your stack falls from $2,000 to $1,000 value.

You are now $200 IN THE RED EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDNT DO ANYTHING AND SEE ANY ACTUAL GAINS!!!!

This double tax is ludicrous and quite frankly, makes it extremely dangerous to do anything, especially trade, in this market.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:22:35 2017 No.5337916 File: 7 KB, 250x199, gas.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Time to switch to Binance.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:23:02 2017 No.5337937 >>5337799 no. before the bill it was a gray area.. gray area meaning the IRS gets to decide what to do. small chance they'll let something like this slide. the bill only makes it explicitly clear that it is not allowed

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:23:02 2017 No.5337938

>>5337799
Yeah like-kind exchange means you get to DEFER the gain until you make a non-like kind exchange. Not that you don't have to pay it. This is good because a lot of us thought we'd have to liquidate some of our portfolios to pay short-term capital gains on crypto to crypto trades even though we never cashed out anything.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:23:02 2017 No.5337939 >>5337115 Specific coin, not crypto in general. So if you sell your shitcoin for BTC after the moon mission and think you can just hold the BTC for a year and then cash out, you're wrong. You owe taxes on the shitcoin to BTC trade.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:23:39 2017 No.5337967 is now a good time to buy ether at 610? even though im gonna have to wait like 10 days to even get my coins, and by then it might drop even more?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:24:08 2017 No.5337984 >>5337823 I thought that was only an optional setup Will exchanges require you to have it on? How will they enforce that?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:24:23 2017 No.5337999 >>5337900 This. Thank you. YOU'RE ALL FUCKING RETARDS

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:24:42 2017 No.5338011 holy fuck nvm whales just pumped the shit out of it lol.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:25:18 2017 No.5338030 >>5337830 that's WAYYYY worse. 1984 levels of bullshittery

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:25:29 2017 No.5338038

So i have a question for 2017 trading taxes.

Joe put in $1000 in BTC January of 2017.
He then traded that 100 times and ends up with $50,000 in different coins.

He only sends $30,000 to his bank as usd.

Joe holds $20,000 in coins value still.

So tax will be payed on $30,000

What about the $20,000 in bitcoin still held into 2018?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:25:39 2017 No.5338051 >>5337610 This isn't killing shit bozo

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:25:51 2017 No.5338059 >>5337900 That's true, but if you cash out shitcoin B, you can write off the $1000 loss and zero out the gain from shitcoin A. If you want to HODL shitcoin B, you're pretty dicked.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:26:44 2017 No.5338097 >>5338051 And yet here we are, watching bitcoin hit 11k. FUCKING KILL YOURSELF

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:26:56 2017 No.5338110

>>5337900
Right, in that case you need to take a strategic loss before January 1st and trade out of Shitcoin B so that the capital loss subtracts against your previous capital gain. This is all standard practice in stocks.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_gains_tax_in_the_United_States#Strategic_losses

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:27:05 2017 No.5338118 >>5337984 you're joking right? this is the same kind of stuff you have to do with your job. it's not the exchange's jobs to make sure you file your taxes correctly.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:27:46 2017 No.5338141 >>5338110 >right in that case you need to do a bunch of shit and exit your positions because of some convoluted bullshit that should've never existed in the first place the absolute state

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:28:23 2017 No.5338170 File: 58 KB, 645x729, destroyed wojak.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5338097 This tax bill has nothing to do with that retard

