/biz/ - Business & Finance

[Anonymous No.53274956]

Abolish the IRS

[Anonymous No.53274987]

Itt things that will never happen.
End the fed

[Anonymous No.53275003]

Why so many IRS threads the last month?

[Anonymous No.53275291]

>>53275003
SBF's mom and dad got laid off from stanford

[Anonymous No.53277422]

Actual IRS employee here. It's actually pretty easy to get away with underreporting crypto as long as you report at least SOME of your crypto gains instead of omitting them in their entirety.

The reason why you should report at least SOME of your crypto gains is because if you get a 6173 or 6174 letter saying that they've detected a discrepancy in the amount of crypto gains you reported on your return vs the 1099s your exchange sent to the IRS, and asking you to send an amended return or letter explaining the discrepancy, you can get Exams off your back by saying the following in your response (IN YOUR OWN WORDS):

>I reported the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date and time it was sold

The reason why you should use this specific explanation (IN YOUR WORDS) is because redacted portions of the Internal Revenue Manual currently say the following:
>If the taxpayer says they reported the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date and time it was sold, accept the taxpayer's explanation, and close the case.

What this means is that if you give that explanation, the tax examiner has no choice but to believe you, and stop looking into your crypto gains for that tax year.

Now obviously, this explanation isn't going to work if you omit your crypto gains in their entirety. Cause in that instance, it's clear you didn't make an "honest" mistake and reported the "incorrect" value. You just decided to not report it at all.

One thing to know though is that if you decide to underreport crypto gains and risk getting the letter, any refund you may be owed will be frozen until the IRS receives your response and processes it. So if you need your refund as soon as possible, I would just be honest.

[Anonymous No.53277448]

>>53275003
Check your mail.

[Anonymous No.53277463]

>>53274956
You need to be 18 to post here

[Anonymous No.53277575]

>>53274956
Abolish the jews from the face of the earth

[Anonymous No.53277630]

>>53277463
You need to have 3 digits IQ to post here.

[Anonymous No.53277640]

>>53277422
Im an anon who owes $1m+ in combined state and irs taxes. The state is likely to come for me first. My question is can the IRS move quicker than the state, or will an OIC request delay IRS collections actions for a good while (1-2 years)? Saw pic related today and it got me nervous. I have a tax accountant representing me

[Anonymous No.53277717]

>>53277640
Not saying to dodge them entirely but keep in mind that a huge part of their budget is intimidation. Shit like what you posted is made on purpose to make you feel nervous and 99% of the employees are mouthbreathing retard shitskins. I’ve seen IRS agents attempting to scare anons here and it’s fucking hilarious

[Anonymous No.53277779]

>>53277640
Definitely accept an OIC or set up some sort of payment plan as soon as possible. You are correct that an OIC delays collection actions.

For instance, if Collections has inputted a TC 971 into TXMOD to start an automatic levy program like SITLP, it'll get reversed if it's been recorded that you've reached out to set up a payment plan or OIC (but SITLP is currently halted anyway for some reason).

I'm not sure if it'll be delayed for as long as 1 to 2 years, but Collections will only come after you again if you default on your payment plan or OIC. But they'll still send you a notice first that you're in default.

Honestly, I understand that you have a huge tax bill, but usually you'd have to ignore literally every notice that the IRS has sent you to get to the point where Collections is coming after you. Just calling or writing to the IRS and promising some sort of payment eventually is enough to temporarily halt balance due notices.

[Anonymous No.53277802]

Massive government employee layoffs

[Anonymous No.53277830]

>>53277640
Also another thing: have you considered reaching out to the Taxpayer Advocate Service about your issue? Or contacting your congressman or senator about your tax issue so that they could reach out to TAS on your behalf?

Cause from what you're saying, it sounds like you're undergoing the kind of "significant financial hardship" that would warrant TAS involvement. Any case that has TAS involvement is basically untouchable by the rest of the IRS. It's literally illegal for us to make any kind of adjustment on a tax module that has TAS involvement until they've closed their case.

[Anonymous No.53277845]

>>53277422
Can I just send whatever I get out of a tax reporting thing if it's way under and be fine? I sent them 500 pages of transactions last year. This year will be less but I'll be basically reporting a fuckhuge loss on top of it all.

