Let me get this straight

[Anonymous No.53162032]

>inflation is at 10%
>capital gains tax is 10%
>have 100k
>invest in index linked fund
>in 1 year it goes up by 10% as expected
>have 110k (10k profit) nice
>pay 10% tax (1k)
>109k
>inflation reduces buying power of my 109k by 10%
>i effectively have 98.1k

what? i must have made a mistake because this can't be real

[Anonymous No.53162075]

>>53162032
I'm getting very sleepy is anyone else getting sleepy?

[Anonymous No.53162084]

>>53162032
are you retarded?
if you didn't do anything, by your calculations, you'd have 90k

[Anonymous No.53162103]

It's real. And wait, it gets better too. You, tax cattle that you are, pay interest on the newly printed money to a private entity since every newly printed note is backed by state debt to the fed.

So not only was your savings raped but you were forcefully made to pay for the privelege. Thanks for playing.

[Anonymous No.53162105]

the irony is that 10% inflation was caused by people that pumped the fund. so they print money, pump the fund and tax me for it?

im new to all this can someone explain this to me

[Anonymous No.53162115]

>>53162103
WHAT? so i am understanding this correctly!?

[Anonymous No.53162139]

inflation doesnt matter because it effects everyone

if you didnt invest you'd have even less

[Anonymous No.53162160]

>>53162105
Yes number got bigger due to inflation. The government goes "Look you made gains! Tax time!" even though the real value is about the same due to the inflation. And then you pay government interest rates to the fed too. It is banditry pure and simple.

[Anonymous No.53162191]

>>53162032
Wrong on all points.

[Anonymous No.53162192]

>>53162115
Babbies first fiat currency

[Anonymous No.53162195]

>>53162032
Should've invested in LINK. You'd have 20K and no gains to report, freeing you from tax servitude.

[Anonymous No.53162228]

>>53162191
explain why or show nose i guess

[Anonymous No.53162337]

>>53162228
You don't automatically get a 10% return on an index fund, for one. You're more likely to lose 10%.

[Anonymous No.53162355]

>>53162032
>pay 10% tax (1k)
Only if you sell, you absolute retard.

[Anonymous No.53162413]

>>53162032
Why would it not be real ?
The system is rigged.

The two hammers of the economic system - inflation and deflation.
>Inflation fucks your cash and investments. You panic and put your cash into things.
>Deflation comes and fucks the value of things.
End stage capitalism. You know how morons say *just borrow bro, inflation is good, because your debt is less*. Too much of both as is now, gets you absurd living conditions.

[Anonymous No.53162449]

>>53162032
correct, except your index fund is actually down 20% rather than up 10%

[Anonymous No.53162944]

>>53162413
Inflation would be good if the average wages were rising in at least the same proportion, but of course we can't have that.

[Anonymous No.53163191]

>>53162337
i was trying to use a simple example. but i think perhaps "index linked bond" or guilt is more appropriate. but in my defence, the term "index linked" and the way i described the instrument ("goes up by 10% as expected") shouldve clued you in to what i was trying to describe.

so simply saying "wrong" and then proceeding to ignore my points about the simple math i applied to this scenario tells me you are just as ignorant as i am. so please don't bother replying next time.

>>53162355
stupid arguement and unnecessary slur

>>53162413
so the best i can expect is to lose the bear minimum? a simple portfolio of bonds, guilts and ETFs are just a complete scam? how do retirement funds work in this case?

[Anonymous No.53163453]

>>53163191
>i think perhaps "index linked bond" or guilt is more appropriate
Nothing is guaranteed to go up by 10%. You were dead wrong. Also, inflation isn't 10% and taxes aren't paid until the instrument is sold. So you are wrong across the board.

[Anonymous No.53163785]

>>53162032
Do you guys not have Tax Free Savings Accounts? I can invest $6500 per year and any gains I make in the stock market are tax free.

[Anonymous No.53163802]

>>53163453
hm. i can see you are struggling to break away from this rigid outlook. i got my answer from some other anons.

[Anonymous No.53163902]

>>53163802
The answer is that you were wrong about everything.

[Anonymous No.53164054]

>>53162115

Almost. You missed the part where you only get to deduct $3,000 per year if you have net losses. So, when your portfolio shits the bed for 30% in a crash year and you lose 30k you don't immediately collect 10% ($3,000) in value. You get to collect an effective $300. Then $270, then $243, the $218.70, and so on and so on for 10 years.

If you're investing big boy money you may take losses that exceed what you'll be able to claim deduction for before you die.

[Anonymous No.53164145]

>>53162075
What's wrong with your eye?
Yes op, this is correct but the idea is to hold for years, not cash out every year. Nonetheless, the closer you look at Bitcoin, compared to our current system, it makes sense to store capital in Bitcoin rather than a bond in the long-term due to it's deflationary nature. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.53164201]

>>53163802

The dude you are replying to just has autism. They can't handle hypotheticals and refuse to entertain anything that isn't "real" (relatable to their personal experience and biases). If you pose a scenario as a hypothetical story their brain gets stuck on "but that didn't really happen" and refuse to consider further. Tragic, really.