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:28:29 2017 No.5338171 >>5337900 That isn't a double tax. There's only one trade in your example and you're paying once on the $1000 gain. It would be nice if you could net against the unrealized loss but not being able to do that isn't double taxation.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:28:54 2017 No.5338186

what kind of percentage are we looking at for each individual trade?
30% ? Switch BTC to ADA at $10? Then pay 3 dollar tax just for that trade? ( + or minus exchange fees themselves ? ) then decide to go back to BTC at some point and get knocked another 30% tax?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:28:59 2017 No.5338192 >>5338038 That ends up as your starting amount and you would have to calculate the cost basis for each coin-coin trade going forward.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:29:28 2017 No.5338211 >>5335354 we should've voted for more communism and 2,000,000 inbred low IQ ugly arabs flooding into our communities. right.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:30:17 2017 No.5338243 >>5338170 Uh, wanna bet? Wanna bet that the entire market crashing isn't because of bullshit tax changes to crypto? I'd be willing to bet you 1k that the reason for this crash is due to the fear of this bill.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:30:40 2017 No.5338260 >>5338038 Joe needs to report each individual trade to be in compliance.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:30:45 2017 No.5338261 File: 63 KB, 323x312, smug jammeh pepe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >tfw sold everything at ath

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:30:51 2017 No.5338262 >>5335560 gotta fund mexican babies to replace you on your dime.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:31:40 2017 No.5338290 >>5338186 I would assume you are holding each coin for less than one year, so any gain from either cashing out or coin-coin trades would be taxed at normal income tax rates.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:31:45 2017 No.5338294 >>5338211 Funny how liberals suddenly care about fiscal issues when they start losing on their primary ones.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:31:52 2017 No.5338300 >>5335408 This is why you HODL retard You cashed out? You traded? You're supposed to fucking HODL. Buy and NEVER SELL EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:32:24 2017 No.5338317 >>5335910 >millions flooding out of Democratic California due to the socialism they all voted for

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:32:46 2017 No.5338334

>>5338171
It is a double tax.

>trade shitcoin for 1k make 1k in gains
>pay taxes on that trade
>go on vacation
>shitcoin plummets
>you still have to pay taxes on that gain even though you don't have gains anymore
>have to take out of your other positions to pay for that
>get taxed on cashing out to pay for the first trade

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:32:54 2017 No.5338344

>>5337132

Note carefully: the limit is including the gains realized with the sale. Some NEET is going to try to sell his whole stack and go up a bracket and then get hit with a > 0% long term capital gains rate.

>>5337129
No problem my man.

>>5336942
I'm not sure I understand the question. The easiest way to think about it is that the IRS is viewing each trade as sale back to USD in effect.

So you take your ETH and calculate its USD value when you buy the BTC. If the ETH is worth more than it was when you bought it, you pay taxes on that capital gain at a long term or short term rate as discussed elsewhere in the thread. The trade is taxable so you basically calculate the USD value of what you're 'selling' at the time of the trade. If the ETH did not appreciate in value, then you report the trade but you didn't make any capital gains so you owe nothing.

Now when you sell your BTC, you take that ETH value you calculated as the cost basis, back that out of the BTC price, and pay taxes on whatever THAT capital gain is.

You have to do this on every trade - you always recalculate the USD value to see if you've had a capital gain.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:34:07 2017 No.5338382

>>5338290

So say I buy $1000 of ADA using BTC from normiebase.
I hodl that even beyond 2018.
I still have to pay income tax for 2018 from the action of turning BTC to ADA in 2018 even though I never cashed anything out?

this bill is going to kill crypto

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:34:53 2017 No.5338414 If I have to pay more than 20% on taxes I'm seriously leaving this country.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:34:58 2017 No.5338418 >>5338300 > you traded? > You're supposed to fucking HODL. you really can't buy altcoins without first buying bitcoin and trading them for altcoins though. Coinbase should have every coin on there.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:35:11 2017 No.5338423

>>5335257
The IRS has already been treating it this way. It's why I didn't start day trading my bitcoin on the swings. Google searched BTC taxes and got this info:
https://bitcoin.tax/faq

I've held mine for a couple of years and have only bought in on dips since it bounced to 18.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:35:19 2017 No.5338427 >>5335560 you're right. why would they want more money?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:35:21 2017 No.5338433 you guys realize it would just be a whole lot easier just to ban the IRS, right?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:35:33 2017 No.5338442 >>5338382 Are you buying the ADA before or after Jan 1 2018?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:36:24 2017 No.5338469 That was already most people's interpretation of current law. This just solidified it. Nothing changes