[Anonymous No.53277854]

lynch em

[Anonymous No.53277871]

>>53277717
>>53277779
Thanks anons. I have been advised to do the same, wait until collections and ignore notices. Its just the anticipation is killing me. Do u have any advice dealing with New York state? I am getting mail notices from them about me not having paid.I dont have enough in crypto to pay it all now but I'm confident i will be able to in the next bull cycle, but I dont want them to take my crypto. I've never submitted any tax credits in my returns to the state or irs in my life, I have a good job and am living with my parents, and being completely transparent with them so I'm just sticking my ass out and hoping for mercy at this point.
>>53277830
i havent but thanks for suggesting it, should I bring that up to my tax accountant or just look into it myself?

[Anonymous No.53277903]

>>53277779
>as soon as possible
I skimmed over this part and am confused. Isn't it advisable to wait like you said here?
>but usually you'd have to ignore literally every notice that the IRS has sent you to get to the point where Collections is coming after you.

[Anonymous No.53277940]

I fell for the "IRS is omniscient" meme. I overestimated my crypto taxes last year by about $5,000 to err on the safe side because I have no idea how to track it and all the IRS sent me a love letter saying that my self reported tax burden matched their records exactly and I was such a smart goy.

They have no idea wtf they're doing when it comes to crypto.

[Anonymous No.53277956]

>>53274956
No thanks we need them to help support society

[Anonymous No.53277984]

>>53274956
>>53274987
>>53275291
Hey, let's cool it with the antisemitism.

[Anonymous No.53278031]

>>53277422
>>53277940
>Defi
The IRS has no way of knowing what you bought and sold.

Inb4 fiat off ramps.

[Anonymous No.53278039]

>>53275003
conservatards think they have power again

[Anonymous No.53278053]

>>53277871
How in the ever living shit does any tax authority know how much crypto you have?

[Anonymous No.53278085]

>>53277845
Like I said, if you get a 6173 or 6174 letter, just say the following in your follow-up amended return or letter (IN YOUR OWN WORDS so that they aren't wondering how you are quoting a redacted portion of the IRM word for word):

>I reported the fair market value of the virtual currency as of the date and time it was sold

That's literally all you have to do. As of now, there's currently no dollar amount in the IRM for when we accept and when we don't accept that explanation. The IRM is always being updated but as of now, any tax examiner assigned to your case has literally have no choice but to take you at your word, and close your case if you give that explanation.

So really, report whatever you feel comfortable with it. Just don't omit your crypto gains or losses in their entirety. Report SOMETHING.

Also, you probably don't have to send in 500 pages of every crypto transaction. We can look up your 1099s easily on the IRMF. You just need to attach a Schedule D and form 8949 to your return. Those 500 pages are probably just destroyed by Submission Processing when they receive them. Or the tax examiner is just gonna scroll past them if they get scanned into CIS.

[Anonymous No.53278104]

>>53278031


That's what I realized but it was my first year doing taxes so I got fucked. Here's a protip: if you do the taxes yourself, you basically are highly incentivized to send them pages.

Just hire a CPA and have them do it.

I get a 30k allotment from my parents every year and this year all of it went to paying fucking taxes.

[Anonymous No.53278144]

>>53278085
Kek it was all my defi transactions. I did so fucking much

[Anonymous No.53278220]

>>53277871
>>53277903
No, do NOT ignore a notice from the IRS. NEVER IGNORE A NOTICE FROM THE IRS. Call when you a get a notice. Respond with a letter with the notice enclosed in the envelope with your letter. Give the notice to your tax attorney and have them call the private practioner line. JUST RESPOND.

Ignoring a notice is literally the most fucking retarded thing you can do when dealing with the IRS. Collections only gets involved in two instances:
1) You're ignoring balance due notices
2) You've defaulted on a payment plan or haven't accepted an OIC

Just reaching out and saying you want to set up an OIC is enough to delay collections actions. When you say you want an OIC, it gets recorded on your account and tells Collections to hold off.

[Anonymous No.53278354]

can someone explain the logic behind this. how would public services be financed without an agency that audits income?

wouldnt this further just bloat the bracket of individuals that commit tax fraud and further suffocate progress?