Some of them can handle it if you boil it down to pure arithmetic, but some of them are also shit at math.

You're otherwise on the right track. In general, and not just here, the tax code fucks the individual when they win, and gives them little to no benefit when they lose. Didn't used to be this way; used to be able to deduct all interest (even credit cards) and claim or carry all losses whenever you wanted to. People (and households) were treated more like businesses for tax purposes.

>>53163785

Those are retirement accounts. Locked away and restricted until a deep retirement age. (Assuming they don't retroactively change the deal because fuck you, that's why. Obama was entertaining the idea for large account balances).

You can have your investments once the country has extracted what labor it can from you. Not being hyperbolic, they don't necessarily want you to be poor, they just want to ensure that you keep working.

[Anonymous No.53164251]

>>53164145
>the idea is to hold for years
Doesn't invalidate OPs point. Even if you hold, all else equal, you're real buying power stays the same or loses. You cash out eventually.

[Anonymous No.53164273]

>>53164201
I'm a leaf, our TFSA can be withdrawn from at any time and still be tax free.

[Anonymous No.53164286]

>>53164201
What's the difference if op literally kept the percentages accurate, such as 6% inflation and 7% growth? It doesn't invalidate OPs point. You're being nasty for no reason

[Anonymous No.53164364]

>>53162032
the point is to punish people that save money lol
don’t be thankful for it, but be glad that you don’t live in the UK or Japan. we’d have even higher inflation if we didn’t pawn it off on them

[Anonymous No.53164373]

>>53162032
No that’s real. Better than sitting on $100k cash and it being work $90k in a year

[Anonymous No.53164402]

because of interest, a debtor must obtain more money than they borrowed to pay down their loan. since money is created by debt, implicitly more money must be created to pay down the original money creation event. a rational person would call this a ponzi scheme

[Anonymous No.53164416]

>>53164273

Fortunate. Cherish it and max it while you've got it. All governments seem to be clamping down on shit.

Envious of your tax treatment for gambling winnings too. I'd retire early if the tax favored accounts allowed it, and would gamble a bit more when the progressive reaches +EV if taxes didn't fuck me.

>>53164286

Same reason people champion the metric system. Base ten, my dude. It makes the arithmetic easier, and therefore opens up more mental resources for comprehending the base concepts and mechanics they're trying to communicate.

I'm not being nasty for no reason. I'm diagnosed myself and have spent a long time understanding the condition. The root of the word autism is "auto", meaning self. High preference for my own bullshit, little tolerance for other people's bullshit. Same reason why Trekkies can have endless debates over Kirk vs Picard, even if they appreciate the universe and both series. It wouldn't offend you if you did not feel like it described you.

If I don't make it personal you'll write it off as a fault of others. Nah dawg, it's you. I've gotta make it personal and do a little tailoring for you to get anything out of it. I wrote that post about you, for you. Hopefully you can see it that way, I know my life improved when I started thinking that way.

[Anonymous No.53164434]

>>53162032
Welcome to 2023 champ

[Anonymous No.53164462]

>>53162195
Are you retarded? Legit question. If OP invested in illegal drugs instead he could go 50%+ the profit, after paying protection fees, and pay no taxes.

[Anonymous No.53164487]

the easiest way to understand inflation is to listen to old silent generation people when they complain that a candy bar used to be a nickel

[Anonymous No.53164490]

>>53164054
I don't quite get this. Why $300? It's $3000 you can deduct from your taxes at the end of the year. And if you end up with gains at some point in the future, you can deduct the losses from the taxes on your gains.

[Anonymous No.53164548]

>>53164490

$300 is 10% of $3,000. Which is the tax savings on $3,000 deducted at a 10% capital gains rate.

Next year he deducts another $3,000 @ 10%, but inflation has made this only worth $270. Next year, another 10% for inflation makes the benefit $243 in nominal dollars. He took present day losses, but gets paid out the benefit in rapidly decaying fiat without even having the chance to reinvest it up front.

>you can deduct the losses from the taxes on your gains.

[Anonymous No.53164561]

>>53162032
SPOT fixes this unironically.

You don't have to take dumb investments to protect your purchasing power.

[Anonymous No.53164582]

>>53164548

Missed the last line. Carry forward losses are limited to $3,000 per year in the US.

[Anonymous No.53164905]

>>53164286
i dont think he was having a pop at me at all.
if growth outstrips inflation then i would surely see a profit. if inflation is at 10% and i 10x my shitcoin folio then i would see a profit, even after tax.

what im trying to get to grips with is how the fucking fuck can anything "indexed linked" (if i understand this to mean "at bear minimum track inflation") make anyone a profit, ever!?

>>53164548
wait what! so even losses are "taxed" by inflation?

[Anonymous No.53164964]

>>53162032
Inflation is bad. More news at elven.