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:36:28 2017 No.5338472 Fuck that. Voting blue in 2018 out of spite. Jackass.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:36:42 2017 No.5338477 >>5338442 other people in this thread are saying that is irrelevant

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:37:13 2017 No.5338494

>>5338171
Right, but I am showing the one side of the double tax. The other part is converting to the stable reserve currency (fiat)

>>5338110
>>5338171
All of the tricks stock traders do to get around the double tax (and it is a double tax because its a transactional one) is ridiculous and hampers trade.

See the problem is that you're comparing this to stocks. Stocks are slow moving. Crypto moves blazingly fast, flash rises and crashes happen all the time.

It's simply wrong to impose a transactional tax on crypto. It won't work and will cripple the market. Honestly, this is why I think we are seeing a crash right now - because of this tax bill.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:37:25 2017 No.5338505 >>5335257 >attempts to tax my extremely volatile internet monies Yeah, blow me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:37:26 2017 No.5338506 >>5338382 You only pay tax on the usd gain you made on btc between the time you bought it to the time when you traded to ada. The ada gain or loss is unrealized until you trade ada for something else, so not taxable yet.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:37:36 2017 No.5338510

>>5338442

let's just say I decided to do it in middle of 2018.
$1000 BTC turned to ADA immediately after buying from normiebase.
So that be technically hodling less than a year on BTC, so would give maximum capital gains on the transfer? apx say %30 ( i forgot the tax rate but it sounds right ) so $300 just to transfer $1000 ? even though i never cashed ADA itself out technically through all of 2018

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:37:51 2017 No.5338518

>>5337670
Only relevant post in the thread

>tumble entire portfolio through XMR
>it is now in the black void of ring signature-obfuscated cryptographic nofuckingwhere-ery
>...
>I mined it
>I forgot my private key
>numerous other excuses
You are now free to launder your freshly liberated funds however you see fit

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:39:25 2017 No.5338569 >>5338418 If you buy btc/ltc/eth on cuckbase and immediately trade it for shitcoins before the price changes you won't have a gain/loss to tax (but you still have to report the trade)

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:39:39 2017 No.5338577

>>5338334
Having to sell stocks to pay for the capital gains on other stocks isn't double taxation either though. It is shitty and not fair but it isn't double taxation.

You're not being taxes for selling your ETH for BTC, and then having to pay again when you cash out to USD on the same gain. It is just that everytime a trade occurs they sit there with their hand out saying "Did you make money this time when you calculate the USD value of the asset?".

You're absolutely right that it can fuck you when you have a positive trade you pay a capital gain on, and then a trade that goes south and now you have a capital loss. The losses can carry forward but this doesn't help you if you need the $ to pay for the gain that was categorized as a 'realized gain' even though it was unrealized in the sense that you never received USD for it. It is very shitty, we know. But it isn't double-taxation. There is more than one way to get assfucked my man.
>>5337900

"Fair" and "Double" aren't the same thing. See above.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:42:01 2017 No.5338667

Oh and isnt it funny that this bill comes out NOW RIGHT BEFORE CHRISTMAS?

THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT FOLKS

THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT FOLKS

THEY DID IT FOR THE FEDERAL RESERVE - CHRISTMAS

THEY DID IT TO REMOVE THE GOLD STANDARD

SAME DEAL ALWAYS XMAS WHEN PEOPLE ARENT PAYING ATTENTION

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:42:13 2017 No.5338676

>>5338510
Not quite. You only owe taxes if appreciation occurred prior to the trade. So if you buy ADA with BTC, you only owe taxes if the BTC went up from where you bought it. For arguments sake we'll say the trade from USD > BTC > ADA is instant. In that case you wouldn't owe any taxes.