[Anonymous No.53278388]

>>53277871
In regards to your other questions, here's my response:

1. I don't know anything about New York State, and your average IRS employee isn't going to know anything either. We mostly don't give a shit about your state taxes. If you call with questions about your state taxes, we give you the number for your state tax agency. If you mail your federal return and enclose your state return, we don't look at it. Off the top of my head, we only give a shit about state taxes in the following instances:
>You have an unpaid federal tax balance but have a state tax refund. If your state is automatically enrolled in the SITLP (and most states are), the state tax refund automatically gets applied to your unpaid federal tax balance
>Your state asks us to apply any federal refund you have to your unpaid state tax balance
>You're married filing separate and live in a community property state

2. You could bring up TAS with your accountant. He might have a better idea if TAS will take on your case. It also doesn't hurt at all to reach out to your congressman or senator. Any phone call about a taxpayer from a congressional office or a letter on congressional letter head is given automatic TAS involvement. That will also help delay any collection cause the rest of the IRS can't touch your account until TAS closes their case

3. If you want to protect your crypto, the best way is to put it on an encrypted offline wallet. The IRS can issue levies to exchanges on your crypto, and the exchange would have to give them the dollar amount of your crypto. Coinbase for instance, is legally considered to be a bank for tax law purposes

[Anonymous No.53278405]

>>53274956
Abolish the US. We could probably split into four countries and it would work out better for everyone.

[Anonymous No.53278454]

>>53278388
checked and yeah its in cold storage. will look into tas thank you
>>53278220
fwiw im not getting notices from the irs yet, i think i confused myself. im getting notices from the state right now.

[Anonymous No.53278517]

>>53277940
You are correct. By my count, there's currently about 50 designated subject matter experts (SMEs) for crypto NATIONWIDE. Keep in mind, the total number of full-time IRS employees in Exams & Collections nationwide in 2021 was over 31,000. They've published job aids on the very basics of crypto, how to identify crypto on bank statements, and how to use open source blockchain explorers, but the average IRS employee isn't going to know shit about crypto unless they personally trade it themselves

[Anonymous No.53278520]

>>53274956
Incel nazi

[Anonymous No.53278588]

>>53278031
>>53278053
Crypto exchanges are legally considered to be financial institutions and banks for the purpose of US tax law. This means that they are legally required to report your total crypro gains and losses on a 1099 each year. And if you've been issued a notice to levy, the IRS can seize any crypto stored on an online wallet like they can issue a levy against assets stored in a bank.

If you're the subject of a full-blown audit and/or collections action, the IRS may ask for bank statements for deposits by crypto companies. They may also use proprietary blockchain explorers and open-source blockchain explorers to search for transactions. But your average IRS employee isn't going to know how to do this.

[Anonymous No.53278645]

>>53277871
>but I dont want them to take my crypto
are you stupid or pretending to be retarded.
>not your keys, not your coins

[Anonymous No.53278672]

>>53278454
Yeah like I said, we don't give a shit if you're getting notices from your state. We only give a shit if your state asks us to give them your federal tax refund so that it can be applied to your unpaid state tax balance. But tell your tax attorney immediately if you get a notice from the IRS.

>>53278144
Yeah that one greentext story about that one guy saying he sends pallets to the IRS is fake as fuck. At best, they would just get destroyed immediately. At worst, he'd get referred to the frivolous return program for filing tax forms for no other reason than to impede IRS operations.

[Anonymous No.53278739]

>>53278645
Like I said: if it's stored in an online wallet on a crypto exchange, the IRS can legally levy it. If it's stored on cold storage, they may ask you where the fuck your crypto is cause they can see your withdrawals if you're the subject of a full-blown audit. But I truly don't know if they could legally force you to turn over the encryption keys for your offline wallet. They also can't issue any levies against foreign exchanges that have no physical presence in the US.

[Anonymous No.53278772]

>>53278354
There is no logic to it. It would absolutely suffocate progress.

Neither of those things matter to a retarded libertarian though.

[Anonymous No.53278848]

>>53278104
If you file electronically, it's fine to do your taxes yourself if they're not too complicated and you're not retarded. I have SE income in addition to my wage income and I file a schedule C and SE on my own.

If you file via paper, then you should hire a CPA. Most of the time when I have to reject a taxpayer's claim, it's cause they filed a paper return and made a mistake like forgetting to sign it, not including a required form or filling out a form incorrectly, or made a math error, etc.