[Anonymous No.53165031]

>>53164905

>So even losses are "taxed" by inflation?

If they're big enough, then yeah. You take losses in 2023 dollars, but if you go over the limit you end up taking your deduction benefit in 2024, 2025, 2026 etc. dollars. Can only get benefit for $3,000 per year. (Unless they change things, which to be fair they might, but have no incentive to).

[Anonymous No.53165161]

>>53164905
>>53165031

Also, if you die before you can claim the deduction on all these losses they're just fucking gone. Nobody gets to benefit, not even the inflation eroded amounts.

[Anonymous No.53165181]

>>53164561
i just checked out their website and video. i have no idea what they are on about and this has a mcap of 200k. i would be interested to see what would happen to it in a large scale crash like covid.

i will keep an eye on it though. would be nice if it worked, but i get serious LUNA vibes.

[Anonymous No.53165251]

>>53165181
LUNA was an under collateralized pegged shitcoin.

SPOT is 100% collateralized with a large safety margin and not pegged. Read the WP to understand why this will work in any market condition.

Still needs to go through Lindy effect and grow in liquidity for sure but this is probably the most novel innovation to money since Bitcoin.

Having a decentralized inflation resistant store of value is the holy grail asset right now. Where to OPs point it's a lose-lose-lose in every market with inflation high in conjunction to asset value obliteration.

[Anonymous No.53165261]

>>53162032
you didnt make the mistake, the central bank and governments did

[Anonymous No.53165290]

>>53165261

>Implying it isn't on purpose

[Anonymous No.53165333]

>>53162944
no it wouldn't because all the money you would've saved up until now woul be worth less and less, no inflation is good, not even the meme 2%, because it doesn't allow you to save up money, it forces you to gamble on the stock market/crypto/whatever to just try to preserve your purchasing power which is the biggest scam on earth, they know that 99% of people will lose trying to at least match inflation, but having steady inflation would be too predictable that's why (((they))) will mix things up, they will create periods with inflation at 2% then 10% and when everyone and their mother thinks he's an investing genius by jumping on the crypto/stock market pump (((they))) nuke it all with interest rates to shake people out, then they turn the printers on again basicly pulling the strings up and down to shake as much money out of ordinary people as possible
it's called a (((healthy economy)

[Anonymous No.53165831]

>>53165251
SPOT, if ever it gains significant adoption will be outlawed in some manner because the US government wants people to bear currency devaluation. It's a very good idea though.

[Anonymous No.53165913]

>>53165831
IDK people said the same thing about Bitcoin, I think the government is too slow to follow developments. By the time it is big enough for them to aim their sights on it'll already have reached enough adoption to be untenable.

[Anonymous No.53166027]

>>53162032
lol your investment gains went directly into jewish hands and your losses would have also gone into jewish hands try not using money with a fucking star of david on it next time retard

[Anonymous No.53166033]

>>53165913
they will create an etf out of anything that threatens their currency, and suppress the price selling paper IOUs with no backing
just like they tamed gold so that it cannot work as an inflation hedge

[Anonymous No.53166316]

>>53162032
Why can't it be real?

Your nominal return net of taxes is lower than inflation, so obviously the real return would be negative.

[Anonymous No.53166390]

>>53164905
It's not meant to make you a profit, it's to stop you from turning poor. This is why the old advice "never sell" comes from because you will always have market value roughly equal to the state of the economy.

[Anonymous No.53166407]

WTF is up with the SPOT shills?

[Anonymous No.53166447]

>>53162032
This only happens if you sell after the first year

[Anonymous No.53166483]

>>53166407

>Thread about inflation
> inflation resistant store of value mentioned
> pajeet shill

[Anonymous No.53166534]

>>53162032
don't get confused between the 'theories of finance' playing out beyond their mathematically positioned purposes which have lengths of time until their projected final goals, or yield.
the strategies at play keeping first world economies afloat is the promise that second and developing world countries will invest in our infrastructure plans so well that in +5/10/12/13/14/15/20/30/60.... years their returns will be enough to play ball with us - but only once the money in everyone's wallets shifts to the corresponding and well-deserved place which will never happen because that's what it means to just be a millionaire, and most millionaires make more than 10 figures of it, too fast to be bothered with.

then there's the power of the billionaire. he can make shit like covid and damar covid vax deaths happen without the news even covering it.

[Anonymous No.53166606]

>>53165251
what is spot? terrible name you cant google "spot crypto" and find anything because its a commonly used word

[Anonymous No.53166702]

>>53166606
banana?

[Anonymous No.53167389]

>>53162032
read the merchant bankers to understand better.

[Anonymous No.53167925]

>>53162032
Cool it with the antisemitic remarks.

[Anonymous No.53168577]

>>53162032
Let me make it easier for you (and for the autists that are furious about hypotheticals).

>Let i = inflation
>Let t = tax
> Let g = gains
You will be in a losing position unless
> g > i + t

[Anonymous No.53168830]

>>53162032
you have it right, but if you didnt invest you'd only effectively have 90k.