If you put in $1000 in BTC, held for a week, and bought $1500 of ADA with it, then you'd owe tax on the $500

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:42:49 2017 No.5338692 >>5335257 >they wanted normies in on it >little did they know once the normies are in the jews will start to play their own game You're getting what you deserved.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:42:53 2017 No.5338696 >>5335349 >implying I'm not gonna print it out on ticker tape and run over it with highlighter

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:43:30 2017 No.5338720

>>5338577
It is though. Why are you calling crypto stocks? They aren't nearly the same. Can you use stocks to power a decentralized supercomputer? No.

>You're not being taxes for selling your ETH for BTC, and then having to pay again when you cash out to USD on the same gain

Yes. You. Fucking. Are.
That's literally what this bill is implying. Crypto to crypto is now ALWAYS TAXABLE. You have to cash out to PAY THOSE TAXES WHICH IN TURN IS ANOTHER TAXABLE EVENT.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:44:45 2017 No.5338774

We're not paying taxes you fucking cucks, thats the whole point of this shit, to break the system. Get fucked.
>inb4 hurr durr enjoy jail
They can't jail half the country. Tell 'em to get fucked. This is where we make our stand and take back real freedom.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:45:39 2017 No.5338804

>>5338577
>
You're not being taxes for selling your ETH for BTC, and then having to pay again when you cash out to USD on the same gain. It is just that everytime a trade occurs they sit there with their hand out saying "Did you make money this time when you calculate the USD value of the asset?".

It's both bro. You are being taxed on every single transaction that isnt in the negative. This includes selling btc to fiat.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:46:17 2017 No.5338832 >>5336687 Boot licker. Fucking kill yourself. Fuck capital gain taxes. This country originated in tax hatred.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:46:42 2017 No.5338845 >>5338774 this. the simple solution is not to pay. This is the real design behind btc

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:47:08 2017 No.5338859 >>5337096 I did mine without using the like-kind exemption. I'm in California as well. I make over $100k in my job so I'm in the 25% tax bracket. And California adds an additional 13.3% tax, which brings me up to 38.3%

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:47:16 2017 No.5338866 >>5338720 >crypto to crypto is now always taxable now it is, yes, but apparently you will also be taxed for crytpo to crypto that you have done before this bill is even passed

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:47:37 2017 No.5338880 Obviously the solution to this is to allow crypto trading within Roth IRAs

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:47:58 2017 No.5338894 >>5338866 Irrelevant. We're talking about why this is bad, it's bad because crypto isn't stocks and they're treating it as such.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:48:30 2017 No.5338921

I have yet to ever cash out of the market yet my portfolio is worth $35k (and plummeting) and I've conducted multiple crypto trades to get there.

Does this essentially mean I need to pay, in fiat, the difference in what I put in ($2k) and what I currently am worth ($35k) when I do my taxes in a couple of months? Or do I simply report those gains for future reference until I actually cash out into fiat, at which point I pay that amount, whatever it is?

Basically, do I need to cash-out now in order to just pay my taxes?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:48:47 2017 No.5338929

>>5336336
>>5336442
Ex post facto only applies to criminal and most civil. Look it up. The supreme Court actually states that many tax laws are actually, by construction, required to be ex post facto.

Maybe now people will stop coloring their ballots red.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:49:12 2017 No.5338948

>>5335257
That's fucked up.
It's not a gain or loss until you cash out to fiat or tether... The whole crypto space should be considered a single investment vehicle, a single asset.

Gains or losses never touch the cash account until you go to fiat.

You can't pay for gas or groceries with crypto just like you can't pay with twitter or google shares...

Day trading crypto is like jumping from one share to another without ever realizing profits or losses, until the very final cash out trade.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:49:43 2017 No.5338962

>>5338720
Because the tax rules are the same here. They are just seeing each transaction as a reversion to USD.

And - No. You. Fucking. Are. Not. Your cost basis carries forward. So the sale to USD is a taxable event too, YES but the only gain there is the appreciated value from the last transaction.