But you shouldn't file via paper anyway. Filing via paper is stupid boomer shit. Paper returns are always processed slower, and are scrutinized more than e-file returns because of the greater chance for mistakes.

The only time you should file a paper return is if the IRS tells you to file a paper return. Which usually only happens if you're filing an original or amended return older than 2020, or if you're the victim of identity theft.

[Anonymous No.53278987]

>>53278588
>defi
I understand you worked for the IRS, so you are probably a classic midwitt. 90 IQ government apparatchik. Who said anything about cashing out on a CEX?

[Anonymous No.53279026]

>>53278739
>But I truly don't know if they could legally force you to turn over the encryption keys for your offline wallet
If they ever try that I will wait until they arrive at my parents house and scream at the top of my lungs like a child until they suggest an alternative.
Also, does that also mean no precedent has been set yet, as in, there hasn't been a case where tax authorities had to resort to that? I'm hoping that means they work it out some other way.

[Anonymous No.53279056]

>>53278739
>Legally levy it
>Hot wallet
Oh yeah? How are they going to do that? Maybe send a letter to the CEO of seed phrases?

[Jealous No.53279101]

They would never consider mentioning that if they controlled the Senate too.

[Anonymous No.53279536]

>>53278672
So should I just go to a cpa this year and file more simple returns? Can I just hand him my losses and shit after I comb through and say "yeah this is what I got?" because I spent days on my last returns and didn't even get a number that made sense and just gave up and filed it all. Was stressful. Kind of just waiting to see what happens even though I paid the IRS like 90k in taxes kek kik

[Anonymous No.53279564]

>>53278987
I'll be honest and say I don't trade crypto. The extent of my experience with crypto is buying Bitcoin and Monero to buy a 4chan pass and donate to private torrent trackers respectively. My advice here is based on my interpretation of the IRMs that deal with crypto. If something I say doesn't make sense cause of how crypto trading works, please point that out. I'm mainly just here today cause I'm bored.

>>53279056
Yes anon. That's more or less what would happen. Legally speaking, crypto exchanges are treated the same as banks. The IRM flat out says that Coinbase is already classified as a bank. There is a whole list of contacts for the legal departments of all the major US crypto exchanges that the IRS can contact to issue enforcement actions. If a crypto exchange receives a notice to levy for you, they will seize any crypto stored on your wallet on the exchange, convert it to a dollar amount, and give the dollar amount to the IRS. They can do this to any crypto exchange with a presence in the US.

>>53279026
I don't THINK there has been a legal case yet. The IRMs define what a wallet is, and give instructions on how to issue a notice to levy to crypto exchanges, and how the crypto exchange has to convert the crypto to a dollar amount and then give that to the IRS.

In regards to whether or not the IRS will ever try to seize offline wallets, it's hard to say. Generally speaking, Collections will go to the the easier to seize assets before they go for harder to seize assets. I don't work in Collections, but if I had to guess, they would probably try to issue a wage levy, then a bank levy, and then a levy on crypto stored on a hot wallet before they try to seize an encrypted cold wallet. As to whether or not that will ever happen, I truly don't know.

If you're the same anon with the $1 million unpaid tax bill, they won't issue levies as long as you accept an OIC or don't default on a payment plan.

[Anonymous No.53279571]

>Taxation is theft

[Anonymous No.53279574]

>>53279536
What CEX do you use? Most have assistance functions.

[Anonymous No.53279612]

>>53279536
Yeah at that point, I would just go to a CPA. Especially if your tax bill is that high. If your return is giving you that much of a headache, then there's a good chance you'll mess up. A decent CPA should know what to do. When I said "simple" I meant your typical person who is either a wagie, is self-employed and files a Schedule C, and maybe has some (but not substantial) investment income.

[Anonymous No.53279619]

>>53279574
It's all dexes kek. I submitted it all too in 2021 and I'm just waiting to get fucked.

[Anonymous No.53279632]

>>53279612
Will do. Guess at worst it will simplify it down. I'm probably gonna just get railed if they ever decide to go through all those transactions anyways so maybe should just get ahead of it even though I'm still gonna have to sort out my defi shit myself. So gay.