The easiest way to think about this is that you're paying taxes for each micro-gain at the time of the trade and then also settling at the time of USD cash out if the last thing you bought also appreciated in value.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:49:54 2017 No.5338970

>>5337670

>Have no way to do anything but buy drugs with the monero

>Eventually turn the monero into a crypto that can be turned into fiat

>Any deposits from bumfuck crypto sources over 1000 dollars or so trigger your bank to notify the IRS

>Get ass raped even worse because you thought you were clever and go to prison

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:50:11 2017 No.5338979 >>5338921 yes you have to pay taxes anytime you sell crypto or exchange it for another crypto

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:50:20 2017 No.5338983 >>5338921 Wait until we get 100% confirmation on if removing the like-like consideration is retroactive. If it's not, and if it only applies once the bill is signed, you should be gucci.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:50:30 2017 No.5338994

>>5338577
> It is just that everytime a trade occurs they sit there with their hand out saying "Did you make money this time when you calculate the USD value of the asset?".

Oh and not exactly this either. In order to track potential USD gains, they are going to want to know the value of your account and track your holdings over time against the USD price, or else they will never know if you gained or not.

Yep, thats right. You can kiss the anonymity of crypto goodbye. It's literally not compatible with crypto. The IRS and the government is retarded.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:51:10 2017 No.5339014 Can I pay my taxes in Bitcoin?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:51:36 2017 No.5339036 >>5339014 not without creating a taxable event

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:51:53 2017 No.5339054 Trump should just ban crypto like China.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:52:01 2017 No.5339057 >>5336824 Storm the white house, just like the storming of bastile

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:52:11 2017 No.5339065

LOl I just realized that the entire thing is totally fucked. In order for them to do this, they must track all of our holdings and compare them to the relative USD price in order to understand if there are gains in our trades.

You can literally kiss all the anonymity goodbye. Its big brother 3.0

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:52:23 2017 No.5339075 >>5339036 >pays taxes in crypto >gets taxed >tries to pay that tax with crypto >infinite loop of taxing occurs thanks trumpets

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:52:35 2017 No.5339078 >>5338804 COST BASIS. They are constantly checking to see if you made gains THIS time, THIS trade, but they are not re-taxing the same capital gain when you cash out because the cost was carried forward through each trade.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:53:41 2017 No.5339113 >>5335633 this

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:54:23 2017 No.5339136 >>5338994 >the IRS and the government is retarded. yet you faggots still give them your money, and you vote, and do everything else to support them. its time to grow some balls, boys.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:54:55 2017 No.5339156 >>5338994 Yup - they want to know the value of every asset every time a transaction is made. Precisely. This doesn't disprove what you quoted though?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:55:08 2017 No.5339161

>>5338921
You calculate everything as if you sold for USD in between every trade. If you went from BTC to LTC you have to calculate it as if you sold BTC for USD, realized the capital gain, then used the USD to buy LTC. This is because property trades are taxed based on "fair market value" at the time of trade. At least this is what you'd have to do after January 1st. This article implies that trades before January 1st can be treated as like-kind exchanges where you can defer paying capital gains until you make a non-like kind exchange. This is not confirmed however.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:55:18 2017 No.5339169 >>5339065 Figuring that shit out isn't the IRS's job, it's yours. If you can't produce trade records they might decide to just tax you on btc gains. Good luck if your alts lost value in satoshis.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:55:20 2017 No.5339170 WHEN IN THE FUCK IS VOTING GOING TO TAKE PLACE ON THE BLOCKCHAIN

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:55:25 2017 No.5339175 >>5338948 sorry anon, but that doesn't reflect reality. everything in cryptospace is tracked by all the exchanges. don't believe me? check out bitcoin.tax and see how much data they can import from API calls

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:56:29 2017 No.5339229 >>5339078 So wait, they aren't going to lop capital gains tax on top of your crypto to crypto trades? It's all inclusive? Or are you also getting capital gains taxed on top? Because that's what it's saying to me.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:56:32 2017 No.5339230 >>5339161 Correct, not confirmed. I am not sure I trust the articles say so on it either, but man i hope so. If that is the case no need to worry, just keep a spread sheet for the future

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:56:41 2017 No.5339235 >>5338929 Hillary and Bernie both called for raising capital gains rates....