[Anonymous No.53279634]

>>53279564
>If you're the same anon with the $1 million unpaid tax bill,
I am kek, I made those threads. I have been fucking suicidal every other day. My accountant said we're gonna go for an OIC first. Even with the 84 month term IPA I won't be able to pay the balance off (36 months maximum for NYS), so we'll just have to see what happens. I'm banking on the bulls to save me from my degen choices.

[Anonymous No.53279640]

>>53274956
Abolish the IRS

[Anonymous No.53279671]

>>53279056
Like I said, if you get a 6173 or 6174 letter, just say in your response (IN YOUR OWN WORDS) that you:
>reported the fair market value of the virtual currency at the date and time it was sold
They'll stop looking into your transactions for 2022 if you say that. The worst thing that will happen is any refund you're owed will get frozen for a while. But if you get 6173 or 6174 letters repeatedly for subsequent tax years, then they'll probably look at you more closely.

[Anonymous No.53279699]

>>53279671
Realistically how on top of this shit is the IRS even? You've mentioned it a bit but basically the IRS is after the dumb fucks who are getting five figure refunds, not paying any taxes on their obvious gains, etc right? They certainly don't have the energy to go after people who made a decent effort and paid a good amount right?

My attorney for an estate I am wrapped up in basically says it depends on if you get someone with someone to prove or someone who realizes shit isn't worth the hassle and fucks off.

[Anonymous No.53279736]

>>53279634
Accepting the OIC is definitely your best best. It sounds like your tax attorney knows what he's doing. As long as you don't default on your OIC, Collections won't come after you. And Collections will stop any pending notices to levy if they see you have an OIC pending.

In any case, don't feel suicidal anon. Your situation isn't hopeless. And if you're still worried, ask your attorney about TAS, or just write to your congressman or senator to see if they can contact about the IRS about your case.

[Anonymous No.53279806]

>>53274956

[Anonymous No.53279906]

>>53279564
>>53279671

The IRS has no way of knowing what you are doing. Do you understand that with decentralized finance you can buy and sell crypto without ever interacting with an entity with bank reporting requirements? Do you know what a seed phrase is?

[Anonymous No.53279910]

>>53279699
>Realistically how on top of this shit is the IRS even?
They're not. There's barely any mention of crypto in the IRM compared to conventional income, and one part flat-out says "virtual currency is a constantly changing topic".

I mentioned it earlier, but there's currently only about 50 dedicated subject matter experts (SMEs) on crypto in the IRS. 50 people. Nationwide. Out of a total full-time workforce of over 78,000 nationwide.

There's been job aids on the basics of crypto published internally, but your average rank-and-file employee hasn't received any training on crypto beyond reading a PowerPoint presentation.

>but basically the IRS is after the dumb fucks who are getting five figure refunds, not paying any taxes on their obvious gains, etc right? They certainly don't have the energy to go after people who made a decent effort and paid a good amount right
Correct. But that isn't just for crypto, that's for pretty much all income. As long as you are filing returns, not reporting obvious bullshit numbers, and not getting your account flagged by the Automatic Underreporter Program (AUR) year after year, you'll fly under the IRS's radar.

[Anonymous No.53279936]

>>53279736
Ive said thanks a bunch of times and nobody prolly gives a shit but i sincerely appreciate your responses. Even tho in other threads ive already talked about this shit, sometimes the stress boils over on a normal day and im suddenly blogposting about this somewhere on biz. anyway hope you have a great day anon.

[Anonymous No.53280046]

>>53279910
What makes someone at the IRS a crypto SME? I would love to see the SKA for that job.

[Anonymous No.53280049]

>>53279910
If I haven't filed taxes in over 10 years because I was unemployed and destitute but file this year because I got a job are they automatically going to look back at my financial dealings of the last few years or something like that? Like will I get flagged for deeper investigation automatically?

[Anonymous No.53280075]

>>53279906
>Do you know what a seed phrase is?
I knew that crypto has recovery phrases that effectively mean you could store your crypto on paper if you wanted to, but I didn't know it was called a "seed phrase" specifically.

I flat-out said that I don't have experience with crypto beyond buying small amounts to make a donations. And that my advice is based off my interpretation of the Internal Revenue Manual, and that I'm here today cause I was bored and decided to browse /biz/ to see what the board is like. Feel free to correct me if I something I say isn't correct based on how crypto trading works.

>Do you understand that with decentralized finance you can buy and sell crypto without ever interacting with an entity with bank reporting requirements?
Yes anon I understand now. We're more or less in agreement. As long as you aren't using an entity that has bank reporting requirements, the IRS will have no idea what you're doing.

But if you're ARE using entities with US bank reporting requirements, then yes the IRS has means to know your crypto gains and losses. And can levy any crypto stored on an exchange with bank reporting requirements.

Legit question: I do know that there is internal guides on how to use open-source blockchain explorers like blockchain.com and etherscan.io. Does that have any significance?

[Anonymous No.53280235]

>>53280046
No idea. I don't know how they got the jobs. I haven't seen any job postings on USAJOBS or internally asking for knowledge or experience with crypto. I'd say right now, the IRS is focusing more on hiring and training people to work the phone lines than than they are looking for people with knowledge of crypto.

>>53279936
Not a problem anon, everyone needs to vent sometimes. And I'm glad I was able to help you; I legit like answering people's tax questions. Just remember that your situation isn't hopeless and that it'd be foolish to kill yourself over this. I truly believe you'll be alright.

[Anonymous No.53280245]

>>53279910
You've been a good insight anon. Thanks for posting

[Anonymous No.53280289]

>>53280075
There are all sorts of games you can play using fiat on/ramps. We are dealing with rules/laws written for tradfi. They really don't apply to crypto. The US has yet to provide regulatory clarity and many of us simply report based on the current voluntary tax system. Regardless, you can buy and sell crypto in defi and almost no one would know. You can still do P2P.

>blockchain explorers
Everything this is on an open ledger with the exception of a few privacy coins and anonymizers like Tornado Cash. However, that sort of tracking is only really done in the IC. They won't devote much in the way of resources unless they are tracking something serious related to national security. Like the IRS, they don't have many people who know how to do this. Then, you would have to have enough evidence to bring a case. Pretty much prove that the subject of the investigation was the person moving the funds. It is extremely difficult to impossible to prove a single person owns a particular wallet, all the more so if you move multiple tokens around to multiple wallets. People in crypto love games.

[Anonymous No.53280331]

>>53280075
I forgot to mention, it's simply too easy to say you lost all of your crypto in a boating accident.

[Anonymous No.53280437]

>>53280049
So first off, If you were truly destitute and unemployed, you most likely didn't have enough income to be be taxable anyway. Unemployment compensation IS taxable (except for 2020 cause the American Rescue Act allowed taxpayers to deduct up to $10,200 of unemployment compensation), but I'd be surprised if any unemployment income you received would be high enough to be taxable. If you received unemployment, do you have a rough idea of how much you were getting per year? Did you have any other income?

The second thing is, by law the IRS can't assess any tax you may owe once it's been more than 3 years SINCE A RETURN WAS DUE. So for example, as of April 15th, 2022, we can't assess tax for 2018 and earlier. And once April 15th passes this year, we can't assess tax for 2019. So basically, if you never received a balance due notice for 2018 or earlier, you're in the clear for those years. And if you don't get a balance due notice for 2019 before April 15th, you'll be in the clear for 2019 too.

One thing to know though is that the 3-year deadline for the IRS to assess tax is also the deadline for when you can claim a refund for a tax year. So you can't claim a refund for 2018 or earlier anymore. And soon you won't be able to claim a refund for 2019.

However, COLLECTING tax is different from ASSESSING tax. If the IRS assesses tax for a particular tax year, by law it can collect any balance owed for that year for up to 10 years. So for example, if right now you get assesed that you owe tax for 2020, the IRS could collect that unpaid balance up until 2031. If by 2031, the balance hasn't been paid or collected in full, we can't collect the remaining balance.

[Anonymous No.53280536]

>>53280437
Wow. Very informative. Thanks for doing this thread anon. My only income for the last 5 years was from friends and family sometimes giving me money. A few hundred here and there, and Biden bucks for being a non filer. But then I made some money during the shitcoin bonanza but I also lost it all and it is so convoluted between eth, bsc, fantom, 1,000 transactions...that was 2021...2022 I didn't touch crypto whatsoever. I never made close to $10,000 all those years so never filed...but anyway yeah, I guess if they look back at my coinbase for 2021 and see I withdrew like $3,000 profit that year, wonder if they will say I owe tax on it? Anything more severe?