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:57:12 2017 No.5339250

>>5335669
If everything truly crashed and you realized the loss you could deduct the capital losses from the gains, right? I don't see any way in these forms to manipulate the numbers so that you can owe more than you've profited, worst case scenario is that you have to cash out crypto to cover it, but never more than you have.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:57:35 2017 No.5339262 u fucking burgers complaining about 20% tax in aus its fucking 50%

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:57:36 2017 No.5339263 >>5339170 HST is working on this

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:57:38 2017 No.5339264 >>5335354 >A small tax on a trade is minor compared to the thousands I'll save with the new rates.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:58:25 2017 No.5339299 >>5339175 reality is what we say it is. the people are in charge, start acting like it. >>5339262 youre a cuck

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:58:37 2017 No.5339304 >>5335257 trump got on tv and said whats already been happening for years lets nigger out

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:59:52 2017 No.5339340 >>5339250 Yes but then you'd have to sell low. Capital loss deduction also tops out at $3000

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 02:59:53 2017 No.5339341

>>5339229
It all depends on your starting point for each trade.

$100 BTC, goes up, trade for $200 of ETH
>taxed on the $100

$200 of ETH, goes up, trade for $300 of LTC
>taxed on the $100

$300 of LTC goes nowhere, traded for $300 USD
>no tax

Or $300 of LTC goes up, traded for $500 USD
>taxed on the $200

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:00:12 2017 No.5339351 >>5337900 yeah but don't you also report your losses which would weigh against your gains?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:01:10 2017 No.5339389 >>5339250 you can only deduct 3000 for capital loss

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:01:47 2017 No.5339409 this thread is full of cucks and faggots, none of you ever deserved to make a dime on crypto.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:01:48 2017 No.5339410 >>5339340 That's only a cap from capital losses you can deduct from other income. You can deduct your capital losses from your capital gains all the way down to 0.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:02:37 2017 No.5339442 >>5339410 Correct

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:03:48 2017 No.5339484

>>5336760
but who determines the price of eth at any one moment?
if im trading on shitcoin exchanges that dont offer usd markets how do i know what its worth?

this is why crypto -> crypto is retarded. if they want me to pay that shit then let me pay the tax in whatever crypto i was trading.

what a retarded law.

couldnt you just say the price of eth was $1 and make them prove it wasnt?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:04:00 2017 No.5339493

>>5338929
I'll stop coloring red when Democrats call out illegal immigrants and say they're all going to be deported. And when Democrats stop raising my taxes on everything else but crypto. And when they stop trying to take my guns. And when they stop virtue signaling and having SJW opinions. And when they stop trying to push socialized healthcare. And when they stop giving my tax money to welfare drug dealers and single mothers with Tyrone kids/use it to fund the abortions of these single mothers. And a lot more.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:04:56 2017 No.5339521 >>5335554 this

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:05:20 2017 No.5339538 >>5338774 This.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:05:25 2017 No.5339543 >>5339341 So then what is the tax rate on those separate trades? Surely it'll add up to more than a flat tax.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:05:48 2017 No.5339552

I wonder if I could argue the market is tied pretty well to the price of BTC and that ultimately, it is only a cryptos price to BTC that matter, and then only pay taxes on gains based in terms of BTC, which would end up being half what I would pay if I count it in terms of USD (1 BTC/$2k when I bought in, 2 BTC/$30k now)

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:06:02 2017 No.5339558

>>5339493
Adding to this, you're delusional if you think the Democrats wouldn't increase taxes on crypto. In fact, this isn't even really an increase in taxes, this just makes them more annoying if you're a big baller, but you should be paying the same rate as usual it sounds like.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:06:58 2017 No.5339587 File: 496 KB, 500x250, 1511635956678.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337303 Have to report fucking what? Does this apply to only americans lol

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:07:02 2017 No.5339591

>>5339493
Illegal immigrants take the jobs no one wants because they're all underqualified labor slaves.