[Anonymous No.53280552]

>>53280289
>However, that sort of tracking is only really done in the IC. They won't devote much in the way of resources unless they are tracking something serious related to national security.
Thanks for the explanation anon. So I will say that the IRS has propietary blockchain explorers. There are unclassified internal guides on how to use them, and there are also guides on how to use open-source blockchain explorers. So it looks like the IC aren't the only ones using blockchain explorers. Evidently the IRS want to use blockchain explorers to find collection sources.

That being said, you are correct that there aren't much people trained how to use them. And like I said earlier, the IRS will probably go for your conventional assets before they go for your crypto So God knows how long it will be before your average tax examiner knows how to use a blockchain explorer.

[Anonymous No.53280618]

>>53280536
>Wow. Very informative. Thanks for doing this thread anon. My only income for the last 5 years was from friends and family sometimes giving me money. A few hundred here and there, and Biden bucks for being a non filer.
Gifts are taxable, but the amount you said would be nowhere near high enough to be taxable. And it's not like your friends and family were filing 1099s on the gifts they gave you. So for 2020 and earlier, you essentially didn't exist in the eyes of the IRS. I don't think you would even be in the system unless you were being claimed as a dependent by someone.

I don't think it would hurt to look and see if you got issued a 1099 for 2021, but $3,000 in profit doesn't sound like it would be high enough to be taxable. You may even be owed a refund if any amount got withheld for taxes.

[Anonymous No.53280647]

>>53280331
Nope. Data recovery and ink library levels of investigative cooperation guided by certain interests allows the fastest data collection, analysis, and interpretation into real-time strategies being formed alongside the advancing techno-energy race.

You didn't lose shit, and if you ever end up talking to the wrong dudes who know this, you'll be in for a rough time. Especially if anything is discovered within an allowance of active secondary priorities. It's goodbye free world. Besides, the SS deals with actual serious financial crime shit, quote unquote. For obvious reasons. The IRS mostly does what about 100k recent tech employees "do"/did, professionally.

[Anonymous No.53280724]

>>53280552
A lot of people simply run two sets of books. One conventional set based on normal income and capital gains, and the other is defi crypto. It's not too different from people who run a cash business like a bar or laundry mat. Same games.

Again, it is very difficult to prove ownership of a wallet, especially if assets are moved amongst multiple wallets.

Additionally, how is a CEX (or the IRS) going to even calculate tax liability? For example, you buy $1000 in crypto on a CEX and move it to a defi address. The price doubles and you now now have $2000 in crypto. You move $1000 of crypto back to the CEX (or another CEX) and settle for fiat. The CEX only sees $1000 bought on the ledger, and $1000 sold. No taxable gains.

[Anonymous No.53280780]

>>53280647
Your talking out your ass. First, you have to prove I own crypto. Then you have to prove where it is, in which wallets. How would anyone prove I didn't lose my seed phrase in a hack. I thought Dropbox was secure. I even used my mother's birthday as the password!

[Anonymous No.53280933]

>>53280724
>Additionally, how is a CEX (or the IRS) going to even calculate tax liability?
All I know in terms of how it is calculated is that right now, you report the fair market value of crypto gains or losses on a Schedule D and form 8949 like you would for conventional assets like stocks or bonds. You can use the Capital Gains & Qualified Dividends worksheet I think. If for some weird reason, you had an employer paying you exclusively in crypto, your employer would report the dollar amount of the crypto on a W-2.

Even though the IRS now has you check a box on your 1040 to report whether or not you're trading crypto, there's no plans to create a new form or tax calculation method solely for crypto. And if there were such plans, I don't think it's something they'd keep hidden from the rank and file because they generally keep us informed on upcoming tax changes so that we don't make mistakes when processing returns for the coming tax year.

[Anonymous No.53280994]

>>53280724
What if all you ever sell on a cex is stable coins?

[Anonymous No.53280998]

>>53280724
>Additionally, how is a CEX (or the IRS) going to even calculate tax liability?
i always assumed a CEX would tell the gov the wallet address you deposited to.

[Anonymous No.53281045]

>>53280933
This is good new. So beyond using a voluntary 50 year old capital gains calculation, the IRS has no way, and interest in pursuing other crypto gains.