You realize these immigrants are literally slaves and good for the economy, right? Let them gain citizenship like everyone else and pay taxes like everyone else. Problem solved.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:07:55 2017 No.5339618 >>5339340 >>5339389 Only from your income tax. You deduct against ALL your capital gains. Otherwise literally nobody would day trade because the government makes ALL of the fucking profit for EVERYONE.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:08:05 2017 No.5339621 >>5339410 you can deduct more than 3000, but it carries over to the next year(s).

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:08:48 2017 No.5339643

>>5335408
The thing is, like other posters have said, this tax bill implies that cryptos were "like-kind" exchanges in 2017 and before and gives legal precedent to that argument. By cashing out you fucked yourself over. You could have deferred those gains.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:08:50 2017 No.5339647 File: 31 KB, 680x533, 1511220745900.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>5337580 Tfw when I don't live in america

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:09:36 2017 No.5339666

>>5339484
I honestly have no idea how the IRS will determine that, especially given how volatile BTC is. You could buy 0.05 BTC of Shitcoin A and have it jump up to 0.10 BTC not because the Shitcoin went up but because BTC crashed. Does that mean you'll get taxed on 0.05 BTC of capital gains? I doubt anyone at this point knows.

>>5339543
If you held the coins for less than a year it's short term capital gains, aka regular income tax. If you held them over a year it's long term capital gains, which is about half the short-term rate.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:09:51 2017 No.5339677 Can anyone say what the %tax between crypto to crypto is? Do we know?

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:10:01 2017 No.5339679

Its fucking retarded because you will be required to track every trade you make and essentially you're going to be taxed on any 20% gain.

That means every single time your port goes up and you make a trade, you will be taxed - if your port increased in USD.

A flat tax when you convert to USD would be much more efficient and wouldnt hurt the market.

This cripples the market because you could potentially lose money on unrealized gains. Its all potential usd gains until you cash out due to the VOLATILITY of crypto.

Thats why a tax like this is retarded and harms the entire market.

Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:10:40 2017 No.5339709

>>5339643
>this tax bill implies that cryptos were "like-kind" exchanges in 2017 and before and gives legal precedent to that argument
uhhh no it doesn't. this tax bill is just a clarification. it doesn't mean everything that happened before is totally ok

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:11:31 2017 No.5339743 >>5339591 Nobody wants those jobs because illegals crash wages through the floor. Deporting illegals would help low skill workers a whole lot more than bandaids like raising the minimum wage.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:12:38 2017 No.5339780 >>5339677 Capital Gains rates https://www.fool.com/retirement/2016/12/11/long-term-capital-gains-tax-rates-in-2017.aspx

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:13:00 2017 No.5339795 >>5338774 Someone should start a movement then. Literally if no one pays taxes on crypto they can't do shit about it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:13:50 2017 No.5339816 >>5339679 of course its retarded. because they want to kill crypto. they need this shit so that fiat retains a purpose (you have to cash into usd to pay the taxes).

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:14:37 2017 No.5339846 >>5339780 This is capital gains tax. Not crypto to crypto.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:16:18 2017 No.5339898 >>5339846 Gains made of Crypto to crypto would be taxed at short-term capital gains, which is the same as regular income. Assuming they are treated as securities.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:16:54 2017 No.5339912 >>5339816 It's being treated under the same rules as stocks... so we have to pretend that we're selling our crypto for fiat every time we trade because that's how boomers trade their stock. Not a plot to kill crypto, just boomers being boomers.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 22 03:17:00 2017 No.5339914 >>5339846 See >>5337050

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