[Anonymous No.53281080]

>>53280994
Correct. You sold a dollar asset for a dollar. No capital gains, however, you might run into an issue of structuring. Check how your CEX handles deposits. Naturally, I this case you only would need to report the amount moved to the CEX. Which might be useful if you were trying to show income for a loan.

[Anonymous No.53281082]

>>53277422
Hehe NO!

[Anonymous No.53281116]

>>53281045
>This is good new. So beyond using a voluntary 50 year old capital gains calculation, the IRS has no way, and interest in pursuing other crypto gains.
They have interest in pursuing other crypto gains. But you are correct that they won't have the means to do so anytime soon. And hiring and training people in crypto isn't the priority right now. The priority is hiring people to work the phone lines. And most of the money going towards IT is probably going to be dedicated to replacing the Individual Master File which literally dates from the 1960s

[Anonymous No.53281124]

>>53280780
>prove I own crypto
behavioral patterns
>prove where it is
you'll tell me eventually
>in which wallets
talking out whose ass?
>how would anyone prove
prove prove prove with you
>Dropbox
sounds irrelevant
>I even blahblahblah
got it. you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.53281200]

>>53280618
awesome man thanks again, I'm way less intimidated about the coming months now.

[Anonymous No.53281229]

>>53281124
>You'll tell me eventually
Lol. Lmao even. Ask me how I know you don't know what you are talking about. Are you familiar with the right of accused persons? Charge me with a crime and talk to my lawyer. Or fuck right off.

[Anonymous No.53281232]

>>53277422
Yea sorry. You faggots aren’t getting a fucking nickel outta me

[Anonymous No.53281238]

>>53281124
>We used behavioral partner analysis to determine your client is guilty
Just stop. You watch too much TV.

[Anonymous No.53281306]

>>53281200
Not a problem anon, glad I was able to put you at ease. It's also worth knowing that having zero or nearly zero taxable income isn't an automatic red flag. Plenty of people file returns with zero taxable income to get a refund or claim a credit.

[Anonymous No.53281318]

>>53277422
I haven't paid taxes for two years and I think you can suck my fucking dick you sellout.

[Anonymous No.53281338]

>>53281318
What do I give a fuck faggot? That just means less work for me.

[Anonymous No.53281358]

Oh fuck I forgot I have to file soon.

[Anonymous No.53281392]

>>53281358
File an extension. It's easy. I do it every year and don't file my return until October.

If you think you'll OWE tax then you'll have to make a payment when you file the extension. But you just need a rough number.

[Anonymous No.53281619]

>>53278588
KuCoin doesn’t report.

[Anonymous No.53281640]

>>53281619
Shh. Don't tell em.

[Anonymous No.53281747]

>>53281619
>>53281640
I just googled it and one of the first results said it's not licensed in the US. So of course they don't report to the IRS. They have no legal obligation to.

[Anonymous No.53281771]

>>53281747
So, serious question, do you owe US taxes on money made on an overseas investment?

[Anonymous No.53281872]

>>53281771
If you're asking about yourself, I'd consult a CPA, not an anonymous guy on a Mongolian basket weaving board. Anything involving international tax issues is usually a considered an "out-of-scope" tax law question that your average IRS employee isn't qualified to answer. If you called the IRS to ask this question, you'd probably be told to read a publication on irs.gov, to consult a CPA, or you'd be transferred to the "Advanced Tax Law" line.

All that being said, generally speaking, all worldwide income earned by US citizens is taxable. You can claim the foreign tax credit in some instances so you don't get double-taxed. And the US has tax treaties with countries so that people doing business or living in each country get tax benefits. But to reiterate, you really should consult a CPA on anything related to foreign income and whether or not it's taxable.

[Anonymous No.53281885]

I strongly distrust government officials and employees.

[Anonymous No.53283522]

>>53275003
Because IT'S HAPPENING NOT A DRILL

[Anonymous No.53283550]

>>53283522
>article headline: abolish IRS
>news headline: defund IRS
>news subtitle: block hiring of new agents
wtf I love neocons now

[Anonymous No.53283596]

>>53278104
>bitcoin investor
>first time ever filing taxes
>parents give 30k a year allowance
unironically kill yourself

[Anonymous No.53283624]

>>53281229
>>53281238

[Anonymous No.53283671]

>>53281885
>>53274956
>>53274987

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iwzGsU2bAg